West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: Big BpG on April 09, 2001, 01:33:48 AM
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These two albums mark a point in music history that has not been matched in Hip Hop since their debuts ... why though? There have been albums out since then that have matched just as much glory, but truthfully an honestly, even the "so called" king of rap, 2pac, could have never come close to what these albums represent and this how I feel about it:
Back in 92 I would say the America was going through some tough times with street violence, racism, freedom, and prejudice. There was no doubt that trouble loomed throughout. Most of us now are in our late teens, but we all remember the classes where the local officer would came in and talked about the importance of gangs ... It was an issue back then that scared americas streets. L.A. was a big issue, probably the biggest, but besides all the turmoil surrounding the issues I believe that if these two albums had come out at a different time, it would have been different. Here we have Dr. Dre, great producer, but young man from Comptom, who grew up in the hood, lived life hard, and was able to get out. Then we have Snoop... tough crip, drug dealer, 22 plater nickel owner, and one tough ass teen. These two guys busted out of their shells and came out with some dope ass music, but personally to me, when I think about those albums, I think about "Rodney King" , I think about marches in the streets, riots over powers, I think about Public Enemy ... It was the voices of our U.S. government, and the voices of the people who lived the life. When the albums came out, no one had heard music like that, people loved or hated it. We were forced to put stickers on our CD's so children would know to stay away from them, government just tried to shut the music down, but they couldn't and thats because the music was so real!!! Since this point, I have not heard music so real, so fresh, so on point, rap has been corrupted, by sexy women, wrists full of glitter, background dancers, money, cars, and popularity. When Juvenile came out, his music was the same way, but when the money came his away, his music turned to "we got dat fire." Rap doesn't express a meaning anymore, its not used to express, its used for ego. Look at Jay-Z, he has motorcycles, but Silk and Master got hummas, and blah blah we bout dat. The truth has died from the music and when its there it brings success, example, Eminem, that boy keeps it real, J5, Black Eye Peas, Dilated Peoples, Nas, Outkast, Scarface, they are the truth in Hip Hop, but everyone else, just blankets it with glitter. When Chronic and Doggystyle came out, words, expression and music like that had never been express on one full album from track 1 to track 20. Dre and Snoop, yes they have been caught up in the corruption of rap, but they also know where their roots are, and they understand the difference between now and past. They still make some tight ass music, but truly all that real undeinable truth is missing from their albums, they have it, but just not enough. I
Damn .... hope i didn't bore you, just letting off some thoughts.
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Thats some truth right there. Rap has unfortunaltely gone commercial. There is a thin line between Rap and Pop now-a-days. Back in the day it was expression. Rap was a way for struggling people to relieve their stress. Songs like "Cop Killa" and "Fuck tha Police" were banned from radio and T.V. because of how graphic the artist discribed what has gone on in their lives. Now people are just beginning to recognize it.
Its just a shame like you said that Rap is more entertainment then Freedom of expression in a corrupt world.
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I Totally Agree With You, But The Most Important Thing Like You Said Was The Timing... Rappers CANT Keep Saying The Same Things, Over And Over... If Someone Dropped An Album With The Lyrical Content Of The Chronic Today, It Would Be A Joke, Wouldn't Make Any Impact, Because Times Have Changed...
NOW, If I Was A Musician, What Would My Album Sound Like? I'd Be Talking About How Politics Are Friekin' USELESS, Everyone Feels HELPLESS Because Almost EVERYONE Has No Voice In The Government. I Agree With Some Of The Things Republicans Say, And Some Of The Things Democrats Say, But Neither One Of Them Share Even 20 Percent Of My Opinions, And That's True Of Most Of Us. The Closest Thing We've Had To An Uncorrupted, Sensible Person In Office Was Ross Perot! What Is THAT Saying About Politics?....
I'd Also Be Talking About How Families Are Shot All To Hell Today... I Mean, There's No Such Thing As a Family Anymore... Genetics, Evolution, And The Bible Will Tell You That The Most Important Thing To People Is A Family, And Now A Days We've Got Kids That Parents Don't Give A Fuck About, We've Got 5 Year Olds Who Think Vince McMahon Is Their Dad, Since They Sit Around And Watch T.V. All Day... Half The Time Parents Don't Even Know Where There Kids Are! THATS Why You Got Dumbasses Shooting Up Schools, If Their Parents Woulda Done Their Job, It Wouldn't of Went Down Like That...
