West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: MoodMuzik on August 14, 2009, 08:30:22 PM
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This whole joe vs wu situation had me thinking about how people are mad at joe just because hes saying shit about legends (did we forget about freedom of speech) and how us fans are not allowing rappers from this era to become legends (couple of them could be called legends) I respect some of the legends trust me, but just like the word CLASSIC the word LEGEND is thrown around way too much for rappers back in old days ( would like a definition of legend btw so this argument can get more interesting) i feel that some rappers back then are not LEGENDS as some people say...but im not gunna name until someone can give me their definition of legend
were too busy praising the legends when we should be praising the rappers that are making good music too TODAY and give them a CHANCE to get a legendary status
but then when a rapper dies we give them so much praise...its like a rapper has to die to realize how good dude was...but then other rappers die and we wanna PRAISE them so much when they werent even that good...i dont get it
can someone give me an explanation?
haters who wanna come in...one ya self
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i'm telling you people are stuck in the past, it won't change.
but i don't want to give my definition of legend because i agree with what you're saying & i'd rather let somebody who disagrees give the definition.
but i would say an important factor or criteria is a good discography, for sure.
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u put up an undisagreeable question. Agreement is indefinite. And really; it's not the people it's the media and *qwite a few board people online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rOIIBK_srE
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Crooked I, Ill Bill, MC Juice, Thirstin Howl III, C-Rayz Walz, Goretex/Supercoven = = legends 8)
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Xzibit, i think it's time to lay out some names to really get the argument going lol.
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Xzibit, i think it's time to lay out some names to really get the argument going lol.
yes def xzibit
Royce and Joe
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Xzibit, i think it's time to lay out some names to really get the argument going lol.
yes def xzibit
Royce and Joe
lol, no dick.
i mean tell people who is concidered a legend but shouldn't be lol. :laugh:
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Xzibit, i think it's time to lay out some names to really get the argument going lol.
yes def xzibit
Royce and Joe
lol, no dick.
i mean tell people who is concidered a legend but shouldn't be lol. :laugh:
biggie
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Xzibit, i think it's time to lay out some names to really get the argument going lol.
yes def xzibit
Royce and Joe
lol, no dick.
i mean tell people who is concidered a legend but shouldn't be lol. :laugh:
biggie
are you trying to say Biggie's material out was wack (because that's not true lol) or do you mean he doesn't have enough to have the longevity to be considered a "legend"?
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Xzibit, i think it's time to lay out some names to really get the argument going lol.
yes def xzibit
Royce and Joe
lol, no dick.
i mean tell people who is concidered a legend but shouldn't be lol. :laugh:
biggie
are you trying to say Biggie's material out was wack (because that's not true lol) or do you mean he doesn't have enough to have the longevity to be considered a "legend"?
dont think he was here long enough...but again gotta here peoples definition of legend
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Xzibit, i think it's time to lay out some names to really get the argument going lol.
yes def xzibit
Royce and Joe
lol, no dick.
i mean tell people who is concidered a legend but shouldn't be lol. :laugh:
biggie
are you trying to say Biggie's material out was wack (because that's not true lol) or do you mean he doesn't have enough to have the longevity to be considered a "legend"?
dont think he was here long enough...but again gotta here peoples definition of legend
that's borderline, he made quite an impact & was part of the most controversial beef in history lol.
but it will definatly raise some eye-brows & maybe we will get some responses here lol.
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Xzibit, i think it's time to lay out some names to really get the argument going lol.
yes def xzibit
Royce and Joe
lol, no dick.
i mean tell people who is concidered a legend but shouldn't be lol. :laugh:
biggie
are you trying to say Biggie's material out was wack (because that's not true lol) or do you mean he doesn't have enough to have the longevity to be considered a "legend"?
dont think he was here long enough...but again gotta here peoples definition of legend
that's borderline, he made quite an impact & was part of the most controversial beef in history lol.
but it will definatly raise some eye-brows & maybe we will get some responses here lol.
it is questionable i would like to see wat people think though...was it just cuz he was apart of the biggest rap beef?
