West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Ant on November 18, 2004, 02:09:35 PM
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BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- Heroin production is booming in Afghanistan, undermining democracy and putting money in the coffers of terrorists, according to a U.N. report Thursday that called on U.S. and NATO-led forces get more involved in fighting drug traffickers.
``Fighting narcotics is equivalent to fighting terrorism,'' said Antonio Maria Costa, executive director of the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime. ``It would be an historical error to abandon Afghanistan to opium, right after we reclaimed it from the Taliban and al-Qaida.''
This year's cultivation was up by nearly two-thirds, it found. Bad weather and disease kept production from setting a record, although Afghanistan still accounted for 87 percent of the world supply, up from 76 percent in 2003.
Opium is the ``main engine of economic growth and the strongest bond among previously quarrelsome peoples,'' the report said. It valued the trade at $2.8 billion, or more than 60 percent of Afghanistan's 2003 gross domestic product.
Most is smuggled across the eastern border with Pakistan, where Taliban and al-Qaida remnants demand transit and protection fees, Costa told reporters.
Full Story at:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/international/AP-UN-Afghanistan-Opium.html?hp&ex=1100840400&en=6e9c71206a67b054&ei=5094&partner=homepage
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So are you trying to imply this is Bush' fault?
Columbia produces cocaine. There is another tidbit.
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Afghanistan has always been the #1 opium producer in the world. The people depend on that shit. The article even states that it accounts for about 60% of the GDP, which is less than $5 billion. Everyone is getting a piece of the pie.
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Poppy production was banned under the Taliban
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^^^ as techniec mentioned, opium production under the Taliban was neglegible, they outright banned it, and aggressively put an end to poppy cultivation. If you don't believe me, you can do a little research and find out this is true for youself.
This actually is the fault of the Bush Administration without question. Prior to the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan there was almost no opium production. Today Afghan supplies 87% of the world's opium. Just last year it supplied 76%, the Bush administration claims we have stablized the country, all we've done is take it out of the spotlight and pretend like things are better now. Now during the past year things have gotten even worse. Opium production is tied to terrorism, al-queda and other terrorist organizations fund themselves through the drug trade. But because the Bush Admin never provided Afghanistan with enough troops to stablize the country they allowed the drug lords to take over.
As I said, if anyone disagrees with the fact that this is the fault of Bush and co. refute one simple fact. Prior to the US invasion there was almost no opium production coming out of Afghanistan. In just 2 years, Afghanistan produces 87% of the world's opium.
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Another example of you all manipulating the news.
1- President Hamid Karzai's banned opium too. Karzai has little power outside Kabul, and any massive crackdown could erode his power further unless there is international support and massive subsidies to farmers to grow alternate crops. So THEY NEED AN INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT, not Bush's support.
2- Antonio Maria Costa didnt blame USA. He said: "It could be brought under control with a good dose of law enforcement, which at the moment is lacking," so he's focusing on the lacking of a law enforcement, not on the US "invasion".
3- It's wrong that USA takes his heroin from Afghanistan. Actually 90% of British heroin comes from Afghanistan, while just 8% of this heroin is coming into the United States. Most U.S. heroin is sourced from Colombia.
4- Under the Taliban government, Afghanistan became the world's largest source of illicit opium, as Kabul taxed the illicit crop to pay for an infrastructure and used it to help protect Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, sowing the seeds for more drugs and terror. When the Taliban banned production in 2001, street prices -- and stockpiling -- skyrocketed, as production dropped to a record low 185 tonnes. That caused a huge price increase, from an average of $30 a kilo in 2000 to $700 in 2001, prompting massive resumption of cultivation in 2002.
5- Costa praised Karzai's ban on opium cultivation and trafficking; the establishment of the national Counter-Narcotic Directorate; the adoption of the 10-year National Drug Control Strategy; and the new drug control law. Other than that, remember Afghanistan is not a USA invaded territory, so they have their rules. Costa is talking to them, not to USA.
If you dont believe me, just read it from the CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/central/10/29/afghan.opium/
Now stop bullshiting please.
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Explain to me how I am bullshitting when I posted an article from the NY Times? Just because you read one little article on CNN now your the expert?
Please tell me why your sources are always more credible than mine? You have no arguments, thats why you whine that I keep posting articles that attack Bush. (see your other thread). Now that you join the whiners, that would rather character attack than counter argue, there is no reason for me to take you seriously. Before you had my respect and I would have given you a reasonable argument. Now your bein as childish as everyone else. Oh no more information that makes bush look bad, lets just character attack.
The fact is, you quoted one article from CNN, big deal. I've quoted articles from a range of credible sources. You quote CNN as if its gospel, which is a little better than your fellow Bush supporters who frequenly quote conservative blogs, conservative newspapers, and even Rush Limbaugh.
