West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: fatez on October 29, 2006, 10:51:37 AM
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(http://www.djfatal.com/ebay/RetributionBanner1.jpg)
DJ Fatal Presents: Outlawz "Retribution: The Lost Album" 10 Years Later...
Children of Makaveli, the Outlaw Immortalz brings The Lost Album to surface 10 Years Later... DJ Fatal teams up with the Outlawz to bring you "Retribution." An album recorded under Death Row Records after 2Pac passed. Uncut and Raw! This album includes all the original Outlaw members: Kastro, Young Noble, EDI, Napoleon, Kadafi, Fatal, Storm & 2Pac. Listen to samples at the myspace page:
http://www.myspace.com/outlawzretribution (http://"http://www.myspace.com/outlawzretribution")
TRACK LIST
1. Intro
2. Komatose
3. Thug Nation
4. Soulja's Story Part 2
5. What Goes Around, Comes Around
6. Retribution (Feat. Val Young)
7. Still Mournin'
8. Bless My Soul (Feat. Prince Ital Joe & Bad Azz)
9. Novakane
10. Under Pressure Part 2
11. Pass The Heat (Feat. Wack Duece)
12. Angel
13. Hold On
14. Stay Awake
15. Family Pictures
16. In God's Eyes
17. The Hunger (Feat. Wack Duece)
18. Mr. Makaveli
19. Outro
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Sooo, let me get this straight... the Outlawz can justify remixing the fuck out of a 2Pac album, but when it comes to their unreleased shit it's left "Raw and Uncut" ?!?!?! ??? ??? ??? What a bunch of fucking assholes.
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how many tracks is pac on ?
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how many tracks is pac on ?
He isn’t, they're just using him (big surprise) to sell this thing. His voice is samples on 2 songs, soulja's story and retribution. He doesn’t drop a verse or anything, it's just a marketing ploy to sell more units using Pac's name. You gotta give it to tha "Lawz" though, they've effectively turned 2pac's name into a tangible food stamp and figured out how to use his legacy into a form of welfare checks.
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This is some bullshit. Fatez you a good producer, but don't put this shit out man.... *ashamed*
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Sooo, let me get this straight... the Outlawz can justify remixing the fuck out of a 2Pac album, but when it comes to their unreleased shit it's left "Raw and Uncut" ?!?!?! ??? ??? ??? What a bunch of fucking assholes.
How are they a bunch of fucking assholes? They DO NOT OWN THE 2PAC MATERIAL THAT HAS BEEN RELEASED. Afeni or Suge do what the fuck they want to do to the tracks and have Tha Outlawz participate in it if they want.
This album is one they have the rights to do whatever with, which they got the blessing from Suge to put out untouched. Get the facts right.
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Sooo, let me get this straight... the Outlawz can justify remixing the fuck out of a 2Pac album, but when it comes to their unreleased shit it's left "Raw and Uncut" ?!?!?! ??? ??? ??? What a bunch of fucking assholes.
How are they a bunch of fucking assholes? They DO NOT OWN THE 2PAC MATERIAL THAT HAS BEEN RELEASED. Afeni or Suge do what the fuck they want to do to the tracks and have Tha Outlawz participate in it if they want.
This album is one they have the rights to do whatever with, which they got the blessing from Suge to put out untouched. Get the facts right.
Own it? No they don't, that's correct. Participate in destroying it for their own gain? Yes, guilty on all counts. You tell me True or false:
1) The Outlawz re-record their verses on DECADE OLD posthumous 2pac records to keep themselves relevant?
2) The Outlawz choose to guest appear on posthumous 2pac tracks (THEY DID NOT ORIGINALLY RECORD VERSES FOR) for a check?
3) The Outlawz (EDI) have remixed posthumous 2pac records so he can get a check for the production (when he didn’t do the original)?
4) The Outlawz (EDI primarily) has a great deal of involvement and control over the creative direction of 2pac albums?
5) The Outlawz have actually removed 2PAC!! (not to mention the countless other original artists including but not exclusive to kadafi, fatal, daz, kurupt, nuttso, etc.) from records to make room for their shitty newly recorded verses?
6) The Outlawz denied needing 2pac as a crutch when releasing "ride wit us or collide wit us" but when sales sucked they needed his appearance to sell "novakane."?
7) Fatal (of the Outlawz) has publicly said the Outlawz as a group (himself included) has failed 2pac and are fucking up his legacy by not repping him right?
