West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Trauma-san on July 16, 2003, 05:30:29 PM
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Why are people so ignorant?
Not mentioning any names, but what kind of bitch would say something about Hindus and Elephants? Is he REALLY that ignorant? I know people like this that are christians, you say "Hindu" to them, and they think it's some weird crap dealing with Elephants. While I'm sure Hindus have some connection to holy animals, don't they realize that the reasoning behind this connection/belief/theory/religion has THOUSANDS of years of history behind it? THOUSANDS of years, of MILLIONS of people thinking about this religion. Imagine how complex the Hindu religion must be, if Millions of people have been following it, finding explanations for it, for thousands of years. Can 1 person really, really think that it just deserves a passing thought, and can be summarily dismissed on one idea?
And Christians... to say, "I accepted Jesus Christ, now what? Nothing changed!" Is the most asinine thing I think I've ever heard. Christianity, in a true sense, as practiced in the bible, goes MUCH, MUCH deeper than just saying Jesus Christ is your personal savior. For someone to think that's all their is to it, shows their shallowness, and utter FAILURE to realize even 1 10th of a percent of the theory, logic, and history behind the religion. I mean, you can literally, spend YEARS studying the bible, and studying different passages, the history of the people that wrote them, the history of the Kings mentioned in the old testament, etc. etc. etc. To think that you can SUMMARILY dismiss the entire Christian idea with 1 sentence shows an unmentionable level of arrogance.
Same thing with Jews. First, the statement was false, you don't have to be born a jew. The whole statement had a hole in it from the beginning. Again, he doesn't understand even the FIRST CONCEPT of Judaism, and yet he thinks he can summarily dismiss it.
Unbelievably Arrogant. I give people player passes when they don't accept a religion, believe it to be false, etc. but to just mock it, and actually attack a religion, and it's followers, is extremely poor taste, in my opinion. If you dont' believe in it, that's your perogative, I don't believe in every religion, save christianity, lol. I can still recognize that most religions have good aspects, and they are all so incredibly similar it really makes you question if every religion isn't an offspring of some original religion, and they've all been twisted and changed over time.
Comments like that coming from a muslim, also, make all your muslim brothers look bad. I hope and believe that's not representative of what you're taught as a student of Islam, and if you think God wants you to attack your brothers, you're sadly mistaken.
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hmmmmmm call it hunch but i think some1 was talking about the closet homosexual of the board *cough*brian*cough*
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this brian?
(http://odia.ig.com.br/sites/bsb/fotos/pbrian.jpg)
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lol damn trauma, respect man.. now I feel bad for the couple times I discreditted islam immaturely "jizzlam, etc" -it was all fun and jokes anyway.
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only one word came to mind when i saw the title of this thread....
"Redundant"
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Are one of those people you are refering to can any chance be me?
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While I'm sure Hindus have some connection to holy animals, don't they realize that the reasoning behind this connection/belief/theory/religion has THOUSANDS of years of history behind it? THOUSANDS of years, of MILLIONS of people thinking about this religion. Imagine how complex the Hindu religion must be, if Millions of people have been following it, finding explanations for it, for thousands of years. Can 1 person really, really think that it just deserves a passing thought, and can be summarily dismissed on one idea?
Hinduism claims that reality as we know it is an illusion-maya. We're each part of the illusion and have no true individual identity.
If I am part of the illusion how could I know it? How could I possess true knowledge that I don't exist, or have any knowledge at all if I'm not real? Do the individuals in a dream know they're mere phantoms? Does Charlie Brown know he's a cartoon character?
The Hindu concept that the world is an illusion contradicts the idea that I can have the knowledge that I'm only an illusion, rendering Hinduism self-refuting and thus false.
Christianity, in a true sense, as practiced in the bible, goes MUCH, MUCH deeper than just saying Jesus Christ is your personal savior. For someone to think that's all their is to it, shows their shallowness, and utter FAILURE to realize even 1 10th of a percent of the theory, logic, and history behind the religion. I mean, you can literally, spend YEARS studying the bible, and studying different passages, the history of the people that wrote them, the history of the Kings mentioned in the old testament, etc. etc. etc. To think that you can SUMMARILY dismiss the entire Christian idea with 1 sentence shows an unmentionable level of arrogance.
