West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Ant on May 17, 2005, 08:08:22 AM
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After hearing trauma-wood fall for the party line and buy into the whole Newsweek failed and embarassed America with shoddy reporting we find out that Newsweek is far from being the first or only organization to report these events. In fact, what we find is once again the Bush Whitehouse is trying to cover up its own faults and failings by pinning the blame on someone else. Just when you think republicans have reached the height of hypocrisy they take it one step further by attempting to hold the media to standards they refuse to impose on themselves. Scott McClellan and the GOP choir wants us to blame newsweek for what has happened in afghanistan while at the same time asking us to turn a blind eye to the intelligence failures of the US govt which have had much more dire consequences. Only a bigotted fool can't see the hypocrisy of hearing the US govt. demand a small news organization does better fact checking than the largest govt. in the world. Of course at the end of the day, we find the Newsweek report had far more corroborating evidence than did Bush's claims of WMD, ties to terrorism, and mushroom clouds.
The reality of this whole thing is that rather than spreading freedom, liberty, and happiness as Bush asserts, the Bush Whitehouse spread hatred of the American population and in doing so weakened our national security, weakened our economy, and weakened our military. The main point is this story is not even news, it has been reported on multiple occasions. Violence exploded in Afghanistan because of a gradually building unrest and disdain for the US, when this story broke again it only fanned flames there were already burning. Anyways, I don't expect you to read all these but you can easily get an idea of the number of times this story has been reported in the past by simply scrolling down.
A list of other news articles that have discussed these allegations prior to the Newsweek story:
August 5, 2004
The Independent (London)
In the report, released in New York, Asif Iqbal, Rhuhel Ahmed and Shafiq Rasul - the so-called Tipton Three - said one inmate was threatened after being shown a video in which hooded inmates were forced to sodomise each other. Guards allegedly threw prisoners' Korans into toilets, while others were injected with drugs, it was claimed.
August 5, 2004
Daily News (New York) | Byline: By James Gordon Meek and Derek Rose.
They say that rats and scorpions had free run of their sweltering cages, loud rock music was used to drown out the sound of prayers, and sleep deprivation was common.
"They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet and generally disrespect it," Asif Iqbal wrote.
[...]
Pentagon spokesman Michael Shavers said the military "operates a professional detention facility at Guantanamo" and does not condone abuse of detainees.
January 9, 2005
Sunday | FINAL EDITION | HEADLINE: Nightmare of Guantanamo.... U.S. prison camp in Cuba has become legal black hole, reporter says BYLINE: John Freeman Special to The Denver Post
"They pepper sprayed me in the face, and I started vomiting; in all I must have brought up five cupfuls. They pinned me down and attacked me, poking their fingers in my eyes, and forced my head into the toilet pan and flushed. They tied me up like a beast and then they were kneeling on me, kicking and punching. Finally they dragged me out of my cell in chains ... and shaved my beard, my hair, my eyebrows."
[...]
And earlier this year, that process finally began. In March, the government released five British men from Guantanamo after nearly three years. They had been captured in Afghanistan, where they had gone to offer humanitarian aid. Rose interviewed them that same month, two months before the allegations of Abu Ghraib first surfaced, and yet they described a period of captivity eerily similar to that of the Iraqis in Abu Ghraib.
In August Mr Ahmed, Mr Rasul and Mr Iqbal issued a 115-page dossier accusing the US of abuse, including allegations that they were beaten and had their Korans thrown into toilets.*
(*Also published in The Hartford Courant (Connecticut), January 16, 2005.)
January 9, 2003
The New York Times | Late Edition - Final | SECTION: Section A; Column 2; Foreign Desk; Pg. 14 | THREATS AND RESPONSES: TERROR; Hate of the West Finds Fertile Soil in Yemen. But Does Al Qaeda? By Ian Fisher | DATELINE: SANA, Yemen, Jan. 8
Investigators know the basic facts: In this poor and isolated nation with no lack of extremists, a young preacher named Ahmed Ali Jarallah assembled a small cell of militants to strike the enemies of Islam in Yemen. Two years ago, he read off a hate list in a speech at a mosque here, singling out specifically a hospital run by American Baptists.
