West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Addicted To Cake on June 06, 2006, 08:24:29 PM
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hes the only player to win 2 mvps and never make it to the finals. he should feel ashamed of himself. what a fuckin loser.
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lol
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leave the canadian alone let him sharish those mvp trophies cuz those r the only trophies he will ever get from the NBA.
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ur just a fuckin HATER.
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lol i was just sayin this the other day. all those years he was in dallas they made it to the confrence finals or to the 2nd round but NEVER made the finals.
he leaves, dirk's game improves (because they're not playin run-&-shoot ball anymore)
now phoenix is playin the old dallas style, and they're makin the confrence finals every year. i bet they never make it to the finals
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your just mad cuz your boyfriends (i mean the lakers) lost in the first found to them.... :P
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No, he's not the biggest looser in sports.
But the stat you wrote is a fact.
He should make a mission in his career to reach the Finals at least once.
Or he'll remembered forever as a good player but not a winner (see Charles Barkley, Malone, etc..)
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He'll also be remembered as the only one-dimensional player ever to win 2 MVPs, let alone back to back MVPs. In fact, I don't think I can name ANY player who won the MVP without playing defense, which is HALF of the game. It's a joke how someone could win it playing only 50% of the game... ::)
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He'll also be remembered as the only one-dimensional player ever to win 2 MVPs, let alone back to back MVPs. In fact, I don't think I can name ANY player who won the MVP without playing defense, which is HALF of the game. It's a joke how someone could win it playing only 50% of the game... ::)
Another fact. Props.
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I will admit he's one dimensional but your are still all hating
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I will admit he's one dimensional but your are still all hating
LOL. How am I hating? This is my honest opinion...You think a one dimensional player deserves to be the MVP? What does that say about the NBA? If I'm hating and you're showing love, then yes, I rather be hating, because in my honest opinion, it's just not right...PeACe
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I will admit he's one dimensional but your are still all hating
how? everything we said is true
Nash has never made the finals.
He is a one dimensional player.
And other players (ex: Kobe, Nowitzki) derserved the MVP more.
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Hes not as much of a loser as Kobe is....Kobe LOST the MVP, and the playoff series to Steve Nash.....LOL
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Hes not as much of a loser as Kobe is....Kobe LOST the MVP, and the playoff series to Steve Nash.....LOL
That definitely a legit angle to see it from! Dayumn!
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yesterday I was driving on Olympic Blvd. and passed the gym and I saw Marc Jackson walking on the street
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Hes not as much of a loser as Kobe is....Kobe LOST the MVP, and the playoff series to Steve Nash.....LOL
That definitely a legit angle to see it from! Dayumn!
How is that legit? Kobe is EASILY the better player, All NBA 1st Team, All-Defense 1st team, 35 ppg, 81 historic, 62 historic in 3 quarters, scoring champ, top 10 steals, etc...So saying Kobe lost to the Lakers is legit? Even though it was the LAKERS who lost? Kobe's NBDL team was one rebound away from advancing over the 2nd seeded team in the NBA...What's more legit when talking about MVP's? Your team lost! ....or.... He doesn't play defense and is pretty much a second or third option on a team like the Mavs. You choose. :-*
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it's not about who's the better player, it's about winning and losing, and the fact is this, that Nash WON 'mvp' and the first 2 rounds, while Kobe LOST 'mvp' and the first round. All circumstances put aside, what counts is the result. it's a response to the thread starter and nothing to start over a debate about who's the better player.
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it's not about who's the better player, it's about winning and losing, and the fact is this, that Nash WON 'mvp' and the first 2 rounds, while Kobe LOST 'mvp' and the first round. All circumstances put aside, what counts is the result. it's a response to the thread starter and nothing to start over a debate about who's the better player.
This isn't a debate about who GOT the MVP...we already know he got it. The debate is on whether he deserved it or not, and clearly, he doesn't...The MVP is a joke. It has become a popularity contest...How can you support it? Even your Dirk deserved the MVP way more than Nash, and even your theory of "Nash advanced" disproves Nash deserving it, because Dirk advanced...Think about it homie, Nash plays 50% of basketball...is that what it takes to be the MVP in this great basketball country?...Honestly... :-\
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Im not even holding the opinion that nash deserved it. My whole point is that he WON IT. Yes, my point is really THAT simple and shallow. At the end of the day, winners WIN and losers LOSE. Im not debating who's better, who deserved it or whatever. It's nothing to analyze. Nash won the MVP, Kobe didn't, Nash's team beat Kobe's in the playoffs. He won, Kobe lost. THE END. Winner, Loser. I know that Nash had much better players on his side of the court and all. It's not about who's really better, it's about who won, and obviously, Nash did. It's that simple.
