West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: eS El Duque on January 22, 2007, 04:51:58 AM
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By Bill Simmons
Page 2
After one of the greatest victories in Patriots history, after one of the defining Sundays of the Belichick-Brady Era, after an absolute roller-coaster ride of a win, after one of the more memorable they-had-absolutely-no-business-winning-that-thing games in recent memory, I turned the television off, pulled off an awkward high-five with my father and waited for the phone to ring.
And I waited.
And I waited.
Nothing. None of my friends called. My mom never called. None of my editors called. I even checked the ringer on our phone to make sure it was working. Yup. It was working. I jumped online and only two friends had sent along their congratulations (mainly because they had both wagered on the Pats). That was it. I briefly zoomed through reader e-mails and was shocked to see the same three themes over and and over again: either "You guys are so freaking lucky," "The Chargers freaking choked" or "Just kill me, now I have to sit through another freaking week of Pats-Colts hype."
At this point, I was starting to get bummed out. How could people not appreciate an undermanned, banged-up underdog that persevered simply by playing well together, by being well-coached and well-prepared, by pulling off all the Little Things and by believing in one another and steadfastly trusting they could pull out any close game? How could people not appreciate Troy Brown's supernatural strip of Marlon McCree (one of the greatest heads-up plays in Boston sports history), or Brady's slogging through a dog-crap game and having the balls to zing that ridiculously clutch throw to Reche Caldwell on the winning drive? How could they fail to be impressed that Belichick and the Pats knocked off a 16-1 team, a 16-2 team, a 15-3 team, a 14-2 team, a 14-3 team and a 14-4 team over the past five Januarys?
Then I realized something horrible.
Wait a second ... am I rooting for the football version of the Yankees?
I felt like Steve Martin realizing he was white in "The Jerk." And the thing is, I could see this coming for three years. People expect the Patriots to pull out close games. They're bored of watching it happen. They're tired of Patriots players and fans playing the "nobody believed in us" card. They're tired of writers and talking heads breaking out the popsicles for Brady and Belichick every January. It's becoming a formula -- nobody thinks the Pats can pull it off, the odds are impossible, MY GOD THEY DID IT AGAIN! -- which is unfortunate because formulas become boring pretty quickly.
Still, if the Pats really have turned into the football Yankees, then everyone outside of New England believes that ...
A. Rooting for the Patriots is like rooting for the house in blackjack.
B. An entire generation of fledgling NFL fans is being raised to root against them as we speak.
Just writing those last two sentences gave me the Manning Face. How could this be? How did we get here?
Like every other Boston fan, I grew up hating the Yankees, Canadiens, Steelers and Cowboys. My teams always lost, those teams always won, and I despised them with every fiber in my body. When our luck changed and the Celtics started competing for NBA titles again -- even winning three -- America never galvanized against them because Bird was so popular. Only recently did everyone come to loathe one of my teams: the post-2004 Red Sox, with the oversaturation of the "We finally did it!" angle. And I can't blame them. Looking back, everything after October '04 spiralled out of control faster than the street brawl in "Anchorman." The celebration carried on too long, too much was written (yes, I include myself), too many people had too much to say, bandwagon fans oozed out of the woodwork, and by the time everything was said and done, I think Curt Schilling killed a guy.
So yes, I can see how America turned on the Sox. But the Patriots??? I keep thinking of the scene in "Godfather: Part II" when Michael's sister urges him to forgive Fredo and calls Fredo "sweet and helpless." Umm, that was the Patriots! For like 40 years! As I have detailed in the past, they were always the undisputed black sheep of the Boston sports scene. At no point from 1960 to 2001 did any Patriots fan EVER think to himself, "Some day, this will all be worth it ... we're going to hire the best coach alive, find the best big-game QB alive, win three Super Bowls, become known as 'the team that just keeps winning,' break the hearts of fans across the league and, eventually, we'll turn into first-class villains and everyone will hate us and complain that we won't go away." That never happened. We were more worried that the Patriots would actually go away, that they'd bolt for another city (like L.A. or St. Louis) and never come back.
