West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: topdogg187 on December 29, 2001, 06:42:30 PM
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okay since everyone on this board is bitchin and comparin 2001 and stillmatic i just thought we my aswell see which one is more popular on this board. In my opinion 2001 fucken destroys stillmatic. sure stillmatic may have better lyrics but 2001 has everything else like the quantity factor, the production, and on some songs like the message and what's the difference the lyrics are fucken tight as hell. I thought that the beats on stillmatic were fucken wack. a couple were aight like on rewind or got urself a gun but that bout does it for good production on stillmatic, that's why 2001 is far supurior to Stillmatic.
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2001 NO FUCKIN DOUBT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Stillmatic, easily. Stillmatic represents the ESSENCE of what real hip hop is supposed to be about: sharp, meaningful lyricism with raw story-telling ability laced over phat beats. None of the songs on 2001 can match up to conceptual masterpieces like Rewind, One Mic, 2nd Childhood, Poison, or Every Ghetto. And "Ether" is the best diss song in at least 3 years.....
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How long has Stillmatic been out ? 2 weeks . ( 1 month if you bootlegged it)
I dont see how hellrazor can make a comment like that when the album hasn't even been out but 2 weeks. Right now your just a little over-excited. That's fine , we all get overly aroused when a hott album drops.
2001 has been out for 2 years now ? And I still bump it like it just dropped. One of the most flawless albums in music history.
Im sure hellrazor and anybody else who thinks Stillmatic is a better album than 2001 will look back hmmmm 6 months from now and realize it was just a fluke. Great album = yes. Better than 2001 ? Pssshhhh Toshhh .
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Dr. Dre - 2001 5/5 CLASSIC
Nas - Stillmatic 4.5/5 NOT CLASSIC
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did you purposely leave braveheart party off of your conceptual anthems list? because god knows that song was pure genius. just playin dogg. for real, 2001 will be remembered LONNNNGGGGGGG after stillmatic
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i couldn't of agreed more with hellrazor...stillmatic represents all that is good about hip-hop, peace.
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2001 and if stillmatic ain't no classic , then blueprint is a brick dogg :o
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I think 2001 is waaaay better. I agree that stillmatic represents all that is good about hip-hop, but 2001 is still waaaaaay better. Like 10 times better.
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did you purposely leave braveheart party off of your conceptual anthems list? because god knows that song was pure genius. just playin dogg. for real, 2001 will be remembered LONNNNGGGGGGG after stillmatic
Braveheart Party is the ONLY filler song on Stillmatic. 2001 has filler tracks like Ackrite, The Car Bomb, EDucation, Pause 4 Porno, and so forth.
Stillmatic is the best album since Aquemini in my opinion. For real, I dont see how anyone can think 2001 is better than this album. Stillmatic's beats are not far behind those on 2001, and lyrically, it KILLS 2001. Matter of fact, it kills MOST albums in that department. This album is gonna bring the lyricism back to hip hop, and change the game.......just like Illmatic did in 94'. I like 2001, but ive never considered it a classic.......4/5. Great album to listen to in your ride or if you're at a party, but when it comes to what REAL hip hop is about, this album isnt even on the same PLANET as Stillmatic.......
If yall wanna like 2001 better, thats fine, but you will NEVER convince me that its a better album than Stillmatic. Not even if hell froze over.
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well notice you only named ONE song on your filler tracks the others were skits. and even then i thought ackrite is tight. it let hitt flow. and i'm not gonna argue lyricism. 2001 has some dope ass lyrics from X, hitt, and yes em. prior to this cd snoop hadn't quite had the flow he used to. but there is one thing that i could argue all fuckin day. i don't know how much you know about music production, so i'm gonna school u to some shit. dre is so much far and away better than any producer in rap. yes he is the most consistent, and most innovative. that shit is undeniable and undisputable. dre has the ability to make perfection. to say that stillmatic's beats are not far behind 2001 is absolutely ridiculous.
