West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: NobodyButMe on January 14, 2004, 06:33:08 AM
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i don't.
i consider rappers as poets. all they do, in my opinion, is write something and speak it over music, which isn't necessarily music either, (it's more of a composition). to me, it's really no different than someone reading shakespeare or edgar allan poe over a music track. a musician creates music, (music = different musical notes) with an instrument or with their singing voice.
i'm not saying that i don't like rap or hip hop. i just don't think it's music. honestly, i think anyone can read lyrics over a track and it'll sound very similar to almost anyone. for those that don't sound similar, they just have special attributes which make it sound different because of their speaking or reading style. like pac can read/speak with animation. guru reads/speaks with monotony. nas reads/speaks like he believes. but not everyone can play a guitar over a track. therefore i think rappers are writers. not musicians. maybe poets. but not musicians. what ya'll think?
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Yeah, i'd say they were poets too, good observation. And there aren't many that are much better than amateur poets, you know? I guess they do have talent, lol, like I can't sit here and say 50 cent isn't talented, but he's no poet, and he sure ain't no musician.
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Producers are musicians, rappers are poets.
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Not only are rappers musicians; but hip-hop is superior to all other forms of music. Making rap artists the greatest musicians of our era, or any era for that matter. There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap. They say one note high and one note low.
This is something I've always said, Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys. Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush. Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.
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Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys.
give me reasons why dre is a better composer than mozart or beethoven to make the rest of this argument have any validity. dre sits behind a board all day for months before he drops one song, which is produced with electonic (ie: not real) sounds. beethoven makes a composition with real instruments and produces real music. dre's music is electronic, programmed to do loops and programmed into a drum machine. beethoven actually has to pay attention to time signatures and rhythm and beat and melody. dre has a drum machine do it for him...i just don't see how you can say something like that.....please explain
Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush.
you're talking about two different things. van gogh is painter. eminem is a rapper. that's like comparing muhammad ali to michael jordan over who plays a better game of horse.
Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.
do you think that that has anything to do with the availability of mass communication? example: jesus christ only reached a few hundred people in the stories they tell of in the bible, yet he's obviously had more of an effect on the world than anyone in the history of the world combined. if beethoven or mozart or bach were in our time period, their music would have reached more people.
i'm not trying to talk shit, i just wanna hear your opinions and arguments of why you believe those things you said. i think that this makes for an interesting topic....
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There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap. They say one note high and one note low.
i somewhat agree - but Everyone has melody, tone, rhythm, and pitch when they talk as well. i mean, i got tone and pitch and rhythm when i am telling my friends a funny story. one note high and one note low is nothing special, and it has nothing to do with music. it has to do with how you want to say something....so does that mean that because we all talk with rhythm and tone that we're all great musicians too?
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^^ I listen to Beethoven's "9th Symphony" more often that to any beat by the Doc 8) That symphony is just unfuckwitable :D
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I do consider them musicians.
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Not only are rappers musicians; but hip-hop is superior to all other forms of music. Making rap artists the greatest musicians of our era, or any era for that matter. There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap. They say one note high and one note low.
This is something I've always said, Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys. Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush. Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.
You think you can summarily dismiss all the great artists of all time, but you can't even SPELL their names even close to correctly, it just shows you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, and you've never even seen a Van Gogh painting.
*Edit - had to respell Van Gogh properly, lol
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A Producer, yes. A Rapper no. To me a Musician makes music. Lyrics are not music.
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Rappers make music, and are therefore musicians, imo.
Some more than others, e.g. singing/harmonizing on choruses etc.
There's not many rappers that have never sung.. almost everybody did it at one time or another, and some rappers even raps in a singing way, e.g. Bone Thugs.
And rapping is about flowing properly over a beat, so that's a musical challenge right there.
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I do consider them musicians.
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Not only are rappers musicians; but hip-hop is superior to all other forms of music. Making rap artists the greatest musicians of our era, or any era for that matter. There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap. They say one note high and one note low.
This is something I've always said, Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys. Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush. Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.
okay this is where i go off:
you think that rappers are superior cuz they say one not high and one note low?!!!!!! are you fucking retarted? here is a complete list of singers who do the exact same thing ....BUT BETTER! any of these artists could do what a rapper could do, BUT no rapper could do what they do....
steven tyler: listen to 'dream on'.....on the real only 2% of the male population in this planet could sing that well. and even less could hit that climax note as effectively and frequently and consistantly and as beatiful as steven tyler....oh yeah also, watch the making of "walk this way" with run DMC , it's sad really. Steven tyler is rapping and and freestyling better than Run and Darrell!!!! also go listen to the OG walk this way and it's CLEAR steven tyler flows on that song better than run or dmc! and you want to know what's really sad .........steven tyler has more soul in his voice than many black singers!
chris cornell-like i said above there is only 2 % of the male population that could sing as well and hit notes like steven tyler, and chris cornell is apart of that exclusive club. lsiten to various soundgarden songs and it becomes clear. chris could go from deep and menacing soft and soothing to a high pitched folseto that rivals mariah cary....then after shreeking out a high pitched note he could go back to johnny cash-like low again. that is almost anatomicaly impossible......but he could do it, oh yeah and it doesn't hurt that he can play an instrument effectively at the same time.....something no rapper has done.
freddy mercury- dude was a genius , like steven tyler and chris cornell he possesed a insane range. he also the gift of many vocal techniques that many go to vocal schoool for to learn
all three of these dudes graced mics better than rakim!!!! this is only 3!!! three!!!!! artists of a thousand (literally) that i could name that posses greater vocal skills than any 2 bit rapper!
dre is the man......but he's only the man in the world of hip hop!! bach beethoveen mozart shcubert , et are masters of all music! most of which composed songs and melodies that were 23 -40 minutes long.......dre composes beats that are 3-6 SECONDS at best long , and loops them for 4 minutes! who's the better composer here!? most of these composers wrote different riffs for a many as a 100 different instruments to play at one time.....that's variations of a song for damn near 40 minutes of music , up to or more than 100 instruments playing efficiently at beatifully at once!!! dre on the other hand samples 3 beats asks collin wolfe or mike elizando to create some bass then scraps together a 3 second drum loop...........impressive for a hip hop artist but not nearly as impressive as a 100 piece orchestra play many differet things at once and making classic shit that last over 100 years.....and as far as longevity goes and is concerned, more people are likely to recongnize a bach riff from a few hundred years ago than a dre riff from last year on an obie trice cd! hell i even put dre's most well known song "nuthin but a g thang up against" fur elise.......and more people in the world will recognize and LIKE fur elise. also when you study the notation and structure of a peice (A PEICE!) of music from a bethoveen song it's more complex and artistic than any dre song here's an example
nothin' but a g thang (entire song)
|-7-5-------|----7-5-7-9-7-5---------
|-----7-5-7-|-----------------7-6-5-6
|------------|------------------------
|------------|------------------------
|------------|-----------------------
|------------|-----------------------
|------------|------------------------
THA"TS IT!!!!! that is the whole song,this is what took dre probably 2 months to make!
