West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: M Dogg™ on January 18, 2006, 09:31:57 PM
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I was always weirded out seeing old reports of Hulk Hogan holding down younger talent. Thoughout wrestling history, there has always been that one guy that's the big draw. When Hulk Hogan broke into wrestling, it was Andre the Giant. And though Hogan was the champ, in Wrestlemania III, if Andre wanted to, he could have said he wanted the title, and Vince and Hulk would have gave it to him. Reading on the backstage, everyone paid Andre respect, and called him boss, though he called them boss, there was no denying he was the Boss of the backstage. He was the reason Hulk Hogan could be, the same way Hulk Hogan is the reason the current generation can be. These oung wrestlers should be paying Hogan respect, the same way Hogan and others in the 80's paid Andre. I know in the WWE they do now, but I know in WCW they didn't. The young talened didn't know who put food in their mouths. Everyone knew in the 80's that Andre put the food in their mouths. In the 90's, they forgot that it was off Hogan's draw that they ate. Now I sense they know, and that the 90's left many stars that paved the way, not just a Hogan or Andre figure. But still, I think back and I think about how other wrestlers wanted things handed to them because they are young. Reading old backstage stories, it was hard to get respect.
On a side note, Triple H doesn't deserve the backstage power he has. Hogan and Andre made wrestling, and wrestlers millions off their drawing power. You see Hogan or Andre on the headline, you buy a ticket and wrestlers on that show get pad more. Triple H is not that type. His a great in ring worker, up there with Benoit and Angle. But to me, to have that kind of power, you need to have the drawing power, and Triple H ain't that deal. Now if he wrestlers Angle at Wrestlemania, I think he will become that deal, but right now.
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you got some points,but sometimes you got to push talent in the bacc that work hard,regardless if you like them or not,cause thats where shit get fucc'd up at,come on man beefcake after his boating injury was shit (alot would say before that as well) but because he was one of "hogans friends" he got mad pushes when he clearly didn't deserve them,hell look at how man reincarnations he had in the wcw,hell he even headlined a feud with hogan!!!!!!,the thing that made andre great is,even tho he was "the boss" as you said,he never wore the belt during that time,giving someone like hogan time to shine along side him and then eventually passing the torch to him, who hogan do that for nash hahaha mr knobby knees,bill goldberg, who was a good draw during his streak,even tho he injured many of wrestlers with his wreccless style in the ring,you got to think about those sort of things, hell look at beniot and eddy g rip,when they got they time to shine they showed they could lead yell
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That's very true what you said about how some talent believes they deserve the spotlight because of their youth. A veteran's body has withstood the test of time and has proven his loyalty to the business and the art. These younger guys tend to be inexperienced, immature, injury prone, and not team players. That's why only a few in the talent pool tend to rise to the top. It's no different than the past generations, but with wrestlers whining and crying about their misfortune on the net, it makes the situation seem so different.
Brock Lesnar ring a bell? He was young, talented, and the WWE gave him the world. What does he do? He leaves his enormous contract for some long shot at the NFL. That's why the WWE would rather deal with a tried and proven veteran like Hogan, The Undertaker, etc.
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you got some points,but sometimes you got to push talent in the bacc that work hard,regardless if you like them or not,cause thats where shit get fucc'd up at,come on man beefcake after his boating injury was shit (alot would say before that as well) but because he was one of "hogans friends" he got mad pushes when he clearly didn't deserve them,hell look at how man reincarnations he had in the wcw,hell he even headlined a feud with hogan!!!!!!,the thing that made andre great is,even tho he was "the boss" as you said,he never wore the belt during that time,giving someone like hogan time to shine along side him and then eventually passing the torch to him, who hogan do that for nash hahaha mr knobby knees,bill goldberg, who was a good draw during his streak,even tho he injured many of wrestlers with his wreccless style in the ring,you got to think about those sort of things, hell look at beniot and eddy g rip,when they got they time to shine they showed they could lead yell
somethings go as they go. But you forgot that Warrior was originally suppose to get the torch. WCW was fucked up, but there was no one that Hogan could leave it with. Only Sting. But Sting was an old vet too.
As for Lesner, exactly. He got to beat the Undertaker, Hogan, Angle, and what did he do, leave. The Rock left. The only wrestler in Hogan/Andre's level is Steve Austin. And he can't wrestle no more because of his neck. He actually should have been done, but continued with a more brawling style just to continue wrestling. That's heart. That's someone that's a top draw and dedicated to wrestling. Benoit and Guerrero showed great backstage respect, and got it back. They deserved their title runs. But again, only Austin is on Hogan's level, on Andre's level. Hogan didn't have to pass the torch, Austin switch federations, and made his own torch and ran with it. In his last run as champion, his heel run after Wrestlemania X7, it seemed like no one was ready to carry it on. Triple H wants it, but he don't put butts in the seats. Benoit and Guerrero earned world titles, and follow in the Thesz, Flair, Hart tradition, and that's how they wanted their reigns to go. But it takes a lot to get to that Andre/Hogan level. On a side note, Frenchie Martin and Dino Bravo only had jobs because of Andre.
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The whole "Hogan holding back talent" thing is a myth. Hogan had clout, and got away with a lot of things, but people act like he was given what he had. Hogan took what he had. Nobody gave Hogan the ball, he took it. Sure, you can give Vince a lot of the credit, but could anybody else have done what Hogan did? No... he had an amazing work rate, he had an incredible body, he was unbelievably charismatic, and he just stepped up many, many years ago and took everything to an entire nother level.
When Hogan has been around other wrestlers with an ounce of the charisma he had (and still does) there's nothing he can do to hold them back. How could anybody have held Hogan back? It was impossible. They even fired him and he came back stronger than he was before. 20 years later, he can step back in the ring at Wrestlemania against the Rock, and be a bigger draw than he was in the prime of his career. He's unstoppable, immortal.
Look at Hogan's career. They put him in a fued with the Warrior. Hogan jobbed to the Warrior. The Warrior got a big head and fucked the whole thing up. Hogan went on to better things.
They put him in a fued with Sting. Hogan worked with and jobbed to Sting on several occassions. Sting, in that angle, got a greater rub than ever before, even though he had been champ and was already a huge name.
Hogan's jobbed to Flair countless times and vice versa.
Hogan jobbed to Bill Goldberg. Why? ... because Goldberg had a lot of momentum and stepped up and took the opportunity in front of him. That's how it works. Hogan couldn't have held Goldberg down, because Goldberg didn't let that happen. Then where did it go? Goldberg retired and Hogan, again, went on to bigger and better things.
Hogan jobbed to the Rock. What happened to the Rock? He retired and went on to Hollywood, Hogan's still around and the Rock's movie career is dwindling.