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i cant choose between either album but to say 2001 is not a conceptual masterpiece is false, maybe not lyrically but production wise i think it is, Dre changed tha game again wit tha production on 2001
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^^^Dre is the best producer in hip hop of all time?? Thats YOUR opinion man. That aint no fact. Guys like Primo, Pete Rock, and RZA are equally good, if not better. I consider Primo to be the greatest producer ever, to be honest with you.
As for the skits thing, yea, it was all skits, but thats the point. Stillmatic didnt have ANY wack skits. It was all dope songs [except Braveheart Party], and song for song, I think Stillmatic is the better album. Lyrically, it destroys ANY album that has come out in the last 2-3 years.
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i cant choose between either album but to say 2001 is not a conceptual masterpiece is false, maybe not lyrically but production wise i think it is, Dre changed tha game again wit tha production on 2001
I agree, but I rate lyricism and story-telling ability higher than production, though you should have BOTH in order to make a great album. 2001=GREAT production, average lyrics, average story-telling/concepts. Stillmatic=very good production, SUPERIOR lyricsism, SUPERIOR storytelling/concepts.
To me 2001 was just another west coast album about bitches, hoez, and smoking weed......I dont mind hearing that, but it gets tiring after awhile, and thats why I think the east coast makes better music most of the time. Stillmatic isnt the same old, tired ass subject matter........its something NEW.
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^^^i like this boy,, he don't give a fuck about whut people up in here be sayin , he got his own opignion n his stickin to it like a motherfucka... when i do this type of shit people be hatin on me calling me a dick rider or ignorant , but i didn't gave a fuck just like him ;)
keep goin
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don't get me wrong, primo can put together the most gutter street type shit. i love his shit. he's still not on dre's level. dre has been doin this shit for close to 20 years. he's been moving platinum units for what almost 14 years? even other producers in the game admit he's the best. think about this: NWA wouldn't have been what they were without him, snoop isn't hardly anything without him, he blew eminem the fuck up, and has dropped 2 cd's that are easily classics. we're talkin about people that are fuckin legendary, all because of dre. do you know why eminem was so quickly accepted in hip-hop? yes he's amazing lyrically, but people gave him credibilty because dre thought he was dope enough to fuck with in the first place. people knew dre wouldn't fuck with him if he wasn't tight. and i love wu. rza is a bad ass, but he's not on dre's level. dre is the best simple and plain. peace
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Primo been in the game just as long dude. Gang Starr been makin classic shit for like 12 years now [cant wait for their new one], not to mention all the classic shit he produced for names such as Nas and Jay Z among others. Dre is one of the top 5 producers ever, but I think beat for beat, Primo is still the best. There's been a few beats from Dre I didnt care for, while ive NEVER heard a beat from Primo that ive disliked. As for RZA, perhaps he's not better than Dre, but he's damn close. 36 Chambers, Liquid Swords, Ironman, Wu Forever, and the Cuban Linx album [of of the top 5 produced albums EVER in my opinion] all speak for themselves.
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i respect your opinion dogg. we just ain't gonna agree no matter how much we go back and forth. speakin of rza did u cop the new wu? if u ain't, u need to. rza definetly laid some mean shit down this time
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Yea, I got it, its pretty tight. Definatly a big improvement over the W. RZA does alot of scratching on this album, something he VERY rarely does. "Shadowboxin" [from the Liquid Swords album] is the only other song I can recall where he scratched. But he does it on like 4 or 5 tracks on Iron Flag. December 18th was a VERY good day for hip hop, one that will be remembered for a long time. Nas dropped a classic and Wu dropped a near-classic. Were lucky to see albums of this caliber drop twice a year, let alone in the same day. Damn, I miss 92'-96'............you had a classic dropping almost everyday during that era.
Anyway, no beef about the Dre vs. other producers thing, just difference of opinion. P'z
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I like Premier as well. But how many tracks can he produce with the same drum snare and scratch samples for the hook ? To be a legendary producer you gotta be able to change your style up and be innovative. Give your fans somethin different. Look at Dre from when he first came into the game all the way until now ...... know what im sayin? Thats why I cant wait til "DETOX" cuz he is gonna change the game YET AGAIN!
