West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Maestro Minded on February 24, 2007, 06:34:13 PM
-
how can you say that some old dude like pele (football) or kareem (basketball) was the goat when the practice and the skills they had then is nothing compared to now. i can name at least 100 active football players today playing better than maradona ever did. people always progress and in some sports its harder to deny it. for ex. nobody can claim that carl lewis is the best sprinter ever since many other guys have passed his WR.
i was thinking of this because of the goat polls flooding dubcc.
i always try to see things as objective as possible and the fact is that with today’s strict trainings, diet and tactics, there's no way a player from the 70-80's would fit in any team in premier league, nba or anything else.
if you want to make a objective goat-team it would probably consist of "later" players
juust some thoughts
same thing when some people tries to convince me that some old humphrey bogart film is the best they've ever seen... they knew nothing about making films back then... its all nostalgia
-
that's a stupid
magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league
ect.
you're not GREAT because of numbers you put up or how much technology is around you to aid you in competition, you're great because of the raw talent and leadership skills you pocess. kareem would still be a hall of famer if he were to play in today'sleague......bill lambier maybe not.....get my drift? if you know your history of the sport than you should know pretty much what historic figures should be in these discussions.
-
I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.
-
I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.
real spit. It always kills me when people say Larry Bird couldnt compete today. lol.
-
I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced. many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
i wont spend too much time trying to convince people
-
I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced. many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
i wont spend too much time trying to convince people
game not match.
Era's are different. Greatness defines doing something common in an uncommon way, guys like Oscar, cousy, west, etc did that. You cant compare the era's its just not realistic.
-
I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.
real spit. It always kills me when people say Larry Bird couldnt compete today. lol.
he wouldnt.. not with the skills and training he had then.. but if he had the same conditions todays players have maybe he would rape them... i have no opinion in that matter. you you need to distinguish between actual skill and possibility to develop further under diferent circumstances
-
I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced. many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
i wont spend too much time trying to convince people
game not match.
Era's are different. Greatness defines doing something common in an uncommon way, guys like Oscar, cousy, west, etc did that. You cant compare the era's its just not realistic.
i say match, im not american
and yor're right. you can compare eras, because techniques develop and skills develops. it would be a shame if the case wasnt such.
djinghis khan had a great army... for his era.. but the fact is that todays destructed iraq would rip him a new asshole. so you cant say that no army have been stronger than khans army, because thats obviously not the case. what you can say though is that no army have made such an impact toward his opposition as khan did.
but thats not what you guys are saying... you guys are claiming that the top oldschoolers were actually playing better than the top players of today.. it's just laughable honestly
-
I-Bo, do you know much about basketball? I dunno about soccer, but Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would have been just as affective today with his sound fundamentals, especially in a league that lacks true centers...Magic would be just as amazing, probably even more since Nash is the standard MVP were held to today...You can easily compare players of the past and the present...that's the advantage we have today with film, technology, etc.
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
magic johnson> any point guard in the league now
john stockton> everyone except maybe Kidd
Oscar robinson> everyone in the league now
isiah thomas> would be a superstar in the league now
jerry west> would definately be a hall of famer by the end of his career if he stared in today's league
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced. many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
i wont spend too much time trying to convince people
LMAO...Okay, Swedish referree. I dunno about your Sweden leagues, but defense has always been a strong element of basketball in America. In fact, the defense was even stronger back in the days, with the less harsh rules... back then, almost every team had an enforcer who would mainly focus on pushing other players around. Today, teams can get away with playing ZERO defense...You think if a guy like Steve Nash is MVP in todays league, a legend amongst legend like Jerry West would be anything short of amazing? LOOK AT HIS CAREER AVERAGES! AND THAT WAS WITHOUT THE 3 POINT LINE...The only reason the US aint killin everyone in international play is because we keep on sending out consolation teams!...PeACe
-
LMAO...Okay, Swedish referree. I dunno about your Sweden leagues, but defense has always been a strong element of basketball in America. In fact, the defense was even stronger back in the days, with the less harsh rules... back then, almost every team had an enforcer who would mainly focus on pushing other players around. Today, teams can get away with playing ZERO defense...You think if a guy like Steve Nash is MVP in todays league, a legend amongst legend like Jerry West would be anything short of amazing? LOOK AT HIS CAREER AVERAGES! AND THAT WAS WITHOUT THE 3 POINT LINE...The only reason the US aint killin everyone in international play is because we keep on sending out consolation teams!...PeACe
you asked me what i knew about basketball and i responded.. whats funny?
i see no "supreme defense" when wathcing old black and white nba tapes.. but maybe it's just me...
and don't make excuses... usa are loosing because other countries are catching up
last time i checked carmello, dwayne and lebron were top scorers in nba
-
LMAO...Okay, Swedish referree. I dunno about your Sweden leagues, but defense has always been a strong element of basketball in America. In fact, the defense was even stronger back in the days, with the less harsh rules... back then, almost every team had an enforcer who would mainly focus on pushing other players around. Today, teams can get away with playing ZERO defense...You think if a guy like Steve Nash is MVP in todays league, a legend amongst legend like Jerry West would be anything short of amazing? LOOK AT HIS CAREER AVERAGES! AND THAT WAS WITHOUT THE 3 POINT LINE...The only reason the US aint killin everyone in international play is because we keep on sending out consolation teams!...PeACe
you asked me what i knew about basketball and i responded.. whats funny?
i see no "supreme defense" when wathcing old black and white nba tapes.. but maybe it's just me...
and don't make excuses... usa are loosing because other countries are catching up
last time i checked carmello, dwayne and lebron were top scorers in nba
LeBron, Carmelo, and Wade are all second rate players, not on the level of proven vets like Kobe, Duncan, Kidd etc....Players of the 70s/80s like Dr. J, Dominique Wilkins, Daryl Dawkins and so forth were just as athletic and physically developed AND would put the Wade's and LeBron's of today to shame...PeACe
-
i can name at least 100 active football players today playing better than maradona ever did.