That's The Type Of Albums Peeps NEED To Be Releasing.
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Hey Bpg_Snoopdogg, you made some great points man. But u said Dre and Snoop have been caught up in the corruption of rap, and I gotta disagree a lil . The Dr Dre of today is not the same Dr Dre in 92. Back in the day he was like any other young rapper. He was noted for having wild parties at his house and doing crazy shit, just not giving a fuck. Today Dr Dre is a multi millionaire living on the hills in a mansion. He'd rather spend time with his family rather than going out with friends partying. In the Up In Smoke special on MTV he talks about how its ironic how he used as much police protection as possible, unlike in the NWA days when they were hollering "fuck the police". This is a different day and age. Dre can't rap about the same stuff as he did in the early 90's, because like Trauma said, it would be a total joke.
Personally I don't mind listening to Hot Boys or other rappers talking about all the Ice they rock, or the newest cars they are driving, because I don't take it serious. When I bump them I know they aint talking about nothing important or shit that I can relate to, but I like alot of Mannie Fresh's beats and its nice to drive to....It all depends on what you like. I can listen to pure westcoast gangsta music, along with Hot Boys, and even SOME conscious rap. I like all formats of rap, but I understand those who don't and feel that it's a bad commercialization
BPG, like I said that was a nice piece that you wrote. U hit the nail right on the head with alot of the shit u were saying.
"I don't wear alot of gold cuz its tacky.....I bust a Raider jacket, t-shirt and khakis.
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Well ... see I dont like rappers just talking about how many riches they have, if you become a famous rapper, musician, actor ...etc we all know what your going to get, you don't need to express it in every song ... The reason why Eminem is on TOP of the rap community is because he actually makes you think while he flows, its not just some dull line about his new car he bought at the dealership yesterday, its about the way life is now and how he feels about it, and when you listen to it you actually try to interperate it while he flows. Thats the type of music that Dre and Snoop did too, and they still do it, but now their albums are full of other songs that are used for simple commercial purposes. Cash Money may have a fan base, but they surely aren't on top, I hardly hear about them, they are just materialistic in what I see, which is all off TV and radio so I dont know, I just like to interperate my shit, thats what an artist is suppose to do... to many people are doing it for the money and its sickening ... its like Alex Rodriguez of the Rangers , he makes more money playing baseball than the country Rwanda earns a year ... its pathetic!
Gimme some ice, i need a cool down
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Yeah I agree with what Trauma said. Instead of rappin about how much Ice they got, how many bitches they fuck and how many cars they got, they should be rappin about the shit that is goin on today.
Thats why records by Dre, 2pac, Public Enemy, etc were so meaningful and so respected today. Hearing about bitches and money gets old very quickly.
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My opinion on rappers today is that a lot of them queue Nelly, Will Smith, Mystical..are trying to appeal to the pop audence a little more than a rapper usually would have done cause thats all "in "now.. I mean i think the only person who is saying what they feel and being orginal is Slim Shady..Sure Snoop and Dre are good Dre will always be in music cause he is skilled "musically" and i don't think snoop will go away either..The only thing with him is that if he doesn't say or do anything orginal on his next album people will start to give up on him ... OK you can blame the last couple of albums on No Limit...or can you? I always thought when people slammed No Limit for ruining Snoops carrer was " Well hes such a big star why doesn't he TELL THEM what HE WANTS!" As 4 ice cube etc they aren't saying anything new or originally ... Don't get me wrong i don't want any of these guys to give up ... But heres me who is not a rapper and can think of a lot of topics they could rap about apart from "pimpin, drugs etc" as this is gettin V.old esp. from Snoop I mean come on 5 albums later and still rapping bout the same things... The last Meal was a little more original but he should try to be a lot more oringinal
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Yo bgp snoop dogg makes some good points. I feel as though rap is being taken away from the real people and it's now in the hands of commercial america. You got people on pringles commercials who don't know crap about hip hop trying to portray it. You got people just in the game for money. They offer nothing but them talking about how much doe they have. Jay-Z is a great artist and he pretty much puts out what every one is gonna buy. But this commercialism is tired.