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I heard Stillmactic... And I heard 2001 and I know why people prefer Stillmatic... It's because we don't all have the same taste, some people prefer the East Coast Style and lyrics but I prefer the West Coast Style and flows. Some of em have good lyrics, Snoop can be good if he want to. They rap bout they give a fuck about. They rap bout hoes, money and bitches cuz that's what they care about, it aint bad... Nas rap bout things I don't care about, that's why I don't like his lyrics... They good but I dont want to hear his stuff. His beats aint my style and his flow either, his voice either So ya Nas is a good rapper but I don't feel him,, it's 5 am in the morning so im maybe talkin shit lol but thats my opinion
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Today at 5:18am
well now it's 5:21am fo me so see ya :-*
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DAMN.....of course STILLMATIC iz better lyricly than 2001 and so where lotsa other albumz dat came before it, startin" wit EM"z MMLP a coupla month after 2001"z drop ....xzibitz
RESTLESS.....jigga"z "BLUEPRINT"......juS" to name a few....
as for lyricz (which i prefer to tha beatz) 2001 waz averrage...nothin special......what made up for tha average---
------(at some pointz it waz very high lyricly...."forgot bout dre" , "WHATZ THA DIF.", "still d.r.e"...tho dre iz a shity rappa (vocally and lyricly)....shit waz written by one great lyricist....hhhmm...JIGGA... ;D)--------waz tha unbelieveable production which tellz a story of itz own......amd makes 2001 a classic.
as for stillmatic representin "all that iz good in hip hop"....yall must be talkin bout jigga"z blueprint......which in fact got that "black iz beautiful" thing going on...
stillmatic iz mos deffenetly an improvment for nas...and it iz a dicent album....but cmmon.....it ain no classic like 2001 waz
.....itz one of nasez attemptz to try and become that thug poet\lyrical masaiah dat ILLMATIC made him at tha time.....
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p.s....he makes it seem possible tho....
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well notice you only named ONE song on your filler tracks the others were skits. and even then i thought ackrite is tight. it let hitt flow. and i'm not gonna argue lyricism. 2001 has some dope ass lyrics from X, hitt, and yes em. prior to this cd snoop hadn't quite had the flow he used to. but there is one thing that i could argue all fuckin day. i don't know how much you know about music production, so i'm gonna school u to some shit. dre is so much far and away better than any producer in rap. yes he is the most consistent, and most innovative. that shit is undeniable and undisputable. dre has the ability to make perfection. to say that stillmatic's beats are not far behind 2001 is absolutely ridiculous.
amen.
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Okay.
"Dr. Dre 2001" is a classic album. Wether or not The Source gave it that 5 mic rating, it is a classic hip-hop album. The level of production that album had was on cloud 9. It changed the game, and we are still bumpin that album like a motherfucker. "The Chronic" did have better lyrics, but the raps on "2001" are still good. Eminem, Hittman Xzibit, Knoc-Turn'al did a nice job penning the album for Dre to recite.
I haven't gotten "Stillmatic" yet...but from the what I'm hearing, the reviews and a few songs...the production is nowhere near the almost perfection of "2001." It seems like the raps on "Stillmatic" blow "2001" out of the water.
So, once you see that...everything evens out, you could say that they are totally equal.
Now I can't say that, but I'll see what's up once I hear this album.
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even though i hate to agree with a teeny bopper......gayrazor is right ....stillmatic is better album than 2001...at least have the edge........
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even though i hate to agree with a teeny bopper......gayrazor is right ....stillmatic is better album than 2001...at least have the edge........
Gayrazor?? Thats getting pretty old man. Come up with something new already.
Besides, you're just bitter cuz I took you to school in that E.1999 Eternal debate, and EVERYONE on this board knows it.
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Does anyone know for sure what, "The Chronic" got?
4 or 4.5 mics?
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shit the chronic was good in lyric too doggz... man the watcher , fuck you... etc
i don't know how ya'll can talk shit about this album :o
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Gayrazor?? Thats getting pretty old man. Come up with something new already.