Bullshit.
-
i can name at least 100 active football players today playing better than maradona ever did.
Bullshit.
ok.. maybe not 100... but atleast 20
-
i can name at least 100 active football players today playing better than maradona ever did.
Bullshit.
ok.. maybe not 100... but atleast 20
Bullshit. Name 20 active players playing better than Maradona ever did.
-
im typing attacking midfielders and strikers since thats the position maradona played
henry
drogba
shevchenko (atleast when he played in italy)
robben (the only one who can match cristiano ronaldo in speed, is to injury prone though)
gerrard
rooney
cristiano ronaldo
scholes
ronaldinho
eto'o
nistelrooy
torres
villa
ibrahimovic
totti
stankovic
adriano (when on form)
kaka
klose
makaay
juninho
pauleta
-------------------------------
don't even try to claim that im wrong
put your respect for the "legends" aside for the moment
cristiano ronaldo is WAAY quicker with the ball, can shoot perfect with both feet, controlls the ball 10x better than maradona. you probably wanna mention the "dribble" in mexico '86 where maradona supposedly dribbled through the whole midfield and back to score, but if you look carefully, you will see that he dribbled through two players only. well cristiano ronaldo did the same thing last week.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/omtc27
and thats not the first time he've done it
you wanna see a real dribble, check zlatan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMkQMYXu34M
i would show stuff of each player i mentioned, but it would take too muc of my time
-
^^
I gotta disagree with you on this.
The thing what makes Maradona a GOAT is, he was ahead of his generation. You did name a lot of players that are really good and maybe even better then Maradona.
But Maradona made Argentina world champion. In a team that wouldn't been world champion without Maradona. Thats also the difference between Pele and Maradona. Brazil would've won the WC without Pele. Because they had a great team with fantastic players. Thats not the same thing with Maradona. His team wasn't that good that they would've won the WC without Maradona. Same thing can be said when he went to Napoli.
What youre saying about C Ronaldo is right. C Ronaldo knows a lot more and difficult tricks with the bal then Maradona. But if you saw Maradona play and you notice that he is one with the ball, and he could make that quality usefull on the footballfield. C Ronaldo is very different, because tricks is the way he plays. He even makes trick when it isnt nescecary.
And thats what makes a legend a legend. Maradona made the difference on his own.
-
IMO none of the players on that list are better than Diego Maradona between 1985 and 1990
Maradona had the ability to carry an ordinary Argentina team to the World Cup
He lifted not just a club in Napoli to the Seria A title but also the people
Maradona's balance when dribbling with a ball was the best that I have ever seen, he had such a low centre of gravity and the ability and speed that he could take people on and the vision he had was immense
You comment on the goal he scored when he beat a number of players I imagine that you are talking about England in Mexico 86, he did the same against Belgium (well he actually beat more players) and that is just one example
Yes technique improves and players get faster, but the equipment that players of today use is also a factor in this and the way that players look after themselves. Surely a player that was out drinking, general misbehaving and using older equipment will look less impressive than a player of today, but would a player of today been able to handle playing back then?
Think of the protection that a number of players on your list gets compared to the protection that a player like Maradona or Best or Pele or Cruyff or Garrincha or Van Basten got would today's players take this punishment and get back up and go at a player again or would they hide behind the refs or injuries?
Yes some of the players on the list are very impressive and could be considered some of the best of their generations but to compare RVN, Pauleta, Klose, Drogba, Stankovic, Adriano, Juninho Pernambucano etc to a great like Maradona is unfair and not very accurate IMO
-
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around????? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.
lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.
many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then
::) @ this fools basketball intellect
-
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around????? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.
lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.
many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then
::) @ this fools basketball intellect
i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff
let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever.. basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments
so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.
are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.
Players Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1 Robert Parish (70's) 1611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's) 1560
3 John Stockton (80's) 1422
4 Karl Malone (80's) 1353
5 Moses Malone (70's) 1329
6 Buck Williams (80's) 1307
7 Elvin Hayes (60's) 1303
8 John Havlicek (60's) 1270
9 Paul Silas (70's) 1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's) 1222
11 A.C. Green (80's) 1278
hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??
Players Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy 88 (1968-69)
Tom Henderson 87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore 86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard 86 (1975-76)
i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?
you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm
and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.
Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.
but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.
-
^^
I gotta disagree with you on this.
The thing what makes Maradona a GOAT is, he was ahead of his generation. You did name a lot of players that are really good and maybe even better then Maradona.
But Maradona made Argentina world champion. In a team that wouldn't been world champion without Maradona. Thats also the difference between Pele and Maradona. Brazil would've won the WC without Pele. Because they had a great team with fantastic players. Thats not the same thing with Maradona. His team wasn't that good that they would've won the WC without Maradona. Same thing can be said when he went to Napoli.
What youre saying about C Ronaldo is right. C Ronaldo knows a lot more and difficult tricks with the bal then Maradona. But if you saw Maradona play and you notice that he is one with the ball, and he could make that quality usefull on the footballfield. C Ronaldo is very different, because tricks is the way he plays. He even makes trick when it isnt nescecary.