infinite pick up a guitar, this song is soooooo fucking simple even a beginer could play this shit
now for some classical shit:
7----(7-------------------(7-----10-|-10-----10---------------------0-0--12-|
-7----)7--7-----------7----)7-----8--|-10---------------7-8-7^8^7----0-0--0--|
-7--7-(7-----7-----7-------(7--------|-11--------11-----7-7-7-----9--9-11-9--|
-9--9-----9----------------)9--------|-12--12--------------------------------|
-9-----------------------------------|-12------------12----------------------|
-7--------------7--------7-----7-----|-10------------------------------------|
sl. sl. H P
-----------------7--7--/12-|--12-----12----------8--7--10-7^10^7--|
-----------8--8------------|--12---------12--12--0--5--0-------7--|
-----------9--9--7--7--/9--|--12---------9---9---0-----0----------|
---------------------------|--14--14-----9------------------------|
----/9--7------------------|--14---------10-----------------------|
--0------------------------|--0---0-------------------------------|
(end Rhy. Fig. 1)
okay: this shit is like 5 seconds of a 20 minute song by bethoveen
metallica covered a portio of it on their song "to live is to die" so if you must heear it...
but yeah.....not bad for a fucking deaf dude huh? not bad for someone who couldn't hear what he was doing
also another thing , mozart was writing (great) symphanies when he was just a kid at 8 years old........something dre couldn't do at 40 !
classical music is known as high class art
rap music is known as low end art
that right there automatically void's your little opinion.
as far as eminem painting a better more vivid picture than van gogh...no shit!
real art isn't something you look at and say wow he really drew that guys face pretty realistically!! that is simple and and low end art... high end and real art is what van gogh made. he made art that you had to think about . shit you had to look at and interpret. eminem is a true artist i will give him that but don't say stupid shit like he's up there or above van gogh
it's CLEAR you have no scense of art!
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rappers are not musicians .....noen of them play instruments ...........and the ones who do ....play them pretty amiturely ,yes and that goes for the roots.
nor are they poets......most of them are horrible rap lyracists an even worse poets. the only man who ever rapped and made sensible poetry was pac
rappers and mc's are just entertainers
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Don, I'd also like to chime in that Dre didn't even write Nothin' but a G thang, he just sampled the shit, lol. If you've heard I wanna do something freaky to you, it's the same exact fucking beat. That would be like my biggest accomplishment as a producer being a new version of The Watcher. It'd be the same beat Dre did, lol.
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I dont consider Rap low end music, hella no focker, but sayin that Dre can touch Beethoven in a way is just ridicolous.
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Producers are musicians, rappers are poets.
truth by the man everyone wants to ignore 'cause his pretty in pink.
Anyways, I'll even take it a step further, if rappers aren't musicians, then are they artist. Some rappers I would say are artist are ones like 2Pac, Nas, Outkast, well 50 Cent, Biggie and LL Cool J are just rapper. A rapper can be lyrically gifted and all, but tend to just be there to rap or entertain. Biggie of course being the greatest at that. Artist in hip-hop are rappers that take their lyrics to another level. Someone like 2Pac was not the most lyrically gifted in rap, but made every lyric so you can feel his emotion, and through his lyrics... made art. But that's a whole 'nother arguement.
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Not only are rappers musicians; but hip-hop is superior to all other forms of music. Making rap artists the greatest musicians of our era, or any era for that matter. There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap. They say one note high and one note low.
This is something I've always said, Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys. Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush. Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.
okay this is where i go off:
you think that rappers are superior cuz they say one not high and one note low?!!!!!! are you fucking retarted?
dre is the man......but he's only the man in the world of hip hop!! bach beethoveen mozart shcubert , et are masters of all music! most of which composed songs and melodies that were 23 -40 minutes long.......dre composes beats that are 3-6 SECONDS at best long , and loops them for 4 minutes! who's the better composer here!? most of these composers wrote different riffs for a many as a 100 different instruments to play at one time.....that's variations of a song for damn near 40 minutes of music , up to or more than 100 instruments playing efficiently at beatifully at once!!! dre on the other hand samples 3 beats asks collin wolfe or mike elizando to create some bass then scraps together a 3 second drum loop...........impressive for a hip hop artist but not nearly as impressive as a 100 piece orchestra play many differet things at once and making classic shit that last over 100 years.....and as far as longevity goes and is concerned, more people are likely to recongnize a bach riff from a few hundred years ago than a dre riff from last year on an obie trice cd! hell i even put dre's most well known song "nuthin but a g thang up against" fur elise.......and more people in the world will recognize and LIKE fur elise. also when you study the notation and structure of a peice (A PEICE!) of music from a bethoveen song it's more complex and artistic than any dre song here's an example
nothin' but a g thang (entire song)
|-7-5-------|----7-5-7-9-7-5---------
|-----7-5-7-|-----------------7-6-5-6
|------------|------------------------
|------------|------------------------
|------------|-----------------------
|------------|-----------------------
|------------|------------------------
THA"TS IT!!!!! that is the whole song,this is what took dre probably 2 months to make!
infinite pick up a guitar, this song is soooooo fucking simple even a beginer could play this shit
now for some classical shit:
7----(7-------------------(7-----10-|-10-----10---------------------0-0--12-|
-7----)7--7-----------7----)7-----8--|-10---------------7-8-7^8^7----0-0--0--|
-7--7-(7-----7-----7-------(7--------|-11--------11-----7-7-7-----9--9-11-9--|
-9--9-----9----------------)9--------|-12--12--------------------------------|
-9-----------------------------------|-12------------12----------------------|
-7--------------7--------7-----7-----|-10------------------------------------|
sl. sl. H P
-----------------7--7--/12-|--12-----12----------8--7--10-7^10^7--|
-----------8--8------------|--12---------12--12--0--5--0-------7--|
-----------9--9--7--7--/9--|--12---------9---9---0-----0----------|
---------------------------|--14--14-----9------------------------|
----/9--7------------------|--14---------10-----------------------|
--0------------------------|--0---0-------------------------------|
(end Rhy. Fig. 1)
okay: this shit is like 5 seconds of a 20 minute song by bethoveen
metallica covered a portio of it on their song "to live is to die" so if you must heear it...
but yeah.....not bad for a fucking deaf dude huh? not bad for someone who couldn't hear what he was doing
also another thing , mozart was writing (great) symphanies when he was just a kid at 8 years old........something dre couldn't do at 40 !
classical music is known as high class art
rap music is known as low end art
that right there automatically void's your little opinion.
as far as eminem painting a better more vivid picture than van gogh...no shit!
real art isn't something you look at and say wow he really drew that guys face pretty realistically!! that is simple and and low end art... high end and real art is what van gogh made. he made art that you had to think about . shit you had to look at and interpret. eminem is a true artist i will give him that but don't say stupid shit like he's up there or above van gogh
it's CLEAR you have no scense of art!
^^word. exactly what i was trying to say, but don't have the means or passion to put it down like that
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I dont consider Rap low end music, hella no focker
i wouldn't think many people on a rap forum would consider rap music 'low end music' - but the rest of society considers rap the worst form of music.
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Don, I'd also like to chime in that Dre didn't even write Nothin' but a G thang, he just sampled the shit, lol. If you've heard I wanna do something freaky to you, it's the same exact fucking beat. That would be like my biggest accomplishment as a producer being a new version of The Watcher. It'd be the same beat Dre did, lol.
and dre even admits that he doesn't write his own lyrics on some songs...
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and to back up don again, i think that the roots are amateur musicians as well....
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Not only are rappers musicians; but hip-hop is superior to all other forms of music. Making rap artists the greatest musicians of our era, or any era for that matter. There is melody, rythym, tone, and pitch in their voices when they rap. They say one note high and one note low.