Besides, you're just bitter cuz I took you to school in that E.1999 Eternal debate, and EVERYONE on this board knows it.
ahhhhh...you must feel proud.....please find a life outside the net......
p.s. bone's album ISN'T classic lmao
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2001 no doubtttt.......
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Stillmatic
again, it comes down to what you like hiphop for most. beats or lyrics.
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2001 has better production but the lyrics were just on some party shit which is what the album was all about...2001 is a great album to bump in the ride while if you wanna listen to insightful lyrics you listen to Nas...Actually its hard to compare these 2 cause they are different types of hip-hop...I enjoy listening to both of them equally...
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2001 and stillmatic are the same
2001's productin outshines stillmatic's by light years
stillmatic's lyrics outshines 2001's by megawatts
and about the whole Primo VS Dre thing or RZA vs Dre or Pete rock VS Dre
Dre EASILLY wins all of them
Dre is the essence of what production is and is about (wether you're feeling his beats or not)
Primo VS Dre
Primo isn't considered a producer in ANY form ....he is a DJ mixer, none of his beats came from his own mind , they are all bits and peices of other songs. The word Producer in the music industry means to arrange notes into new and layered melodies....Primo second hands what someone else has already has produced, that's why his title is really a Dj mixer, even though he gets production credit as a producer, now i know that this makes me look like a dj premier hate...which i'm not , i love the dude, but when you take music appreciation classes and musical production classes for three year like i have you learn what is what. Dj premier is NOT a producer he's a dj mixer...he's never reall produced a song so it's IMPOSSIBLE to say he's in any way a better producer than dre....he's a better Dj mixer than him but ain't a better producer...becuase he doesn't produce. Plus no producer in Hip Hop has EVER been able to match the the quality of dre's beats from 91-95 NOOOOO ONE, even in music in general dre's catelouge within these 4 years is very hard to meet, only George Clinton, Phil Spector, Quincy Jones, John Cage (maybe), Brian wilson, and Barry White have been able to say they've had that great of production (ask any music critic)
RZA vs Dre
in all reality , beat for beat , RZA isn't touching Dre, i'm sorry if you or any one in the hip hop world feel different but ALMOST every thing rza does is sooooooooo easy to produce and reproduce, every single melody that he has made is very simplistic. The glory in his skills lays in his mixing and layering skills. The actual beats he makes are simplistic if you can tell or not .....and if you don't beleive me (if they still sell them ) go find a tab sheet of wu tang's cd's and learn how to read music...you'll be really suprised how easil you can duplicate them. If you feel RZA more than Dre....that's your opinion and i respect it,but to say RZA is better than Dre is Ludocris beacues Most of Dre's beats and melodies are VERY fucking hard to reproduce. i emphasize most becuase some of his beats like family affair and the real slim shady are easy...but as a whole Dre is better
Now hellrazor i respect your opinion ....you don't like dre, you don't have to. BUUUUUUT just becuase you don't feel something as muc doesn't mean that it's not the best. I'm not dissing you becuase ignorant only means "you don't know"....and everyone is ignorant to something (i'm ignorant to the game of soccer) but you're ignorant to the true essence of production...yes rza and dj premier provide their artists with appealing music, but the overall work behind the beats are simple. Not to mke them look bad becuase they are good music makers overall but not as great as people in the hip hop world make them out to be.
