West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on May 22, 2007, 12:17:49 PM
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Lakers- one of the worst seasons in franchise history=1st round playoff exit
Suns- greatest season in franchise history=2nd round playoff exit
The Suns' backs are currently pinned against the wall. People are starting to realize that they can't win it all with that style. Where can they go from here? Can they build on top of what they have? I mean, they have the perfect players for their style of play, what can they possibly do?
The Lakers, on the other hand, have been considered huge disappointments, and how much worse are they really? Take a look at the western conference finals. The Spurs and the Jazz... We handed both of those teams their asses in the regular season. WE'RE NOT AS BAD AS OUR CURRENT STATE MAKES IT SEEM!
Who is really gunna be more disappointed in the off-season? At least the Lakers have something to work with. The Suns' best bet is trading Marion, as rumors have indicated they're looking to do. Who do you think is currently in better shape for the future?
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Do you enjoy being called a dick ryder? Becasue you're just handing haters ammunition.
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When things aren't going good for ya, there's always memories :D
Do you enjoy being called a dick ryder? Becasue you're just handing haters ammunition.
Bloaw bloaw
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Do you enjoy being called a dick ryder? Becasue you're just handing haters ammunition.
At least I'm making sense with my arguments...I'm not afraid to speak the real like some "Laker fans". We ain't Warrior fans homie...Now go back to hiding.
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When things aren't going good for ya, there's always memories :D
Do you enjoy being called a dick ryder? Becasue you're just handing haters ammunition.
Bloaw bloaw
So you disagree? Suns are in better shape? They can just come back next year with the same players and feel great about themselves? At least the Lakers have something to build on...What are the Suns gunna do? Bring back the same roster, dominate the regular season, and play their regular season game when playoff time comes, once again... ::)
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Nash is never goin to win a ring. Fuck Bell. I can't wait till next season.
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The Lakers will get torn apart this off-season homie. The later you deal with the future the more it will shock you.
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The Lakers will get torn apart this off-season homie. The later you deal with the future the more it will shock you.
What?
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That depends on how our off-season goes... the Suns aren't going to win a title, playing this type of B-Ball.. whereas we'll see if the Lakers organization is able to put us in a contender position..
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The Lakers will get torn apart this off-season homie. The later you deal with the future the more it will shock you.
What?
Some significant players will have to go.
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How many more threads are you going to make crying about the Suns?
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^^I'm making comparisons, "huge Amare Stoudemire fan".
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one step ahead? i don't see it. it is most likely the suns will perform equally well if they maintain their roster. also lets note that they almost came back muliple times and beat the spurs this series, they at no real point were embarrassed out of that series. the spurs are getting older every day and i see this as probably their last hurrah, the suns still have some pep in their step, all they need is a few defensive pieces and they'll be fine, they have a team. players want to be there. it's an attrative place.
the lakers have kobe. we're still running around trying to find out what we want to do. we're still trying to find out what players we want to surround him with. kobe has had this team for three years, and we're yet to win a playoff series, shaq's lakers won the title in his fourth year, time is running out on kobe's legacy. it's do or die for kobe and the lakers right now.
we're still a long way away from being up there with the suns. we're more than a few steps BEHIND them at this point. true they only advanced one more round than us, but look who they faced, the spurs....the sleeping giants. if they face the mavs/jazz/rockets/golden state/nuggets the suns go to the Conf. finals. it's all contingency, that's why you fight in the regular season to get the best possible match up possible. the mavs fought hard but ended up with the worst match up in the warriors. the suns worked hard and got a good match up for them in the lakers. you can't say the lakers are a step ahead when they finished 7th, ended the regular season very badly , and fell hard in the 1st round. now we're in limbo trying to figure what other 11 guys to surround kobe with. it's bullshit. it's a one man show at this point. thank god jeanie has the bomb pussy or we'd probably still be without a coach like phil jackson. i'm telling you i really hope jerry west comes back to the lakers and replaces mitch, cuz seriously what have we done in the past three years to progress the organization?
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whats up wit the lakers money situation? are they working wit much this off season because the reality is that they only really have 2 players (bynum and odom) that have any real trade value
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^^^^ just the MLE probably used for a PG... then either Lamar or Andrew +changes for an all star
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from what im hearing this years draft should be pretty deep as well
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I think for Phoenix this draft and the position where they land in it will decide alot. if they get inbetween a number 4-8 they are going to get a hell of a player in the draft. Alot of big men in this draft. The next 2 1st round picks Dantoni NEEDS a bench. You are not going to win with a 7,8 man rotation in the finals, you need a solid bench. A backup point guard and center. If you are not going to keep the picks or are in talks of trading, package the picks or make the picks and get a Garnett or O'Neal or whatever they want. I think depending on what their conditional pick from Atlanta is will decide what they do. 3 1st round picks is big time for the Suns. It will decide whether they will be just a good team or one that is committed to winning it all. DRAFT LOTTERY SELECTION TONIGHT!!!
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The Suns have a good shot next year if they keep the team together. If Amare played game 5, who knows they might have won. and in game 7 anything can happen. Dallas proved that last year against the Spurs..
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one step ahead? i don't see it. it is most likely the suns will perform equally well if they maintain their roster. also lets note that they almost came back muliple times and beat the spurs this series, they at no real point were embarrassed out of that series. the spurs are getting older every day and i see this as probably their last hurrah, the suns still have some pep in their step, all they need is a few defensive pieces and they'll be fine, they have a team. players want to be there. it's an attrative place.
the lakers have kobe. we're still running around trying to find out what we want to do. we're still trying to find out what players we want to surround him with. kobe has had this team for three years, and we're yet to win a playoff series, shaq's lakers won the title in his fourth year, time is running out on kobe's legacy. it's do or die for kobe and the lakers right now.
we're still a long way away from being up there with the suns. we're more than a few steps BEHIND them at this point. true they only advanced one more round than us, but look who they faced, the spurs....the sleeping giants. if they face the mavs/jazz/rockets/golden state/nuggets the suns go to the Conf. finals. it's all contingency, that's why you fight in the regular season to get the best possible match up possible. the mavs fought hard but ended up with the worst match up in the warriors. the suns worked hard and got a good match up for them in the lakers. you can't say the lakers are a step ahead when they finished 7th, ended the regular season very badly , and fell hard in the 1st round. now we're in limbo trying to figure what other 11 guys to surround kobe with. it's bullshit. it's a one man show at this point. thank god jeanie has the bomb pussy or we'd probably still be without a coach like phil jackson. i'm telling you i really hope jerry west comes back to the lakers and replaces mitch, cuz seriously what have we done in the past three years to progress the organization?
The point is, Suns will never contend with their style, I'm sure even Sun fans are beginning to realize this. Lakers had one of their worst seasons of all time, and at full strength, we were STILL up there with the elite...Our main problems were playing with no real PG and going through an incredible amount of injuries to key players, which will both be addressed this summer. The Suns can either come back with the same roster and miss the finals, once again, or make some major changes and start from square 1. They really have nothing to lean on, they're a regular season team, how can you deny this? Lets rewind to about 1 year ago, when Lakers had a 3-1 lead, and would've upset the Suns and the "MVP" in the 1st round with ONE REBOUND. An even less experienced, and vulnerable Laker team than the one this year (of course, the injury bug didn't bite as hard that year)...Next year, there will be some changes here and there, but I believe Mitch will find away to surround the core of Kobe-Odom-Luke-Kwame-Turiaf-Bynum-Farmar with much improved talent...When that happens, we are an elite team, who have a real game-plan, with a legendary coach who's proven he knows how to elevate his game when it counts...PeACe
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^^^^ just the MLE probably used for a PG... then either Lamar or Andrew +changes for an all star
Don't forget a couple vet mins to spend.
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Do you enjoy being called a dick ryder? Becasue you're just handing haters ammunition.
At least I'm making sense with my arguments...I'm not afraid to speak the real like some "Laker fans". We ain't Warrior fans homie...Now go back to hiding.
Do you even understand what I asked you? :laugh:
Keep in mind I was the one who said a while ago that if the Lakers get a good PG that d knows how to run the offence then the Lakers would win the Paficic Division.
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Do you enjoy being called a dick ryder? Becasue you're just handing haters ammunition.
At least I'm making sense with my arguments...I'm not afraid to speak the real like some "Laker fans". We ain't Warrior fans homie...Now go back to hiding.
Do you even understand what I asked you? :laugh:
Keep in mind I was the one who said a while ago that if the Lakers get a good PG that d knows how to run the offence then the Lakers would win the Paficic Division.
I don't give a fuck about haters...As long as I know I'm speakin the real...PeACe
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one step ahead? i don't see it. it is most likely the suns will perform equally well if they maintain their roster. also lets note that they almost came back muliple times and beat the spurs this series, they at no real point were embarrassed out of that series. the spurs are getting older every day and i see this as probably their last hurrah, the suns still have some pep in their step, all they need is a few defensive pieces and they'll be fine, they have a team. players want to be there. it's an attrative place.
the lakers have kobe. we're still running around trying to find out what we want to do. we're still trying to find out what players we want to surround him with. kobe has had this team for three years, and we're yet to win a playoff series, shaq's lakers won the title in his fourth year, time is running out on kobe's legacy. it's do or die for kobe and the lakers right now.
we're still a long way away from being up there with the suns. we're more than a few steps BEHIND them at this point. true they only advanced one more round than us, but look who they faced, the spurs....the sleeping giants. if they face the mavs/jazz/rockets/golden state/nuggets the suns go to the Conf. finals. it's all contingency, that's why you fight in the regular season to get the best possible match up possible. the mavs fought hard but ended up with the worst match up in the warriors. the suns worked hard and got a good match up for them in the lakers. you can't say the lakers are a step ahead when they finished 7th, ended the regular season very badly , and fell hard in the 1st round. now we're in limbo trying to figure what other 11 guys to surround kobe with. it's bullshit. it's a one man show at this point. thank god jeanie has the bomb pussy or we'd probably still be without a coach like phil jackson. i'm telling you i really hope jerry west comes back to the lakers and replaces mitch, cuz seriously what have we done in the past three years to progress the organization?