This is something I've always said, Dre is a better producer, composer than Mozart, Beathoven, or any of those dead guys. Eminem is a better artist and paints a more vivid picture than Vango with a paintbrush. Eminem and 2pac have more musical talent than anyone to ever touch a microphone or hold a stage in any time period.
okay this is where i go off:
you think that rappers are superior cuz they say one not high and one note low?!!!!!! are you fucking retarted? here is a complete list of singers who do the exact same thing ....BUT BETTER! any of these artists could do what a rapper could do, BUT no rapper could do what they do....
steven tyler: listen to 'dream on'.....on the real only 2% of the male population in this planet could sing that well. and even less could hit that climax note as effectively and frequently and consistantly and as beatiful as steven tyler....oh yeah also, watch the making of "walk this way" with run DMC , it's sad really. Steven tyler is rapping and and freestyling better than Run and Darrell!!!! also go listen to the OG walk this way and it's CLEAR steven tyler flows on that song better than run or dmc! and you want to know what's really sad .........steven tyler has more soul in his voice than many black singers!
chris cornell-like i said above there is only 2 % of the male population that could sing as well and hit notes like steven tyler, and chris cornell is apart of that exclusive club. lsiten to various soundgarden songs and it becomes clear. chris could go from deep and menacing soft and soothing to a high pitched folseto that rivals mariah cary....then after shreeking out a high pitched note he could go back to johnny cash-like low again. that is almost anatomicaly impossible......but he could do it, oh yeah and it doesn't hurt that he can play an instrument effectively at the same time.....something no rapper has done.
freddy mercury- dude was a genius , like steven tyler and chris cornell he possesed a insane range. he also the gift of many vocal techniques that many go to vocal schoool for to learn
all three of these dudes graced mics better than rakim!!!! this is only 3!!! three!!!!! artists of a thousand (literally) that i could name that posses greater vocal skills than any 2 bit rapper!
dre is the man......but he's only the man in the world of hip hop!! bach beethoveen mozart shcubert , et are masters of all music! most of which composed songs and melodies that were 23 -40 minutes long.......dre composes beats that are 3-6 SECONDS at best long , and loops them for 4 minutes! who's the better composer here!? most of these composers wrote different riffs for a many as a 100 different instruments to play at one time.....that's variations of a song for damn near 40 minutes of music , up to or more than 100 instruments playing efficiently at beatifully at once!!! dre on the other hand samples 3 beats asks collin wolfe or mike elizando to create some bass then scraps together a 3 second drum loop...........impressive for a hip hop artist but not nearly as impressive as a 100 piece orchestra play many differet things at once and making classic shit that last over 100 years.....and as far as longevity goes and is concerned, more people are likely to recongnize a bach riff from a few hundred years ago than a dre riff from last year on an obie trice cd! hell i even put dre's most well known song "nuthin but a g thang up against" fur elise.......and more people in the world will recognize and LIKE fur elise. also when you study the notation and structure of a peice (A PEICE!) of music from a bethoveen song it's more complex and artistic than any dre song here's an example
nothin' but a g thang (entire song)
|-7-5-------|----7-5-7-9-7-5---------
|-----7-5-7-|-----------------7-6-5-6
|------------|------------------------
|------------|------------------------
|------------|-----------------------
|------------|-----------------------
|------------|------------------------
THA"TS IT!!!!! that is the whole song,this is what took dre probably 2 months to make!
infinite pick up a guitar, this song is soooooo fucking simple even a beginer could play this shit
now for some classical shit:
7----(7-------------------(7-----10-|-10-----10---------------------0-0--12-|
-7----)7--7-----------7----)7-----8--|-10---------------7-8-7^8^7----0-0--0--|
-7--7-(7-----7-----7-------(7--------|-11--------11-----7-7-7-----9--9-11-9--|
-9--9-----9----------------)9--------|-12--12--------------------------------|
-9-----------------------------------|-12------------12----------------------|
-7--------------7--------7-----7-----|-10------------------------------------|
sl. sl. H P
-----------------7--7--/12-|--12-----12----------8--7--10-7^10^7--|
-----------8--8------------|--12---------12--12--0--5--0-------7--|
-----------9--9--7--7--/9--|--12---------9---9---0-----0----------|
---------------------------|--14--14-----9------------------------|
----/9--7------------------|--14---------10-----------------------|
--0------------------------|--0---0-------------------------------|
(end Rhy. Fig. 1)
okay: this shit is like 5 seconds of a 20 minute song by bethoveen
metallica covered a portio of it on their song "to live is to die" so if you must heear it...
but yeah.....not bad for a fucking deaf dude huh? not bad for someone who couldn't hear what he was doing
also another thing , mozart was writing (great) symphanies when he was just a kid at 8 years old........something dre couldn't do at 40 !
classical music is known as high class art
rap music is known as low end art
that right there automatically void's your little opinion.
as far as eminem painting a better more vivid picture than van gogh...no shit!
real art isn't something you look at and say wow he really drew that guys face pretty realistically!! that is simple and and low end art... high end and real art is what van gogh made. he made art that you had to think about . shit you had to look at and interpret. eminem is a true artist i will give him that but don't say stupid shit like he's up there or above van gogh
it's CLEAR you have no scense of art!
Jake, there is no doubt u know what u're talking about, yea, those are great musicians.Although u have got to admit that it's very hard to compare the creativity and artistic quallities u draw from Bethoveen,Shcubert or even Steven Tyler(and any other musician\singer from any erea of music from these last decades for that meter ) to the creativity U draw from quallity HipHop. While most of music is essentialy about energy, vibe, moods, musical(instrumental) complexity and in beter cases lyrical substance, Rap is undoubtly the lyrical leader of the parade, no meter how u look at it, even mathematicly u can see that sung poetry is relatively poorer when it comes to vocabulary and it is also delivered onto the music in a simpler manner, while sung lyricism can get repetative in terms of delivery (like no spoken word delivering lyricist that respects himself can alow ) and while uneven bars could be euaqlized and edited only by streching one note, or simply by shortening it, A rapper has to use what we call Lyrical abillities to fill in the possible gaps while he does not only have to fill in the missing word but also remain a thematical value, another advantage of Rap lyrics is that in general they structurewise mannage to come out most vivid and cinematic while lyricists in rest of music stumble over abstract metaphorical technics (I can understand though how a guy with your taste would prefer abstract lyricism only judging by your coment on the paitings) with themes that are noticeable and probably felt by fans, only that are not executed that well in terms of word for word describtion or storytelling, there are exceptions on both sides to both ways but still, we're talking about the dominant mass, as for vocal abillities, we have got to remember that most rappers are not singers and that most singers are not rappers , I can't imagine any singer carrying out
"N.Y State Of Mind" better than NAS did it, Just like I can't imagine any rapper preforming "Prophet's Song" better than Freddie Mercury did it.
Another aspect I just have to touch is musical complexity, yes, HipHop is relatively simplistic musicly and it is as easy proven mathematicly(just like u proved Jake while comparing "nothing but a g thang" to that classical piece) as the fact Rap is richer when it comes to Lyrical structuring, but one thing is obvious though, the spoken word delivery is best working under it's well tested best friend
The repetative loop, once in my life I would like to see a rapper flow to some classical joint in it's original form without sampling it or looping it. I guess this is the prise we have to pay for complex lyricism.
as for the question weather I consider Rappers musicians, frankly, the action of rendering rappers as musicians, poets, preachers, artists or anything else is not what will make me apriciate their art less, one thing could be said for sure, it mos' deffenetly(just like the rapper 8)) is art.