i'm just telling it how it is ....not becuase i like dre bt that's how it is
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2001 and stillmatic are the same
2001's productin outshines stillmatic's by light years
stillmatic's lyrics outshines 2001's by megawatts
and about the whole Primo VS Dre thing or RZA vs Dre or Pete rock VS Dre
Dre EASILLY wins all of them
Dre is the essence of what production is and is about (wether you're feeling his beats or not)
Primo VS Dre
Primo isn't considered a producer in ANY form ....he is a DJ mixer, none of his beats came from his own mind , they are all bits and peices of other songs. The word Producer in the music industry means to arrange notes into new and layered melodies....Primo second hands what someone else has already has produced, that's why his title is really a Dj mixer, even though he gets production credit as a producer, now i know that this makes me look like a dj premier hate...which i'm not , i love the dude, but when you take music appreciation classes and musical production classes for three year like i have you learn what is what. Dj premier is NOT a producer he's a dj mixer...he's never reall produced a song so it's IMPOSSIBLE to say he's in any way a better producer than dre....he's a better Dj mixer than him but ain't a better producer...becuase he doesn't produce. Plus no producer in Hip Hop has EVER been able to match the the quality of dre's beats from 91-95 NOOOOO ONE, even in music in general dre's catelouge within these 4 years is very hard to meet, only George Clinton, Phil Spector, Quincy Jones, John Cage (maybe), Brian wilson, and Barry White have been able to say they've had that great of production (ask any music critic)
RZA vs Dre
in all reality , beat for beat , RZA isn't touching Dre, i'm sorry if you or any one in the hip hop world feel different but ALMOST every thing rza does is sooooooooo easy to produce and reproduce, every single melody that he has made is very simplistic. The glory in his skills lays in his mixing and layering skills. The actual beats he makes are simplistic if you can tell or not .....and if you don't beleive me (if they still sell them ) go find a tab sheet of wu tang's cd's and learn how to read music...you'll be really suprised how easil you can duplicate them. If you feel RZA more than Dre....that's your opinion and i respect it,but to say RZA is better than Dre is Ludocris beacues Most of Dre's beats and melodies are VERY fucking hard to reproduce. i emphasize most becuase some of his beats like family affair and the real slim shady are easy...but as a whole Dre is better
Now hellrazor i respect your opinion ....you don't like dre, you don't have to. BUUUUUUT just becuase you don't feel something as muc doesn't mean that it's not the best. I'm not dissing you becuase ignorant only means "you don't know"....and everyone is ignorant to something (i'm ignorant to the game of soccer) but you're ignorant to the true essence of production...yes rza and dj premier provide their artists with appealing music, but the overall work behind the beats are simple. Not to mke them look bad becuase they are good music makers overall but not as great as people in the hip hop world make them out to be.
i'm just telling it how it is ....not becuase i like dre bt that's how it is
Im not a Dre hater by any means......The Chronic and Doggystyle are two of my fav albums ever, and I consider Doggytyle to be one of the top 5 best produced albums ever made [the other four albums being Aquemini, Cuban Linx, E.1999 Eternal, and Moment Of Truth]. Its just that beat for beat, im REALLY feelin Primo's shit. 2001 has great production too, but I wasnt really feelin his production for Eminem's albums, but that could be in part to me not really being fond of Eminem [thats a whole nother subject though].
But, um, yea.........thanx for spreadin' the knowledge...
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Stillmatic.
to me 2001 (much like The Chronic) slowed down after the half-way point... there was still some second half bangers but nowhere near the consistency of the first half... and i like every stillmatic joint with the exception of one.... and well.. lyrics? obviously stillmatic.. and personally i dont see why people dislike the stillmatic beats... they're good, they suit the songs and Nas well.
BigJake: you're off point saying that Primo isn't a producer when Dre has built so many of his hits around samples, whether they are replayed or not.
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2001 and stillmatic are the same
2001's productin outshines stillmatic's by light years
stillmatic's lyrics outshines 2001's by megawatts
Word the fuck up
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i think both albums are tight, but ya cant compare the albums cuz they both hip hop, but dre with 2001 tried bringin the west coast niggaz back on the amp, which he did with the usual shit about hoes etc........but it came out tight and more innovative than all others on the same topic.....classiz.....while nas and east coast cat, tryin to bring himself back on the map, used not east coast hip hop style, but hip hop overall, which is talkin about real life and shit about the streets and picked good sujbjects to rap on......again came out better tham most others...classic
but to me, ya cant compare these albums...