Let's not get too arrogant of ourselves now. Really it doesn't matter just how much passages or teachings a religion has that makes it any harder or easier to prove false. Rather if you find a contradiction or other flaw in just the basic principle on which the religion lies then logically it renders all other teahcings false.
For e.g being a christian how would you answer an argument such as:
"You say that God is omnipotent and He is also perfectly good. Those are in contradiction. Why?. Because omnipotent means He is able to do anything, which would include being able to do immoral things. But a perfectly good creature would not be able to do so, and so you Christians are essentially saying God is able to do immoral things and He is not able to do immoral things at the same time."
or rather:
"Well then it seems logically possible to imagine a being greater than your being. If your being is the greatest of all possible beings and I can imagine a being, one even greater than that, then your being must not be the greatest of all possible beings. I can imagine one greater. I can imagine one that can do all kind of things and more; he can do bad things too. Therefore your God who is not capable of doing bad things is an inferior God."
I'll wait for your surely interesting reply.
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Nah, i've said what I wanted to say, I didn't intend it to be an argument on the validity of religions. I said my thoughts, you said yours, arguing about it is useless.
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Nah, i've said what I wanted to say, I didn't intend it to be an argument on the validity of religions. I said my thoughts, you said yours, arguing about it is useless.
fair nuff. I respect that. However I doubt having a discussion in which we use logic and facts to support or refute a point would have been "useless".
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^^trust me... it would have broken out into an ugly argument.
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While I'm sure Hindus have some connection to holy animals, don't they realize that the reasoning behind this connection/belief/theory/religion has THOUSANDS of years of history behind it? THOUSANDS of years, of MILLIONS of people thinking about this religion. Imagine how complex the Hindu religion must be, if Millions of people have been following it, finding explanations for it, for thousands of years. Can 1 person really, really think that it just deserves a passing thought, and can be summarily dismissed on one idea?
Hinduism claims that reality as we know it is an illusion-maya. We're each part of the illusion and have no true individual identity.
If I am part of the illusion how could I know it? How could I possess true knowledge that I don't exist, or have any knowledge at all if I'm not real? Do the individuals in a dream know they're mere phantoms? Does Charlie Brown know he's a cartoon character?
The Hindu concept that the world is an illusion contradicts the idea that I can have the knowledge that I'm only an illusion, rendering Hinduism self-refuting and thus false.
Christianity, in a true sense, as practiced in the bible, goes MUCH, MUCH deeper than just saying Jesus Christ is your personal savior. For someone to think that's all their is to it, shows their shallowness, and utter FAILURE to realize even 1 10th of a percent of the theory, logic, and history behind the religion. I mean, you can literally, spend YEARS studying the bible, and studying different passages, the history of the people that wrote them, the history of the Kings mentioned in the old testament, etc. etc. etc. To think that you can SUMMARILY dismiss the entire Christian idea with 1 sentence shows an unmentionable level of arrogance.
Let's not get too arrogant of ourselves now. Really it doesn't matter just how much passages or teachings a religion has that makes it any harder or easier to prove false. Rather if you find a contradiction or other flaw in just the basic principle on which the religion lies then logically it renders all other teahcings false.
For e.g being a christian how would you answer an argument such as:
"You say that God is omnipotent and He is also perfectly good. Those are in contradiction. Why?. Because omnipotent means He is able to do anything, which would include being able to do immoral things. But a perfectly good creature would not be able to do so, and so you Christians are essentially saying God is able to do immoral things and He is not able to do immoral things at the same time."
or rather:
"Well then it seems logically possible to imagine a being greater than your being. If your being is the greatest of all possible beings and I can imagine a being, one even greater than that, then your being must not be the greatest of all possible beings. I can imagine one greater. I can imagine one that can do all kind of things and more; he can do bad things too. Therefore your God who is not capable of doing bad things is an inferior God."
I'll wait for your surely interesting reply.
No thats not true...Hinduism is such a complex religion that theres many trains of thought about certain things, like Rastafarianism. That illusion-maya thing, I personally never heard about it...mayb what thhe concept was that the REAL WORLD as we know it iz an illusion, and the reality iz that we are souls not human beings, in a spiritual world, and this is really just a game. :o Like I was saying hinduism is really complex and it should be considering its the oldest popular religion.