And thats what makes a legend a legend. Maradona made the difference on his own.
c. ronaldo is way better than maradona ever was skillwise. and he's only 22. but i can agree that maradona has achieved way more and that ronaldo probably never will be able to do what maradona have done. maradona was, like you said, way ahead of his time. i agree. and because of him being way better than his opponents , he because a difference-maker. he could change the outcome of a match all by himself. sure. but that STILL doesn't make him better than the ones playing today skill wise. the difference now is that nowadays, its way harder to become ridiculously better than the opposition because of how things have evolved. for example center-backs are now playing COMPLETELY different compared to how they did 20 years ago. in a good team, the centerbacks know each other in and out, they play as one. not only that, nowadays the centerbacks have to be good with the head because of all the crosses the wingers plays. and since they're good with the head, they also becomes attacking thread during freekicks and corners.
give me the names of five amazing defensive midfielder between 1950-1980. my guess is that you dont even know the name of one player, because it hardly existed. the attackers had basically only the backs to worry about. watch today’s football, for example man u - fullham from last week. while man u played 4-4-2, fullham played 8-1-1, and i'm not exaggerating
-
IMO none of the players on that list are better than Diego Maradona between 1985 and 1990
Maradona had the ability to carry an ordinary Argentina team to the World Cup
He lifted not just a club in Napoli to the Seria A title but also the people
Maradona's balance when dribbling with a ball was the best that I have ever seen, he had such a low centre of gravity and the ability and speed that he could take people on and the vision he had was immense
You comment on the goal he scored when he beat a number of players I imagine that you are talking about England in Mexico 86, he did the same against Belgium (well he actually beat more players) and that is just one example
Yes technique improves and players get faster, but the equipment that players of today use is also a factor in this and the way that players look after themselves. Surely a player that was out drinking, general misbehaving and using older equipment will look less impressive than a player of today, but would a player of today been able to handle playing back then?
Think of the protection that a number of players on your list gets compared to the protection that a player like Maradona or Best or Pele or Cruyff or Garrincha or Van Basten got would today's players take this punishment and get back up and go at a player again or would they hide behind the refs or injuries?
Yes some of the players on the list are very impressive and could be considered some of the best of their generations but to compare RVN, Pauleta, Klose, Drogba, Stankovic, Adriano, Juninho Pernambucano etc to a great like Maradona is unfair and not very accurate IMO
Maradonas impressive "low center of gravity" might have something to do with him being 166cm.. And he had great pace, sure, but generally it’s easier for small people to sprint.
You’re right; a player today might now have made it back then, but you twisting the question. I said that the players of back then were not better than the players of today. But off course, given the same opportunity, for example, if Maradona started to play football today, he would become way better than he were back then. But still, the fact is that because of the opportunities he have been given develops into a way better player than a player back then. Honestly, I don’t see how people can question this.
So I stand by my words. I believe that the names that I wrote are playing better skillwise than Maradona did back then, though it does not mean that they’re opposing as great threat to the opposition as Maradona did, or that they can change the outcome of a game as quick and impulsively as Maradona could.
I
n summary, im saying that if Maradona were frozen during his peak and defrosted today and thrown into a football pitch, all the players I wrote would be better than him.
-
So I stand by my words. I believe that the names that I wrote are playing better skillwise than Maradona did back then, though it does not mean that they’re opposing as great threat to the opposition as Maradona did, or that they can change the outcome of a game as quick and impulsively as Maradona could.
In summary, im saying that if Maradona were frozen during his peak and defrosted today and thrown into a football pitch, all the players I wrote would be better than him.
You've got to be fucking kidding, or fucking stupid, to really "think" this. That goes for that bullshit list as well. There's a few players on there for whom such an argument could be made, but most of them are nowhere near the level Maradona was playing at. What's next? Wade > Jordan? Yao Ming > Kareem?
-
I agree to the extend that really old players should not be taken seriously. It might be condescending and disrespectful and I don't care. But you shouldn't clown players from the 80's and 90's that hard. Although I do agree that the likes of Oscar Robertson and Wilt Chamberlain wouldn't be anywhere near their status, let alone stats and impact if they sat in a time machine to play now.
-
So I stand by my words. I believe that the names that I wrote are playing better skillwise than Maradona did back then, though it does not mean that they’re opposing as great threat to the opposition as Maradona did, or that they can change the outcome of a game as quick and impulsively as Maradona could.
In summary, im saying that if Maradona were frozen during his peak and defrosted today and thrown into a football pitch, all the players I wrote would be better than him.
You've got to be fucking kidding, or fucking stupid, to really "think" this. That goes for that bullshit list as well. There's a few players on there for whom such an argument could be made, but most of them are nowhere near the level Maradona was playing at. What's next? Wade > Jordan? Yao Ming > Kareem?
lol.. i've come to this stage where i've stopped calling names over the internet. read my arguments, and if you choose to, respond properly. i'm not claiming that wade is better than jordan nor am i claiming that ming is better than kareem.
tell me how many matches with maradona you've actually seen? only a few i would guess.. right? most of the stuff you've seen are compilations. ii could make titus bramble look good with a compilation.
-
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around????? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.
lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.
many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then
::) @ this fools basketball intellect
i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff
let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever.. basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments
so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.
are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.
Players Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1 Robert Parish (70's) 1611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's) 1560
3 John Stockton (80's) 1422
4 Karl Malone (80's) 1353
5 Moses Malone (70's) 1329
6 Buck Williams (80's) 1307
7 Elvin Hayes (60's) 1303
8 John Havlicek (60's) 1270
9 Paul Silas (70's) 1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's) 1222
11 A.C. Green (80's) 1278
hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??
Players Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy 88 (1968-69)
Tom Henderson 87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore 86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard 86 (1975-76)
i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?
you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm
and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.
Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.
but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.
Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe
-
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around????? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.
lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.
many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then
::) @ this fools basketball intellect
i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff
let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever.. basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments
so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.
are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.
Players Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1 Robert Parish (70's) 1611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's) 1560
3 John Stockton (80's) 1422
4 Karl Malone (80's) 1353
5 Moses Malone (70's) 1329
6 Buck Williams (80's) 1307
7 Elvin Hayes (60's) 1303
8 John Havlicek (60's) 1270
9 Paul Silas (70's) 1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's) 1222
11 A.C. Green (80's) 1278
hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??
