West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Javier on March 24, 2010, 11:06:26 PM
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huge deficit? WHERE?! We could have avoided a whole lot of fucking problems, if more people were outspoken about it. But now, people are crying all over the place about what the CBO reported.
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From what I understand the tax cuts are mostly not aimed at the lower class and middle class, true or false?
Tax receipts are going to be far less because of a drop in income
The deficit continues to widen because the federal reserve continues to rampantly print money
Unemployment has exploded by millions
The economy is falling apart, banks have been given trillions of future tax payer dollars, so obviously the deficit is going to rise hugely.
You are a bit late to be sounding off about this now, the horse has already bolted
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I'm not late at all. The libertarian crowd was very fucking quiet during the Bush tax cuts, now you see them questioning the CBO left and right. Where were they during the Bush Tax Cuts?
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You haven't answered my question, so I will ask again, those tax cuts were mostly not aimed at middle class and lower class right? so if that's the case, then no, it's not surprising there been no welcome improvements as a result of that. In fact I will bet my bottom dollar, that taxes have risen and income has fallen during the last 7 years.
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It doesn't matter who they were aimed at, the point is that the CBO made a report saying that it was going to cause a huge deficit. Nobody questioned them, but now people are wah wah ing all over the place because the CBO said that the health care law is going to save money.
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And also, the reason California is in such a mess is because of Prop 78 which created a cap on Property taxes. We've been fucked over so hard because of that shit, but of course not a word from people that think taxes are the devil's work.
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You are marginalising issues instead of looking at the bigger issues, the glass steagalaz act, the emergence of the derivatives market, the casino banks deliberately destroying the very thing they have built it in order to profit further and yet you are blaming it on a property tax cap now? I don't think you will find many people that supported that tax cuts brought in under George Bush because they were not tax cuts that would benefit most people. So therefore I am confused about the purpose of your original post, since the implication seemed to be that tax cuts are somehow bad? The tax cuts have not worked because they were designed to not benefit the majority and yet you are suggesting they were welcomed when I would suggest from what I have read, that most people did not welcome them because they were just another sweetheart crony deal.
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It really isn't up for discussion, Prop 78 is the main reason California is where it is today.
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It really isn't up for discussion, Prop 78 is the main reason California is where it is today.
No the simple fact is that California spends more than it takes in. Everything else is just a cause to that effect. So just as much as no increased property taxes is a cause, so is increases in spending. And property tax increases have been sidestepped by Mello Roos taxes.
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A property tax cap is not a tax cut anyway, so the title of this thread is even more baffling.
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A property tax cap is not a tax cut anyway, so the title of this thread is even more baffling.
I was adding something else to my point.
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It really isn't up for discussion, Prop 78 is the main reason California is where it is today.
No the simple fact is that California spends more than it takes in. Everything else is just a cause to that effect. So just as much as no increased property taxes is a cause, so is increases in spending. And property tax increases have been sidestepped by Mello Roos taxes.
And guess why the "takes in" part of the equation is lacking? Because of Prop 78.
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It really isn't up for discussion, Prop 78 is the main reason California is where it is today.
No the simple fact is that California spends more than it takes in. Everything else is just a cause to that effect. So just as much as no increased property taxes is a cause, so is increases in spending. And property tax increases have been sidestepped by Mello Roos taxes.
And guess why the "takes in" part of the equation is lacking? Because of Prop 78.
I may be wrong but are you referring to prop 13? And that is just one of many reasons the budget is fucked. I'm not sure how you can single out one event. Every dollar spend has the same effect.
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people spoke up about this....but as usual the gov't dont listen....the gov't dont care and its a business..simple as that
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It really isn't up for discussion, Prop 78 is the main reason California is where it is today.
No the simple fact is that California spends more than it takes in. Everything else is just a cause to that effect. So just as much as no increased property taxes is a cause, so is increases in spending. And property tax increases have been sidestepped by Mello Roos taxes.