The point is, Suns will never contend with their style, I'm sure even Sun fans are beginning to realize this. Lakers had one of their worst seasons of all time, and at full strength, we were STILL up there with the elite...Our main problems were playing with no real PG and going through an incredible amount of injuries to key players, which will both be addressed this summer. The Suns can either come back with the same roster and miss the finals, once again, or make some major changes and start from square 1. They really have nothing to lean on, they're a regular season team, how can you deny this? Lets rewind to about 1 year ago, when Lakers had a 3-1 lead, and would've upset the Suns and the "MVP" in the 1st round with ONE REBOUND. An even less experienced, and vulnerable Laker team than the one this year (of course, the injury bug didn't bite as hard that year)...Next year, there will be some changes here and there, but I believe Mitch will find away to surround the core of Kobe-Odom-Luke-Kwame-Turiaf-Bynum-Farmar with much improved talent...When that happens, we are an elite team, who have a real game-plan, with a legendary coach who's proven he knows how to elevate his game when it counts...PeACe
They have 3 1st round picks so it really depends on if they will part with Marion or Stoudamire and a pick or see if they can get a elite player with their highest pick and actually try to DEVELOP a bench.
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Lakers- one of the worst seasons in franchise history=1st round playoff exit
Suns- greatest season in franchise history=2nd round playoff exit
The Suns' backs are currently pinned against the wall. People are starting to realize that they can't win it all with that style. Where can they go from here? Can they build on top of what they have? I mean, they have the perfect players for their style of play, what can they possibly do?
The Lakers, on the other hand, have been considered huge disappointments, and how much worse are they really? Take a look at the western conference finals. The Spurs and the Jazz... We handed both of those teams their asses in the regular season. WE'RE NOT AS BAD AS OUR CURRENT STATE MAKES IT SEEM!
Who is really gunna be more disappointed in the off-season? At least the Lakers have something to work with. The Suns' best bet is trading Marion, as rumors have indicated they're looking to do. Who do you think is currently in better shape for the future?
What a stupid post........who gives a fuck about how many chips thhe Lakers have won in the past, its about now. And really why do you hate the Suns so much?
How many more Suns vs Lakers (ie Kobe vs Nash) thread do we need? The series is over, the Lakers got steamrolled, and won't be in the Suns class next year either. The Lakers have Kobe and, even Lakers fans admit, a "CBA" team. The Suns have a great pg who refuses to age (and who played so little early in his career that he has a lot of miles left), and SToudemire and Barbosa, both of whom can only get better, as their games are still quite raw.........
And if i have to read about "ONE REBOUND" one more fucking time i will throw up. Quit living in the past, look to next year where the Lakers still won't touch the SUns
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Lakers- one of the worst seasons in franchise history=1st round playoff exit
Suns- greatest season in franchise history=2nd round playoff exit
The Suns' backs are currently pinned against the wall. People are starting to realize that they can't win it all with that style. Where can they go from here? Can they build on top of what they have? I mean, they have the perfect players for their style of play, what can they possibly do?
The Lakers, on the other hand, have been considered huge disappointments, and how much worse are they really? Take a look at the western conference finals. The Spurs and the Jazz... We handed both of those teams their asses in the regular season. WE'RE NOT AS BAD AS OUR CURRENT STATE MAKES IT SEEM!
Who is really gunna be more disappointed in the off-season? At least the Lakers have something to work with. The Suns' best bet is trading Marion, as rumors have indicated they're looking to do. Who do you think is currently in better shape for the future?
What a stupid post........who gives a fuck about how many chips thhe Lakers have won in the past, its about now. And really why do you hate the Suns so much?
How many more Suns vs Lakers (ie Kobe vs Nash) thread do we need? The series is over, the Lakers got steamrolled, and won't be in the Suns class next year either. The Lakers have Kobe and, even Lakers fans admit, a "CBA" team. The Suns have a great pg who refuses to age (and who played so little early in his career that he has a lot of miles left), and SToudemire and Barbosa, both of whom can only get better, as their games are still quite raw.........
And if i have to read about "ONE REBOUND" one more fucking time i will throw up. Quit living in the past, look to next year where the Lakers still won't touch the SUns
The Lakers will be better than the Suns next year, and when the playoffs come along, Suns will not reach the finals once again, which will be terrible, because there is no progress being made. The Suns have been digressing. 2006=3rd round, 2007=2nd round, 2008=1st round? If the Lakers so much as advance to the 2nd round, that means they are one step ahead. Who knows, maybe the Suns will prove me wrong, but as of now, the Lakers have more to work with towards building on what they have...PeACe
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Suns have eliminated LA 2 years in a row, end of story
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The only reason the SUns didn't make the third round is because of the NBA's playiff format where it doesn't reseed.
I guess we'll see man, but logic says the Suns will be WAY better than the Lakers unless the Lakers get a top end PG or post player, or both.......
And really, exactly like Spice 2k7 said, that is the true reason why Lakers fans are so infatuated with the SUns.............
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Well Atlanta got the 3rd pick so the Suns do not get a lottery pick. They can now try to get some good role players with their late 1st round picks or package them in a trade.
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The only reason the SUns didn't make the third round is because of the NBA's playiff format where it doesn't reseed.
I guess we'll see man, but logic says the Suns will be WAY better than the Lakers unless the Lakers get a top end PG or post player, or both.......
And really, exactly like Spice 2k7 said, that is the true reason why Lakers fans are so infatuated with the SUns.............
For the last 2 years the better team won. End of story. I said it before last season started that the Lakers didn't make any adjustments to get past the hump. Its hard being right all the time.
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The only reason the SUns didn't make the third round is because of the NBA's playiff format where it doesn't reseed.
I guess we'll see man, but logic says the Suns will be WAY better than the Lakers unless the Lakers get a top end PG or post player, or both.......
And really, exactly like Spice 2k7 said, that is the true reason why Lakers fans are so infatuated with the SUns.............
For the last 2 years the better team won. End of story. I said it before last season started that the Lakers didn't make any adjustments to get past the hump. Its hard being right all the time.
Props man, at least you can admit it. I'm not even sure why this thread was made..........
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Its hard being right all the time.
That's stand up material. :D
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nik your arguments are illogical. the suns are just as capable of making the finals next year as ANYONE. seriously, they actually have a better chance than most to make it. and so what if they don't, i'm sure they'll go deeper into the playoffs than the lakers for more years to come. my kid will be graduating high school by the time the lakers win another title
Amare/kurt thomas/sean marks/pat burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kwame brown/andrew bynum/chris mihm
Nash/marcus banks/barbosa>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>farmar/smush/vujcic/mckie/shammond williams
kobe>>>raja bell/piatkowski/rose
lamar odom/walton/radmonovic/evans/cook/turiaf =james jones, jumane jones, shawn marion, boris diaw
as "bad" as the suns are the lakers are worse
to say the suns arn't a playoff team and praise the lakers is just utter and complete bias
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The only reason the SUns didn't make the third round is because of the NBA's playiff format where it doesn't reseed.
I guess we'll see man, but logic says the Suns will be WAY better than the Lakers unless the Lakers get a top end PG or post player, or both.......
And really, exactly like Spice 2k7 said, that is the true reason why Lakers fans are so infatuated with the SUns.............
For the last 2 years the better team won. End of story. I said it before last season started that the Lakers didn't make any adjustments to get past the hump. Its hard being right all the time.
Props man, at least you can admit it. I'm not even sure why this thread was made..........
The Suns were the better team.. there is no doubt about it.. I still think playing this type of B-Ball, Suns won't win a title (it was the same thing with Dallas in the D.Nelson era).. saying we are a step ahead of the Suns isn't fair .. we still have a lot to achieve to be on a Champ level.. Anyways, can we all stop (both Lakers fans, other teams fans, haters, whoever) to relate any other teams related threads or Lebron, Wade ect with the Lakers or Kobe ?? That would be a HUGE upgrade for the NBA related threads
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Suns have eliminated LA 2 years in a row, end of story
As a 2nd seed...They still failed to get that ring they were after, which will keep happening with their style of play, no matter how perfect their team is to their liking. This is why I say the Lakers are one step ahead...Our team isn't even close to where we'd like it, and we can still hang with the top teams at full strength. Imagine if we had the perfect players for our system, like the Suns do... :-X
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nik your arguments are illogical. the suns are just as capable of making the finals next year as ANYONE. seriously, they actually have a better chance than most to make it. and so what if they don't, i'm sure they'll go deeper into the playoffs than the lakers for more years to come. my kid will be graduating high school by the time the lakers win another title
Amare/kurt thomas/sean marks/pat burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kwame brown/andrew bynum/chris mihm
Nash/marcus banks/barbosa>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>farmar/smush/vujcic/mckie/shammond williams
kobe>>>raja bell/piatkowski/rose
lamar odom/walton/radmonovic/evans/cook/turiaf =james jones, jumane jones, shawn marion, boris diaw
as "bad" as the suns are the lakers are worse
to say the suns arn't a playoff team and praise the lakers is just utter and complete bias
Jake, do you know what you're saying? The Lakers are far more of a playoff team than the Suns can ever be, meaning they actually step their game up come playoff time and have a plan for each series, they don't just play the same exact way they did in the regular season, like the Suns do. We simply don't have all the positions filled (PG, primarily) and Phoenix does, that's the difference. If we had our positions filled, we'd be way more championship-bound than Phoenix could dream of... What don't you get about this? If we were one rebound away from upsetting the 2nd seed in an expansion season, how does that not prove the Suns are extremely overrated and not a playoff team? Hell, they had a good chance to lose to the Clippers last year as well...Lost in the 2nd round this year with their dream roster. How are the Lakers not one step ahead of Phoenix?
