West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Lincoln on September 30, 2004, 07:41:43 PM
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Just finished watching.
I'm sorry, but Kerry is a (massive cliche) flip-flopper.
"The war in Iraq is the wrong war to be fighting."
"I would have invaded Iraq, but the President went about it the wrong way."
"Saddam Hussein was a threat. We needed to disarm him."
He said each of these 2-3 times.
Bush was stumbling on his words a bit, but overall he's one of the most improved politicians I've ever seen in respect to public speaking.
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kerry won the first round
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kerry won the first round
You think so? Didn't seem like a clear winner in any part, no real knockout punches.
Kerry needs to pull a Reagan in the next debates to have a chance at winning.
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didn't see it...i got this mexican buddy who's really into politics (goes to those leadership confrences in washington and europe every year)...he says Kerry won
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i dunno... its easy to point fingers and thats what kerry was doing.. and bush was defending himself well cause at the time, kerry voted for all the shit
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Just finished watching.
I'm sorry, but Kerry is a (massive cliche) flip-flopper.
"The war in Iraq is the wrong war to be fighting."
"I would have invaded Iraq, but the President went about it the wrong way."
"Saddam Hussein was a threat. We needed to disarm him."
He said each of these 2-3 times.
Bush was stumbling on his words a bit, but overall he's one of the most improved politicians I've ever seen in respect to public speaking.
You're not following up those statements with his explanations. He said based on the intellegence, Saddam was a threat and he needed to disarm. I don't see that as flip-flopping.
The main thing I saw flip flopping were the words of Bush whenever he stumbled them. He was on the defensive as well. Kerry brought up facts, Bush had to defend himself.
Kerry did good, but he still needs to do better if he wants a chance.
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Just finished watching.
I'm sorry, but Kerry is a (massive cliche) flip-flopper.
"The war in Iraq is the wrong war to be fighting."
"I would have invaded Iraq, but the President went about it the wrong way."
"Saddam Hussein was a threat. We needed to disarm him."
He said each of these 2-3 times.
Bush was stumbling on his words a bit, but overall he's one of the most improved politicians I've ever seen in respect to public speaking.
You're not following up those statements with his explanations. He said based on the intellegence, Saddam was a threat and he needed to disarm. I don't see that as flip-flopping.
The main thing I saw flip flopping were the words of Bush whenever he stumbled them. He was on the defensive as well. Kerry brought up facts, Bush had to defend himself.
Kerry did good, but he still needs to do better if he wants a chance.
Well then Kerry needed to be more clear. Had he recieved the same information that Bush did (and he did, that's why he voted on it) how can he say both that based on the info given they should have attacked, and that it's the wrong war? If I was Bush and I recieved the information, I'm sorry but I don't see how you can not attack. I'm sorry I'm against the war, but that's because I am not the person who has to make the decision.
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One more thought.
It wasn't a real debate, it was mainly them just explaining their positions. I do have to give the moderator thumbs up for actually allowing 30 second debate intervals, but it still wasn't a real debate.
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Sorry to post 3 times in a row ;D.
The Daily Show is doing a special coverage in like 2 minutes, I suggest everyone watch it.
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one thing i really liked was in the begining of the election was when kerry mentioned we have to improve relations with muslim community around the world. A lot questions, bush answered with indirect answers. Kerry really didnt say much in total but bush didnt say anything. I wouldnt call tonight a KO for kerry. But i still think he won this round of the debates.
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Sorry to post 3 times in a row ;D.
The Daily Show is doing a special coverage in like 2 minutes, I suggest everyone watch it.
i have it on
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Kerry did A LOT better than I expected.
If I had 10 points to give out, I'd give Kerry 6 or 7, and Bush 3 or 4.
No doubt in my mind Kerry won. Seemed like Bush ran out of shit to talk about 3/4 the way thru. It's not like Bush did a bad job, but there wasn't really an "Oh Snap" moment. It just seemed like he re-iterated the stuff he's talked about in the past.
Kerry was portrayed as inconsistent, but that’s nothing new. Even tho Kerry won, I doubt it changed many people’s minds.
One thing Kerry said that was really wack, was the "depends on the outcome" answer regarding the war and the worthiness of it. Also, it was funny when he went after the president on the war, when he voted for it.
Oh well, There are 2 more debates...
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I've still got my $$$ on Bush tho.
Mondale vs. Reagan 2.0
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i thought it was funny at the end when they were talking about n korea and bush responded with an answer about iraq.
EDIT: and that cant touch this shit is fucking annoying how do i turn it the fuck off?
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why do i hear MC hammers - cant touch this.. wen i go into this thread.. lmao
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Why the hell is Can't Touch This playing? LOL.