Now we're on six years of football euphoria. And I get the part where the outside world is ready for another team, because that's the way our society works now: We embrace something new, digest it, beat it into the ground and move on to something else. One minute, "Borat" is the greatest comedy of all-time; the next minute, it's overrated. One minute, everyone loves "Lost"; the next minute, we're wondering if it jumped the shark. One minute, everyone loves The Killers; the next minute, they're self-important sellouts. It's the Everything Sucks Era. We spend an inordinate amount of time bitching about everyone else. Nobody's good, nobody's worthwhile and everybody needs to go away. That's the prevailing theme. And after their third Super Bowl victory, the Patriots entered the "all right, you guys can go away now, you've ceased to be interesting" stage of their run, where we've been stuck for the past two seasons. I'm sure the players and coaches don't care, but for the fans, it's been bittersweet and even a little discouraging. If you can't appreciate THIS team, even as an impartial observer, what does that say about the future of sports?
The rest at http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070119
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new englands payroll is not 100000000000000000000000000000000 times more than most of the teams in the NFL.
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Nope. They're just the New England Patriots.
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new englands payroll is not 100000000000000000000000000000000 times more than most of the teams in the NFL.
i think you didn't read any of it
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new englands payroll is not 100000000000000000000000000000000 times more than most of the teams in the NFL.
Might wanna actually read it first.....
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
It's hard to hate the Pats but easy to hate Brady. He's Mr. Hollywood and he gets exponentionally more praise than anyone else on that team. His commercials never have anything to do Football. H ealso sounded like a baby during the press conference. I'd understand it if he had never won, but after 3 Superbowl rings and Peyton finally getting trough you you'd think he could give a little blessing and be glad to be part of such a great and historic game. If Manning had won 3 with the colts and the Pats had finally won I'd be good for Brady and have rooted for him.
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LMAO at talking bout Bradys commercials. You can't watch TV without seeing Manning in 4 commercials.
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LMAO at talking bout Bradys commercials. You can't watch TV without seeing Manning in 4 commercials.
"His commercials never have anything to do with Football".
That's what I said. Every Manning commericial uses the game of Football to sell the product. It sells the product, the game of football and Manning at the same time. I was saying that Brady's commercials are about his "good looks" and I was pecifically thinking of his new one about cologne or whatever it's about.
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
see i hate the pats and the colts... but i rooted for NE, cuz i really fuckin hate manning. period
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
i hate the pats because of that charles woodson play a few years ago......if that call goes the raiders' favor, the raiders are in the superbowl
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new englands payroll is not 100000000000000000000000000000000 times more than most of the teams in the NFL.
i think you didn't read any of it
new englands payroll is not 100000000000000000000000000000000 times more than most of the teams in the NFL.
Might wanna actually read it first.....
;D....
my fault fellas. :grumpy:
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
see i hate the pats and the colts... but i rooted for NE, cuz i really fuckin hate manning. period
You got something against talent?
I may hate the praise Brady gets but I don't actually hate him as a player (and obviously not as a person since I don't know him). He's a great QB, I just don't think he's the greatest playing right now because I think Peyton is, but I have no problem with anyone saying Brady is number 2.
Why do you hate Manning?
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
see i hate the pats and the colts... but i rooted for NE, cuz i really fuckin hate manning. period
You got something against talent?
I may hate the praise Brady gets but I don't actually hate him as a player (and obviously not as a person since I don't know him). He's a great QB, I just don't think he's the greatest playing right now because I think Peyton is, but I have no problem with anyone saying Brady is number 2.
Why do you hate Manning?
You shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Brady is #1, just like you shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Manning is #1, Shit this year IMO Brees was the best...
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
see i hate the pats and the colts... but i rooted for NE, cuz i really fuckin hate manning. period
You got something against talent?
I may hate the praise Brady gets but I don't actually hate him as a player (and obviously not as a person since I don't know him). He's a great QB, I just don't think he's the greatest playing right now because I think Peyton is, but I have no problem with anyone saying Brady is number 2.
Why do you hate Manning?
You shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Brady is #1, just like you shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Manning is #1, Shit this year IMO Brees was the best...
I do think Brees was the best this year. I think Manning is the best of the era. If I think Manning is better than Brady than why wouldn't I have a problem with people saying he's #1. I think both Favre and Young were better than Aikman in the previous era, and Kelly and Elway were just as good in my opinion, yet Aikman is the only one with 3 Superbowl rings. I'd have a problem with someone saying Aikman was the best of his era, just like I do when someone says Brady. I think Marino was the best QB of the era before that followed by Montana and Elway, because I think Montana would have been exposed as hell playing on Miami, and in the 1 Superbowl against eachother Miami couldn't run to save their lives and San Frans Defense was like a killing machine. I remember seeing a tape of that game and they just kept coming at Marino from all sides.