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Im not even holding the opinion that nash deserved it. My whole point is that he WON IT. Yes, my point is really THAT simple and shallow. At the end of the day, winners WIN and losers LOSE. Im not debating who's better, who deserved it or whatever. It's nothing to analyze. Nash won the MVP, Kobe didn't, Nash's team beat Kobe's in the playoffs. He won, Kobe lost. THE END. Winner, Loser. I know that Nash had much better players on his side of the court and all. It's not about who's really better, it's about who won, and obviously, Nash did. It's that simple.
Okay...Nice point. This thread is about who DESERVED it. :D
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your just mad cuz your boyfriends (i mean the lakers) lost in the first found to them.... :P
Yea thats cuz everyone here loooooooove the Lakers no matter what, i use to like em before Kobe broke up the team, Kobe is talented but isint a difference make like Shaq sorry.
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Nash is dope but i still think Kobe deserved it more this year
(http://i6.tinypic.com/121sm79.jpg)
:D
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i use to like em before Kobe broke up the team
You dumb piece of shit...do you enjoy beeing a Sheep!?
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/9950/smal6ey.png)
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Right get at me at the nd of Kobes career and tell me how many rings he has.
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Reasons why you should consider Nash MVP a joke:
- If you could steal one player from the Suns, you know you'd rather get Amare than him.
- If you could steal a player from the NBA, you know you'd rather get 10-15 other players over him.
- In 10 years you'll argue with your homies about Kobe's 81 points game rather than one of Nash's games.
- You've seen the Mavs are in the Finals, didn't you? Their PG is Jason Terry. Get it: Jason Terry. Finals.
- You know Kobe is better than him: this shouldn't even be questioned.
- You know Nash can't defend. I know it the Suns system, but damn.. this guy really can't defend!
- You know he has never led a team to the Finals. Shit man, he has only seen them on TV! And i know you're thinking about Kobe without Shaq, but to fail when your team is the #2 in the NBA and you have home court advantage is different than doing it with todays Lakers, isn't it?
- You know Kobe sonned him in Game 4. You've never seen a fresh MVP being humiliated the way Nash was that day, admit it. It was sad.
- You know they gave it to him just cause he's white.
Now please, let's talk about basketball. Amare is the real deal. Nash is the #2 better player of the Suns.
MVP?
LMAO.
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Reasons why you should consider Nash MVP a joke:
- If you could steal one player from the Suns, you know you'd rather get Amare than him.
- If you could steal a player from the NBA, you know you'd rather get 10-15 other players over him.
- In 10 years you'll argue with your homies about Kobe's 81 points game rather than one of Nash's games.
- You've seen the Mavs are in the Finals, didn't you? Their PG is Jason Terry. Get it: Jason Terry. Finals.
- You know Kobe is better than him: this shouldn't even be questioned.
- You know Nash can't defend. I know it the Suns system, but damn.. this guy really can't defend!
- You know he has never led a team to the Finals. Shit man, he has only seen them on TV! And i know you're thinking about Kobe without Shaq, but to fail when your team is the #2 in the NBA and you have home court advantage is different than doing it with todays Lakers, isn't it?
- You know Kobe sonned him in Game 4. You've never seen a fresh MVP being humiliated the way Nash was that day, admit it. It was sad.
- You know they gave it to him just cause he's white.
Now please, let's talk about basketball. Amare is the real deal. Nash is the #2 better player of the Suns.
MVP?
LMAO.
can't argue with that
lmao @ homie who said kobe broke up the lakers. everyone keeps sayin that but has no proof of that. read phil jackson's book, he explained exactly why him and shaq left. as for derek fisher and robert horry - they got their 3 rings with the lakers but decided to go other places to get more money.
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Im the one who said that and since you read the book i guess youre right but still the Lakers should of kept Shaq istead of Kobe.
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By the sound of it, Shaquille O'Neal is one focused individual at the Los Angeles Lakers' training camp in Hawaii.
Focused on money, that is.
O'Neal is seeking a lucrative contract extension and is using the exhibition games as a forum to meet that end.
O'Neal talked about his desired extension in interviews before the exhibition opener Tuesday against Golden State. Then, in the third quarter of the game, after he made six straight shots, scored 14 points and emphatically rejected a shot by Golden State's Mike Dunleavy, O'Neal turned to the Lakers bench and yelled, "Now you gonna pay me?"
Owner Jerry Buss was seated on the other side of the court, :nawty: however. A short time later, as O'Neal was on the bench during a timeout, he turned to reporters seated courtside and mouthed the words, "Pay me."
Before the game the next night, O'Neal saw reporters in the hallway outside the locker room, rubbed his fingers together in a money-counting gesture and shouted out, "Show me the money! Show me the money!"
Under National Basketball Association rules, O'Neal is eligible to receive a three-year extension worth upward of $108 million. O'Neal signed a maximum extension in 2000.
The extension for which O'Neal is eligible is so incredibly large because he is one of the rare players whose salary was grandfathered in before the latest collective bargaining agreement put a maximum on salaries.
The extension, which would start in 2006-'07, could make him the NBA's highest-paid player in that season by $12 million to $14 million over Minnesota's Kevin Garnett, who is also grandfathered in. Garnett, however, did not demand the maximum in his recent deal and "settled" for $100 million over five seasons, even though he was eligible for more than $180 million.
