West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Sccit on May 16, 2013, 11:42:06 AM
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..and will forever taint LeBron's legacy. seriously, they're hands down the favorites and should have a cake-walk the rest of the way with how their all-staresque roster is clicking. everyone's already penciled them in as the winners, with less doubt than any team has ever faced. if they win, it's already expected, not one person out there will be able to say "we didnt see this coming"..but if they lose, the consequences will be much more bitter than the joy of winning would be sweet. barring injury, it will go down as the biggest disappointment in NBA history and LeBron will have lost with EASILY the best supporting cast in the league.....and to be honest, I can see either Indiana or Memphis givin Miami a tough time. should be interesting the rest of the way....... 8)
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..and will forever taint LeBron's legacy. seriously, they're hands down the favorites and should have a cake-walk the rest of the way with how their all-staresque roster is clicking. everyone's already penciled them in as the winners, with less doubt than any team has ever faced. if they win, it's already expected, not one person out there will be able to say "we didnt see this coming"..but if they lose, the consequences will be much more bitter than the joy of winning would be sweet. barring injury, it will go down as the biggest disappointment in NBA history and LeBron will have lost with EASILY the best supporting cast in the league.....and to be honest, I can see either Indiana or Memphis givin Miami a tough time. should be interesting the rest of the way....... 8)
biggest flop in nba history will always be the 03-04 Lakers
4 HOFers and you lose 4-1 to the Pistons with 0 HOFers
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no, because the 03-04 lakers only played 1 season together and suffered vital injuries in the playoffs...not comparable.
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we have a Heat thread Elior, why make a different thread?
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we have a Heat thread Elior, why make a different thread?
hack, stop fuckin up the sports section, cant u see how much better it's been since i took over this shit?...it's boring when everything is in one thread. these kinda threads are the ones that end up bein classic and garner a lotta attention, because theyre bold observations deservin of headlines. trust me, i should know this shit mayn...now come up wit a legit argument or get the fuck out, cuzin.
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shaq, payton, malone and kobe
no ring and they got outplayed majorly ;D
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shaq, payton, malone and kobe
no ring and they got outplayed majorly ;D
injuries+no seasons under their belt to build chemistry. the heat losing to the mavs in 2010 is just as big a bust as that one....but if the heat lose this year, it'll easily eclipse both of those as the biggest bust ever.
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I agree. The Heat had it easy enough... they lead the league by a solid margin, but the Eastern Conference this year just wasn't very strong to begin with (as I think their next-best team -- the Knicks -- still had a lower winning percentage than I think the top four or five teams in the Western Conference), so the playoffs for them until the finals should be a cake walk. Damn near every solid team suffered some serious injuries that severely changed their performance in the playoffs.
I really don't see the Heat falling to anyone on the Western Conference, but yes, that would by far be the biggest flop, considering what they had going into the playoffs, as there's no reason for them to crumble. (The aforementioned Lakers in 2003-2004 had just one season together like that, and the additions were old guys past their prime, so it was disappointing but realistically not expected to be an unstoppable force.)
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I will only think about something like this if the Heat are 3 down. But it's good to know that Scittles stays up at night praying for the Heat to lose.
Dude, just sit back and enjoy the ride.
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I will only think about something like this if the Heat are 3 down. But it's good to know that Scittles stays up at night praying for the Heat to lose.
Dude, just sit back and enjoy the ride.
lmao ur a true loser, u know that? if peeps didnt know better, they'd seriously think u were a heat fan, no lie.
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what makes you even start this thread besides your obsession of hating Lebron? (which goes back to before he was in the NBA even)
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I will only think about something like this if the Heat are 3 down. But it's good to know that Scittles stays up at night praying for the Heat to lose.
Dude, just sit back and enjoy the ride.
lmao ur a true loser, u know that? if peeps didnt know better, they'd seriously think u were a heat fan, no lie.
As I've said many times, the Heat are too small to hate on. It's not like they are the Celtics or anything like that. They are just the best team today. And to me that means nothing as long as it isn't the Celtics.
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what makes you even start this thread besides your obsession of hating Lebron? (which goes back to before he was in the NBA even)
what makes me start this thread is the fact that a.)it's the truth and b.)i dont like the miami heat or the way they were put together...if they flop this year, we can attribute it to karma. not saying they will, but it'll be an interesting revelation.
if me starting this thread somehow upsets u, then ur an irrational heat fan. it aint like im sayin anything wrong or spreading misinformation, like some other cats on here do.
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NIK's been having on the Heat since the Shaq era
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Yeah, they annoyed me a couple of years during the Shaq era too. But in 2008 when the Lakers lost to the Celtics, it reminded me the true Laker's rival, and it isn't the Heat. When LeBron signed with the Heat, that reminded me of the Michael Jordan era, and now that Jordan is retired no one even puts the Bulls on the Laker's level. Which put it all in prospective, I can give a fuck about the Heat, the Bulls or any other team. I want Boston to suck.
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Yeah, they annoyed me a couple of years during the Shaq era too. But in 2008 when the Lakers lost to the Celtics, it reminded me the true Laker's rival, and it isn't the Heat. When LeBron signed with the Heat, that reminded me of the Michael Jordan era, and now that Jordan is retired no one even puts the Bulls on the Laker's level. Which put it all in prospective, I can give a fuck about the Heat, the Bulls or any other team. I want Boston to suck.
well if dumbass Ainge trades Rondo then you might get your wish
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Yeah, they annoyed me a couple of years during the Shaq era too. But in 2008 when the Lakers lost to the Celtics, it reminded me the true Laker's rival, and it isn't the Heat. When LeBron signed with the Heat, that reminded me of the Michael Jordan era, and now that Jordan is retired no one even puts the Bulls on the Laker's level. Which put it all in prospective, I can give a fuck about the Heat, the Bulls or any other team. I want Boston to suck.
well if dumbass Ainge trades Rondo then you might get your wish
It would make post 2014 at least tolerable.
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NIK youre a straight up hater. Just start trying to deal with the fact it didnt work out for the Lakers this year. Stop hating on a real team, like Miami. You would suck every drop out of LeBrons dick if he was a Laker, even more than you already do for Kobe. Give me your best welching comeback ya bish.
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what makes you even start this thread besides your obsession of hating Lebron? (which goes back to before he was in the NBA even)
what makes me start this thread is the fact that a.)it's the truth and b.)i dont like the miami heat or the way they were put together...if they flop this year, we can attribute it to karma. not saying they will, but it'll be an interesting revelation.
if me starting this thread somehow upsets u, then ur an irrational heat fan. it aint like im sayin anything wrong or spreading misinformation, like some other cats on here do.
so you don't like the way te heat were put together, but have no problem with the lakers ridiculous payroll
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i dunno man LAs flop this year was epic.
EVERYONE was talking about the new look lakers.
them niggas looked tired before the season started.
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i dunno man LAs flop this year was epic.
EVERYONE was talking about the new look lakers.
them niggas looked tired before the season started.
thinking outside the box, i like this
Lakers have 3 HOFers and Pau Gasol and get swept as the 7th seed
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I'm a laker fan but I think our team this year might of been the biggest flop in NBA history. Now you can throw in all the injuries and shit but it was still bad.
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so you don't like the way te heat were put together, but have no problem with the lakers ridiculous payroll
oh snap!
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In retrospect, the Nash trade was HORRIBLE. But that's in retrospect, I know that everyone was hoping Nash had one or two more years. But it wasn't to be. The 2014 draft is very important. If Kobe can't comeback, we might be looking that the lotto, which looking at the 2014 talent, is NOT a bad thing. But that's speculation.
Bottom line, the Lakers built a roster that was suppose to perform but injuries killed them. They only had 7 games with the starting lineup of Nash, Bryant, Artest, Gasol and Howard. Also, this year exposed Howard as someone who can't take the LA pressure. With lesser talent in Orlando, Howard led the Magic to the NBA Finals, but under the bright lights in LA he can't cut it. Of course, judging by the productive year Bynum had, I'd make the Howard trade again and again and again, even in retrospect. So with that said, the Laker's season was still a flop, and a bit frustrating.
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i dunno man LAs flop this year was epic.
EVERYONE was talking about the new look lakers.
them niggas looked tired before the season started.
injuries and not enough time to build chemistry is why were not the biggest flop. no one truly thought we'd win the championship in the first season without a doubt like everyone's currently sayin bout miami.
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what makes you even start this thread besides your obsession of hating Lebron? (which goes back to before he was in the NBA even)
what makes me start this thread is the fact that a.)it's the truth and b.)i dont like the miami heat or the way they were put together...if they flop this year, we can attribute it to karma. not saying they will, but it'll be an interesting revelation.
if me starting this thread somehow upsets u, then ur an irrational heat fan. it aint like im sayin anything wrong or spreading misinformation, like some other cats on here do.
so you don't like the way te heat were put together, but have no problem with the lakers ridiculous payroll
we got our team through signing players and making trades...3 franchise players didnt get together and develop a plan to join together during free agency. thats pretty much collusion.
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..and will forever taint LeBron's legacy. seriously, they're hands down the favorites and should have a cake-walk the rest of the way with how their all-staresque roster is clicking. everyone's already penciled them in as the winners, with less doubt than any team has ever faced. if they win, it's already expected, not one person out there will be able to say "we didnt see this coming"..but if they lose, the consequences will be much more bitter than the joy of winning would be sweet. barring injury, it will go down as the biggest disappointment in NBA history and LeBron will have lost with EASILY the best supporting cast in the league.....and to be honest, I can see either Indiana or Memphis givin Miami a tough time. should be interesting the rest of the way....... 8)
biggest flop in nba history will always be the 03-04 Lakers
4 HOFers and you lose 4-1 to the Pistons with 0 HOFers
Practically it was 5-0 but the pistons took their foot off the lakers throats in game 2. They didn't make that same mistake the rest of the series :)
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It'll be a flop, but not the biggest in history, far from it. If Heat lost in the final last year and did the same this year..... then yeah, but nah....
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Yeah, if the Heat didn't win a title by now, that would be a flop. But since they won last year I think people will forgive them if they don't win this year. But as I watch the Heat, Wade is slowing down it seems by the day. He is not Flash anymore. I'd say the window of winning titles is actually a lot close to closing than we think for the Heat. Unless Pat Riley gets some really good young players soon.
Biggest flop in NBA history. hum.... I'd say the 2003-2004 Lakers, Maybe the 1993-1994 New York Knicks, especially since they haven't won an NBA title since the 70's, I think the 1995-1996 Orlando Magic was pretty disappointing because everyone thought it was Shaq and Penny's year, 2007-2008 Cleveland Cavaliers has to be up there, 1968-1969 Los Angeles Lakers are about even with the 2003-2004 Lakers. So from that list, pick 'em. When I look at the history, the 1970's didn't have any of those big loaded squad. Maybe because the whole ABA thing and expansion. But the 70's didn't have the big loaded rosters like the 60's, 80's, 90's and 2000's. And the 80's, those big name teams always seemed to find a way to win.
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i honestly dont think they need wade to win a championship.
hes nice to have when hes healthy and in production mode but, yeah....
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i dunno man LAs flop this year was epic.
EVERYONE was talking about the new look lakers.
them niggas looked tired before the season started.
injuries and not enough time to build chemistry is why were not the biggest flop. no one truly thought we'd win the championship in the first season without a doubt like everyone's currently sayin bout miami.
not true man you can go to damn near any sports site and run that clock back to last fall...cats just KNEW they were going to at least take their division, to watch them struggle to make the playoffs was like a bad soap opera...just like cats KNEW miami was gonna win their first year together i wasnt surprised at all they didnt...but yeah man the lakers thought they had the new dynasty set then they fucked up their karma when they fucked with the zen master...
just the way they handled that situation with phil jackson was one of the biggest basketball flops of all time in my opinion.
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i dunno man LAs flop this year was epic.
EVERYONE was talking about the new look lakers.
them niggas looked tired before the season started.
injuries and not enough time to build chemistry is why were not the biggest flop. no one truly thought we'd win the championship in the first season without a doubt like everyone's currently sayin bout miami.
not true man you can go to damn near any sports site and run that clock back to last fall...cats just KNEW they were going to at least take their division, to watch them struggle to make the playoffs was like a bad soap opera...just like cats KNEW miami was gonna win their first year together i wasnt surprised at all they didnt...but yeah man the lakers thought they had the new dynasty set then they fucked up their karma when they fucked with the zen master...
just the way they handled that situation with phil jackson was one of the biggest basketball flops of all time in my opinion.
yea, but like i said, it wasnt championship or bust, considering it was our first year with everyone playing together..and more importantly, we only played 7 games with the starting lineup that included all 4 stars. the injuries were up there with any other laker season in laker histroy....thats what makes it not comparable in terms of busts.
i agree with letting phil walk bein one of the more disgraceful decisions in laker management history, tho.
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if Kobe is even comparable MJ or Lebron then every team with Kobe should be championship or bust, right? :D
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It'll be a flop, but not the biggest in history, far from it. If Heat lost in the final last year and did the same this year..... then yeah, but nah....
far from it? what other team was favorited as much as miami is right now and didnt win? dont worry, i'll wait.
last year wouldnt have been as big a bust...but they have ray allen, shane battier, chris anderson hittin on all cylinders. theyre so stacked, mike miller cant even sniff PT. same mike miller who had a couple 20 point games less than a month ago. rashard lewis averaged 12 points in 28 minutes in april...cant even get off the bench in the playoffs. the depth is ridiculous. come on, now.
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if Kobe is even comparable MJ or Lebron then every team with Kobe should be championship or bust, right? :D
so 9 years of MJ's+lebron's career were busts? ur trollin makes u look dumb sometimes
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Yeah, if the Heat didn't win a title by now, that would be a flop. But since they won last year I think people will forgive them if they don't win this year. But as I watch the Heat, Wade is slowing down it seems by the day. He is not Flash anymore. I'd say the window of winning titles is actually a lot close to closing than we think for the Heat. Unless Pat Riley gets some really good young players soon.
Biggest flop in NBA history. hum.... I'd say the 2003-2004 Lakers, Maybe the 1993-1994 New York Knicks, especially since they haven't won an NBA title since the 70's, I think the 1995-1996 Orlando Magic was pretty disappointing because everyone thought it was Shaq and Penny's year, 2007-2008 Cleveland Cavaliers has to be up there, 1968-1969 Los Angeles Lakers are about even with the 2003-2004 Lakers. So from that list, pick 'em. When I look at the history, the 1970's didn't have any of those big loaded squad. Maybe because the whole ABA thing and expansion. But the 70's didn't have the big loaded rosters like the 60's, 80's, 90's and 2000's. And the 80's, those big name teams always seemed to find a way to win.
lol those are all some terrible choices for worst flop in nba history
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Yeah, if the Heat didn't win a title by now, that would be a flop. But since they won last year I think people will forgive them if they don't win this year. But as I watch the Heat, Wade is slowing down it seems by the day. He is not Flash anymore. I'd say the window of winning titles is actually a lot close to closing than we think for the Heat. Unless Pat Riley gets some really good young players soon.