And guess why the "takes in" part of the equation is lacking? Because of Prop 78.
I may be wrong but are you referring to prop 13? And that is just one of many reasons the budget is fucked. I'm not sure how you can single out one event. Every dollar spend has the same effect.
Yeah, sorry about that it was passed in 1978 that's why I got confused. Prop 13 also needed the state congress to pass any raise in taxes to have a 2/3rd vote. Recently, it was changed in 2000 but that still has caused a lot of problems. It's the root of the problem. Why should any program that needs government funding should suffer because of the taxpayers revolt in the 70s?
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Cutting taxes leads to increased economic growth, because you are incentivizing work and investment.
Go back and look at total federal revenues during the Bush years. Revenues continiually climbed up until the mortgage industry collapse. The Bush tax cuts worked.
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California has some of the highest inidividual income tax, corporate income tax, and sales taxes in the entire United States. If you are going to tell me that their massive budget deficit is the result of not enough taxes then you are a moron.
The problem is spending. Liberals have single handedly destroyed the California state government.
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Cutting taxes leads to increased economic growth, because you are incentivizing work and investment.
Go back and look at total federal revenues during the Bush years. Revenues continiually climbed up until the mortgage industry collapse. The Bush tax cuts worked.
Ah huh, I believe the CBO over what you or your gods say. Go look that up. Go look up the fact that the tax cuts had very little to even nothing to do with the increase in the federal revenue. LOOK THAT UP.
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California has some of the highest inidividual income tax, corporate income tax, and sales taxes in the entire United States. If you are going to tell me that their massive budget deficit is the result of not enough taxes then you are a moron.
The problem is spending. Liberals have single handedly destroyed the California state government.
Call me a fucking moron all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Prop 13 has fucked California right in the ass, it of course isn't the sole reason but it is a major one. I guess we should just ignore the growth of freeways, higher education, prisons, and school districts that have been missing funds for decades because of Prop 13. Because you do know that population keeps getting bigger right? Or this something new for you? The money was there one day and gone the next year. I guess the solution is to stop building freeways, get rid of schools?
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Ah huh, I believe the CBO over what you or your gods say. Go look that up. Go look up the fact that the tax cuts had very little to even nothing to do with the increase in the federal revenue. LOOK THAT UP.
Why don't you look up DEEZ NUUUUUUUUUUTZ.
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Call me a fucking moron all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Prop 13 has fucked California right in the ass, it of course isn't the sole reason but it is a major one. I guess we should just ignore the growth of freeways, higher education, prisons, and school districts that have been missing funds for decades because of Prop 13. Because you do know that population keeps getting bigger right? Or this something new for you? The money was there one day and gone the next year. I guess the solution is to stop building freeways, get rid of schools?
There are states such as Texas and Florida that have no state income tax. And they have the budgets relatively in order. Are you going to tell me that those states don't have roads, bridges, schools, prisons, etc?
Just admit the fact that Democrats have destroyed California with their out of control spending.
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Ah huh, I believe the CBO over what you or your gods say. Go look that up. Go look up the fact that the tax cuts had very little to even nothing to do with the increase in the federal revenue. LOOK THAT UP.
Why don't you look up DEEZ NUUUUUUUUUUTZ.
I did, they're not there. Now go play with your Palin poster, probably might give you some balls.
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Call me a fucking moron all you want, it doesn't change the fact that Prop 13 has fucked California right in the ass, it of course isn't the sole reason but it is a major one. I guess we should just ignore the growth of freeways, higher education, prisons, and school districts that have been missing funds for decades because of Prop 13. Because you do know that population keeps getting bigger right? Or this something new for you? The money was there one day and gone the next year. I guess the solution is to stop building freeways, get rid of schools?
There are states such as Texas and Florida that have no state income tax. And they have the budgets relatively in order. Are you going to tell me that those states don't have roads, bridges, schools, prisons, etc?