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bigjake: well said dude. i tried to say the same thing, but i couldn't quite put it into words. peace
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2001 and stillmatic are the same
2001's productin outshines stillmatic's by light years
stillmatic's lyrics outshines 2001's by megawatts
and about the whole Primo VS Dre thing or RZA vs Dre or Pete rock VS Dre
Dre EASILLY wins all of them
Dre is the essence of what production is and is about (wether you're feeling his beats or not)
Primo VS Dre
Primo isn't considered a producer in ANY form ....he is a DJ mixer, none of his beats came from his own mind , they are all bits and peices of other songs. The word Producer in the music industry means to arrange notes into new and layered melodies....Primo second hands what someone else has already has produced, that's why his title is really a Dj mixer, even though he gets production credit as a producer, now i know that this makes me look like a dj premier hate...which i'm not , i love the dude, but when you take music appreciation classes and musical production classes for three year like i have you learn what is what. Dj premier is NOT a producer he's a dj mixer...he's never reall produced a song so it's IMPOSSIBLE to say he's in any way a better producer than dre....he's a better Dj mixer than him but ain't a better producer...becuase he doesn't produce. Plus no producer in Hip Hop has EVER been able to match the the quality of dre's beats from 91-95 NOOOOO ONE, even in music in general dre's catelouge within these 4 years is very hard to meet, only George Clinton, Phil Spector, Quincy Jones, John Cage (maybe), Brian wilson, and Barry White have been able to say they've had that great of production (ask any music critic)
RZA vs Dre
in all reality , beat for beat , RZA isn't touching Dre, i'm sorry if you or any one in the hip hop world feel different but ALMOST every thing rza does is sooooooooo easy to produce and reproduce, every single melody that he has made is very simplistic. The glory in his skills lays in his mixing and layering skills. The actual beats he makes are simplistic if you can tell or not .....and if you don't beleive me (if they still sell them ) go find a tab sheet of wu tang's cd's and learn how to read music...you'll be really suprised how easil you can duplicate them. If you feel RZA more than Dre....that's your opinion and i respect it,but to say RZA is better than Dre is Ludocris beacues Most of Dre's beats and melodies are VERY fucking hard to reproduce. i emphasize most becuase some of his beats like family affair and the real slim shady are easy...but as a whole Dre is better
Now hellrazor i respect your opinion ....you don't like dre, you don't have to. BUUUUUUT just becuase you don't feel something as muc doesn't mean that it's not the best. I'm not dissing you becuase ignorant only means "you don't know"....and everyone is ignorant to something (i'm ignorant to the game of soccer) but you're ignorant to the true essence of production...yes rza and dj premier provide their artists with appealing music, but the overall work behind the beats are simple. Not to mke them look bad becuase they are good music makers overall but not as great as people in the hip hop world make them out to be.
i'm just telling it how it is ....not becuase i like dre bt that's how it is
well said
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BigJake: you're off point saying that Primo isn't a producer when Dre has built so many of his hits around samples, whether they are replayed or not.
actually i'm not , i didn't say your not a producer if you use samples
i'm just saying 95% of what primer uses is a sample, the bass line, guitar riff, drums, it's all a STRAIGHT lift from another song that he found in a crate. i'm not saying that's bad , but that ain't producing, that's DJ'in'
there's more than one way to sample, the way dj premier does it, the DJ way, and the production way, where you use an element but add ALL NEW elements to it, which dre does on just about every thing he samples , not all but most
i'm not saying one is better than the other but it's 2 TOTALLY different things, Producing and DJ'ing...he's not DJ premier for nothing
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these 2 albums are too differents.
both are TIGHT AS FUCK!
Is like to compare a ferrari with a lamborghini ;)
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Yea, Dre is a real producer, like Quincy Jones, Jimmy Iovine and Lindsey Buckingham. A producer isn't just makin a beat in 10 minutes and giving it to the artists and then bailing. You gotta direct, and be a composer - and mold the song. Dre does that, he guides his musicians and rappers till he feels it's right.
Most so called, "producers" don't do that like The Neptunes, and a lot of other producers we like. That is why people like Battlecat and Fredwreck NEVER get hits on the charts cause they make the tight beat, and forget to guide the artist to finish the song so that is good. We always hear these awesome beats but the raps blow...that's a big problem.
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2001 is way better than Stillimatic. Although Stillimatic aint weak.