Biggest flop in NBA history. hum.... I'd say the 2003-2004 Lakers, Maybe the 1993-1994 New York Knicks, especially since they haven't won an NBA title since the 70's, I think the 1995-1996 Orlando Magic was pretty disappointing because everyone thought it was Shaq and Penny's year, 2007-2008 Cleveland Cavaliers has to be up there, 1968-1969 Los Angeles Lakers are about even with the 2003-2004 Lakers. So from that list, pick 'em. When I look at the history, the 1970's didn't have any of those big loaded squad. Maybe because the whole ABA thing and expansion. But the 70's didn't have the big loaded rosters like the 60's, 80's, 90's and 2000's. And the 80's, those big name teams always seemed to find a way to win.
lol those are all some terrible choices for worst flop in nba history
I don't know, the 1969 Lakers were suppose to win with Wilt, the 1994 Knicks were finally suppose to win with Jordan out the league, the 1996 Magic were getting all the hype and people thought at the beginning of the year that the Bulls couldn't keep up, but once the Bulls won 72 wins then expectations changed, 2008 Cavs had all those LeBron commercials and then the MVPuppets, it was a mess.
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i dunno man LAs flop this year was epic.
EVERYONE was talking about the new look lakers.
them niggas looked tired before the season started.
injuries and not enough time to build chemistry is why were not the biggest flop. no one truly thought we'd win the championship in the first season without a doubt like everyone's currently sayin bout miami.
not true man you can go to damn near any sports site and run that clock back to last fall...cats just KNEW they were going to at least take their division, to watch them struggle to make the playoffs was like a bad soap opera...just like cats KNEW miami was gonna win their first year together i wasnt surprised at all they didnt...but yeah man the lakers thought they had the new dynasty set then they fucked up their karma when they fucked with the zen master...
just the way they handled that situation with phil jackson was one of the biggest basketball flops of all time in my opinion.
yea, but like i said, it wasnt championship or bust, considering it was our first year with everyone playing together..and more importantly, we only played 7 games with the starting lineup that included all 4 stars. the injuries were up there with any other laker season in laker histroy....thats what makes it not comparable in terms of busts.
i agree with letting phil walk bein one of the more disgraceful decisions in laker management history, tho.
no seriously man, that shit they did with phil was one of the dumbest descisions IN BASKETBALL HISTORY. i dont think ive ever watched a legendary team melt from the inside out like that.
from the death of jim buss to kobes achilles to dwight/nash almost being a non factor, the injuries then the way they just let one of the best coaches of any sport EVER slip through there fingers like that...fuck.
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Yeah, if the Heat didn't win a title by now, that would be a flop. But since they won last year I think people will forgive them if they don't win this year. But as I watch the Heat, Wade is slowing down it seems by the day. He is not Flash anymore. I'd say the window of winning titles is actually a lot close to closing than we think for the Heat. Unless Pat Riley gets some really good young players soon.
Biggest flop in NBA history. hum.... I'd say the 2003-2004 Lakers, Maybe the 1993-1994 New York Knicks, especially since they haven't won an NBA title since the 70's, I think the 1995-1996 Orlando Magic was pretty disappointing because everyone thought it was Shaq and Penny's year, 2007-2008 Cleveland Cavaliers has to be up there, 1968-1969 Los Angeles Lakers are about even with the 2003-2004 Lakers. So from that list, pick 'em. When I look at the history, the 1970's didn't have any of those big loaded squad. Maybe because the whole ABA thing and expansion. But the 70's didn't have the big loaded rosters like the 60's, 80's, 90's and 2000's. And the 80's, those big name teams always seemed to find a way to win.
lol those are all some terrible choices for worst flop in nba history
I don't know, the 1969 Lakers were suppose to win with Wilt, the 1994 Knicks were finally suppose to win with Jordan out the league, the 1996 Magic were getting all the hype and people thought at the beginning of the year that the Bulls couldn't keep up, but once the Bulls won 72 wins then expectations changed, 2008 Cavs had all those LeBron commercials and then the MVPuppets, it was a mess.
the difference is, they were all competing with great teams....they werent hands-down favorites like the heat are this year, u get what im sayin?
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i dunno man LAs flop this year was epic.
EVERYONE was talking about the new look lakers.
them niggas looked tired before the season started.
injuries and not enough time to build chemistry is why were not the biggest flop. no one truly thought we'd win the championship in the first season without a doubt like everyone's currently sayin bout miami.
not true man you can go to damn near any sports site and run that clock back to last fall...cats just KNEW they were going to at least take their division, to watch them struggle to make the playoffs was like a bad soap opera...just like cats KNEW miami was gonna win their first year together i wasnt surprised at all they didnt...but yeah man the lakers thought they had the new dynasty set then they fucked up their karma when they fucked with the zen master...
just the way they handled that situation with phil jackson was one of the biggest basketball flops of all time in my opinion.
yea, but like i said, it wasnt championship or bust, considering it was our first year with everyone playing together..and more importantly, we only played 7 games with the starting lineup that included all 4 stars. the injuries were up there with any other laker season in laker histroy....thats what makes it not comparable in terms of busts.
i agree with letting phil walk bein one of the more disgraceful decisions in laker management history, tho.
no seriously man, that shit they did with phil was one of the dumbest descisions IN BASKETBALL HISTORY. i dont think ive ever watched a legendary team melt from the inside out like that.
from the death of jim buss to kobes achilles to dwight/nash almost being a non factor, the injuries then the way they just let one of the best coaches of any sport EVER slip through there fingers like that...fuck.
real shit
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Yeah, if the Heat didn't win a title by now, that would be a flop. But since they won last year I think people will forgive them if they don't win this year. But as I watch the Heat, Wade is slowing down it seems by the day. He is not Flash anymore. I'd say the window of winning titles is actually a lot close to closing than we think for the Heat. Unless Pat Riley gets some really good young players soon.
Biggest flop in NBA history. hum.... I'd say the 2003-2004 Lakers, Maybe the 1993-1994 New York Knicks, especially since they haven't won an NBA title since the 70's, I think the 1995-1996 Orlando Magic was pretty disappointing because everyone thought it was Shaq and Penny's year, 2007-2008 Cleveland Cavaliers has to be up there, 1968-1969 Los Angeles Lakers are about even with the 2003-2004 Lakers. So from that list, pick 'em. When I look at the history, the 1970's didn't have any of those big loaded squad. Maybe because the whole ABA thing and expansion. But the 70's didn't have the big loaded rosters like the 60's, 80's, 90's and 2000's. And the 80's, those big name teams always seemed to find a way to win.
lol those are all some terrible choices for worst flop in nba history
I don't know, the 1969 Lakers were suppose to win with Wilt, the 1994 Knicks were finally suppose to win with Jordan out the league, the 1996 Magic were getting all the hype and people thought at the beginning of the year that the Bulls couldn't keep up, but once the Bulls won 72 wins then expectations changed, 2008 Cavs had all those LeBron commercials and then the MVPuppets, it was a mess.
the difference is, they were all competing with great teams....they werent hands-down favorites like the heat are this year, u get what im sayin?
Not really because we can only judge great teams by what they do, not what we expect them to do. So if that 2004 Lakers team just destroys the league, then we'd say there was no other great team. If the 1996 Magic team won, then people would have said, well Jordan and the Bulls were washed up. But now we can say, well those 2004 Pistons shocked the world, and they played like a team, or the 1996 Bulls were historically greats. In 2008, everyone thought that it was LeBron's time, and people questioned Boston's Big 3 and if they could gel. Well now we say of course they can gel but in 2011 the Heat couldn't and we thought that was a disappointment. If the Heat didn't win in 2012, then we'd look at 2011 as a HUGE flop. So many of these things are only seen in retrospect. If say Memphis wins this year, they'd get 2004 Piston status as a real team, or if the Spurs win they'd get 1969 Celtics status as that great team making that last great run.
That's the sad part of all these debates, much of this is speculation. Like you put up a thread basically saying the Heat have to win or they are a flop. While it's been like that since the summer of 2010. At the same time, last year if OKC would have won, then we would argue that was the start of their rise and we'd talk about them as a great dynasty. The only way we can truly judge it is to let it all pass and then look and say, well this is where the Heat are historically and bla bla bla...
Personally, I think the Heat are a great team, put together by Pat Riley who knows how to get these type of teams going and he hired a coach who he personally groomed. Am I shocked that the Heat are in this position? No. Would it be a flop if they lose? Yes. Would it be bigger than the 2004 Lakers? No. Do I expect the Heat to lose? No.
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Yeah, if the Heat didn't win a title by now, that would be a flop. But since they won last year I think people will forgive them if they don't win this year. But as I watch the Heat, Wade is slowing down it seems by the day. He is not Flash anymore. I'd say the window of winning titles is actually a lot close to closing than we think for the Heat. Unless Pat Riley gets some really good young players soon.
Biggest flop in NBA history. hum.... I'd say the 2003-2004 Lakers, Maybe the 1993-1994 New York Knicks, especially since they haven't won an NBA title since the 70's, I think the 1995-1996 Orlando Magic was pretty disappointing because everyone thought it was Shaq and Penny's year, 2007-2008 Cleveland Cavaliers has to be up there, 1968-1969 Los Angeles Lakers are about even with the 2003-2004 Lakers. So from that list, pick 'em. When I look at the history, the 1970's didn't have any of those big loaded squad. Maybe because the whole ABA thing and expansion. But the 70's didn't have the big loaded rosters like the 60's, 80's, 90's and 2000's. And the 80's, those big name teams always seemed to find a way to win.
lol those are all some terrible choices for worst flop in nba history
I don't know, the 1969 Lakers were suppose to win with Wilt, the 1994 Knicks were finally suppose to win with Jordan out the league, the 1996 Magic were getting all the hype and people thought at the beginning of the year that the Bulls couldn't keep up, but once the Bulls won 72 wins then expectations changed, 2008 Cavs had all those LeBron commercials and then the MVPuppets, it was a mess.
the difference is, they were all competing with great teams....they werent hands-down favorites like the heat are this year, u get what im sayin?
Not really because we can only judge great teams by what they do, not what we expect them to do. So if that 2004 Lakers team just destroys the league, then we'd say there was no other great team. If the 1996 Magic team won, then people would have said, well Jordan and the Bulls were washed up. But now we can say, well those 2004 Pistons shocked the world, and they played like a team, or the 1996 Bulls were historically greats. In 2008, everyone thought that it was LeBron's time, and people questioned Boston's Big 3 and if they could gel. Well now we say of course they can gel but in 2011 the Heat couldn't and we thought that was a disappointment. If the Heat didn't win in 2012, then we'd look at 2011 as a HUGE flop. So many of these things are only seen in retrospect. If say Memphis wins this year, they'd get 2004 Piston status as a real team, or if the Spurs win they'd get 1969 Celtics status as that great team making that last great run.
That's the sad part of all these debates, much of this is speculation. Like you put up a thread basically saying the Heat have to win or they are a flop. While it's been like that since the summer of 2010. At the same time, last year if OKC would have won, then we would argue that was the start of their rise and we'd talk about them as a great dynasty. The only way we can truly judge it is to let it all pass and then look and say, well this is where the Heat are historically and bla bla bla...
Personally, I think the Heat are a great team, put together by Pat Riley who knows how to get these type of teams going and he hired a coach who he personally groomed. Am I shocked that the Heat are in this position? No. Would it be a flop if they lose? Yes. Would it be bigger than the 2004 Lakers? No. Do I expect the Heat to lose? No.
If u don't see the difference between the odds placed on the heat to win this year compared to previous years, then ur dumber than I thought.
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the Lakers have 3 HOFers and Pau Gasol
result? 7th seed :D
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the Lakers have 3 HOFers and Pau Gasol
result? 7th seed :D
And only manages to play 7 games with the startin lineup .. Slap yaself for runnin outa troll material.
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oh, so only having 2 HOFers for most of the season is an excuse to suck?
stop making excuses brobro
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oh, so only having 2 HOFers for most of the season is an excuse to suck?
stop making excuses brobro
Don't be dumb, lakeshow was 28-11 after Allstar break.. Before that, we had 3 coaches and new players getting to know each other on a depleted team learning a new system in the first two months. Nothing is expected under those circumstances.
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Lmfao @ NIK taking up an insurance policy on Bron's career after Phil basically said Kobe is ass.
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oh, so only having 2 HOFers for most of the season is an excuse to suck?
stop making excuses brobro
Don't be dumb, lakeshow was 28-11 after Allstar break.. Before that, we had 3 coaches and new players getting to know each other on a depleted team learning a new system in the first two months. Nothing is expected under those circumstances.
why were sports illustrated and espn magazine both picking the Lakers to win the west? :D
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We're talking about the same nigga who said "If the Heat play like this, the Pacers win the series".
More or less put his basketball credibility on the line and said he's picking the Pacers to win...yet, if the Heat lose, that's a flop lol.
Moderator of the Sports Section, ladies and gentlemen, MODERATOR.
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We're talking about the same nigga who said "If the Heat play like this, the Pacers win the series".
More or less put his basketball credibility on the line and said he's picking the Pacers to win...yet, if the Heat lose, that's a flop lol.
Moderator of the Sports Section, ladies and gentlemen, MODERATOR.
moderator of a sports forum... son gettin his panties wet, makin it seem like im the commisioner of the nba. many credible analysts saying indiana will give miami a tough time. miami is known for playing down to their competition until the final minutes. they were a nate robinson shot away from being 3-2 heading to chicago. all im sayin is they cant play like that against indiana and expect the same results, nutrider
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Lmfao @ NIK taking up an insurance policy on Bron's career after Phil basically said Kobe is ass.
smh@making up lies to protect ur lovers legacy, which is still in question
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oh, so only having 2 HOFers for most of the season is an excuse to suck?
stop making excuses brobro
Don't be dumb, lakeshow was 28-11 after Allstar break.. Before that, we had 3 coaches and new players getting to know each other on a depleted team learning a new system in the first two months. Nothing is expected under those circumstances.
why were sports illustrated and espn magazine both picking the Lakers to win the west? :D
cuz they didnt know we were guna have 3 different coaches and the starting line-up together for only 7 games :stupid:
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Yeah, if the Heat didn't win a title by now, that would be a flop. But since they won last year I think people will forgive them if they don't win this year. But as I watch the Heat, Wade is slowing down it seems by the day. He is not Flash anymore. I'd say the window of winning titles is actually a lot close to closing than we think for the Heat. Unless Pat Riley gets some really good young players soon.