In WCW, at the end, Hogan jobbed to Mike Awesome. Mike Awesome even did an Awesome bomb with Hogan through a table in the middle of the ring. Where is Mike Awesome? Fat, out of shape, and even TNA won't hire him.
In WCW, at the end, Hogan jobbed to fuckin' Billy Kidman. Where is Billy Kidman? He's sitting at home drinking his life away because Vince McMahon fired him. Hogan's still sitting on top of the wrestling world in the meantime.
Hogan jobbed to Kurt Angle, and to HHH his last time around in the WWE as well.
Hulk Hogan has continuously worked angles and given rubs to the best wrestlers in the business, and many of them have went on to make nothing of it. There's really nothing people can argue about except to say Hogan didn't job to fuckin' Chris Benoit or whatever their favorite wrestler is that week, but Hogan never worked with guys like Benoit. He jobbed to friekin' Billy Kidman. You can't say shit about him holding people down.
Another thing, that Sik-o-tic mentioned, is that youth doesn't give you a shot. Hogan is extremely underrated by marks, they think oh, here's an old man who does the same old gimmick. Hulk Hogan has never injured an opponent in the ring. (don't give me that shit about that match in Japan, it was a work). Hulk has continuously drawn more than any other champion with the possible exception of Stone Cold Steve Austin. Hogan has an incredible amount of charisma, and is one of the best mic men ever, even if you think his "you know brother" act is stale, most people don't and most fans love him. Hogan more than any other wrestler has succeeded in becoming a pop icon, I saw Paul Teutle on American Choppers wearing a Hulk Hogan t-shirt the other night. When Batista gave up his belt in the middle of the ring last week, the girl crying in the audience was wearing a home-made "Hulkamania" T-shirt. He is head and shoulders above any wrestler before or since in the one aspect that matters: entertainment. He's entertained more fans than any other wrestler in a sport that now calls itself sports entertainment. He's the real deal. Who else right now stands up to him? Nobody, every other wrestler falls at his feet.
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don't forget in Japan, inring injuries are common because they wrestle stiff. Also, in Japan, Hogan was a technical wrestler, not a powerhouse. Hogan Japan 1984 was one of the bestter technical wrestler you'll ever see.
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On a side note, Triple H doesn't deserve the backstage power he has.
triple h and shawn michaels pretty much carried wwf when wcw was kicking their asses and everyone was leaving. triple h really did all he could to help make guys like austin and the rock as big as they were.
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Look at Hogan's career. They put him in a fued with the Warrior. Hogan jobbed to the Warrior. The Warrior got a big head and fucked the whole thing up. Hogan went on to better things.
the ultimate warrior is really the only person hogan jobbed for during maybe an 5-8 year stretch in the wwf, from the mid 80's to the early 90's. why couldn't the macho man keep the title for a little longer after he won it at wrestlemania 5? noone seriously competed with hogan until the ultimate warrior took that title from him. hogan never even lost the title to the macho man. andre beat him gave it to dibiase, then it was vacated. there's alot of guys in the wwf back in the day that never got a legit shot as hogan was given all the attention
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YALL MAKE ALOT OF GOOD POINTS BUT STILL BULLSHIT ABOUT HOGAN,REMEMBER THE PROMOTERS DO ALOT OF THE WORK,BY THROWING THE TITLE ON FOLKS AND GIVING THEM THAT SPOTLIGHT,AND FUCC THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR HE NEVER WAS GOOD ON THE STICC ANYWAY THATS WHY HE DIDN'T MAKE IT,BUT YALL CAN'T TELL ME SOMEONE LIKE MR PERFECT DIDN'T PUT BUTS IN SEATS,OR JAKE THE SNAKE AND THESE CATS NEVER GOT TITLE RUNS,AND I'LL DO YOU ONE BETTER,WHEN HOGAN WAS AT HIS HIGHEST IN POPULARTIY JYD WAS RIGHT THERE WITH HIM,BUT DID THEY PUT THE TITLE ON HIM? HELL HE DIDN'T EVEN GET THE IC TITLE AND HIS POPULARITY WAS RIGHT UP THERE WITH HOGAN,AND PEOPLE WAS COOL WITH HIM ON THE STICC,HE WAS WAY OVER,AND THE SAD THING ABOUT IT IS COLOR PLAYED A PART IN IT, AND HOW THE HELL DID BEEFCAKE GET A CHANCE TO HOLD A TITLE AND NOT JYD OR JAKE THE SNAKE? WHY CAUSE HE WAS HOGANS PAL SPEAK ON THEM POLITICS AS WELL YELL
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^^^^well mr. perfect did become a two-time intercontinental champion....
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don't forget in Japan, inring injuries are common because they wrestle stiff. Also, in Japan, Hogan was a technical wrestler, not a powerhouse. Hogan Japan 1984 was one of the bestter technical wrestler you'll ever see.
That's a stretch. He was definately better in Japan and could be carried when he hustled but one of the better technical wrestlers you will ever see? Not even close. If we are talking techinical skills Hogan isn't in the top 100. Unless you use some stupid WWE style list like Top 10 American Wrestlers to win a tournament in Japan.
And Trauma; if the finish was set up for Inoki to be KOed what is the logic behind it. Why would the first ever IWPG tournament have Inoki lose to a virtually unknown Hulk Hogan? This was in '83. Before Hogan had become the international star he became in the WWF. This was when he was he was still just an AWA main eventer. It makes no sense for Hogan to beat a buy like Inoki who was a way bigger star in Japan than Hogan ever was in the US.
As for Hogan's polticking; it's no secret. He helped his buddies get good spots and kept down guys he didn't like. In the 80s it was fine because there was nothing better for business. But in WCW he hurt it just as much as he helped it and really helped it go under. His career is filled with little hissy fits. He kicked out of Warrior's pin right at 3 to make it look like he may have kicked out (of course Warrior worked even harder to destroy himself), he refused to work WM9 unless he was given the title at the end of the night and then refused to job to Bret afterwards, he completely killed Sting's momentum with that terrible finish at Starrcade. And these are just the major things. And he wasn't that big a draw in 2002 Trauma. When he won the belt the month after he lost to Rock the ratings went from mid 4s to high 3s during his title run. That's why it only lasted a month.
I like Hogan, I'm a big fan, but that doesn't mean I will ignore the obvious and support lies.
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Hulk Hogan is still easily the greatest of all time, no matter what you want to say about him, or accuse him of. By far the most popular sports entertainer ever. I don't care if he fucking killed somebody, it doesn't take away from what we're talking about, the g.o.a.t. Shallow, it's your perogative to be the way you are, but you're throwing the logic you use at everything on here at this subject as well. If somebody truly IS the shit, then it's not big headed for them to say that about themselves. Hulk Hogan is the real deal, he has more clout than anybody else. "His friends" of course he gave his friends perks, who the fuck wouldn't? You mean to tell me you're going to put over and want good for people that are your enemies? He couldn't stand the Warrior and look where that ended up. Of course he helped Brutus Beefcake out, it was his buddy. Anybody with a heart is going to want what's best for their friends. If I can get my friend a job making a lot of money, I'm going to do it every single time.