Anyways, I agreed with Bush that the coalition they have right now against North Korea is the best way to go about it. China can put immense pressure that other countries couldn't.
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Why the hell is Can't Touch This playing? LOL.
Anyways, I agreed with Bush that the coalition they have right now against North Korea is the best way to go about it. China can put immense pressure that other countries couldn't.
This is one thing that agree with that Bush said. A coalition is A LOT more effective.
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HOW in the fuck is cant touch this playing in this thread? LMAO
anyways, it was pretty entertaining, but they are both such full of shit its actually disgusting at times.
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i haven't seen it... i will watch something about it on the news.
did bush or kerry say something new?
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well the problem with Kerry is, he does everything to NOT piss anybody off. in consequence, it's also hard to gain true supporters.
with Bush, it's like the opposite. he doesnt give a shit if he does piss some ppl off big time... cause he also gains strong supporters.
you know what I mean?
I couldnt see the debate though... maybe find out some shit online.
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Saw a part of it. I think Kerry was better, he was more attacking and outgoing. Bush was more in a "defensive" position. Think Kerry has more humanitality than Bush also :P
But well the attacking-arguments of Kerry were a bit boring and too expected.
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i planned on watching the whole thing, but some stuff came up. i think kerry did better (anyone watch bush while he was listening to kerry rebuttle....they need to tell bush the cameras were still on him)
Except the 1 part twords the beginning. Bush said something like "kerry once said, saddam is a threat and needs to be taken out, anyone who doesnt realize that is not fit for the presidency....and i agree with him"
I had an o snap moment. I really think one of kerrys problems is that stuff he bashes bush on, he actually voted for in the senate.
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bush is a moron
The Daily Show CLOWNED HIS DUMB ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Daily show KNOWS WHATS up!
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I had an o snap moment. I really think one of kerrys problems is that stuff he bashes bush on, he actually voted for in the senate.
exactly.. which is why i dont think bush did that bad... kerry basicaly point the finger at bush... but at the time.. kerry voted for it the same way.. meaning he agreed with bush then... wtf....
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I think the thing Kerry got called out on the most was how he was going on about the lack of armor, good vehicles, etc... and the example of soldiers recieving better equipment for birthdays. I agreed with him. But.... he voted against the funding! Come on.
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I watched the whole thing, and I was impressed by both sides.
I am a Bush supporter, but Kerry did make some interesting points.
In the beginning of the debate, it was Bush who was strong, but Kerry had a much stronger finish than Bush.
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I was out n about cuzz tha homies had it on laughin n shit.....but 1 thing that sticks out in my mind was when Kerry was like he wants to double the armed forces n all that....but then Bush at the end said the Army will still be a voluntary thing if I get elected....does this mean anything regarding the draft on Kerry's side or am I trippin?
Kerry definitely won though.....
BUSH WAS STUTTERIN......STUTTA STUTTA !!!!!
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John Baer | 1st round goes to W.
Kerry needed a knockout, and he didn't get it
HILLARY won.
Or one of the Johns. You know, McCain or Edwards.
Or anybody else seriously looking to run in '08 after George W. Bush serves out his second term.
That's because John Kerry, who had to score a knockout last night, landed some punches but didn't take the title.
Yeah, he looked a little tougher than when he's windsurfing off Nantucket in spandex.
And, OK, he had a good line about how it's one thing to always be "certain" but one can, after all, be certain and wrong.
And he even seemed somewhat directed and focused.
But this debate, critical if not determinative to the outcome of the election, did not take Kerry where he needs to be.
Instead, the champ at staying on message is still the undisputed George W. Bush.
How so?
Because of one moment that defined the debate and the race.
When debate moderator Jim Lehrer asked Bush if there are "character issues" that maybe should keep Kerry from being president, Bush showed he's a consummate politician.
He first did some aw-shucks plain-speak. "Whew, that's a loaded question."
See, he's just folks.
Then he graciously praised Kerry's service to country and family, calling him "a great dad," and even praised his service in the Senate.
It was Bush being the nice guy, the guy people like. Brilliant.
Then he hit Kerry with the message of the night, indeed the campaign:
"He changes positions."
It was the pat on the back before slipping in the shiv.
It fit perfectly with his performance throughout the 90-minute encounter.
Bush over and over tagged Kerry for changing his position on Iraq and said several times one can't lead if you say, as Kerry has, it's "the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time."
Ah repetition. The mother's milk of campaign victories.
Plus Bush looked the part: aggressive, firm, strong.
From the moment he stalked across the stage (first one out of the wings) to Kerry's podium to shake his hand, to his tight-lipped PO'd look caught on camera as Kerry sniped at him, as opposed to Kerry's smiling and nodding as Bush swiped at him.