The way O'Neal looks at it, he is worth the maximum.
"Last time they took care of me, we won three (championships) in a row," O'Neal said. "So, if you believe in history and how history repeats itself, then. . . . I always give my maximum. On a good toe or a (hurt) toe, I always give my maximum. And that's all I want in return.
"I want honesty and I want the truth. If they're not going to do it, I'd rather they tell me that right now, so we can move on. But I always give my maximum. So, hopefully I can get it. Do I deserve it? Yeah, I deserve it."
O'Neal said he didn't even know how much he is making now. His salary is $24.75 million.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/buck/oct03/176576.asp
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Shaq didn't want to take a pay-cut.....THE END
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OK! lol can i still like him and think Kobe may have more talent but Shaq is more dominant&?
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Im the one who said that and since you read the book i guess youre right but still the Lakers should of kept Shaq istead of Kobe.
You would've kept a 32 year old who was falling off over a 26 year old who was playing amazing basketball AND hadn't even reached his prime yet? Wow you would make a great general manager!
If they would've given Shaq that extension he DEMANDED, he would've been making $100 million at the age of 38.
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Nash is dope but i still think Kobe deserved it more this year
(http://i6.tinypic.com/121sm79.jpg)
:D
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Nash is dope but i still think Kobe deserved it more this year
(http://i6.tinypic.com/121sm79.jpg)
:D
thats some funny ass shit..
nash won the mvp props to him too bad kobe, dirk deserved it more..no one except for the media can deny that..
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your just mad cuz your boyfriends (i mean the lakers) lost in the first found to them.... :P
Yea thats cuz everyone here loooooooove the Lakers no matter what, i use to like em before Kobe broke up the team, Kobe is talented but isint a difference make like Shaq sorry.
LMAO@Kobe broke up the team...Shaq wanted to kill the Lakers and put them in salary cap hell with a ludicrous extension, Jerry Buss said no...The Kobe thing is a throw off, it's obvious the media has done a good job brain washing you... :-*
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Right get at me at the nd of Kobes career and tell me how many rings he has.
LMAO! He already has 3 and is just entering his prime!...How do you even have the audacity to use that as your argument?
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Im the one who said that and since you read the book i guess youre right but still the Lakers should of kept Shaq istead of Kobe.
LMFAO!!!! OMFG!!! PLEASE TELL ME THAT WAS A JOKE...LMAO! I don't even wanna comment on this...The biggest Shaq dickriders in the world would laugh at that statement. Your 2006-2007 LA Lakers:
PG Smush Parker
SG Jim Jackson
SF Luke Walton
PF Brian Cook
C Grandpa Snaq getting 30-40 million a year.
YES! I wish you were our GM... ::)
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Shaq didn't want to take a pay-cut.....THE END
Actually he DID take a paycut this year (although he still makes mega millions) and look where it's taken him...to the NBA Finals, Kobe and Shaq just didn't get along, there's nothing anyone can do about that
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Shaq didn't want to take a pay-cut.....THE END
Actually he DID take a paycut this year (although he still makes mega millions) and look where it's taken him...to the NBA Finals, Kobe and Shaq just didn't get along, there's nothing anyone can do about that
Yes...That's why he's a bitch. He only took a pay cut when he realized that NO ONE was gunna sign him for that ludicrous amount he wanted. When he was with the Lakers, he wouldn't settle for less than being the highest paid player ever, he thought he was worth more than he was in 1999-2000...What a joke. I'm glad he's not ruining our team, because if the Heat don't win the championship this year, he definitely ruined theirs...PeACe
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because if the Heat don't win the championship this year, he definitely ruined theirs...PeACe
and exactly how will he have ruined their yr he they dont win the championshp? i mean they did make the finals.
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I think he was talking about ruining their future due to the salary restrictions.
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because if the Heat don't win the championship this year, he definitely ruined theirs...PeACe
and exactly how will he have ruined their yr he they dont win the championshp? i mean they did make the finals.
Ummm...Did you get what I was saying? Sure they had a good year, but it's their last chance to win a championship...Shaq ruined any chance of a future for them. Wade is most likely gunna sign somewhere else within the next few years if they don't win it all, because they have no money and no substance...Only a bunch of washed up vets and a few decent role players with no cap-space, because they owe Shaq $20 million a year through 2010. YIKES!...PeACe
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because if the Heat don't win the championship this year, he definitely ruined theirs...PeACe
and exactly how will he have ruined their yr he they dont win the championshp? i mean they did make the finals.
and where is Kobe? Look if the lakers get the supporting cast for Kobe sure hes talented if not the most talented in the league to win 2 or 3 more championship, bottom line is that shaq takes pressure off guys like dwayne wade and kobe.Wade woulnt be as good wihtout shaq im not dissing kobe.