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Yeah, I never said they weren't talented or weren't 'artists', I just said they sure as hell ain't musicians. I don't really consider them poets either, because they're just too different, it's a diff. type of art, no rapper alive can match the great poets of all time, but they're not trying to, they're just doing their own thing. I would agree that they're storytellers, lol.
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Jake, there is no doubt u know what u're talking about, yea, those are great musicians.Although u have got to admit that it's very hard to compare the creativity and artistic quallities u draw from Bethoveen,Shcubert or even Steven Tyler(and any other musician\singer from any erea of music from these last decades for that meter ) to the creativity U draw from quallity HipHop. While most of music is essentialy about energy, vibe, moods, musical(instrumental) complexity and in beter cases lyrical substance, Rap is undoubtly the lyrical leader of the parade, no meter how u look at it, even mathematicly u can see that sung poetry is relatively poorer when it comes to vocabulary and it is also delivered onto the music in a simpler manner, while sung lyricism can get repetative in terms of delivery (like no spoken word delivering lyricist that respects himself can alow ) and while uneven bars could be euaqlized and edited only by streching one note, or simply by shortening it, A rapper has to use what we call Lyrical abillities to fill in the possible gaps while he does not only have to fill in the missing word but also remain a thematical value, another advantage of Rap lyrics is that in general they structurewise mannage to come out most vivid and cinematic while lyricists in rest of music stumble over abstract metaphorical technics (I can understand though how a guy with your taste would prefer abstract lyricism only judging by your coment on the paitings) with themes that are noticeable and probably felt by fans, only that are not executed that well in terms of word for word describtion or storytelling, there are exceptions on both sides to both ways but still, we're talking about the dominant mass, as for vocal abillities, we have got to remember that most rappers are not singers and that most singers are not rappers , I can't imagine any singer carrying out
"N.Y State Of Mind" better than NAS did it, Just like I can't imagine any rapper preforming "Prophet's Song" better than Freddie Mercury did it.
Another aspect I just have to touch is musical complexity, yes, HipHop is relatively simplistic musicly and it is as easy proven mathematicly(just like u proved Jake while comparing "nothing but a g thang" to that classical piece) as the fact Rap is richer when it comes to Lyrical structuring, but one thing is obvious though, the spoken word delivery is best working under it's well tested best friend
The repetative loop, once in my life I would like to see a rapper flow to some classical joint in it's original form without sampling it or looping it. I guess this is the prise we have to pay for complex lyricism.
as for the question weather I consider Rappers musicians, frankly, the action of rendering rappers as musicians, poets, preachers, artists or anything else is not what will make me apriciate their art less, one thing could be said for sure, it mos' deffenetly(just like the rapper 8)) is art.
good points. but, here comes another argument - what can be considered art? i thought art was painting and/or drawing on a surface ?!?! when should a hip hop song or rap track be considered art? is then, a musical piece, like a beethoven symphony, considered art? i think people throw around that term too often like it should be respected the same way monet is. 'oh he's an artist.' so someone like the "artist" cam'ron is mentioned in the same breath as van gogh? oh hell no.....anyone else see my point? i'm just sick of everyone saying 'this guy is a great artist' and blah blah blah. i don't think cam'ron should ever be considered an artist. much like i could write a rhyme and would never consider myself an artist.
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Jake, there is no doubt u know what u're talking about, yea, those are great musicians.Although u have got to admit that it's very hard to compare the creativity and artistic quallities u draw from Bethoveen,Shcubert or even Steven Tyler(and any other musician\singer from any erea of music from these last decades for that meter ) to the creativity U draw from quallity HipHop. While most of music is essentialy about energy, vibe, moods, musical(instrumental) complexity and in beter cases lyrical substance, Rap is undoubtly the lyrical leader of the parade, no meter how u look at it, even mathematicly u can see that sung poetry is relatively poorer when it comes to vocabulary and it is also delivered onto the music in a simpler manner, while sung lyricism can get repetative in terms of delivery (like no spoken word delivering lyricist that respects himself can alow ) and while uneven bars could be euaqlized and edited only by streching one note, or simply by shortening it, A rapper has to use what we call Lyrical abillities to fill in the possible gaps while he does not only have to fill in the missing word but also remain a thematical value, another advantage of Rap lyrics is that in general they structurewise mannage to come out most vivid and cinematic while lyricists in rest of music stumble over abstract metaphorical technics (I can understand though how a guy with your taste would prefer abstract lyricism only judging by your coment on the paitings) with themes that are noticeable and probably felt by fans, only that are not executed that well in terms of word for word describtion or storytelling, there are exceptions on both sides to both ways but still, we're talking about the dominant mass, as for vocal abillities, we have got to remember that most rappers are not singers and that most singers are not rappers , I can't imagine any singer carrying out
"N.Y State Of Mind" better than NAS did it, Just like I can't imagine any rapper preforming "Prophet's Song" better than Freddie Mercury did it.
Another aspect I just have to touch is musical complexity, yes, HipHop is relatively simplistic musicly and it is as easy proven mathematicly(just like u proved Jake while comparing "nothing but a g thang" to that classical piece) as the fact Rap is richer when it comes to Lyrical structuring, but one thing is obvious though, the spoken word delivery is best working under it's well tested best friend
The repetative loop, once in my life I would like to see a rapper flow to some classical joint in it's original form without sampling it or looping it. I guess this is the prise we have to pay for complex lyricism.
as for the question weather I consider Rappers musicians, frankly, the action of rendering rappers as musicians, poets, preachers, artists or anything else is not what will make me apriciate their art less, one thing could be said for sure, it mos' deffenetly(just like the rapper 8)) is art.
good points. but, here comes another argument - what can be considered art? i thought art was painting and/or drawing on a surface ?!?! when should a hip hop song or rap track be considered art? is then, a musical piece, like a beethoven symphony, considered art? i think people throw around that term too often like it should be respected the same way monet is. 'oh he's an artist.' so someone like the "artist" cam'ron is mentioned in the same breath as van gogh? oh hell no.....anyone else see my point? i'm just sick of everyone saying 'this guy is a great artist' and blah blah blah. i don't think cam'ron should ever be considered an artist. much like i could write a rhyme and would never consider myself an artist.
no Cam'ron is no artist, although Em is, Tupac was, Big was, so is Talib Kweli and so is Mos Def, so r Outkast ,Blackalicious and others, see, aproaching the defenition of "artist" as a Level one needs to get to or to be at is completely acceptable...still I think "ART" is the only word to categorise or define greats like these.
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no rapper alive can match the great poets of all time
True, now that one dead rapper from Oakland, you know his name.... 2Pac, he was a poet. His book of poetry was great, and his music was great. His one of the very few rappers I think can compare to the all time great musicians. His impact on music is general will be felt for along time. His up there with Kurt Cobane, with John Lennon, with Marvin Gaye, as one of the greatest musical artist in the 20th Century.
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I Honestly don't really like Tupac very much, on pretty much any level. I will admit though that he was a poet.
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To break it down... Alot of you are saying.... "Rappers aren't real musicians because making hip-hop beats isn't that complex." And the notes of classical music were compared to the notes played in "Nothin But A G Thang". I can't argue that. Yeah, composing classical music is more complex.
But I don't care if your making music with sticks and trashcans. If it's dope, it's dope. And if you can make your music sound as good with a stick and a trashcan, as Mozart can with an orchestra; then that makes you better than Mozart.
Secondly, I would put the lyrics of "Stan", "The Way I Am", "Me And My Girlfriend" or anything on Illmatic up against any "poet" of any era.