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No thats not true...Hinduism is such a complex religion that theres many trains of thought about certain things, like Rastafarianism. That illusion-maya thing, I personally never heard about it...mayb what thhe concept was that the REAL WORLD as we know it iz an illusion, and the reality iz that we are souls not human beings, in a spiritual world, and this is really just a game. :o Like I was saying hinduism is really complex and it should be considering its the oldest popular religion.
I gather that this is your own speculation. However an analysis of the religion reveals otherwise.
The main strain of Hinduism is the one that teaches monism. Monism is that there is only one reality and that reality is a unity. There's only one thing that really exists in the universe and that's Brahmin, and there is no differentiation in Brahmin. So everything that seems like differentiation, like the fact that you exist or anything exists, is really an illusion. The Hindu term for that is "Maya". The world is simply an illusion. It has nothing to do with if we are actually souls or whatever, it simply states that we ourselves are illusions, as well as the rest of the world.
If Hinduism is true how could we possible know it, because the only way we could know it was true was by measuring and sensing and testing our environment. But since our very environment is an illusion we could not know.
Many Hindu's do realise that their faith seems to have some sort of contradiction but alot of them pass it off, calling the notion of contradiction a western idea and since ultimately knowledge doesnt exist ultimately nothing exists at all so contradiction doesn't exist. This is harmful when applying the idea of Karma. If the Hindu admits that nothing really exists, then karma doesn't exist. How would the Hindu know for sure what is Karma?(which by the way seems very egoistic and self-servng)
Another view of most Hindu's is that logic isn't the way to truth, experience is. However when one says "You actually do think logic is the way to truth" the Hindu replies "No it isn't". They have just used logic to accept the idea of a contradiction that logic and experience can't be both the way to truth using their own philosophy. However they have just used logic to find this very truth!. The whole idea is self-refuting.
So a person who rejects rationality, a person who rejects logic, a person who rejects the world as a real thing and contends that it is merely an illusion can therefore have nothing to say about the real world cause the real world isn't real. And any commentary on it would acknowledge it's reality. Any commentary trying to correct your view so that you may believe the world is an illusion would have to use rationality..that doesn't exist!
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No thats not true...Hinduism is such a complex religion that theres many trains of thought about certain things, like Rastafarianism. That illusion-maya thing, I personally never heard about it...mayb what thhe concept was that the REAL WORLD as we know it iz an illusion, and the reality iz that we are souls not human beings, in a spiritual world, and this is really just a game. :o Like I was saying hinduism is really complex and it should be considering its the oldest popular religion.
I gather that this is your own speculation. However an analysis of the religion reveals otherwise.
The main strain of Hinduism is the one that teaches monism. Monism is that there is only one reality and that reality is a unity. There's only one thing that really exists in the universe and that's Brahmin, and there is no differentiation in Brahmin. So everything that seems like differentiation, like the fact that you exist or anything exists, is really an illusion. The Hindu term for that is "Maya". The world is simply an illusion. It has nothing to do with if we are actually souls or whatever, it simply states that we ourselves are illusions, as well as the rest of the world.
If Hinduism is true how could we possible know it, because the only way we could know it was true was by measuring and sensing and testing our environment. But since our very environment is an illusion we could not know.
Many Hindu's do realise that their faith seems to have some sort of contradiction but alot of them pass it off, calling the notion of contradiction a western idea and since ultimately knowledge doesnt exist ultimately nothing exists at all so contradiction doesn't exist. This is harmful when applying the idea of Karma. If the Hindu admits that nothing really exists, then karma doesn't exist. How would the Hindu know for sure what is Karma?(which by the way seems very egoistic and self-servng)
Another view of most Hindu's is that logic isn't the way to truth, experience is. However when one says "You actually do think logic is the way to truth" the Hindu replies "No it isn't". They have just used logic to accept the idea of a contradiction that logic and experience can't be both the way to truth using their own philosophy. However they have just used logic to find this very truth!. The whole idea is self-refuting.
So a person who rejects rationality, a person who rejects logic, a person who rejects the world as a real thing and contends that it is merely an illusion can therefore have nothing to say about the real world cause the real world isn't real. And any commentary on it would acknowledge it's reality. Any commentary trying to correct your view so that you may believe the world is an illusion would have to use rationality..that doesn't exist!
and where did u learn all this?
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Research. The reading of literature by higher authorities on the subject many of them obviously being Hindus themselves. And talking with a Hindu myself.
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Thankfully I don't have to quote it because quake already did.
