West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: R-Tistic on October 12, 2004, 12:14:52 AM
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Today, me and my homeboy from New York had a pretty heated arguement about many different things. Here are some of what we were debatin:
-He says that in order for a song to get on radio a lot and become a hit, it has to be good, whether I like it or not, and that it doesn't become a hit because the radio stations play it over and over...I stressed that people like what they hear, and that many songs become hits that aren't even good songs, but the companies will pay off the record stations to play the songs and "Make" it a hit
-He says that Crooked I might be a better rapper than Game, but it doesn't matter because he doesn't have the same appeal that Game has. I said that if Crooked was put into the exact same position for marketing and for droppin an album under Dre like Game, he would be just as big. But he says that Game has appeal that Crooked I, and most other west coast rappers don't have.
-He said that the west coast appeal was big in the 90s, but people got tired of it, and most rappers in LA continued to try and blow up with that same gangsta image. He agreed that the west coast may have rappers who are much better than those who are commercially successful, but that they lack the appeal for any record company to have the initiative to promote them and expect to sell.
-I said that the west coast fell off the scene for many reasons other than Pac. But I said that if the big record companies wanted to take a west coast artist and promote them and make them blow up, it was definitely possible, regardless of how good they are, and Guerilla Black is proof of that. He said that is not the case, and that most west coast rappers just don't have the appeal that it takes to sell to people outside the west.
-The arguement started because he said Suga Free sucked, and that he only appeals to LA people. I said that he only feels this way because he was never exposed to Suga Free, and that people basically like what they grow up listenin to. I also said that DJ Quik could definitely be as popular worldwide as Dre if he had been marketed right, but that Quik is too musical and talented and not worried about his image for any record company to take the chance on promotin him.
We got into other things, but those were the main points. My main question for you all is, do you feel that west coast rappers lack some sort of appeal, and that it is the reason that the west coast fell off? I know that many of us are always pissed at the companies for not givin us a chance, and I know that many people such as those in NY are closeminded. But in a way, he opened my eyes to seein that maybe some companies and the industry just don't see west coast artists sellin because of whatever image they have.
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I don't think they lack appeal at all. There are tons of dudes over here that could blow up, but none of 'em get the proper promotion.
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yeah cuzzz. like in that new jayo video all he say is "nigga nigga nigga" and repeats the same old daz diss, nothin unique. you know come up with new shit homie its supposed to be craccin
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i do agree on one point, that westcoast artists need to stop tryin to blow up off the same image they used in the 90s. artists need to come with somethin fresh & new. you gotta distinguish yourself from the guy down the road
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GO GET THAT NEW FEDERATION "THE ALBUM" OR THAT NEW FRONTLINE "WHO R U" DROPPIN 2DAY IN STORES... DATS IF URE LOOKIN 4 APPEAL !!!!!!!
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I'm afraid I don't exactly understand what you mean...do you mean 'appeal' in terms of 'looks', or in terms of 'music'?
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I'm afraid I don't exactly understand what you mean...do you mean 'appeal' in terms of 'looks', or in terms of 'music'?
Both...he was sayin that Game has the appeal because he has an east coast flow, which means he appeals music wise, but he also has the image that sells in the rap game.
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i think some of the more humorous west coast rappers like tash, bad azz, sly boogy, etc. have a lot of charisma and would have mainstream appeal had they had enough exposure. but there are still west artists that have no appeal
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radio and tv play a huge factor in it. I mean how many west coast videos do u c on mtv and how many westcoast tracks r played on hot 97.
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I'm afraid I don't exactly understand what you mean...do you mean 'appeal' in terms of 'looks', or in terms of 'music'?
Both...he was sayin that Game has the appeal because he has an east coast flow, which means he appeals music wise, but he also has the image that sells in the rap game.
Game's image is all about gangsta, I thought your homie said the west needs to find something new ? pretty contradicting.
Many big rappers blew up with that image, look at 50, Jada, DMX,..
A fundamental thing to have if you want to blow is a significant style, even if it's just based on your voice. Em, 50, Snoop, DMX, Xzibit, Nelly, Busta, Chingy, Jada, Ja and so on have that. A gifted emcee like Planet Asia would be extremely lucky to ever blow, lyrical ability doesn't help you much when it comes to the masses and his style isn't special enough. It could be wack, bitten or whatever long as it makes people recognize you. Also the beats have to appeal to the audience, the faster the better cause many people won't give something new enough of a chance to grow on them.. when the masses aren't used to the (or at least some kinds of) west coast sounds it'll be hard for a single artist to have them like it.
I'm sure there are enough west rappers with a outstanding style which could help them blow.. Christbearer for example, since I'm listeing to him right now, would have a good chance with his style, or Young Droop, even Lynch long as he doesn't spit horrorcore lyrics, Sick Jacken, Chali2na (he could be HUGE, well jurassic five is known n shit but I'm talkin bout the charts)
East cats don't have more appeal than west cats, they just have the currently more popular appeal but the reason for that is rather the productions, not even the rappers. You see Xzibit didn't have a problem to blow, neither will Game since Dre's production style is one of the few popular west production styles. The combination of an appealing production style + a significant (but not too hardcore) rap style is what it takes. If you have that and the required airplay you have a good chance. The lyrical content and skills and even the image aren't anywhere close to as important .
