West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: Tanjential on June 13, 2009, 12:18:15 PM
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I know there's other threads but I'm not gonna read all 24 pages of that thread and I'm not going to post in it if I don't really even know what's been said in it:
At first listen, I thought the first several tracks were well produced but over-all whack because of the tired ass subject matter. Then I really dug the rest of the album...
but now I've listened to the record about 3 times and I think it's his best since SS or MM (depending on which of those you think is better, I say SS)....
Em has reached a plateau with his mastery of rap that most MCs can only dream of.
Dre and Em really push themselves to match different rhythms with different flows and innovate different combinations of their sound....it's a gratifying accomplishment.
This is how a concept record is done: not too conceptually framed, but clearly has recurring themes and images.
What I find really remarkable is how funny Eminem remains.
"Jessica Alba? Put her breasts on my mouth bra!" cracks me up everytime as well as
"Walking down Elm street with a whiffle bat drew/came out with a little scratch ooh/lookin' like I got in a pillow fight with a triple fat goose"
the Chris Reeves impersonation is GREAT as welll....comedy
and many more lines are hilarious.
Dre comes wiith some monster production (deja vu, my mom, crack a bottle, many more) but what stands most noteworthy is that Dre is undisputedly great at producing FOR THE ARTIST. Many other people throw their style against their collaborator's style and hope it works...Dre tailors the work to Em. It's a completely different 20 beats then if Dre was to produce for 50 or Snoop or whoever....it's exciting to know a fully dre produced record really means whatever artist he's producing accommodated to and brought to their best- though Dre is a student of the Beatles and Phil Specter's Wall of sound, he keeps his Eminem productions spare, sparse, minimalist (or at least they SEEM like they are...) so that Em's ridiculous flow and narratives are always center-stage.
Sometimes I miss Em's older more straight forward style (and to his credit, sometimes the best aspects of that flow are present on certain tracks) but Dre and he have crafted a very melodic, hook ready persona for this ridiculous MC. Integrating singing into rapping is absolutely essential for modern pop hip hop success and far be it for Dre and Em to get left behind by the Kid Cudis of the world....
It's absolutely incredible that Dre produced this whole record...and you can see the craft. It's been a decade since 2001 LP, and I think it's safe to say Dre has found his sparse yet complexly funky niche again.
Dre can still do complex dense soundscapes, and I think we'll see him do that again with certain artists, but he knows when to take a 'back seat' but then when you stop and listen to any of the beats closely you see Dre has laced it complexly with low key piano lines, subtle synths and sound effects....it has all the complexity and rich layering of ANY dre production in the past but he just mixes it so perfect that Em shines prominently over it.
Now...Em....His topics are tired but when you start to see what he's getting at..it's okay. This is, hopefully, his last 'relapse' into his typical demons and topics and he implies that this is an exorcism of sorts for himself. Getting all of this kind of thing out of his system so he can finally quit for good...
Check it out, I grew up on Em. 10 years ago, I was 11 and first heard SS LP and I was hooked. Em was the first artist I really got way into. I remember relating in a youthfully disgruntled way to his insane narratives and funny style. As years passed and I became a more chill and positive person, I felt Eminem was always pissed off in that immature little kid way even though I still recognized his monolithic talent. So when I hear Relapse with Em heartfeltedly admit that he may finally need to find another outlet besides angry hip hop...it touches me close to home. It makes me feel like I grew up with the guy, you know? I have to admit I cried when I heard Beautiful: Eminem finally learned that you have to be vulnerable emotionally sometimes, you have to be corny sometimes, you have be to...god forbid...NICE sometimes to fully and effectively appreciate life. It feels like a moment of maturity for him...i read that that was the only track he made for the record while still on drugs....not surprising that he had to be at a bottom-like moment to display that kiut ennd of humility. Eminem didn't even use the word 'beautiful' before 2007.
But enough about Em. People want to talk about this like he just had this huge come back....but when we're honest with ourselves he's never been out of the limelight for more than 2 years at a time since 99. What is FUCKING amazing about this is that Dre produced a whole record for someone else...he hasn't done this since 199 fucking 3 for Doggystyle.
This record is veritable treasure chest of music. Dre poured his effort into this and every beat he makes (hell even the em song, beautiful does not deviate the quality of production on the record) has layers of musical gems to dissect and take in. I would buy an instrumental version of this record. The diverse collection of beats on this album would challenge any MC worth his salt.
Old time's sake is a great Em/Dre throwback...almost as good as "Business" from Em show. Same with "crack a bottle". Underground...jesus eminem rips this up. The beat's a little dramatic...but that's a lot of the tracks on the record and there are cinematic purposes though sometimes I feel like the music would be better served by being musical instead of wanting to soundtrack a non existent movie, but I understand the artistic decision....
Eminem understands his role in our culture(medicine ball), his social commentary and personal exploits are artistically exploited to the max...he can now weave fictions without being confused with how close they are to his life ( same song and dance, 3 am) and tell heartbreakingly moving stories and be funny and taken seriously all at the same time (deja vu, beautiful)..and he can still just fuckin' spit (baghdad, underground, hello, crack a bottle, we made you).