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cam'ron no artist? then what is he? :-\ he's a rapper that brings out cd's and you say he's no artist? ::) :o
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To break it down... Alot of you are saying.... "Rappers aren't real musicians because making hip-hop beats isn't that complex." And the notes of classical music were compared to the notes played in "Nothin But A G Thang". I can't argue that. Yeah, composing classical music is more complex.
But I don't care if your making music with sticks and trashcans. If it's dope, it's dope. And if you can make your music sound as good with a stick and a trashcan, as Mozart can with an orchestra; then that makes you better than Mozart.
Secondly, I would put the lyrics of "Stan", "The Way I Am", "Me And My Girlfriend" or anything on Illmatic up against any "poet" of any era.
Where you fuck up though, is when you assume you're right, LOL. Just survey, oh, the 4 Billion or so people that have heard music since Beethoven wrote it, and ask them which they prefer. Again, your arrogance and lack of respect is hilarious.
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But I don't care if your making music with sticks and trashcans. If it's dope, it's dope. And if you can make your music sound as good with a stick and a trashcan, as Mozart can with an orchestra; then that makes you better than Mozart.
makin a beat is not the same as making music.
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cam'ron no artist? then what is he? :-\ he's a rapper that brings out cd's and you say he's no artist? ::) :o
Homes said he is having hard time puting Cam'ron even near the same category as greats like Bethoveen(which is completely understandable), so I just said that it's coo' aproaching the defenition of the word "Artist" as a certain Elite level that not every half- assed- exprementing- self proclaimed musician could be on, meaning thaT the term "Artist" and "Art" as a whole shouldn't be thrown in every direction, it's a metter of quallity in other words.
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makin a beat is not the same as making music.
uhh, yea, U dunno wat yur talkin about...if tha composer is makin beats using notes, then he is 4 sure makin music...
yall lookin WAY too much into this shit anyway....makin beats by ear is still makin music technically....a producer is makin music constructing a song from 0....etc etc
tha REAL question U should be asking is are all rappers ARTISTS? hell no....I come from tha most musically (especially hip hop) saturated area in america....I'm in da studio everyday wit all these different cats out here, observing everybody....I can honestly say ALOT of these cats are not artists, they are RAPPERS, the rap, they don't sit there constructing songs wit producers, most of tha time they use lame ass concepts or they don't even have any, this is why I don't give beats out 2 random artists, I have 2 be there in da studio producing tha song, makin somethin out of it, what most of these no talent ass rappers do is buy beats in a bulk and just write shit 2 em and record like 5 songs tha next day, constructing a 'song' is very different than rapping 2 a beat.....lemme break it down 4 tha slow learners.....Artists = 2pac, Nas, Jay-Z, Eminem, Mista CaNE etc etc......Rappers = Cam'ron, Juelz Santana, Kurupt, Daz etc etc
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makin a beat is not the same as making music.
uhh, yea, U dunno wat yur talkin about...if tha composer is makin beats using notes, then he is 4 sure makin music...
banging a rock with sticks produces no musical notes.
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To break it down... Alot of you are saying.... "Rappers aren't real musicians because making hip-hop beats isn't that complex." And the notes of classical music were compared to the notes played in "Nothin But A G Thang". I can't argue that. Yeah, composing classical music is more complex.
But I don't care if your making music with sticks and trashcans. If it's dope, it's dope. And if you can make your music sound as good with a stick and a trashcan, as Mozart can with an orchestra; then that makes you better than Mozart.
Secondly, I would put the lyrics of "Stan", "The Way I Am", "Me And My Girlfriend" or anything on Illmatic up against any "poet" of any era.
here is wehre you fuck up:
you assume dre is better cuz he doesn't use a full orchestra.....
neither did mozart.....lol when he was a kid (take yourself back to when you were 8 now) he was creating song structures for an instrument he didn't even own! most of it was all mental....now that right there is GENIUS for a 48 year old to do and beyond the relm of anything for a 8 year old to do! also many other important composers created music without any tools, just their brain. dre and many of these other high end producers have access to millions of dollars and high end equipment that does the tuning, structuring and sound pitch for you. all these other composers lived in a time where they manually had to do all that! also many hip hop producers have access to the world's library of classic beats! meaning if they wanted to make a hot track they just got to remember a hot song they heard on the radio and rip it off! many classical composers then and even now didn't have that ....nor woudl they use that they were the ones creating those scales and forming the templets of "hot beats" many of y'all don't even appreciate this but these people hundreds of years before us created scales that are used today..........that right there infinite makes mozart and J.S. BACH the GOATS of music...period!
in short bethoveen could do what dre is doing easily.....but dre, dj quik, warren g would struggle BAD to do what bethoveen and bach did
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hell yeah muthafuckin these niggaz is musicians, jus abit mo gifted that most, thats why they can be called poets to,lol
check britney, justin, them rockers like linkin park, limp bizkit, all them poppy acts, n shit........korn, and that crazy ass group who got masks on.......damn in that case, niggaz be genius's,lol............y'all lucky eminem holdin it down for y'all.......and justin, all he doin is copyin what micheal did when he was black.......
niggaz be musicians? hell muthafuckin yeahhhhhhhhhh hahaha
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negro please ::)
the only one you're right about is limp bizkit and britney
but when i think about it.......i'd rather hear fred durst ruin a classic Who song than hear shake it like a salt shaker or like a pimp or 90% of wha'ts out in rap right now.
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I'm a keep it simple.
A rapper is not a musician. He is a rapper.
Not all producers are musicians. A producer has the simple job of deciding what the song should sound like. That doesn't involve playing any instruments. However most producers do play insruments.
A musician is a musician. Like Mike Elizondo or Scott Storch.
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negro please ::)
the only one you're right about is limp bizkit and britney
but when i think about it.......i'd rather hear fred durst ruin a classic Who song than hear shake it like a salt shaker or like a pimp or 90% of wha'ts out in rap right now.
yooo whitey, lets keep it simple, whether niggaz be musicians or not, they make wayy better music than y'all with that wack shit y'all come with..........lol@negro pleez..........youz a pussy
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^lol i'm not white, strike one
real black dudes don't type like that ^, only try hard calton banks, nerdy, white washed black dudes. strike two
also if "niggaz" were such superior musicians why is a white boy the best rapper out now, and almost every genre y'all started got out done by a bunch of white dudes. strike three you're out!
white people and black people need to get over themselves.....y'all try to hard to be superior and different from each other , but fail to relise how similar y'all are.
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But I don't care if your making music with sticks and trashcans. If it's dope, it's dope. And if you can make your music sound as good with a stick and a trashcan, as Mozart can with an orchestra; then that makes you better than Mozart.
makin a beat is not the same as making music.
youre so wrong during this thread that your confidence gives my a laugh.
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I'm a keep it simple.
A rapper is not a musician. He is a rapper.
so a singer is no musician?
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But I don't care if your making music with sticks and trashcans. If it's dope, it's dope. And if you can make your music sound as good with a stick and a trashcan, as Mozart can with an orchestra; then that makes you better than Mozart.
makin a beat is not the same as making music.
youre so wrong during this thread that your confidence gives my a laugh.
banging a rock with a stick produces no musical notes. maybe one but it produces no musical range. dumbass. read the whole thread before you pick out bits and pieces.
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I'm a keep it simple.
A rapper is not a musician. He is a rapper.
so a singer is no musician?
your confidence makes me laugh.
a singer is not a rapper. a rapper can be a singer but not when he's rapping.
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singing doesnt envolve more skill or uniqueness than rapping. headnut.
playin a guitar isnt any "better" than makin a beat.
get over it.