If my posts offend you, don't read them. If you disagree with them, please counter argue. But don't quote one source as the definitive anwser. The reason I disagree with Bush is because a range of people disagree with him, and you have nothing better to say than to call me a sore loser. Asshole I'm not a democrat, I'm a regular citizen that is disturbed by the actions of this administration and their consquences for America.
You want to say I'm manipulating the news? All you did was copy and paste from CNN? Look at your arguements:
1. Hamid Karzi banned opium too, but Karzai has little power outside of Kabul. Ok, so if I say I ban killing in the US, but i have no power to actually enforce it, what the hell does it matter? Then they say in the article "unless there is international support" and you take it as objective evidence that THEY NEED INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT, when really you were quoting the opinion of a CNN journalist. Wow someone writes "here is what they should do" in a newspaper, and all of a sudden that should be our policy?
2. Then you say, Antonio Costa didn't blame the USA, but so what? He didn't say it wasn't our fault either. So what does that argument prove. And again, Antonio Costa is one individual. OTher people may blame the US. If I quoted someone who blamed the US would his opinion matter to you? No probably not.
3. I never said the US takes heroin from Afghan. I said Afghan supplies 87% of the world's opium according to a UN report. So pt. three doesn't even matter.
4. In the same bullet point you say Afghanistan supplied a ton of opium and the taliban banned opium production causing the supply to dwindle and prices to increase. Then you say cultivation began again in 2002, which was after the US invasion. Again, i don't see how this proves me wrong at all.
5. Your just quoting opinions again, and I never said Costa blamed the USA for any of this. I said the fact of the matter is Afghanistan was not producing much opium before the US invasion because the taliban banned it. Then you said, the taliban banned opium and opium production decreaed, then you said that opium increased again in 2002.
Your not even from my country, so stop gettin so worked up over criticism of the US President.
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So what's your reply to my post? "Your not even from my country, so stop gettin so worked up over criticism of the US President"? Ok, diss him and believe in your world of cartoons where, let me quote you, "Prior to the US invasion there was almost no opium production coming out of Afghanistan. In just 2 years, Afghanistan produces 87% of the world's opium". Yeah, right.. ::)
Do yourself a favor and read the full relationship from the UNODC (if you dont know, it's the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime) done by mister Costas himself. I've done it. You should. I quoted CNN cause it's "quicker" than quoting a 59-pages-document. But hey, you really should read the whole thing! And you should stop bullshiting.
Here.
http://www.unodc.org/unodc/search.html?scope=afghanistan+opium&x=0&y=0
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you really should read the rest of my thread instead of quoting the last line as if it was my only argument. I didn't say don't argue with me, I saiid you take it way to serious for someone that doesn't even live in this country. Its not live GWB has your back, you don't have to blindly defend him like everyone else on here does. And either way, you put yourself in a catch 22. By saying the analysis you read is credible puts you in a situation where you either have to say:
1) then the overwhelming wealth of analysis criticizing bush is also credible
or
2) i only listen to information that tends to agree with my side.
now... i haven't read that whole document yet, but the argument you placed earlier was poor at best. I countered it, and you choose to pretend as if my whole argument depended on one line.
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Man in that line you are blaming Bush for something doesnt depend from him.
And you are "using" a document by UNODC to "justify" it.
First, it's wrong with the Talibans Afghanistan didnt produce opium. Hella wrong.
Second, that document doesnt blame Bush or USA, but praise Afghanistan leader.
They just say there should be a better system of law to "control" opium.
Other than that, Afghanistan now is a free nation.
Not in the hands of USA. USA can't control it no more.
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Other than that, Afghanistan now is a free nation.
Not in the hands of USA. USA can't control it no more.
You have a lot to learn LOL
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its not the first time the american government has made money from drugs so it wouldn't suprise me if they have been skimming money from somewhere
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Other than that, Afghanistan now is a free nation.
Not in the hands of USA. USA can't control it no more.
You have a lot to learn LOL
Well i know their leader is "a puppet", but i mean they can only make pressure on him to do something.
They cant do things directly in Afghanistan no more.
Afghanistan needs to grow as a Nation, with their mistakes and with their problems.
This one of opium is a problem they have to face.
With the help of everybody, not only USA.
Personally i dont wanna see Americans in Afghanistan no more.
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its not the first time the american government has made money from drugs so it wouldn't suprise me if they have been skimming money from somewhere
Like i wrote, only 8% of the total heroin produced in Afghanistan goes to USA (they buy it from Colombia).
Guess what? 90% of that heroin goes to England. LOL.
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Personally i dont wanna see Americans in Afghanistan no more.
America can't pull out of Afghanistan. That's the huge mistake the U.S. made after the Cold War. Afghan militias were supplied with weapons and money to fight the Soviets, and after they defeated those fuckers, the U.S. didn't do anything as far as helping rebuild the nation goes. So what we had was a country with no real leadership; dozens of different tribes and militias running around with weapons that we had earlier supplied them with, killing each other; all sorts of different groups fighting for power, and eventually leading to the Taliban taking over. It became a haven for terrorists, and you know the rest. I think if it was up to Reagan, things would've been different, but unfortunately, we had the idiot Bush Sr. take over by then.