Players Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy 88 (1968-69)
Tom Henderson 87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore 86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard 86 (1975-76)
i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?
you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm
and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.
Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.
but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.
Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe
basketball in the 80's was good enough. it's basketball in the 70's and earlier i'm sceptic about
-
lol.. i've come to this stage where i've stopped calling names over the internet. read my arguments, and if you choose to, respond properly. i'm not claiming that wade is better than jordan nor am i claiming that ming is better than kareem.
tell me how many matches with maradona you've actually seen? only a few i would guess.. right? most of the stuff you've seen are compilations. ii could make titus bramble look good with a compilation.
I don't know the exact number of matches I've seen... but I've seen all of his 86 and 90 World Cup matches... and I've seen numerous Napoli games... maybe that's it... maybe most of the stuff YOU'VE seen is compilations because a lot of the players you've listed you can't even make an argument for being on the same level as Maradona, let alone make a claim for being better than him.
-
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around????? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.
lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.
many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then
::) @ this fools basketball intellect
i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff
let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever.. basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments
so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.
are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.
Players Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1 Robert Parish (70's) 1611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's) 1560
3 John Stockton (80's) 1422
4 Karl Malone (80's) 1353
5 Moses Malone (70's) 1329
6 Buck Williams (80's) 1307
7 Elvin Hayes (60's) 1303
8 John Havlicek (60's) 1270
9 Paul Silas (70's) 1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's) 1222
11 A.C. Green (80's) 1278
hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??
Players Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy 88 (1968-69)
Tom Henderson 87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore 86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard 86 (1975-76)
i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?
you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm
and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.
Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.
but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.
Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe
basketball in the 80's was good enough. it's basketball in the 70's and earlier i'm sceptic about
you threw in all those players like the games they played didn't mean anything
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's defese
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's allowed physicality
most of those players had the work ethic 10x that of nba players today
you're only making assumptions, it's clear it's useless to debate this with you as you havn't even studied the nba's history. afterall arn't you the same person who agreed with infinite that dr. dre was a better musician than bach and mozart
-
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around????? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.
lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.
many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then
::) @ this fools basketball intellect
i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff
let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever.. basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments
so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.
are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.
Players Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1 Robert Parish (70's) 1611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's) 1560
3 John Stockton (80's) 1422
4 Karl Malone (80's) 1353
5 Moses Malone (70's) 1329
6 Buck Williams (80's) 1307
7 Elvin Hayes (60's) 1303
8 John Havlicek (60's) 1270
9 Paul Silas (70's) 1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's) 1222
11 A.C. Green (80's) 1278
hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??
Players Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy 88 (1968-69)
Tom Henderson 87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore 86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard 86 (1975-76)
i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?
you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm
and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.
Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.
but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.
Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe
basketball in the 80's was good enough. it's basketball in the 70's and earlier i'm sceptic about
you threw in all those players like the games they played didn't mean anything
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's defese
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's allowed physicality
most of those players had the work ethic 10x that of nba players today
you're only making assumptions, it's clear it's useless to debate this with you as you havn't even studied the nba's history. afterall arn't you the same person who agreed with infinite that dr. dre was a better musician than bach and mozart
Lol jake. Are you suffering from amnesia? You got owned last time you claimed that I said that:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=81776.25
And here’s the original thread for you to read… again:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=9075.0
It’s a sad thing really if american athletes had their physical peak 1950-1970. 30 years have passed and they still haven’t found a way to have greater pace and strength. But off course, that’s only in team sports. When it comes to individual sports it’s move obvious because records are being broken all the time, even though they used to be juiced back then.
Athletes have been improving their skills in individual sports, but not in team sports… Right?
-
^^
I gotta disagree with you on this.
The thing what makes Maradona a GOAT is, he was ahead of his generation. You did name a lot of players that are really good and maybe even better then Maradona.
But Maradona made Argentina world champion. In a team that wouldn't been world champion without Maradona. Thats also the difference between Pele and Maradona. Brazil would've won the WC without Pele. Because they had a great team with fantastic players. Thats not the same thing with Maradona. His team wasn't that good that they would've won the WC without Maradona. Same thing can be said when he went to Napoli.
What youre saying about C Ronaldo is right. C Ronaldo knows a lot more and difficult tricks with the bal then Maradona. But if you saw Maradona play and you notice that he is one with the ball, and he could make that quality usefull on the footballfield. C Ronaldo is very different, because tricks is the way he plays. He even makes trick when it isnt nescecary.
And thats what makes a legend a legend. Maradona made the difference on his own.
c. ronaldo is way better than maradona ever was skillwise. and he's only 22. but i can agree that maradona has achieved way more and that ronaldo probably never will be able to do what maradona have done. maradona was, like you said, way ahead of his time. i agree. and because of him being way better than his opponents , he because a difference-maker. he could change the outcome of a match all by himself. sure. but that STILL doesn't make him better than the ones playing today skill wise. the difference now is that nowadays, its way harder to become ridiculously better than the opposition because of how things have evolved. for example center-backs are now playing COMPLETELY different compared to how they did 20 years ago. in a good team, the centerbacks know each other in and out, they play as one. not only that, nowadays the centerbacks have to be good with the head because of all the crosses the wingers plays. and since they're good with the head, they also becomes attacking thread during freekicks and corners.
give me the names of five amazing defensive midfielder between 1950-1980. my guess is that you dont even know the name of one player, because it hardly existed. the attackers had basically only the backs to worry about. watch today’s football, for example man u - fullham from last week. while man u played 4-4-2, fullham played 8-1-1, and i'm not exaggerating
Still the thing is, you said defenders now are a lot better thats true. But the forwards back were not as good as today. The game evolves, its a natural thing. Thats why when a player is that good in his era you gotta respect that. Thats why you have so little TRUE legends.