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Xzibit, i think it's time to lay out some names to really get the argument going lol.
yes def xzibit
Royce and Joe
lol, no dick.
i mean tell people who is concidered a legend but shouldn't be lol. :laugh:
biggie
are you trying to say Biggie's material out was wack (because that's not true lol) or do you mean he doesn't have enough to have the longevity to be considered a "legend"?
dont think he was here long enough...but again gotta here peoples definition of legend
that's borderline, he made quite an impact & was part of the most controversial beef in history lol.
but it will definatly raise some eye-brows & maybe we will get some responses here lol.
it is questionable i would like to see wat people think though...was it just cuz he was apart of the biggest rap beef?
not going to front, the beef with Pac without a doubt raised his level of stardom.
without it, be probably wouldn't have died & people would call him a legend; but i don't know where he would of went from their.
it's hard to assume something like that.
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oh, i don't care, i don't care.
in the darkened underpass i thought oh god my chance has come at last
and then a strange fear gripped me and i just couldn't ask
take me out tonight where there is music and people, young and alive
oh, driving in your car i don't want to go home because i don't have one anymore
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Big is definetly a legend. No matter the circumstances, his influence on today's biggest rappers is undeniable. He wasn't some average rapper who died and suddenly became a legend and anyone who thinks that is either plain ignorant or has been sucking way too much West Coast dick. Big was part of the equation long before Pac went public with the feud. Sure, death might have elevated the conversation a bit more but the same can be said about Pac.
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Big is definetly a legend. No matter the circumstances, his influence on today's biggest rappers is undeniable. He wasn't some average rapper who died and suddenly became a legend and anyone who thinks that is either plain ignorant or has been sucking way too much West Coast dick. Big was part of the equation long before Pac went public with the feud. Sure, death might have elevated the conversation a bit more but the same can be said about Pac.
Very true. Even after his first album BIG was considered a legend.
But it is also true that a LOT of people need to lighten up when it comes to rap music.
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Since we are on the topic, you think it's right to call someone "a legend" just because of one great album? I mean, aint that supposed to be a hasbeen if we look at it objectively? You make one great album and then every album after that is average...how is that legendary. There must be like 50 million artists that can make 1 great album but how many of these "legends" you call them actually did more than that?
Then some people get called legends just because they were here over 10 years ago...you think The Game is thought as a legend in 12 years? :laugh:
Fuck this legend shit, it sounds anyways like you are talking about a fucking fossile who can't keep it up anymore so you got to call him something more decent than a fall off.
"Time makes memories golden", wouldn't you say something like that?
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legend (FAME)
noun [C]
someone or something very famous and admired, usually because of their ability in a particular area:
Jazz legend, Ella Fitzgerald, once sang in this bar.
legendary
adjective
very famous and admired or spoken about:
He became editor of the legendary Irish journal 'The Bell'.
The British are legendary (= well known) for their incompetence with languages.
Source : dictionary.cambridge.org/
Biggie died in '97 and still today he's one of the most spoken rappers.
Speaking of these new comers. Saigon and Papoose both were huge on internet in 2001-2005, just like Joe Budden is now, but today barely no one speaks of these guys.
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If 50 cent was killed right after get rich or die trying he would considered a legend right there with big and pac.
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i'm telling you people are stuck in the past, it won't change.
What's wrong with that? It's music us older lot grew up on.
I'll throw a name out there................Eminem.
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If 50 cent was killed right after get rich or die trying he would considered a legend right there with big and pac.
100 percent agree
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how about eazy e and big pun?
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how about eazy e and big pun?
Just for being in NWA eazy is legend.
And his solo career would be irrelevant without boyz-in-da-hood to me, which was written by ice cube anyway
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how about bone thugs n harmony,I mean they made a name for themselves after Eazy E died.........and they had one hell of one with Eazy
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Big L?
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yeah big l,cham,i know no one likes the ho limit souljahs but yall gotta give it to them they stuck in there,soljah boy,dr.dre now there is a legend................
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If 50 cent was killed right after get rich or die trying he would considered a legend right there with big and pac.
100 percent agree
i'm telling you people are stuck in the past, it won't change.