There's a lot of musical layers here...with the rapping and the incredible dre production. It's a great record....BUT I have felt like this about all of Em's records since SS LP (with the exception of the unevenness that is Encore) at first and have always found that they fail to addict me, to hook me, to make me listen to the record for more than a few weeks. I remember Marshall Mathers LP was the SHIT for like two months...Eminem show? Awesome...for a month.
Those records were well done, Em's skill impeccable...but it just didn't stick with me, wasn't jiving with my attitudes, wasn't the kind of thing that I needed to soundtrack my life, didn't have enough musical depth to warrant more than a month or two of replay value...
I like to think, I sincerely hope that the all-Dre production aspect of this record is going to make it more addictive and more meriting of months of analysis and relistening. There's a lot of hidden treasure here, from Dre's cuts to layers of Em's rhymes that you may not have even noticed the first second and third times. I am digging Dre's scratching on Insane and Old Time's sake...
I also like that despite not being a notoriously 'stony' rapper he and Dre give plenty of good weed-smoker cuts (old time's sake, must be the ganja, deja vu, others); all hip hop artists that really want to be succesful need to make stoner-friendly music. That's why Kid Cudi will go farther than Lupe Fiasco if you ask me. A lot of intent music critics, customers, and appreciators like myself like weed with their music it's a nice combo.
flaws to this record? well, like I mentioned....on the first listen, the subject matter is tired. You have to listen to it the second and third time to realize that Eminem has been sharpening his style further yet and that is' more about his style and artistic achievement than the same tired topics....some of the beats are cinematic when they would probably benefit from being more musical....a lot of the images just make for unpleasant listening. as awesome as 'iinsane' is, i don't like hearing about dicks in little boys and shit like that. it's not shit i blaze one up to....Eminem needs to learn the difference between music you can just put on during any time and enjoy and headphone music. since so much of his work is so dark and intelligent, a lot of it is 'headphone' music because you have to listen intently to fully appreciate it...which in all honesty, makes it second-tier artwork. TRULY great music rewards a headphone listen but is still HELLA enjoyable when it's just on in the background (think illmatic, regulate, chronic...others...)...a lot of Eminem's music...and I think this is true from MM LP on, is NOT enjoyable just playing in the background: dissonant sounds, abrasive sounds and topics, unpleasant choppiness....and that continues somewhat in this record. I don't know how much I'd enjoy the record if I didn't engage it....and that's gonna matter in a month when it's on in the background and I'm not giving it my full attention. Then again, this is how I feel about most hip-hop....sometimes I wonder if even SS LP wouldn't have addicted me the way it did if it wasn't the first full length Em record I was exposed to...maybe after that first Em record addiction it can never quite happen like that because as much as he updates his style and modifies the format...he's still basically talking about the exact same shit on his newest record as on his first. Maybe more on his mom than his wife, but the same shit really. But then again...snoop dogg is still rapping about weed right? The rolling stones still sing about love, right? The difference is those are songs you can have in the background....serial killing rape disasters don't have the same kind of aesthetic pleasantries as those topics.
I give 4-4.5 stars. 4.5 if I'm still bangin' this record in two months. 4 because it's just so well crafted and it's a gift to get a Dre produced album in its entirety; long time coming.
I love how Em says 2020 now, pointing out how arbitrary it is to put deadlines on Dre.
someone should link me to all em's records Infinite/SS EP/SS LP/MM LP....the only one I still own is Eminem Show, I haven't heard the others in a long ass time, maybe they warrant a revisit....
what do y'all think? am I missing anything?
-T
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At first listen, I thought the first several tracks were well produced but over-all whack because of the tired ass subject matter.
That's how I felt from the beginning and still feel. Not really feeling the album. Maybe 6 tracks or so.
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addendum: what makes the highest i can give this record 4.5 and not 5/5 is the lack of conventionally appealing melodies. songs like insane and medicine ball are brilliantly produced but their melodies are intentionally experimental and dissonant. There's very few songs with melodies as great, catchy and Eminem appropriate as "my Mom" and if there were more like those and less like "insane" and "medicine ball" this record would get a 5/5. medicine ball, insane, and other banging innovative tracks like that are good....but the melodic lack and dissonance puts them below ridiculously hard and melodic tracks like my mom, deja vu, and old time's sake that make classic fuckin records classic.
-T
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At first listen, I thought the first several tracks were well produced but over-all whack because of the tired ass subject matter.
That's how I felt from the beginning and still feel. Not really feeling the album. Maybe 6 tracks or so.
dang you replied fast. did you read my whole review? LOL
Thanks for your thoughts. stay tuned, I need to come talk about kid cudi with y'all soon. that shit is important.
-T
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Tanje always got dope reviews, even though i might not always agree with them. +1 for posting.
At first listen, I thought the first several tracks were well produced but over-all whack because of the tired ass subject matter.
That's how I felt from the beginning and still feel. Not really feeling the album. Maybe 6 tracks or so.
Yeah, me too. I still don't understand what is so special about this album
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After hearing him reflect on the record I don't think it lives up to his intentions and am disappointed. Mainly because it's supposed to make you laugh at the disturbing images presented but his jokes and his delivery weren't funny.