Shaq almost always gets doubled team
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because if the Heat don't win the championship this year, he definitely ruined theirs...PeACe
and exactly how will he have ruined their yr he they dont win the championshp? i mean they did make the finals.
and where is Kobe? Look if the lakers get the supporting cast for Kobe sure hes talented if not the most talented in the league to win 2 or 3 more championship, bottom line is that shaq takes pressure off guys like dwayne wade and kobe.Wade woulnt be as good wihtout shaq im not dissing kobe.
Shaq almost always gets doubled team
LMAO...You obviously haven't watched Shaq play in the last 2 years. Teams RARELY double team him anymore, if they ever do. Kobe gets double teamed and sometimes tripple teamed way more than Shaq can ever dream of. Shaq is lucky right now that Wade is carrying them, and they actually got a lot of players on that team as well...What is he playing, like 30 minutes a game? No wonder he's not injured by now...You've obviously proven that you don't pay much attention to these things and still have the nerve to throw in comments...Shaq didn't even wanna lose weight for the Lakers, he would always over-eat Big Macs and shit...Now, all of sudden he's losing weight for Pat Riley because he "told him to"...But when Buss wanted him to lose weight it's because "he didn't want to pay me"...LMFAO. Anyone who roots for Shaq is out of their mind...It's easy to see what kind of guy he is...After all, he didn't even attend CHICK HEARNS funeral, because he had some "golf" game more important to him...The guy has always been about himself, I don't want him anywhere near our organization...PeACe
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Shaq is the reason the Heat are in the finals.....I bet if they win, Shaq will get the MVP...he will be humble and say that D Wayde deserved it, but you know the Heat wouldnt be there without Shaq right now. Shaq is the boss, the Boss Playa :D
And NIK, Shaq is your daddy ;D
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Shaq didn't want to take a pay-cut.....THE END
Actually he DID take a paycut this year (although he still makes mega millions) and look where it's taken him...to the NBA Finals, Kobe and Shaq just didn't get along, there's nothing anyone can do about that
Yes...That's why he's a bitch. He only took a pay cut when he realized that NO ONE was gunna sign him for that ludicrous amount he wanted. When he was with the Lakers, he wouldn't settle for less than being the highest paid player ever, he thought he was worth more than he was in 1999-2000...What a joke. I'm glad he's not ruining our team, because if the Heat don't win the championship this year, he definitely ruined theirs...PeACe
yeah ill admit, even i thought shaq was worth more. i remember the lakers tried to trade him to dallas for nowitzki but dallas said NO!
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Shaq is the reason the Heat are in the finals.....I bet if they win, Shaq will get the MVP...he will be humble and say that D Wayde deserved it, but you know the Heat wouldnt be there without Shaq right now. Shaq is the boss, the Boss Playa :D
And NIK, Shaq is your daddy ;D
LMAO!!!! You show how much you know. Shaq will get the MVP? LMFAO. Shaq sits out 4th quarters. Wade is BY FAR the MVP on that team. It's not even a question...Come on now, even you should know that...LOL.
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Shaq didn't want to take a pay-cut.....THE END
Actually he DID take a paycut this year (although he still makes mega millions) and look where it's taken him...to the NBA Finals, Kobe and Shaq just didn't get along, there's nothing anyone can do about that
Yes...That's why he's a bitch. He only took a pay cut when he realized that NO ONE was gunna sign him for that ludicrous amount he wanted. When he was with the Lakers, he wouldn't settle for less than being the highest paid player ever, he thought he was worth more than he was in 1999-2000...What a joke. I'm glad he's not ruining our team, because if the Heat don't win the championship this year, he definitely ruined theirs...PeACe
yeah ill admit, even i thought shaq was worth more. i remember the lakers tried to trade him to dallas for nowitzki but dallas said NO!
Actually, it was the Lakers who weren't interested in shifting Shaq to a western conference team.
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Wade is the regular season MVP.....But Shaq is the playoff and finals MVP....
shows how much you know
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all you do is bitch and complain about how you think Kobe is the man.....you just bitch abou Nash taking out your boy in the playoffs and how Nash beat your boy in the MVP....and now that Shaq is leading his team into another finals, you have somethin more to whine and complain about.... ::)
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Wade is the regular season MVP.....But Shaq is the playoff and finals MVP....
shows how much you know
LMFAO! You've GOT to be kidding me man...You're joking right? Please tell me we're in a hockey thread or something. Have you even taken a look at their stat sheets in the playoffs? Shaq plays about 30 minutes a game and averages 20 points and 9 rebounds, with a despicable 40% on free throws and 4 turnovers! HORRIBLE statistics by his standards in the playoffs...Wade is running everything, playing over 40 minutes, averaging 27 points on 51% FG and 42% 3FG and avering a turnover less than Shaq! And he's a guard!!....You're fucking out of your mind, have you even seen the Heat play, or are you that much of a bandwaggon fan? You're rooting for the most selfish guy in basketball history...PeACe
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all you do is bitch and complain about how you think Kobe is the man.....you just bitch abou Nash taking out your boy in the playoffs and how Nash beat your boy in the MVP....and now that Shaq is leading his team into another finals, you have somethin more to whine and complain about.... ::)
Dude, you are close-minded...You're one of those people who go by what the media tell them. Where did I mention anything about Kobe when I was talking about Nash?