"In Jibla, there is the Baptist hospital, which is the source of Christian activities in the province," Mr. Jarallah said. Muslims converted to Christianity at this hospital, he charged, and even "stuff the Holy Koran into toilets of mosques."
On Dec. 28, anger went into action: Mr. Jarallah himself assassinated a leading secular politician, Jarallah Omar, according to the police. Two days later, one of Mr. Jarallah's followers, Abed Abdel Razzak Kamel, is said to have killed three Americans in the hospital, which provided medical care in the southern town of Jibla for 35 years.
March 26, 2003
The Washington Post | Final Edition | SECTION: A SECTION; Pg. A12 HEADLINE: Returning Afghans Talk of Guantanamo; Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment | BYLINE: Marc Kaufman and April Witt, Washington Post Staff Writers
The men, the largest single group of Afghans to be released after months of detainment at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, gave varying accounts of how American forces treated them during interrogation and detainment. Some displayed medical records showing extensive care by American military doctors, while others complained that American soldiers insulted Islam by sitting on the Koran or dumping their sacred text into a toilet to taunt them.
[...]
Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet.
August 4, 2004
CNN.com | SECTION: LAW | HEADLINE: British men report abuse from Guantanamo BYLINE: By Jonathan Wald CNN
DATELINE: NEW YORK
U.S. soldiers "would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet, and generally disrespect it," Iqbal said.
June 28, 2004
Financial Times Information | Global News Wire - Asia Africa Intelligence Wire | InfoProd | Reprinted with the permission of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty
One of the men, Timur Ishmuratov of Tatarstan, told ORT on 24 June -- prior to the release -- that he had been captured by Northern Alliance forces shortly after the beginning of the U.S. military action in Afghanistan and "sold" to the Americans for $ 3,000-$ 5,000. Former prisoner Airat Vakhitov told ORT about alleged mistreatment while he was at Guantanamo. "They tore the Koran to pieces in front of us, threw it into the toilet," Vakhitov said. "When people were praying, they forced their way in and put their feet on people's heads and beat them."
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LMAO!!!
So now you're quoting people who have made it their life's purpose to destroy America?
HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Newsweek retracts Quran story (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/17/newsweek.quran/index.html)
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It's bizzare as hell to me that you turn this into a political debate when missing the entire issue.
Flushing a book down a toilet is not grounds for murder.
It's even stranger to me that the news outfit that printed the story retracted it, but somehow, in your blind hate, you just want it to be true!
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http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/18/woodward.book/
Lights down, you up and die ;D
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It's bizzare as hell to me that you turn this into a political debate when missing the entire issue.
Flushing a book down a toilet is not grounds for murder.
It's even stranger to me that the news outfit that printed the story retracted it, but somehow, in your blind hate, you just want it to be true!
if u believe that retraction your a bigger fool than i thaught! of course they were gonna retract it after the reaction it caused in the middle east I would be HUGELY suprised if this story was not true. Of course Bush will deny it too, just like he will deny torture, lying etc. its standard practise, because if he didn't the reaction would be a whole lot worse THIS IS ALL CALLED DAMAGE CONTROL YOU FUCKING ZOMBIE
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if u believe that retraction your a bigger fool than i thaught! of course they were gonna retract it after the reaction it caused in the middle east I would be HUGELY suprised if this story was not true. Of course Bush will deny it too, just like he will deny torture, lying etc. its standard practise, because if he didn't the reaction would be a whole lot worse THIS IS ALL CALLED DAMAGE CONTROL YOU FUCKING ZOMBIE
thaught? suprised? practise?
Yeah. I'm the fool.
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if u believe that retraction your a bigger fool than i thaught! of course they were gonna retract it after the reaction it caused in the middle east I would be HUGELY suprised if this story was not true. Of course Bush will deny it too, just like he will deny torture, lying etc. its standard practise, because if he didn't the reaction would be a whole lot worse THIS IS ALL CALLED DAMAGE CONTROL YOU FUCKING ZOMBIE
thaught? suprised? practise?