As for him 'holding people down'. That's rediculous, and you still didn't adress what I said about it. How could someone have held Hogan down? WAS IT POSSIBLE, for anyone at anytime, to have held Hogan back? Could Vince have held Hogan down? No, because Hogan left, when Vince fired him, and went to the AWA and set the place on fire. He was so fucking good that Vince had to rehire him and it went from there. Vince couldn't have not gave Hogan the belt, because the fans demanded it. He couldn't have supressed Hogan's television time or whatever the hell you want to say Hogan did to Benoit or whoever, because the fans demanded Hogan on television.
Now lets go to WCW. Lets take Benoit. Let's say that Hulk Hogan hated Chris Benoit. He didn't like him, and didn't want him being on television. If Benoit was even on a third the level Hogan was, the fans would have demanded to see Benoit ever week, there would have been signs, there would have been complaints, the ratings would shoot up during Benoit's segments... Hogan would not have been able to hold the guy back if he was worth a shit. I'm not hating on Benoit, but the reason the guy hasn't been a huge star is because he just doesn't have what it takes to be a huge star. He's in the wrong business if that's what he's looking for. If he's looking to go out and entertain the hardcore fans and to enjoy wrestling as a sport and performing, then he's in the right sport.
Hogan couldn't have held back anybody worth a shit, it would have been impossible. Look @ Goldberg, you think Hogan WANTED to give his title up? Hell no, he did it because he knew he had to, Goldberg was the shit at the time so Hogan couldn't do anything about it. Anybody you want to say Hogan held back I'll tell you flat out didn't deserve the belt of the t.v. time or whatever the hell.
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Hulk Hogan is still easily the greatest of all time, no matter what you want to say about him, or accuse him of. By far the most popular sports entertainer ever. I don't care if he fucking killed somebody, it doesn't take away from what we're talking about, the g.o.a.t. Shallow, it's your perogative to be the way you are, but you're throwing the logic you use at everything on here at this subject as well. If somebody truly IS the shit, then it's not big headed for them to say that about themselves. Hulk Hogan is the real deal, he has more clout than anybody else. "His friends" of course he gave his friends perks, who the fuck wouldn't? You mean to tell me you're going to put over and want good for people that are your enemies? He couldn't stand the Warrior and look where that ended up. Of course he helped Brutus Beefcake out, it was his buddy. Anybody with a heart is going to want what's best for their friends. If I can get my friend a job making a lot of money, I'm going to do it every single time.
As for him 'holding people down'. That's rediculous, and you still didn't adress what I said about it. How could someone have held Hogan down? WAS IT POSSIBLE, for anyone at anytime, to have held Hogan back? Could Vince have held Hogan down? No, because Hogan left, when Vince fired him, and went to the AWA and set the place on fire. He was so fucking good that Vince had to rehire him and it went from there. Vince couldn't have not gave Hogan the belt, because the fans demanded it. He couldn't have supressed Hogan's television time or whatever the hell you want to say Hogan did to Benoit or whoever, because the fans demanded Hogan on television.
Now lets go to WCW. Lets take Benoit. Let's say that Hulk Hogan hated Chris Benoit. He didn't like him, and didn't want him being on television. If Benoit was even on a third the level Hogan was, the fans would have demanded to see Benoit ever week, there would have been signs, there would have been complaints, the ratings would shoot up during Benoit's segments... Hogan would not have been able to hold the guy back if he was worth a shit. I'm not hating on Benoit, but the reason the guy hasn't been a huge star is because he just doesn't have what it takes to be a huge star. He's in the wrong business if that's what he's looking for. If he's looking to go out and entertain the hardcore fans and to enjoy wrestling as a sport and performing, then he's in the right sport.
Hogan couldn't have held back anybody worth a shit, it would have been impossible. Look @ Goldberg, you think Hogan WANTED to give his title up? Hell no, he did it because he knew he had to, Goldberg was the shit at the time so Hogan couldn't do anything about it. Anybody you want to say Hogan held back I'll tell you flat out didn't deserve the belt of the t.v. time or whatever the hell.
I'm not calling the guy evil or saying he shouldn't have done it. I'm just saying he did. Not so much by going out of his way to put someone down like he did with Sting at Starrcade. Sting himself said that Hogan didn't want to lose but had to, but he didn't want to look bad losing either so he talked Bischoff into setting up that stupid slow fast count and have Hart interfere. So what people had been waiting for, Sting winning the belt, was now tainted and Sting looked weak. That was childish and stupid. Sting compared his view on wrestling as acting. You pay me millions and I'll do what you tell me to do. He said if you tell Al Pacino his character dies in the movie how stupid would it be for Pacino to decline shooting the scene because he's afraid to look weak.
Anyway, I'm talking about Hogan hogging TV time and not allowing others to get over just because he was on TV so much. He would start off Nitros with a 25 minute promo and then end up either in the main event or interefering in it, and show up here and there in between. That was fine when he was the main draw, but Nitro's ratings stayed just as high when Hogan left as when he was there. When Goldberg won the title Hogan could have left completely, instead he was back the second stupid Nash screwed over Goldberg (Nash was just as responsoble for WCW's downfall as Hogan was. Russo takes the cake but those two didn't help). Hogan was back the night after Goldberg lost the belt and then Goldberg slowly got pushed aside. Even when Goldberg was champ Hogan wouldn't back off. Instead of letting Goldberg run with the belt against the top contenders Hogan took the spotlight back with his dumb feuds with Jay Leno and Warrior. It's not Hogan's fault. Management should have known better.
And I didn't address you saying Vince couldn't stop Hogan because I never disagreed with it. Theoretically Vince could have sent a shooter out there to make Hogan tap infront of everyone in a 5 minute match, but that would be the dumbest thing Vince could do. Vince needed Hogan to make the most money possible. No one is doubting that.
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don't forget in Japan, inring injuries are common because they wrestle stiff. Also, in Japan, Hogan was a technical wrestler, not a powerhouse. Hogan Japan 1984 was one of the bestter technical wrestler you'll ever see.
That's a stretch. He was definately better in Japan and could be carried when he hustled but one of the better technical wrestlers you will ever see? Not even close. If we are talking techinical skills Hogan isn't in the top 100. Unless you use some stupid WWE style list like Top 10 American Wrestlers to win a tournament in Japan.