Biggest flop in NBA history. hum.... I'd say the 2003-2004 Lakers, Maybe the 1993-1994 New York Knicks, especially since they haven't won an NBA title since the 70's, I think the 1995-1996 Orlando Magic was pretty disappointing because everyone thought it was Shaq and Penny's year, 2007-2008 Cleveland Cavaliers has to be up there, 1968-1969 Los Angeles Lakers are about even with the 2003-2004 Lakers. So from that list, pick 'em. When I look at the history, the 1970's didn't have any of those big loaded squad. Maybe because the whole ABA thing and expansion. But the 70's didn't have the big loaded rosters like the 60's, 80's, 90's and 2000's. And the 80's, those big name teams always seemed to find a way to win.
lol those are all some terrible choices for worst flop in nba history
I don't know, the 1969 Lakers were suppose to win with Wilt, the 1994 Knicks were finally suppose to win with Jordan out the league, the 1996 Magic were getting all the hype and people thought at the beginning of the year that the Bulls couldn't keep up, but once the Bulls won 72 wins then expectations changed, 2008 Cavs had all those LeBron commercials and then the MVPuppets, it was a mess.
the difference is, they were all competing with great teams....they werent hands-down favorites like the heat are this year, u get what im sayin?
Not really because we can only judge great teams by what they do, not what we expect them to do. So if that 2004 Lakers team just destroys the league, then we'd say there was no other great team. If the 1996 Magic team won, then people would have said, well Jordan and the Bulls were washed up. But now we can say, well those 2004 Pistons shocked the world, and they played like a team, or the 1996 Bulls were historically greats. In 2008, everyone thought that it was LeBron's time, and people questioned Boston's Big 3 and if they could gel. Well now we say of course they can gel but in 2011 the Heat couldn't and we thought that was a disappointment. If the Heat didn't win in 2012, then we'd look at 2011 as a HUGE flop. So many of these things are only seen in retrospect. If say Memphis wins this year, they'd get 2004 Piston status as a real team, or if the Spurs win they'd get 1969 Celtics status as that great team making that last great run.
That's the sad part of all these debates, much of this is speculation. Like you put up a thread basically saying the Heat have to win or they are a flop. While it's been like that since the summer of 2010. At the same time, last year if OKC would have won, then we would argue that was the start of their rise and we'd talk about them as a great dynasty. The only way we can truly judge it is to let it all pass and then look and say, well this is where the Heat are historically and bla bla bla...
Personally, I think the Heat are a great team, put together by Pat Riley who knows how to get these type of teams going and he hired a coach who he personally groomed. Am I shocked that the Heat are in this position? No. Would it be a flop if they lose? Yes. Would it be bigger than the 2004 Lakers? No. Do I expect the Heat to lose? No.
If u don't see the difference between the odds placed on the heat to win this year compared to previous years, then ur dumber than I thought.
The odds were high because they already won. But there was some OKC movement and LAL movement too. So your point is mute.
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Yeah, if the Heat didn't win a title by now, that would be a flop. But since they won last year I think people will forgive them if they don't win this year. But as I watch the Heat, Wade is slowing down it seems by the day. He is not Flash anymore. I'd say the window of winning titles is actually a lot close to closing than we think for the Heat. Unless Pat Riley gets some really good young players soon.
Biggest flop in NBA history. hum.... I'd say the 2003-2004 Lakers, Maybe the 1993-1994 New York Knicks, especially since they haven't won an NBA title since the 70's, I think the 1995-1996 Orlando Magic was pretty disappointing because everyone thought it was Shaq and Penny's year, 2007-2008 Cleveland Cavaliers has to be up there, 1968-1969 Los Angeles Lakers are about even with the 2003-2004 Lakers. So from that list, pick 'em. When I look at the history, the 1970's didn't have any of those big loaded squad. Maybe because the whole ABA thing and expansion. But the 70's didn't have the big loaded rosters like the 60's, 80's, 90's and 2000's. And the 80's, those big name teams always seemed to find a way to win.
lol those are all some terrible choices for worst flop in nba history
I don't know, the 1969 Lakers were suppose to win with Wilt, the 1994 Knicks were finally suppose to win with Jordan out the league, the 1996 Magic were getting all the hype and people thought at the beginning of the year that the Bulls couldn't keep up, but once the Bulls won 72 wins then expectations changed, 2008 Cavs had all those LeBron commercials and then the MVPuppets, it was a mess.
the difference is, they were all competing with great teams....they werent hands-down favorites like the heat are this year, u get what im sayin?
Not really because we can only judge great teams by what they do, not what we expect them to do. So if that 2004 Lakers team just destroys the league, then we'd say there was no other great team. If the 1996 Magic team won, then people would have said, well Jordan and the Bulls were washed up. But now we can say, well those 2004 Pistons shocked the world, and they played like a team, or the 1996 Bulls were historically greats. In 2008, everyone thought that it was LeBron's time, and people questioned Boston's Big 3 and if they could gel. Well now we say of course they can gel but in 2011 the Heat couldn't and we thought that was a disappointment. If the Heat didn't win in 2012, then we'd look at 2011 as a HUGE flop. So many of these things are only seen in retrospect. If say Memphis wins this year, they'd get 2004 Piston status as a real team, or if the Spurs win they'd get 1969 Celtics status as that great team making that last great run.
That's the sad part of all these debates, much of this is speculation. Like you put up a thread basically saying the Heat have to win or they are a flop. While it's been like that since the summer of 2010. At the same time, last year if OKC would have won, then we would argue that was the start of their rise and we'd talk about them as a great dynasty. The only way we can truly judge it is to let it all pass and then look and say, well this is where the Heat are historically and bla bla bla...
Personally, I think the Heat are a great team, put together by Pat Riley who knows how to get these type of teams going and he hired a coach who he personally groomed. Am I shocked that the Heat are in this position? No. Would it be a flop if they lose? Yes. Would it be bigger than the 2004 Lakers? No. Do I expect the Heat to lose? No.
If u don't see the difference between the odds placed on the heat to win this year compared to previous years, then ur dumber than I thought.
The odds were high because they already won. But there was some OKC movement and LAL movement too. So your point is mute.
:stupid:
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We're talking about the same nigga who said "If the Heat play like this, the Pacers win the series".
More or less put his basketball credibility on the line and said he's picking the Pacers to win...yet, if the Heat lose, that's a flop lol.
Moderator of the Sports Section, ladies and gentlemen, MODERATOR.
moderator of a sports forum... son gettin his panties wet, makin it seem like im the commisioner of the nba. many credible analysts saying indiana will give miami a tough time. miami is known for playing down to their competition until the final minutes. they were a nate robinson shot away from being 3-2 heading to chicago. all im sayin is they cant play like that against indiana and expect the same results, nutrider
...so what you said was Indiana has an opportunity to beat them and Wade's knee is in question. Therefore, losing to a team you think already has a chance to win, isn't really all that big of a flop.
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Dude is lashing out since he knows Kobe is cooked with his Achilles injury. Give him some time to get his head right and maybe he'll improve his posting.
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The greatest paper champs in history gotta go to that laker team that lost to the pistons in the finals lol i remember the mailman lived next door to kobe and was tapping his wifey
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karl malone or a us postal worker?
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The greatest paper champs in history gotta go to that laker team that lost to the pistons in the finals lol i remember the mailman lived next door to kobe and was tapping his wifey
8)
since John Stockton never won a ring it was only right that the Mailman never won one either. i always wonder if the Jazz could have won a title with Phil Jackson instead of Sloan. Imagine if they trade jobs and meet in the finals lol
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karl malone or a us postal worker?
karl bro
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Hunting little Mexican girls
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if the heat don't win, lebron will be 1-4 in the finals..........that would put his legacy at great jeopardy and comparisons with kobe, jordan etc. would come to an immediate halt. a lot is riding on his shoulders right about now, fellas
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Only to ignorance like you.
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Only to ignorance like you.
so bein 1-4 in the finals aint a bad look for his legacy? how much do u want his cock, seriously??
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He should even have been able to reach it with that Cleveland roster.
Dallas, okay, that was bad.
If they happen to lose this year, even though I don't think they will, it depends on his play. If son averages a triple-double and Wade and Bosh and the roles come up hella short, that's not his fault. Kobe never had to overcome Shaq or Pau sucking dick and make up for it. MJ didn't get any shitty plays out of Pippen and Kerr hit those threes for him.
And since you're so caught up in how the rest of the world views his legacy, I'll let you on how it goes down...it doesn't matter if he loses this series, if he calls it quits with four-five rings, Kobe will be an after thought.
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He should even have been able to reach it with that Cleveland roster.
Dallas, okay, that was bad.
If they happen to lose this year, even though I don't think they will, it depends on his play. If son averages a triple-double and Wade and Bosh and the roles come up hella short, that's not his fault. Kobe never had to overcome Shaq or Pau sucking dick and make up for it. MJ didn't get any shitty plays out of Pippen and Kerr hit those threes for him.
And since you're so caught up in how the rest of the world views his legacy, I'll let you on how it goes down...it doesn't matter if he loses this series, if he calls it quits with four-five rings, Kobe will be an after thought.
if his supporting cast of superstars (lol) cants step up, who do u think that falls on? lebron's game is supposed to be to make everyone around him better...if his supporting cast comes up short, it falls on him, as he is the team leader. theres no way around it, if they lose, it will look extremely bad on the resume.
lmao@kobe being an afterthought. classic.
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If LeBron keeps this play up for four or five more years and wins three, four or five more titles, how the hell are you going to come close to defending Kobe? Lmao.
And you're talking like he didn't win 27 games in a row, 48 of 52 with those "superstars". It's not his fault if they do what they've been doing and those two play like shit.
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If LeBron keeps this play up for four or five more years and wins three, four or five more titles, how the hell are you going to come close to defending Kobe? Lmao.
And you're talking like he didn't win 27 games in a row, 48 of 52 with those "superstars". It's not his fault if they do what they've been doing and those two play like shit.
If they win 27 in a row and lose in the finals, that's an even worse look... Goes hand n hand wit the lechoke moniker
And stop with the what ifs.. He still only has 0.5 titles right now, not 5
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Luuuuulz at .5. Ban this nigga.
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Luuuuulz at .5. Ban this nigga.
did he not win in a shortened season? everyone knows young, athletic teams benefit from that. if he ends his career with that as his only title, it would be pretty damn terrible. he'd have had a nice career, but like i said, the mj-kobe talks would be instantly deaded.
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Legacy wise. Sure.
But straight up comparing who is a better basketball player, none of that matters. Duncan has a greater legacy than KG, but scratch all that, put them in their primes and that's a pretty close toss-up.
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Legacy wise. Sure.
But straight up comparing who is a better basketball player, none of that matters. Duncan has a greater legacy than KG, but scratch all that, put them in their primes and that's a pretty close toss-up.
bynum in 2012 in his prime was also the best center in the nba....but that dont matter, because players are not judged on how good they were when they were at their best, but rather what theyve accomplished throughout their career. kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...wilt at his best would leave lebron at his best with 15 points, max.
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No, LeBron would not be beaten by anyone...hence my argument.
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Legacy wise. Sure.
But straight up comparing who is a better basketball player, none of that matters. Duncan has a greater legacy than KG, but scratch all that, put them in their primes and that's a pretty close toss-up.
bynum in 2012 in his prime was also the best center in the nba....but that dont matter, because players are not judged on how good they were when they were at their best, but rather what theyve accomplished throughout their career. kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...wilt at his best would leave lebron at his best with 15 points, max.
You say Kobe at his best was better than MJ at his best... GOD DAMN KID! Please stop smoking. You done smoked yourself retarted!
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Legacy wise. Sure.
But straight up comparing who is a better basketball player, none of that matters. Duncan has a greater legacy than KG, but scratch all that, put them in their primes and that's a pretty close toss-up.
bynum in 2012 in his prime was also the best center in the nba....but that dont matter, because players are not judged on how good they were when they were at their best, but rather what theyve accomplished throughout their career. kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...wilt at his best would leave lebron at his best with 15 points, max.
You say Kobe at his best was better than MJ at his best... GOD DAMN KID! Please stop smoking. You done smoked yourself retarted!
Ugh does Kobe eat Vegi-mite pizza
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kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
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Legacy wise. Sure.
But straight up comparing who is a better basketball player, none of that matters. Duncan has a greater legacy than KG, but scratch all that, put them in their primes and that's a pretty close toss-up.
bynum in 2012 in his prime was also the best center in the nba....but that dont matter, because players are not judged on how good they were when they were at their best, but rather what theyve accomplished throughout their career. kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...wilt at his best would leave lebron at his best with 15 points, max.
You say Kobe at his best was better than MJ at his best... GOD DAMN KID! Please stop smoking. You done smoked yourself retarted!
Ugh does Kobe eat Vegi-mite pizza
Yes, yes he does.
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Legacy wise. Sure.
But straight up comparing who is a better basketball player, none of that matters. Duncan has a greater legacy than KG, but scratch all that, put them in their primes and that's a pretty close toss-up.
bynum in 2012 in his prime was also the best center in the nba....but that dont matter, because players are not judged on how good they were when they were at their best, but rather what theyve accomplished throughout their career. kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...wilt at his best would leave lebron at his best with 15 points, max.
You say Kobe at his best was better than MJ at his best... GOD DAMN KID! Please stop smoking. You done smoked yourself retarted!
lol, ur the biggest closet laker hater-jordan groupie ive ever seen....seriously. if u disagree with what i say, thats one thing. but to come out on some bitter nonsense, constasntly talkin that shit AGAINST KOBE/LAKERS.....oh my....and u do that shit in every thread, whether it be pro-lebron or pro-jordan, it's always on some anti-laker shit. u sound more like a laker hater than most of the heat fans postin here lmao...u'd get eaten alive for bein such a fairweather loser if u posted at lakersground. i guess thats what happens when u grow up in minnesota, though. smfh.
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kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
kobe who scored 81 points would beat mj in a game of one-on-one...thats my opinion...theres nothin absurd about this, only the media would twist it to make it seem like jordan was untouchable and is head-and-shoulders above the other GOATs, because jordan is a child of the NBA brand and is a product that has been shoved down the throats of the masses. the idiots like mdogg especially fall for this... jordan has had a more impressive career thus far, but prime for prime, there is nothing jordan can do that kobe couldnt.
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This again? Try putting Kobes best playoff games, or finals games, up against Mike?
The 81 point game was amazing, but it WAS against a terrible defensive team
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This again? Try putting Kobes best playoff games, or finals games, up against Mike?
The 81 point game was amazing, but it WAS against a terrible defensive team
try finding me a time when mike played an nba finals game against a defense like the celtics....mike was busy schooling jeff hornacek and hersey hawkins in the finals. different circumstances, different career paths...wing players werent athletic beasts like they are today, it was a big dominant league back then...kobe also has 2 rings where he didnt have anyone like scottie pippen to back him, who was not only assigned to the best perimeter player on the opposing team, but also regarded by many as the 2nd best player in the entire nba at that time. side note, mj's career high also came in an overtime.
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Legacy wise. Sure.
But straight up comparing who is a better basketball player, none of that matters. Duncan has a greater legacy than KG, but scratch all that, put them in their primes and that's a pretty close toss-up.
bynum in 2012 in his prime was also the best center in the nba....but that dont matter, because players are not judged on how good they were when they were at their best, but rather what theyve accomplished throughout their career. kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...wilt at his best would leave lebron at his best with 15 points, max.