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Shaq is averaging 20 and 10 with a whopping .613 field goal %....thats huge. Plus I still think Shaq carries the team, everything goes thru Shaq and hes the most important player on the team. If Shaq plays well, the heat NEVER lose. Wade can still put up 30 and they heat will lose. All of the open jumpers that Walker, Williams, Posey and Payton are getting are becuase the ball is going inside to your daddy and the defense puts so much attention on Shaq. And Shaq just dominated and owned the NBA defensive player of the year (Ben Wallace)
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Shaq is averaging 20 and 10 with a whopping .613 field goal %....thats huge. Plus I still think Shaq carries the team, everything goes thru Shaq and hes the most important player on the team. If Shaq plays well, the heat NEVER lose. Wade can still put up 30 and they heat will lose. All of the open jumpers that Walker, Williams, Posey and Payton are getting are becuase the ball is going inside to your daddy and the defense puts so much attention on Shaq. And Shaq just dominated and owned the NBA defensive player of the year (Ben Wallace)
I don't think you know what you're talking about. LOL. Show me ONE credible source that says Shaq will win Finals MVP. LMAO. What the hell? It's already undisputedly Wade, unless Shaq does something MIRACULOUS in the Finals...Please make sense.
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either way tho we could be here and dispute it all day...this is howit went down since the trade.
Lakers - out the playoffs and a first round loss
Heat - third round and finals ( maybe even a championship)
And this we cant dispute .
Isint this a Steve Nash thread? lmao
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You dont consider me a credible source?
C'mon man ;)
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either way tho we could be here and dispute it all day...this is howit went down since the trade.
Lakers - out the playoffs and a first round loss
Heat - third round and finals ( maybe even a championship)
And this we cant dispute .
Isint this a Steve Nash thread? lmao
What's your point? Shaq isn't even the 1st option on his team, while Kobe is pretty much the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd...And yes, this is a Steve Nash thread, so lets stick to the topic. There are obviously players out there who deserve the MVP over Nash, and that's the bottom line...PeACe
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Shaq didn't want to take a pay-cut.....THE END
Actually he DID take a paycut this year (although he still makes mega millions) and look where it's taken him...to the NBA Finals, Kobe and Shaq just didn't get along, there's nothing anyone can do about that
no, shaq couldn't get along with kobe..he's always been jealous of kobe...that's how much bitch shaq has in him
______________________________________________________________________
The other players on the team wanted to make sure he (kobe) earned everything he got, that the coach didn't just give him something just because the fans wanted to see this young phenom play," recalled Del Harris, Bryant's first coach with the Lakers.
That was especially true of Shaquille O'Neal, the game's dominant young center who felt immense pressure to win championships. Each season his dislike of Bryant had grown.
"What suprised me about Shaquille during our early days in Los Angeles was how frustrated he got," said former Lakers GM Jerry West.
"He was not fun to be around. The shortcomings of our team and his teammates made him angry because he knew he was going to be judged on how much we won."
How angry?
Just months before Jackson arrived, O'Neal slapped Bryant during a pickup game at the Laker practice facility.
"It would not be forgotten," former Laker guard Derek Fisher said of the incident.
When Jackson and his coaching staff began work in Los Angeles, they were caught off guard by O'Neal's animosity toward Bryant.
"There was a lot of hatred in his heart," Tex Winter said of O'Neal. "He would speak his mind in our team meetings. He was saying really hateful. Kobe just took it and kept going."
Jackson astutely read that he faced a more severe choice in Los Angeles. The situation dictated that he could not be close to both Laker stars. So he made a logical choice, according to Winter. "Very early in our time in LA, Phil made the decision to go with Shaq. And he made it clear to Kobe and the press and everyone else that it was Shaq's team. He made it clear that he was far more interested in accommodating Shaq than Kobe. And Kobe seemed to accept this."
Winter, however, began to have concerns immediately. He said that he told Jackson that he (Jackson) seemed intent on making Bryant his "whipping boy," the player on which the coach traditionally takes out all of his frustration. Winter told Jackson that making a budding young superstar a whipping boy wasn't a good idea.
His (Kobe's) relationship with Jackson only worsened over their five years together in LA. Winter said it was made worse by Jackson's refusal to have any sort of in-depth meeting or relationship with the young guard.
At the same time, Jackson leveled a variety of public attacks at Bryant during those years. At one point, Jackson told reporters that Bryant had sabotaged his own high school games to make himself look like a star.(<--crazy how people dickryde shaq...even phil)
And the owner had no desire to meet O'Neal's demands for a lengthy extension on his $30 million plus a year contract. So the Lakers traded him to Miami (where O'Neal would later meekly agree to play for $20 million a season).