Game's style isn't that significant, he's by far not one of the rappers with the best chances to blow rapping wise, but he has the production and, thanks to his affiliation, also the airplay.
If the radio stations would keep playing that west coast shit the audience would, as you said, automatically start liking it, some cause they realize the quality, some cause they like what they hear alot. Once established (by being played alot, regardless of whether the masses like it in the beginning) west artists would have the same chance to sell much as east artists and whoever do, maybe even more since they're fresher (to the masses who only recently got to really know their style)
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Gangsta rap is loosing it's appeal. There's nothing else new to talk about.
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i think pac said it best: "you gotta make music for the bitches cuz the niggas want what the bitches want"
i grew up on the west coast and always had that same question about NY. why the hell don't they play our shit? after moving to NY shortly over a year ago, i gotta say, (and hate to admit it), but i understand why. Your homie is right - very few westcoast rappers have mass appeal. new york is just a crazy place, and it's just the way of life that people are attracted to. i think it has little to do with record companies.....
i don't know...i hate admitting it but NY has so much more style than most cities in the west. and i think that has mostly to do with the geographical aspect of NY - millions of people concentrated in such a small are makes for a much interesting place than millions of people spread out across hundreds of miles....
this is just what i've observed since living in NY for the past year, and i've gained a newfound respect for NY rap music
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well gangsta rap is losing the appeal, but gangsta shit still goes on in the streets, and somebody needs to talk about it, instead of sidestepping the real issues...... running out of christal or not being able to get the right color benz you want is not real problems, and the majority of people, even in the suburbs, cant realte to that shit......
would you rather see a gangster movie or a baller baller movie......plus the eastcoast HATES HATES HATES! we cant get no knid of exposure out there cuz the rappers, the deejays and especially the magazines arent willing to play it....but 50 cent can talk about shootin niggas but its ok bcuz he "cute" ;D....so fuck that, who cares if the westcoast rappers that deserve it dont make the mainstream, the real fans like us are still gonna love them, and hopefully support them
SUPPORT THE WEST COAST!!!!!!!
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when the fuck are you guys going to get it through your head:
MUSIC IS STRICTLY A BUSINESS!
It's not the same as before. Talent does not equal sucess, while it can, that is one of the smallest factors.
People in charge of major labels, are not in charge of these labels because they love music, they are there because they love money. Rap, as far as mainstream, sales, popularity goes, is dead. There is not a REAL rapper that has sold in years. HIP-POP sells these days, rap doesn't. rap is dead. just like disco is dead. just like heavy metal is dead. Ain't no record exec gonna use his millions of dollars to promote a rapper, because he knows that its a losing deal. Snoop dogg don't make rap no more, he makes pop music. Jay-Z's music is pop, he says so himself, he says he is a pop star.
So, to answer your question, yes, the west lacks appeal. that is because nearly every rapper on the westcoast is exactly that, a rapper, not a pop star.
Consumers don't give a fuck about lyrics, or flow. They like a beat they can bob their head to and dance to, a catchy chorus, and thats it. Crooked I will never blow up. The only possible way he will is either:
A: somebody with millions, of dollars decides to promote the hell out of him like someone like jay z, or 50 cent. but that won't happen because like I said before its a losing deal for the backer with cash.
B: crook completely changes his entire style, and basically sells out. In this case (which I never see him doing) pretty much everyone who is a crooked I fan now, will not like his music, except for the diehard fans, who just love a rapper due to his name alone IE snoop dogg, and anyone else in the dogg pound.
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Planet Asia can crossover, but nobody supports him. It's the fans on the West that kill the area. They're TOO concerned with the newest Snoop song, the latest rumors on Dre's album that won't come out for another 12 years, too concerned with old ass rappers.
Give these emcees a shot and the West will have appeal again:
Balance
Locksmith & Left (Frontline)
Trenseta
Planet Asia
Self Scientific
San Quinn
Federation
These are ALL rappers who bring a whole different image to the West, with a VERY strong possibility of appealing to people OUTSIDE of the West. WE as fans, need to support them.
Fuck Snoop Dogg, fuck Dre, fuck Cube, fuck Dub C, Mack 10, Warren G, Nate Dogg, Kurupt, etc. Hell, fuck Too Short and even E-40, all these old ass rappers need to move aside and let the new cats take over.
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San Quinn
you think he could blow up outside the west. I have his first album or should say i had it b/c i eventually traded it in. But i wasnt feeling his stuff at all. Thats just me, but i cant see him blowing up in ny. even if he was from ny i just couldnt see him really blowing up.
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You gotta hear his new album. It's not just for the Bay, like his first album was. Plus, Quinncy was getting some good attention for a while. i don't know if you remember that show with Stick Fingaz, it was about the Hip Hop industry. But, anyway, the "Rapper" on the show would "Rap" and the songs he would "rap" were written and performed by San Quinn. He had enough appeal to get on that show, the show just sucked though.