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
see i hate the pats and the colts... but i rooted for NE, cuz i really fuckin hate manning. period
You got something against talent?
I may hate the praise Brady gets but I don't actually hate him as a player (and obviously not as a person since I don't know him). He's a great QB, I just don't think he's the greatest playing right now because I think Peyton is, but I have no problem with anyone saying Brady is number 2.
Why do you hate Manning?
You shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Brady is #1, just like you shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Manning is #1, Shit this year IMO Brees was the best...
I do think Brees was the best this year. I think Manning is the best of the era. If I think Manning is better than Brady than why wouldn't I have a problem with people saying he's #1. I think both Favre and Young were better than Aikman in the previous era, and Kelly and Elway were just as good in my opinion, yet Aikman is the only one with 3 Superbowl rings. I'd have a problem with someone saying Aikman was the best of his era, just like I do when someone says Brady. I think Marino was the best QB of the era before that followed by Montana and Elway, because I think Montana would have been exposed as hell playing on Miami, and in the 1 Superbowl against eachother Miami couldn't run to save their lives and San Frans Defense was like a killing machine. I remember seeing a tape of that game and they just kept coming at Marino from all sides.
Dude you cant take something away from someone because of who plays around him. PEYTON HAS 2 OF THE BEST Wr's in the league and a GREAT TE, and you act like hes a god...
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^^Do you think that Manning would have won with the Pats sunday? Im Sure Peyton would have made Gaffney NOT drop the ball in the end zone, or Manning would have made the Pats Wr's catch those 5 or 6 passes they dropped..Brady has less Talent and Almost pulled it out anyways, give the guy some fuckin credit.
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^^Do you think that Manning would have won with the Pats sunday? Im Sure Peyton would have made Gaffney NOT drop the ball in the end zone, or Manning would have made the Pats Wr's catch those 5 or 6 passes they dropped..Brady has less Talent and Almost pulled it out anyways, give the guy some fuckin credit.
Wasn't that endzone drop followed up with a TD anyway? So it didn't matter.
Since when is saying "I have no problem with someone calling him no.2" taking credit away from someone? I never said he sucked. I never said Montana sucked, or Elway sucked. I just think that when two great QBs are being compared that the one with the numbers, and the one with the that revolves around a pass offense above anything else, gets the advantage. And guys like Unitas, Manning and Marino are those kind of QBs.
Do I think Manning could have won the game if he was on NE? If Brady was on Indy then yeah I do because I don't think Brady could have staged that kind of comeback. I also think that if both Manning and Brady were traded this year and went to Oakland and Detrot (I don't care who goes where) that Manning would outplay Brady and have more wins but I couldn't name many, if any, other QBs that could outplay Brady and have more wins.
Just because I think Manning is better than Brady and the best in the league doesn't mean I think Brady is anything less than incredible. Here are the QBs I would take ahead of Brady if I were making a super team; Manning, Marino, Montana, Unitas, Starr, Flutie (I'm a sucker for Flutie), Favre, and Warren Moon (all in their prime). With guys like Bradshaw, Elway, etc I wouldn't mind having Brady instead. So for me Brady is already a top ten all time. How exactly am I taking credit away from him?
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
see i hate the pats and the colts... but i rooted for NE, cuz i really fuckin hate manning. period
You got something against talent?
I may hate the praise Brady gets but I don't actually hate him as a player (and obviously not as a person since I don't know him). He's a great QB, I just don't think he's the greatest playing right now because I think Peyton is, but I have no problem with anyone saying Brady is number 2.
Why do you hate Manning?
You shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Brady is #1, just like you shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Manning is #1, Shit this year IMO Brees was the best...
I do think Brees was the best this year. I think Manning is the best of the era. If I think Manning is better than Brady than why wouldn't I have a problem with people saying he's #1. I think both Favre and Young were better than Aikman in the previous era, and Kelly and Elway were just as good in my opinion, yet Aikman is the only one with 3 Superbowl rings. I'd have a problem with someone saying Aikman was the best of his era, just like I do when someone says Brady. I think Marino was the best QB of the era before that followed by Montana and Elway, because I think Montana would have been exposed as hell playing on Miami, and in the 1 Superbowl against eachother Miami couldn't run to save their lives and San Frans Defense was like a killing machine. I remember seeing a tape of that game and they just kept coming at Marino from all sides.