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Yep. The commercialism is getting tiring and I even see it on Tha Eastsidaz song where Snoop says "We got women on the left, platinum on our chest"
We must hear that every other song we hear on rap stations now. There was a time when rap was expression, but now only a few people are doing it. It is becoming so hard to find meaningfull artists. So what do we do? We have to make a new type of rap style ... its called CONSCIOUS RAP ... there was a time when thats all rap was, now its so scarce we have to label those who still stick with it. .. its sad. I myself love the rap a conscious man can flow .. it takes no conscious to scream platinum this, bitch please and so forth ... hopefully we can get some tight shit from the west to prove this ... they had it and just gave up on it ....
This is a flow I made about my feelings
It takes no time for an unconscious mind to scream about platinum and their collection of nines/ the grace in truth and proof when in someons rhyme/ is history at pause and a look back in time .........
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These two albums mark a point in music history that has not been matched in Hip Hop since their debuts ... why though? There have been albums out since then that have matched just as much glory, but truthfully an honestly, even the "so called" king of rap, 2pac, could have never come close to what these albums represent and this how I feel about it:
Back in 92 I would say the America was going through some tough times with street violence, racism, freedom, and prejudice. There was no doubt that trouble loomed throughout. Most of us now are in our late teens, but we all remember the classes where the local officer would came in and talked about the importance of gangs ... It was an issue back then that scared americas streets. L.A. was a big issue, probably the biggest, but besides all the turmoil surrounding the issues I believe that if these two albums had come out at a different time, it would have been different. Here we have Dr. Dre, great producer, but young man from Comptom, who grew up in the hood, lived life hard, and was able to get out. Then we have Snoop... tough crip, drug dealer, 22 plater nickel owner, and one tough ass teen. These two guys busted out of their shells and came out with some dope ass music, but personally to me, when I think about those albums, I think about "Rodney King" , I think about marches in the streets, riots over powers, I think about Public Enemy ... It was the voices of our U.S. government, and the voices of the people who lived the life. When the albums came out, no one had heard music like that, people loved or hated it. We were forced to put stickers on our CD's so children would know to stay away from them, government just tried to shut the music down, but they couldn't and thats because the music was so real!!! Since this point, I have not heard music so real, so fresh, so on point, rap has been corrupted, by sexy women, wrists full of glitter, background dancers, money, cars, and popularity. When Juvenile came out, his music was the same way, but when the money came his away, his music turned to "we got dat fire." Rap doesn't express a meaning anymore, its not used to express, its used for ego. Look at Jay-Z, he has motorcycles, but Silk and Master got hummas, and blah blah we bout dat. The truth has died from the music and when its there it brings success, example, Eminem, that boy keeps it real, J5, Black Eye Peas, Dilated Peoples, Nas, Outkast, Scarface, they are the truth in Hip Hop, but everyone else, just blankets it with glitter. When Chronic and Doggystyle came out, words, expression and music like that had never been express on one full album from track 1 to track 20. Dre and Snoop, yes they have been caught up in the corruption of rap, but they also know where their roots are, and they understand the difference between now and past. They still make some tight ass music, but truly all that real undeinable truth is missing from their albums, they have it, but just not enough. I
Damn .... hope i didn't bore you, just letting off some thoughts.
:D
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I love The Chronic and Doggystyle as much as the next person [especially Doggystyle, which is most definatly one of my top 10 fav rap albums], but to say Pac never made an album as good as these is going a bit far. "Me Against The World" and "All Eyez On Me" are easily two of the greatest albums ever made, and I could easily make the arguement that they are better than The Chronic or Doggystyle.........All Eyez On Me might be the most complete rap album EVER made, and Me Against The World is quite possibly the best rap album ever made just based on deepness alone. All four albums are pretty close, but Me Against The World is probably my sentimental fav of the bunch.
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Check out K-os y'all for real, he's actually a mature cat.