Yeah. I'm the fool.
i thought we had put this to rest I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT SPELLING U COCK SUCKER THIS IS A INFORMAL FORUM, NOT WORK, I'M NOT BEING ASSESSED ITS ABOUT DISCUSSING ISSUES.
This is a classic republican ploy when you have no argument or anything to add to the discussion, try and discredit the opposition rather than sticking to the actual issue.
but you are right you are the fool!
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i thought we had put this to rest I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT SPELLING U COCK SUCKER THIS IS A INFORMAL FORUM, NOT WORK, I'M NOT BEING ASSESSED ITS ABOUT DISCUSSING ISSUES.
This is a classic republican ploy when you have no argument or anything to add to the discussion, try and discredit the opposition rather than sticking to the actual issue.
but you are right you are the fool!
Classic republican ploy?
How am I supposed to discuss issues with somebody who can't put together a coherent sentence?
You can't spell, but somehow you think you're smart enough to find a case of governmental censorship that nobody else has! Keep up the work Sherlock!
Newsweek retracted the story. The only damage control going on is Newsweek trying to save its reputation because they printed a false story.
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i thought we had put this to rest I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK ABOUT SPELLING U COCK SUCKER THIS IS A INFORMAL FORUM, NOT WORK, I'M NOT BEING ASSESSED ITS ABOUT DISCUSSING ISSUES.
This is a classic republican ploy when you have no argument or anything to add to the discussion, try and discredit the opposition rather than sticking to the actual issue.
but you are right you are the fool!
Classic republican ploy?
How am I supposed to discuss issues with somebody who can't put together a coherent sentence?
You can't spell, but somehow you think you're smart enough to find a case of governmental censorship that nobody else has! Keep up the work Sherlock!
Newsweek retracted the story. The only damage control going on is Newsweek trying to save its reputation because they printed a false story.
maybe it wasn't gramatically correct and the spelling wasn't great but hey my post never are, this is old ground your not going to get me to make an effort just to impress you. you are no better than me, your points are no more valid than mine because they maybe constructed in the queens english (well american bastardised english). if you couldn't understand what i said in my origional post i suggest you go back to school.
The bush administration was very critical of newsweek, if you don't believe political pressure (direct or indirect) led to the retraction then you really are nieve....if you want me to explain it in simpler terms and go through the chain of events i'll be happy to do that for you.
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Either way you look at it, the story being true or not, people were murdered over a fucking book. Yeah, so US troops were flushing pages of the Quaran down the toilet? At least they aren't driving cars full of explosives into the middle of a crowd, killing their own people. I mean, some of yall act like tearing pages out of a book is the worst thing ever. They are trying to interagate people who murder.
And what would happen if they captured a US troop? Give them hot tea and a bath? Fuck no. They would kill them.
And no one here can talk. The troops are over there worried about getting shot or blown up everyday. They aren't over their trying to convert people to christianity, they are over there to bring some stability to a place full of poverty. People just don't understand, the quicker they can get a working government up and a full police force, the US troops will almost all leave. The Iraqis don't want them there, and I'm sure the troops don't want to be there. But no, they can't make this easier.
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It's bizzare as hell to me that you turn this into a political debate when missing the entire issue.
Flushing a book down a toilet is not grounds for murder.
It's even stranger to me that the news outfit that printed the story retracted it, but somehow, in your blind hate, you just want it to be true!
I have no desire to want the story to be true. Your best bet to defeat my argument is to argue against a point I've never made. You claimed the story had no corroborating evidence. You were wrong. Multiple news organizations published similiar story in the past. You implied people were rioting and murdering solely over this story. That is also wrong. This story only fanned flames that were already burning, if you look deep enough you find violence was already occuring and unrest with America had been growing for months. Our own government initially came out and said the Newsweek story was not the underlying cause of the riots... of course when the White House saw a political opportunity to save its own hide it viewed things differently and the riots in Afghanistan rested entirely on the shoulders of Newsweek. You continue to ignore the fact that Newsweek recieved approval from the Pentago to run this story before printing it. Practically every assertion you've made against me is proven wrong by reality so now the best you can do is attempt to counter arguments I've never made.