Dude you cant take something away from someone because of who plays around him. PEYTON HAS 2 OF THE BEST Wr's in the league and a GREAT TE, and you act like hes a god...
From a Brett Favre fan...Manning makes those two greater than they are.
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thats one of the realest things ever wrote..
Its funny that he said wrote this because before the game all my freinds were telling me they were rooting for the Colts because they were sick of the pats and blah blah blah...And i asked them to look at the situation and tell me how they could Hate a team Like the Pats..none of them had good answers, it befuddles me how people can hate on a team like the Pats
see i hate the pats and the colts... but i rooted for NE, cuz i really fuckin hate manning. period
You got something against talent?
I may hate the praise Brady gets but I don't actually hate him as a player (and obviously not as a person since I don't know him). He's a great QB, I just don't think he's the greatest playing right now because I think Peyton is, but I have no problem with anyone saying Brady is number 2.
Why do you hate Manning?
You shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Brady is #1, just like you shouldnt have a problem with anyone saying Manning is #1, Shit this year IMO Brees was the best...
I do think Brees was the best this year. I think Manning is the best of the era. If I think Manning is better than Brady than why wouldn't I have a problem with people saying he's #1. I think both Favre and Young were better than Aikman in the previous era, and Kelly and Elway were just as good in my opinion, yet Aikman is the only one with 3 Superbowl rings. I'd have a problem with someone saying Aikman was the best of his era, just like I do when someone says Brady. I think Marino was the best QB of the era before that followed by Montana and Elway, because I think Montana would have been exposed as hell playing on Miami, and in the 1 Superbowl against eachother Miami couldn't run to save their lives and San Frans Defense was like a killing machine. I remember seeing a tape of that game and they just kept coming at Marino from all sides.
Dude you cant take something away from someone because of who plays around him. PEYTON HAS 2 OF THE BEST Wr's in the league and a GREAT TE, and you act like hes a god...
From a Brett Favre fan...Manning makes those two greater than they are.
I think any starting WR or TE could go to Indy and after a few months of going through the practices with Manning they'd be top level players. They go over certain types of plays and learn as much about the QB as the QB does about them. That's why you see guys Ben Utecht get as many yards as dallas Clark, and Brandon Stokely go from the number 2 guy on Baltimore to the number 3 guy on Indy and still triple his production.
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^^Do you think that Manning would have won with the Pats sunday? Im Sure Peyton would have made Gaffney NOT drop the ball in the end zone, or Manning would have made the Pats Wr's catch those 5 or 6 passes they dropped..Brady has less Talent and Almost pulled it out anyways, give the guy some fuckin credit.
Wasn't that endzone drop followed up with a TD anyway? So it didn't matter.
Since when is saying "I have no problem with someone calling him no.2" taking credit away from someone? I never said he sucked. I never said Montana sucked, or Elway sucked. I just think that when two great QBs are being compared that the one with the numbers, and the one with the that revolves around a pass offense above anything else, gets the advantage. And guys like Unitas, Manning and Marino are those kind of QBs.
Do I think Manning could have won the game if he was on NE? If Brady was on Indy then yeah I do because I don't think Brady could have staged that kind of comeback. I also think that if both Manning and Brady were traded this year and went to Oakland and Detrot (I don't care who goes where) that Manning would outplay Brady and have more wins but I couldn't name many, if any, other QBs that could outplay Brady and have more wins.
Just because I think Manning is better than Brady and the best in the league doesn't mean I think Brady is anything less than incredible. Here are the QBs I would take ahead of Brady if I were making a super team; Manning, Marino, Montana, Unitas, Starr, Flutie (I'm a sucker for Flutie), Favre, and Warren Moon (all in their prime). With guys like Bradshaw, Elway, etc I wouldn't mind having Brady instead. So for me Brady is already a top ten all time. How exactly am I taking credit away from him?
he did it the week before...
LOL@ Flutie cmon man...be serious
I guess to me it seems like you are taking ANY Shots at Brady you can find, yet Manning never does wrong in ur eyes..just my opinion.. ;D
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But as far as giving Brady credit, u just did so its all good
and yes Peyton makes players around him better...
And about the dropped td by Gaffeny they ended up getting a FG..4 pt swing, how much did the Pats lose by? 4..Im not saying this is why they lost, but IF Harrison had dropped one in the end zone and cost them 4 pts, im sure you colts fans would point that out...