Define skill? What is skill? For me true skill, consists of more then only technique or what an indivdual player can do. Skill comprehensives a lot more then that. And just because C Ronaldo is good with the bal it SEEMS hes a very good player. But i rather have 11 Dirk Kuyt's in my team then 11 C Ronaldo's.
And Maradona was in a league of his own at the time. He understood the game better then anyone in his era. If C Ronaldo ever went back to Sporting Lissabon, and because of him they would win the CL, and he made Portugal win the WC, now that would be an extrodinairy thing, and then people would say that he is a football legend, and he is up there with players like Maradona and Pele.
-
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around????? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.
lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.
many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then
::) @ this fools basketball intellect
i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff
let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever.. basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments
so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.
are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.
Players Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1 Robert Parish (70's) 1611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's) 1560
3 John Stockton (80's) 1422
4 Karl Malone (80's) 1353
5 Moses Malone (70's) 1329
6 Buck Williams (80's) 1307
7 Elvin Hayes (60's) 1303
8 John Havlicek (60's) 1270
9 Paul Silas (70's) 1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's) 1222
11 A.C. Green (80's) 1278
hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??
Players Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy 88 (1968-69)
Tom Henderson 87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore 86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard 86 (1975-76)
i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?
you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm
and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.
Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.
but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.
Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe
basketball in the 80's was good enough. it's basketball in the 70's and earlier i'm sceptic about
you threw in all those players like the games they played didn't mean anything
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's defese
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's allowed physicality
most of those players had the work ethic 10x that of nba players today
you're only making assumptions, it's clear it's useless to debate this with you as you havn't even studied the nba's history. afterall arn't you the same person who agreed with infinite that dr. dre was a better musician than bach and mozart
Lol jake. Are you suffering from amnesia? You got owned last time you claimed that I said that:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=81776.25
And here’s the original thread for you to read… again:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=9075.0
It’s a sad thing really if american athletes had their physical peak 1950-1970. 30 years have passed and they still haven’t found a way to have greater pace and strength. But off course, that’s only in team sports. When it comes to individual sports it’s move obvious because records are being broken all the time, even though they used to be juiced back then.
Athletes have been improving their skills in individual sports, but not in team sports… Right?
You're not getting the point...Sure there have been advancements, but players like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Pete Maravich, etc. all had the skill and greatness in them to adapt to the game the way it's being played today, and it's not THAT much different. In fact, Pete Maravich is known as a player who woulda' fared much better in the league had he been playing in todays game...Greats are greats, that's how it's always been. Basketball is pretty much 90% mental, and all those players had more than the right amount of mental capacity to be legends amongst legends...If you disagree, explain a player like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who was able to excel in 3 seperate eras of basketball...You can't. You're speaking out of ignorance...
-
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around????? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.
lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.
many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then
::) @ this fools basketball intellect
i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff
let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever.. basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments
so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.
are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.
Players Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1 Robert Parish (70's) 1611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's) 1560
3 John Stockton (80's) 1422
4 Karl Malone (80's) 1353
5 Moses Malone (70's) 1329
6 Buck Williams (80's) 1307
7 Elvin Hayes (60's) 1303
8 John Havlicek (60's) 1270
9 Paul Silas (70's) 1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's) 1222
11 A.C. Green (80's) 1278
hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??
Players Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy 88 (1968-69)
Tom Henderson 87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore 86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard 86 (1975-76)
i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?
you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm
and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.
Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.
but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.
Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe
basketball in the 80's was good enough. it's basketball in the 70's and earlier i'm sceptic about
you threw in all those players like the games they played didn't mean anything
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's defese
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's allowed physicality
most of those players had the work ethic 10x that of nba players today
you're only making assumptions, it's clear it's useless to debate this with you as you havn't even studied the nba's history. afterall arn't you the same person who agreed with infinite that dr. dre was a better musician than bach and mozart
Lol jake. Are you suffering from amnesia? You got owned last time you claimed that I said that:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=81776.25
And here’s the original thread for you to read… again:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=9075.0
It’s a sad thing really if american athletes had their physical peak 1950-1970. 30 years have passed and they still haven’t found a way to have greater pace and strength. But off course, that’s only in team sports. When it comes to individual sports it’s move obvious because records are being broken all the time, even though they used to be juiced back then.
Athletes have been improving their skills in individual sports, but not in team sports… Right?
You're not getting the point...Sure there have been advancements, but players like Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Elgin Baylor, Pete Maravich, etc. all had the skill and greatness in them to adapt to the game the way it's being played today, and it's not THAT much different. In fact, Pete Maravich is known as a player who woulda' fared much better in the league had he been playing in todays game...Greats are greats, that's how it's always been. Basketball is pretty much 90% mental, and all those players had more than the right amount of mental capacity to be legends amongst legends...If you disagree, explain a player like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who was able to excel in 3 seperate eras of basketball...You can't. You're speaking out of ignorance...
Claiming that basketball is 90% mental is a good way of degrading the sport. But I'll tell you this: Football (and off course i mean REAL footbal, not yankball) have more to do with what you learn. Progress in tactics and skills can been seen each and every damn year. Just a couple of year ago, a no good country (Greece) managed to win the Erupean Cup, because of their boring, but higly effective, tactics.
BUT OK !!!
I'll accept your claim that americans have difficult finding new ways to progress in their sports, because thats basicly what you are saying..... right?
It even explains why you're getting whopped BIG TIME nowadays, not only in basketball, but also in hockey and baseball, so i guess you must be right.
-
Claiming that basketball is 90% mental is a good way of degrading the sport. But I'll tell you this: Football (and off course i mean REAL footbal, not yankball) have more to do with what you learn. Progress in tactics and skills can been seen each and every damn year. Just a couple of year ago, a no good country (Greece) managed to win the Erupean Cup, because of their boring, but higly effective, tactics.
