West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: Tanjential on February 07, 2007, 10:06:03 AM
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first a couple questions
how much did illmatic sell?
what was the name of the hitt song dre produced for the end of the forgot about dre video?
what is nas talking about when he says on hustlers that him and dre were collaborating before the firm happened, has anyone heard these collabs he's referring to? cause 'nas is coming' the earliest that I know of is on the same album as 'affirmative action' thus going against such a statement.
Now, my thoughts...
I feel that what Dre and Nas were trying to do with the firm was like gangsta rap but intellectually elevated from the street brutality DR was known for. It was still crime, but it was organized crime (big weight drug deals, feds tapping the phones, planes to all over the world). Still street, but street smart. Not just sex driven but sexy and sophisticated. Funky and classy, they even found ways to mix G funk with Godfather style mafioso music, really intelligent and artistically inspired shit but not a money winning combination for those who ain't listening cause a) the average music listener isn't necessarily a godather fan b) Gangsta rap fans would find it too "uppity" c) Backpack rap fans/Lyrical heads would find it to be too gangsta....so the only people who are really getting it are Nas' hardcore base, dre's base, and Godfather fans who like gangsta rap. That said, even though firm sold platinum people consider it a failure cause expectations for nas and dre were so ridiculous, I consider it an artistic success that went over the heads of the mainstream (at least alot of the dre stuff, i liked one or two of the trackmasters produced firm stuff). I consider what Nas and dre were doing to be like gangsta rap but elevated above the thuggishness-Mafioso Rap. It's a shame it didn't blow up, the lyrical potential was enormous, it could have changed the game if it didn't go over people's heads. imagine that, imagine the kinda shit we'da heard kurupt spit by now if that genre got big? The Game wouldn't even be here(I like Game, but just an observation).
This concept is the same reason i think Hittman doesn't have the artistic potential as Bishop
a)Hittman is a big guy, harder to market. MTV and those channels get more shallow every year, it's not the same climate Biggie blew up in, plus you have to take into account that as much as paparazzi hounded people back in the 90's now not only is there all the same coverage as before but now there's cribs and other reality shows so you're on camera 24/7, MTV's gonna want solely conventionally attractive people on their shows.
b) Hittman's flow/style is very unique but if you're not listening right/don't like his particular thing he's not very accessible. dude is sick but his shit was way too....sway-y is the best way i can put it, to blow up universally, he has so much sophisticated style and lyrics he's a rapper's rapper.
c) his style was also very mafioso rap, probably over the heads of the commercial market.
whereas Bishop lamont with stuff like "translator" is in a PERFECT position to progress the ideas Nas is bringing to the forefront with 'hip hop is dead', bishop is a conventionally attractive dude so he will get video play, a more straight forward style and voice (but still very skilled for sure) and it's not gangsta but it is west coast which is EXACTLY what the west coast needs. I talk to alot of people about music alot and most rap fans I talk to living out here in CA that aren't listening to the west coast always tell me that they're tired of the gangster shit and that's why they don't check for long beach and shit like that on the shelves anymore.
-T
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first a couple questions
how much did illmatic sell?
what was the name of the hitt song dre produced for the end of the forgot about dre video?
what is nas talking about when he says on hustlers that him and dre were collaborating before the firm happened, has anyone heard these collabs he's referring to? cause 'nas is coming' the earliest that I know of is on the same album as 'affirmative action' thus going against such a statement.
Now, my thoughts...