What's wrong with that? It's music us older lot grew up on.
I'll throw a name out there................Eminem.
yeah, but i am willing to listen to new rap; nothing wrong with listening to throwbacks, i do it all the time.
but i don't shit on new guys & go against them because it's against legends; take the Budden/Wu situation, in some ways Joe Budden is completely right & Rae is a bitch for having a 300 pound bodygaurd sucker punch Joe in the face (no groupie, it's fact); but who is Joey going against? THE ALMIGHTY WU-TANG, so Jumpoff has to be wrong, God forbid he could possibly be right in that situation lol.
people will 100% of the time side with a legend, simply because he's got like senoirty over others, shit is lame.
Since we are on the topic, you think it's right to call someone "a legend" just because of one great album? I mean, aint that supposed to be a hasbeen if we look at it objectively? You make one great album and then every album after that is average...how is that legendary. There must be like 50 million artists that can make 1 great album but how many of these "legends" you call them actually did more than that?
Then some people get called legends just because they were here over 10 years ago...you think The Game is thought as a legend in 12 years? :laugh:
Fuck this legend shit, it sounds anyways like you are talking about a fucking fossile who can't keep it up anymore so you got to call him something more decent than a fall off.
"Time makes memories golden", wouldn't you say something like that?
agreed 100%; 50 Cent (Get Rich or Die Tryin'), Chamillionaire (Ultimate Victory), Kanye West (College Dropout), Lupe (F&L or The Cool), The Game (The Documentary); those are just a few names that are "legends" i suppose because they have made at least one great album lol.
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Since we are on the topic, you think it's right to call someone "a legend" just because of one great album? I mean, aint that supposed to be a hasbeen if we look at it objectively? You make one great album and then every album after that is average...how is that legendary. There must be like 50 million artists that can make 1 great album but how many of these "legends" you call them actually did more than that?
50 million artists? I don't think so. There might be a whole shit load who've done great albums but very few have dropped all-around "classics". I don't think it's about how many albums or songs you make but how infliuential the material is.
The thing about the ten-year theory is two-fold. People tend to hail anything that was remotely good from the 90's or early 2000 as being "classic". It can get annoying. Though I do think there needs to be some distance from the material to truly judge it. An artist with one classic album can be a legend if the material is that good but there needs to be a distinction between classics albums (Doggystyle, No One Can Do It Better) and best-selling albums with a few hit records on them.
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^but people today can't set trends, unless it's what's next in hip hop.
an album like Slaughterhouse, a great pure rap album cannot set a trend because it doesn't change the game.
more people listen to the radio & that music, which is the only real form of rap that can hold an impact in 2009; because it's the only form that gets exposure.
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yeah, but i am willing to listen to new rap; nothing wrong with listening to throwbacks, i do it all the time.
but i don't shit on new guys & go against them because it's against legends; take the Budden/Wu situation, in some ways Joe Budden is completely right & Rae is a bitch for having a 300 pound bodygaurd sucker punch Joe in the face (no groupie, it's fact); but who is Joey going against? THE ALMIGHTY WU-TANG, so Jumpoff has to be wrong, God forbid he could possibly be right in that situation lol.
people will 100% of the time side with a legend, simply because he's got like senoirty over others, shit is lame.
Not always. I thought Budden had some valid points. I didn't neccesarily side with him over Meth but I liked the idea of making it more about "competing on wax" than about creating an actual beef. I think hip-hop needs to be more about the "show and prove" approach than all that "let's take it to the streets" bullshit. And it seemed like Joe was going for something more than just "let's trade diss records" back and forth. The trading punchlines who tends to establish who the better battle rapper is but to make it more about who can make better records is interesting. Music is fucking stale right now, particularly hip-hop, and we need artists willing to take a more fresh approach.
Another example is Snoop versus Crooked I. I love both these guys as artists but I thought some of the comments Snoop made about Crook were real unneccessary and seemed counterproductive to the movement he claimed to be pushing for. I think Crooked I handled it in the right way.