8 ) The Outlawz have personally vouched (on record, see kastro vouching for T.I.) for artists who never knew 2pac to appear on posthumous 2pac records? (quid pro quo?)
9) The sole purpose of the group “The Outlawz” was to hold Pac down as support. And in his absence they’ve instead used 2pac as support… for their career aspirations and monetary needs.
10) The Outlawz subsidize their entire rap career on 2pac's name and legacy?
If you answer anything but yes to those questions you are either grossly misinformed and need to educate yourself before getting deeper in this convo, or, you are a dickryder who ignores truth in favor what you would like to be truth. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. And those ARE the facts, so maybe you should get them straight.
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Own it? No they don't, that's correct. Participate in destroying it for their own gain? Yes, guilty on all counts. You tell me True or false:
1) The Outlawz re-record their verses on DECADE OLD posthumous 2pac records to keep themselves relevant?
2) The Outlawz choose to guest appear on posthumous 2pac tracks (THEY DID NOT ORIGINALLY RECORD VERSES FOR) for a check?
3) The Outlawz (EDI) have remixed posthumous 2pac records so he can get a check for the production (when he didn’t do the original)?
4) The Outlawz (EDI primarily) has a great deal of involvement and control over the creative direction of 2pac albums?
5) The Outlawz have actually removed 2PAC!! (not to mention the countless other original artists including but not exclusive to kadafi, fatal, daz, kurupt, nuttso, etc.) from records to make room for their shitty newly recorded verses?
6) The Outlawz denied needing 2pac as a crutch when releasing "ride wit us or collide wit us" but when sales sucked they needed his appearance to sell "novakane."?
7) Fatal (of the Outlawz) has publicly said the Outlawz as a group (himself included) has failed 2pac and are fucking up his legacy by not repping him right?
8 ) The Outlawz have personally vouched (on record, see kastro vouching for T.I.) for artists who never knew 2pac to appear on posthumous 2pac records? (quid pro quo?)
9) The sole purpose of the group “The Outlawz” was to hold Pac down as support. And in his absence they’ve instead used 2pac as support… for their career aspirations and monetary needs.
10) The Outlawz subsidize their entire rap career on 2pac's name and legacy?
If you answer anything but yes to those questions you are either grossly misinformed and need to educate yourself before getting deeper in this convo, or, you are a dickryder who ignores truth in favor what you would like to be truth. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. And those ARE the facts, so maybe you should get them straight.
You're right about those facts, HOWEVER that doesn't change the fact that they do not own any track that 2pac is featured on. Tha outlawz say that shit because for the most part, THEY DON'T CONTROL THE MATERIAL. If Tha Outlawz had some ownership rights to the songs, then they could have a say in how its released, but because they were young in the game and probably signed some fucked up contracts in the beginning, they don't own any of the material, thus can't do anything to block the releases.
Suge was generous enough to give Tha Outlawz their DR album to leak so they have some control as to what that record sounds like. But Afeni has proven that she could rape a Pac record, and Tha Outlawz are forced to defend it because if they speak out against Pac material, they could be replaced by Mike Jones and Paul Wall.
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did this leak yet ?
pac or no pac i wanna hear this uncut shit
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this could be pretty dope
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Sooo, let me get this straight... the Outlawz can justify remixing the fuck out of a 2Pac album, but when it comes to their unreleased shit it's left "Raw and Uncut" ?!?!?! ??? ??? ??? What a bunch of fucking assholes.
How are they a bunch of fucking assholes? They DO NOT OWN THE 2PAC MATERIAL THAT HAS BEEN RELEASED. Afeni or Suge do what the fuck they want to do to the tracks and have Tha Outlawz participate in it if they want.
This album is one they have the rights to do whatever with, which they got the blessing from Suge to put out untouched. Get the facts right.
Own it? No they don't, that's correct. Participate in destroying it for their own gain? Yes, guilty on all counts. You tell me True or false:
1) The Outlawz re-record their verses on DECADE OLD posthumous 2pac records to keep themselves relevant?
2) The Outlawz choose to guest appear on posthumous 2pac tracks (THEY DID NOT ORIGINALLY RECORD VERSES FOR) for a check?
3) The Outlawz (EDI) have remixed posthumous 2pac records so he can get a check for the production (when he didn’t do the original)?
4) The Outlawz (EDI primarily) has a great deal of involvement and control over the creative direction of 2pac albums?