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Phoenix needs a bench. Obviously they were not able to get a lottery pick in the draft so they will have 2 late first round picks. They need to go after a center and point guard. If they are going to trade, package the picks and trade to get one of the free agents out there. They will not win a championship playing Marion on Duncan or with Kirk Thomas. They need another athletic big to add to Amare in the post. So another post big man and develop a bench and they will be set. The style of play is one thing but if you do not have the personel to execute that is a problem. They are not getting away with James Jones playing power forward or Marion playing center.
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Phoenix needs a bench. Obviously they were not able to get a lottery pick in the draft so they will have 2 late first round picks. They need to go after a center and point guard. If they are going to trade, package the picks and trade to get one of the free agents out there. They will not win a championship playing Marion on Duncan or with Kirk Thomas. They need another athletic big to add to Amare in the post. So another post big man and develop a bench and they will be set. The style of play is one thing but if you do not have the personel to execute that is a problem. They are not getting away with James Jones playing power forward or Marion playing center.
If they have real centers and power forwards, they wont be able to play the way they do....It's a team of tweeners, which can never be TOO good. They either have to change up their game-plan/coach, or settle for being a regular season success. Hey, at least it's better than the Stephon Marbury years...PeACe
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nik your arguments are illogical. the suns are just as capable of making the finals next year as ANYONE. seriously, they actually have a better chance than most to make it. and so what if they don't, i'm sure they'll go deeper into the playoffs than the lakers for more years to come. my kid will be graduating high school by the time the lakers win another title
Amare/kurt thomas/sean marks/pat burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kwame brown/andrew bynum/chris mihm
Nash/marcus banks/barbosa>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>farmar/smush/vujcic/mckie/shammond williams
kobe>>>raja bell/piatkowski/rose
lamar odom/walton/radmonovic/evans/cook/turiaf =james jones, jumane jones, shawn marion, boris diaw
as "bad" as the suns are the lakers are worse
to say the suns arn't a playoff team and praise the lakers is just utter and complete bias
Jake, do you know what you're saying? The Lakers are far more of a playoff team than the Suns can ever be, meaning they actually step their game up come playoff time and have a plan for each series, they don't just play the same exact way they did in the regular season, like the Suns do. We simply don't have all the positions filled (PG, primarily) and Phoenix does, that's the difference. If we had our positions filled, we'd be way more championship-bound than Phoenix could dream of... What don't you get about this? If we were one rebound away from upsetting the 2nd seed in an expansion season, how does that not prove the Suns are extremely overrated and not a playoff team? Hell, they had a good chance to lose to the Clippers last year as well...Lost in the 2nd round this year with their dream roster. How are the Lakers not one step ahead of Phoenix?
If...that's all you ever say.
IF the Atlanta Hawks had all their positions filled, they'd be championship material...IF the Clippers had all their positions filled, they'd be championship matieral...IF you would take your head out of Kobe's ass, maybe you could see that. IF doesn't mean shit.
The better playoff team Lakers have been knocked out by the less than stellar Suns twice now...what'll be the excuse next year?
One rebound away...one shot away...one player away...get the fuck out of here with your "valid" opinions and shut the hell up.
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^^None of what you just posted was relevant to what I was saying. Try making some VALID arguments next time. :D
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IF is your only argument to anything. IF this and IF that. IF doesn't mean a damn thing.
The Lakers are not better than the Suns and will not be better than the Suns anytime in the near future. The Lakers will be a second tier team for the next few years. They won't get past Dallas, San Antonio, or Phoenix in the near future. First round, if they make the playoffs at all, and done. That's it, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
The Lakers are nowhere close to the Suns. Why? The Suns smoked the Lakers in the playoffs...again. How's that for a valid argument. You can't say the Lakers won. You can't say they were the better team. Better superstar? Yes. Better team? No. Not now, not last year, not next year.
Now, I'm going to sit back and wait for your reply...I'll even start it for you...
"We were one shot away and if the media wasn't giving the Suns an extra twenty points a game and poisoning your minds the Lakers would've dominated. KOBE ROCKS"
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no way r the lakers ahead of the suns, yes the suns might have exited the playoffs kinda early but the lakers produced nothing in the playoffs n dont really have a supporting cast for kobe
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IF is your only argument to anything. IF this and IF that. IF doesn't mean a damn thing.
The Lakers are not better than the Suns and will not be better than the Suns anytime in the near future. The Lakers will be a second tier team for the next few years. They won't get past Dallas, San Antonio, or Phoenix in the near future. First round, if they make the playoffs at all, and done. That's it, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
The Lakers are nowhere close to the Suns. Why? The Suns smoked the Lakers in the playoffs...again. How's that for a valid argument. You can't say the Lakers won. You can't say they were the better team. Better superstar? Yes. Better team? No. Not now, not last year, not next year.
Now, I'm going to sit back and wait for your reply...I'll even start it for you...
"We were one shot away and if the media wasn't giving the Suns an extra twenty points a game and poisoning your minds the Lakers would've dominated. KOBE ROCKS"
We will see next season who was right.
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I am still shocked this thread was ever made.
The Suns beat the Lakers handidly this year, they beat them last year without supposedly their best player. What more needs to be said?
The Suns played defense against the Spurs, they DID change their game, but they were not good enough to beat the Spurs. No other team will beat the SPurs twice in a series........................
As for next year, the Lakers have plenty of holes to fill, far more than the Suns. The Lakers need to make HUGE changes before they can hope to be as good as the Suns, that much is evident.
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Lakers are four steps behind the Suns. Center, power forward, small forward and point guard.
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Lakers are four steps behind the Suns. Center, power forward, small forward and point guard.
But remember, we are all brainwashed by the media so it's not true that Nash is better than Smush and Farmar; Amare? better than , Kwame, and Bynum? PFFF! Media brainwashing at its finest. Bell and Marion? Puhlease! Give me Chris Mihm and Odom any day of the week!
And in NIK's fashion...
Suns>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lakers...
look at that, not even worth of being on the same page!
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Phoenix needs a bench. Obviously they were not able to get a lottery pick in the draft so they will have 2 late first round picks. They need to go after a center and point guard. If they are going to trade, package the picks and trade to get one of the free agents out there. They will not win a championship playing Marion on Duncan or with Kirk Thomas. They need another athletic big to add to Amare in the post. So another post big man and develop a bench and they will be set. The style of play is one thing but if you do not have the personel to execute that is a problem. They are not getting away with James Jones playing power forward or Marion playing center.
If they have real centers and power forwards, they wont be able to play the way they do....It's a team of tweeners, which can never be TOO good. They either have to change up their game-plan/coach, or settle for being a regular season success. Hey, at least it's better than the Stephon Marbury years...PeACe
A athletic center would flourish in Phoenix, especially one that can rebound play D and block shots. The blocked shots would trigger the fast break even more for the suns. They already have Amare so a center that can do that and run the floor well in that offense would be huge. a Marcus Williams type point guard that actually can RUN Dantoni's offense off the bench can move Barbosa back to his natural shooting guard position. So lets say Phoenix drafted Williams last year, which I think they had a opportunity to do.
Williams
Thomas
Barbosa
Jones
Add a good backup center and a starting center and actually play those guys off the bench and that team would do damage. And you are still athletic enough to run the type of offense Phoenix runs.
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Lakers are four steps behind the Suns. Center, power forward, small forward and point guard.
Steve Nash + Leandro Barbosa + Marcus Banks > Jordan Farmar + Sasha Vujacic + Smush Parker
Luke Walton + Vladimir Radmanovic + Mo Evans > James Jones + Jumaine Jones + Jalen Rose
Lamar Odom + Ronny Turiaf + Brian Cook > Shawn Marion + Boris Diaw + Pat Burke
Amare Stoudemire + Kurt Thomas > Kwame Brown + Andrew Bynum
2/4...Terrible.
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Lakers are four steps behind the Suns. Center, power forward, small forward and point guard.
Steve Nash + Leandro Barbosa + Marcus Banks > Jordan Farmar + Sasha Vujacic + Smush Parker
Luke Walton + Vladimir Radmanovic + Mo Evans > James Jones + Jumaine Jones + Jalen Rose
Lamar Odom + Ronny Turiaf + Brian Cook > Shawn Marion + Boris Diaw + Pat Burke
Amare Stoudemire + Kurt Thomas > Kwame Brown + Andrew Bynum
2/4...Terrible.