"In the final analysis, it's the coach's responsiblity to manage the team in the proper manner and not have those things happen," Winter said.
It was simply a huge mistake to not keep Bryant in the loop, said Winter. "I think Phil realises that now."
- Excerpted from the forthcoming book, The Show - The Inside Story of The Spectacular Los Angeles Lakers in the Words of Those Who Lived It. Scheduled for December release by McGraw-Hill.
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Shaq didn't want to take a pay-cut.....THE END
Actually he DID take a paycut this year (although he still makes mega millions) and look where it's taken him...to the NBA Finals, Kobe and Shaq just didn't get along, there's nothing anyone can do about that
no, shaq couldn't get along with kobe..he's always been jealous of kobe...that's how much bitch shaq has in him
______________________________________________________________________
The other players on the team wanted to make sure he (kobe) earned everything he got, that the coach didn't just give him something just because the fans wanted to see this young phenom play," recalled Del Harris, Bryant's first coach with the Lakers.
That was especially true of Shaquille O'Neal, the game's dominant young center who felt immense pressure to win championships. Each season his dislike of Bryant had grown.
"What suprised me about Shaquille during our early days in Los Angeles was how frustrated he got," said former Lakers GM Jerry West.
"He was not fun to be around. The shortcomings of our team and his teammates made him angry because he knew he was going to be judged on how much we won."
How angry?
Just months before Jackson arrived, O'Neal slapped Bryant during a pickup game at the Laker practice facility.
"It would not be forgotten," former Laker guard Derek Fisher said of the incident.
When Jackson and his coaching staff began work in Los Angeles, they were caught off guard by O'Neal's animosity toward Bryant.
"There was a lot of hatred in his heart," Tex Winter said of O'Neal. "He would speak his mind in our team meetings. He was saying really hateful. Kobe just took it and kept going."
Jackson astutely read that he faced a more severe choice in Los Angeles. The situation dictated that he could not be close to both Laker stars. So he made a logical choice, according to Winter. "Very early in our time in LA, Phil made the decision to go with Shaq. And he made it clear to Kobe and the press and everyone else that it was Shaq's team. He made it clear that he was far more interested in accommodating Shaq than Kobe. And Kobe seemed to accept this."
Winter, however, began to have concerns immediately. He said that he told Jackson that he (Jackson) seemed intent on making Bryant his "whipping boy," the player on which the coach traditionally takes out all of his frustration. Winter told Jackson that making a budding young superstar a whipping boy wasn't a good idea.
His (Kobe's) relationship with Jackson only worsened over their five years together in LA. Winter said it was made worse by Jackson's refusal to have any sort of in-depth meeting or relationship with the young guard.
At the same time, Jackson leveled a variety of public attacks at Bryant during those years. At one point, Jackson told reporters that Bryant had sabotaged his own high school games to make himself look like a star.(<--crazy how people dickryde shaq...even phil)
And the owner had no desire to meet O'Neal's demands for a lengthy extension on his $30 million plus a year contract. So the Lakers traded him to Miami (where O'Neal would later meekly agree to play for $20 million a season).
"In the final analysis, it's the coach's responsiblity to manage the team in the proper manner and not have those things happen," Winter said.
It was simply a huge mistake to not keep Bryant in the loop, said Winter. "I think Phil realises that now."
- Excerpted from the forthcoming book, The Show - The Inside Story of The Spectacular Los Angeles Lakers in the Words of Those Who Lived It. Scheduled for December release by McGraw-Hill.
Of course he was jealous of Kobe...He saw how much of a workaholic Kobe was, and how much effort he'd put in during the off-seasons, while Shaq liked sitting around gaining weight and eating Big Macs. He watched Kobe play through injuries and work extra to heal himself...He despised how much Kobe was improving, and how much he was subsiding. He couldn't handle it, he's a selfih immature bitch...PeACe
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works extra hard during offseason meaning ? allegedly rapping woman?
Why is steve nash the biggest loser in soprts, there is a lot more losers hes not even a loser hes the 2 time mvp.yeah sure others coulnt of gotten it but he did so what.
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works extra hard during offseason meaning ? allegedly rapping woman?
Are you fucking serious? LMFAO@this media puppet. No further comments needed. :-X
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GRAY: What was your reaction to Shaq saying the Lakers are his team, and everybody knows it?
BRYANT: It doesn't matter whose team it is. Nobody cares. I don't, Karl [Malone] doesn't, Gary [Payton] doesn't, and our teammates and the fans don't either. There's more to life than whose team this is. But this is his team, so it's time for him to act like it. That means no more coming into camp fat and out of shape, when your team is relying on your leadership on and off the court. It also means no more blaming others for our team's failure, or blaming staff members for not overdramatizing your injuries so that you avoid blame for your lack of conditioning. Also, "my team" doesn't mean only when we win; it means carrying the burden of defeat just as gracefully as you carry a championship trophy.
GRAY: Do you consider Shaq to be a leader?