I feel that what Dre and Nas were trying to do with the firm was like gangsta rap but intellectually elevated from the street brutality DR was known for. It was still crime, but it was organized crime (big weight drug deals, feds tapping the phones, planes to all over the world). Still street, but street smart. Not just sex driven but sexy and sophisticated. Funky and classy, they even found ways to mix G funk with Godfather style mafioso music, really intelligent and artistically inspired shit but not a money winning combination for those who ain't listening cause a) the average music listener isn't necessarily a godather fan b) Gangsta rap fans would find it too "uppity" c) Backpack rap fans/Lyrical heads would find it to be too gangsta....so the only people who are really getting it are Nas' hardcore base, dre's base, and Godfather fans who like gangsta rap. That said, even though firm sold platinum people consider it a failure cause expectations for nas and dre were so ridiculous, I consider it an artistic success that went over the heads of the mainstream (at least alot of the dre stuff, i liked one or two of the trackmasters produced firm stuff). I consider what Nas and dre were doing to be like gangsta rap but elevated above the thuggishness-Mafioso Rap. It's a shame it didn't blow up, the lyrical potential was enormous, it could have changed the game if it didn't go over people's heads. imagine that, imagine the kinda shit we'da heard kurupt spit by now if that genre got big? The Game wouldn't even be here(I like Game, but just an observation).
This concept is the same reason i think Hittman doesn't have the artistic potential as Bishop
a)Hittman is a big guy, harder to market. MTV and those channels get more shallow every year, it's not the same climate Biggie blew up in, plus you have to take into account that as much as paparazzi hounded people back in the 90's now not only is there all the same coverage as before but now there's cribs and other reality shows so you're on camera 24/7, MTV's gonna want solely conventionally attractive people on their shows.
b) Hittman's flow/style is very unique but if you're not listening right/don't like his particular thing he's not very accessible. dude is sick but his shit was way too....sway-y is the best way i can put it, to blow up universally, he has so much sophisticated style and lyrics he's a rapper's rapper.
c) his style was also very mafioso rap, probably over the heads of the commercial market.
whereas Bishop lamont with stuff like "translator" is in a PERFECT position to progress the ideas Nas is bringing to the forefront with 'hip hop is dead', bishop is a conventionally attractive dude so he will get video play, a more straight forward style and voice (but still very skilled for sure) and it's not gangsta but it is west coast which is EXACTLY what the west coast needs. I talk to alot of people about music alot and most rap fans I talk to living out here in CA that aren't listening to the west coast always tell me that they're tired of the gangster shit and that's why they don't check for long beach and shit like that on the shelves anymore.
-T
Nas sold a mil with Illmatic
I don't think that was a song at first, at was like a interlude beat that Hit was spittin on. Should have dropped that right after his single to kick off Hit's album
Nas is Coming is what he is talking about. Probably that song is dated. Could have been in 1995 or sometime a little before the Firm was established. Might not have been before the original Firm but you have to remember they redid the group after Cormega had beef with Nas.
Hittman would have blown up. EVERYONE Dre was dropping back then was doing well. He just did not do it.
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first a couple questions
how much did illmatic sell?
what was the name of the hitt song dre produced for the end of the forgot about dre video?
what is nas talking about when he says on hustlers that him and dre were collaborating before the firm happened, has anyone heard these collabs he's referring to? cause 'nas is coming' the earliest that I know of is on the same album as 'affirmative action' thus going against such a statement.
Now, my thoughts...
I feel that what Dre and Nas were trying to do with the firm was like gangsta rap but intellectually elevated from the street brutality DR was known for. It was still crime, but it was organized crime (big weight drug deals, feds tapping the phones, planes to all over the world). Still street, but street smart. Not just sex driven but sexy and sophisticated. Funky and classy, they even found ways to mix G funk with Godfather style mafioso music, really intelligent and artistically inspired shit but not a money winning combination for those who ain't listening cause a) the average music listener isn't necessarily a godather fan b) Gangsta rap fans would find it too "uppity" c) Backpack rap fans/Lyrical heads would find it to be too gangsta....so the only people who are really getting it are Nas' hardcore base, dre's base, and Godfather fans who like gangsta rap. That said, even though firm sold platinum people consider it a failure cause expectations for nas and dre were so ridiculous, I consider it an artistic success that went over the heads of the mainstream (at least alot of the dre stuff, i liked one or two of the trackmasters produced firm stuff). I consider what Nas and dre were doing to be like gangsta rap but elevated above the thuggishness-Mafioso Rap. It's a shame it didn't blow up, the lyrical potential was enormous, it could have changed the game if it didn't go over people's heads. imagine that, imagine the kinda shit we'da heard kurupt spit by now if that genre got big? The Game wouldn't even be here(I like Game, but just an observation).