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You just don't get it do you...
:grumpy:
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You just don't get it do you...
:grumpy:
I think your the one who doesn't get it!
the only valid point you've raised in this thread is 'Flushing a book down a toilet is not grounds for murder.' which no one has even disputed or attempted to argue that it is grounds for murder. but in a country where disrespecting this book carries the death penalty, its not suprising they are more than a bit miffed. and like ant pointed out it just added to volcano of hate already present in region.
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maybe it wasn't gramatically correct and the spelling wasn't great but hey my post never are, this is old ground your not going to get me to make an effort just to impress you. you are no better than me, your points are no more valid than mine because they maybe constructed in the queens english (well american bastardised english). if you couldn't understand what i said in my origional post i suggest you go back to school.
The bush administration was very critical of newsweek, if you don't believe political pressure (direct or indirect) led to the retraction then you really are nieve....if you want me to explain it in simpler terms and go through the chain of events i'll be happy to do that for you.
I am better than you because my points are based on common sense.
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You continue to ignore the fact that Newsweek recieved approval from the Pentago to run this story before printing it.
No they didn't. I saw the interview they had with the Newsweek guy. They said the Pentagon didn't even respond when they sent the article in. They waited like 11 days for an okay, but nothing, so they printed it. I would have done the same if I didn't get any response, but you have to admit, there is a difference.
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maybe it wasn't gramatically correct and the spelling wasn't great but hey my post never are, this is old ground your not going to get me to make an effort just to impress you. you are no better than me, your points are no more valid than mine because they maybe constructed in the queens english (well american bastardised english). if you couldn't understand what i said in my origional post i suggest you go back to school.
The bush administration was very critical of newsweek, if you don't believe political pressure (direct or indirect) led to the retraction then you really are nieve....if you want me to explain it in simpler terms and go through the chain of events i'll be happy to do that for you.
I am better than you because my points are based on common sense.
it only takes an oz of common sense to understand politicians don't always tell the truth and you sometimes have to read between the lines.
also newsweek's retraction wasnt a full and frank retraction, it was a very weak one...
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it only takes an oz of common sense to understand politicians don't always tell the truth and you sometimes have to read between the lines.
also newsweek's retraction wasnt a full and frank retraction, it was a very weak one...
How are you gonna tell me to read between the lines when you struggle to read?!
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You continue to ignore the fact that Newsweek recieved approval from the Pentago to run this story before printing it.
No they didn't. I saw the interview they had with the Newsweek guy. They said the Pentagon didn't even respond when they sent the article in. They waited like 11 days for an okay, but nothing, so they printed it. I would have done the same if I didn't get any response, but you have to admit, there is a difference.
I read they recieved approval, but if that is the case I stand corrected.
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Desecration of Koran Had Been Reported Before
By Carol D. Leonnig
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 18, 2005; Page A12
Newsweek magazine's now-retracted story that a military guard at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, flushed a copy of the Koran down a toilet has sparked angry denunciations by the White House and the Pentagon, which have linked the article to Muslim riots and deaths abroad.
But American and international media have widely reported similar allegations from detainees and others of desecration of the Muslim holy book for more than two years.
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The story has been around for months as I've said multiple times, and still the bigots are arguing what happened in Afghanistan is entirely the fault of Newsweek. Hysterical.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/17/AR2005051701315.html
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Time and time again you tried to pretend I'm arguing about the veracity of this story when that has never been the case.
:eh:
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Reason # 3253 why Englewood will never be Tech
Bitch, its ok to clown posters, insult em, disrespect em, laugh at em etc ONLY IF U CAN REFUTE WHAT THEY SAY
::) this lame runnin around the ring.....get close to Don Rizzle so he can knock ya ass out
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everyone makes mistakes.....bush and fam. have made worse ones
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Either way you look at it, the story being true or not, people were murdered over a fucking book. Yeah, so US troops were flushing pages of the Quaran down the toilet? At least they aren't driving cars full of explosives into the middle of a crowd, killing their own people. I mean, some of yall act like tearing pages out of a book is the worst thing ever. They are trying to interagate people who murder.