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Thank you. I never ever mean to downplay Brady as a bad or even mediocre player. He is amazing. I just have my choice and my reasons for that choice.
I would point that out of Harrison if he had a bad game all day, but Jabar Gaffney was one of the main reasons the Pats were doing so well. He had a much better game than any Colts WR in my opinion. He got open, he added yards after the catch he was he was down right brilliant in that TD catch he made. I called him out of bounds on first sight but when I saw the replay even before the ref said it I said he was in and his heels were raised and to have that state of mind in that positions is truly incredible. If Harrison had that kind of game and dropped one or two then I'd be forgiving, trust me.
P.S. You sure you aren't talking about that goofy drop by Caldwell? I don't remember Gafney making a bad drop.
And I do think that Manning is at the level now where he can do no wrong. And I never blame him for a loss. But I've never blamed Brady for any of his losses and put him at that level too. Is Manning perfect? No, no one is. But I'd rather have him on the field than not have him on the field.
^^Do you think that Manning would have won with the Pats sunday? Im Sure Peyton would have made Gaffney NOT drop the ball in the end zone, or Manning would have made the Pats Wr's catch those 5 or 6 passes they dropped..Brady has less Talent and Almost pulled it out anyways, give the guy some fuckin credit.
Wasn't that endzone drop followed up with a TD anyway? So it didn't matter.
Since when is saying "I have no problem with someone calling him no.2" taking credit away from someone? I never said he sucked. I never said Montana sucked, or Elway sucked. I just think that when two great QBs are being compared that the one with the numbers, and the one with the that revolves around a pass offense above anything else, gets the advantage. And guys like Unitas, Manning and Marino are those kind of QBs.
Do I think Manning could have won the game if he was on NE? If Brady was on Indy then yeah I do because I don't think Brady could have staged that kind of comeback. I also think that if both Manning and Brady were traded this year and went to Oakland and Detrot (I don't care who goes where) that Manning would outplay Brady and have more wins but I couldn't name many, if any, other QBs that could outplay Brady and have more wins.
Just because I think Manning is better than Brady and the best in the league doesn't mean I think Brady is anything less than incredible. Here are the QBs I would take ahead of Brady if I were making a super team; Manning, Marino, Montana, Unitas, Starr, Flutie (I'm a sucker for Flutie), Favre, and Warren Moon (all in their prime). With guys like Bradshaw, Elway, etc I wouldn't mind having Brady instead. So for me Brady is already a top ten all time. How exactly am I taking credit away from him?
he did it the week before...
LOL@ Flutie cmon man...be serious
I guess to me it seems like you are taking ANY Shots at Brady you can find, yet Manning never does wrong in ur eyes..just my opinion.. ;D
No one will ever turn my mind on Flutie. He took a going nowhere team like Buffalo to the playoffs twice in a row and if he had the chance to play in the playoffs the second year I think he would have taken them all the way. If Doug Flutie had won the Superbowl with that team that year there would be little doubt in anyone's mind. I know should coulda woulda, but he'll always be my favourite player (keep in mind that I'm from Toronto and he was good to our city). If he had the freedom that Peyton Manning has I think you would have seen him make some real waves in the NFL. I know he crumbled in San Diego but he was 39 years old at the the time and the defense was awful. LT wasn't the player he is now (though still good, he is much more of a difference maker these days), and I think once he beat Buffalo that year he lost his hunger. No one expected shit from the Chargers that year. They came off a 1-15 record in 2000 and all of a sudden they were 5-2 and Flutie just showed he was the wrong guy to let go when he went to town on Buffalo. Then they lost 9 straight games and 5 of those were very close and could have went either way. Flutie in that year was a couple years older than Favre is now. I'd like to see Manning and Brady when they are nearing 40. He's not a stat machine but he's a winner and if he doesn't win he'll die trying. I wish the NFL had gotten wise to him earlier in life and plucked him out of the CFL a little 5 years before they did.
And please don't compare San Diego's plunder to Peyton's comeback. San Diego did so many things wrong to screw up that game. And I mean huge mistakes. NE didn't make those kind of mistakes. They may have dropped passes but they didn't give the ball away several times. And even then, Indy was at one point down by 18 points and 15 points at half time. At most The Pats were down by 11 and only down by 4 at half time. They they were with in 1 before SD could score again. This was a simple case of San Diego giving the game away over and again. Not a one man effort by Brady. And not nearly as close as Peyton's second half comeback.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thank you. I never ever mean to downplay Brady as a bad or even mediocre player. He is amazing. I just have my choice and my reasons for that choice.