(Don't you think they should have traded ties? Kerry wore red, Bush blue, but their states are just the opposite colors.)
When Kerry got to answer the "character" question, he floated off on something about stem-cell research and global warming (the debate topic was foreign policy and homeland security).
And the fact Kerry spoke to Lehrer and not to me and not to voters and seemed more intent on showing how much he knows rather than how much he cares? I just think that's a killer.
Bush worked the camera and Lehrer with a nice mix of eye contact and practiced talking points.
He used his occasional 30-second extensions, a debate rule allowing for continued discussion of a single question, to answer every charge Kerry made.
Kerry, at least once, tried to do the same and couldn't even get Lehrer's attention.
Mostly Bush very much stayed the course.
The war is hard work, which he said, I don't know, a dozen times, but we're going to win. Saddam was a threat. America's safer.
"We're going to win this war in Iraq."
Kerry, when he finally looked into the camera for his closing remarks, said, "I believe America's best days are ahead of us."
For me, stuff like "whew, that's a loaded question" works much better.
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Gar Joseph | BEST & WORST IN DEBATE
clout@phillynews.com
NAPOLEON WAS once asked what qualities he looked for in choosing his generals.
"Luck," he replied. "I want generals who are lucky."
The Democrats' general, John "Reporting for duty" Kerry, needed to get lucky last night. And we don't mean with Teresa.
It didn't happen. President Bush made no gaffes to allow Kerry a clear triumph in their first debate. But Kerry spoke with enough clarity on Iraq and the war on terror that the Republicans may have to put their flip-flops away.
In case you were washing your hair and missed it, here's Clout's review of the debate.
Bush message
You can't win the war on terror if you send mixed messages. You have to show certainty and strength. Kerry doesn't. I do.
Kerry message
I'll hunt down and kill terrorists. But you have to be smart. Diverting troops from going after Osama bin Ladento invade Iraq was not smart. It was a "colossal error of judgment."
Bush's best moment
Two, really. One when he spoke of consoling Missy Johnson, the widow of a soldier killed in Iraq. The other when he praised Kerry's military service and the kindness of Kerry's daughters to his daughters. Bush makes his strongest connections with voters when he speaks of emotional, human moments.
Kerry's best moment
His closing: "Let me look you in the eye and say to you: I defended this country as a young man at war, and I will defend it as president of the United States...I have a plan for Iraq. I believe we can be successful. I'm not talking about leaving. I'm talking about winning. And we need a fresh start, a new credibility, a president who can bring allies to our side."
Bush's best attack line
"I don't see how you can lead this country to succeed in Iraq if you say wrong war, wrong time, wrong place. What message does that send our troops? What message does that send to our allies? What message does that send the Iraqis?"
Kerry's best attack line
"I agree with the comment made by the former terrorism czar [Richard Clarke]: Invading Iraq in response to 9/11 is like FDR invading Mexico in response to Pearl Harbor."
Smartest thing Bush said
"The military will be an all-volunteer Army." This should help quell the draft fears that might otherwise drive the usually moribund 18- to 25-year-old vote to the polls to cast ballots against Bush.
Smartest thing Kerry said
The U.S. can't stop nuclear proliferation as long as it's trying to develop a new set of nuclear weapons. Kerry said he'd halt the program.
Bush's worst moment
Several times the camera caught him grimacing and smirking as Kerry spoke. As Al "Deep Sighs" Gore learned in 2000, such body language alienates voters.
Kerry's worst moment
Throwing the words of President George H.W. Bush in the face of his son, by quoting from Bush the elder's book on why he decided against invading Iraq in Desert Storm. Cheap shot.
Oddest pronunciation
Referring to the leaders of Iran, Bush called the mullahs "moo-las."
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Bush is my choice for president, there's no doubt about that.
Thing is, He lost the debate. It doesn't take much to see that. Bush came with good points, but Kerry countered and looked much better. Sure he contradicted himself a bunch (past votes and comments), but as far as the debating goes, he won. He's a veteran debater and he did a really good job. I could find 100 op-ed articles saying bush won, and I could find 100 articles saying Kerry won.
I think Bush needs to realize he didn't do as good as he could have, and step his game up for the next debate. If he comes off thinking he won, bad things could happen in the next 2 debates.
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Bush stuttered.....ok whats your point.
I having never done a debate, think its probably extremly hard to do that. You dont know the questions before hand, and you have to basically think of everything on the spot....and there is a time limit.
Im sure the deabtes arent an easy thing to do so im not going to critisize either side for how they acted.