Crack a Bottle, We Made You, Old Time's Sake should have been leftovers.
My Mom works for me because I don't find it funny but disturbing and a reflection of his life.
Insane serves no real purpose. If there was truth to the story then it would make sense but it's just for shock grabs. Where's the heart? There's nothing funny about Insane.
The more he talks about the record the more I'm convinced he failed.
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faves:
my mom - not crazy about the topic, but musically this song is undeniable
bagpipes from baghdad- i like the verses and music here alot
old time's sake- dre/em update...good shit
deja vu-great melodies, great song
beautiful-em grows up, essential
crack a bottle- the pianos on this track are monster, the rappers do okay too.
i've heard a lot of people saying what's the big deal about dre producing the whole record,
firstly, like i said this hasn't happened in 10-16 years depending on how you look at it. secondly, this is how hip hop used to be...one mc and one producer figuring out different ways to collaborate. it's amazing how diverse of a record that basically two men came up with. one can say the same about doggystyle....it's marvelous to see real extended expanded collaboration.
this record easily could have been 'hip hop is dead' all over again- a great set of raps from a veteran MC over 20 different e-mailed beats from different producer so the album has no musical engine, no production vision, so not the classic it deserved to be. whether relapse is a classic remains to be seen, but the album is supremely well crafted in my opinion-em and dre are two men who are good at what they fuckin' do.
the question is--how relevant is what they do in today's music world? like i said, if other music hasn't displaced this from my cd player in two months, we have a victory here...
-T
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i cant stand My Mom, i guess i dont see what everyone likes about that track.
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overall i thought this album was dope.anything from em and dre at this point is dope to me.after being away musically for a couple years,em anyways,nice to hear other shit going against whats on the radio.i liked this album over his last solo,his last solo, i was not feeling his flow or goo goo gaga type shit i took from it.the beats on his last album from dre were on point but content,wasnt feeling it.
i too homes grew up on em, i remember when the mmlp came out and i was floored,shocked, and wowed. with this album i cant say that, i am a fan of this album though. my mom,must be the ganja,beautiful overall are my favorite tracks by far.the productions was dope as fuck,hello doesnt grab me at first but it is a dope beat,something about the beginning that has me thinking its wack. for old times sake was and is a vintage dre beat to me.just something about it that has me throwing up the dub.
i been floored by em songs like haileys
song mockingbird.even before i became a dad to my daughter.makes me appreciate his older stuff that much more.beautiful is the only song on this album that i can say that about.it literally gave me goosebumps.
overall
4 out of 5 for me.
lets wait for part two.
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Melody my friend. Melody.
But, and this is not meant to be condescending or anything, I see how hip-hop fans could miss that because most people that are bigger into hip-hop than other genres typically don't care a whole lot for melody.
-T
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Theres a couple tracks that stand out for me (Underground, Deja Vu, Hello, My Mom and a couple others) but I think topic matter is the main downer for me. I was hoping for more hip hop themed lyrics however I understand thats Ems appeal (he doesn't focus on just hip hop themes). Thats one of things that makes SSLP so good to me cause the topics are more hip hop and traditional.
I hope Relapse 2 really has the collaborations with Royce and Premo. Just simply cause I miss hearing that type of Em track. Underground was the only track I felt like he went back to that style.
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yeah, i'll probably buy it once it's collected with relapse II.
-T
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Melody my friend. Melody.
But, and this is not meant to be condescending or anything, I see how hip-hop fans could miss that because most people that are bigger into hip-hop than other genres typically don't care a whole lot for melody.
-T
fair enough, but with that tired ass subject matter i cant stand to listen to it. Em could probably have a whole fuckin cd of just tracks about him mom. Move on already bro.
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Great review and it's pretty much exactly how I feel about the album. It's also my 2nd favorite Em cd after SSLP, MMLP might have stronger individual tracks but the whole cd doesn't flow as this one. The replay value on Relapse is ridiculous. Also agree about Em's music not fitting into the background music category as you've put it.
addendum: what makes the highest i can give this record 4.5 and not 5/5 is the lack of conventionally appealing melodies. songs like insane and medicine ball are brilliantly produced but their melodies are intentionally experimental and dissonant. There's very few songs with melodies as great, catchy and Eminem appropriate as "my Mom" and if there were more like those and less like "insane" and "medicine ball" this record would get a 5/5. medicine ball, insane, and other banging innovative tracks like that are good....but the melodic lack and dissonance puts them below ridiculously hard and melodic tracks like my mom, deja vu, and old time's sake that make classic fuckin records classic.
-T
Again, you took the words right out of my mouth about Insane and Medicine Ball in contrast with melodies.
BTW as far as the subject matter goes, yeah Em might have went back to SSLP days but considering he actually had a drug problem and realpsed twice, it definetly goes with the concept of the album. But none of this on Relapse 2. Plus I'd still rather hear him rap about Kim, mom, dad, daughters, family in general than listen to gangsta rappers rapping about clubs, bitches, guns and how hood they are. At least his repeating subject matter is more personal and introspective and is somehting anybody can relate to more than being a gang member.