5) The Outlawz have actually removed 2PAC!! (not to mention the countless other original artists including but not exclusive to kadafi, fatal, daz, kurupt, nuttso, etc.) from records to make room for their shitty newly recorded verses?
6) The Outlawz denied needing 2pac as a crutch when releasing "ride wit us or collide wit us" but when sales sucked they needed his appearance to sell "novakane."?
7) Fatal (of the Outlawz) has publicly said the Outlawz as a group (himself included) has failed 2pac and are fucking up his legacy by not repping him right?
8 ) The Outlawz have personally vouched (on record, see kastro vouching for T.I.) for artists who never knew 2pac to appear on posthumous 2pac records? (quid pro quo?)
9) The sole purpose of the group “The Outlawz” was to hold Pac down as support. And in his absence they’ve instead used 2pac as support… for their career aspirations and monetary needs.
10) The Outlawz subsidize their entire rap career on 2pac's name and legacy?
If you answer anything but yes to those questions you are either grossly misinformed and need to educate yourself before getting deeper in this convo, or, you are a dickryder who ignores truth in favor what you would like to be truth. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. And those ARE the facts, so maybe you should get them straight.
Holy fuck that was on point. I feel like quoting that on OneNation forums...
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this could be pretty dope
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I'm not sure I understand what all the bitching is about here. While some of the points about the retail 2pac albums are valid, it seems like the argument is that since the 2pac tracks aren't left OG, the Outlawz tracks shouldn't be left that way either. Everyone knows that the fans would prefer that everything be left the way it was originally recorded (at least for the most part), but the fact of the matter is that the people in charge of the Outlawz projects are not the same ones making the creative decisions on the 2pac albums. I don't like all the alterations to the songs either, but I'm not going to ask the Outlawz to go back and crappy up their own songs on this album so it matches the last few 2pac albums in suckiness content. That's just dumb.
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I'm not sure I understand what all the bitching is about here. While some of the points about the retail 2pac albums are valid, it seems like the argument is that since the 2pac tracks aren't left OG, the Outlawz tracks shouldn't be left that way either. Everyone knows that the fans would prefer that everything be left the way it was originally recorded (at least for the most part), but the fact of the matter is that the people in charge of the Outlawz projects are not the same ones making the creative decisions on the 2pac albums. I don't like all the alterations to the songs either, but I'm not going to ask the Outlawz to go back and crappy up their own songs on this album so it matches the last few 2pac albums in suckiness content. That's just dumb.
I agree, my original contention was that:
1) This Outlawz album is being advertised as “Raw and Uncut”.. “Original” which indicates that they recognize that to be a strong selling point or else they wouldn’t say it. It would lead one to believe that they (outlawz) didn’t want people to think it was newly recorded material because it wouldn’t sell as well. Now, I ask why is it that the Outlawz recognize the importance of keeping their dated material authentic and “raw and uncut” but when it comes time to re-record decade old 2pac records re-recording verses, adding new (previously nonexistent) verses and removing other people (specifically 2pac, fatal and kadafi) is ok? It’s already been established that the Outlawz ARE in control of making those decisions so why would they do it? Because they get a check every time they do and thats the only real reason it happends to begin with. Hey, if a song originally features 2pac, fatal and kadafi then the Lawz come in, do some recording and editing work and it now features 2pac, napolean, edi, kastro and young noble well guess what? Thats 4 new checks + points they didnt have before. Keeping that 2pac record "Raw and Uncut" would have ment they get no doe.
2) This album is being advertised as “featuring 2pac” but it doesn’t actually feature 2pac. It features a sample of his voice on two different songs. Ergo my 2nd point that I’m sick and tired of these pigmies using 2pac to sell everything. They use his name to sell their own records and when it comes time for his stuff they use it as an opportunity for all of them (what’s left) to get exposure and keep themselves relevant. They record new hooks, record new verses, ad-libs, remove fatal, kadafi (and occasionally Pac), and for what? For Pac??? Yeah right, they do it for money and exposure because they don’t care and they are just out for themselves.
I’m not saying the Outlawz should take the same motos operandi on this album as they have on recent 2pac records all I’m trying to do is point out the blatant hypocrisy when you contrast what they do for themselves and what they “do” for 2pac. Look, for years all we’ve been hearing from The Outlawz (EDI and Kastro) is that “hey, these unreleased 2pac records are dated, they sound too old, we need to update verses and production to make them sell.” That’s the excuse we’ve been given since Still I Rise. Now when it comes to these unreleased Outlawz records where is that mentality now? I’ll tell you where it is, it’s out the fucking window because it is BULLSHIT. They updated those 2pac records with new verses and hooks and beats (EDI produced) because there was money in it, period. And that’s all they care about, money.