Basically, my point is that we can't repeat that mistake. Right now Hamid Karzai isn't even safe in his own fuckin' country. Imagine being the president of a nation and having to fear traveling to different parts of the country. He was on his way to make a speech at a school a few months ago, and his helicopter was almost hit by a missile. He had to go back to the capital. That's a huge embarassment for a leader to go and retreat to safety in his own country. Afghanistan is nowhere near the status of an independent nation ready to handle everything on its own.
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its not the first time the american government has made money from drugs so it wouldn't suprise me if they have been skimming money from somewhere
Like i wrote, only 8% of the total heroin produced in Afghanistan goes to USA (they buy it from Colombia).
Guess what? 90% of that heroin goes to England. LOL.
doesn't stop them from making money from it, when america has profited from drugs in the past they weren't importing them into america
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America can't pull out of Afghanistan. That's the huge mistake the U.S. made after the Cold War. Afghan militias were supplied with weapons and money to fight the Soviets, and after they defeated those fuckers, the U.S. didn't do anything as far as helping rebuild the nation goes.
Yeah, the same shit done in Iraq after the Desert Storm, yeah. And let me add another thing, same thing done by UN in the ex-Jugoslavia. We'll hear about Jugoslavia again, soon. I live in Italy, just in front of them. Things aint quiet there right now. Expecially with Albania..
So what we had was a country with no real leadership; dozens of different tribes and militias running around with weapons that we had earlier supplied them with, killing each other; all sorts of different groups fighting for power, and eventually leading to the Taliban taking over. It became a haven for terrorists, and you know the rest. I think if it was up to Reagan, things would've been different, but unfortunately, we had the idiot Bush Sr. take over by then.
I dont know it, man. I mean it always happens like that. I've never seen things done 100% correct after a war. Maybe Reagan was better, but.. war = $$$$. That's it.
Basically, my point is that we can't repeat that mistake. Right now Hamid Karzai isn't even safe in his own fuckin' country. Imagine being the president of a nation and having to fear traveling to different parts of the country. He was on his way to make a speech at a school a few months ago, and his helicopter was almost hit by a missile. He had to go back to the capital. That's a huge embarassment for a leader to go and retreat to safety in his own country. Afghanistan is nowhere near the status of an independent nation ready to handle everything on its own.
In the last days they've killed 2 bodyguards of Abu Mazen... so shit is out of control there too! Sad shit.
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its not the first time the american government has made money from drugs so it wouldn't suprise me if they have been skimming money from somewhere
Like i wrote, only 8% of the total heroin produced in Afghanistan goes to USA (they buy it from Colombia).
Guess what? 90% of that heroin goes to England. LOL.
doesn't stop them from making money from it, when america has profited from drugs in the past they weren't importing them into america
C'mon man, shit is deeper. Jamal said something interesting in the previous posts. It's not that they are producing shit legally. Opium is banned. But nobody can control the nation right now, so shit is getting out of control. It's not that USA is requesting it or buying it. Like i told you, English are. The problem is deeper that just "USA is making a profit from it".
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The whole fuckin world is making profit off that opium. I think over 90% of Europe's heroin comes from Afghan opium.
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Damn, I never knew Bush was a heroin addict. We need to vote this guy the fuck out of office. Man, in 2008, I swear, I am *NOT voting for Bush!!!!
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Damn, I never knew Bush was a heroin addict. We need to vote this guy the fuck out of office. Man, in 2008, I swear, I am *NOT voting for Bush!!!!
What the fuck does that have anything to do with this thread, you hillbilly, chickenhawk, cracker ass motherfucker.
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It's all Bush's fault!!!! He must be a heroin addict!!!!! Vote him out in 08!!!!!
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It's all Bush's fault!!!! He must be a heroin addict!!!!! Vote him out in 08!!!!!
You're an idiot
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It's all Bush's fault!!!! He must be a heroin addict!!!!! Vote him out in 08!!!!!
Bush buys heroin and supports terrorism by buying it.
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Damn, I never knew Bush was a heroin addict. We need to vote this guy the fuck out of office. Man, in 2008, I swear, I am *NOT voting for Bush!!!!
What the fuck does that have anything to do with this thread, you hillbilly, chickenhawk, cracker ass motherfucker.
LOL. exactly what i was thinking.
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Explain to me how I am bullshitting when I posted an article from the NY Times?
It should be called the "Liberal Times" for Liberal Partisan
Anyways who gives a fuck if Afghanistan produces "87%" of the Worlds Opium. They always have been a big supplier, its not something new just because Bush sent troops their to kill Taliban and al-Qaeda. Something should be don't about this but its not Bush's fault.
How come you don't make a thread about how Colombia
is the Worlds largest Cocaine producer/supplier.