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singing doesnt envolve more skill or uniqueness than rapping. headnut.
playin a guitar isnt any "better" than makin a beat.
get over it.
that's like saying playing a piano isn't any 'better' than tapping a pencil on your desk. i don't know what you mean by 'better', but it's damn sure more musical and damn sure more difficult. don't try to tell me that playing a guitar isn't any 'better' than making a beat if you've never tried playing the guitar. and, anyone can rap - not anyone can sing. that's not to say that anyone can write raps, cuz most people can't. but how can you tell me that making a beat isn't any more difficult than making a melody? have you actually tried doing either? i've tried them both and have to say that making a melody is much more difficult than creating a beat.
by the way, let's just stick to the argument instead of calling each other names.
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lmao I got a LOT of fellaz who play guitar quite good and I aint impressed at all--a LOT of homies who can play nirvana and metallica songs... so.. however, I know NOONE who can make a beat that doesnt sound like shit.
PLUS not everybody can rap.. everybody can talk, but not rap. no, certainly not. "talking" offbeat and whack as fuck.. if you consider that rapping, then actually everybody can sing too. PLUS it is more difficult to bring some "melody" in your raps than in your singing. I know by experience.
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lmao I got a LOT of fellaz who play guitar quite good and I aint impressed at all--a LOT of homies who can play nirvana and metallica songs... so.. however, I know NOONE who can make a beat that doesnt sound like shit.
PLUS not everybody can rap.. everybody can talk, but not rap. no, certainly not. "talking" offbeat and whack as fuck.. if you consider that rapping, then actually everybody can sing too. PLUS it is more difficult to bring some "melody" in your raps than in your singing. I know by experience.
true what you said about the 'not everybody can rap, everybody can talk' thing. but we have melody in our voices. i can tell a story, and you can tell by the tone of my voice whether it's a scary story or a funny story or a dumb story. it doesn't take a genius to change the tone of their voice and explain something as if they are actually describing it. if you can tell a story, and make people believe it, you can paint a verbal/mental picture for someone.
but maybe in the end, it is a matter of opinion. i think that playing a guitar is much more difficult and much more time tested than anything ever done on a drum machine or any rap song.
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^lol i'm not white, strike one
real black dudes don't type like that ^, only try hard calton banks, nerdy, white washed black dudes. strike two
also if "niggaz" were such superior musicians why is a white boy the best rapper out now, and almost every genre y'all started got out done by a bunch of white dudes. strike three you're out!
white people and black people need to get over themselves.....y'all try to hard to be superior and different from each other , but fail to relise how similar y'all are.
first of all, wateva colour u are, u dono shit about black people and ya def aint black, secondly that gay strik bullshit.......ummm yeah, 3rdly nah homie, aint nuttin fake about me n my colour, we both sickness, u dono shit about black so how can u speak like im a nerd or sumshit? hahaha, dont make me laugh whitey
oh n ummmmm
best pop star......mj/usher....u choose, black
best rnb-black
best female-black
best rock star- black
best rapper-black
man we can even take this further.......
fastest runner-black
best basketball player-black
best soccer star - arguably black
best cricketer-black
best GOLFER-black
dammmnnnn homie, u dont wanna fuck with us, keep listenin to slipknot and that white nerdy kids bullshit who got no friends, keep puttin on that make up homie, i'll stick to whats real
face it man, niggaz be runnin the game
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first of all, wateva colour u are, u dono shit about black people and ya def aint black, secondly that gay strik bullshit.......ummm yeah, 3rdly nah homie, aint nuttin fake about me n my colour, we both sickness, u dono shit about black so how can u speak like im a nerd or sumshit? hahaha, dont make me laugh whitey
oh n ummmmm
best pop star......mj/usher....u choose, black
best rnb-black
best female-black
best rock star- black
best rapper-black
man we can even take this further.......
fastest runner-black
best basketball player-black
best soccer star - arguably black
best cricketer-black
best GOLFER-black
dammmnnnn homie, u dont wanna fuck with us, keep listenin to slipknot and that white nerdy kids bullshit who got no friends, keep puttin on that make up homie, i'll stick to whats real
face it man, niggaz be runnin the game
goddam why is every single topic always brought down to the level of another race argument? as if people can change their race. always somebody talkin some shit about how their race is so much better than everyone elses, yet didn't do shit to be a part of that race. i'm white. i was born white. and can't (nor do i want to) do a goddam thing to change it.
what does it matter who the best athletes and best entertainers are? as long as they entertain...right? but seriously, some of the examples you gave are just wrong. usher the king of pop? lmao. not a chance. and who's this black rock star you're talking about that's the best? eminem is better than 99 percent of the rap game, if not THE BEST in the game. tiger woods isn't black, he's thai. and best female what? that's just plain stupid to say that the "best female" is black. now let's take it down a notch: the richest man in the world is white. the most powerful man in the world is white. and i'm sure that the majority of people making money off of those black people you mentioned are probably white. and who cares? i sure as fuck don't.
and for dude that said "black people make better music than all ya'll whites" or some shit like that - that is probably one of the stupidest most ignorant statements i ever heard. maybe according you your opinion, but not everybody in the world happens to think that black music is better than white music. as if it matters. it's music. and i'm sure that more than 50 percent of the world thinks rap music (aka - what you call "black music"), is pure shit. i wouldn't be in here if i didn't like rap music, but to say that it's the best form of music is just plain ignorant. as if music is color.
can't we just have a meaningful discussion without it boiling down to race? damn i'm sick of hearing about how great black people are and how great white people are. no one did anything to be black. no one did anything to become white. why must we always talk about it?
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best pop star......mj/usher....u choose, black
lol, mj's whiter than madonna, and IMO usher is no better than Justin Timberlake.....kinda weird a white boy is on the same level as 2 black guys
best rnb
i'll give you this one. i mean b2k are just soooooooo talented
best female-black
well wait one minute here. Christina aguilera is white corn fed, and mariah carey is half white......lol
best rock star- black
if you're trying to say jimi hendrix....lol nice try but he was more cherekee indian than anything....oh and he had white in him btw too. lol shows your ignorance...
best rapper-black
i didn't know eminem had black in him....
man we can even take this further.......
fastest runner-black
well you kinda have to be fast if your from africa.....chasing wild animals for dinner requires just a tad bit of speed
best basketball player-black
yeah michael jordan was black, but i love how you totally dismiss the importance of jerry west, pistol pete, john stockton, rick berry, and lil celtic named larry brid
best soccer star - arguably black
if you said this to someone in south america you'd get your ass stomped
best cricketer-black
you got me on this one.......who cares about cricket anyways
best GOLFER-black
like jimi hendrix....i'm gussing your talking about tiger woods.....who btw is more asian and has white in him aswell
i don't know what you hope to accomplish with all this racial comparison ......but it's kinda stupid....most of the people you named were either biracial or not the best in their things....also i noticed how you didn't put anything up there important like :
best poet
best painter
best scholor
best scientist
best world leader
ect
all of which would be some white europeaner or some asian dude
who gives cares..
black people are no better than white people and white people are no better than blacks
get over yourself
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^lol i'm not white, strike one
real black dudes don't type like that ^, only try hard calton banks, nerdy, white washed black dudes. strike two
also if "niggaz" were such superior musicians why is a white boy the best rapper out now, and almost every genre y'all started got out done by a bunch of white dudes. strike three you're out!
white people and black people need to get over themselves.....y'all try to hard to be superior and different from each other , but fail to relise how similar y'all are.