BRYANT: Leaders don't beg for a contract extension and negotiate some 30 million [dollars] plus per year deal in the media when we have two future Hall of Famers playing here pretty much for free. A leader would not demand the ball every time down the floor when you have the three of us [Malone, Payton, Bryant] playing beside you, not to mention the teammates you have gone to war with for years -- and, by the way, then threaten not to play defense and rebound if you don't get the ball every time down the floor.
GRAY: Shaq says that you have not been a team player. Is he right?
BRYANT: That's ridiculous. I have been successfully sacrificing my game for years for Shaq. That's what Phil [Jackson] wanted me to do, so I did it. Last year Phil told me Shaq was not in physical condition to carry the trust of our offense, so he asked me to do it. But then he saw Shaq was getting upset that the team wasn't running through him, so Phil asked me to pull back and I did. This year is no different; my role is whatever Phil wants it to be. Period.
GRAY: Does that mean you will miss the opener [Tuesday] night and other games?
BRYANT: But I don't need Shaq's advice on how to play hurt. I've played with IVs before, during and after games. I've played with a broken hand, a sprained ankle, a torn shoulder, a fractured tooth, a severed lip, and a knee the size of a softball. I don't miss 15 games because of a toe injury that everybody knows wasn't that serious in the first place.
GRAY: Kobe, Shaq said if you didn't like what he had to say you can opt out and leave next season. Will you leave the Lakers?
BRYANT: I won't make that decision until the end of the season. I told Shaq last year that I was planning on opting out. He knew before anyone. I told him out of respect for what we have been through together. I thought he should be the first to know. The fact that he acts like this is such a big shock is a mystery to me. If leaving the Lakers at the end of the season is what I decide, a major reason for that will be Shaq's childlike selfishness and jealousy.
GRAY: Why not resolve this behind closed doors? Why is this so public?
BRYANT: I asked Phil on Sunday [yesterday] to say something to calm this situation down before it boiled over. But he backed away, so now here we are. I have been a bigger person every time something happened with Shaq, and I don't expect this to be any different. But somebody in this organization had to speak up, because his unprofessionalism hurt us last year, and I don't want it to hurt us this year.
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^^Kobe sounds so much more mature than Shaq, is there really anyone who doubts Shaq's childish me-first attitude? I think everyone knows, the media's just so stuck up on his nuts that they don't say anything...
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^sad part is no one will believe either of those things you two posted. i dont know what it is about kobe, but people love to hate the dude
that book sounds interesting. i gotta check that out whenever it comes out.
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that book sounds interesting. i gotta check that out whenever it comes out.
it came out in december...you should be able to buy it in your local book store ;D 8)
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yea it was good to see kobe on best damn yesturday,dudes so chill n shit,nothin like the media portrays him to be
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yea it was good to see kobe on best damn yesturday,dudes so chill n shit,nothin like the media portrays him to be
Nothing like SHAQ portrays him to be...And everyone knows the media LOVES feeding off Shaq. That's where the hate for Kobe stems from, which is why it's hard for me to understand the concept of real Laker fans cheering on this big asshole...PeACe
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^^^not sure but if im not mistaken i think he lead the lakers to 3 straight championships ::)
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^^^not sure but if im not mistaken i think he lead the lakers to 3 straight championships ::)
Sure did...And it coulda' been a lot more if he wasn't a selfish immature asshole who wanted all of the Lakers money and attention for himself.
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^^^not sure but if im not mistaken i think he lead the lakers to 3 straight championships ::)
Actually, you are mistaken , you dumb son of a bitch! :-*
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lol @ the laker dickriders turning into another Kobe thread
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You're a Queens dickrider...now do us a favor and shut your monkey ass up :-* ..LMAO @ you losers hangin a Pacific Divison banner.
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4352/kingstrophy0ae.jpg)
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i'm a kings fan,your a laker dickrider/Kobe stan theres a diffrence dumbass,now stop stalking me.
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You Queens fans have been on Lakers fans nuts for years now...Don't you think is time for you fags to get off our nuts?
And the SPurs shit on your Queens..And the Lakers shit on the Queens in the 2000, 2001, 2002 playoffs....you're better off keeping your mouth shut..you're playing yourself.
i'm a kings fan,your a laker dickrider/Kobe stan theres a diffrence dumbass
Idiot
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this is a lame ass argument...
but really, if your a Kings fan there's zero space to talk shit about any team, especially the Lakers
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this is a lame ass argument...
??? THE SHAQ KOBE THING ???
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nah I didn't read any of that, talkin about the original thread
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nah I didn't read any of that, talkin about the original thread
It's not really lame, it's the truth...
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^^^ I'll explain myself more
the thread starter made the topic
and then like every other Laker thread, the fans tryed to discuss and then the haters start the Kobe bashing, nothing changes
so in the aspect, it's a very lame argument that goes no where, no ones opinion will be altered 8)
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You Queens fans have been on Lakers fans nuts for years now...Don't you think is time for you fags to get off our nuts?