You say Kobe at his best was better than MJ at his best... GOD DAMN KID! Please stop smoking. You done smoked yourself retarted!
lol, ur the biggest closet laker hater-jordan groupie ive ever seen....seriously. if u disagree with what i say, thats one thing. but to come out on some bitter nonsense, constasntly talkin that shit AGAINST KOBE/LAKERS.....oh my....and u do that shit in every thread, whether it be pro-lebron or pro-jordan, it's always on some anti-laker shit. u sound more like a laker hater than most of the heat fans postin here lmao...u'd get eaten alive for bein such a fairweather loser if u posted at lakersground. i guess thats what happens when u grow up in minnesota, though. smfh.
Listen Sccittles. Let's clear some air right now. How am I on some anti-Laker shit when I said Michael was better than Kobe at their best? It's true. At their best, Jordan would play circles around Bryant, and Kobe would agree. Michael is better than Kobe, end of subject. Just like Kobe is better than LeBron at their best, end of subject. Just like in 2013, LeBron is better than 2013 Kobe, end of subject. These things are not really debated, as everyone but you has these opinions, oh and the few trolls who think LeBron at his best is better than Kobe at his best.
And don't question my Laker card. Shit, I've been a fan since the days of Magic and Kareem, never missed a game on KCAL or PrimeTicket/Fox Sports West for many years. Even when I was gone, I still watched as many games as possible on national TV and online. And all this Kobe vs. LeBron stuff, I use to argue the same thing for Magic vs. Michael. I was on Magics side all the damn time, and the arguments everyone else uses for LeBron over Kobe, I used them for Magic over Michael. Assist, making others better, Magic's career FG% was 52%, MJ's was 49%, higher rebounds per game. All these stats, hell at the time MJ only had 3-5 rings and no one even brought that into consideration. I was riding for the Lakers LONG before you were, and I was using the same arguments everyone uses for LeBron. For years I sat back and thought of it as ironic that what others used to back up MJ, you used to back up Kobe. It was just funny to me. So now I don't bother arguing for the sake of allegiance. When it comes to players, I can give a damn if the Lakers have the greatest player of all time. My only concern is seeing the Lakers getting banner #17 and 18 so we can finally pass up the Boston Celtics. That's my only care in the world about basketball right now. Being better than Boston. As for the the players, I can live with MJ being the greatest of all time, because to me that did nothing to stop LA for eventually getting to title #16. As a fan, I can't affect the game at all posting on DubCC.com or Lakersground with all the other Kobe dick suckers.
Keep in mind, and you know I said this pre-2004, I was on the side of Shaq. I liked Shaq more than Kobe, and when Shaq left I was torn between my favorite player in the league (I use to like Shaq even as a Orlando Magic as while, but still rooted for the Lakers so the summer of 1996 was an amazing time for me) and the team I was loyal to since I was a little kid. Kobe's legacy means nothing to me really, it's just as long as he keeps winning for the Lakers. I still have my Kobe jersey, I still hope he wins 6 rings eventually and I would love for him to have a legacy unmatched by any other player in the future. But my main concern is the Lakers winning title #17 and 18.
But back to Kobe vs. MJ. Straight up, when I watched both play at their best, there was one thing that stood out. Kobe's teams could be beat. No matter who was Kobe's teammates, there was a chance the Lakers could lose. Even when the Lakers won titles, you didn't always believe the Lakers could win. Well except those two years when Kobe and Shaq were dominate together. But that was because those two were together. On the flip side, there was no question the Bulls were going to win. Watch the 1996-1997 season of the Bulls, it was amazing. It was about winning, and the Bulls just won all the time. I remember the Lakers up 18 to begin the 4th quarter, Shaq was as dominate as ever and the Bulls made a huge comeback. It was unbelievable because the Lakers in 1996-1997 were still a great team. But those Bulls were just unbelievable. You watch Michael Jordan and you knew he wasn't going to let his team lose. Jordan would will his team to victory. He was everything Kobe was, but better. 81 points, Michael didn't need to score 81 points. He would do whatever it takes to win, and if he needed to score 81 then he would have scored 85. Jordan had his way with defenses in a way I've never seen Kobe do. Kobe would force shots, and make crazy shots look easy. Michael would take difficult defenses and slice them up in a way that he made the defense look easy and get the easy shot. Also, Michael played the center position in the triangle, Kobe played the wing. So Jordan was more involved with the ball. These are the differences. And at the end of the day, Michael was better than Kobe.
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Legacy wise. Sure.
But straight up comparing who is a better basketball player, none of that matters. Duncan has a greater legacy than KG, but scratch all that, put them in their primes and that's a pretty close toss-up.
bynum in 2012 in his prime was also the best center in the nba....but that dont matter, because players are not judged on how good they were when they were at their best, but rather what theyve accomplished throughout their career. kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...wilt at his best would leave lebron at his best with 15 points, max.
You say Kobe at his best was better than MJ at his best... GOD DAMN KID! Please stop smoking. You done smoked yourself retarted!
lol, ur the biggest closet laker hater-jordan groupie ive ever seen....seriously. if u disagree with what i say, thats one thing. but to come out on some bitter nonsense, constasntly talkin that shit AGAINST KOBE/LAKERS.....oh my....and u do that shit in every thread, whether it be pro-lebron or pro-jordan, it's always on some anti-laker shit. u sound more like a laker hater than most of the heat fans postin here lmao...u'd get eaten alive for bein such a fairweather loser if u posted at lakersground. i guess thats what happens when u grow up in minnesota, though. smfh.
Listen Sccittles. Let's clear some air right now. How am I on some anti-Laker shit when I said Michael was better than Kobe at their best? It's true. At their best, Jordan would play circles around Bryant, and Kobe would agree. Michael is better than Kobe, end of subject. Just like Kobe is better than LeBron at their best, end of subject. Just like in 2013, LeBron is better than 2013 Kobe, end of subject. These things are not really debated, as everyone but you has these opinions, oh and the few trolls who think LeBron at his best is better than Kobe at his best.
And don't question my Laker card. Shit, I've been a fan since the days of Magic and Kareem, never missed a game on KCAL or PrimeTicket/Fox Sports West for many years. Even when I was gone, I still watched as many games as possible on national TV and online. And all this Kobe vs. LeBron stuff, I use to argue the same thing for Magic vs. Michael. I was on Magics side all the damn time, and the arguments everyone else uses for LeBron over Kobe, I used them for Magic over Michael. Assist, making others better, Magic's career FG% was 52%, MJ's was 49%, higher rebounds per game. All these stats, hell at the time MJ only had 3-5 rings and no one even brought that into consideration. I was riding for the Lakers LONG before you were, and I was using the same arguments everyone uses for LeBron. For years I sat back and thought of it as ironic that what others used to back up MJ, you used to back up Kobe. It was just funny to me. So now I don't bother arguing for the sake of allegiance. When it comes to players, I can give a damn if the Lakers have the greatest player of all time. My only concern is seeing the Lakers getting banner #17 and 18 so we can finally pass up the Boston Celtics. That's my only care in the world about basketball right now. Being better than Boston. As for the the players, I can live with MJ being the greatest of all time, because to me that did nothing to stop LA for eventually getting to title #16. As a fan, I can't affect the game at all posting on DubCC.com or Lakersground with all the other Kobe dick suckers.
Keep in mind, and you know I said this pre-2004, I was on the side of Shaq. I liked Shaq more than Kobe, and when Shaq left I was torn between my favorite player in the league (I use to like Shaq even as a Orlando Magic as while, but still rooted for the Lakers so the summer of 1996 was an amazing time for me) and the team I was loyal to since I was a little kid. Kobe's legacy means nothing to me really, it's just as long as he keeps winning for the Lakers. I still have my Kobe jersey, I still hope he wins 6 rings eventually and I would love for him to have a legacy unmatched by any other player in the future. But my main concern is the Lakers winning title #17 and 18.
But back to Kobe vs. MJ. Straight up, when I watched both play at their best, there was one thing that stood out. Kobe's teams could be beat. No matter who was Kobe's teammates, there was a chance the Lakers could lose. Even when the Lakers won titles, you didn't always believe the Lakers could win. Well except those two years when Kobe and Shaq were dominate together. But that was because those two were together. On the flip side, there was no question the Bulls were going to win. Watch the 1996-1997 season of the Bulls, it was amazing. It was about winning, and the Bulls just won all the time. I remember the Lakers up 18 to begin the 4th quarter, Shaq was as dominate as ever and the Bulls made a huge comeback. It was unbelievable because the Lakers in 1996-1997 were still a great team. But those Bulls were just unbelievable. You watch Michael Jordan and you knew he wasn't going to let his team lose. Jordan would will his team to victory. He was everything Kobe was, but better. 81 points, Michael didn't need to score 81 points. He would do whatever it takes to win, and if he needed to score 81 then he would have scored 85. Jordan had his way with defenses in a way I've never seen Kobe do. Kobe would force shots, and make crazy shots look easy. Michael would take difficult defenses and slice them up in a way that he made the defense look easy and get the easy shot. Also, Michael played the center position in the triangle, Kobe played the wing. So Jordan was more involved with the ball. These are the differences. And at the end of the day, Michael was better than Kobe.
kobe would not agree, and if u really think that then u are a complete idiot who doesnt know the first thing about kobe as a player. ur not on some laker hater shit for sayin jordan is better, it's all a matter of opinion. ur a laker hater for tryna laugh off others who have a difference of opinion, especially when it's pro-lakers. u do realize that michael bein the consensus GOAT is a media driven thing, right? many have already explored the notion of his untouchable status having to do with him comin into the nba right when marketing took off, thus bein the lovechild of david stern and the nba machine. or are u too fuckin retarded to wrap ur mind around a concept like that? point is, i've stated it before..the greatests of all-time can all be argued as the greatest, and theres about 10 players in the category. but they were all the greatest at what they did. some basketball enthusiasts would argue russell or magic as the goat...i've even heard wilt. i dont have a problem with any. but to laugh off the greatness of kobe, and me sayin him at his prime could beat jordan is pretty funny. i didnt even compare them career wise, just comparin 81 point kobe to 69 point jordan. kobe, at that point in his career, was able to do everything jordan could do + shoot and handle the ball better. now go somewhere else with them laker hatin undertones, son.
and yea, kobe's team could be beat, just like jordan's could prior to pippen becomin a perennial superstar...come on, now lmao. how bad have they got u, my sheeple? u really dont realize how good pippen was, do u? it was more convenient than havin a shaq, because pippen actually deferred to jordan, facilitated his offense, AND shut down opposing perimeter players. who had to shut down the perimeter when LA was winnin? thats right, kobe...and lmao@mj scoring 85. get off his nuts, stern fucked u good. mj's career high was 69 in overtime and he attempted more shots than kobe ever did LOL come on, now.
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You can argue between different players, but Kobe and MJ were the same position doing the same thing and MJ was better than Kobe at doing it. Everything I saw, Michael was better than Kobe.
As for how good Pippen was, look at some of the stuff I've posted before. I was talking about how the Bulls were great in the time Jordan was playing minor league baseball. Pippen was great, at the same time the Lakers have had some great teams around Kobe too. Don't act like he won with Kwame and Smush Parker. Pau Gasol is no joke.
As for arguing against pro-Laker arguments. No, Kobe as GOAT is not pro-Laker, that's pro-Kobe. There is a difference. Pro-Laker argument is the Showtrime Lakers>>>Russell's Celtics, or 1972 Lakers>>>1997 Bulls. That's not what you do, you take a player that's obviously better than Kobe at what Kobe does, and you say Kobe is better. Nah homie, you need to be checked because that is straight bull shit!
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You can argue between different players, but Kobe and MJ were the same position doing the same thing and MJ was better than Kobe at doing it. Everything I saw, Michael was better than Kobe.
As for how good Pippen was, look at some of the stuff I've posted before. I was talking about how the Bulls were great in the time Jordan was playing minor league baseball. Pippen was great, at the same time the Lakers have had some great teams around Kobe too. Don't act like he won with Kwame and Smush Parker. Pau Gasol is no joke.
As for arguing against pro-Laker arguments. No, Kobe as GOAT is not pro-Laker, that's pro-Kobe. There is a difference. Pro-Laker argument is the Showtrime Lakers>>>Russell's Celtics, or 1972 Lakers>>>1997 Bulls. That's not what you do, you take a player that's obviously better than Kobe at what Kobe does, and you say Kobe is better. Nah homie, you need to be checked because that is straight bull shit!
pau gasol was no joke, but he is not scottie pippen, not even close...so kobe has done it with less...and werent u sayin the other day how kobe has a better stroke than jordan? so how is mj better at "doin everything"? smfh...media perception, my friend. different career paths, different outcomes. again, there is nothin jordan could have done that kobe in his prime couldnt. only difference was that kobe had lesser teammaters, but as far as pure skill goes, kobe could do everything jordan could+had a cleaner stroke and was more deadly when he heated up. that is all.
and when u argue for laker players, yes, that is pro lakers...LOL. thats common sense, my boy. ur arguments are baseless...u even said kobe would tell u MJ is better when kobe himself said he could beat MJ in his prime. u dont know ur lakers and ur very influenceable. check yaself.
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Legacy wise. Sure.
But straight up comparing who is a better basketball player, none of that matters. Duncan has a greater legacy than KG, but scratch all that, put them in their primes and that's a pretty close toss-up.
bynum in 2012 in his prime was also the best center in the nba....but that dont matter, because players are not judged on how good they were when they were at their best, but rather what theyve accomplished throughout their career. kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...wilt at his best would leave lebron at his best with 15 points, max.
You say Kobe at his best was better than MJ at his best... GOD DAMN KID! Please stop smoking. You done smoked yourself retarted!
lol, ur the biggest closet laker hater-jordan groupie ive ever seen....seriously. if u disagree with what i say, thats one thing. but to come out on some bitter nonsense, constasntly talkin that shit AGAINST KOBE/LAKERS.....oh my....and u do that shit in every thread, whether it be pro-lebron or pro-jordan, it's always on some anti-laker shit. u sound more like a laker hater than most of the heat fans postin here lmao...u'd get eaten alive for bein such a fairweather loser if u posted at lakersground. i guess thats what happens when u grow up in minnesota, though. smfh.
Listen Sccittles. Let's clear some air right now. How am I on some anti-Laker shit when I said Michael was better than Kobe at their best? It's true. At their best, Jordan would play circles around Bryant, and Kobe would agree. Michael is better than Kobe, end of subject. Just like Kobe is better than LeBron at their best, end of subject. Just like in 2013, LeBron is better than 2013 Kobe, end of subject. These things are not really debated, as everyone but you has these opinions, oh and the few trolls who think LeBron at his best is better than Kobe at his best.