first of all, wateva colour u are,
or sumshit? hahaha, dont make me laugh whitey
LMAO, he's Mexican.... ;D
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best pop star......mj/usher....u choose, black
lol, mj's whiter than madonna, and IMO usher is no better than Justin Timberlake.....kinda weird a white boy is on the same level as 2 black guys
best rnb
i'll give you this one. i mean b2k are just soooooooo talented
best female-black
well wait one minute here. Christina aguilera is white corn fed, and mariah carey is half white......lol
best rock star- black
if you're trying to say jimi hendrix....lol nice try but he was more cherekee indian than anything....oh and he had white in him btw too. lol shows your ignorance...
best rapper-black
i didn't know eminem had black in him....
man we can even take this further.......
fastest runner-black
well you kinda have to be fast if your from africa.....chasing wild animals for dinner requires just a tad bit of speed
best basketball player-black
yeah michael jordan was black, but i love how you totally dismiss the importance of jerry west, pistol pete, john stockton, rick berry, and lil celtic named larry brid
best soccer star - arguably black
if you said this to someone in south america you'd get your ass stomped
best cricketer-black
you got me on this one.......who cares about cricket anyways
best GOLFER-black
like jimi hendrix....i'm gussing your talking about tiger woods.....who btw is more asian and has white in him aswell
i don't know what you hope to accomplish with all this racial comparison ......but it's kinda stupid....most of the people you named were either biracial or not the best in their things....also i noticed how you didn't put anything up there important like :
best poet
best painter
best scholor
best scientist
best world leader
ect
all of which would be some white europeaner or some asian dude
who gives cares..
black people are no better than white people and white people are no better than blacks
get over yourself
aight lemme break it dwn for ya whitey groupie
best male............mj or usher u choose...........mj won this title back when he was black, u cant deny that
best female - alicia keys......pleez dont compare aguilera in the same sentece, but i giv u one thang, she gotta good vioce
best rnb- we both know kid lovin r kelly runnin this shit
best hiphop - imo 2 pac.......only white kids think eminems greatest and groupies
BEST PRODUCER.......DR DRE/QUINCY, u choose,
homie niggaz be runnin muzik man!
keep listenin that wack shit u rock to
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havent thought lyrical g is that ignorant! lol!
maybe corleone just got on his nerves too much
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havent thought lyrical g is that ignorant! lol!
maybe corleone just got on his nerves too much
haha thats the first time ive been called ignorant on wcc...i think
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havent thought lyrical g is that ignorant! lol!
maybe corleone just got on his nerves too much
haha thats the first time ive been called ignorant on wcc...i think
yea you havent been
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havent thought lyrical g is that ignorant! lol!
maybe corleone just got on his nerves too much
Maybe you haven't read his posts before now.. :P
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havent thought lyrical g is that ignorant! lol!
maybe corleone just got on his nerves too much
Maybe you haven't read his posts before now.. :P
For real. Lyrical G makes me laugh, he's always like "Blacks are better than White, but....I'm not a racist..." And using the word "Nigga" so loosely & frequently shows that you have little respect for yourself. That's right I said it. Blacks who use that word need to check themselves.
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aight lemme break it dwn for ya whitey groupie
best male............mj or usher u choose...........mj won this title back when he was black, u cant deny that
yeah michael jackson at one time had black skin, but he's always acted like a white dude...i love michael and i'll admit that he's been white washed
best female - alicia keys......pleez dont compare aguilera in the same sentece, but i giv u one thang, she gotta good vioce....
LMAO lllllllloooooooollllll oh goooooood alicia keys is part white and her black dad has indian in him making her more white than black lllllllllllllooooooooooollllll LMAO
best rnb- we both know kid lovin r kelly runnin this shit
you might of had a point when r kelly was releasing songs like "your body's calling me" but i'm sorry r kelly is realeasing crap nowadays!
best hiphop - imo 2 pac.......only white kids think eminems greatest and groupies
no shit 2pac is the GOAT......but he ain't a current artist. the best current artist is eminem.
BEST PRODUCER.......DR DRE/QUINCY, u choose,
naw actually the current best producer is mutt lang and of all time it's the classics like bethoveen/ J. S. Bach
keep listenin that wack shit u rock to
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havent thought lyrical g is that ignorant! lol!
maybe corleone just got on his nerves too much
Maybe you haven't read his posts before now.. :P
For real. Lyrical G makes me laugh, he's always like "Blacks are better than White, but....I'm not a racist..." And using the word "Nigga" so loosely & frequently shows that you have little respect for yourself. That's right I said it. Blacks who use that word need to check themselves.
that theres real touchin dawg, fo real
oh n lol@black who say the word nigga need th check themselves,
man u aint fully black until you said the word nigga atleast once in ya life, u aint black until u seen a hood movie, funny shit buts its truth!
peace!
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havent thought lyrical g is that ignorant! lol!
maybe corleone just got on his nerves too much
Maybe you haven't read his posts before now.. :P
For real. Lyrical G makes me laugh, he's always like "Blacks are better than White, but....I'm not a racist..." And using the word "Nigga" so loosely & frequently shows that you have little respect for yourself. That's right I said it. Blacks who use that word need to check themselves.
first racial comment from you that doesnt upset me. props. doesnt it feel good? keep it up then.
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aight lemme break it dwn for ya whitey groupie
best male............mj or usher u choose...........mj won this title back when he was black, u cant deny that
yeah michael jackson at one time had black skin, but he's always acted like a white dude...i love michael and i'll admit that he's been white washed
best female - alicia keys......pleez dont compare aguilera in the same sentece, but i giv u one thang, she gotta good vioce....
LMAO lllllllloooooooollllll oh goooooood alicia keys is part white and her black dad has indian in him making her more white than black lllllllllllllooooooooooollllll LMAO
best rnb- we both know kid lovin r kelly runnin this shit
you might of had a point when r kelly was releasing songs like "your body's calling me" but i'm sorry r kelly is realeasing crap nowadays!
best hiphop - imo 2 pac.......only white kids think eminems greatest and groupies
no shit 2pac is the GOAT......but he ain't a current artist. the best current artist is eminem.
BEST PRODUCER.......DR DRE/QUINCY, u choose,
naw actually the current best producer is mutt lang and of all time it's the classics like bethoveen/ J. S. Bach
keep listenin that wack shit u rock to
yo well i tink its fair to say me n u got bare different tase in muzik fo sho
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its funny how people like mj, alicia keys, tiger woods suddenly is being classed as "white" when it benefits the argument
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to reply to the original topic... here's a quote from a site:
Are rappers musicians? Sure, same as drummers and percussionists. Everyone
likes to make fun about drummers not being "real" musicians, but as a bass
player, I know they are. I admire and respect what they do, and playing
bass with a good drummer is fun, easy, and more musical than playing with a
not-so-skilled drummer. Rappers fall in the same class, and whether or not
they rap over sampled music or a live band makes no difference. Singers who
sing to pre-recorded tapes are still making music, right?
http://www.amstadt.com/tblarchive/VOL1999/300-400/bl303.html
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havent thought lyrical g is that ignorant! lol!
maybe corleone just got on his nerves too much
Maybe you haven't read his posts before now.. :P
For real. Lyrical G makes me laugh, he's always like "Blacks are better than White, but....I'm not a racist..." And using the word "Nigga" so loosely & frequently shows that you have little respect for yourself. That's right I said it. Blacks who use that word need to check themselves.
that theres real touchin dawg, fo real
oh n lol@black who say the word nigga need th check themselves,
man u aint fully black until you said the word nigga atleast once in ya life, u aint black until u seen a hood movie, funny shit buts its truth!
peace!