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These two albums mark a point in music history that has not been matched in Hip Hop since their debuts ... why though? There have been albums out since then that have matched just as much glory, but truthfully an honestly, even the "so called" king of rap, 2pac, could have never come close to what these albums represent and this how I feel about it:
Back in 92 I would say the America was going through some tough times with street violence, racism, freedom, and prejudice. There was no doubt that trouble loomed throughout. Most of us now are in our late teens, but we all remember the classes where the local officer would came in and talked about the importance of gangs ... It was an issue back then that scared americas streets. L.A. was a big issue, probably the biggest, but besides all the turmoil surrounding the issues I believe that if these two albums had come out at a different time, it would have been different. Here we have Dr. Dre, great producer, but young man from Comptom, who grew up in the hood, lived life hard, and was able to get out. Then we have Snoop... tough crip, drug dealer, 22 plater nickel owner, and one tough ass teen. These two guys busted out of their shells and came out with some dope ass music, but personally to me, when I think about those albums, I think about "Rodney King" , I think about marches in the streets, riots over powers, I think about Public Enemy ... It was the voices of our U.S. government, and the voices of the people who lived the life. When the albums came out, no one had heard music like that, people loved or hated it. We were forced to put stickers on our CD's so children would know to stay away from them, government just tried to shut the music down, but they couldn't and thats because the music was so real!!! Since this point, I have not heard music so real, so fresh, so on point, rap has been corrupted, by sexy women, wrists full of glitter, background dancers, money, cars, and popularity. When Juvenile came out, his music was the same way, but when the money came his away, his music turned to "we got dat fire." Rap doesn't express a meaning anymore, its not used to express, its used for ego. Look at Jay-Z, he has motorcycles, but Silk and Master got hummas, and blah blah we bout dat. The truth has died from the music and when its there it brings success, example, Eminem, that boy keeps it real, J5, Black Eye Peas, Dilated Peoples, Nas, Outkast, Scarface, they are the truth in Hip Hop, but everyone else, just blankets it with glitter. When Chronic and Doggystyle came out, words, expression and music like that had never been express on one full album from track 1 to track 20. Dre and Snoop, yes they have been caught up in the corruption of rap, but they also know where their roots are, and they understand the difference between now and past. They still make some tight ass music, but truly all that real undeinable truth is missing from their albums, they have it, but just not enough. I
Damn .... hope i didn't bore you, just letting off some thoughts.
Excellent post and I agree totally.
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Hahaha, thanks yall... I wrote this shit more than a year ago......
stupid 'myrealname'
-Big BpG
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Thats why records by Dre, 2pac, Public Enemy, etc were so meaningful and so respected today. Hearing about bitches and money gets old very quickly.
Yup, Dont forget Dead Prez, Bone Thugs, and Gang Starr....they do tha same shit....they dont need no Ice to shine.
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i agree with this whole topic basiscally
back then, in 92 aroudn there earlier, rap was about the talent and what you can express, now like everyone else is saying its all about ice and cars. the rapper should know by now that we know they have fancy cars and expensive nice ice
also tho any rapper should be able to do a party song and thats all good, but now its all about becoming the next big thing without that much talent but just becoming pop
rapping about whats goin on and making it sound good is a much better way of hip hop
criminal 999 that song was "the day the niggaz took over"
that was a tight song and it expressed stuff about the riots and what was goin on
the thing is, the expression doesnt matter to new rappers, its the money, if you look like a fool and make tons of money, then thats what they are looking for
i dunno, all i can say is rap has CHANGED
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on point in places, but the music didn't really sell coz it was true...it sold because of the content of the lyrics....thats all really. u might not agree with me, but thats still the reason rap sells so much...cos it appeals with the kids...SWEARIN is mainly what attracts most of the buyers, not quality of production or whatever...
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Yeah, I still agree with this, LOL.
The only part I would change is that snoop wasn't really a supertough crip, in my opinion. He was a crip, but he wasn't out killin' people.
But you're 100% right about the albums being there at the right place at the right time.
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on point in places, but the music didn't really sell coz it was true...it sold because of the content of the lyrics....thats all really. u might not agree with me, but thats still the reason rap sells so much...cos it appeals with the kids...SWEARIN is mainly what attracts most of the buyers, not quality of production or whatever...
well kids may like the swearing in music..but it definatley isnt because of the content of the lyrics.. its the image and the production, that appeals to mainstream... thats like saying vanilla ice sold 10x million because of the contents of his lyrics
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:'(
hip hop being commercial is the fans's fault, they always wanna hear something different , they can't stick with a style , and when they change their style, well they want another style or the old style back, i mean what the fuck,i mean live with it now...
by the way , i saw on the new XXl mag that a new group claiming they'll bring that shit back , that they tired of that soft shit .... and they copy nwa with a track called "fuck the F.B.I", i didn't heard it yet but ::)
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Yeah, I still agree with this, LOL.