BUT OK !!!
I'll accept your claim that americans have difficult finding new ways to progress in their sports, because thats basicly what you are saying..... right?
It even explains why you're getting whopped BIG TIME nowadays, not only in basketball, but also in hockey and baseball, so i guess you must be right.
You're amazing, homie...It's like you can't understand anything even if you try. Of course basketball is mostly mental...Pretty much everything we do in life is mostly mental. We could FLY if we used 100% of our brains...Nothing is degrading about that. The only think degrading in this whole conversation is your theory which you've based off ignorance. We can't find new ways to progress in our sports? The game is fine how it is, what the fuck are you talking about man? What do you expect? Scoring only allowed on dunks? 4 point lines? Come on now...Americans are unquestionably the best at basketball, that's why the NBA is the ultimate goal and the highest level for players across the globe. Try putting ANY European team against the worst NBA team, and they would get slaughtered...America hasn't been killing in international play because we don't prepare for that sort of thing, as opposed to the rest of the world who take it as an honor to be on the team and consider it something bigger than a championship game, causing them to prepare and condition for it...With the USA, our greatest players tend to decline invitations to world games, leaving us with rookies, scrubs, and college players on the team with limited preparation...Do you honestly believe that the USA team could be matched if it were:
PG Gilbert Arenas
SG Kobe Bryant
SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Kevin Garnett
C Tim Duncan
The answer is...HELL NO!
-
Claiming that basketball is 90% mental is a good way of degrading the sport. But I'll tell you this: Football (and off course i mean REAL footbal, not yankball) have more to do with what you learn. Progress in tactics and skills can been seen each and every damn year. Just a couple of year ago, a no good country (Greece) managed to win the Erupean Cup, because of their boring, but higly effective, tactics.
BUT OK !!!
I'll accept your claim that americans have difficult finding new ways to progress in their sports, because thats basicly what you are saying..... right?
It even explains why you're getting whopped BIG TIME nowadays, not only in basketball, but also in hockey and baseball, so i guess you must be right.
You're amazing, homie...It's like you can't understand anything even if you try. Of course basketball is mostly mental...Pretty much everything we do in life is mostly mental. We could FLY if we used 100% of our brains...Nothing is degrading about that. The only think degrading in this whole conversation is your theory which you've based off ignorance. We can't find new ways to progress in our sports? The game is fine how it is, what the fuck are you talking about man? What do you expect? Scoring only allowed on dunks? 4 point lines? Come on now...Americans are unquestionably the best at basketball, that's why the NBA is the ultimate goal and the highest level for players across the globe. Try putting ANY European team against the worst NBA team, and they would get slaughtered...America hasn't been killing in international play because we don't prepare for that sort of thing, as opposed to the rest of the world who take it as an honor to be on the team and consider it something bigger than a championship game, causing them to prepare and condition for it...With the USA, our greatest players tend to decline invitations to world games, leaving us with rookies, scrubs, and college players on the team with limited preparation...Do you honestly believe that the USA team could be matched if it were:
PG Gilbert Arenas
SG Kobe Bryant
SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Kevin Garnett
C Tim Duncan
The answer is...HELL NO!
LOL.... LMAO...ROMNFRLGALO(?)
its way to easy to score when there's no keeper..... i guess i'm done here
-
^^I guess you haven't heard of people levitating through meditation. What boggles my mind is how you were speaking like you're above all that "childish" shit a few posts back, then you go and put my quote in your sig...Sorta pathetic if you ask me. Then again, you have no arguments, because you're basing everything off of ignorance, so it's not really surprising...
-
^^I guess you haven't heard of people levitating through meditation. What boggles my mind is how you were speaking like you're above all that "childish" shit a few posts back, then you go and put my quote in your sig...Sorta pathetic if you ask me. Then again, you have no arguments, because you're basing everything off of ignorance, so it's not really surprising...
yeah... you're right... i'll remove it... i'm sorry (you see, i can admit when i'm wrong..). but dayem.. it's the line of the year.
BUT.. by having it, i just wanted to show people your ignorance, it's not like i called you stupid or similar... i just quoted something you said. if i said something degrading about your race, your apperance or similar things, then i would have been somebody i'm trying not to be.
sure, i've heard of levitation through meditation. i've also heard of voodoo. some people even claims that they can talk to animals. i remember some kid say "i see dead people". some guy claimed that there were weapons of mass destructions in iraq.
but that doesn't have to mean that they're telling the truth.
-
well... i know enough to be a basketball referee in the third highest division in sweden. sure swedish basketball may be shit, but i still understand theory and tactics more than the average guy.
ok that's like a Junior highschool history teacher in Hobokan Wisconsin, trying to Argue with a USC history teacher who went to vietnam and has Ph.D in the subject.......my cousin plays basketball for one of the best basketball systems in central california.....and i still know more about basketball than , him. the very fact that you'd discredit kareem abdul jabar....who in all fairness played through 3 of the greatest eras of basketball, discredits your whole argument
i don't watch old nba tapes during my free time, but from what i've seen the defense were often standing still like fussball-backs and allowed the opposition to score silly amounts of goal
ok you just stated that you don't watch old nba games. period. you have no right in this argument , then to say from what you have seen , which is close to nothing, the players just stood around????? wow that is the most ignorant thing i've seeen in a while , it's a known fact that players were more defensive minded and fundamentally sound back in the day.
and off course basketball evolves, if not how come usa are being raped by european teams nowaday.
because of what i said above, fundamentals! US teams these days are concentrated on selft where teams like Greece and Argentina are TEAM. they watching old nba tapes...
with all due respect jake, you need to take your eyes off the stats sheets and instead study the opposition jerry west faced.