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Planet Asia can crossover, but nobody supports him. It's the fans on the West that kill the area. They're TOO concerned with the newest Snoop song, the latest rumors on Dre's album that won't come out for another 12 years, too concerned with old ass rappers.
Give these emcees a shot and the West will have appeal again:
Balance
Locksmith & Left (Frontline)
Trenseta
Planet Asia
Self Scientific
San Quinn
Federation
These are ALL rappers who bring a whole different image to the West, with a VERY strong possibility of appealing to people OUTSIDE of the West. WE as fans, need to support them.
Fuck Snoop Dogg, fuck Dre, fuck Cube, fuck Dub C, Mack 10, Warren G, Nate Dogg, Kurupt, etc. Hell, fuck Too Short and even E-40, all these old ass rappers need to move aside and let the new cats take over.
REAL MUTHAFUCIN TALK !!!! ADD ARSEN N CANE TO THE LIST BOYEEEE....
but naw, i dunno about old cats stepping aside completely, it's a business, they still got money 2 make....what needs 2 step aside is the typical west coast fan mentality....most of these so called fans are stuck in 93....and the younger ones juss dunno any better, MTV, BET & CLEAR CHANNEL got em exactly where they want them....now again, this isn't all fans, juss the typical 80% which make up most of the success U see lame artists these days achieve. Ultimately like SGV said, our fans are gonna kills us. It's not that the majors don't support the West Coast (well, partially yes it is), but in the big picture it's because of the fact that we ain't selling in OUR areas. In New York, they support their own 2 the fullest, buy all the mixtapes....in the South, they on each other's nuts, Lil Flip sold 100,000 in a real short amount of time with his old independent shit....Ghetto Gold....ofcourse the majors are gonna be looking at him....U have to make noise in your area and get that locked down in order to cross over (dats not always the case if you're lucky n get discovered, but nowadays hip hop is on corporate capitalistic billion dollar level) .... @ TOM....San Quinn's 1st album if U listen to now is not up to par 2 what would be considered as bangin....for some it is, cuzz they grew up on it....but his shit nowadays has cross over appeal 4 sho, the production, flows, everything....it's set to go....but he ain't doin Lil Flip 100,000 numbers because of our fans, he pushin like 30-40 thousand if that....the next one entitled "The Rock" is gonna have BETTER distribution and prolly sell more, but it still won't be MAJOR....it all comes down 2 ure home turf mane, capture that and u will reach the American Dream....there's thousands trying, get in where u fit in....but don't make yur expectations too high because with these fans, the over saturation, the media, and ignorance there's barely any chance left....
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Everything he just said is absolutely right. Artists themselves will even tell that shit. One bay area rapper whose name I don't remember said it on the radio one day. He said the only way they'll make it big is if people support them. If was major label looking for talent I wouldn't sign him either if he couldn't move units in his own hood.
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really I think the east who has all the fuckin record labels decided to get Monopoly on the westcoast. They didnt want to see us shine no more. Most of these rappers have jacked the west's style perfect example of a new rapper outside of the westocoast chingy. I think if the westcoast's production just sounds more polished cuz some of this shit sounds like they made it out of there bedroom. Most of those fuckers arent talkin about anything new in new york its the same ol shit and they are tellin us quit the gangsta image. For a long time they told the west couldnt rhyme. We could fuck up most of those fuckers over there.
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really I think the east who has all the fuckin record labels decided to get Monopoly on the westcoast. They didnt want to see us shine no more. Most of these rappers have jacked the west's style perfect example of a new rapper outside of the westocoast chingy. I think if the westcoast's production just sounds more polished cuz some of this shit sounds like they made it out of there bedroom. Most of those fuckers arent talkin about anything new in new york its the same ol shit and they are tellin us quit the gangsta image. For a long time they told the west couldnt rhyme. We could fuck up most of those fuckers over there.
i dont think that's it at all. people out here in NY got mad love for the west, they just don't like the style. like common said 'if i don't like it, i don't like it, that don't mean that i'm hatin'
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when the fuck are you guys going to get it through your head:
MUSIC IS STRICTLY A BUSINESS![/b]
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really I think the east who has all the fuckin record labels decided to get Monopoly on the westcoast. They didnt want to see us shine no more. Most of these rappers have jacked the west's style perfect example of a new rapper outside of the westocoast chingy. I think if the westcoast's production just sounds more polished cuz some of this shit sounds like they made it out of there bedroom. Most of those fuckers arent talkin about anything new in new york its the same ol shit and they are tellin us quit the gangsta image. For a long time they told the west couldnt rhyme. We could fuck up most of those fuckers over there.
I agree.
I a lot of west coast rapper could have made but it was hate and politics that kept it from happening.
Also the few west coast people (Dr. Dre, Snoop, Suge, Ice Cube, E-40 and Tomica Wright) that's in a position to make it possible for the west coast and their artists to get back into the spotlight isn't doing anything.
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What we need is the old school cats like Dj Silp and Unknown dj and yes Dr.Dre and others who knows how to produce to put west back on the map they been around for more then 20 plus years and made hit records but then again its all these different sets and hoods make it hard for the west to succeed north Cal just don't get along the south Cal.