And the SPurs shit on your Queens..And the Lakers shit on the Queens in the 2000, 2001, 2002 playoffs....you're better off keeping your mouth shut..you're playing yourself.
i'm a kings fan,your a laker dickrider/Kobe stan theres a diffrence dumbass
Idiot
lol yeah the Spurs really rolled on the Kings huh you fuckin idiot,it was a close ass series and couldnt have went either way but S.A. pulled it out at the end...You got Kobe's dick stuck so far down your throat thats all you can focus on. Also show me one post where i talked shit on the lakers so all that Lakers Kings comparisons are fuckin pointless. By the way wasnt the season series tied? and the last time i checked it was 2006 you fuckin groupie.
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Nash=Fake.
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Uh, NIK's love for Kobe is scary man..........
Anyway, Kobe will likely never win another title without Shaq. WIll Nash ever win one? COnsidering what his team did this year WITHOUT one of the best in the league (Amare) and Kurt Thomas, and with losing two key players from the previous year, i think it's safe to say Nash is NOT a loser. Will he ever win a title? Possibly not. Did he deserve to win two MVP's in a row? Probably not. BUt you can't deny is unreal. Ask anybody in the leauge who they would rather play with, Nash or Kobe, and you know what the answer would be. Same with LBJ or Kobe.
KB8(24???) had a GREAT year, one of the best in history statistics wise. But the game is about more than stats, otherwise IVERSON would have a couple of chips by now.
And reallyNik, was Kobe's season this year any better than Lebron's, who was only 21? Bothe of these guys teams overachieved in the playoffs, both were incredible in the regular season.
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And reallyNik, was Kobe's season this year any better than Lebron's, who was only 21? Bothe of these guys teams overachieved in the playoffs, both were incredible in the regular season.
Well...Lebron's team DID take the Pistons to 7 games in the SECOND round...
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Uh, NIK's love for Kobe is scary man..........
Anyway, Kobe will likely never win another title without Shaq. WIll Nash ever win one? COnsidering what his team did this year WITHOUT one of the best in the league (Amare) and Kurt Thomas, and with losing two key players from the previous year, i think it's safe to say Nash is NOT a loser. Will he ever win a title? Possibly not. Did he deserve to win two MVP's in a row? Probably not. BUt you can't deny is unreal. Ask anybody in the leauge who they would rather play with, Nash or Kobe, and you know what the answer would be. Same with LBJ or Kobe.
Pop that dick out your mouth....My love for Kobe? I'm a fan, son...Quote me on one "scary" thing I've said in this whole thread, you idiot. Only people who know basketball according to what they feed off the media think like you...Close-mided ignorant fools. "Kobe will likely never win another title" but "Nash posssibly will"...You're a fuckin' idiot, man, if you think that the Suns as a franchise are even comparable to the Lakers as a franchise, you're out of your mind...With that being said, I gurantee you that the Lakers will be in the finals again way before the Suns...It's pretty much common sense, we're actually building something with the best individual talent in the league as our center-piece and the best coach ever overseeing it. This thread is about Nash not deserving back to back MVPs, and even you came in here and said he probably didn't, so shut the fuck up...I think way more people in the league look up to Kobe and/or want to play with Kobe than Nash or LeBron...LMAO. It's not even a question, Kobe is still the idol of some people in the league, you think we can say the same about Nash? You just got the medias dick so far down your throat its pubic hair is blinding you...
KB8(24???) had a GREAT year, one of the best in history statistics wise. But the game is about more than stats, otherwise IVERSON would have a couple of chips by now.
And reallyNik, was Kobe's season this year any better than Lebron's, who was only 21? Bothe of these guys teams overachieved in the playoffs, both were incredible in the regular season.
Was Kobe's year better than LeBron? LMAO! 35 PPG, ALL NBA 1st Team, ALL NBA DEFESNIVE 1st TEAM, 81 (historic moment), 62 in 3 quarters (historic moment), scoring champ, top 10 steals...Dude, do I really have to keep on going? You don't have a brain of your own, and that's what it comes down to. Kobe>>>LeBron>>>>>Nash. :-*
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And reallyNik, was Kobe's season this year any better than Lebron's, who was only 21? Bothe of these guys teams overachieved in the playoffs, both were incredible in the regular season.
Well...Lebron's team DID take the Pistons to 7 games in the SECOND round...
Cleveland won some of those games when LeBron wasn't even playing good and with some of the other players taking charge...Not to discredit him from being a tremendous player, but it's not like HE won those games, it was a team effort. An example of a player winning a game would be Kobe in the 81 performance...People forget Lakers were down 18 in the 3rd quarter, Kobe did something tremendous, he single-handedly turned the game around, brought the Lakers back in it, and gave them a win, it wasn't just a selfish act like morons in the media were tryna make it seem...That's what gets me the most, when ignorant fools like "teecee" actually buy into that shit, it's like he has no brain of his own... :-\