But that being said, in most cases, people do side with the legends and it's for many reasons. The first is so many young up and coming artists just throw rocks at established guys to get their name out. Another thing is fans tend to side with the artist they are familiar with. If you have this one guy whose made maybe two hot songs feuding with the guy who has a whole catalog of some of your favorite songs, you're probably gonna relate more with the dude whose music you feel more connected to. It all really depends on the situation but I don't really like hearing all these newer West guys bitch about what they are entitled to like "Why won't Snoop work with me or why won't Dre give me a beat?".
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^but people today can't set trends, unless it's what's next in hip hop.
an album like Slaughterhouse, a great pure rap album cannot set a trend because it doesn't change the game.
more people listen to the radio & that music, which is the only real form of rap that can hold an impact in 2009; because it's the only form that gets exposure.
But I think in the long run, Slaughterhouse will end up getting their due because they are doing something that is neccesary in hip-hop. It might not make them into mainstream icons but it is giving the genre some stability and bringing some much needed diversity back. I think that's what is wrong with hip-hop now when compared to the 90's and I've been saying it for awhile. If you look at 1994 or 1999, there was something for everybody. The West had their own sound. The South was doing their thing. In The East, you had Biggie, Nas, and Wu-Tang, who were all kind of different artists. In 99, there was DMX doing the angry shit. Cash Money and No Limit had their little movement. You had Dre and Snoop coming together but even in what they were doing, you had a lot of diversity. Snoop was pushing Eastsidaz while Dre was working with Eminem. Talk about different styles. Today, it's every rapper has the same fucking people on their records. T-Pain got a hit so put him on the hook. Get Lil Wayne. Maybe T.I. or Ludacris. If you need somebody from the West, get Snoop or Game. If you need a lyricist, get Jadakiss or Nas. Maybe throw in Jamie Foxx or Mary J. and try to do an R&B crossover. The names and faces may change every two or three years but the methods for making albums stay the same. Get your dance song, fuck song, nostalgic throwback song, cut and paste collabo song with two or three other rappers, funny skit with a comedian, wash, rinse, repeat.
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^but people today can't set trends, unless it's what's next in hip hop.
an album like Slaughterhouse, a great pure rap album cannot set a trend because it doesn't change the game.
more people listen to the radio & that music, which is the only real form of rap that can hold an impact in 2009; because it's the only form that gets exposure.
But I think in the long run, Slaughterhouse will end up getting their due because they are doing something that is neccesary in hip-hop. It might not make them into mainstream icons but it is giving the genre some stability and bringing some much needed diversity back. I think that's what is wrong with hip-hop now when compared to the 90's and I've been saying it for awhile. If you look at 1994 or 1999, there was something for everybody. The West had their own sound. The South was doing their thing. In The East, you had Biggie, Nas, and Wu-Tang, who were all kind of different artists. In 99, there was DMX doing the angry shit. Cash Money and No Limit had their little movement. You had Dre and Snoop coming together but even in what they were doing, you had a lot of diversity. Snoop was pushing Eastsidaz while Dre was working with Eminem. Talk about different styles. Today, it's every rapper has the same fucking people on their records. T-Pain got a hit so put him on the hook. Get Lil Wayne. Maybe T.I. or Ludacris. If you need somebody from the West, get Snoop or Game. If you need a lyricist, get Jadakiss or Nas. Maybe throw in Jamie Foxx or Mary J. and try to do an R&B crossover. The names and faces may change every two or three years but the methods for making albums stay the same. Get your dance song, fuck song, nostalgic throwback song, cut and paste collabo song with two or three other rappers, funny skit with a comedian, wash, rinse, repeat.
i agree with basically everything you're saying, but i don't know about Slaughterhouse lol.
i think in the eye of the public of the real rap fans will give them their respect when they decide to hang it up.
but at the moment they aren't mainstream, but they aren't underground; but they're great & that's all that matters.
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^but people today can't set trends, unless it's what's next in hip hop.
an album like Slaughterhouse, a great pure rap album cannot set a trend because it doesn't change the game.
more people listen to the radio & that music, which is the only real form of rap that can hold an impact in 2009; because it's the only form that gets exposure.