Kerry did make some good points, but some of his points contradicted himself either from his previous statements or from his voting in the senate.
but i dont really judge a president by the debates. Kerry made it seem like when he gets in office everything is going to change instantly....good luck with that.
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I think Kerry looked much more presidential than Bush as well. Doing this ::) and sighing whenever your opponent says something you disagree with is not something the leader of a powerful nation should be do
Bush will come back much more prepared.
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what does it matter bush stuttered? he always stutters when he's talking in public.
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Listened to the debate on the Radio. Could not see thier reactions, but heard that Bush played the camera much better like White Boy said. From what I was able to take in, Bush got beat pretty bad. I don't know how many fucking times I heard Bush say Wrong War, Wrong Place, Wrong Time. It got played out hard, and made it look like he had nothing else to lean on but Kerrys lack of support for the war BUSH started. I'm a republican, and it pained me to watch Bush get schooled. I just don't think either man is fit to run the country. :(
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I watched the debate. I think Kerry did much better than I thought he would. The most memorable part of the debate was when the moderator asked Bush if Kerry had any character flaws that would keep him from being an effective president. The reason this question was asked, was because many, many people such as Rush Limbaugh have constantly harped on how Kerry doesn't have the character to be president, how he's a liar, it's a character trait, he's a gigalo that marries rich women, etc.
Bush's Answer? I could have predicted it for you, but he said something to the effect of "I respect Senator Kerry for serving in the armed forces to help protect our country; I respect Mr. Kerry as a father, and I appreciate how kind his daughters have been to my daughters, the campaign I'm sure has been tough on both of our families with their fathers running for office; I respect Mr. Kerry's 20 years he has served in the senate" and kept it polite and civil, and even laughed with Kerry about his daughters. He didn't say 1 negative thing about Kerry when he was asked point blank to say something negative about him.
THAT is why you guys are 100 percent off base with your opinion of George Bush. Face it: He's a nice guy. All the evil yall attribute to him is nothing but bullshit insecurity from young, immature minds that are a poor, poor judge of character, even when it's obvious.
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Oh, and about who won. Kerry won, although the simplicity of the things Bush said simply couldn't be defended against in many cases. Kerry said he would form a strong coalition to win the war, but as Bush said 100 times, how can you convince people to come join a war that you claim is the wrong war, wrong place, wrong time? How can you convince people to join you in what you call a 'diversion'? There is NO defense against that argument; it's a perfect argument. Bush had several of these that night. Kerry is a very good speaker, though, and did a good job defending himself... the shocking thing was that Bush schooled him on the North Korea portion of the debate, in my opinion, and clearly was more familiar with the situation.
What is Bush's weakness? The War In Iraq. He survived this debate; the next debate is on economic policy, and Bush will destroy Kerry on the subject of taxes. Kerry wants to raise taxes, Bush wants to lower taxes; case closed.
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He survived this debate; the next debate is on economic policy, and Bush will destroy Kerry on the subject of taxes. Kerry wants to raise taxes, Bush wants to lower taxes; case closed.
Yep. Like I said before, it's gonna be a Regan vs Mondale 2.0...
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THAT is why you guys are 100 percent off base with your opinion of George Bush. Face it: He's a nice guy. All the evil yall attribute to him is nothing but bullshit insecurity from young, immature minds that are a poor, poor judge of character, even when it's obvious.
LMAO You expect him to go all out and shit on the guy during a debate that the entire world was watching? I am sure Bush is a really cool dude if you were to get to know him on a personal level, but what he said at the debates about Kerry proves nothing about his character. It was all show.
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Me and my friends smoked some chronic and laughed at Bush
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Me and my friends smoked some chronic and laughed at Bush
you're busy with politics when you're smoking weed? :sign_werd:
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Bush was awful.
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Me and my friends smoked some chronic and laughed at Bush
you're busy with politics when you're smoking weed? :sign_werd:
I dont gather all my neighbourhood chums on the occasional friday night to smoke weed. Im what you call, a Certified Smoker. Only thing I havent done high is pray.
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^ y not
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Cmon man, you cant pray high. Thats the only thing. Ive pissed high, shit high, fucked high, worked out high, write essays high etc etc
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why not.. i mean if u can be high all day.. why cant u pray high?
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why not.. i mean if u can be high all day.. why cant u pray high?
Of course physically i could, but prayer is supposed to be mans communication with God no? And how can u step to God and spit game with him blitted??
And Ive done everything high but that doesnt mean Im high all the time.
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What dumb ass college admitted G Bush?
Hes a Moron.
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harvard.. however that doesnt say the slightest thing about his intelligence since it's no thing if youre from a influential familiy with much money.
with the right money, every nut can go to harvard. just for the poor guys it's very impossible to get there unless they are smart as fuck.