But unnaturally large portions of that post are directly lifted from this webpage.
http://www.str.org/free/commentaries/misc_topics/reflecti.htm
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XXXPOSED!!!!!!! 8)
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damn this shit can be confusing... im out!!!
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peeps b thinkin mexicans cant be jewish n shit dat shit b pisin me of jewish is da first religin n shit n peopl can convirt 2 it not only gringos b jewish
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peeps b thinkin mexicans cant be jewish n shit dat shit b pisin me of jewish is da first religin n shit n peopl can convirt 2 it not only gringos b jewish
I'm not sayin that mexicans can't be jewish but its just odd to me...never met one...or heard of one
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peeps b thinkin mexicans cant be jewish n shit dat shit b pisin me of jewish is da first religin n shit n peopl can convirt 2 it not only gringos b jewish
n0o0o0o he is bacc!!!!!!!!!!
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peeps b thinkin mexicans cant be jewish n shit dat shit b pisin me of jewish is da first religin n shit n peopl can convirt 2 it not only gringos b jewish
n0o0o0o he is bacc!!!!!!!!!!
He claims he ain't Hater Player LOL
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peeps b thinkin mexicans cant be jewish n shit dat shit b pisin me of jewish is da first religin n shit n peopl can convirt 2 it not only gringos b jewish
n0o0o0o he is bacc!!!!!!!!!!
He claims he ain't Hater Player LOL
ROTFLMAO
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whos back puto i m not hater player
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whos back puto i m not hater player
who are u? ROTFLMAO
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XXXPOSED!!!!!!! 8)
How does this count as me being truly exposed?. I already said that I know this from the reading of literatur by higher authorities on the subject.for e.g said mentioned site. Either way the arguments still apply.
That said however I did misrepresent some information about whether souls had anything to do with it and on that account you were right in the sense that the souls of everybody are part of the essence of Brahmin. However this still does not affect the argument as the religion still maintains that both body and MIND are an illusion. Since the mind is an illusion and it is that which thinks, the argument still stands. It's sorta like Stan Lee and Spiderman. One can argue that the instruments Stan lee uses are merely an extension of himself which he uses to create the illusionary world portrayed in spiderman. However Spiderman can never atain true knowledge that he doesn't exist.
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XXXPOSED!!!!!!! 8)
How does this count as me being truly exposed?. I already said that I know this from the reading of literatur by higher authorities on the subject.for e.g said mentioned site. Either way the arguments still apply.
That said however I did misrepresent some information about whether souls had anything to do with it and on that account you were right in the sense that the souls of everybody are part of the essence of Brahmin. However this still does not affect the argument as the religion still maintains that both body and MIND are an illusion. Since the mind is an illusion and it is that which thinks, the argument still stands. It's sorta like Stan Lee and Spiderman. One can argue that the instruments Stan lee uses are merely an extension of himself which he uses to create the illusionary world portrayed in spiderman. However Spiderman can never atain true knowledge that he doesn't exist.
'u werre lieng cuzz' in the words of the biggest retard on WCC...
U said they were Hindus (the higher authority) adn this website is a christian biased one..
Yeah I know I was right about souls 8) and I think of souls having minds...a mind iz inside a soul...its not anything physical, its mental/spiritual. so the argument is not true. Only the physical world is an "illusion"...as in its just a play we are running thru and its a cycle. Karma affects ur chances and luck and status in this play.
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Thankfully I don't have to quote it because quake already did.
But unnaturally large portions of that post are directly lifted from this webpage.
http://www.str.org/free/commentaries/misc_topics/reflecti.htm
Yup, that's almost as bad as the stuff Owen used to do... Oh, WAIT A MINUTE!!!!
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LOL...Seer checked, its not him..
UNLESS hes in USA visiting his "gf" or something of that sort....hmmmm
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Owen's not even in the U.S.?
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Owen's not even in the U.S.?
he is in Canada.... i think
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wtf
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wtf
wtf@what?
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1. Nice job on the XXXposing.
2. Yes, Hinduism is a complex religion. It also involves mathematics and astrology, which is astonishing considering the fact that the religion was established so much longer before the modern "Big 3" (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). The ideals it revolves around are pretty cool, yet extremely hard to believe/grasp.
Just my 2 cents....
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dont u gotta get punked to be hindu? im out!!!