The only part I would change is that snoop wasn't really a supertough crip, in my opinion. He was a crip, but he wasn't out killin' people.
But you're 100% right about the albums being there at the right place at the right time.
don''t start trippin people, i ain't claimin that snoop his or was a killa but suge knight's bitch get a dirty cop to stole an important folder in the murder case and snoop didn't do time, so we don't know the truth , and many many murders ain't solve when they close them, maybe some rollin 20 have some to do.... anyways u see the board, it's like britney spears sayin she's a virgin when shes not, it's because of the image. it ain't good.
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well kids may like the swearing in music..but it definatley isnt because of the content of the lyrics.. its the image and the production, that appeals to mainstream... thats like saying vanilla ice sold 10x million because of the contents of his lyrics
like it or not mate it's fact...most rap albums have always been bought by kiddiz...and kiddiz don't care about production and shit...as long as they're rappin about guns (which kidz luv) and swear...then it sells (to the kidz),
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like it or not mate it's fact...most rap albums have always been bought by kiddiz...and kiddiz don't care about production and shit...as long as they're rappin about guns (which kidz luv) and swear...then it sells (to the kidz),
you are wrong my friend...look at what has been selling lately...nelly, ja rule, jay z, ludacris...and they aint rappin bout no gunz man!
yes youth buys hip hop, but they like catchy toons and an artist that have character... if what you are saying is right, mack 10 would be sellin5x platinum.. GANGSTA rap has not been selling in the past few years
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mean i hate this Nu metal bands who are using rap cuz its poulære (Linking park)
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These two albums mark a point in music history that has not been matched in Hip Hop since their debuts ... why though? There have been albums out since then that have matched just as much glory, but truthfully an honestly, even the "so called" king of rap, 2pac, could have never come close to what these albums represent and this how I feel about it:
Back in 92 I would say the America was going through some tough times with street violence, racism, freedom, and prejudice. There was no doubt that trouble loomed throughout. Most of us now are in our late teens, but we all remember the classes where the local officer would came in and talked about the importance of gangs ... It was an issue back then that scared americas streets. L.A. was a big issue, probably the biggest, but besides all the turmoil surrounding the issues I believe that if these two albums had come out at a different time, it would have been different. Here we have Dr. Dre, great producer, but young man from Comptom, who grew up in the hood, lived life hard, and was able to get out. Then we have Snoop... tough crip, drug dealer, 22 plater nickel owner, and one tough ass teen. These two guys busted out of their shells and came out with some dope ass music, but personally to me, when I think about those albums, I think about "Rodney King" , I think about marches in the streets, riots over powers, I think about Public Enemy ... It was the voices of our U.S. government, and the voices of the people who lived the life. When the albums came out, no one had heard music like that, people loved or hated it. We were forced to put stickers on our CD's so children would know to stay away from them, government just tried to shut the music down, but they couldn't and thats because the music was so real!!! Since this point, I have not heard music so real, so fresh, so on point, rap has been corrupted, by sexy women, wrists full of glitter, background dancers, money, cars, and popularity. When Juvenile came out, his music was the same way, but when the money came his away, his music turned to "we got dat fire." Rap doesn't express a meaning anymore, its not used to express, its used for ego. Look at Jay-Z, he has motorcycles, but Silk and Master got hummas, and blah blah we bout dat. The truth has died from the music and when its there it brings success, example, Eminem, that boy keeps it real, J5, Black Eye Peas, Dilated Peoples, Nas, Outkast, Scarface, they are the truth in Hip Hop, but everyone else, just blankets it with glitter. When Chronic and Doggystyle came out, words, expression and music like that had never been express on one full album from track 1 to track 20. Dre and Snoop, yes they have been caught up in the corruption of rap, but they also know where their roots are, and they understand the difference between now and past. They still make some tight ass music, but truly all that real undeinable truth is missing from their albums, they have it, but just not enough. I
Damn .... hope i didn't bore you, just letting off some thoughts.
First time I read this, great post, there's some good points there & alot of them I agree with.
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you are wrong my friend...look at what has been selling lately...nelly, ja rule, jay z, ludacris...and they aint rappin bout no gunz man!
ah...but that's where pop rap cums into it...^all 4 u just sed are pop rap.
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good article and a tight read BPG...we need more threads like this where people are actually putting thier thoughts down for real ;)