And what would happen if they captured a US troop? Give them hot tea and a bath? Fuck no. They would kill them.
And no one here can talk. The troops are over there worried about getting shot or blown up everyday. They aren't over their trying to convert people to christianity, they are over there to bring some stability to a place full of poverty. People just don't understand, the quicker they can get a working government up and a full police force, the US troops will almost all leave. The Iraqis don't want them there, and I'm sure the troops don't want to be there. But no, they can't make this easier.
Yeah, atleast the US Military never kills anybody. And they are actually in Iraq to relieve poverty by stealing all their oil revunue. And the country doesn't have electricity much anymore, but hey, it's all the fault of the insurgents.
Yeah, atleast the US Soldiers aren't killing anybody, right?
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Either way you look at it, the story being true or not, people were murdered over a fucking book. Yeah, so US troops were flushing pages of the Quaran down the toilet? At least they aren't driving cars full of explosives into the middle of a crowd, killing their own people. I mean, some of yall act like tearing pages out of a book is the worst thing ever. They are trying to interagate people who murder.
And what would happen if they captured a US troop? Give them hot tea and a bath? Fuck no. They would kill them.
And no one here can talk. The troops are over there worried about getting shot or blown up everyday. They aren't over their trying to convert people to christianity, they are over there to bring some stability to a place full of poverty. People just don't understand, the quicker they can get a working government up and a full police force, the US troops will almost all leave. The Iraqis don't want them there, and I'm sure the troops don't want to be there. But no, they can't make this easier.
Yeah, atleast the US Military never kills anybody. And they are actually in Iraq to relieve poverty by stealing all their oil revunue. And the country doesn't have electricity much anymore, but hey, it's all the fault of the insurgents.
Yeah, atleast the US Soldiers aren't killing anybody, right?
hey crazy ass cracker. wasn't Sadaam stealing all the oil revanue... oooooh but your muslim ass wasn't complaining about that probably because allah was punishing the iraqis with starvation and sadaam was just doing allah's will
can't you make one post without saying something totally retarded?
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Yeah, atleast the US Military never kills anybody. And they are actually in Iraq to relieve poverty by stealing all their oil revunue. And the country doesn't have electricity much anymore, but hey, it's all the fault of the insurgents.
Yeah, atleast the US Soldiers aren't killing anybody, right?
I'm talking about captured insurgents. No, the American government is walking on eggshells, so they don't kill anyone they have captured. And I'm pretty sure the soldiers don't just fire on anyone standing outside.
You want to talk about the flow of money through Iraq? LOL...The hundreds of thousands of US troops in Iraq don't buy anything? How about the fact that billions of OUR money is going to build new businesses for them? I guess that doesn't count for anything at all. And like Needles said, Saddam was making a mockery out of the Oil For Food program. I guess it's more important to make another 24k life-sized golden elephant than to feed his own countrymen.
And yes, it is the insurgents fault Iraq does not have power, unless of course a power grid went down by itself.
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Either way you look at it, the story being true or not, people were murdered over a fucking book. Yeah, so US troops were flushing pages of the Quaran down the toilet? At least they aren't driving cars full of explosives into the middle of a crowd, killing their own people. I mean, some of yall act like tearing pages out of a book is the worst thing ever. They are trying to interagate people who murder.
And what would happen if they captured a US troop? Give them hot tea and a bath? Fuck no. They would kill them.
And no one here can talk. The troops are over there worried about getting shot or blown up everyday. They aren't over their trying to convert people to christianity, they are over there to bring some stability to a place full of poverty. People just don't understand, the quicker they can get a working government up and a full police force, the US troops will almost all leave. The Iraqis don't want them there, and I'm sure the troops don't want to be there. But no, they can't make this easier.