So you aren't Black if you don't say a word which was given to you by White slavemasters they used to disrespect you? That's absolutely ridiculous.
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homie its kool, u a couple of shades to light to understand maybe
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homie its kool, u a couple of shades to light to understand maybe
That's maybe because I am White. I don't go around calling my White friends "crackers" so I don't understand my Blacks call each other that. I've had Blacks call me that. I don't understand.
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homie its kool, u a couple of shades to light to understand maybe
That's maybe because I am White. I don't go around calling my White friends "crackers" so I don't understand my Blacks call each other that. I've had Blacks call me that. I don't understand.
homie its kool....i could explain to ya but i dont really see the need, i aint racist, i dont go round sayin crackers to white dudes, i got some white friends even though my whole hood is basically all black ppl and like i dont think blacks are better than whites, i feel we should be equal, im jus sayin, that in most cases imo...in music n shit, the ppl who i feel to be the sickest or are the sickest, are black, and im proud of that, if that makes me racist, fair enough......i jus understand reality n how life really is on blacks.....but whites wouldnt feel what i gotta say about that so leave it......and the whole blacks sayin niggaz thing......i could explain why we say that, but theres no point
peace
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first of all, wateva colour u are, u dono shit about black people and ya def aint black, secondly that gay strik bullshit.......ummm yeah, 3rdly nah homie, aint nuttin fake about me n my colour, we both sickness, u dono shit about black so how can u speak like im a nerd or sumshit? hahaha, dont make me laugh whitey
oh n ummmmm
best pop star......mj/usher....u choose, black
best rnb-black
best female-black
best rock star- black
best rapper-black
man we can even take this further.......
fastest runner-black
best basketball player-black
best soccer star - arguably black
best cricketer-black
best GOLFER-black
dammmnnnn homie, u dont wanna fuck with us, keep listenin to slipknot and that white nerdy kids bullshit who got no friends, keep puttin on that make up homie, i'll stick to whats real
face it man, niggaz be runnin the game
goddam why is every single topic always brought down to the level of another race argument? as if people can change their race. always somebody talkin some shit about how their race is so much better than everyone elses, yet didn't do shit to be a part of that race. i'm white. i was born white. and can't (nor do i want to) do a goddam thing to change it.
what does it matter who the best athletes and best entertainers are? as long as they entertain...right? but seriously, some of the examples you gave are just wrong. usher the king of pop? lmao. not a chance. and who's this black rock star you're talking about that's the best? eminem is better than 99 percent of the rap game, if not THE BEST in the game. tiger woods isn't black, he's thai. and best female what? that's just plain stupid to say that the "best female" is black. now let's take it down a notch: the richest man in the world is white. the most powerful man in the world is white. and i'm sure that the majority of people making money off of those black people you mentioned are probably white. and who cares? i sure as fuck don't.
and for dude that said "black people make better music than all ya'll whites" or some shit like that - that is probably one of the stupidest most ignorant statements i ever heard. maybe according you your opinion, but not everybody in the world happens to think that black music is better than white music. as if it matters. it's music. and i'm sure that more than 50 percent of the world thinks rap music (aka - what you call "black music"), is pure shit. i wouldn't be in here if i didn't like rap music, but to say that it's the best form of music is just plain ignorant. as if music is color.
can't we just have a meaningful discussion without it boiling down to race? damn i'm sick of hearing about how great black people are and how great white people are. no one did anything to be black. no one did anything to become white. why must we always talk about it?
did anybody read this?
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^^^i cant asnwer for others but i didnt
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I personally consider a few rappers as musicians...example listen to TAlib Kweli - Reflection Eternal and Quality album
ID LIEK OT ADD dJ QUICK ALSO
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black people are no better than white people and white people are no better than blacks
I noticed you left open the possibility for Asians to be better than both. ;D
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black people are no better than white people and white people are no better than blacks
I noticed you left open the possibility for Asians to be better than both. ;D
maybe because he and nobody cares about asians, that is... just a thought
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its funny how people like mj, alicia keys, tiger woods suddenly is being classed as "white" when it benefits the argument
and visa versa ..... ::)
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to reply to the original topic... here's a quote from a site:
Are rappers musicians? Sure, same as drummers and percussionists. Everyone
likes to make fun about drummers not being "real" musicians, but as a bass
player, I know they are. I admire and respect what they do, and playing
bass with a good drummer is fun, easy, and more musical than playing with a
not-so-skilled drummer. Rappers fall in the same class, and whether or not
they rap over sampled music or a live band makes no difference. Singers who
sing to pre-recorded tapes are still making music, right?
http://www.amstadt.com/tblarchive/VOL1999/300-400/bl303.html
but what are his reasons? because it's fun and easy? i don't get what his reasons are...
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Lemme just say that rapping isn't as easy as people think it is...
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True , but then again its much harder being a singer(a good one) then a good rapper . Rappers are not musicians !
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Well, I can sing, and rap, so I don't really think either is very hard.
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oh n ummmmm
best pop star......mj/usher....u choose, black
Yup
best rnb-black
I guess that would be Luther or R. Kelly, so right again
best female-black
Best female what? Singer? Maybe the most famous female singer right now is black, but she's not the best... she's not the best out now, and she's not the best of all time. Both of those are white women.
best rock star- black
Of all time? I guess you mean Hendrix, which is a joke. Hendrix was great, but he wasn't the greatest guitarist, and he isn't even close to the greatest 'rock star'. Those are all titles reserved for white men like Eric Clapton, Stevie Ray Vaughn, and such.
best rapper-black
Eminem will go down as the 'best rapper', and he's white, in a music blacks created.
fastest runner-black
O.K.
best basketball player-black
Yes
best soccer star - arguably black
Why, because he's not white? LOL he's brown.
best cricketer-black
o.k.
best GOLFER-black
Not yet. He's the best now but not the best of all time, yet.
dammmnnnn homie, u dont wanna fuck with us, keep listenin to slipknot and that white nerdy kids bullshit who got no friends, keep puttin on that make up homie, i'll stick to whats real, face it man, niggaz be runnin the game
'niggaz' neva gonna be running the game as long as 'niggaz' like you keep calling your fellow 'niggaz' 'niggaz'... nigga.
You forgot a few, too.
Best Baseball player - White as a fuck. Arms like tree trunks, looks like a roman god.
Best actor - White.
Best classical musician - white
Best classical composer - white
Best country artist - white
Best football player - white
President of the United States - white
Owner of every bank in America - white
Owner of your apartment complex - white
etc. etc. etc., since you want to 'take it to anotha level'.
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^^^lol@vanilla ice,why y'all white dudes still on the "nigga" tip............u dont see me callin y'all crackaz n shit.................face it dawg, my post imo was real..........yours was weak............country music!?!? president?!?!?,............ahahahaha, ofcourse they gon be white............man this post is old as fuck, what with these bustaz bringin back old posts...............oh and the only cats who gonna consider eminem to be the best rapper ever are gonna be white ppl, he simply aint the best out their, livin or of all time, simple as that, i aint hatin cuz his white, i got his cds n shit, i think the mmlp is a sick joint to bump, but he aint the best no doubt....only with whites
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lol, trauma has some good points, eminem is not the "best rapper"
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i have black friends who beleive eminem is the best does that mean hes the best? Its an opinion he could be the best to one person and the worst to another.