And don't question my Laker card. Shit, I've been a fan since the days of Magic and Kareem, never missed a game on KCAL or PrimeTicket/Fox Sports West for many years. Even when I was gone, I still watched as many games as possible on national TV and online. And all this Kobe vs. LeBron stuff, I use to argue the same thing for Magic vs. Michael. I was on Magics side all the damn time, and the arguments everyone else uses for LeBron over Kobe, I used them for Magic over Michael. Assist, making others better, Magic's career FG% was 52%, MJ's was 49%, higher rebounds per game. All these stats, hell at the time MJ only had 3-5 rings and no one even brought that into consideration. I was riding for the Lakers LONG before you were, and I was using the same arguments everyone uses for LeBron. For years I sat back and thought of it as ironic that what others used to back up MJ, you used to back up Kobe. It was just funny to me. So now I don't bother arguing for the sake of allegiance. When it comes to players, I can give a damn if the Lakers have the greatest player of all time. My only concern is seeing the Lakers getting banner #17 and 18 so we can finally pass up the Boston Celtics. That's my only care in the world about basketball right now. Being better than Boston. As for the the players, I can live with MJ being the greatest of all time, because to me that did nothing to stop LA for eventually getting to title #16. As a fan, I can't affect the game at all posting on DubCC.com or Lakersground with all the other Kobe dick suckers.
Keep in mind, and you know I said this pre-2004, I was on the side of Shaq. I liked Shaq more than Kobe, and when Shaq left I was torn between my favorite player in the league (I use to like Shaq even as a Orlando Magic as while, but still rooted for the Lakers so the summer of 1996 was an amazing time for me) and the team I was loyal to since I was a little kid. Kobe's legacy means nothing to me really, it's just as long as he keeps winning for the Lakers. I still have my Kobe jersey, I still hope he wins 6 rings eventually and I would love for him to have a legacy unmatched by any other player in the future. But my main concern is the Lakers winning title #17 and 18.
But back to Kobe vs. MJ. Straight up, when I watched both play at their best, there was one thing that stood out. Kobe's teams could be beat. No matter who was Kobe's teammates, there was a chance the Lakers could lose. Even when the Lakers won titles, you didn't always believe the Lakers could win. Well except those two years when Kobe and Shaq were dominate together. But that was because those two were together. On the flip side, there was no question the Bulls were going to win. Watch the 1996-1997 season of the Bulls, it was amazing. It was about winning, and the Bulls just won all the time. I remember the Lakers up 18 to begin the 4th quarter, Shaq was as dominate as ever and the Bulls made a huge comeback. It was unbelievable because the Lakers in 1996-1997 were still a great team. But those Bulls were just unbelievable. You watch Michael Jordan and you knew he wasn't going to let his team lose. Jordan would will his team to victory. He was everything Kobe was, but better. 81 points, Michael didn't need to score 81 points. He would do whatever it takes to win, and if he needed to score 81 then he would have scored 85. Jordan had his way with defenses in a way I've never seen Kobe do. Kobe would force shots, and make crazy shots look easy. Michael would take difficult defenses and slice them up in a way that he made the defense look easy and get the easy shot. Also, Michael played the center position in the triangle, Kobe played the wing. So Jordan was more involved with the ball. These are the differences. And at the end of the day, Michael was better than Kobe.
kobe would not agree, and if u really think that then u are a complete idiot who doesnt know the first thing about kobe as a player. ur not on some laker hater shit for sayin jordan is better, it's all a matter of opinion. ur a laker hater for tryna laugh off others who have a difference of opinion, especially when it's pro-lakers. u do realize that michael bein the consensus GOAT is a media driven thing, right? many have already explored the notion of his untouchable status having to do with him comin into the nba right when marketing took off, thus bein the lovechild of david stern and the nba machine. or are u too fuckin retarded to wrap ur mind around a concept like that? point is, i've stated it before..the greatests of all-time can all be argued as the greatest, and theres about 10 players in the category. but they were all the greatest at what they did. some basketball enthusiasts would argue russell or magic as the goat...i've even heard wilt. i dont have a problem with any. but to laugh off the greatness of kobe, and me sayin him at his prime could beat jordan is pretty funny. i didnt even compare them career wise, just comparin 81 point kobe to 69 point jordan. kobe, at that point in his career, was able to do everything jordan could do + shoot and handle the ball better. now go somewhere else with them laker hatin undertones, son.
and yea, kobe's team could be beat, just like jordan's could prior to pippen becomin a perennial superstar...come on, now lmao. how bad have they got u, my sheeple? u really dont realize how good pippen was, do u? it was more convenient than havin a shaq, because pippen actually deferred to jordan, facilitated his offense, AND shut down opposing perimeter players. who had to shut down the perimeter when LA was winnin? thats right, kobe...and lmao@mj scoring 85. get off his nuts, stern fucked u good. mj's career high was 69 in overtime and he attempted more shots than kobe ever did LOL come on, now.
You do realize MJ is considered the GOAT due to what he accomplished individually and team wise, right?
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You can argue between different players, but Kobe and MJ were the same position doing the same thing and MJ was better than Kobe at doing it. Everything I saw, Michael was better than Kobe.
As for how good Pippen was, look at some of the stuff I've posted before. I was talking about how the Bulls were great in the time Jordan was playing minor league baseball. Pippen was great, at the same time the Lakers have had some great teams around Kobe too. Don't act like he won with Kwame and Smush Parker. Pau Gasol is no joke.
As for arguing against pro-Laker arguments. No, Kobe as GOAT is not pro-Laker, that's pro-Kobe. There is a difference. Pro-Laker argument is the Showtrime Lakers>>>Russell's Celtics, or 1972 Lakers>>>1997 Bulls. That's not what you do, you take a player that's obviously better than Kobe at what Kobe does, and you say Kobe is better. Nah homie, you need to be checked because that is straight bull shit!
pau gasol was no joke, but he is not scottie pippen, not even close...so kobe has done it with less...and werent u sayin the other day how kobe has a better stroke than jordan? so how is mj better at "doin everything"? smfh...media perception, my friend. different career paths, different outcomes. again, there is nothin jordan could have done that kobe in his prime couldnt. only difference was that kobe had lesser teammaters, but as far as pure skill goes, kobe could do everything jordan could+had a cleaner stroke and was more deadly when he heated up. that is all.
and when u argue for laker players, yes, that is pro lakers...LOL. thats common sense, my boy. ur arguments are baseless...u even said kobe would tell u MJ is better when kobe himself said he could beat MJ in his prime. u dont know ur lakers and ur very influenceable. check yaself.
Let's see, we'll take the 2009-2010 Lakers vs. the 1995-1996 Bulls.
PG: Derek Fisher vs. Ron Artest
SG: Kobe Bryant vs. Michael Jordan
SF: Ron Artest vs. Scottie Pippen
PF: Pau Gasol vs. Dennis Rodman
C: Andrew Bynum vs. Luc Longley
Bench:
Lakers:
Lamar Odom
Shannon Brown
Jordan Farmar
D. J. Mbenga
Josh Powell
Sasha Vujačić
Luke Walton
Bulls:
Toni Kukoc
Steve Kerr
Randy Brown
Jud Buechler
John Salley
Bill Wennington
James Edwards
Okay, here is what I noticed. In 1995-1996 for the Bulls, only 3 players got double digit points per game (Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc). On the flip side, the 2009-2010 Lakers had 5 players average double digit points per game (Bryant, Gasol, Bynum, Odom and Artest). Well it looks like Pippen would be better than any given Laker outside of Bryant, the next 4 Lakers were better than any other Bull, outside of Rodman because he was very hard to measure. Also, once the playoffs hit, Derek Fisher also went to 10ppg, as his points went up, which made up for Bynum who as we remember suffered a knee injury during the playoffs. So well Bynum's production may have decreased, the Lakers had players to pick up the slack.
So well Pippen is better than the other Lakers, the other Lakers looked to be better than the Bulls. What is hard to measure is defense, as the 95-96 Bulls were known to be one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history. With that said, the 09-10 Lakers were not that shabby on defense themselves. If these two teams played, it actually would be a great series.
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That was harssssh ether.
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lmao this genius just compared the 96 bulls to the Laker team with Gasol as the 2nd fiddle that got swept by Dallas....smfh. it would take some1 like cham to not laugh at u for that.
rodman, the 3rd best player on the bulls, was better than gasol, ya braindead muthafucka. the role players on chicago shitted on ours, as well. toni kukoc and steve kerr, knock down shooters, which we never had. how do u have the nerve to say such retarded shit and not feel like a complete dumbass..seriously. u makin the laker haters proud, and thats about it, mdoggydogg.
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That was harssssh ether.
stop stretching ur words like that :camp:
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Stop getting owned so hard and I won't need to show emphasis.
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lmao this genius just compared the 96 bulls to the Laker team with Gasol as the 2nd fiddle that got swept by Dallas....smfh. it would take some1 like cham to not laugh at u for that.
rodman, the 3rd best player on the bulls, was better than gasol, ya braindead muthafucka. the role players on chicago shitted on ours, as well. toni kukoc and steve kerr, knock down shooters, which we never had. how do u have the nerve to say such retarded shit and not feel like a complete dumbass..seriously. u makin the laker haters proud, and thats about it, mdoggydogg.
That is the team that beat the Celtics and their big 3.
And this argument did two things, prove my point of Jordan> Bryant and still had a pro Lakers as a team argument.
Also, why bury the rest of the team. That's a lame thing to do. Don't you get TEAM! You are on one mans Jock so much you lose the idea that it's a team sport.
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lmao this genius just compared the 96 bulls to the Laker team with Gasol as the 2nd fiddle that got swept by Dallas....smfh. it would take some1 like cham to not laugh at u for that.
rodman, the 3rd best player on the bulls, was better than gasol, ya braindead muthafucka. the role players on chicago shitted on ours, as well. toni kukoc and steve kerr, knock down shooters, which we never had. how do u have the nerve to say such retarded shit and not feel like a complete dumbass..seriously. u makin the laker haters proud, and thats about it, mdoggydogg.
That is the team that beat the Celtics and their big 3.
And this argument did two things, prove my point of Jordan> Bryant and still had a pro Lakers as a team argument.
Also, why bury the rest of the team. That's a lame thing to do. Don't you get TEAM! You are on one mans Jock so much you lose the idea that it's a team sport.
the same celtics big three that lost to the orlando magic the previous year, wise one.
basically, you're an idiot if ur gunna sit there and act like the '09-'10 lakers are on the same level as the 96 bulls. try postin that claim on any other basketball forum and see if u dont get laughed off.
at least if you said 3peat lakers, you'd have a case...but smmfh, come on, now :stupid:
all i'm sayin is that kobe won with less...if u dont understand this, you must really still be bitter at kobe due to loving shaq so much, seriously.
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That Celtic starting lineup never lost a series except for that series. The previous year they were too injured. Also, in 2010, as I said, 5 players in double digits, that all around great basketball. Now if Kobe won a title with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown, then you'd have an argument. But really, you don't.
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That Celtic starting lineup never lost a series except for that series. The previous year they were too injured. Also, in 2010, as I said, 5 players in double digits, that all around great basketball. Now if Kobe won a title with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown, then you'd have an argument. But really, you don't.
YOURE A FUCKIN IDIOT, SHOOT URSELF IN THE FACE
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That Celtic starting lineup never lost a series except for that series. The previous year they were too injured. Also, in 2010, as I said, 5 players in double digits, that all around great basketball. Now if Kobe won a title with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown, then you'd have an argument. But really, you don't.
YOURE A FUCKIN IDIOT, SHOOT URSELF IN THE FACE
I was just quoting Doc Rivers.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100623091654AA6Tjw6
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2010-08-23/doc-rivers-lakers-starting-five-has-never-beaten-celtics-starting-five
Man, I don't know what's easier, schooling you in this debate, or eating the Jolly Rancher in my mouth right now.
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i'd give mad props to Kobe if he won a title with Smush Parker...but he wasn't good enough to pull that off.
back to the Heat...they always lose game 1 in the finals and go on to win the series
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i'd give mad props to Kobe if he won a title with Smush Parker...but he wasn't good enough to pull that off.
back to the Heat...they always lose game 1 in the finals and go on to win the series
DID U CATCH HOW SHITTY LEBRON WAS PLAYING? UP UNTIL HIS TEAMMATES CARRIED HIM TO A LEAD AT THE END OF THE 3RD AND HE GAINED A LITTLE CONFIDENCE. I KNOW U SEEN THAT SHIT :laugh:
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That Celtic starting lineup never lost a series except for that series. The previous year they were too injured. Also, in 2010, as I said, 5 players in double digits, that all around great basketball. Now if Kobe won a title with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown, then you'd have an argument. But really, you don't.
YOURE A FUCKIN IDIOT, SHOOT URSELF IN THE FACE
I was just quoting Doc Rivers.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100623091654AA6Tjw6
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2010-08-23/doc-rivers-lakers-starting-five-has-never-beaten-celtics-starting-five
Man, I don't know what's easier, schooling you in this debate, or eating the Jolly Rancher in my mouth right now.
THAT SOUNDED HELLA GAY LMFAO
BUT FOREAL, U ARE ONE DUMB PIECE OF SHIT, MDOGG. IF U CANT REALIZE THAT THE '09-'10 LAKERS ARE NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE '96 BULLS, THEN I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DISCUSS WIT UR RETARDED MIND.
THEN AGAIN, MDOGG, UR THE SAME IDIOT WHO THOUGHT BOB MCADOO AVERAGED 25 POINTS ON THE LAKERS BECAUSE U CHECKED BASKETBALL REFERENCE AND TRIED TO PASS HIM OFF AS THE GREATEST POWER FORWARD IN OUR HISTORY BASED OFF OF THAT. I WONDER IF U HAVE SOME FORM OF LEARNING DISABILITY? U TALK OUT UR ASS MORE THAN ANYONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE FORUM. I DONT MEAN MAKING BOLD CLAIMS...I MEAN SAYING SHIT WITHOUT HAVING A CLUE AS TO WHAT THE FUCK UR TALKING ABOUT. U JUST TALK TO HEAR URSELF SPEAK SO THAT U CAN FEEL EDUCATED AND UP-TO-PAR WITH THE OTHER POSTERS WHO ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY'RE SAYING.. SOMETIMES I JUST WANNA SLAP THE DUMBNESS OUT U.
LMAO '09 LAKERS MINUS KOBE ARE AS GOOD AS '96 BULLS MINUS JORDAN....ROFLMFAO. I WISH I COULD PISS ON U RIGHT NOW :monkey_piss:
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That Celtic starting lineup never lost a series except for that series. The previous year they were too injured. Also, in 2010, as I said, 5 players in double digits, that all around great basketball. Now if Kobe won a title with Smush Parker and Kwame Brown, then you'd have an argument. But really, you don't.
YOURE A FUCKIN IDIOT, SHOOT URSELF IN THE FACE
I was just quoting Doc Rivers.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100623091654AA6Tjw6
http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2010-08-23/doc-rivers-lakers-starting-five-has-never-beaten-celtics-starting-five
Man, I don't know what's easier, schooling you in this debate, or eating the Jolly Rancher in my mouth right now.