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You guys are focusing heavily on production and what not. I LOVE the production on this album. But artist effort/performance? Em fails.
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Who said anything about production ? The beats don't otushine Em, they simplay represent a background drop for Em. There's no flashy, over the top production like Dre would do for his other artists. Em is pretty much his only protege that's an actual MC and not a hustler turned rapper. Lyrically, flow wise; can't nobody touch Eminem.
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Lyrically, flow wise; can't nobody touch Eminem.
uhhhhh u serious?
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Who said anything about production ? The beats don't otushine Em, they simplay represent a background drop for Em. There's no flashy, over the top production like Dre would do for his other artists. Em is pretty much his only protege that's an actual MC and not a hustler turned rapper. Lyrically, flow wise; can't nobody touch Eminem.
The production isn't over the top or anything, but it's as hot as it gets nowadays. Flow wise, yes, dope! but lyrically? No. this album is all over the place lyrically. Listen to that dumb ass subject matter on "Bagpipes" and that's clear he's lost it. He could have used taht beat/song title to drop some dope political inspired shit, but instead decided to for some retarded reason, rip on Nick Cannon ::)
and the Chris Reeves thing? So old and outdated. Pure stupid. And not in a "oh man that Eminem is crazy, always pushing people's buttons and causing controversy" way, more of a "what a pathetic way to try and start controversy he USED to cause, but back then, he would do it by doing/saying shit he actually MEANT and people took it as shocking that he actually had these views/the balls to say it."
This is just plain stupid now.
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I think the most disapointing aspect of the album was that Em didn't really talk that much about the issues everyone was waiting for (expect his drug problem which pretty much dominated the album). I was expecting a Proof dedication but it wouldn't really have fitted in with the theme of the album i guess. Maybe Relapse 2 will be more to my liking...
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1st: Holy shit, welcome back man, I thought you were dead or some shit.
2nd: Nice review. Pretty much bang on the money too, in my opinion.
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dope review!
i am still bumpin' this entire album daily! 8)
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Dre comes wiith some monster production (deja vu, my mom, crack a bottle, many more) but what stands most noteworthy is that Dre is undisputedly great at producing FOR THE ARTIST. Many other people throw their style against their collaborator's style and hope it works...Dre tailors the work to Em. It's a completely different 20 beats then if Dre was to produce for 50 or Snoop or whoever....it's exciting to know a fully dre produced record really means whatever artist he's producing accommodated to and brought to their best- though Dre is a student of the Beatles and Phil Specter's Wall of sound, he keeps his Eminem productions spare, sparse, minimalist (or at least they SEEM like they are...) so that Em's ridiculous flow and narratives are always center-stage.
Sometimes I miss Em's older more straight forward style (and to his credit, sometimes the best aspects of that flow are present on certain tracks) but Dre and he have crafted a very melodic, hook ready persona for this ridiculous MC. Integrating singing into rapping is absolutely essential for modern pop hip hop success and far be it for Dre and Em to get left behind by the Kid Cudis of the world....
It's absolutely incredible that Dre produced this whole record...and you can see the craft. It's been a decade since 2001 LP, and I think it's safe to say Dre has found his sparse yet complexly funky niche again.
Dre can still do complex dense soundscapes, and I think we'll see him do that again with certain artists, but he knows when to take a 'back seat' but then when you stop and listen to any of the beats closely you see Dre has laced it complexly with low key piano lines, subtle synths and sound effects....it has all the complexity and rich layering of ANY dre production in the past but he just mixes it so perfect that Em shines prominently over it.
-T
dope ass review! +1
the parts that are bolded is exactly how i feel. i get tired of people saying, "This & that track suck; Dre coulda done better...etc." because i dont think they see that Dre made those beats specifically for Eminem & not any other artist. That's what makes Dre one of the greatest, if not, best producer in hip-hop, because he makes tracks specifically for that artist & not for anyone else.
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Dope album review man, sure there are some weak cuts on this album but the rhymes are crazy, the flows are really on point and of course the production did not let anyone down. I think this is one of those albums which you really feel or you give it a frosty reception but it's all good.
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eminem fails lyricly..oh my God :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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Lunatic--Re: Baghdad...I was very close to saying the same thing in that I would have dug some political commentary but ultimately decided that I liked that the song didn't have a real topic and that it was just him spittin' verses. How do you feel about the track Deja Vu? The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it's the best track on the record....
-T
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Lunatic--Re: Baghdad...I was very close to saying the same thing in that I would have dug some political commentary but ultimately decided that I liked that the song didn't have a real topic and that it was just him spittin' verses. How do you feel about the track Deja Vu? The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it's the best track on the record....
-T
Yes it is. One of his best track period.
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Lunatic--Re: Baghdad...I was very close to saying the same thing in that I would have dug some political commentary but ultimately decided that I liked that the song didn't have a real topic and that it was just him spittin' verses. How do you feel about the track Deja Vu? The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking it's the best track on the record....
-T
Deja Vu is definitely one of my fav tracks on the album
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Great review T
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thanks d, what are your thoughts on the record?