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Efrain, you seem like a hater. Let the Outlawz eat. Why hate on another mans paper?
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Efrain, you seem like a hater. Let the Outlawz eat. Why hate on another mans paper?
Another mans paper?? First off, all for all intents and purposes musicians are in the service industry buddy, they answer to the consumer.
Second, letting the "Outlawz eat" means they literally rape and pillage another deceased mans legacy. And lastly, your point is what? I should stop "hattin" and let the Outlawz participate in destroying the work of one of the most prolific talents of the last century.. 'Cause they gettin paper'?
lol, are you serious?
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Uncut, untouched, unedited, unaltered???
This is worth getting... 8)
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Efrain,
I actually do agree with what you're saying about it being misleading to advertise that Tupac is on this Outlaw album. This album was recorded in 1997. Which means that while it was originally recorded for Death Row, it was recorded after 2pac passed away. I think he is one some interludes on the album in the form of interviews, but there are no verses from him.
On the other hand, I disagree that the Outlawz have creative control over these projects. One exception would be that the Outlawz did agree to remove Fatal's verses from "Still I Rise." But by and large, the Outlawz can't tell Amaru how to release these tracks. Interscope doesn't think that 2pac's music is going to sell what they want it to without contemporary artists featured. So the scenario is more like, if the Outlawz want anything to do with future 2pac releases they have to show up and record new verses, and if they're lucky a couple of them might make the cut. Take the newest album for instance. I think "Pac's Life' has maybe two tracks with the current Outlaw roster. The rest is other artists. If the Outlawz really had creative control of these projects, I'm sure they'd put themselves on more than two tracks.
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Efrain,
I actually do agree with what you're saying about it being misleading to advertise that Tupac is on this Outlaw album. This album was recorded in 1997. Which means that while it was originally recorded for Death Row, it was recorded after 2pac passed away. I think he is one some interludes on the album in the form of interviews, but there are no verses from him.
On the other hand, I disagree that the Outlawz have creative control over these projects. One exception would be that the Outlawz did agree to remove Fatal's verses from "Still I Rise." But by and large, the Outlawz can't tell Amaru how to release these tracks. Interscope doesn't think that 2pac's music is going to sell what they want it to without contemporary artists featured. So the scenario is more like, if the Outlawz want anything to do with future 2pac releases they have to show up and record new verses, and if they're lucky a couple of them might make the cut. Take the newest album for instance. I think "Pac's Life' has maybe two tracks with the current Outlaw roster. The rest is other artists. If the Outlawz really had creative control of these projects, I'm sure they'd put themselves on more than two tracks.
umm, doesnt edi and kastro have creative control on the pac albums? unless they changed it recently...
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Efrain, you seem like a hater. Let the Outlawz eat. Why hate on another mans paper?
Another mans paper?? First off, all for all intents and purposes musicians are in the service industry buddy, they answer to the consumer.
Second, letting the "Outlawz eat" means they literally rape and pillage another deceased mans legacy. And lastly, your point is what? I should stop "hattin" and let the Outlawz participate in destroying the work of one of the most prolific talents of the last century.. 'Cause they gettin paper'?
lol, are you serious?
They are answering to the fans. Thats why they are releasing this album in its original form. Yeah so they say Pac is on the album, thats called marketing. Outlawz have nothing without Pac. Again they do answer to the fans by recording verses for the Pac albums. Whiney fans like yourself call for the original collaborators so they answer your wish. But as a hater you are never satisfied. Are you supporting their projects with dead prez? If not how else do you expect them to eat? This why you are having on another mans paper. The same reason you would want the Outlawz, the Big Sykes, the Spice 1s on the album: Originality. Thats why Pac is attached to the album. So stop hating.
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On the other hand, I disagree that the Outlawz have creative control over these projects. One exception would be that the Outlawz did agree to remove Fatal's verses from "Still I Rise." But by and large, the Outlawz can't tell Amaru how to release these tracks. Interscope doesn't think that 2pac's music is going to sell what they want it to without contemporary artists featured. So the scenario is more like, if the Outlawz want anything to do with future 2pac releases they have to show up and record new verses, and if they're lucky a couple of them might make the cut. Take the newest album for instance. I think "Pac's Life' has maybe two tracks with the current Outlaw roster. The rest is other artists. If the Outlawz really had creative control of these projects, I'm sure they'd put themselves on more than two tracks.