Not many would agree with you on Odom/Turiaf/Cook > Marion/Diaw/Burke
Of course, the Lakers have the best athlete in the league, and if they can find players to compliment him (and i am not sure that is possible) then they have a chance to perhaps win a series, as long as they don't play the Suns first. If they do play the SUns again, the Lakers will be lucky to win two games, and only IF they get a lucky rebound or something
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We will see next season who was right.
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nik your arguments are illogical. the suns are just as capable of making the finals next year as ANYONE. seriously, they actually have a better chance than most to make it. and so what if they don't, i'm sure they'll go deeper into the playoffs than the lakers for more years to come. my kid will be graduating high school by the time the lakers win another title
Amare/kurt thomas/sean marks/pat burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kwame brown/andrew bynum/chris mihm
Nash/marcus banks/barbosa>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>farmar/smush/vujcic/mckie/shammond williams
kobe>>>raja bell/piatkowski/rose
lamar odom/walton/radmonovic/evans/cook/turiaf =james jones, jumane jones, shawn marion, boris diaw
as "bad" as the suns are the lakers are worse
to say the suns arn't a playoff team and praise the lakers is just utter and complete bias
Jake, do you know what you're saying? The Lakers are far more of a playoff team than the Suns can ever be, meaning they actually step their game up come playoff time and have a plan for each series, they don't just play the same exact way they did in the regular season, like the Suns do. We simply don't have all the positions filled (PG, primarily) and Phoenix does, that's the difference. If we had our positions filled, we'd be way more championship-bound than Phoenix could dream of... What don't you get about this? If we were one rebound away from upsetting the 2nd seed in an expansion season, how does that not prove the Suns are extremely overrated and not a playoff team? Hell, they had a good chance to lose to the Clippers last year as well...Lost in the 2nd round this year with their dream roster. How are the Lakers not one step ahead of Phoenix?
yes i understand what i'm saying. the suns last year came back from 3-1 to beat the lakers last year.....the suns proved that year that they were more of a playoff team than the lakers tha year. one rebound away? okay what about the other 3 games the lakers let slide away with the SAME STYLE OF PLAY. now let's remember what happened THIS YEAR in the playoffs. 4-1 , blown out of the water. the suns actually improved upon their performace last year against the lakers. the suns just had the misfortune of meeting the NBA champs in the second round, which they made many runs to almost beat they found themselves "one rebound away" from winning games as well,lol. did you watch that series? if robert horry doesn't start that scuffle do the suns beat the spurs the next game with their best player AMARE in the game? lol i say 'maybe'. the lakers would not of put up as much of a fight against the spurs that the suns did . no way! The suns still have a chance to win it all, i say if the pistons and heat can win it all then so can the suns, i can see this. it's HIGHLY possible. they could take it next season. all they have to do is go through the mavs and spurs who they've proven they can compete with, now if they learn from their mistakes they can definately beat these teams. they're MORE than one step ahead of the lakers. who only have Kobe for SURE next season. the only way the lakers are winning it all before the suns is if we acquire kevin garnett without getting rid of lamar odom while some how getting jason kidd/billips then by the grace of god acquiring some key role players. lol don't you see that it's not possible. at most we'll get a quality point guard and still fall shorter than wherever the suns fall. we're like sacramento compared to the lakers a few years ago when we were the two power houses. no matter what the kings did the lakers were always a step ahead. now the shoes on a different foot for us, and we're a step BEHIND the suns. they HAVE a point guard, they HAVE a center, they HAVE stable fowards, all they need is depth and defense and they're champions....all they have to do is sign a few ROLE players and the ring is theirs. the lakers have a much more daunting task we need ANOTHER all star and a revamp of all of our role players. how is that a step ahead of the suns,lol. we have kobe and we have phil, we MIGHT have odom. we're still like 9-10 players away from a championship structure. sorry this is reality after trading shaq.
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nik your arguments are illogical. the suns are just as capable of making the finals next year as ANYONE. seriously, they actually have a better chance than most to make it. and so what if they don't, i'm sure they'll go deeper into the playoffs than the lakers for more years to come. my kid will be graduating high school by the time the lakers win another title
Amare/kurt thomas/sean marks/pat burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kwame brown/andrew bynum/chris mihm
Nash/marcus banks/barbosa>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>farmar/smush/vujcic/mckie/shammond williams
kobe>>>raja bell/piatkowski/rose
lamar odom/walton/radmonovic/evans/cook/turiaf =james jones, jumane jones, shawn marion, boris diaw
as "bad" as the suns are the lakers are worse
to say the suns arn't a playoff team and praise the lakers is just utter and complete bias
Jake, do you know what you're saying? The Lakers are far more of a playoff team than the Suns can ever be, meaning they actually step their game up come playoff time and have a plan for each series, they don't just play the same exact way they did in the regular season, like the Suns do. We simply don't have all the positions filled (PG, primarily) and Phoenix does, that's the difference. If we had our positions filled, we'd be way more championship-bound than Phoenix could dream of... What don't you get about this? If we were one rebound away from upsetting the 2nd seed in an expansion season, how does that not prove the Suns are extremely overrated and not a playoff team? Hell, they had a good chance to lose to the Clippers last year as well...Lost in the 2nd round this year with their dream roster. How are the Lakers not one step ahead of Phoenix?
yes i understand what i'm saying. the suns last year came back from 3-1 to beat the lakers last year.....the suns proved that year that they were more of a playoff team than the lakers tha year. one rebound away? okay what about the other 3 games the lakers let slide away with the SAME STYLE OF PLAY. now let's remember what happened THIS YEAR in the playoffs. 4-1 , blown out of the water. the suns actually improved upon their performace last year against the lakers. the suns just had the misfortune of meeting the NBA champs in the second round, which they made many runs to almost beat they found themselves "one rebound away" from winning games as well,lol. did you watch that series? if robert horry doesn't start that scuffle do the suns beat the spurs the next game with their best player AMARE in the game? lol i say 'maybe'. the lakers would not of put up as much of a fight against the spurs that the suns did . no way! The suns still have a chance to win it all, i say if the pistons and heat can win it all then so can the suns, i can see this. it's HIGHLY possible. they could take it next season. all they have to do is go through the mavs and spurs who they've proven they can compete with, now if they learn from their mistakes they can definately beat these teams. they're MORE than one step ahead of the lakers. who only have Kobe for SURE next season. the only way the lakers are winning it all before the suns is if we acquire kevin garnett without getting rid of lamar odom while some how getting jason kidd/billips then by the grace of god acquiring some key role players. lol don't you see that it's not possible. at most we'll get a quality point guard and still fall shorter than wherever the suns fall. we're like sacramento compared to the lakers a few years ago when we were the two power houses. no matter what the kings did the lakers were always a step ahead. now the shoes on a different foot for us, and we're a step BEHIND the suns. they HAVE a point guard, they HAVE a center, they HAVE stable fowards, all they need is depth and defense and they're champions....all they have to do is sign a few ROLE players and the ring is theirs. the lakers have a much more daunting task we need ANOTHER all star and a revamp of all of our role players. how is that a step ahead of the suns,lol. we have kobe and we have phil, we MIGHT have odom. we're still like 9-10 players away from a championship structure. sorry this is reality after trading shaq.
:laugh:
That last sentence sums up your whole logic. The reality is that the Lakers are 10X more likely to win a championship in the next decade than Phoenix. Mark that.
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nik your arguments are illogical. the suns are just as capable of making the finals next year as ANYONE. seriously, they actually have a better chance than most to make it. and so what if they don't, i'm sure they'll go deeper into the playoffs than the lakers for more years to come. my kid will be graduating high school by the time the lakers win another title
Amare/kurt thomas/sean marks/pat burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kwame brown/andrew bynum/chris mihm
Nash/marcus banks/barbosa>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>farmar/smush/vujcic/mckie/shammond williams
kobe>>>raja bell/piatkowski/rose
lamar odom/walton/radmonovic/evans/cook/turiaf =james jones, jumane jones, shawn marion, boris diaw
as "bad" as the suns are the lakers are worse
to say the suns arn't a playoff team and praise the lakers is just utter and complete bias
Jake, do you know what you're saying? The Lakers are far more of a playoff team than the Suns can ever be, meaning they actually step their game up come playoff time and have a plan for each series, they don't just play the same exact way they did in the regular season, like the Suns do. We simply don't have all the positions filled (PG, primarily) and Phoenix does, that's the difference. If we had our positions filled, we'd be way more championship-bound than Phoenix could dream of... What don't you get about this? If we were one rebound away from upsetting the 2nd seed in an expansion season, how does that not prove the Suns are extremely overrated and not a playoff team? Hell, they had a good chance to lose to the Clippers last year as well...Lost in the 2nd round this year with their dream roster. How are the Lakers not one step ahead of Phoenix?
yes i understand what i'm saying. the suns last year came back from 3-1 to beat the lakers last year.....the suns proved that year that they were more of a playoff team than the lakers tha year. one rebound away? okay what about the other 3 games the lakers let slide away with the SAME STYLE OF PLAY. now let's remember what happened THIS YEAR in the playoffs. 4-1 , blown out of the water. the suns actually improved upon their performace last year against the lakers. the suns just had the misfortune of meeting the NBA champs in the second round, which they made many runs to almost beat they found themselves "one rebound away" from winning games as well,lol. did you watch that series? if robert horry doesn't start that scuffle do the suns beat the spurs the next game with their best player AMARE in the game? lol i say 'maybe'. the lakers would not of put up as much of a fight against the spurs that the suns did . no way! The suns still have a chance to win it all, i say if the pistons and heat can win it all then so can the suns, i can see this. it's HIGHLY possible. they could take it next season. all they have to do is go through the mavs and spurs who they've proven they can compete with, now if they learn from their mistakes they can definately beat these teams. they're MORE than one step ahead of the lakers. who only have Kobe for SURE next season. the only way the lakers are winning it all before the suns is if we acquire kevin garnett without getting rid of lamar odom while some how getting jason kidd/billips then by the grace of god acquiring some key role players. lol don't you see that it's not possible. at most we'll get a quality point guard and still fall shorter than wherever the suns fall. we're like sacramento compared to the lakers a few years ago when we were the two power houses. no matter what the kings did the lakers were always a step ahead. now the shoes on a different foot for us, and we're a step BEHIND the suns. they HAVE a point guard, they HAVE a center, they HAVE stable fowards, all they need is depth and defense and they're champions....all they have to do is sign a few ROLE players and the ring is theirs. the lakers have a much more daunting task we need ANOTHER all star and a revamp of all of our role players. how is that a step ahead of the suns,lol. we have kobe and we have phil, we MIGHT have odom. we're still like 9-10 players away from a championship structure. sorry this is reality after trading shaq.