And Trauma; if the finish was set up for Inoki to be KOed what is the logic behind it. Why would the first ever IWPG tournament have Inoki lose to a virtually unknown Hulk Hogan? This was in '83. Before Hogan had become the international star he became in the WWF. This was when he was he was still just an AWA main eventer. It makes no sense for Hogan to beat a buy like Inoki who was a way bigger star in Japan than Hogan ever was in the US.
As for Hogan's polticking; it's no secret. He helped his buddies get good spots and kept down guys he didn't like. In the 80s it was fine because there was nothing better for business. But in WCW he hurt it just as much as he helped it and really helped it go under. His career is filled with little hissy fits. He kicked out of Warrior's pin right at 3 to make it look like he may have kicked out (of course Warrior worked even harder to destroy himself), he refused to work WM9 unless he was given the title at the end of the night and then refused to job to Bret afterwards, he completely killed Sting's momentum with that terrible finish at Starrcade. And these are just the major things. And he wasn't that big a draw in 2002 Trauma. When he won the belt the month after he lost to Rock the ratings went from mid 4s to high 3s during his title run. That's why it only lasted a month.
I like Hogan, I'm a big fan, but that doesn't mean I will ignore the obvious and support lies.
AMEN TO YOU MY EQUAL, HOGAN IS LIKE my favorite of all time,but what he did in wcw was terrible at the end networth yell
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;D
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When Andre ran things, it wasn't because he was a nice guy, or stepped down to allow Hogan to be a bigger name that people liked him, it was because when Andre the Giant headlined a card, you wanted to be on that card because it would sell out. Bobby Hennen said that in the 80's, people use to look at the card there were on, and if Hulk Hogan or Andre the Giant was on that card, they'd get happy because they knew there were in for a big payday. This was in the time before wrestlers had contracts that said they make x amount a year. So wrestlers then thanked the upper card, and they knew if oneday Hogan or Andre were not drawing fans in, then they could step up, or if the ball was given to them, to step up. Even in the 90's, there was incentive to get over with the fans by shirt sales. Still, wrestlers in the 80's were thankful to the upper card. Since then, wrestlers have been resentful, and I think this causes more backstage drama than Hogan putting over friends. Back in the day, if the wrestlers saw Brutus Beefcake on the card, and he didn't draw flys to horse shit, the other wrestlers would get mad, and lets just say things were very old school then. But now wrestlers complain to the internet, but they do not step up. Since Hulkamania, the only wrestler I saw step up, and take the ball and run was Steve Austin. He got himself over being a heel, the same way Hogan did before that. Once a generation is there a wrestling star that is as big a Hogan, Austin, Andre, Gorgous George. If Austin was still wrestling, and still drawing in fans, wrestlers now would be, his not putting people over, his hogging the spotlight. But if their pay was based sololy off their gate numbers, everyone would be dying to get on a card headlined by Steve Austin. In the 90's in WCW, everyone would be trying to get on a card headlined by Hogan. They would be loving the nWo, and praising Hall/Nash and Hogan for putting money in their pockets. Instead, there was a lot of people who thought they could do better .OK Billy Kidman, what have you done since, ok Goldberg, who cares about you anymore, Hogan put these people over, he put over many people once WCW was going down the shit hole. He wasn't drawing fans in no more, he tried to put over new stars, but in the WWF they had Austin who was the big thing. Austin was beating Rock, Triple H, Angle, Austin was the man, he was the biggest draw and no one in WCW was stepping up trying to do something better. WCW fell, not because of Hogan's politics, because his politics got them to beat the WWF for over a year in the ratings and question when McMahon was going to give up, but because the WWF had made their new Hogan, they got someone who they were not trying to put over, and he got over being who he is. McMahon Sr. did make Andre, but he knew how to market him, McMahon Jr. didn't make Hogan, but he got him back from the AWA and market him well, and in the 90's he didn't make Steve Austin, but he knew how to market him to the fans. In WCW, you had cool wrestlers and characters, some would go on to be great stars, like Benoit and Guerrero, but with Austin on your roster, they are mid-card.
Also, how did Eddie get the title, because he got himself over. He was heel, and they were cheering, they turned him face and the crowd was behind him and when he was heel and involved in stupit angles, they still cheered him. Same with Angle who basically was a crazy American Nazi, and fans still supported him. That's getting yourself over. McMahon almost ruined their careers, but the connected to the fans, and got over, and I mean Eddie got his brother a job, Chavo Classic, and Chavo Sr. actually won a title at an old age. Come on, that's politics to the Nth degree. But you know what, respect what Eddie and Angle have done, because people come to see them. In ECW it was RVD, if he was the headline, people came, not to see Lance Storm. In the 80's up to mid 90's it was Hulk Hogan, from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's it was Austin, from the 70's to the 80's it was Andre the Giant. Respect them, because Hogan when Hogan didn't get the AWA title, he just went to the WWF, when Austin didn't get the WCW title, he went to the WWF, Hogan basically put AWA out of business because AWA was nothing without Hogan, they invested in older talent that couldn't out draw Hogan, Austin basically put WCW out of business 'cause he was out drawing the older talent WCW was working with. But they put themselves over. Lets see who's next to do it. We'll see who will be the next big star, because the WWE doesn't make them, they make themselves.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yeah but if the WWE doesn't give them TV time and put thrm in bad feuds with stupid angles then they can't get over. Austin got over, but what helped get him over? The strong win in the King of The Ring helped and the big angle with Jake. Him being allowed to throw up middle fingers and stun whoever he wanted. With out that he would have had a hard time getting over. If they took Steve Austin in '96 after King of The Ring and had him lose match after match then he would have faded away. Matt Hardy was over huge when he first came back this summer. All it took was one 5 minutes squash match with Edge and now he's nowhere near where he could have been. I don't think he'd ever be a mega star but he could have been a very high midcarder. Look at RVD. He was more over than anyone in te company in late 2001. They kept jobbing him out and now he's just another midcarder.
No one is complaing about Hogan when he was a draw. It's when he wasn't draw that was the problem. He wasn't drawing anymore and he was taking up so much time that others couldn't get over. Not Hogan lone but he wasa big part. Hogan didn't put over Goldberg. Goldberg was over. Hogan just agreed to lose to him. Then Hogan put himself ahead of Goldberg by headlining the first PPVs when Goldberg was champ. People don't complain about the top guys that politic if they draw, because everyone gets paid. Even today you get percetages of PPV buys andgate if you are part of a major show. People wanted Austin or Rock to headline a PPV because the undercard got a piece. People complain about Hunter and Hogan '99 because they weren't drawing but they were still hogging the spotlight.
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yeah... but when Hogan wasn't drawing, he did eventually stepped aside. Wasn't it GOldberg vs. DDP that was the highest rated segment on Nitro, that was taped the day before. What was Hogan's match, against the Warrior. Who took the spotlight, he let Goldberg have it. Since the thing with the Warrior, Hogan has been suspect of anyone taking his place 'cause Warrior, Goldberg, they all have come and go. Hogan was jobbing to everyone after the Goldberg lose. He knew he was finished, tried retiring many times and kept getting brought back to put over more stars, which he did.