THAT SOUNDED HELLA GAY LMFAO
BUT FOREAL, U ARE ONE DUMB PIECE OF SHIT, MDOGG. IF U CANT REALIZE THAT THE '09-'10 LAKERS ARE NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE '96 BULLS, THEN I HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO DISCUSS WIT UR RETARDED MIND.
THEN AGAIN, MDOGG, UR THE SAME IDIOT WHO THOUGHT BOB MCADOO AVERAGED 25 POINTS ON THE LAKERS BECAUSE U CHECKED BASKETBALL REFERENCE AND TRIED TO PASS HIM OFF AS THE GREATEST POWER FORWARD IN OUR HISTORY BASED OFF OF THAT. I WONDER IF U HAVE SOME FORM OF LEARNING DISABILITY? U TALK OUT UR ASS MORE THAN ANYONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE FORUM. I DONT MEAN MAKING BOLD CLAIMS...I MEAN SAYING SHIT WITHOUT HAVING A CLUE AS TO WHAT THE FUCK UR TALKING ABOUT. U JUST TALK TO HEAR URSELF SPEAK SO THAT U CAN FEEL EDUCATED AND UP-TO-PAR WITH THE OTHER POSTERS WHO ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY'RE SAYING.. SOMETIMES I JUST WANNA SLAP THE DUMBNESS OUT U.
LMAO '09 LAKERS MINUS KOBE ARE AS GOOD AS '96 BULLS MINUS JORDAN....ROFLMFAO. I WISH I COULD PISS ON U RIGHT NOW :monkey_piss:
LOL... man I got you mad.
Face it, everything I posted proved two things, the 09-10 Lakers might have a chance to win a game in a 7 game series against the 95-96 Bulls, and Jordan is better than Kobe. That's it, case close. It's over, done, you lost. Give it up because Kobe had help, lots of help. Jordan had a different kind of help, most of those Bulls were lock down specialist, meaning they will stop the other team but Jordan/Pippen carried the offense. Kobe was a lock down defender, but he had help on the offense with Gasol, Artest, Bynum, Odom and in the playoffs Fisher. Does defense matter, yes, 96 Bulls on of the greatest, if not the greatest, defensive teams ever. But the offense was all Jordan and Pippen. That's it, Kukoc=Odom, but as far as the rest of the roster, the Lakers had better scorers. So you are highly misguided in your, KOBE CARRIED THE LAKERS, argument. You can't dispute it, it's over.
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lol that laker team without kobe doesn't even make the playoffs... Say Jordan is better all u want, but uv seriously lost the last bit of respect I had for your opinions if u can't admit that Kobe won with less. Gasol is not a franchise player who could carry a team.. Pippen proved he was, end of story. And like u said, the defenses werent even comparable. U didn't get me mad, ur stupidity did cuzz
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where were Pippen's titles without Jordan?
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I had respect from you?
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where were Pippen's titles without Jordan?
1994 Bulls led by Pippen=55 wins, 7 games of eastern conference semi finals
2010 Lakers=57 wins
I had respect from you?
yes
/end thread
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..and will forever taint LeBron's legacy. seriously, they're hands down the favorites and should have a cake-walk the rest of the way with how their all-staresque roster is clicking. everyone's already penciled them in as the winners, with less doubt than any team has ever faced. if they win, it's already expected, not one person out there will be able to say "we didnt see this coming"..but if they lose, the consequences will be much more bitter than the joy of winning would be sweet. barring injury, it will go down as the biggest disappointment in NBA history and LeBron will have lost with EASILY the best supporting cast in the league.....and to be honest, I can see either Indiana or Memphis givin Miami a tough time. should be interesting the rest of the way....... 8)
Was this thread made to make you feel better about the Lakers flop of a season?
-
kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
-
kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
Great argument, from the poster who never says shit....
Tell me what mj could do that kobe in his prime couldn't or Stfu
-
kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
Great argument, from the poster who never says shit....
Tell me what mj could do that kobe in his prime couldn't or Stfu
Jordan in his late 20's found a way to shoot over 50%. Bryant never shot over 46%. Before the age of 33, Jordan only had 1 season where he didn't get at least 2 steals a game, Bryant never had any season over 2 steals a game, so basically be an effective scorer and play defense and create turnovers. So play offense and defense. The only thing Kobe is head and shoulders better the Michael is 3 point shooting. Kobe has a lower % because he takes way more 3's, and in one season he made about as many 3's as Michael attempted, and Michael only had 2 seasons with really high % 3 pointers but he attempted very few. Other than that, every single thing you can think of, MJ did better than Kobe. Stats wise, rebounds and assist, they are almost even with MJ having a slight lead in both, per years in their prime. Points wise, MJ is ahead by a healthy margin. Steals, it's not even close, blocks in their prime, Kobe is about half a block a game in his prime, MJ was closer to 1 block a game in his prime. So yeah, prime for prime, it's kind of close on offense, defense it's not even close, but both edges go to MJ.
Plus Kobe says that MJ was the greatest ever.
http://www.youtube.com/v/iZwEmDBbze4?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0
Let Kobe be Kobe.
-
kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
Great argument, from the poster who never says shit....
Tell me what mj could do that kobe in his prime couldn't or Stfu
What he "could" do, or what he DID do. I don't think I need to waste my time cuz you already know. You deal in "what ifs" and shit...
-
kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
Great argument, from the poster who never says shit....
Tell me what mj could do that kobe in his prime couldn't or Stfu
What he "could" do, or what he DID do. I don't think I need to waste my time cuz you already know. You deal in "what ifs" and shit...
again, my argument wasnt that kobe had the better career or better accolades...it was simply that kobe in his prime could beat jordan in his prime. if ur only response to that is nutriding, then dont even respond at all. at least mdogg came with some arguments...they may have been completely retarded, but they were still arguments. try it.
-
kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
Great argument, from the poster who never says shit....
Tell me what mj could do that kobe in his prime couldn't or Stfu
Jordan in his late 20's found a way to shoot over 50%. Bryant never shot over 46%. Before the age of 33, Jordan only had 1 season where he didn't get at least 2 steals a game, Bryant never had any season over 2 steals a game, so basically be an effective scorer and play defense and create turnovers. So play offense and defense. The only thing Kobe is head and shoulders better the Michael is 3 point shooting. Kobe has a lower % because he takes way more 3's, and in one season he made about as many 3's as Michael attempted, and Michael only had 2 seasons with really high % 3 pointers but he attempted very few. Other than that, every single thing you can think of, MJ did better than Kobe. Stats wise, rebounds and assist, they are almost even with MJ having a slight lead in both, per years in their prime. Points wise, MJ is ahead by a healthy margin. Steals, it's not even close, blocks in their prime, Kobe is about half a block a game in his prime, MJ was closer to 1 block a game in his prime. So yeah, prime for prime, it's kind of close on offense, defense it's not even close, but both edges go to MJ.
Plus Kobe says that MJ was the greatest ever.
http://www.youtube.com/v/iZwEmDBbze4?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0
Let Kobe be Kobe.
the old fg% argument lmao...never fails. the reason MJ shot over 50% was because he had no range. the less range u have, the higher ur fg% is. i've explained this numerous times on here, thats a minus for jordan, not a plus...but i guess chris andersen is by far the best player in the playoffs, since he shoots 80% from the field lmao...and if ur only argument is looking up stats, then dont even bother. i can show u a lot of stats that show lebron to be better than MJ, as well, but we all know how far off from the truth that is...point is, MJ played for a better Bulls team where the offense revolved around him to perfection. if Kobe played for teams like that in his prime, he coulda had some 40 PPG seasons. believe that. also, defensive stats dont make u a better defender. in fact, most of the top defenders average less steals and blocks, because they dont gamble and shut down their man by stayin in front, not taking risks or letting their man beat them to collect weak side steals+blocks. u learn this in high school. thats why bruce bowen, one of the top defenders of all time, averaged less than a block and a steal a game.
Kobe Bryant told Michael Jordan he could 'kick his a**' one on one
POSTED: Saturday, May 18, 2013, 4:31 PM
Phil Jackson is at it again. The man known by many as the “Zen master” is the king of controversy via the written word. Whether exploring Kobe’s early selfishness in The Last Season, or just teasing the twitterverse with vague yet informative tweets, Phil has never feared ruffling some feathers.
His new book, aptly titled 11 Rings: The Soul of Success, available everywhere on May 21, apparently finds Phil focusing on a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant comparison; a conversation Jackson has largely shied away from in the past.
Considering Jackson is the man that led both MJ and Kobe to all of their collective NBA titles, it is interesting to finally hear his insight on the issue.
It is safe to say that Phil didn’t disappoint.
Jackson states that Bryant’s desire to not only be great, but to be literally better than Jordan was evident early on, and in 11 Rings, he reflects fondly on a face-to-face meeting between Michael and Kobe during his first season as head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers.
"Kobe was hell-bent on surpassing Jordan as the greatest player in the game. His obsession with Michael was striking," Jackson begins.
Even to the casual fan the similarities between the two were extremely evident.
"When we played in Chicago that season, I orchestrated a meeting between the two stars, thinking that Michael might help shift Kobe's attitude toward selfless teamwork,” Jackson continued.
After they shook hands, the first words out of Kobe's mouth were, 'You know I can kick your a** one on one.'"
Yep, sounds like Kobe. After all, it is bold, brash statements like this that have helped made Kobe such a polarizing player.
Some may call him crazy, but no one can claim that Kobe lacks confidence, for good or for bad.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/Kobe-Bryant-told-Michael-Jordan-he-could-kick-his-as-one-on-one.html#Er75WQAcucEpTq1F.99
suck it, jordan fan.
-
kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
Great argument, from the poster who never says shit....
Tell me what mj could do that kobe in his prime couldn't or Stfu
Jordan in his late 20's found a way to shoot over 50%. Bryant never shot over 46%. Before the age of 33, Jordan only had 1 season where he didn't get at least 2 steals a game, Bryant never had any season over 2 steals a game, so basically be an effective scorer and play defense and create turnovers. So play offense and defense. The only thing Kobe is head and shoulders better the Michael is 3 point shooting. Kobe has a lower % because he takes way more 3's, and in one season he made about as many 3's as Michael attempted, and Michael only had 2 seasons with really high % 3 pointers but he attempted very few. Other than that, every single thing you can think of, MJ did better than Kobe. Stats wise, rebounds and assist, they are almost even with MJ having a slight lead in both, per years in their prime. Points wise, MJ is ahead by a healthy margin. Steals, it's not even close, blocks in their prime, Kobe is about half a block a game in his prime, MJ was closer to 1 block a game in his prime. So yeah, prime for prime, it's kind of close on offense, defense it's not even close, but both edges go to MJ.
Plus Kobe says that MJ was the greatest ever.
http://www.youtube.com/v/iZwEmDBbze4?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0
Let Kobe be Kobe.
the old fg% argument lmao...never fails. the reason MJ shot over 50% was because he had no range. the less range u have, the higher ur fg% is. i've explained this numerous times on here, thats a minus for jordan, not a plus...but i guess chris andersen is by far the best player in the playoffs, since he shoots 80% from the field lmao...and if ur only argument is looking up stats, then dont even bother. i can show u a lot of stats that show lebron to be better than MJ, as well, but we all know how far off from the truth that is...point is, MJ played for a better Bulls team where the offense revolved around him to perfection. if Kobe played for teams like that in his prime, he coulda had some 40 PPG seasons. believe that. also, defensive stats dont make u a better defender. in fact, most of the top defenders average less steals and blocks, because they dont gamble and shut down their man by stayin in front, not taking risks or letting their man beat them to collect weak side steals+blocks. u learn this in high school. thats why bruce bowen, one of the top defenders of all time, averaged less than a block and a steal a game.
Kobe Bryant told Michael Jordan he could 'kick his a**' one on one
POSTED: Saturday, May 18, 2013, 4:31 PM
Phil Jackson is at it again. The man known by many as the “Zen master” is the king of controversy via the written word. Whether exploring Kobe’s early selfishness in The Last Season, or just teasing the twitterverse with vague yet informative tweets, Phil has never feared ruffling some feathers.
His new book, aptly titled 11 Rings: The Soul of Success, available everywhere on May 21, apparently finds Phil focusing on a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant comparison; a conversation Jackson has largely shied away from in the past.
Considering Jackson is the man that led both MJ and Kobe to all of their collective NBA titles, it is interesting to finally hear his insight on the issue.
It is safe to say that Phil didn’t disappoint.
Jackson states that Bryant’s desire to not only be great, but to be literally better than Jordan was evident early on, and in 11 Rings, he reflects fondly on a face-to-face meeting between Michael and Kobe during his first season as head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers.
"Kobe was hell-bent on surpassing Jordan as the greatest player in the game. His obsession with Michael was striking," Jackson begins.
Even to the casual fan the similarities between the two were extremely evident.
"When we played in Chicago that season, I orchestrated a meeting between the two stars, thinking that Michael might help shift Kobe's attitude toward selfless teamwork,” Jackson continued.
After they shook hands, the first words out of Kobe's mouth were, 'You know I can kick your a** one on one.'"
Yep, sounds like Kobe. After all, it is bold, brash statements like this that have helped made Kobe such a polarizing player.
Some may call him crazy, but no one can claim that Kobe lacks confidence, for good or for bad.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/Kobe-Bryant-told-Michael-Jordan-he-could-kick-his-as-one-on-one.html#Er75WQAcucEpTq1F.99
suck it, jordan fan.
Oh trust me, I'm the last person you'd think was a Jordan fan if you start the Magic vs. MJ thing. You'd think I was the biggest Jordan hater ever. But I have accepted the fact that people think of the of MJ as the greatest and I'll leave it as that.
And that was young Kobe talking. The Kobe I posted is older Kobe who had already been through the league. You are saying 22 year old Kobe is telling the truth and 30 year old Kobe doesn't know what he's talking about. Dude, Let Kobe Be Kobe.
And I've mentioned that in their primes, Kobe makes as many 3's as Jordan attempts. But FG% is important because if you are bricking the ball, then that's almost like a turnover. Which BTW, Kobe has about double the turnovers in his prime as Jordan in his prime, per game of course.
Here is another weakness in your argument, I saw and watched both in their primes, and I was old enough to actually take in what I saw. I saw Jordan in 1991 when he beat my Lakers and Magic Johnson. I actually cried, and I mean I cried. Not as hard as when Magic announced he had HIV, I was crying for about an hour. Well you were a little kid, I was old enough to see everything. There was no point in Kobe's career that I said, this guy is better than Jordan. Maybe close to getting to that level, but never reaching or surpassing that level, at all.
I mean, you can't describe what it was like watching Michael play on a nightly bases in the early 90's. In the late 90's, I'd say the Bulls were just a better team, but the early 90's when it was BJ Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Horace Grant and Stacy King, you just saw Michael just DOMINATE games. Yeah BJ and Grant scored more than Harper and Rodman, but Scottie actually didn't score as often and Jordan was at his all time best. I seriously don't think you realize how great Michael Jordan was. It was the opposite of Magic Johnson in that Magic could have complete control of a game and dominate without scoring a point. Jordan would dominate with the ball in hard and driving to the lane in every play. MJ knew his strengths and weaknesses, which is why he didn't shoot over 2-3 3pointers a game in any season.