Yeah, atleast the US Military never kills anybody. And they are actually in Iraq to relieve poverty by stealing all their oil revunue. And the country doesn't have electricity much anymore, but hey, it's all the fault of the insurgents.
Yeah, atleast the US Soldiers aren't killing anybody, right?
hey crazy ass cracker. wasn't Sadaam stealing all the oil revanue... oooooh but your muslim ass wasn't complaining about that probably because allah was punishing the iraqis with starvation and sadaam was just doing allah's will
can't you make one post without saying something totally retarded?
Cracker, what u fail to realize is NO ONE WAS DEFENDING SADDAM. BUT U DUMB HICKS ARE DEFENDING BUSH?!?!?!?
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basically saddam and bush both fucked over iraq in their own ways, however now its been done we can't change that so I hope we can move on, the coalition is there to stay until there is calm, the insurgency only prolongs the occupation and is punishing the ordinary iraqi citizens. but its a game of give and take americans shouldn't be so antagonistic and heavy handed, they should really be looking to follow the british example which although is not perfect (it never will be) I believe we have played a positive role in our effort to rebuild iraq and keep calm.
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basically saddam and bush both fucked over iraq in their own ways, however now its been done we can't change that so I hope we can move on, the coalition is there to stay until there is calm, the insurgency only prolongs the occupation and is punishing the ordinary iraqi citizens. but its a game of give and take americans shouldn't be so antagonistic and heavy handed, they should really be looking to follow the british example which although is not perfect (it never will be) I believe we have played a positive role in our effort to rebuild iraq and keep calm.
You got it backwards, the occupation only prolongs the insurgency, don't get it twisted! Al Sadr is a Shiite Imam and his family was historically oppressed by Saddaam Hussien's regime, and his assesment was just this, "The little serpent is out and the big serpent is in."
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You got it backwards, the occupation only prolongs the insurgency, don't get it twisted! Al Sadr is a Shiite Imam and his family was historically oppressed by Saddaam Hussien's regime, and his assesment was just this, "The little serpent is out and the big serpent is in."
Why do you even try and contribute to any discussion? It makes you look like an even bigger moron.
Remember when you thought these terrorists weren't being paid and you laughed and laughed at my statement? I provided you with proof, and you deleted your post.
Now you're talking like Al Sadr is a legitimate politican.
Let's take a look at the man you've quoted:
Al-Sadr linked to mass killings
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040901-124008-3160r.htm\
Al-Sadr's aide: keep captured female soldiers as slaves
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/5704-iraq-slaves.html
Al-Sadr's men selling heroin
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20041011-123953-3820r.htm
You haven't got a clue what's going on in Iraq, but that’s the least of your worries.
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Cracker, what u fail to realize is NO ONE WAS DEFENDING SADDAM. BUT U DUMB HICKS ARE DEFENDING BUSH?!?!?!?
Who here is defending Bush? I'm defending common sense and decency. Saddam was a crazy asshole. So is Bush, but at least he isn't gassing his own people.
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You got it backwards, the occupation only prolongs the insurgency, don't get it twisted! Al Sadr is a Shiite Imam and his family was historically oppressed by Saddaam Hussien's regime, and his assesment was just this, "The little serpent is out and the big serpent is in."
Why do you even try and contribute to any discussion? It makes you look like an even bigger moron.
Remember when you thought these terrorists weren't being paid and you laughed and laughed at my statement? I provided you with proof, and you deleted your post.
Now you're talking like Al Sadr is a legitimate politican.
Let's take a look at the man you've quoted:
Al-Sadr linked to mass killings
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040901-124008-3160r.htm\
Al-Sadr's aide: keep captured female soldiers as slaves
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/5704-iraq-slaves.html
Al-Sadr's men selling heroin
http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20041011-123953-3820r.htm
You haven't got a clue what's going on in Iraq, but that’s the least of your worries.
In no way do I care to agree with infinite, but lol at the fact that you read the Washington Times. This isn't quite as funny as when you quoted Rush Limbaugh but humorous nonetheless.