I think HHH has hurt the company more than he has helped. His backstage politics ruined RVD, Booker T, and many other stars that were over. I think Triple H needed to be checked. It wasn't him that help the company stay alive, it was Austin after WM13. Triple H was Shawn Michaels lacky. Austin and Michaels carried the WWE until Michaels back broke. Then HHH took Michaels spot, but was not as over. No one was thinking HHH as a World champion in 1998, and in 1999 when he became champ, the WWE tried everything to get him over. It wasn't until Stephine was "married" to him that he got over. His career has more to do with Stephine than anything else. He had the wrestling skills to be a World champion, but he didn't have IT. Stephine was his IT.
Hogan had IT. Hogan was the biggest draw of all time. Austin had IT. The Rock had IT. Eddie Guerrero has IT. In ECW, RVD had IT, IT is what makes you a top drawing champion. It's what has everyone cheering for you. It's when the fans chant your name from the moment they enter the building until the moment you leave. IT is the connection you have, and every other wrestler should never complain because you were hogging the spotlight. My friend, Hogan had it, and without Hogan, wrestling is still in the smokey high school gym, with it's loyal underground following. And maybe you like that, because that's what you want. But I bet you the wrestlers prefer to be headlined by Hulk Hogan making 200,000 a year, than working high school gyms making 500 a show.
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Go back and watch some tapes. The DDP/Goldberg match was second fiddle next to the Warrior/Hogan feud on Nitro the whole time. And before that it was Hogan on Leno and facing Leno that took the spotlight. Hogan didn't step aside. He even refused to job at Bash a couple years later and that's when Russo told him to go fuck himself and made Booker the champ.
And don't make it sound like before Hogan everyone wasa wrestling in gyms. Bruno would sell out MSG countless times even with out Andre on the card. Even Bob Backlund could draw big numbers with the right opponent. In the NWA Race and Flair were headlining big cards. And Flair and Von Erich wrestled in front of nearly 50,000. Hogan didn't make wrestling. He just made it more money than it would have made, but don't get it twisted, McMahon still would have been in business right now if Hogan never came. He just wouldn't have made as much money. But he would have made enough to stay around until '96 when Austin showed up and made Vince more money than anyone else.
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what happened with hogan in japan ? injuring/killing someone ?????
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what happened with hogan in japan ? injuring/killing someone ?????
Hogan and Antonio Inoki were the two finalists in the first ever IWGP tournament and according to all inside sources I've read and wrestling articles, Inoki was slated to win since he was the biggest star in wrestling history in Japan. His fame in Jaan cannot be compared to any wrestler in the US. He was as big in Japan as Michael Jackson once was in the US. And he won evey other IWGP tournament, beating Dick, Murdoch, Andre The Giant, and Masa Saito. Anyway, Hogan hit Inoki with an Axe Bomber, Hogan's finisher in Japan which was a lariat or clothesline. Inoki was hit too hard and was KOed.
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Years later, a former New Japan referee revealed that the entire incident was staged to help stir up publicity for a rematch..
June 14, 1984: Antonio Inoki defeated Hulk Hogan for the IWGP Heavyweight title
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Years later, a former New Japan referee revealed that the entire incident was staged to help stir up publicity for a rematch..
June 14, 1984: Antonio Inoki defeated Hulk Hogan for the IWGP Heavyweight title
You gotta link? because most places I read about it they call it an unplanned finish. And I still don't see why an unkown Hogan would have to beat the "unbeatable" Inoki. It really hurt his legend in Japan when he lost like that.
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The match was in 1983, by that time Hogan was popular due to his Rocky role.
New Japan Pro Wrestling
During this period of Hogan's career, he was not competing strictly under the AWA (or any) banner. A great deal of Hogan's early success was achieved in New Japan Pro Wrestling. Japanese wrestling fans were in awe of the gargantuan blond American, and nicknamed him "Ichiban" (which translates to "Number One"). Hogan first appeared in Japan on May 23, 1980, while he was still with the WWF. He would tour the country from time to time over the next few years, facing a wide variety of opponents ranging from Tatsumi Fujinami to Abdullah the Butcher. When competing in Japan, Hogan used a vastly different repertoire of wrestling moves, relying on more "scientific" (i.e., technical, more amateur style-seeming) looking traditional wrestling holds and maneuvers as opposed to the power-based (feats of strength), brawling style U.S. fans were accustomed to seeing from him. On June 2, 1983, Hogan became the first International Wrestling Grand Prix tournament winner, defeating Japanese wrestling icon Antonio Inoki by knockout in the finals of a 10-man tournament featuring top talent from throughout the world. Hogan and Inoki also worked as partners in Japan, winning the prestigious MSG Tag League tournament two years in a row, in 1982 and 1983. Also Hogan's popularity in Japan was so great, he even recorded an album there-a forerunner to the World Wrestling Federation's "Rock' n' Wrestlin' Connection" of the mid-'80's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hulk_Hogan
http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/profiles/h/hulk-hogan.html
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None of this explains that it was a work. I'm not saying you are wrong. For all I know it was, but all I've read about it was that it was an accident.
As for Hoganbeing big. Sure he wasn't an unknown but he wasn't a megastar. He didn't become a megastar until Wrestlemania in '85. Even in '84 he was just another main eventer with charisma. Remember Black Saturday?
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thanks for all the replies of what happened in japan.