Just admit the fact that Democrats have destroyed California with their out of control spending.
Just admit that you don't know shit about the politics in California, because it is clearly showing.
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damn javier goin in...be easy dogg...lol
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You are marginalising issues instead of looking at the bigger issues, the glass steagalaz act, the emergence of the derivatives market, the casino banks deliberately destroying the very thing they have built it in order to profit further and yet you are blaming it on a property tax cap now?
By the way, I definitely do understand the bigger issue. The thing is, California might have been in a better state to handle this crisis caused by the corporate douchebags if Prop 13 didn't pass. That's why I'm making the connection.
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I won this debate.
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What debate? I didn't know your misinformation about California should have even been considered to be part of the debate.
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My bad man my last comment about the property tax not being a tax cut was a bit facetious. However I don't think you can cite the tax cuts made as proof that it causes more problems when the tax cuts were never given to the overwhelming majority of people so that is why I think your original point doesn't have substance to it. I am not saying I disagree with the premise of what you are saying, no the tax cuts haven't worked but they weren't meant to work for the average joe. If you can illustrate where the taxes gained popular support outside of republican fanaticism then I will gladly stand corrected but I have never seen it.
Also I have no idea how much it costs to house, educate, give state benefits and provide free health care to illegal immigrants, but it must surely factor into the huge costs?. I don't know the exact costs but also, how much is enough tax? surely as people are struggling, some in desperate dire straits, then more taxes only compounds the problem and whatever immediate benefit there is to tax revenue is offset by the fall in spending and indeed the fall in future taxes.
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wait virtuoso .....what are you sayin as far as the taxes....whos side are you on? lol
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My bad man my last comment about the property tax not being a tax cut was a bit facetious. However I don't think you can cite the tax cuts made as proof that it causes more problems when the tax cuts were never given to the overwhelming majority of people so that is why I think your original point doesn't have substance to it. I am not saying I disagree with the premise of what you are saying, no the tax cuts haven't worked but they weren't meant to work for the average joe. If you can illustrate where the taxes gained popular support outside of republican fanaticism then I will gladly stand corrected but I have never seen it.
Also I have no idea how much it costs to house, educate, give state benefits and provide free health care to illegal immigrants, but it must surely factor into the huge costs?. I don't know the exact costs but also, how much is enough tax? surely as people are struggling, some in desperate dire straits, then more taxes only compounds the problem and whatever immediate benefit there is to tax revenue is offset by the fall in spending and indeed the fall in future taxes.
My main point of the the thread is that the CBO clearly predicted deficits after the Iraq War started and tax cuts were announced. It really doesn't matter to who it was for, point was that tax cuts were being made during the Iraq War. A war that is paid by tax payer's money. My beef is that there were hardly any voice of dissent when the CBO released their numbers. Now the CBO released the numbers about the health care law that was signed recently, those people are now up in arms about it. Where were they in 2003-2004? We needed that voice. Our voice doesn't fucking matter anyway, corporate democrats and republicans have hijacked our country.
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Pre-Ronald Reagan, the US economy was not facing these boom and bust situation. There was a time, during our most prosperous time from the 1940's-1970's, where we taxed the rich from 70%-91%. When JFK lowed taxes, he lowed the rich taxes to 73%, and then Reagan lowed them all the way to 35%. It wasn't until Reagan that we had these out of control deficits and boom/bust economy. When Reagan left, the deficit became a huge deal. George Bush Sr., a Republican, had to raise taxes to manage the economy. Bill Clinton lowed poor taxes, but raised the rich taxes again. Then George W. Bush lowers rich taxes and we again see deficits start to rise, and Obama is going to let the tax cuts expire, and along with the health care bill expect to see the deficit drop. But oh well, maybe Republicans just don't know how to run government. As the old saying goes, Republicans run on government doesn't work, then they get elected and prove their point right.