I would point that out of Harrison if he had a bad game all day, but Jabar Gaffney was one of the main reasons the Pats were doing so well. He had a much better game than any Colts WR in my opinion. He got open, he added yards after the catch he was he was down right brilliant in that TD catch he made. I called him out of bounds on first sight but when I saw the replay even before the ref said it I said he was in and his heels were raised and to have that state of mind in that positions is truly incredible. If Harrison had that kind of game and dropped one or two then I'd be forgiving, trust me.
P.S. You sure you aren't talking about that goofy drop by Caldwell? I don't remember Gafney making a bad drop.
And I do think that Manning is at the level now where he can do no wrong. And I never blame him for a loss. But I've never blamed Brady for any of his losses and put him at that level too. Is Manning perfect? No, no one is. But I'd rather have him on the field than not have him on the field.
^^Do you think that Manning would have won with the Pats sunday? Im Sure Peyton would have made Gaffney NOT drop the ball in the end zone, or Manning would have made the Pats Wr's catch those 5 or 6 passes they dropped..Brady has less Talent and Almost pulled it out anyways, give the guy some fuckin credit.
Wasn't that endzone drop followed up with a TD anyway? So it didn't matter.
Since when is saying "I have no problem with someone calling him no.2" taking credit away from someone? I never said he sucked. I never said Montana sucked, or Elway sucked. I just think that when two great QBs are being compared that the one with the numbers, and the one with the that revolves around a pass offense above anything else, gets the advantage. And guys like Unitas, Manning and Marino are those kind of QBs.
Do I think Manning could have won the game if he was on NE? If Brady was on Indy then yeah I do because I don't think Brady could have staged that kind of comeback. I also think that if both Manning and Brady were traded this year and went to Oakland and Detrot (I don't care who goes where) that Manning would outplay Brady and have more wins but I couldn't name many, if any, other QBs that could outplay Brady and have more wins.
Just because I think Manning is better than Brady and the best in the league doesn't mean I think Brady is anything less than incredible. Here are the QBs I would take ahead of Brady if I were making a super team; Manning, Marino, Montana, Unitas, Starr, Flutie (I'm a sucker for Flutie), Favre, and Warren Moon (all in their prime). With guys like Bradshaw, Elway, etc I wouldn't mind having Brady instead. So for me Brady is already a top ten all time. How exactly am I taking credit away from him?
he did it the week before...
LOL@ Flutie cmon man...be serious
I guess to me it seems like you are taking ANY Shots at Brady you can find, yet Manning never does wrong in ur eyes..just my opinion.. ;D
No one will ever turn my mind on Flutie. He took a going nowhere team like Buffalo to the playoffs twice in a row and if he had the chance to play in the playoffs the second year I think he would have taken them all the way. If Doug Flutie had won the Superbowl with that team that year there would be little doubt in anyone's mind. I know should coulda woulda, but he'll always be my favourite player (keep in mind that I'm from Toronto and he was good to our city). If he had the freedom that Peyton Manning has I think you would have seen him make some real waves in the NFL. I know he crumbled in San Diego but he was 39 years old at the the time and the defense was awful. LT wasn't the player he is now (though still good, he is much more of a difference maker these days), and I think once he beat Buffalo that year he lost his hunger. No one expected shit from the Chargers that year. They came off a 1-15 record in 2000 and all of a sudden they were 5-2 and Flutie just showed he was the wrong guy to let go when he went to town on Buffalo. Then they lost 9 straight games and 5 of those were very close and could have went either way. Flutie in that year was a couple years older than Favre is now. I'd like to see Manning and Brady when they are nearing 40. He's not a stat machine but he's a winner and if he doesn't win he'll die trying. I wish the NFL had gotten wise to him earlier in life and plucked him out of the CFL a little 5 years before they did.
And please don't compare San Diego's plunder to Peyton's comeback. San Diego did so many things wrong to screw up that game. And I mean huge mistakes. NE didn't make those kind of mistakes. They may have dropped passes but they didn't give the ball away several times. And even then, Indy was at one point down by 18 points and 15 points at half time. At most The Pats were down by 11 and only down by 4 at half time. They they were with in 1 before SD could score again. This was a simple case of San Diego giving the game away over and again. Not a one man effort by Brady. And not nearly as close as Peyton's second half comeback.