That's EXACTLY what I have been saying. Afeni (and Suge to an extent) have ALL THE CREATIVE CONTROL so Tha outlawz are in a psoition where they are forced to go with what's happemning or risk not being involved
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Let's talk about MUSIC. The album is pretty good, i've heard it twice and it's a good album. A lot of tracks already leaked during those years, but 4-5 are "fresh" (i mean unleaked) and are tight. Give it a try: it's Outlawz to the fullest.
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On the other hand, I disagree that the Outlawz have creative control over these projects. One exception would be that the Outlawz did agree to remove Fatal's verses from "Still I Rise." But by and large, the Outlawz can't tell Amaru how to release these tracks. Interscope doesn't think that 2pac's music is going to sell what they want it to without contemporary artists featured. So the scenario is more like, if the Outlawz want anything to do with future 2pac releases they have to show up and record new verses, and if they're lucky a couple of them might make the cut. Take the newest album for instance. I think "Pac's Life' has maybe two tracks with the current Outlaw roster. The rest is other artists. If the Outlawz really had creative control of these projects, I'm sure they'd put themselves on more than two tracks.
That's EXACTLY what I have been saying. Afeni (and Suge to an extent) have ALL THE CREATIVE CONTROL so Tha outlawz are in a psoition where they are forced to go with what's happemning or risk not being involved
Suge got nothing to do with pac's shit since his death so stop putting his name everywhere
And to the people that don't know, it's only mixtape for a quick buck, they will get more money from pac's shit
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On the other hand, I disagree that the Outlawz have creative control over these projects. One exception would be that the Outlawz did agree to remove Fatal's verses from "Still I Rise." But by and large, the Outlawz can't tell Amaru how to release these tracks. Interscope doesn't think that 2pac's music is going to sell what they want it to without contemporary artists featured. So the scenario is more like, if the Outlawz want anything to do with future 2pac releases they have to show up and record new verses, and if they're lucky a couple of them might make the cut. Take the newest album for instance. I think "Pac's Life' has maybe two tracks with the current Outlaw roster. The rest is other artists. If the Outlawz really had creative control of these projects, I'm sure they'd put themselves on more than two tracks.
That's EXACTLY what I have been saying. Afeni (and Suge to an extent) have ALL THE CREATIVE CONTROL so Tha outlawz are in a psoition where they are forced to go with what's happemning or risk not being involved
Suge got nothing to do with pac's shit since his death so stop putting his name everywhere
And to the people that don't know, it's only mixtape for a quick buck, they will get more money from pac's shit
Even if Pac isn't on it I'd rather spend my money on this mixtape with all OG material than any of the "new" Pac albums.
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On the other hand, I disagree that the Outlawz have creative control over these projects. One exception would be that the Outlawz did agree to remove Fatal's verses from "Still I Rise." But by and large, the Outlawz can't tell Amaru how to release these tracks. Interscope doesn't think that 2pac's music is going to sell what they want it to without contemporary artists featured. So the scenario is more like, if the Outlawz want anything to do with future 2pac releases they have to show up and record new verses, and if they're lucky a couple of them might make the cut. Take the newest album for instance. I think "Pac's Life' has maybe two tracks with the current Outlaw roster. The rest is other artists. If the Outlawz really had creative control of these projects, I'm sure they'd put themselves on more than two tracks.
That's EXACTLY what I have been saying. Afeni (and Suge to an extent) have ALL THE CREATIVE CONTROL so Tha outlawz are in a psoition where they are forced to go with what's happemning or risk not being involved
Suge got nothing to do with pac's shit since his death so stop putting his name everywhere
And to the people that don't know, it's only mixtape for a quick buck, they will get more money from pac's shit
Even if Pac isn't on it I'd rather spend my money on this mixtape with all OG material than any of the "new" Pac albums.
I'd rather spend my money on blank cd than Outlaw cd
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yall sound like some bitches . its just music
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Young Noble has posted on the Outlawz forum that thay have no say in the final cut on any of 2pac shit!! They get asked to drop some verses and EDI has done some
tracks but that about it!! He said they make suggestions but its totally up 2 Afini what goes down!! As for this album they prob just got the right to the album when D.R
went bust. And since heaps of fans hate the fact that 2pacs music is gettin fucked over they just wanted to drop it at it was recorded!! 8)
Peace