:laugh:
That last sentence sums up your whole logic. The reality is that the Lakers are 10X more likely to win a championship in the next decade than Phoenix. Mark that.
probability says that we were more likely to win a championship with shaq than with kobe.
and how do you figure the lakers are more likely to win a championship within the next decade over phoenix? if the teams stay the way they are phoenix is hoisting the o'brian trophy before us. players are happy in phoenix , players are NOT happy in LA. phoenix still has a future after the nash era. who's LA's future after kobe? your logic is very bias. please come back to reality.
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nik your arguments are illogical. the suns are just as capable of making the finals next year as ANYONE. seriously, they actually have a better chance than most to make it. and so what if they don't, i'm sure they'll go deeper into the playoffs than the lakers for more years to come. my kid will be graduating high school by the time the lakers win another title
Amare/kurt thomas/sean marks/pat burke >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>kwame brown/andrew bynum/chris mihm
Nash/marcus banks/barbosa>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>farmar/smush/vujcic/mckie/shammond williams
kobe>>>raja bell/piatkowski/rose
lamar odom/walton/radmonovic/evans/cook/turiaf =james jones, jumane jones, shawn marion, boris diaw
as "bad" as the suns are the lakers are worse
to say the suns arn't a playoff team and praise the lakers is just utter and complete bias
Jake, do you know what you're saying? The Lakers are far more of a playoff team than the Suns can ever be, meaning they actually step their game up come playoff time and have a plan for each series, they don't just play the same exact way they did in the regular season, like the Suns do. We simply don't have all the positions filled (PG, primarily) and Phoenix does, that's the difference. If we had our positions filled, we'd be way more championship-bound than Phoenix could dream of... What don't you get about this? If we were one rebound away from upsetting the 2nd seed in an expansion season, how does that not prove the Suns are extremely overrated and not a playoff team? Hell, they had a good chance to lose to the Clippers last year as well...Lost in the 2nd round this year with their dream roster. How are the Lakers not one step ahead of Phoenix?
yes i understand what i'm saying. the suns last year came back from 3-1 to beat the lakers last year.....the suns proved that year that they were more of a playoff team than the lakers tha year. one rebound away? okay what about the other 3 games the lakers let slide away with the SAME STYLE OF PLAY. now let's remember what happened THIS YEAR in the playoffs. 4-1 , blown out of the water. the suns actually improved upon their performace last year against the lakers. the suns just had the misfortune of meeting the NBA champs in the second round, which they made many runs to almost beat they found themselves "one rebound away" from winning games as well,lol. did you watch that series? if robert horry doesn't start that scuffle do the suns beat the spurs the next game with their best player AMARE in the game? lol i say 'maybe'. the lakers would not of put up as much of a fight against the spurs that the suns did . no way! The suns still have a chance to win it all, i say if the pistons and heat can win it all then so can the suns, i can see this. it's HIGHLY possible. they could take it next season. all they have to do is go through the mavs and spurs who they've proven they can compete with, now if they learn from their mistakes they can definately beat these teams. they're MORE than one step ahead of the lakers. who only have Kobe for SURE next season. the only way the lakers are winning it all before the suns is if we acquire kevin garnett without getting rid of lamar odom while some how getting jason kidd/billips then by the grace of god acquiring some key role players. lol don't you see that it's not possible. at most we'll get a quality point guard and still fall shorter than wherever the suns fall. we're like sacramento compared to the lakers a few years ago when we were the two power houses. no matter what the kings did the lakers were always a step ahead. now the shoes on a different foot for us, and we're a step BEHIND the suns. they HAVE a point guard, they HAVE a center, they HAVE stable fowards, all they need is depth and defense and they're champions....all they have to do is sign a few ROLE players and the ring is theirs. the lakers have a much more daunting task we need ANOTHER all star and a revamp of all of our role players. how is that a step ahead of the suns,lol. we have kobe and we have phil, we MIGHT have odom. we're still like 9-10 players away from a championship structure. sorry this is reality after trading shaq.
:laugh:
That last sentence sums up your whole logic. The reality is that the Lakers are 10X more likely to win a championship in the next decade than Phoenix. Mark that.
probability says that we were more likely to win a championship with shaq than with kobe.
and how do you figure the lakers are more likely to win a championship within the next decade over phoenix? if the teams stay the way they are phoenix is hoisting the o'brian trophy before us. players are happy in phoenix , players are NOT happy in LA. phoenix still has a future after the nash era. who's LA's future after kobe? your logic is very bias. please come back to reality.
LMFAO@thinking Shaq woulda gotten into the playoffs with those rosters. We weren't more likely to win shit with Shaq minus Kobe. If we weren't winning with a lazy Shaq + Kobe (and even with a lazy Shaq + Kobe + GP + Malone), what makes you think a lazy Shaq coulda done shit on his own? You're hilarious, Jake. If Phoenix stays the same way they are, they will only get worse and worse. Nash is getting older, Marion is getting more frustrated with every loss (no, not everyone is happy in Phoenix like you believe), and they need some major changes in their staff (not just their roster) if they wanna step over that second-tier team hump...Lakers have been in developing stages and were still able to play to the level of the Suns on top of their game on more than a few occasions. That tells me we are, NO QUESTION, a step ahead....
Last but not least:
Steve Nash=33
Kobe Bryant=28
:laugh:
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1. if malone wasn't injured we would have won the championship over the pistons. we lost because the pistons exploited us at the four three and one spot. shaq and kobe were the only producers on the team. if shaq would have stayed we would have won the championship again for at least the next 2 seasons. if he did it with miami, probabilty says he could have done it with LA.
2. the suns have a player called.........AMARE, the player you siad "will neeeeeeeever be the same again".
Amare -24
kobe-28
in the west it's easier to buildaround a big guy than a small guy, remember that, that's why i say the suns will hoist that trophy before the lakers. the suns have other players beside nash they can build around. the lakers three almost four years later are trying to build around kobe, he's only got a few years of prime left before he starts sliding. it's do or die , so far there's been more death than doing.
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1. if malone wasn't injured we would have won the championship over the pistons. we lost because the pistons exploited us at the four three and one spot. shaq and kobe were the only producers on the team. if shaq would have stayed we would have won the championship again for at least the next 2 seasons. if he did it with miami, probabilty says he could have done it with LA.
2. the suns have a player called.........AMARE, the player you siad "will neeeeeeeever be the same again".
Amare -24
kobe-28
in the west it's easier to buildaround a big guy than a small guy, remember that, that's why i say the suns will hoist that trophy before the lakers. the suns have other players beside nash they can build around. the lakers three almost four years later are trying to build around kobe, he's only got a few years of prime left before he starts sliding. it's do or die , so far there's been more death than doing.
If, if... IF the Heat weren't the worst champions ever and Shaq was a deciding factor in the series to begin with, maybe I'd give him more credit. Like I said, Shaq on this Lakers roster instead of Kobe would be REALLY sad. Anyone denying this is either a Shaq groupie or a Kobe hater...And LMAO@you putting Amare anywhere near Kobe....Kobe has a few years of prime left? LOL. Jordan just started winning championships at Kobe's age. Have faith in your team...If you still consider them that...PeACe
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1. if malone wasn't injured we would have won the championship over the pistons. we lost because the pistons exploited us at the four three and one spot. shaq and kobe were the only producers on the team. if shaq would have stayed we would have won the championship again for at least the next 2 seasons. if he did it with miami, probabilty says he could have done it with LA.
2. the suns have a player called.........AMARE, the player you siad "will neeeeeeeever be the same again".
Amare -24
kobe-28
in the west it's easier to buildaround a big guy than a small guy, remember that, that's why i say the suns will hoist that trophy before the lakers. the suns have other players beside nash they can build around. the lakers three almost four years later are trying to build around kobe, he's only got a few years of prime left before he starts sliding. it's do or die , so far there's been more death than doing.
Major props man, you are a rarity among sports fans: UNBIASED and intelligent! Good stuff......
I agree with most of what you say, except that Kobe's only 28, so he has to have at least 5 great years left.........
And NIK, what does the "worst champions ever" mean? Bottom line is they won, damn that must have hurt you to see Shaq win another one before Kobe!