This concept is the same reason i think Hittman doesn't have the artistic potential as Bishop
a)Hittman is a big guy, harder to market. MTV and those channels get more shallow every year, it's not the same climate Biggie blew up in, plus you have to take into account that as much as paparazzi hounded people back in the 90's now not only is there all the same coverage as before but now there's cribs and other reality shows so you're on camera 24/7, MTV's gonna want solely conventionally attractive people on their shows.
b) Hittman's flow/style is very unique but if you're not listening right/don't like his particular thing he's not very accessible. dude is sick but his shit was way too....sway-y is the best way i can put it, to blow up universally, he has so much sophisticated style and lyrics he's a rapper's rapper.
c) his style was also very mafioso rap, probably over the heads of the commercial market.
whereas Bishop lamont with stuff like "translator" is in a PERFECT position to progress the ideas Nas is bringing to the forefront with 'hip hop is dead', bishop is a conventionally attractive dude so he will get video play, a more straight forward style and voice (but still very skilled for sure) and it's not gangsta but it is west coast which is EXACTLY what the west coast needs. I talk to alot of people about music alot and most rap fans I talk to living out here in CA that aren't listening to the west coast always tell me that they're tired of the gangster shit and that's why they don't check for long beach and shit like that on the shelves anymore.
-T
Nas sold a mil with Illmatic
I don't think that was a song at first, at was like a interlude beat that Hit was spittin on. Should have dropped that right after his single to kick off Hit's album
Nas is Coming is what he is talking about. Probably that song is dated. Could have been in 1995 or sometime a little before the Firm was established. Might not have been before the original Firm but you have to remember they redid the group after Cormega had beef with Nas.
Hittman would have blown up. EVERYONE Dre was dropping back then was doing well. He just did not do it.
I think Hittman could have had some success yeah, anyone could off Aftermath's momentum at the time
but
a)Look at Knocturnal, me of all people will even say: Dre participation doesn't guarantee anything unless he's producing 7 tracks plus for you and even then look at King T-thy kingdom come, dre participation doesn't even guarantee you anything unless he produces your whole record.
b) such factors as the ones I listed I think are partly things that led dre to not push Hittman, dre will be the first cat to say for him to wanna market you you have to already be very very marketable, he ain't gonna do it for you. so yeah he could have released hittman and really made it happen, but he didn't and I think the reasons may have something to do with the ideas that i expressed.
-T
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True, but you never know until you put a artist out. Knocturnal was more affliated with Dre and that got him a deal with Elektra. Elektra expected Dre to be very hands on with his project. King Tee was never put out. My feeling is you never know until you try and put a artist out there. I ain't saying that King Tee would have went plat, but gold was manageable. Dre went with the Eminem momentum after 2001. Dre cannot focus on more than 1 artist. He gives his all to 1 and half or nothing to the rest.
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True, but you never know until you put a artist out. Knocturnal was more affliated with Dre and that got him a deal with Elektra. Elektra expected Dre to be very hands on with his project. King Tee was never put out. My feeling is you never know until you try and put a artist out there. I ain't saying that King Tee would have went plat, but gold was manageable. Dre went with the Eminem momentum after 2001. Dre cannot focus on more than 1 artist. He gives his all to 1 and half or nothing to the rest.
true....but thy kingdom come is up on allmusic.com with a cover and everything, says it was released by interscope but not AM, you sure it never got released?
-T
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allmusic.com says it was released on interscope Jun 30, 1998(thy kingdome come, that is).