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wtf
wtf@what?
about the he's in canada thing... before he deleted his account he was in england.. did u think he's canadian or something, or know something i dont?
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wtf
wtf@what?
about the he's in canada thing... before he deleted his account he was in england.. did u think he's canadian or something, or know something i dont?
well i thought he told me he was an canada when he IMed me... but he coulda said he was in tha UK lol i really dont know i jus know he travels alot and why does he travel alot? his number one bitch TJ never told him to get at me i guess.... i need to aski him sumthing... im out!!!
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'u werre lieng cuzz' in the words of the biggest retard on WCC...
U said they were Hindus (the higher authority) adn this website is a christian biased one..
No you've misquoted me. I said MANY(not all) of the higher authorities that I've read on are Hindus. Said site is not my only source of information,but it worded the arguments in a way I felt was best apporopriate.
Yeah I know I was right about souls 8) and I think of souls having minds...a mind iz inside a soul...its not anything physical, its mental/spiritual. so the argument is not true. Only the physical world is an "illusion"...as in its just a play we are running thru and its a cycle. Karma affects ur chances and luck and status in this play.
It maintains that OUR own minds...(which are not physical) is an illusion. And the only way we can escape the illusion and become one with Brahmin (i.e to realise our 'true' identity) is to go through the karmic cycle. Therefore we are not connected to this essence or soul or whatever..till the karmic cycle is over. Since our minds are not physical and are an illusion there is still no way we could know that we are an illusion. The argument still stands.
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wtf
wtf@what?
about the he's in canada thing... before he deleted his account he was in england.. did u think he's canadian or something, or know something i dont?
You've GOT to be kidding me. He acted to me like he lived on the east coast, and his uncle had a farm in Monroe, down the street from me. He also used to ask me about if I thought it was cool his girlfriend (pictured) was coming over to spend the weekend with him. Then I find out he was making the girlfriend stuff up, she didn't even exist. I LET THAT PASS. Then he starts flipping out, trash talking mormons, etc. blah blah blah, yall know the rest.
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wtf
wtf@what?
about the he's in canada thing... before he deleted his account he was in england.. did u think he's canadian or something, or know something i dont?
You've GOT to be kidding me. He acted to me like he lived on the east coast, and his uncle had a farm in Monroe, down the street from me. He also used to ask me about if I thought it was cool his girlfriend (pictured) was coming over to spend the weekend with him. Then I find out he was making the girlfriend stuff up, she didn't even exist. I LET THAT PASS. Then he starts flipping out, trash talking mormons, etc. blah blah blah, yall know the rest.
"Maybe Im so disrespectful cuz to me ur a mystery..."
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'u werre lieng cuzz' in the words of the biggest retard on WCC...
U said they were Hindus (the higher authority) adn this website is a christian biased one..
No you've misquoted me. I said MANY(not all) of the higher authorities that I've read on are Hindus. Said site is not my only source of information,but it worded the arguments in a way I felt was best apporopriate.
Yeah I know I was right about souls 8) and I think of souls having minds...a mind iz inside a soul...its not anything physical, its mental/spiritual. so the argument is not true. Only the physical world is an "illusion"...as in its just a play we are running thru and its a cycle. Karma affects ur chances and luck and status in this play.
It maintains that OUR own minds...(which are not physical) is an illusion. And the only way we can escape the illusion and become one with Brahmin (i.e to realise our 'true' identity) is to go through the karmic cycle. Therefore we are not connected to this essence or soul or whatever..till the karmic cycle is over. Since our minds are not physical and are an illusion there is still no way we could know that we are an illusion. The argument still stands.
If we dont have minds of our own, we cant make choices adn therefore Karma is Bullshit..according to this "theory"...and we are always connected to our souls and minds...and Im pretty sure Hinduism maintains that..and if it really doesnt(which I doubt, cuz its stupid) then guess what: everyones not a religious fundamentalist like Infinite we got here who takes the holy words str8 100% to the heart. Peace.
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Yes, Hinduism is a complex religion. It also involves mathematics and astrology, which is astonishing considering the fact that the religion was established so much longer before the modern "Big 3" (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). The ideals it revolves around are pretty cool, yet extremely hard to believe/grasp.
I posted this earlier, but I'm just bumping up the thread in addition to getting it back on topic. Seems like it has turned into an America's Most Wanted episode of "Where's Owen?"