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Pre-Ronald Reagan, the US economy was not facing these boom and bust situation. There was a time, during our most prosperous time from the 1940's-1970's, where we taxed the rich from 70%-91%. When JFK lowed taxes, he lowed the rich taxes to 73%, and then Reagan lowed them all the way to 35%. It wasn't until Reagan that we had these out of control deficits and boom/bust economy. When Reagan left, the deficit became a huge deal. George Bush Sr., a Republican, had to raise taxes to manage the economy. Bill Clinton lowed poor taxes, but raised the rich taxes again. Then George W. Bush lowers rich taxes and we again see deficits start to rise, and Obama is going to let the tax cuts expire, and along with the health care bill expect to see the deficit drop. But oh well, maybe Republicans just don't know how to run government. As the old saying goes, Republicans run on government doesn't work, then they get elected and prove their point right.
That is amazing logic. Please explain why california has some of the highest taxes in the entire U.S. and has a massive budget deficit the likes of which has never been seen. I believe the last I saw it was around $40 billion.
P.S. Obama's health care bill won't bring down the defecit, it is going to blow it up.
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Pre-Ronald Reagan, the US economy was not facing these boom and bust situation. There was a time, during our most prosperous time from the 1940's-1970's, where we taxed the rich from 70%-91%. When JFK lowed taxes, he lowed the rich taxes to 73%, and then Reagan lowed them all the way to 35%. It wasn't until Reagan that we had these out of control deficits and boom/bust economy. When Reagan left, the deficit became a huge deal. George Bush Sr., a Republican, had to raise taxes to manage the economy. Bill Clinton lowed poor taxes, but raised the rich taxes again. Then George W. Bush lowers rich taxes and we again see deficits start to rise, and Obama is going to let the tax cuts expire, and along with the health care bill expect to see the deficit drop. But oh well, maybe Republicans just don't know how to run government. As the old saying goes, Republicans run on government doesn't work, then they get elected and prove their point right.
That is amazing logic. Please explain why california has some of the highest taxes in the entire U.S. and has a massive budget deficit the likes of which has never been seen. I believe the last I saw it was around $40 billion.
P.S. Obama's health care bill won't bring down the defecit, it is going to blow it up.
1. California is in a situation where it's tax base can't support it's population. California right now is the most populated state at 37,000,000 and right now it's losing jobs like you Ron Paul loses his marbles. This though comes after many many years of Republican governors. For years California was falling apart, as there was no increased spending to keep up with the population but there was a balanced budget. One day people woke up and said, our state is fucked and elected Grey Davis. Then they said, we are in debt, so they elected Arnold and then the problem got much worst.
The Health Care bill will increase taxes and that is how it will pay for it's self. One top of that there will be fines if you can afford health care but wouldn't buy it.
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I won this debate.
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I won this debate.
WTF... I got in the last word... meaning I won... of course with my new Illuminati powers given to me by B. Hussein Obama himself, I could just delete your post saying I won this debate and actually make you debate. I'm the Illuminati, don't test.
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I won this debate.
WTF... I got in the last word... meaning I won... of course with my new Illuminati powers given to me by B. Hussein Obama himself, I could just delete your post saying I won this debate and actually make you debate. I'm the Illuminati, don't test.
I guess I won this debate.
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lol
I won this debate.
WTF... I got in the last word... meaning I won... of course with my new Illuminati powers given to me by B. Hussein Obama himself, I could just delete your post saying I won this debate and actually make you debate. I'm the Illuminati, don't test.
I guess I won this debate.
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OK fine, you won.
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so does anyone disagree that my world view is incredibly accurate?
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so does anyone disagree that my world view is incredibly accurate?
i won this debate.
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1. California is in a situation where it's tax base can't support it's population. California right now is the most populated state at 37,000,000 and right now it's losing jobs like you Ron Paul loses his marbles. This though comes after many many years of Republican governors. For years California was falling apart, as there was no increased spending to keep up with the population but there was a balanced budget. One day people woke up and said, our state is fucked and elected Grey Davis. Then they said, we are in debt, so they elected Arnold and then the problem got much worst.