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Man, the Heat basically destroyed the team who went 1 game from the EC Finals to acquire Shaq. They changed the coach and they traded Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, Caron Butler and 3/4 of the original team just to rebuild around Shaq and Wade. When you destroy a team with a lot of potential, with young players, and with a pretty good coach, you do it to win the title, not to loose it. They've won a title, so now, a couple of years later, we can say they did the right move, and that to acquire Shaq was a good move for them. Now they're fucked up, cause they have major salary cap problems, and the team is too old. But they got a ring, something they never won before, so they could re-build the team without the same pressure they had when they acquired Shaq. But the fact the Heat won the title is not a masterpiece: it's just a natural consequence of all the trades they did destroying the original skilled team they had. So props to them, but it would have been a real disaster if they didn't win at least a ring. Talking about the Lakers, i think we simply had to choose Kobe over Shaq, cause Kobe was 24-25, and you don't trade a player like Kobe at that age. I really can't understand why you bitch so much about Shaq. He's the past, man. Watch ahead. Let's talk about Bynum, about Brown, about Mihm, about Turiaf, about KG, JO, Boozer, Gasol, etc.. Why are you still talking about Shaq?? It's like Pacers fans talking about Reggie Miller: he retired!! Shit. Go ahead.
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Man, the Heat basically destroyed the team who went 1 game from the EC Finals to acquire Shaq. They changed the coach and they traded Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, Caron Butler and 3/4 of the original team just to rebuild around Shaq and Wade. When you destroy a team with a lot of potential, with young players, and with a pretty good coach, you do it to win the title, not to loose it. They've won a title, so now, a couple of years later, we can say they did the right move, and that to acquire Shaq was a good move for them. Now they're fucked up, cause they have major salary cap problems, and the team is too old. But they got a ring, something they never won before, so they could re-build the team without the same pressure they had when they acquired Shaq. But the fact the Heat won the title is not a masterpiece: it's just a natural consequence of all the trades they did destroying the original skilled team they had. So props to them, but it would have been a real disaster if they didn't win at least a ring. Talking about the Lakers, i think we simply had to choose Kobe over Shaq, cause Kobe was 24-25, and you don't trade a player like Kobe at that age. I really can't understand why you bitch so much about Shaq. He's the past, man. Watch ahead. Let's talk about Bynum, about Brown, about Mihm, about Turiaf, about KG, JO, Boozer, Gasol, etc.. Why are you still talking about Shaq?? It's like Pacers fans talking about Reggie Miller: he retired!! Shit. Go ahead.
I think it was Jake who considered himself more of a Shaq fan than a Laker fan...
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1. if malone wasn't injured we would have won the championship over the pistons. we lost because the pistons exploited us at the four three and one spot. shaq and kobe were the only producers on the team. if shaq would have stayed we would have won the championship again for at least the next 2 seasons. if he did it with miami, probabilty says he could have done it with LA.
2. the suns have a player called.........AMARE, the player you siad "will neeeeeeeever be the same again".
Amare -24
kobe-28
in the west it's easier to buildaround a big guy than a small guy, remember that, that's why i say the suns will hoist that trophy before the lakers. the suns have other players beside nash they can build around. the lakers three almost four years later are trying to build around kobe, he's only got a few years of prime left before he starts sliding. it's do or die , so far there's been more death than doing.
If, if... IF the Heat weren't the worst champions ever and Shaq was a deciding factor in the series to begin with, maybe I'd give him more credit. Like I said, Shaq on this Lakers roster instead of Kobe would be REALLY sad. Anyone denying this is either a Shaq groupie or a Kobe hater...And LMAO@you putting Amare anywhere near Kobe....Kobe has a few years of prime left? LOL. Jordan just started winning championships at Kobe's age. Have faith in your team...If you still consider them that...PeACe
Worst Champions Ever>>>Lakers
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1. if malone wasn't injured we would have won the championship over the pistons. we lost because the pistons exploited us at the four three and one spot. shaq and kobe were the only producers on the team. if shaq would have stayed we would have won the championship again for at least the next 2 seasons. if he did it with miami, probabilty says he could have done it with LA.
2. the suns have a player called.........AMARE, the player you siad "will neeeeeeeever be the same again".
Amare -24
kobe-28
in the west it's easier to buildaround a big guy than a small guy, remember that, that's why i say the suns will hoist that trophy before the lakers. the suns have other players beside nash they can build around. the lakers three almost four years later are trying to build around kobe, he's only got a few years of prime left before he starts sliding. it's do or die , so far there's been more death than doing.
If, if... IF the Heat weren't the worst champions ever and Shaq was a deciding factor in the series to begin with, maybe I'd give him more credit. Like I said, Shaq on this Lakers roster instead of Kobe would be REALLY sad. Anyone denying this is either a Shaq groupie or a Kobe hater...And LMAO@you putting Amare anywhere near Kobe....Kobe has a few years of prime left? LOL. Jordan just started winning championships at Kobe's age. Have faith in your team...If you still consider them that...PeACe
Worst Champions Ever>>>Lakers
Wow. Dumbest thing ever. But pretty expected...
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Man, the Heat basically destroyed the team who went 1 game from the EC Finals to acquire Shaq. They changed the coach and they traded Lamar Odom, Brian Grant, Caron Butler and 3/4 of the original team just to rebuild around Shaq and Wade. When you destroy a team with a lot of potential, with young players, and with a pretty good coach, you do it to win the title, not to loose it. They've won a title, so now, a couple of years later, we can say they did the right move, and that to acquire Shaq was a good move for them. Now they're fucked up, cause they have major salary cap problems, and the team is too old. But they got a ring, something they never won before, so they could re-build the team without the same pressure they had when they acquired Shaq. But the fact the Heat won the title is not a masterpiece: it's just a natural consequence of all the trades they did destroying the original skilled team they had. So props to them, but it would have been a real disaster if they didn't win at least a ring. Talking about the Lakers, i think we simply had to choose Kobe over Shaq, cause Kobe was 24-25, and you don't trade a player like Kobe at that age. I really can't understand why you bitch so much about Shaq. He's the past, man. Watch ahead. Let's talk about Bynum, about Brown, about Mihm, about Turiaf, about KG, JO, Boozer, Gasol, etc.. Why are you still talking about Shaq?? It's like Pacers fans talking about Reggie Miller: he retired!! Shit. Go ahead.
I think it was Jake who considered himself more of a Shaq fan than a Laker fan...
It wasn't personal.
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1. if malone wasn't injured we would have won the championship over the pistons. we lost because the pistons exploited us at the four three and one spot. shaq and kobe were the only producers on the team. if shaq would have stayed we would have won the championship again for at least the next 2 seasons. if he did it with miami, probabilty says he could have done it with LA.
2. the suns have a player called.........AMARE, the player you siad "will neeeeeeeever be the same again".
Amare -24
kobe-28
in the west it's easier to buildaround a big guy than a small guy, remember that, that's why i say the suns will hoist that trophy before the lakers. the suns have other players beside nash they can build around. the lakers three almost four years later are trying to build around kobe, he's only got a few years of prime left before he starts sliding. it's do or die , so far there's been more death than doing.
If, if... IF the Heat weren't the worst champions ever and Shaq was a deciding factor in the series to begin with, maybe I'd give him more credit. Like I said, Shaq on this Lakers roster instead of Kobe would be REALLY sad. Anyone denying this is either a Shaq groupie or a Kobe hater...And LMAO@you putting Amare anywhere near Kobe....Kobe has a few years of prime left? LOL. Jordan just started winning championships at Kobe's age. Have faith in your team...If you still consider them that...PeACe
Worst Champions Ever>>>Lakers
Wow. Dumbest thing ever. But pretty expected...
How's that the dumbest thing ever? Worst Champions ever is still a Champion.
Since the Shaq/Kobe split, Shaq has more playoff appearances, playoff wins, regular season wins, and, most importantly, more rings.
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why continue to argue with him guys? Nik will ride kobe's dick no matter what, let him say whatever he wants and then this time next year we'll laugh our asses off when kobe is sent fishing again....... ;D
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True that, we should quit fucking with NIK altogether, but its just muindblowing the shit he says!
I don't think NIK actually believes even half the shit he writes, he's just trying to mess with us.......that is the only explanation, because otherwise he is the most narrow minded, biased sports fan I've come across. Surely its just an act though, right?
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True that, we should quit fucking with NIK altogether, but its just muindblowing the shit he says!
I don't think NIK actually believes even half the shit he writes, he's just trying to mess with us.......that is the only explanation, because otherwise he is the most narrow minded, biased sports fan I've come across. Surely its just an act though, right?
I think he believes it for two reasons:
A) It makes him feel important, sort of like a "king of the internet boards" kind of deal.
B) He thinks Lakers read this message board and that they can give him benefits...you know, the kind where he can deliver happy endings if he wants to...
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Lakers- one of the worst seasons in franchise history=1st round playoff exit
Suns- greatest season in franchise history=2nd round playoff exit
The Suns' backs are currently pinned against the wall. People are starting to realize that they can't win it all with that style. Where can they go from here? Can they build on top of what they have? I mean, they have the perfect players for their style of play, what can they possibly do?
The Lakers, on the other hand, have been considered huge disappointments, and how much worse are they really? Take a look at the western conference finals. The Spurs and the Jazz... We handed both of those teams their asses in the regular season. WE'RE NOT AS BAD AS OUR CURRENT STATE MAKES IT SEEM!