On the part i put in bold, i was reach a little ;D
About Gafney dropping passes i did mean Caldwell and i dont know why i put Gaffney.But Caldwell had several drops, and that TD drop was horrid he was WIDE open..and we will always argue about Manning vs Brady but i dont hate on you for saying Manning is #1 cuz he is amazing, i just think Brady is better, so it is what it is
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Yeah, Caldwell had some bad plays.
I'll argue Manning over Brady until I see something to the contrary. If Manning starts slumping after this year and Brady wins 1 or 2 more Superbowls and plays great until his mid to late 30s then I'll change my mind based on career performance. If Manning wins next week then wins the next year or again or does something like 3peat, or ends up with 4 Superbowls winning his last one at 40 years old (all hypothetical of course) then I'd call Manning the greatest ever and would even bother arguing with anyone that says Brady. The fact that I argue so much tells how close the two are. If you had said Big Ben or Jon Kitna were better than Manning I wouldn't even have responded with more than one post dismissing the claim.
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Yeah, Caldwell had some bad plays.
I'll argue Manning over Brady until I see something to the contrary. If Manning starts slumping after this year and Brady wins 1 or 2 more Superbowls and plays great until his mid to late 30s then I'll change my mind based on career performance. If Manning wins next week then wins the next year or again or does something like 3peat, or ends up with 4 Superbowls winning his last one at 40 years old (all hypothetical of course) then I'd call Manning the greatest ever and would even bother arguing with anyone that says Brady. The fact that I argue so much tells how close the two are. If you had said Big Ben or Jon Kitna were better than Manning I wouldn't even have responded with more than one post dismissing the claim.
I think Big Ben and the Steelers will be MUCH better next year..
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Yeah, Caldwell had some bad plays.
I'll argue Manning over Brady until I see something to the contrary. If Manning starts slumping after this year and Brady wins 1 or 2 more Superbowls and plays great until his mid to late 30s then I'll change my mind based on career performance. If Manning wins next week then wins the next year or again or does something like 3peat, or ends up with 4 Superbowls winning his last one at 40 years old (all hypothetical of course) then I'd call Manning the greatest ever and would even bother arguing with anyone that says Brady. The fact that I argue so much tells how close the two are. If you had said Big Ben or Jon Kitna were better than Manning I wouldn't even have responded with more than one post dismissing the claim.
I think Big Ben and the Steelers will be MUCH better next year..
I think they are a great team and could go far any year. Ben has shown he is great for a secondary role. The team was built a lot more around defense and run and very little around passing. But he was good enough to make the passes that counted when you didn't expect a pass. He's rarely shown me that he can lead a whole game, much less a season with his arm. Of course that doesn't mean he can't, that just means he hasn't. He did alright last year but his INT number were huge considering his number of attempts.
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Yeah, Caldwell had some bad plays.
I'll argue Manning over Brady until I see something to the contrary. If Manning starts slumping after this year and Brady wins 1 or 2 more Superbowls and plays great until his mid to late 30s then I'll change my mind based on career performance. If Manning wins next week then wins the next year or again or does something like 3peat, or ends up with 4 Superbowls winning his last one at 40 years old (all hypothetical of course) then I'd call Manning the greatest ever and would even bother arguing with anyone that says Brady. The fact that I argue so much tells how close the two are. If you had said Big Ben or Jon Kitna were better than Manning I wouldn't even have responded with more than one post dismissing the claim.
I think Big Ben and the Steelers will be MUCH better next year..
I think they are a great team and could go far any year. Ben has shown he is great for a secondary role. The team was built a lot more around defense and run and very little around passing. But he was good enough to make the passes that counted when you didn't expect a pass. He's rarely shown me that he can lead a whole game, much less a season with his arm. Of course that doesn't mean he can't, that just means he hasn't. He did alright last year but his INT number were huge considering his number of attempts.
Hes only played 3 years give him some time ;)
Yeah he had to throw way to much last year, but he had several 300 yd games, he was actually pretty damn good fantasy QB, but if the Steelers want to be a SB contender again, he needs to throw 20-25 maybe 30 but not 40-50 passes per game like this last year. You are bound to throw INT's when you have to throw 50 times a game, constantly down by 10-20 pts. So it was more the defense this year then BEN IMO