-T
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the dark music is actually what's so great about Eminem's past work.
the thing is with Relapse, Eminem can't do what he does best any more: this was already clear on Encore, and he proved it again this time(even though i think Relapse is slightly better than Encore).
sure he can still flow though.
Underground is easily the best track on the album for me: Eminem pulled off an amazing performance & the production is awesone 8) nice wordplay too.
i understand that some lines look silly but it doesn't bother me.
i actually like this:
Jacking off to a hockey mask, at a boxing match
"He can't say that", yes he can, I just did faggot
Now guess again, you better text message your next of kin
the song is not as good as his best work, but it does remind me of it in a good way ;)
overall with Relapse, Eminem & Dr.Dre failed.
it proved that Dre's perfectionism is irrational.
i hope that Relapse II will be better, but i'm not counting on it.
also, anyone that thinks that the followup will be completely different, is insane
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The album is great, and I'm still playing it on a daily basis.. The great thing is that there isn't really any song that is totally shitty, so it's one of the few new albums that I can hear from start to finish..
+1
Can't wait for Relapse 2.. 8)
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thanks d, what are your thoughts on the record?
-T
I think it's good but not great like his previous work. Beats are knocking on here and it has alot of replay value as a whole, but for me not those handful of tracks like on his other ones that get CONSTANT replay status. It's a grower so I am about on my 8 or 9th time listening to it so I am paying more attention to his cadence and rhyme patterns. 3 AM is my shit.
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great review tanj and welcome back,
i thought the album was solid and overall i was pleased with the album, lets face it i think we all thought that the album was gunna be terrible but i think what most people were taken aback by was how good/decent it was. theres songs on the album which i think are some of the best songs he's ever done. the dre production was very melodic and eeerie throughout the album which is what made the album so well produced. it was as if each song was produced around what ems lyrics were rather than a rapper just getting in the booth and rapping over any kind of beat.
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this ain't gonna be no 24 pages
-T
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Good review. I think there were some nice observations and points made. I guess we're of similar opinions on several points. One is that, I thought the album's opening was a little boring and derivative of some of the earlier stuff Em has done. Actually, I think the album would have been better served to have the track, "My Darling" serve as the opening song, as it seems to establish what basically is a recurring theme throughout the entire album. I'm not too into the track "My Mom." I appreciate the message in the song and Em's use of irony that he has now basically become the same type of person that he has attacked numerous times on his previous albums.
Where the album really takes off for me is with the song, "Insane." Although some of the subject matter is pretty disturbing, it is a well crafted track. Also, I completely agree with you on "Bagpipes from Baghdad." To me, this is one of the tightest tracks on the album. Some may think the lyrics are meaningless. But whether you like the cartoonish subject matter or not, it's difficult to refute that his delivery is amazing on this track. Personally, I loved the subject matter on this track. To me, it was one of the funniest tracks on the cd.
While I can't say that this album is on the level of "classic" or even "great," (there are few tracks at the beginning I find myself almost always skipping over), I really do think that it was a giant step in the right direction. I think there are a few tracks on here that could have been cut. At the same time, I'm still very surprised by the quality of the two bonus tracks and really feel that they should have been included on the actual album.
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are the bonus tracks dre beats? can i have them if they are?
-T
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Dope review bro, on the money with my thoughts...
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are the bonus tracks dre beats? can i have them if they are?
-T
Nah. I believe they were both Eminem production.
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I think if his depression era recordings were too leak as a whole they'd be considered classic.
I mean the 3 joints that were released were all of proper quality that everyone wanted from Em.
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Great read Tanj, welcome back. I think the focus on the melodies is key and I'm glad you brought it up because some would argue that's what has been missing from Dre's sound in recent years. The little phase when Dre beats were comprised mainly of loops is clearly not the case here.
If you peep certain records, you'll notice that Dre is doing legitimate outro's again. Just when the beat starts to fade away, Dre adds some bugged out shit that sounds killer. My personal favorite joint is "Same Song & Dance", that beat has some hypnotic vibe to it, I don't know if it's the guitar twangs or the angelic type voice, the keys during the hook. Shit sounds crazy.
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Tanj, I have to say I completely agree with your review and I feel exactly the same about almost everything you said!
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are the bonus tracks dre beats? can i have them if they are?
-T
Nah. I believe they were both Eminem production.
You should check them out either way, cause they are both tight as fuck!
"Careful what you wish" and "My darling" are the two tracks, and especially my darling is INSANE!.. 8)
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+1 for this review Tanjint! It will be very hard to top this album in 2009. Best Eminem Record since MM, no doubt.
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are the bonus tracks dre beats? can i have them if they are?
-T
Nah. I believe they were both Eminem production.
You should check them out either way, cause they are both tight as fuck!
"Careful what you wish" and "My darling" are the two tracks, and especially my darling is INSANE!.. 8)
I completely agree. They're both hella tight. And if you like Dre, "My Darling" does feature a brief appearance from Dre.
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Great read Tanj, welcome back. I think the focus on the melodies is key and I'm glad you brought it up because some would argue that's what has been missing from Dre's sound in recent years. The little phase when Dre beats were comprised mainly of loops is clearly not the case here.