Who is really gunna be more disappointed in the off-season? At least the Lakers have something to work with. The Suns' best bet is trading Marion, as rumors have indicated they're looking to do. Who do you think is currently in better shape for the future?
You know me, I'm as big a Laker fan as anyone but you're wrong.
The Suns have an elite PG and center that both made first team all NBA. If you look at most championship teams, they have an elite guard and an elite big. The Spurs have Parker and Duncan. The Lakers 7 years ago we had Shaq and Kobe. During the 80's, there was Magic and Kareem. The Suns already have two necessary ingredients needed to win a championship. The Lakers have one, an elite guard but our bigs are below average.
The fact is, Houston, San Antonio, Phoenix, Utah, and Dallas are in much better shape than we are. All those teams have talented guards or even talented trios. The 3 best teams in the conference, San Antonio, Phoenix, and Utah have a talented trio. We have Kobe, Odom and then .... Our role players are ..... That's the reality we're facing right now.
In order for us to make the next step, we need to
1. Trade for some good role players, maybe we can do a s/t with Luke, or use Kwame's expiring to get someone in here that will go out and play their role.
2. Hope Bynum develops. Personally i'm all for trading him if it can land someone who can contribute now.
3. Odom gets completely healthy and maintains health throughout the season. I think our season would have turned out differently if Odom hadn't got hurt. The reality is, even if he hadn't gotten hurt, we're still not as good as San Antonio.
4. Regular season means jack shit. It's all about how you perform in the playoffs. Look at Dallas, who won 67 games and got dominated by Golden State. San Antonio had a decent regular season but you can see they're easily the best team in the league. The reason is that they have the best big man in the league, and 2 talented guards. They have role players that know what they're doing and play their roles. Our role players look like they're running with their heads cut off half the time.
5. We need some athletes on this team. We have so many unathletic players with redundant skill sets. Why in gods name was Cook and Sasha extended? Clearly management is asleep at the wheel as the team was stacked with no defense matador shooters that can't shoot. ugh.. We need more role players like Turiaf or Evans, athletes that go out and play hard, rebound and actually play some D. You can't have a team of all stars but you can get role players that do their jobs. It's not a coincidence that Horry and Fisher are still in the playoffs.
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1. if malone wasn't injured we would have won the championship over the pistons. we lost because the pistons exploited us at the four three and one spot. shaq and kobe were the only producers on the team. if shaq would have stayed we would have won the championship again for at least the next 2 seasons. if he did it with miami, probabilty says he could have done it with LA.
2. the suns have a player called.........AMARE, the player you siad "will neeeeeeeever be the same again".
Amare -24
kobe-28
in the west it's easier to buildaround a big guy than a small guy, remember that, that's why i say the suns will hoist that trophy before the lakers. the suns have other players beside nash they can build around. the lakers three almost four years later are trying to build around kobe, he's only got a few years of prime left before he starts sliding. it's do or die , so far there's been more death than doing.
If, if... IF the Heat weren't the worst champions ever and Shaq was a deciding factor in the series to begin with, maybe I'd give him more credit. Like I said, Shaq on this Lakers roster instead of Kobe would be REALLY sad. Anyone denying this is either a Shaq groupie or a Kobe hater...And LMAO@you putting Amare anywhere near Kobe....Kobe has a few years of prime left? LOL. Jordan just started winning championships at Kobe's age. Have faith in your team...If you still consider them that...PeACe
Worst Champions Ever>>>Lakers
Wow. Dumbest thing ever. But pretty expected...
How's that the dumbest thing ever? Worst Champions ever is still a Champion.
Since the Shaq/Kobe split, Shaq has more playoff appearances, playoff wins, regular season wins, and, most importantly, more rings.
And Shaq is only the SUPPORTING player on a team that was already Eastern Conference Semi-Final bound a year before he got there. Kobe got an expansion team and was BY FAR the best player in every aspect. Uncomparable scenarios. Any buffoon can see that...PeACe
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why continue to argue with him guys? Nik will ride kobe's dick no matter what, let him say whatever he wants and then this time next year we'll laugh our asses off when kobe is sent fishing again....... ;D
True that, we should quit fucking with NIK altogether, but its just muindblowing the shit he says!
I don't think NIK actually believes even half the shit he writes, he's just trying to mess with us.......that is the only explanation, because otherwise he is the most narrow minded, biased sports fan I've come across. Surely its just an act though, right?
I think he believes it for two reasons:
A) It makes him feel important, sort of like a "king of the internet boards" kind of deal.
B) He thinks Lakers read this message board and that they can give him benefits...you know, the kind where he can deliver happy endings if he wants to...
That's why ya'll bitch about my status on this board instead of coming up with arguments, huh? You have nothing to say. BET the Lakers win a championship before the Suns...PeACe
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1. if malone wasn't injured we would have won the championship over the pistons. we lost because the pistons exploited us at the four three and one spot. shaq and kobe were the only producers on the team. if shaq would have stayed we would have won the championship again for at least the next 2 seasons. if he did it with miami, probabilty says he could have done it with LA.
2. the suns have a player called.........AMARE, the player you siad "will neeeeeeeever be the same again".
Amare -24
kobe-28
in the west it's easier to buildaround a big guy than a small guy, remember that, that's why i say the suns will hoist that trophy before the lakers. the suns have other players beside nash they can build around. the lakers three almost four years later are trying to build around kobe, he's only got a few years of prime left before he starts sliding. it's do or die , so far there's been more death than doing.
If, if... IF the Heat weren't the worst champions ever and Shaq was a deciding factor in the series to begin with, maybe I'd give him more credit. Like I said, Shaq on this Lakers roster instead of Kobe would be REALLY sad. Anyone denying this is either a Shaq groupie or a Kobe hater...And LMAO@you putting Amare anywhere near Kobe....Kobe has a few years of prime left? LOL. Jordan just started winning championships at Kobe's age. Have faith in your team...If you still consider them that...PeACe
Worst Champions Ever>>>Lakers
Wow. Dumbest thing ever. But pretty expected...
How's that the dumbest thing ever? Worst Champions ever is still a Champion.
Since the Shaq/Kobe split, Shaq has more playoff appearances, playoff wins, regular season wins, and, most importantly, more rings.
And Shaq is only the SUPPORTING player on a team
his first year he almost won the MVP
the next year he was still in good enough to be on the all nba first team.
he might have been the second punch but that's like calling kobe a supporting player.lol
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why continue to argue with him guys? Nik will ride kobe's dick no matter what, let him say whatever he wants and then this time next year we'll laugh our asses off when kobe is sent fishing again....... ;D
True that, we should quit fucking with NIK altogether, but its just muindblowing the shit he says!
I don't think NIK actually believes even half the shit he writes, he's just trying to mess with us.......that is the only explanation, because otherwise he is the most narrow minded, biased sports fan I've come across. Surely its just an act though, right?
I think he believes it for two reasons:
A) It makes him feel important, sort of like a "king of the internet boards" kind of deal.
B) He thinks Lakers read this message board and that they can give him benefits...you know, the kind where he can deliver happy endings if he wants to...
That's why ya'll bitch about my status on this board instead of coming up with arguments, huh? You have nothing to say. BET the Lakers win a championship before the Suns...PeACe
Not only are you a fucking idiot, but you're a fucking internet geek as well.
"Oooh, I'm a mod on a board on the inter-fucking-net! Bow down to me!"
What a tool...who the fuck cares about status on an internet board?
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why continue to argue with him guys? Nik will ride kobe's dick no matter what, let him say whatever he wants and then this time next year we'll laugh our asses off when kobe is sent fishing again....... ;D
True that, we should quit fucking with NIK altogether, but its just muindblowing the shit he says!
I don't think NIK actually believes even half the shit he writes, he's just trying to mess with us.......that is the only explanation, because otherwise he is the most narrow minded, biased sports fan I've come across. Surely its just an act though, right?
I think he believes it for two reasons:
A) It makes him feel important, sort of like a "king of the internet boards" kind of deal.
B) He thinks Lakers read this message board and that they can give him benefits...you know, the kind where he can deliver happy endings if he wants to...
That's why ya'll bitch about my status on this board instead of coming up with arguments, huh? You have nothing to say. BET the Lakers win a championship before the Suns...PeACe
Not only are you a fucking idiot, but you're a fucking internet geek as well.
"Oooh, I'm a mod on a board on the inter-fucking-net! Bow down to me!"
What a tool...who the fuck cares about status on an internet board?
Exactly, noone gives a fuck about your so-called "status" on this board NIK, we just all wish you would go away so we could have intelligent arguments and discussions without your input.
And really, the Lakers might win one before the Suns in the next 10 years, but if you want to look at the immediate future (2-3 years), the Lakers have no chance while the Suns are still one of the top 5 teams in the league.
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why continue to argue with him guys? Nik will ride kobe's dick no matter what, let him say whatever he wants and then this time next year we'll laugh our asses off when kobe is sent fishing again....... ;D
True that, we should quit fucking with NIK altogether, but its just muindblowing the shit he says!
I don't think NIK actually believes even half the shit he writes, he's just trying to mess with us.......that is the only explanation, because otherwise he is the most narrow minded, biased sports fan I've come across. Surely its just an act though, right?
I think he believes it for two reasons:
A) It makes him feel important, sort of like a "king of the internet boards" kind of deal.
B) He thinks Lakers read this message board and that they can give him benefits...you know, the kind where he can deliver happy endings if he wants to...