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When Andre ran things, it wasn't because he was a nice guy, or stepped down to allow Hogan to be a bigger name that people liked him, it was because when Andre the Giant headlined a card, you wanted to be on that card because it would sell out. Bobby Hennen said that in the 80's, people use to look at the card there were on, and if Hulk Hogan or Andre the Giant was on that card, they'd get happy because they knew there were in for a big payday. This was in the time before wrestlers had contracts that said they make x amount a year. So wrestlers then thanked the upper card, and they knew if oneday Hogan or Andre were not drawing fans in, then they could step up, or if the ball was given to them, to step up. Even in the 90's, there was incentive to get over with the fans by shirt sales. Still, wrestlers in the 80's were thankful to the upper card. Since then, wrestlers have been resentful, and I think this causes more backstage drama than Hogan putting over friends. Back in the day, if the wrestlers saw Brutus Beefcake on the card, and he didn't draw flys to horse shit, the other wrestlers would get mad, and lets just say things were very old school then. But now wrestlers complain to the internet, but they do not step up. Since Hulkamania, the only wrestler I saw step up, and take the ball and run was Steve Austin. He got himself over being a heel, the same way Hogan did before that. Once a generation is there a wrestling star that is as big a Hogan, Austin, Andre, Gorgous George. If Austin was still wrestling, and still drawing in fans, wrestlers now would be, his not putting people over, his hogging the spotlight. But if their pay was based sololy off their gate numbers, everyone would be dying to get on a card headlined by Steve Austin. In the 90's in WCW, everyone would be trying to get on a card headlined by Hogan. They would be loving the nWo, and praising Hall/Nash and Hogan for putting money in their pockets. Instead, there was a lot of people who thought they could do better .OK Billy Kidman, what have you done since, ok Goldberg, who cares about you anymore, Hogan put these people over, he put over many people once WCW was going down the shit hole. He wasn't drawing fans in no more, he tried to put over new stars, but in the WWF they had Austin who was the big thing. Austin was beating Rock, Triple H, Angle, Austin was the man, he was the biggest draw and no one in WCW was stepping up trying to do something better. WCW fell, not because of Hogan's politics, because his politics got them to beat the WWF for over a year in the ratings and question when McMahon was going to give up, but because the WWF had made their new Hogan, they got someone who they were not trying to put over, and he got over being who he is. McMahon Sr. did make Andre, but he knew how to market him, McMahon Jr. didn't make Hogan, but he got him back from the AWA and market him well, and in the 90's he didn't make Steve Austin, but he knew how to market him to the fans. In WCW, you had cool wrestlers and characters, some would go on to be great stars, like Benoit and Guerrero, but with Austin on your roster, they are mid-card.
Also, how did Eddie get the title, because he got himself over. He was heel, and they were cheering, they turned him face and the crowd was behind him and when he was heel and involved in stupit angles, they still cheered him. Same with Angle who basically was a crazy American Nazi, and fans still supported him. That's getting yourself over. McMahon almost ruined their careers, but the connected to the fans, and got over, and I mean Eddie got his brother a job, Chavo Classic, and Chavo Sr. actually won a title at an old age. Come on, that's politics to the Nth degree. But you know what, respect what Eddie and Angle have done, because people come to see them. In ECW it was RVD, if he was the headline, people came, not to see Lance Storm. In the 80's up to mid 90's it was Hulk Hogan, from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's it was Austin, from the 70's to the 80's it was Andre the Giant. Respect them, because Hogan when Hogan didn't get the AWA title, he just went to the WWF, when Austin didn't get the WCW title, he went to the WWF, Hogan basically put AWA out of business because AWA was nothing without Hogan, they invested in older talent that couldn't out draw Hogan, Austin basically put WCW out of business 'cause he was out drawing the older talent WCW was working with. But they put themselves over. Lets see who's next to do it. We'll see who will be the next big star, because the WWE doesn't make them, they make themselves.
I agree 100%, you have a good understanding of how the wrestling business works. If you are a star, nothing will hold you back. Wrestlers say this over and over, all the oldtimers say that, but nobody listens. They think some hot shot new guy should show up and just be a star. All your greats took what they got.
It's the same in business, the people that succeed ultimately are those that just make it impossible not to succeed. We could run down the gauntlet, in any business. Bill Gates. He didn't invent the computer. He just worked so fucking hard and stole or whatever to the point where he is where he is now, donating hundreds of millions of dollars to charities, but yet all the little computer geeks hate him because they think they're more talented. Bill Gates is the Hulk Hogan of the computer world.
Puff Daddy was an assistant engineer or a fucking secretary at a record company and worked his way up to being one of the most powerful people in the rap world, or the music world in general for that case, and all the other musicians and producers hate him because they think they're more talented. Puff Daddy is the Hulk Hogan of the music world.
You can't say Puff Daddy is a piece of shit because look where he started. Nobody gave him shit, he took everything he needed to to make his life where he wanted it. Look @ Bill Gates, he made himself what he is today, nobody gave him a thing, he started with nothing and became the greatest at what he does. Hulk Hogan did the same thing in the wrestling world.
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When Andre ran things, it wasn't because he was a nice guy, or stepped down to allow Hogan to be a bigger name that people liked him, it was because when Andre the Giant headlined a card, you wanted to be on that card because it would sell out. Bobby Hennen said that in the 80's, people use to look at the card there were on, and if Hulk Hogan or Andre the Giant was on that card, they'd get happy because they knew there were in for a big payday. This was in the time before wrestlers had contracts that said they make x amount a year. So wrestlers then thanked the upper card, and they knew if oneday Hogan or Andre were not drawing fans in, then they could step up, or if the ball was given to them, to step up. Even in the 90's, there was incentive to get over with the fans by shirt sales. Still, wrestlers in the 80's were thankful to the upper card. Since then, wrestlers have been resentful, and I think this causes more backstage drama than Hogan putting over friends. Back in the day, if the wrestlers saw Brutus Beefcake on the card, and he didn't draw flys to horse shit, the other wrestlers would get mad, and lets just say things were very old school then. But now wrestlers complain to the internet, but they do not step up. Since Hulkamania, the only wrestler I saw step up, and take the ball and run was Steve Austin. He got himself over being a heel, the same way Hogan did before that. Once a generation is there a wrestling star that is as big a Hogan, Austin, Andre, Gorgous George. If Austin was still wrestling, and still drawing in fans, wrestlers now would be, his not putting people over, his hogging the spotlight. But if their pay was based sololy off their gate numbers, everyone would be dying to get on a card headlined by Steve Austin. In the 90's in WCW, everyone would be trying to get on a card headlined by Hogan. They would be loving the nWo, and praising Hall/Nash and Hogan for putting money in their pockets. Instead, there was a lot of people who thought they could do better .OK Billy Kidman, what have you done since, ok Goldberg, who cares about you anymore, Hogan put these people over, he put over many people once WCW was going down the shit hole. He wasn't drawing fans in no more, he tried to put over new stars, but in the WWF they had Austin who was the big thing. Austin was beating Rock, Triple H, Angle, Austin was the man, he was the biggest draw and no one in WCW was stepping up trying to do something better. WCW fell, not because of Hogan's politics, because his politics got them to beat the WWF for over a year in the ratings and question when McMahon was going to give up, but because the WWF had made their new Hogan, they got someone who they were not trying to put over, and he got over being who he is. McMahon Sr. did make Andre, but he knew how to market him, McMahon Jr. didn't make Hogan, but he got him back from the AWA and market him well, and in the 90's he didn't make Steve Austin, but he knew how to market him to the fans. In WCW, you had cool wrestlers and characters, some would go on to be great stars, like Benoit and Guerrero, but with Austin on your roster, they are mid-card.