lol did you just says take my eyes off the stat sheets? did you even read my post? i said stats didn't matter, it's about the raw talent and leadership those legendary players possed. jerry west faced tougher defenders .....YOU need to study the opposition.
many of then drank beer before and after the match (atleast in football they did), the pressure of succeeding was far from today's level. you could have alotta bad games and still be sure of your spot. nowadays, if you have a bad game, theres always dudes waiting to fill your spot.
wow , you just keep getting more and more ignorant. players probably drink beer before games now, i don't know, but what i do know is that there was just as much pressure to succeed as today. in AMERICA we didn't have playstation, computers, skateboarding, cable tv, ipods, dvd's , and cds.....SPORTS were emphasized very heavily, especially in big cities like philly and los angeles. so to say there was no pressure to succeed is BLASPHAMY .....this isn't sweden buddy. you weren't assured of your spot ....i don't know where you're pulling that one out of your ass...in an era of vince lambardi , you must be a) truely full of shit b) talking out your ass c) all of the above
i would guess that the avreage lifespan for a top-player to stay on top today is 4-7 years, whille it used to be 10-15 years in the 60's, why? becase back then, after a couple of years, you played because of your reputation, not because of your skills
actually the lifespans is about the same,lol there's unusual exceptions like kareem , parish, and even shaq, but all players it's about the same. and if anything it's the other way around.....back then you played based on your skills, egos weren't as big back then, now it's more based on your reputation as egos have risen
and not only that.. take all theese crazy-ass dribbles and fake shots players do nowadays. if being done to an old schooler, he would be fooled up to the stand
go look up pistol pete marivich, he didn't invent that style but he perfected it......yeah waaaaaay back then
::) @ this fools basketball intellect
i didn’t mean to hurt your feelings jake.. this is just a forum, so i won’t even respond calling you names and stuff
let swedish basketball be equal to junior alabama whatever.. basketball tactics are pretty international, not to mention that sweden are known for the quality of their referees (but surely i'm not one of them)
i just wanted to enlighten that I’m not a hardcore old-tape fan, but I’ve seen old kareem hooks where the opposition stands still like monuments
so usa have been playing like individuals for 2-3 championships in a row now? they dont know what they're doing wrong? i refuse to believe that even americans are that uhm.. stubborn.
are you telling me that american athletes in the 60's had the same pace and fitness as today’s american athletes? if that the case i don’t know what to say.
Players Games Played
----------------------------------------------
1 Robert Parish (70's) 1611
2 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (60's) 1560
3 John Stockton (80's) 1422
4 Karl Malone (80's) 1353
5 Moses Malone (70's) 1329
6 Buck Williams (80's) 1307
7 Elvin Hayes (60's) 1303
8 John Havlicek (60's) 1270
9 Paul Silas (70's) 1254
10 Sam Perkins (80's) 1222
11 A.C. Green (80's) 1278
hm... not a single one who were drafted in the 90's ... not even 87. ... hmmm. what’s funnier is that most those guys made around 15+ seasons each... if things haven't gotten tougher, there should surely be a couple of players there from the late 80's or early 90's on that list... but hey.. what do i know??
Players Most Games Season
---------------------------------------------------
Walt Bellamy 88 (1968-69)
Tom Henderson 87 (1976-77)
McCoy McLemore 86 (1970-71)
Garfield Heard 86 (1975-76)
i would imagine that to be fit enough to play that amount of matches today is highly unlikely. because of todays toughness, alot of players are injury proned. were they just that much fitter back then or was it just a little easier to play..... ?
you can find more fine numbers here..
http://www.rauzulusstreet.com/basketball/nbarecords/indservicerecords.htm
and i know, i told you to take your eyes of the stats-sheets, but i’m posting this numbers just to prove that i might not be completely wrong.
Pete Maravich?.. hm.. apparently the guy averaged 44 point/match (NCAA) without there being a 3pint-line... wow.. the defense must have been REALLY bad. ok.. i checked him out in youtube.. and yes, he was good. but i love the way the guards gave him room to breathe and take his field shots. tough defense? i think not.
but hey... i know that basketball is like a religion in USA (right after american football), you probably still think that i’m a total nutcase not knowing anything about basketball, so i'll just drop this.
Man, you simply have NO clue whatsoever what you're talking about...It's a given that players like Karl Malone, Sam Perkins, AC Green, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, etc played during a MUCH tougher and physical time period in basketball...I think you really can't make comments on this if you haven't watched enough tape. The defense in the NBA peaked around the mid-80's, but the defensive element in American basketball has ALWAYS existed...PeACe
basketball in the 80's was good enough. it's basketball in the 70's and earlier i'm sceptic about
you threw in all those players like the games they played didn't mean anything
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's defese
most of those players played at the peak of the nba's allowed physicality
most of those players had the work ethic 10x that of nba players today
you're only making assumptions, it's clear it's useless to debate this with you as you havn't even studied the nba's history. afterall arn't you the same person who agreed with infinite that dr. dre was a better musician than bach and mozart
Lol jake. Are you suffering from amnesia? You got owned last time you claimed that I said that:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=81776.25
And here’s the original thread for you to read… again:
http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/index.php?topic=9075.0
It’s a sad thing really if american athletes had their physical peak 1950-1970. 30 years have passed and they still haven’t found a way to have greater pace and strength. But off course, that’s only in team sports. When it comes to individual sports it’s move obvious because records are being broken all the time, even though they used to be juiced back then.