That's why ya'll bitch about my status on this board instead of coming up with arguments, huh? You have nothing to say. BET the Lakers win a championship before the Suns...PeACe
Not only are you a fucking idiot, but you're a fucking internet geek as well.
"Oooh, I'm a mod on a board on the inter-fucking-net! Bow down to me!"
What a tool...who the fuck cares about status on an internet board?
Exactly, noone gives a fuck about your so-called "status" on this board NIK, we just all wish you would go away so we could have intelligent arguments and discussions without your input.
And really, the Lakers might win one before the Suns in the next 10 years, but if you want to look at the immediate future (2-3 years), the Lakers have no chance while the Suns are still one of the top 5 teams in the league.
I don't know about that. Nash is getting older and has a bad back (well not McGrady bad but it still bothers him). I don't know how much longer he's gonna be able to play these big minutes to run that offense. The Lakers have some talent, they just more players that actually know what the hell they're doing.
And lol @ internet status.
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I would have never thought this thread would become 3 pages long. I damn near forgot what exactly the point of this thread is.
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why continue to argue with him guys? Nik will ride kobe's dick no matter what, let him say whatever he wants and then this time next year we'll laugh our asses off when kobe is sent fishing again....... ;D
True that, we should quit fucking with NIK altogether, but its just muindblowing the shit he says!
I don't think NIK actually believes even half the shit he writes, he's just trying to mess with us.......that is the only explanation, because otherwise he is the most narrow minded, biased sports fan I've come across. Surely its just an act though, right?
I think he believes it for two reasons:
A) It makes him feel important, sort of like a "king of the internet boards" kind of deal.
B) He thinks Lakers read this message board and that they can give him benefits...you know, the kind where he can deliver happy endings if he wants to...
That's why ya'll bitch about my status on this board instead of coming up with arguments, huh? You have nothing to say. BET the Lakers win a championship before the Suns...PeACe
Not only are you a fucking idiot, but you're a fucking internet geek as well.
"Oooh, I'm a mod on a board on the inter-fucking-net! Bow down to me!"
What a tool...who the fuck cares about status on an internet board?
Exactly, noone gives a fuck about your so-called "status" on this board NIK, we just all wish you would go away so we could have intelligent arguments and discussions without your input.
And really, the Lakers might win one before the Suns in the next 10 years, but if you want to look at the immediate future (2-3 years), the Lakers have no chance while the Suns are still one of the top 5 teams in the league.
I don't know about that. Nash is getting older and has a bad back (well not McGrady bad but it still bothers him). I don't know how much longer he's gonna be able to play these big minutes to run that offense. The Lakers have some talent, they just more players that actually know what the hell they're doing.
And lol @ internet status.
Watch out...Don't say anything positive about the Lakers or negative about the Suns...They might feel like they have no legit arguments, and start flipping out, switching the subject to what they think of you as a person and shit rather than contradicting your points...LOL@tools.
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why continue to argue with him guys? Nik will ride kobe's dick no matter what, let him say whatever he wants and then this time next year we'll laugh our asses off when kobe is sent fishing again....... ;D
True that, we should quit fucking with NIK altogether, but its just muindblowing the shit he says!
I don't think NIK actually believes even half the shit he writes, he's just trying to mess with us.......that is the only explanation, because otherwise he is the most narrow minded, biased sports fan I've come across. Surely its just an act though, right?
I think he believes it for two reasons:
A) It makes him feel important, sort of like a "king of the internet boards" kind of deal.
B) He thinks Lakers read this message board and that they can give him benefits...you know, the kind where he can deliver happy endings if he wants to...
That's why ya'll bitch about my status on this board instead of coming up with arguments, huh? You have nothing to say. BET the Lakers win a championship before the Suns...PeACe
Not only are you a fucking idiot, but you're a fucking internet geek as well.
"Oooh, I'm a mod on a board on the inter-fucking-net! Bow down to me!"
What a tool...who the fuck cares about status on an internet board?
Exactly, noone gives a fuck about your so-called "status" on this board NIK, we just all wish you would go away so we could have intelligent arguments and discussions without your input.
And really, the Lakers might win one before the Suns in the next 10 years, but if you want to look at the immediate future (2-3 years), the Lakers have no chance while the Suns are still one of the top 5 teams in the league.
I don't know about that. Nash is getting older and has a bad back (well not McGrady bad but it still bothers him). I don't know how much longer he's gonna be able to play these big minutes to run that offense. The Lakers have some talent, they just more players that actually know what the hell they're doing.
And lol @ internet status.
Watch out...Don't say anything positive about the Lakers or negative about the Suns...They might feel like they have no legit arguments, and start flipping out, switching the subject to what they think of you as a person and shit rather than contradicting your points...LOL@tools.
It's okay to say positive or negative things about any team. The difference is that you think you are right about everything. You can't accept the fact that people have different opinions. You get your feelings hurt when somebody puts you in your place. The Lakers are not an elite team, that has been proven since Shaq left. The beginning of the season doesn't make a fuck, get over it. Kobe is good, the Lakers are not. Kobe is a great individual player, not a team player. The Suns are better than the Lakers. The Spurs are better than the Lakers. Utah, Denver, Dallas, so on and so forth. Take Shaq away from the Lakers, no titles since the 80's. Facts.
And then you cement yourself with claiming people are jealous about your "status" on the board. Get a life. Go outside or something, shit. Status on an internet board? Get the fuck out of here. Lame.
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why continue to argue with him guys? Nik will ride kobe's dick no matter what, let him say whatever he wants and then this time next year we'll laugh our asses off when kobe is sent fishing again....... ;D
True that, we should quit fucking with NIK altogether, but its just muindblowing the shit he says!
I don't think NIK actually believes even half the shit he writes, he's just trying to mess with us.......that is the only explanation, because otherwise he is the most narrow minded, biased sports fan I've come across. Surely its just an act though, right?
I think he believes it for two reasons:
A) It makes him feel important, sort of like a "king of the internet boards" kind of deal.
B) He thinks Lakers read this message board and that they can give him benefits...you know, the kind where he can deliver happy endings if he wants to...
That's why ya'll bitch about my status on this board instead of coming up with arguments, huh? You have nothing to say. BET the Lakers win a championship before the Suns...PeACe
Not only are you a fucking idiot, but you're a fucking internet geek as well.
"Oooh, I'm a mod on a board on the inter-fucking-net! Bow down to me!"
What a tool...who the fuck cares about status on an internet board?
Exactly, noone gives a fuck about your so-called "status" on this board NIK, we just all wish you would go away so we could have intelligent arguments and discussions without your input.
And really, the Lakers might win one before the Suns in the next 10 years, but if you want to look at the immediate future (2-3 years), the Lakers have no chance while the Suns are still one of the top 5 teams in the league.
I don't know about that. Nash is getting older and has a bad back (well not McGrady bad but it still bothers him). I don't know how much longer he's gonna be able to play these big minutes to run that offense. The Lakers have some talent, they just more players that actually know what the hell they're doing.
And lol @ internet status.
Watch out...Don't say anything positive about the Lakers or negative about the Suns...They might feel like they have no legit arguments, and start flipping out, switching the subject to what they think of you as a person and shit rather than contradicting your points...LOL@tools.
It's okay to say positive or negative things about any team. The difference is that you think you are right about everything. You can't accept the fact that people have different opinions. You get your feelings hurt when somebody puts you in your place. The Lakers are not an elite team, that has been proven since Shaq left. The beginning of the season doesn't make a fuck, get over it. Kobe is good, the Lakers are not. Kobe is a great individual player, not a team player. The Suns are better than the Lakers. The Spurs are better than the Lakers. Utah, Denver, Dallas, so on and so forth. Take Shaq away from the Lakers, no titles since the 80's. Facts.
And then you cement yourself with claiming people are jealous about your "status" on the board. Get a life. Go outside or something, shit. Status on an internet board? Get the fuck out of here. Lame.
You DEFINITELY have ADD. When did I say anything about the Lakers currently being elite? Where did I say anything about people being "jealous of my status"?...And of course I think my opinions are right, shithead... Don't you? You make no sense and you have no arguments. You can't even understand what I'm saying, you pull up the most random shit out your ass and ignore my main points. And Lakers WILL be better than Denver and Utah next season...Mark that.
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Read my post, does it say "currently"?
Put two and two together dumbass.
You've said numerous times that the Lakers were considered elite at the beginning of the year. November doesn't matter.
Fucking 'tard.
Take your "valid" opinions and internet status and get the fuck out of here.
Your main points are nothing. It's the same recycled shit day in and day out.
Opinions are great. Everybody should have one. It's when people think that their's is the only ones that matter that makes things go bad.
For exampe:
Person A: I think Tim Duncan is the best player in the NBA because etc., etc., etc.
Person B: Duncan is good, but I think Kobe is better because etc., etc., etc.
That's how things should go.
With you it's always:
NIK: Duncan???? LOLOLOLOL. Kobe is by far the greatest player in the NBA. Period. Nobody comes close. You are letting the media brainwash you. Duncan is an average player. But can he score 81? Can he go for streaks of 40? Untouchable. Period. Peace. 8)
Get the fuck out of here. Learn to accept other people have different views. Deal with it.
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^^Seems like you're the one getting butthurt over how I express my opinions. Loosen up, bud. If I think it's absurd to think Duncan is greater than Kobe, that's on me...Stop takin everything up the ass.