Also, how did Eddie get the title, because he got himself over. He was heel, and they were cheering, they turned him face and the crowd was behind him and when he was heel and involved in stupit angles, they still cheered him. Same with Angle who basically was a crazy American Nazi, and fans still supported him. That's getting yourself over. McMahon almost ruined their careers, but the connected to the fans, and got over, and I mean Eddie got his brother a job, Chavo Classic, and Chavo Sr. actually won a title at an old age. Come on, that's politics to the Nth degree. But you know what, respect what Eddie and Angle have done, because people come to see them. In ECW it was RVD, if he was the headline, people came, not to see Lance Storm. In the 80's up to mid 90's it was Hulk Hogan, from the mid 90's to the mid 2000's it was Austin, from the 70's to the 80's it was Andre the Giant. Respect them, because Hogan when Hogan didn't get the AWA title, he just went to the WWF, when Austin didn't get the WCW title, he went to the WWF, Hogan basically put AWA out of business because AWA was nothing without Hogan, they invested in older talent that couldn't out draw Hogan, Austin basically put WCW out of business 'cause he was out drawing the older talent WCW was working with. But they put themselves over. Lets see who's next to do it. We'll see who will be the next big star, because the WWE doesn't make them, they make themselves.
I agree 100%, you have a good understanding of how the wrestling business works. If you are a star, nothing will hold you back. Wrestlers say this over and over, all the oldtimers say that, but nobody listens. They think some hot shot new guy should show up and just be a star. All your greats took what they got.
It's the same in business, the people that succeed ultimately are those that just make it impossible not to succeed. We could run down the gauntlet, in any business. Bill Gates. He didn't invent the computer. He just worked so fucking hard and stole or whatever to the point where he is where he is now, donating hundreds of millions of dollars to charities, but yet all the little computer geeks hate him because they think they're more talented. Bill Gates is the Hulk Hogan of the computer world.
Puff Daddy was an assistant engineer or a fucking secretary at a record company and worked his way up to being one of the most powerful people in the rap world, or the music world in general for that case, and all the other musicians and producers hate him because they think they're more talented. Puff Daddy is the Hulk Hogan of the music world.
You can't say Puff Daddy is a piece of shit because look where he started. Nobody gave him shit, he took everything he needed to to make his life where he wanted it. Look @ Bill Gates, he made himself what he is today, nobody gave him a thing, he started with nothing and became the greatest at what he does. Hulk Hogan did the same thing in the wrestling world.
Someone save this.. Trauma and M Dogg agree for the first time in about 3 years... wow... lol. Hulk Hogan does that to old school wrestling fans. 8)
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So what do you guys think would have happened to Hulkamania if Iron Shiek decided to take Gagne's offer and break Hogan's leg?
What if Vince decided he didn't like Hogan anymore and jobbed him out? Maybe Hogan would have walked out and joined an NWA that would acceot him with open arms. But it's alot easier to succeed whn there is competition and no guaranteed contracts. Owen Hart was as over as anybody on the roster when he came back as the black hart, but thanks to a contract that binded him to the WWF and bad booking he faded away. When Bret came to WCW he was bigger than everyone given the circumstances but after one month he was in the midcard while Hogan was hogging the spotlight. Tell me Trauma; what was Bret supposed to do to ensure he stayed over?
A star is only as big as his booking. You think Goldberg would have been as big a star with out that streak they showed us on TV week after week. It was new. It was exciting. What happened to Goldberg when the streak ended?
Only people with amazing talent and charisma can become stars, but no matter how much talent or charisma you have you can be booked to fail.
Where would Sean Combs be with out Clive Davis bankrolling Puff's talent and vision? You think Puffy could have just started his own label with out financial backing from people competing with with Uptown. You need competition if you want to strive on your own merit. If Steve Austin was about to get fired in '98 then he cold leave for WCW and WWF would have been hurt. That's what Austin did in WCW. He saw Hogan and what he was going to do to the young guys so he more or less got himself fired and made to the WWE. The reason why more people couldn't was because there were only 2 major companies to work for and only so much room on each. In computers and in music there are dozens of labels and a lot of room in the major labels for a lot of people with talent to exceed. Wrestling isn't as big. Where is Matt Hardy supposed to go and make a decent living if not in the WWE? How about RVD? If TNA was bigger then they'd go there, but for now there is only one major company and it can do what ever it wants with any wrestler because the company lives of it's own brand and not on any one wrestler.
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So what do you guys think would have happened to Hulkamania if Iron Shiek decided to take Gagne's offer and break Hogan's leg?
What if Vince decided he didn't like Hogan anymore and jobbed him out? Maybe Hogan would have walked out and joined an NWA that would acceot him with open arms. But it's alot easier to succeed whn there is competition and no guaranteed contracts. Owen Hart was as over as anybody on the roster when he came back as the black hart, but thanks to a contract that binded him to the WWF and bad booking he faded away. When Bret came to WCW he was bigger than everyone given the circumstances but after one month he was in the midcard while Hogan was hogging the spotlight. Tell me Trauma; what was Bret supposed to do to ensure he stayed over?
A star is only as big as his booking. You think Goldberg would have been as big a star with out that streak they showed us on TV week after week. It was new. It was exciting. What happened to Goldberg when the streak ended?
Only people with amazing talent and charisma can become stars, but no matter how much talent or charisma you have you can be booked to fail.
Where would Sean Combs be with out Clive Davis bankrolling Puff's talent and vision? You think Puffy could have just started his own label with out financial backing from people competing with with Uptown. You need competition if you want to strive on your own merit. If Steve Austin was about to get fired in '98 then he cold leave for WCW and WWF would have been hurt. That's what Austin did in WCW. He saw Hogan and what he was going to do to the young guys so he more or less got himself fired and made to the WWE. The reason why more people couldn't was because there were only 2 major companies to work for and only so much room on each. In computers and in music there are dozens of labels and a lot of room in the major labels for a lot of people with talent to exceed. Wrestling isn't as big. Where is Matt Hardy supposed to go and make a decent living if not in the WWE? How about RVD? If TNA was bigger then they'd go there, but for now there is only one major company and it can do what ever it wants with any wrestler because the company lives of it's own brand and not on any one wrestler.
And because of that, WCW went out of business, and Hogan was jobbing to Billy Kidman trying to correct his wrong. More so than Hogan, it's WCW fault. You should never give a wrestler creative control, and for their lack of wrestling business knowledge, they went out, the fans spoke.
Iron Sheik breaks Hogan's leg, Hulkamania never takes off, WWF is never known nationally, and the Iron Sheik is fired, and the WWF does not make the impact it once did. Instead, I think the NWA with it's Turner contract is the dominate federation, and Vince McMahon is fighting up hill with an aging Andre the Giant. There is no Wrestlemania, since everyone in the WWF admits Wrestlemania was created because of Hogan. Ric Flair is the star of the 80's, BUT, wrestling as we know it never takes off in popularity since most people want a star like Hogan, not like Flair, the same way they prefer The Rock to Chris Benoit.