The Health Care bill will increase taxes and that is how it will pay for it's self. One top of that there will be fines if you can afford health care but wouldn't buy it.
LOL. So you're strategy is blaming everything on the Republicans, I see.
For the last 10+ years (pre-recession) there has been a steady increase in California's revenue. Out of control spending ran up the debt and no one wants to give up money to cut the budget. California's problem today is that Schwarzenegger is Republican and the state politicians are mostly Democratic, so no nobody can agree on anything. Now we have these half-ass solutions that don't solve anything, just delay the problems.
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1. California is in a situation where it's tax base can't support it's population. California right now is the most populated state at 37,000,000 and right now it's losing jobs like you Ron Paul loses his marbles. This though comes after many many years of Republican governors. For years California was falling apart, as there was no increased spending to keep up with the population but there was a balanced budget. One day people woke up and said, our state is fucked and elected Grey Davis. Then they said, we are in debt, so they elected Arnold and then the problem got much worst.
The Health Care bill will increase taxes and that is how it will pay for it's self. One top of that there will be fines if you can afford health care but wouldn't buy it.
LOL. So you're strategy is blaming everything on the Republicans, I see.
For the last 10+ years (pre-recession) there has been a steady increase in California's revenue. Out of control spending ran up the debt and no one wants to give up money to cut the budget. California's problem today is that Schwarzenegger is Republican and the state politicians are mostly Democratic, so no nobody can agree on anything. Now we have these half-ass solutions that don't solve anything, just delay the problems.
Governor being a Republican and Legislators being democrat isn't the biggest problem. The problem is the super majority and Arnold wanting to run the state like a dictatorship. He's been quoted in saying, it would be much easier if the Democrats weren't there to just do what he wants. lmao ok Arnie. Even with a Democrat as Governor, it would be really hard to pass important legislation to help California.
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OK fine, you won.
damn, that's too easy. I am kind of sad. :-\
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so does anyone disagree that my world view is incredibly accurate?
i won this debate.
wtf, what you post in this thread?
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so does anyone disagree that my world view is incredibly accurate?
i won this debate.
wtf, what you post in this thread?
i'm afraid the debate already finished :laugh:
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1. California is in a situation where it's tax base can't support it's population. California right now is the most populated state at 37,000,000 and right now it's losing jobs like you Ron Paul loses his marbles. This though comes after many many years of Republican governors. For years California was falling apart, as there was no increased spending to keep up with the population but there was a balanced budget. One day people woke up and said, our state is fucked and elected Grey Davis. Then they said, we are in debt, so they elected Arnold and then the problem got much worst.
Then how come Texas can support its population (24 million) despite having a smaller economy and less taxes?
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1. California is in a situation where it's tax base can't support it's population. California right now is the most populated state at 37,000,000 and right now it's losing jobs like you Ron Paul loses his marbles. This though comes after many many years of Republican governors. For years California was falling apart, as there was no increased spending to keep up with the population but there was a balanced budget. One day people woke up and said, our state is fucked and elected Grey Davis. Then they said, we are in debt, so they elected Arnold and then the problem got much worst.
Then how come Texas can support its population (24 million) despite having a smaller economy and less taxes?
Their property taxes are the way California was Pre 1978 which is the main source of funding for the local government including the school system. Also, for many years California has received less bang for their buck in terms of taxes while Texas and other "red" states received more than what they actually paid for.
From my understanding, they have one of the worst public education systems in the nation as well. Their teachers are paid less than the national average. Also, you have to keep in mind that the biggest cities California are close to the Pacific Ocean, so the cost of living is much higher here than in Texas.
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Texas has no state income tax, a relatively balanced budget, economic growth, and a low unemployment rate compaerd to the rest of the country. It is proof that conservatism works.
California, on the other hand, .........
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I dont see why anybody would pay attention to what C-Bo says about economics.