If you peep certain records, you'll notice that Dre is doing legitimate outro's again. Just when the beat starts to fade away, Dre adds some bugged out shit that sounds killer. My personal favorite joint is "Same Song & Dance", that beat has some hypnotic vibe to it, I don't know if it's the guitar twangs or the angelic type voice, the keys during the hook. Shit sounds crazy.
Yup, my favourite track on the cd too, its hypnotizing
Would love an instumental of it
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I personally cant get into the album as a whole. I like certain tracks such as 3am lyracally hes crazy on this ("i remember the 1st time i dismembered a family member/december i think it was".........i thought i outta drink his bath water/that outta be fun/thats when my days of serial murder manslaughter begun")..that word play is amazing. Also bagpiped from bagdad, but tunes like insane i thought were awful the album could really have done with out that track...
Still ill be iterested to see what he comes with on relapse 2
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+1 for this review Tanjint! It will be very hard to top this album in 2009. Best Eminem Record since MM, no doubt.
LOL i respect opinions, but come on....
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ain't it great with 3-4 relapse threads so dubcc can repeat their opinions like some parrots?
...and hey lets request (audio and info about) the bonus tracks,when they're already posted in the OG thread.
hippie hater
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Nah Raide is the homie. He's like I used to be about this place: wanting to improve it, wanting people to be better and sharper all the time. I can relate...but I stopped putting that kind of investment into my internet life...maybe when I'm done with college I can again...I come here to be lazy and for things to be at my convenience...
Wow a Nima appearance. Appreciated. For reals, I appreciate the words. Like I said, when I get the chance to write as much as I did regarding this record, I have a lot of thoughts on Kid Cudi and some other stuff...
-T
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Nah Raide is the homie. He's like I used to be about this place: wanting to improve it, wanting people to be better and sharper all the time. I can relate...but I stopped putting that kind of investment into my internet life...maybe when I'm done with college I can again...I come here to be lazy and for things to be at my convenience...
Wow a Nima appearance. Appreciated. For reals, I appreciate the words. Like I said, when I get the chance to write as much as I did regarding this record, I have a lot of thoughts on Kid Cudi and some other stuff...
-T
Yeah I feel what you saying. I go through my ups and downs posting here. Dope review once again T.
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Nah Raide is the homie. He's like I used to be about this place: wanting to improve it, wanting people to be better and sharper all the time. I can relate...but I stopped putting that kind of investment into my internet life...maybe when I'm done with college I can again...I come here to be lazy and for things to be at my convenience...
Wow a Nima appearance. Appreciated. For reals, I appreciate the words. Like I said, when I get the chance to write as much as I did regarding this record, I have a lot of thoughts on Kid Cudi and some other stuff...
-T
i know, i was just making a joke ;)
as a matter of fact, i was a guest when you were active; HighEyeCue was very active at that time as well.
by the time i started posting, you went AWOL.
so you don't need to explain to me about Chad Vader/Raider :) Chad & D~Nice were one of the first posters to give me positive feedback ;)
posters like them really make this forum a better place, no joke 8)
Nah Raide is the homie. He's like I used to be about this place: wanting to improve it, wanting people to be better and sharper all the time. I can relate...but I stopped putting that kind of investment into my internet life...maybe when I'm done with college I can again...I come here to be lazy and for things to be at my convenience...
Wow a Nima appearance. Appreciated. For reals, I appreciate the words. Like I said, when I get the chance to write as much as I did regarding this record, I have a lot of thoughts on Kid Cudi and some other stuff...
-T
Yeah I feel what you saying. I go through my ups and downs posting here. Dope review once again T.
but you couldn't stay away long ;D ;)
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are the bonus tracks dre beats? can i have them if they are?
-T
Nah. I believe they were both Eminem production.
You should check them out either way, cause they are both tight as fuck!
"Careful what you wish" and "My darling" are the two tracks, and especially my darling is INSANE!.. 8)
I completely agree. They're both hella tight. And if you like Dre, "My Darling" does feature a brief appearance from Dre.
Very funny appearance as well, telling him that he needs the drugs to be good.. same thing the Em haters been saying for years now ;D
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I know there's other threads but I'm not gonna read all 24 pages of that thread and I'm not going to post in it if I don't really even know what's been said in it:
At first listen, I thought the first several tracks were well produced but over-all whack because of the tired ass subject matter. Then I really dug the rest of the album...
but now I've listened to the record about 3 times and I think it's his best since SS or MM (depending on which of those you think is better, I say SS)....
Em has reached a plateau with his mastery of rap that most MCs can only dream of.
Dre and Em really push themselves to match different rhythms with different flows and innovate different combinations of their sound....it's a gratifying accomplishment.
This is how a concept record is done: not too conceptually framed, but clearly has recurring themes and images.
What I find really remarkable is how funny Eminem remains.
"Jessica Alba? Put her breasts on my mouth bra!" cracks me up everytime as well as
"Walking down Elm street with a whiffle bat drew/came out with a little scratch ooh/lookin' like I got in a pillow fight with a triple fat goose"
the Chris Reeves impersonation is GREAT as welll....comedy
and many more lines are hilarious.