Wrestlers that get burried, if they get themselves over, then they will be alright. They tried to bury some wrestlers, and the crowd still responds, and they have no choice but to push them. Hogan was a product of that. The AWA would never let him win the title, and the crowd was wanting him too. Basically, he was not getting over in favor of older stars, and that's why AWA is no more. WCW had Steve Austin, and they were not pushing him, instead going with older talent like Jim Duggan and Brotha Bruti... ha ha... and of course Hogan and Flair in the main event. The results, WCW may have won a short term war, Hogan leading the nWo to beat the WWF in the ratings, BUT, WCW is now out of business, and Steve Austin made Vince McMahon more money than any other wrestler. Blame WCW for not knowing how to run a wrestling promotion. No wrestler should ever have creative control. Vince McMahon gave it to Bret Hart, and you saw what happened there.
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So what do you guys think would have happened to Hulkamania if Iron Shiek decided to take Gagne's offer and break Hogan's leg?
What if Vince decided he didn't like Hogan anymore and jobbed him out? Maybe Hogan would have walked out and joined an NWA that would acceot him with open arms. But it's alot easier to succeed whn there is competition and no guaranteed contracts. Owen Hart was as over as anybody on the roster when he came back as the black hart, but thanks to a contract that binded him to the WWF and bad booking he faded away. When Bret came to WCW he was bigger than everyone given the circumstances but after one month he was in the midcard while Hogan was hogging the spotlight. Tell me Trauma; what was Bret supposed to do to ensure he stayed over?
A star is only as big as his booking. You think Goldberg would have been as big a star with out that streak they showed us on TV week after week. It was new. It was exciting. What happened to Goldberg when the streak ended?
Only people with amazing talent and charisma can become stars, but no matter how much talent or charisma you have you can be booked to fail.
Where would Sean Combs be with out Clive Davis bankrolling Puff's talent and vision? You think Puffy could have just started his own label with out financial backing from people competing with with Uptown. You need competition if you want to strive on your own merit. If Steve Austin was about to get fired in '98 then he cold leave for WCW and WWF would have been hurt. That's what Austin did in WCW. He saw Hogan and what he was going to do to the young guys so he more or less got himself fired and made to the WWE. The reason why more people couldn't was because there were only 2 major companies to work for and only so much room on each. In computers and in music there are dozens of labels and a lot of room in the major labels for a lot of people with talent to exceed. Wrestling isn't as big. Where is Matt Hardy supposed to go and make a decent living if not in the WWE? How about RVD? If TNA was bigger then they'd go there, but for now there is only one major company and it can do what ever it wants with any wrestler because the company lives of it's own brand and not on any one wrestler.
And because of that, WCW went out of business, and Hogan was jobbing to Billy Kidman trying to correct his wrong. More so than Hogan, it's WCW fault. You should never give a wrestler creative control, and for their lack of wrestling business knowledge, they went out, the fans spoke.
Iron Sheik breaks Hogan's leg, Hulkamania never takes off, WWF is never known nationally, and the Iron Sheik is fired, and the WWF does not make the impact it once did. Instead, I think the NWA with it's Turner contract is the dominate federation, and Vince McMahon is fighting up hill with an aging Andre the Giant. There is no Wrestlemania, since everyone in the WWF admits Wrestlemania was created because of Hogan. Ric Flair is the star of the 80's, BUT, wrestling as we know it never takes off in popularity since most people want a star like Hogan, not like Flair, the same way they prefer The Rock to Chris Benoit.
Wrestlers that get burried, if they get themselves over, then they will be alright. They tried to bury some wrestlers, and the crowd still responds, and they have no choice but to push them. Hogan was a product of that. The AWA would never let him win the title, and the crowd was wanting him too. Basically, he was not getting over in favor of older stars, and that's why AWA is no more. WCW had Steve Austin, and they were not pushing him, instead going with older talent like Jim Duggan and Brotha Bruti... ha ha... and of course Hogan and Flair in the main event. The results, WCW may have won a short term war, Hogan leading the nWo to beat the WWF in the ratings, BUT, WCW is now out of business, and Steve Austin made Vince McMahon more money than any other wrestler. Blame WCW for not knowing how to run a wrestling promotion. No wrestler should ever have creative control. Vince McMahon gave it to Bret Hart, and you saw what happened there.
Of course it's WCW management's fault more than it is Hogan's. I'm just saying Hogn hurt a lot more than he helped in WCW when it was all over.
Your vision is so skewed. Flair is nothing like Benoit as far as characters go. Flair is the Rock with a lot more wrestling talent. If Hogan never came then Vince would have signed Flair and probably put him against Piper in Wrestlemania 1. It wasn't Hogan that made the non-wrestling crowd think that event was special, it was all the celebrities. Imagine Flair vs Ali in a war of words on national television. That would have been huge. Would they have made as much as they did with Hogan? No, but they would have won the war with NWA and they would have stuck around until '97 where Austin would have become big. So either way they'd be in business right now. Flair would have been a lot bigger in New York with Vince than he was in Carolina with with Crockett.
When did Hogan exactly job to Kidman? Hogan agreed to lose a 2 on 1 match where his actual family member (by marriage) Mike Awesome did all of the work using weapons and Kidman came in at the end for the pin, but Hogan still won the pay off match at the PPV. Kidman jobbed to Hogan in the end.
AWA never burried Hogan. Let me tell you what burried; it doesn't mean push a guy like a star but keep the belt off him. It means have the guy lose to wrestler after wrestler in clean finishes, or give the guy a gimmick or angle that is so stupid it makes him look bad. I can't think of one guy that was consistently burried by a company and still remained over with the crowd that wasn't already a legend. WCW tried to bury Flair a lot of times but he was already such a star. If they teried it in '82 then he never would have became that big, unless he jumped to WWF. Which brings me back to my competition theory; with out competition the company can do what ever it wants to wrestlers and keep them down. Steve Austin was never buried by anyone. He wasn't pushed right in WCW and started off as a midcarder in WWF, but he was pushed slowly and booked strong and got over with his charisma and talent. If he wasn't pushed or booked strong then his charisma and talent would not have gotten him over because the people wouldn't see him as a threat.
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i haven't read all the posts... but do you guys see wrestling as what it is? or do you actually think it's real ??? ???
is wrestling big in japan too? i thought the US was the only country in the world....
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i haven't read all the posts... but do you guys see wrestling as what it is? or do you actually think it's real ??? ???
is wrestling big in japan too? i thought the US was the only country in the world....
Of course we know what it is. lol. No human adult thinks it's a real fighting competition. It's an artform, eventhough WWE does it's best to keep any art out of it.
It's huge in Japan. It's in a real down time in Japan but it's still as big their as it's ever been here, and at it's peak wrestling in the top 5 forms of entertainment. It was always it's number 2 form of athletics, behind sumo, until baseball became big, then it fell to number 3.