WITHOUT STATS, I'll tell you exactly what I saw from Kobe and Jordan
Kobe has a better outside shot
Jordan was stronger and got inside more
Jordan was better at defense
Jordan was a better closer in clutch time
Jordan played the center position in the triangle offense, well either Shaq or Gasol played the center on the Lakers. that means they were in the paint with the ball in their hands. Jordan did that for the Bulls, he drew everyone inside and then either kicked it out or did that crazy turn around jumper, usually it was the turn around jumper.
Kobe got close when he was at his best. Kobe at his best was the closest I ever saw anyone, INCLUDING LEBRON, getting to MJ, but he just never got there.
That's what I saw, no stats, but just straight up living my life in the 90's and 2000's doing nothing but watching basketball. I was worst than you, trust me on that.
-
kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
Great argument, from the poster who never says shit....
Tell me what mj could do that kobe in his prime couldn't or Stfu
Jordan in his late 20's found a way to shoot over 50%. Bryant never shot over 46%. Before the age of 33, Jordan only had 1 season where he didn't get at least 2 steals a game, Bryant never had any season over 2 steals a game, so basically be an effective scorer and play defense and create turnovers. So play offense and defense. The only thing Kobe is head and shoulders better the Michael is 3 point shooting. Kobe has a lower % because he takes way more 3's, and in one season he made about as many 3's as Michael attempted, and Michael only had 2 seasons with really high % 3 pointers but he attempted very few. Other than that, every single thing you can think of, MJ did better than Kobe. Stats wise, rebounds and assist, they are almost even with MJ having a slight lead in both, per years in their prime. Points wise, MJ is ahead by a healthy margin. Steals, it's not even close, blocks in their prime, Kobe is about half a block a game in his prime, MJ was closer to 1 block a game in his prime. So yeah, prime for prime, it's kind of close on offense, defense it's not even close, but both edges go to MJ.
Plus Kobe says that MJ was the greatest ever.
http://www.youtube.com/v/iZwEmDBbze4?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0
Let Kobe be Kobe.
the old fg% argument lmao...never fails. the reason MJ shot over 50% was because he had no range. the less range u have, the higher ur fg% is. i've explained this numerous times on here, thats a minus for jordan, not a plus...but i guess chris andersen is by far the best player in the playoffs, since he shoots 80% from the field lmao...and if ur only argument is looking up stats, then dont even bother. i can show u a lot of stats that show lebron to be better than MJ, as well, but we all know how far off from the truth that is...point is, MJ played for a better Bulls team where the offense revolved around him to perfection. if Kobe played for teams like that in his prime, he coulda had some 40 PPG seasons. believe that. also, defensive stats dont make u a better defender. in fact, most of the top defenders average less steals and blocks, because they dont gamble and shut down their man by stayin in front, not taking risks or letting their man beat them to collect weak side steals+blocks. u learn this in high school. thats why bruce bowen, one of the top defenders of all time, averaged less than a block and a steal a game.
Kobe Bryant told Michael Jordan he could 'kick his a**' one on one
POSTED: Saturday, May 18, 2013, 4:31 PM
Phil Jackson is at it again. The man known by many as the “Zen master” is the king of controversy via the written word. Whether exploring Kobe’s early selfishness in The Last Season, or just teasing the twitterverse with vague yet informative tweets, Phil has never feared ruffling some feathers.
His new book, aptly titled 11 Rings: The Soul of Success, available everywhere on May 21, apparently finds Phil focusing on a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant comparison; a conversation Jackson has largely shied away from in the past.
Considering Jackson is the man that led both MJ and Kobe to all of their collective NBA titles, it is interesting to finally hear his insight on the issue.
It is safe to say that Phil didn’t disappoint.
Jackson states that Bryant’s desire to not only be great, but to be literally better than Jordan was evident early on, and in 11 Rings, he reflects fondly on a face-to-face meeting between Michael and Kobe during his first season as head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers.
"Kobe was hell-bent on surpassing Jordan as the greatest player in the game. His obsession with Michael was striking," Jackson begins.
Even to the casual fan the similarities between the two were extremely evident.
"When we played in Chicago that season, I orchestrated a meeting between the two stars, thinking that Michael might help shift Kobe's attitude toward selfless teamwork,” Jackson continued.
After they shook hands, the first words out of Kobe's mouth were, 'You know I can kick your a** one on one.'"
Yep, sounds like Kobe. After all, it is bold, brash statements like this that have helped made Kobe such a polarizing player.
Some may call him crazy, but no one can claim that Kobe lacks confidence, for good or for bad.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/Kobe-Bryant-told-Michael-Jordan-he-could-kick-his-as-one-on-one.html#Er75WQAcucEpTq1F.99
suck it, jordan fan.
Oh trust me, I'm the last person you'd think was a Jordan fan if you start the Magic vs. MJ thing. You'd think I was the biggest Jordan hater ever. But I have accepted the fact that people think of the of MJ as the greatest and I'll leave it as that.
And that was young Kobe talking. The Kobe I posted is older Kobe who had already been through the league. You are saying 22 year old Kobe is telling the truth and 30 year old Kobe doesn't know what he's talking about. Dude, Let Kobe Be Kobe.
And I've mentioned that in their primes, Kobe makes as many 3's as Jordan attempts. But FG% is important because if you are bricking the ball, then that's almost like a turnover. Which BTW, Kobe has about double the turnovers in his prime as Jordan in his prime, per game of course.
Here is another weakness in your argument, I saw and watched both in their primes, and I was old enough to actually take in what I saw. I saw Jordan in 1991 when he beat my Lakers and Magic Johnson. I actually cried, and I mean I cried. Not as hard as when Magic announced he had HIV, I was crying for about an hour. Well you were a little kid, I was old enough to see everything. There was no point in Kobe's career that I said, this guy is better than Jordan. Maybe close to getting to that level, but never reaching or surpassing that level, at all.
I mean, you can't describe what it was like watching Michael play on a nightly bases in the early 90's. In the late 90's, I'd say the Bulls were just a better team, but the early 90's when it was BJ Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Horace Grant and Stacy King, you just saw Michael just DOMINATE games. Yeah BJ and Grant scored more than Harper and Rodman, but Scottie actually didn't score as often and Jordan was at his all time best. I seriously don't think you realize how great Michael Jordan was. It was the opposite of Magic Johnson in that Magic could have complete control of a game and dominate without scoring a point. Jordan would dominate with the ball in hard and driving to the lane in every play. MJ knew his strengths and weaknesses, which is why he didn't shoot over 2-3 3pointers a game in any season.
WITHOUT STATS, I'll tell you exactly what I saw from Kobe and Jordan
Kobe has a better outside shot
Jordan was stronger and got inside more
Jordan was better at defense
Jordan was a better closer in clutch time
Jordan played the center position in the triangle offense, well either Shaq or Gasol played the center on the Lakers. that means they were in the paint with the ball in their hands. Jordan did that for the Bulls, he drew everyone inside and then either kicked it out or did that crazy turn around jumper, usually it was the turn around jumper.
Kobe got close when he was at his best. Kobe at his best was the closest I ever saw anyone, INCLUDING LEBRON, getting to MJ, but he just never got there.
That's what I saw, no stats, but just straight up living my life in the 90's and 2000's doing nothing but watching basketball. I was worst than you, trust me on that.
gtfoh, like i said, u dont know the first thing about kobe if u think he doesn't believe he's untouchable......he even said it recently:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1489271-kobe-bryant-says-hes-best-of-all-time-would-beat-lebron-james-in-one-on-one
...he also said he would beat MJ one-on-one a couple months ago...i posted it up if u look back.
but of course he's gunna call MJ the greatest, it's called paying respect.. who the fuck goes out and flat out says "i'm the greatest of all time!"?...at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, Kobe is waiting to capture that 6th and 7th ring to view himself as surpassing Jordan career-wise.. so now, Jordan has had the better career....another thing Kobe has on Jordan, Kobe is so much better than Jordan was at this point in their career. seriously, the stuff Kobe has been doing 17 seasons into his career is unheard of. it's just adding to the legacy. and if Kobe can reform his game to a 23 points-10 assist player and win a couple more rings...godaymn. skys the limit for his legacy, foreal. Kobe, in his prime, facilitated a whole lot more than MJ and plays off the ball less, because he never had anyone on the perimeter like Pippen....hence, more turnovers. i really dont even know what kinda stat-lines Kobe would have if he played with Pippen shutting down opposing perimeter players and facilitating the offense, but i know it would be incredible....dont get me wrong, mdoggydogg. i realize how great Jordan was. theres no denying his amazing capabilities. but i dont think YOU realize how circumstantial all of it really was...how much the media influenced the minds of the masses (including you), and how he was placed in a perfect scenario to excel and made to look untouchable.
kobe could shoot better, handle the ball better, might go through more cold stretches (u think teammates dont play a role in this? lol), but deadlier when he heats up...jordan is made to look like a better defender because he didnt have to lock down the best player on the perimeter night in and night out ala kobe (which also helps his offense)......it's all circumstantial, brodie. at the end of the day, 81 point kobe could take 69 point jordan, and thats all there is to it. disagree all u want, but dont do urself the disservice of laughin it off.
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kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
Great argument, from the poster who never says shit....
Tell me what mj could do that kobe in his prime couldn't or Stfu
Jordan in his late 20's found a way to shoot over 50%. Bryant never shot over 46%. Before the age of 33, Jordan only had 1 season where he didn't get at least 2 steals a game, Bryant never had any season over 2 steals a game, so basically be an effective scorer and play defense and create turnovers. So play offense and defense. The only thing Kobe is head and shoulders better the Michael is 3 point shooting. Kobe has a lower % because he takes way more 3's, and in one season he made about as many 3's as Michael attempted, and Michael only had 2 seasons with really high % 3 pointers but he attempted very few. Other than that, every single thing you can think of, MJ did better than Kobe. Stats wise, rebounds and assist, they are almost even with MJ having a slight lead in both, per years in their prime. Points wise, MJ is ahead by a healthy margin. Steals, it's not even close, blocks in their prime, Kobe is about half a block a game in his prime, MJ was closer to 1 block a game in his prime. So yeah, prime for prime, it's kind of close on offense, defense it's not even close, but both edges go to MJ.
Plus Kobe says that MJ was the greatest ever.
http://www.youtube.com/v/iZwEmDBbze4?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0
Let Kobe be Kobe.
the old fg% argument lmao...never fails. the reason MJ shot over 50% was because he had no range. the less range u have, the higher ur fg% is. i've explained this numerous times on here, thats a minus for jordan, not a plus...but i guess chris andersen is by far the best player in the playoffs, since he shoots 80% from the field lmao...and if ur only argument is looking up stats, then dont even bother. i can show u a lot of stats that show lebron to be better than MJ, as well, but we all know how far off from the truth that is...point is, MJ played for a better Bulls team where the offense revolved around him to perfection. if Kobe played for teams like that in his prime, he coulda had some 40 PPG seasons. believe that. also, defensive stats dont make u a better defender. in fact, most of the top defenders average less steals and blocks, because they dont gamble and shut down their man by stayin in front, not taking risks or letting their man beat them to collect weak side steals+blocks. u learn this in high school. thats why bruce bowen, one of the top defenders of all time, averaged less than a block and a steal a game.
Kobe Bryant told Michael Jordan he could 'kick his a**' one on one
POSTED: Saturday, May 18, 2013, 4:31 PM
Phil Jackson is at it again. The man known by many as the “Zen master” is the king of controversy via the written word. Whether exploring Kobe’s early selfishness in The Last Season, or just teasing the twitterverse with vague yet informative tweets, Phil has never feared ruffling some feathers.
His new book, aptly titled 11 Rings: The Soul of Success, available everywhere on May 21, apparently finds Phil focusing on a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant comparison; a conversation Jackson has largely shied away from in the past.
Considering Jackson is the man that led both MJ and Kobe to all of their collective NBA titles, it is interesting to finally hear his insight on the issue.
It is safe to say that Phil didn’t disappoint.
Jackson states that Bryant’s desire to not only be great, but to be literally better than Jordan was evident early on, and in 11 Rings, he reflects fondly on a face-to-face meeting between Michael and Kobe during his first season as head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers.
"Kobe was hell-bent on surpassing Jordan as the greatest player in the game. His obsession with Michael was striking," Jackson begins.
Even to the casual fan the similarities between the two were extremely evident.
"When we played in Chicago that season, I orchestrated a meeting between the two stars, thinking that Michael might help shift Kobe's attitude toward selfless teamwork,” Jackson continued.
After they shook hands, the first words out of Kobe's mouth were, 'You know I can kick your a** one on one.'"
Yep, sounds like Kobe. After all, it is bold, brash statements like this that have helped made Kobe such a polarizing player.
Some may call him crazy, but no one can claim that Kobe lacks confidence, for good or for bad.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/Kobe-Bryant-told-Michael-Jordan-he-could-kick-his-as-one-on-one.html#Er75WQAcucEpTq1F.99
suck it, jordan fan.
Oh trust me, I'm the last person you'd think was a Jordan fan if you start the Magic vs. MJ thing. You'd think I was the biggest Jordan hater ever. But I have accepted the fact that people think of the of MJ as the greatest and I'll leave it as that.
And that was young Kobe talking. The Kobe I posted is older Kobe who had already been through the league. You are saying 22 year old Kobe is telling the truth and 30 year old Kobe doesn't know what he's talking about. Dude, Let Kobe Be Kobe.
And I've mentioned that in their primes, Kobe makes as many 3's as Jordan attempts. But FG% is important because if you are bricking the ball, then that's almost like a turnover. Which BTW, Kobe has about double the turnovers in his prime as Jordan in his prime, per game of course.
Here is another weakness in your argument, I saw and watched both in their primes, and I was old enough to actually take in what I saw. I saw Jordan in 1991 when he beat my Lakers and Magic Johnson. I actually cried, and I mean I cried. Not as hard as when Magic announced he had HIV, I was crying for about an hour. Well you were a little kid, I was old enough to see everything. There was no point in Kobe's career that I said, this guy is better than Jordan. Maybe close to getting to that level, but never reaching or surpassing that level, at all.
I mean, you can't describe what it was like watching Michael play on a nightly bases in the early 90's. In the late 90's, I'd say the Bulls were just a better team, but the early 90's when it was BJ Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Horace Grant and Stacy King, you just saw Michael just DOMINATE games. Yeah BJ and Grant scored more than Harper and Rodman, but Scottie actually didn't score as often and Jordan was at his all time best. I seriously don't think you realize how great Michael Jordan was. It was the opposite of Magic Johnson in that Magic could have complete control of a game and dominate without scoring a point. Jordan would dominate with the ball in hard and driving to the lane in every play. MJ knew his strengths and weaknesses, which is why he didn't shoot over 2-3 3pointers a game in any season.