Dre comes wiith some monster production (deja vu, my mom, crack a bottle, many more) but what stands most noteworthy is that Dre is undisputedly great at producing FOR THE ARTIST. Many other people throw their style against their collaborator's style and hope it works...Dre tailors the work to Em. It's a completely different 20 beats then if Dre was to produce for 50 or Snoop or whoever....it's exciting to know a fully dre produced record really means whatever artist he's producing accommodated to and brought to their best- though Dre is a student of the Beatles and Phil Specter's Wall of sound, he keeps his Eminem productions spare, sparse, minimalist (or at least they SEEM like they are...) so that Em's ridiculous flow and narratives are always center-stage.
Sometimes I miss Em's older more straight forward style (and to his credit, sometimes the best aspects of that flow are present on certain tracks) but Dre and he have crafted a very melodic, hook ready persona for this ridiculous MC. Integrating singing into rapping is absolutely essential for modern pop hip hop success and far be it for Dre and Em to get left behind by the Kid Cudis of the world....
It's absolutely incredible that Dre produced this whole record...and you can see the craft. It's been a decade since 2001 LP, and I think it's safe to say Dre has found his sparse yet complexly funky niche again.
Dre can still do complex dense soundscapes, and I think we'll see him do that again with certain artists, but he knows when to take a 'back seat' but then when you stop and listen to any of the beats closely you see Dre has laced it complexly with low key piano lines, subtle synths and sound effects....it has all the complexity and rich layering of ANY dre production in the past but he just mixes it so perfect that Em shines prominently over it.
Now...Em....His topics are tired but when you start to see what he's getting at..it's okay. This is, hopefully, his last 'relapse' into his typical demons and topics and he implies that this is an exorcism of sorts for himself. Getting all of this kind of thing out of his system so he can finally quit for good...
Check it out, I grew up on Em. 10 years ago, I was 11 and first heard SS LP and I was hooked. Em was the first artist I really got way into. I remember relating in a youthfully disgruntled way to his insane narratives and funny style. As years passed and I became a more chill and positive person, I felt Eminem was always pissed off in that immature little kid way even though I still recognized his monolithic talent. So when I hear Relapse with Em heartfeltedly admit that he may finally need to find another outlet besides angry hip hop...it touches me close to home. It makes me feel like I grew up with the guy, you know? I have to admit I cried when I heard Beautiful: Eminem finally learned that you have to be vulnerable emotionally sometimes, you have to be corny sometimes, you have be to...god forbid...NICE sometimes to fully and effectively appreciate life. It feels like a moment of maturity for him...i read that that was the only track he made for the record while still on drugs....not surprising that he had to be at a bottom-like moment to display that kiut ennd of humility. Eminem didn't even use the word 'beautiful' before 2007.
But enough about Em. People want to talk about this like he just had this huge come back....but when we're honest with ourselves he's never been out of the limelight for more than 2 years at a time since 99. What is FUCKING amazing about this is that Dre produced a whole record for someone else...he hasn't done this since 199 fucking 3 for Doggystyle.
This record is veritable treasure chest of music. Dre poured his effort into this and every beat he makes (hell even the em song, beautiful does not deviate the quality of production on the record) has layers of musical gems to dissect and take in. I would buy an instrumental version of this record. The diverse collection of beats on this album would challenge any MC worth his salt.
Old time's sake is a great Em/Dre throwback...almost as good as "Business" from Em show. Same with "crack a bottle". Underground...jesus eminem rips this up. The beat's a little dramatic...but that's a lot of the tracks on the record and there are cinematic purposes though sometimes I feel like the music would be better served by being musical instead of wanting to soundtrack a non existent movie, but I understand the artistic decision....
Eminem understands his role in our culture(medicine ball), his social commentary and personal exploits are artistically exploited to the max...he can now weave fictions without being confused with how close they are to his life ( same song and dance, 3 am) and tell heartbreakingly moving stories and be funny and taken seriously all at the same time (deja vu, beautiful)..and he can still just fuckin' spit (baghdad, underground, hello, crack a bottle, we made you).
There's a lot of musical layers here...with the rapping and the incredible dre production. It's a great record....BUT I have felt like this about all of Em's records since SS LP (with the exception of the unevenness that is Encore) at first and have always found that they fail to addict me, to hook me, to make me listen to the record for more than a few weeks. I remember Marshall Mathers LP was the SHIT for like two months...Eminem show? Awesome...for a month.
Those records were well done, Em's skill impeccable...but it just didn't stick with me, wasn't jiving with my attitudes, wasn't the kind of thing that I needed to soundtrack my life, didn't have enough musical depth to warrant more than a month or two of replay value...
I like to think, I sincerely hope that the all-Dre production aspect of this record is going to make it more addictive and more meriting of months of analysis and relistening. There's a lot of hidden treasure here, from Dre's cuts to layers of Em's rhymes that you may not have even noticed the first second and third times. I am digging Dre's scratching on Insane and Old Time's sake...