-T
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True, but you never know until you put a artist out. Knocturnal was more affliated with Dre and that got him a deal with Elektra. Elektra expected Dre to be very hands on with his project. King Tee was never put out. My feeling is you never know until you try and put a artist out there. I ain't saying that King Tee would have went plat, but gold was manageable. Dre went with the Eminem momentum after 2001. Dre cannot focus on more than 1 artist. He gives his all to 1 and half or nothing to the rest.
true....but thy kingdom come is up on allmusic.com with a cover and everything, says it was released by interscope but not AM, you sure it never got released?
-T
They just released that for sale a couple of years ago. After King Tee left, Dre let him have the masters to the album and he released it. That shit was supposed to come out in like 98 or something before 2001. I remember seeing promo singles for it. But that is Dre for ya.
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that's so fucking whack, that album bangs.
-T
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that's so fucking whack, that album bangs.
-T
Yeah I still play that album because it is still new.
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just got it from HU spot the other day, it's real good. crazy how dre used the zoom beat AGAIN.
-T
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Thy Kingdom Come was to be the very 1st Aftermath release.
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not hatin on you playboy but i didnt read the whole post, but while i was skimmiong i heard u said hittman was a big guy....
and thats a major factor why nigga didnt sell, he a ugly mofo....no hate, no gay shit....its just truth....and he had a weak vioce.....now bishop he in shape, he'll get his pussy and image looking good with the cats doing work on niggaz on tv....cuz there is something to work with....hittman was a crazy lyricist and had a nice flow, but his vioce wasnt universal and no bitches would have copped his shit...even in those times...
peace
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good thread
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thank you real city, +1
anyway, no hate lyrical it's all good, you actually said alot of the same points I made about Hitt's marketability.
-T
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so yeah in summation, I feel like Hittman/2001 were his final stab at Mafioso Rap and when that shit with Hitt didn't work out he figured he'd use Game to make a chronic/doggystyle type album again and do the west coast classic formula and sell 5 million records. then shit with Game fell out and now he's about to finally open the door for non gangsta but still hardcore west coast rap with Bishop....I'm down.
-T
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Hittman would've never in a million years blown up that's why Dre didn't release it, but I will always be a fan of Hit he had some of the best verses on 2001, underrated lyricist
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Hittman would've never in a million years blown up that's why Dre didn't release it, but I will always be a fan of Hit he had some of the best verses on 2001, underrated lyricist
Hittman is mad talented and a great lyricist, but there is no way dude would've blown up due to a lack of a gimmick and no real charisma on the mic
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he has charisma on the mic, but not MTV style charisma I guess.
-T
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what went crackin with mtv?? is that shit not meant to be MUSIC television??? or someshit like that? the only thing i don't see on that is music, they always got weak ass shows on it....fuck happened to music videos making a big difference in music.....last music video i know which helped sales was in da club.....and i know, that shit was huge in clubs and everything, was amazing beat and 50 rode the beat simple but catchy and perfect....but the video worked cuz it brought the idea of shady/aftermath to the world and how 50 was being developed in some kinda mad research facility or someshit....was creative video kinda streching the club jam to its limit.....shit i remember when michael jackson would use a music video to help a song reach its full potential....now its all the same....and it seems like MTV have in end lost its point to...sad shit is the state of music right now imo....
even the best producer out right now(on current form)....timbaland is mad inspired by indian shit and even though some of his rigt now is great, take music back 5-10 years, and his shit would be above average but not like whoa music.....
peace....
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why was that hittman beat never made it to a song, man if only hitt was still around
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it actually made it to a whole song: Hittman - Last Dayz ;)
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is that the same song as 'not many days left'
-T
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Hittman - Last Dayz was a dubcnn Throwback drop last year
http://www.dubcnm.com/audio/2006/april/hittman-last_dayz-(dubcnn).mp3
click to listen or right click "save as" to download
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downloading as we speak, thanks +1
so this is hittman dre produced?
-T
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downloading as we speak, thanks +1
so this is hittman dre produced?
-T
yup, the first 30 seconds are what you could see at the end of the forgot about dre video....it ended with the toilet flush sounds...this track is the full version and was to be the first single off the album
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thanks again man
-T