But I think in the long run, Slaughterhouse will end up getting their due because they are doing something that is neccesary in hip-hop. It might not make them into mainstream icons but it is giving the genre some stability and bringing some much needed diversity back. I think that's what is wrong with hip-hop now when compared to the 90's and I've been saying it for awhile. If you look at 1994 or 1999, there was something for everybody. The West had their own sound. The South was doing their thing. In The East, you had Biggie, Nas, and Wu-Tang, who were all kind of different artists. In 99, there was DMX doing the angry shit. Cash Money and No Limit had their little movement. You had Dre and Snoop coming together but even in what they were doing, you had a lot of diversity. Snoop was pushing Eastsidaz while Dre was working with Eminem. Talk about different styles. Today, it's every rapper has the same fucking people on their records. T-Pain got a hit so put him on the hook. Get Lil Wayne. Maybe T.I. or Ludacris. If you need somebody from the West, get Snoop or Game. If you need a lyricist, get Jadakiss or Nas. Maybe throw in Jamie Foxx or Mary J. and try to do an R&B crossover. The names and faces may change every two or three years but the methods for making albums stay the same. Get your dance song, fuck song, nostalgic throwback song, cut and paste collabo song with two or three other rappers, funny skit with a comedian, wash, rinse, repeat.
+1 Quote of the century!
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i agree with basically everything you're saying, but i don't know about Slaughterhouse lol.
i think in the eye of the public of the real rap fans will give them their respect when they decide to hang it up.
but at the moment they aren't mainstream, but they aren't underground; but they're great & that's all that matters.
But you could make that argument for DJ Quik circa 1994-99. His stuff wasn't #1 MTV hit singles but there was recognition and the music was incredible. There are only so many spots for people to be on the Eminem-Jay-Z level but not everyone has to be that. I've been waiting on a Crooked I album. I've been waiting on Saigon's shit. Been waiting on Jayo Felony. You got all these artists whose material just takes forever to get out there because the labels only want this or that kind of music. And it's the fans as well in some cases. There should be music for every damn body.
I'd much rather see rappers work on smaller budgets and create more personal music than waste all this label money to create a disjointed trend-following album with a whole bunch of chemistry-free collabos that ends up performing poorly and forces the label to wait another 9 years before signing off another album. Movies cost way more fucking money to make than music and there is nowhere near the problems in that industry. Granted, they don't have nearly the amount of problems with illegal downloading but still....
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^but people today can't set trends, unless it's what's next in hip hop.
an album like Slaughterhouse, a great pure rap album cannot set a trend because it doesn't change the game.
more people listen to the radio & that music, which is the only real form of rap that can hold an impact in 2009; because it's the only form that gets exposure.
But I think in the long run, Slaughterhouse will end up getting their due because they are doing something that is neccesary in hip-hop. It might not make them into mainstream icons but it is giving the genre some stability and bringing some much needed diversity back. I think that's what is wrong with hip-hop now when compared to the 90's and I've been saying it for awhile. If you look at 1994 or 1999, there was something for everybody. The West had their own sound. The South was doing their thing. In The East, you had Biggie, Nas, and Wu-Tang, who were all kind of different artists. In 99, there was DMX doing the angry shit. Cash Money and No Limit had their little movement. You had Dre and Snoop coming together but even in what they were doing, you had a lot of diversity. Snoop was pushing Eastsidaz while Dre was working with Eminem. Talk about different styles. Today, it's every rapper has the same fucking people on their records. T-Pain got a hit so put him on the hook. Get Lil Wayne. Maybe T.I. or Ludacris. If you need somebody from the West, get Snoop or Game. If you need a lyricist, get Jadakiss or Nas. Maybe throw in Jamie Foxx or Mary J. and try to do an R&B crossover. The names and faces may change every two or three years but the methods for making albums stay the same. Get your dance song, fuck song, nostalgic throwback song, cut and paste collabo song with two or three other rappers, funny skit with a comedian, wash, rinse, repeat.
U spot on with all that fam. Hip hop used to be about taking risks and setting trends. Now the norm seems to be play it safe and make music that artists and labels THINK the people want to hear or what is hot. Only to flop and be called sellouts in the long run.