I also like that despite not being a notoriously 'stony' rapper he and Dre give plenty of good weed-smoker cuts (old time's sake, must be the ganja, deja vu, others); all hip hop artists that really want to be succesful need to make stoner-friendly music. That's why Kid Cudi will go farther than Lupe Fiasco if you ask me. A lot of intent music critics, customers, and appreciators like myself like weed with their music it's a nice combo.
flaws to this record? well, like I mentioned....on the first listen, the subject matter is tired. You have to listen to it the second and third time to realize that Eminem has been sharpening his style further yet and that is' more about his style and artistic achievement than the same tired topics....some of the beats are cinematic when they would probably benefit from being more musical....a lot of the images just make for unpleasant listening. as awesome as 'iinsane' is, i don't like hearing about dicks in little boys and shit like that. it's not shit i blaze one up to....Eminem needs to learn the difference between music you can just put on during any time and enjoy and headphone music. since so much of his work is so dark and intelligent, a lot of it is 'headphone' music because you have to listen intently to fully appreciate it...which in all honesty, makes it second-tier artwork. TRULY great music rewards a headphone listen but is still HELLA enjoyable when it's just on in the background (think illmatic, regulate, chronic...others...)...a lot of Eminem's music...and I think this is true from MM LP on, is NOT enjoyable just playing in the background: dissonant sounds, abrasive sounds and topics, unpleasant choppiness....and that continues somewhat in this record. I don't know how much I'd enjoy the record if I didn't engage it....and that's gonna matter in a month when it's on in the background and I'm not giving it my full attention. Then again, this is how I feel about most hip-hop....sometimes I wonder if even SS LP wouldn't have addicted me the way it did if it wasn't the first full length Em record I was exposed to...maybe after that first Em record addiction it can never quite happen like that because as much as he updates his style and modifies the format...he's still basically talking about the exact same shit on his newest record as on his first. Maybe more on his mom than his wife, but the same shit really. But then again...snoop dogg is still rapping about weed right? The rolling stones still sing about love, right? The difference is those are songs you can have in the background....serial killing rape disasters don't have the same kind of aesthetic pleasantries as those topics.
I give 4-4.5 stars. 4.5 if I'm still bangin' this record in two months. 4 because it's just so well crafted and it's a gift to get a Dre produced album in its entirety; long time coming.
I love how Em says 2020 now, pointing out how arbitrary it is to put deadlines on Dre.
someone should link me to all em's records Infinite/SS EP/SS LP/MM LP....the only one I still own is Eminem Show, I haven't heard the others in a long ass time, maybe they warrant a revisit....
what do y'all think? am I missing anything?
-T
Yo, that is the best review I've read of Relapse. Perfectly on point. Reminds me of what makes this forum special. What's Koka like in the flesh? (off topic)
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nice review.. only thing i disagree on is not liking the insane songs, lol, i think that shit is hilarious.. but thats just a matter of sense of humor.. some people can only take so much so i can understand how some people dont like tracks like insane... lol
i give it 9/10 or 4.5/5 for sure tho
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insane is a dope song, it's just not my cup of tea...but it's a well put together song. his flow is great, the beat is hype
"then he played ping pong with his own ding dong/that muthafucker had nuts like king kong'
so simple but he flows it so powerfully.....thanks for the kindness y'all. peep the new post...
-T
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I know there's other threads but I'm not gonna read all 24 pages of that thread and I'm not going to post in it if I don't really even know what's been said in it:
ain't it great with 3-4 relapse threads so dubcc can repeat their opinions like some parrots?
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5JU5ZFn0jtI/Sc5QgjbumiI/AAAAAAAAAKA/QlyW4NezT50/s400/Senegal+Parrot+DSC05004.jpg)
...and hey lets request (audio and info about) the bonus tracks,when they're already posted in the OG thread.
Here's the;
Official Eminem "Relapse" Discussion Thread (http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=217653.0)
someone should link me to all em's records Infinite/SS EP/SS LP/MM LP....
the only one I still own is Eminem Show, I haven't heard the others in a long ass time, maybe they warrant a revisit....
what's the excuse now? you can't find them for a buck at walmart?
Nah Raide is the homie.
He's like I used to be about this place: wanting to improve it, wanting people to be better and sharper all the time.
I can relate...but I stopped putting that kind of investment into my internet life...maybe when I'm done with college I can again...
I come here to be lazy and for things to be at my convenience...
-T
:-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ please,you're better than that and you know it ;)
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do you write my papers for school?
do you do my job every day?
furthermore, more importantly...have you checked out my music that me and my folks create?
do you invest time into the shit that i work on? my obsessions? my life?
when's the last time you read a comic book i recommended to y'all?
Raide, you're the homey but please trust my judgment that only I know what I have time for in this life.
wanna get on my good side to the point where i owe you, and this west coast music forum some of my time again get some people (including yourself) to check out the west coast avengers and give me some feedback
peace-T
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Yo raide...where do you live anyway?
most people on this forum that i'm super cool with i'll meet up with and blaze with.
i'd still like to with you, d-nice (do my best to get at him before i go to vegas next), and several others.
get at me
-T