WITHOUT STATS, I'll tell you exactly what I saw from Kobe and Jordan
Kobe has a better outside shot
Jordan was stronger and got inside more
Jordan was better at defense
Jordan was a better closer in clutch time
Jordan played the center position in the triangle offense, well either Shaq or Gasol played the center on the Lakers. that means they were in the paint with the ball in their hands. Jordan did that for the Bulls, he drew everyone inside and then either kicked it out or did that crazy turn around jumper, usually it was the turn around jumper.
Kobe got close when he was at his best. Kobe at his best was the closest I ever saw anyone, INCLUDING LEBRON, getting to MJ, but he just never got there.
That's what I saw, no stats, but just straight up living my life in the 90's and 2000's doing nothing but watching basketball. I was worst than you, trust me on that.
gtfoh, like i said, u dont know the first thing about kobe if u think he doesn't believe he's untouchable......he even said it recently:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1489271-kobe-bryant-says-hes-best-of-all-time-would-beat-lebron-james-in-one-on-one
...he also said he would beat MJ one-on-one a couple months ago...i posted it up if u look back.
but of course he's gunna call MJ the greatest, it's called paying respect.. who the fuck goes out and flat out says "i'm the greatest of all time!"?...at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, Kobe is waiting to capture that 6th and 7th ring to view himself as surpassing Jordan career-wise.. so now, Jordan has had the better career....another thing Kobe has on Jordan, Kobe is so much better than Jordan was at this point in their career. seriously, the stuff Kobe has been doing 17 seasons into his career is unheard of. it's just adding to the legacy. and if Kobe can reform his game to a 23 points-10 assist player and win a couple more rings...godaymn. skys the limit for his legacy, foreal. Kobe, in his prime, facilitated a whole lot more than MJ and plays off the ball less, because he never had anyone on the perimeter like Pippen....hence, more turnovers. i really dont even know what kinda stat-lines Kobe would have if he played with Pippen shutting down opposing perimeter players and facilitating the offense, but i know it would be incredible....dont get me wrong, mdoggydogg. i realize how great Jordan was. theres no denying his amazing capabilities. but i dont think YOU realize how circumstantial all of it really was...how much the media influenced the minds of the masses (including you), and how he was placed in a perfect scenario to excel and made to look untouchable.
kobe could shoot better, handle the ball better, might go through more cold stretches (u think teammates dont play a role in this? lol), but deadlier when he heats up...jordan is made to look like a better defender because he didnt have to lock down the best player on the perimeter night in and night out ala kobe (which also helps his offense)......it's all circumstantial, brodie. at the end of the day, 81 point kobe could take 69 point jordan, and thats all there is to it. disagree all u want, but dont do urself the disservice of laughin it off.
All i hear is that, he's better, but if he's not then it's is teammate's fault... GTFO. You have been schooled this whole thread by me and honestly it's getting boring schooling you over and over, over the same points.
Face facts, Jordan was better, that's that. Every statistic shows, it, everyone who's seen both at their best will tell you, every great player will tell you. It's close on offense, but it's on defense were Jordan rises above Kobe.
All you do is talk out your ass and when you are proven wrong, you have someone to blame. Your like that kid who gets in trouble, then snitches on all his friends to get a lighter sentence. Then again, Kobe's a snitch so I guess are just like your hero and that's why you ride for him so hard.
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I'm telling you. Nigga needs five days to sit in the corner and reevaluate life.
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I don't know why you still arguing with Nik about that Jordan/Bryant thing, M Dogg. It's obvious you won't change his mind on this subject, even if you'll bring the best arguments. I stopped reading this topic and take it seriously after he stated that Kobe was a better deffender than Michael.
Nik, you got the right to have your own opinion - I respect it, even tho it irritates the fuck out of me how you constantly downplaying Michael Jordan's greatness in order to bring your boy Kobe everytime into the discussion. Just make sure to add that little "IN MY OPINION" sentence everytime you'll write that KB>MJ.
Thanks.
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kobe at his best was better than jordan, but because jordan has the accolades and rings, he's considered the hands-down GOAT...
Here we go again with yet another absurd statement by the ultimate Kobe-lover. It's ridiculous how you twist things to get this conversation going... so let me get this straight - the general public is wrong viewing MJ as a better player than Kobe, but under these same circumstances they are right saying Bryant was greater than Duncan as the best player of this era?
And I would ask you again - what made you think that Kobe was better than MJ? Is this a FACT, a STATEMENT or simply what you believe in? Cause your speaking like it's a well known FACT and everybody knows that.
Your saying I'm "taking shots" @ Kobe, yet your the one who's constantly trying to downplay Jordan in order to convince people Bryant is/was better - that's pathetic.
Statements like this by NIK is why he's considered such a joke on this site. Yes, he knows enough about ball to make some intelligent comments, but his bias clouds his judgement far too often
Great argument, from the poster who never says shit....
Tell me what mj could do that kobe in his prime couldn't or Stfu
Jordan in his late 20's found a way to shoot over 50%. Bryant never shot over 46%. Before the age of 33, Jordan only had 1 season where he didn't get at least 2 steals a game, Bryant never had any season over 2 steals a game, so basically be an effective scorer and play defense and create turnovers. So play offense and defense. The only thing Kobe is head and shoulders better the Michael is 3 point shooting. Kobe has a lower % because he takes way more 3's, and in one season he made about as many 3's as Michael attempted, and Michael only had 2 seasons with really high % 3 pointers but he attempted very few. Other than that, every single thing you can think of, MJ did better than Kobe. Stats wise, rebounds and assist, they are almost even with MJ having a slight lead in both, per years in their prime. Points wise, MJ is ahead by a healthy margin. Steals, it's not even close, blocks in their prime, Kobe is about half a block a game in his prime, MJ was closer to 1 block a game in his prime. So yeah, prime for prime, it's kind of close on offense, defense it's not even close, but both edges go to MJ.
Plus Kobe says that MJ was the greatest ever.
http://www.youtube.com/v/iZwEmDBbze4?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0
Let Kobe be Kobe.
the old fg% argument lmao...never fails. the reason MJ shot over 50% was because he had no range. the less range u have, the higher ur fg% is. i've explained this numerous times on here, thats a minus for jordan, not a plus...but i guess chris andersen is by far the best player in the playoffs, since he shoots 80% from the field lmao...and if ur only argument is looking up stats, then dont even bother. i can show u a lot of stats that show lebron to be better than MJ, as well, but we all know how far off from the truth that is...point is, MJ played for a better Bulls team where the offense revolved around him to perfection. if Kobe played for teams like that in his prime, he coulda had some 40 PPG seasons. believe that. also, defensive stats dont make u a better defender. in fact, most of the top defenders average less steals and blocks, because they dont gamble and shut down their man by stayin in front, not taking risks or letting their man beat them to collect weak side steals+blocks. u learn this in high school. thats why bruce bowen, one of the top defenders of all time, averaged less than a block and a steal a game.
Kobe Bryant told Michael Jordan he could 'kick his a**' one on one
POSTED: Saturday, May 18, 2013, 4:31 PM
Phil Jackson is at it again. The man known by many as the “Zen master” is the king of controversy via the written word. Whether exploring Kobe’s early selfishness in The Last Season, or just teasing the twitterverse with vague yet informative tweets, Phil has never feared ruffling some feathers.
His new book, aptly titled 11 Rings: The Soul of Success, available everywhere on May 21, apparently finds Phil focusing on a Michael Jordan/Kobe Bryant comparison; a conversation Jackson has largely shied away from in the past.
Considering Jackson is the man that led both MJ and Kobe to all of their collective NBA titles, it is interesting to finally hear his insight on the issue.
It is safe to say that Phil didn’t disappoint.
Jackson states that Bryant’s desire to not only be great, but to be literally better than Jordan was evident early on, and in 11 Rings, he reflects fondly on a face-to-face meeting between Michael and Kobe during his first season as head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers.
"Kobe was hell-bent on surpassing Jordan as the greatest player in the game. His obsession with Michael was striking," Jackson begins.
Even to the casual fan the similarities between the two were extremely evident.
"When we played in Chicago that season, I orchestrated a meeting between the two stars, thinking that Michael might help shift Kobe's attitude toward selfless teamwork,” Jackson continued.
After they shook hands, the first words out of Kobe's mouth were, 'You know I can kick your a** one on one.'"
Yep, sounds like Kobe. After all, it is bold, brash statements like this that have helped made Kobe such a polarizing player.
Some may call him crazy, but no one can claim that Kobe lacks confidence, for good or for bad.
Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/Kobe-Bryant-told-Michael-Jordan-he-could-kick-his-as-one-on-one.html#Er75WQAcucEpTq1F.99
suck it, jordan fan.
Oh trust me, I'm the last person you'd think was a Jordan fan if you start the Magic vs. MJ thing. You'd think I was the biggest Jordan hater ever. But I have accepted the fact that people think of the of MJ as the greatest and I'll leave it as that.
And that was young Kobe talking. The Kobe I posted is older Kobe who had already been through the league. You are saying 22 year old Kobe is telling the truth and 30 year old Kobe doesn't know what he's talking about. Dude, Let Kobe Be Kobe.
And I've mentioned that in their primes, Kobe makes as many 3's as Jordan attempts. But FG% is important because if you are bricking the ball, then that's almost like a turnover. Which BTW, Kobe has about double the turnovers in his prime as Jordan in his prime, per game of course.
Here is another weakness in your argument, I saw and watched both in their primes, and I was old enough to actually take in what I saw. I saw Jordan in 1991 when he beat my Lakers and Magic Johnson. I actually cried, and I mean I cried. Not as hard as when Magic announced he had HIV, I was crying for about an hour. Well you were a little kid, I was old enough to see everything. There was no point in Kobe's career that I said, this guy is better than Jordan. Maybe close to getting to that level, but never reaching or surpassing that level, at all.
I mean, you can't describe what it was like watching Michael play on a nightly bases in the early 90's. In the late 90's, I'd say the Bulls were just a better team, but the early 90's when it was BJ Armstrong, Michael Jordan, Horace Grant and Stacy King, you just saw Michael just DOMINATE games. Yeah BJ and Grant scored more than Harper and Rodman, but Scottie actually didn't score as often and Jordan was at his all time best. I seriously don't think you realize how great Michael Jordan was. It was the opposite of Magic Johnson in that Magic could have complete control of a game and dominate without scoring a point. Jordan would dominate with the ball in hard and driving to the lane in every play. MJ knew his strengths and weaknesses, which is why he didn't shoot over 2-3 3pointers a game in any season.
WITHOUT STATS, I'll tell you exactly what I saw from Kobe and Jordan
Kobe has a better outside shot
Jordan was stronger and got inside more
Jordan was better at defense
Jordan was a better closer in clutch time
Jordan played the center position in the triangle offense, well either Shaq or Gasol played the center on the Lakers. that means they were in the paint with the ball in their hands. Jordan did that for the Bulls, he drew everyone inside and then either kicked it out or did that crazy turn around jumper, usually it was the turn around jumper.
Kobe got close when he was at his best. Kobe at his best was the closest I ever saw anyone, INCLUDING LEBRON, getting to MJ, but he just never got there.
That's what I saw, no stats, but just straight up living my life in the 90's and 2000's doing nothing but watching basketball. I was worst than you, trust me on that.
gtfoh, like i said, u dont know the first thing about kobe if u think he doesn't believe he's untouchable......he even said it recently:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1489271-kobe-bryant-says-hes-best-of-all-time-would-beat-lebron-james-in-one-on-one
...he also said he would beat MJ one-on-one a couple months ago...i posted it up if u look back.
but of course he's gunna call MJ the greatest, it's called paying respect.. who the fuck goes out and flat out says "i'm the greatest of all time!"?...at the end of the day, when it comes down to it, Kobe is waiting to capture that 6th and 7th ring to view himself as surpassing Jordan career-wise.. so now, Jordan has had the better career....another thing Kobe has on Jordan, Kobe is so much better than Jordan was at this point in their career. seriously, the stuff Kobe has been doing 17 seasons into his career is unheard of. it's just adding to the legacy. and if Kobe can reform his game to a 23 points-10 assist player and win a couple more rings...godaymn. skys the limit for his legacy, foreal. Kobe, in his prime, facilitated a whole lot more than MJ and plays off the ball less, because he never had anyone on the perimeter like Pippen....hence, more turnovers. i really dont even know what kinda stat-lines Kobe would have if he played with Pippen shutting down opposing perimeter players and facilitating the offense, but i know it would be incredible....dont get me wrong, mdoggydogg. i realize how great Jordan was. theres no denying his amazing capabilities. but i dont think YOU realize how circumstantial all of it really was...how much the media influenced the minds of the masses (including you), and how he was placed in a perfect scenario to excel and made to look untouchable.
kobe could shoot better, handle the ball better, might go through more cold stretches (u think teammates dont play a role in this? lol), but deadlier when he heats up...jordan is made to look like a better defender because he didnt have to lock down the best player on the perimeter night in and night out ala kobe (which also helps his offense)......it's all circumstantial, brodie. at the end of the day, 81 point kobe could take 69 point jordan, and thats all there is to it. disagree all u want, but dont do urself the disservice of laughin it off.
All i hear is that, he's better, but if he's not then it's is teammate's fault... GTFO. You have been schooled this whole thread by me and honestly it's getting boring schooling you over and over, over the same points.
Face facts, Jordan was better, that's that. Every statistic shows, it, everyone who's seen both at their best will tell you, every great player will tell you. It's close on offense, but it's on defense were Jordan rises above Kobe.
All you do is talk out your ass and when you are proven wrong, you have someone to blame. Your like that kid who gets in trouble, then snitches on all his friends to get a lighter sentence. Then again, Kobe's a snitch so I guess are just like your hero and that's why you ride for him so hard.
lol the kobe hatred couldnt be anymore glaringly obvious, mdoggy. seriously, u must still be butthurt over shaq leavin the lakers, take it easy, son. if someone read ur posts without seeing ur name, they'd definitely think u were the typical laker hater...but it's all good, at least u can cover up ur lack of support for the current lakers by your wise tidbits from the 80s, such as bob mcadoo averaging 25 points alongside magic n kareem.
if u wanna attribute jordan bein better due to him bein the better defender, when kobe was always assigned the best perimeter player on the opposing team, while pippen took the priority of doin that for the bulls, go ahead. but on offense, kobe has the records...kobe has the 81 point game. most threes in nba history. 62 points in 3 quarters. most consecutive games in nba history with 50+ points. most all-star appearances, mvps, even this year, kobe became the first player at least 34 years of age to score 30+ points in 7+ consecutive games.......face it, kobe in his prime could beat jordan 1-on-1...all u did by laughin that of was prove where ur loyalty stands, and ur a featherweight nowadays when it comes to bein a laker fan. maybe in the 80s, u were top dog. but now uv fallen. fall back.
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I stopped reading this topic and take it seriously after he stated that Kobe was a better deffender than Michael.
i guess u didnt stop reading then, cuz i never said that LOL