Athletes have been improving their skills in individual sports, but not in team sports… Right?
if anything it looks like you got owned buddy,lol wow i'm glad all that stuff isn't still in my memory (sorry i have a life)
-Jemmy Hendrix 10% genius? LMAO
lol okay back to the topic on hand oh ignorant one
players have gotten bigger and stronger in the last 30 years no one is debating that....what i meant by ALLOWED physicality peaked, was that people weren't getting ticky tack fouls for resting a forearm on someone, players were on the team to give fouls that were hard enough to be considered flagrant II fouls now. butof corse you wouldn't understand this because YOU SAID YOU DON"T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS ERA
-
^^I guess you haven't heard of people levitating through meditation. What boggles my mind is how you were speaking like you're above all that "childish" shit a few posts back, then you go and put my quote in your sig...Sorta pathetic if you ask me. Then again, you have no arguments, because you're basing everything off of ignorance, so it's not really surprising...
yeah... you're right... i'll remove it... i'm sorry (you see, i can admit when i'm wrong..). but dayem.. it's the line of the year.
BUT.. by having it, i just wanted to show people your ignorance, it's not like i called you by names or anything.. i just quoted something you said. if i said something degrading about your race, your apperance or similar thing, then i would have been somebody i'm trying not to be.
sure, i've heard of levitation through meditation. i've also heard of voodoo. some people even claims that they can talk to animals. i remember some kid say "i see dead people". some guy claimed that there were weapons of mass destructions in iraq.
but that doesn't have to mean that they're telling the truth.
It's not nearly as funny as you're trying to make it seem, many people believe in the power of telekinesis...But back to the main topic that you side-tracked from, you shouldn't make comments based on ignorance, and that's pretty much what you've done...You don't know enough about the history of the NBA and the progression of the game to formulate a credible opinion on it...You even admitted you haven't watched old-school footage, so what's the point? Try shooting down what I'm really getting at, instead of picking on my petty comments...PeACe
-
^^I guess you haven't heard of people levitating through meditation. What boggles my mind is how you were speaking like you're above all that "childish" shit a few posts back, then you go and put my quote in your sig...Sorta pathetic if you ask me. Then again, you have no arguments, because you're basing everything off of ignorance, so it's not really surprising...
yeah... you're right... i'll remove it... i'm sorry (you see, i can admit when i'm wrong..). but dayem.. it's the line of the year.
BUT.. by having it, i just wanted to show people your ignorance, it's not like i called you by names or anything.. i just quoted something you said. if i said something degrading about your race, your apperance or similar thing, then i would have been somebody i'm trying not to be.
sure, i've heard of levitation through meditation. i've also heard of voodoo. some people even claims that they can talk to animals. i remember some kid say "i see dead people". some guy claimed that there were weapons of mass destructions in iraq.
but that doesn't have to mean that they're telling the truth.
It's not nearly as funny as you're trying to make it seem, many people believe in the power of telekinesis...But back to the main topic that you side-tracked from, you shouldn't make comments based on ignorance, and that's pretty much what you've done...You don't know enough about the history of the NBA and the progression of the game to formulate a credible opinion on it...You even admitted you haven't watched old-school footage, so what's the point? Try shooting down what I'm really getting at, instead of picking on my petty comments...PeACe
nik... Do you know a bit about the laws of aerodynamic? Do you know why birds and big jumbo jet planes are able to fly? Because being able to fly have nothing to do with what you know. It has to do with what you're able to do within the reach of physic laws. Birds are extremely stupid creatures, but they can still fly. Some (stupid) people believe in telekinesis, sure, but it doesn’t mean that it’s possible for a man to move stuff with his mind if he used 100% of his brain. That’s science fiction.
I wrote about sports in general. I wasn’t specifically targeting basketball... and I don't need to be a hardcore fan to see that they imo played lousy basketball back then when TV was black and white. But I’ve given my opinion on that matter and I’ve given valid arguments also. You don’t have to agree with me, but it’s when people claim that my thoughts are “stupid and ignorant”, because I assure you, I know a thing or two about basketball. I’ve been playing it, I’m a referee and I’ve also been a coach (kids off course). I’m not just throwing words for the heck of it.
And Jake, let us just say that I never forget stuff, no matter how unimportant it might be. That’s a good thing imo.
But like I said: I will say nothing more about basketball, because you guys are taking it way too personally.
-
how can you you make ignorant comments if you admittedly don't know what you're talking about. if what you're saying is true ^. then racist rednecks are justified for believing what they believe about blacks and jews.
-
how can you you make ignorant comments if you admittedly don't know what you're talking about. if what you're saying is true ^. then racist rednecks are justified for believing what they believe about blacks and jews.
i didn't say that i don't know anything about old type of basketball. i said that i don't watch alot of old tapes during my freetime. there's a difference, but i can stop mentioning it, since i'm hurting some peoples feelings by stating my opinions.
-
You're not hurting feelings, you just sound ignorant on so many levels...
-
You're not hurting feelings, you just sound ignorant on so many levels...
i don't wanna repeat myself, but i can say this. i think you and jake seem ignorant when you're refusing to accept facts. i don't know what you're thinking when you're claiming that basketball have had no progression in skills for 50 years.
-
^^Another ignorant comment. Where did I claim there has been no progression in basketball for the last 50 years? There has been progression in the game and the way its played, not in the individuals or the skill level of the individuals. You can take greats from the past, put them in todays game, and they will adapt to the way it's played and excel in it, because they mastered the game. There has been progression, but it's not THAT much of a difference. The basics have always been the same...Try comprehending what we're saying...PeACe
-
how can you you make ignorant comments if you admittedly don't know what you're talking about. if what you're saying is true ^. then racist rednecks are justified for believing what they believe about blacks and jews.
i didn't say that i don't know anything about old type of basketball. i said that i don't watch alot of old tapes during my freetime. there's a difference, but i can stop mentioning it, since i'm hurting some peoples feelings by stating my opinions.
okay but still by your logic the kkk are justified for hanging blacks and burning down synagogs. truth be told, you can hide behind that pussy ass excuse "it's my opinion" but there's a difference between and educated opinion and an ignorant one. racist people like the kkk know about black people , hell they even live with them, it's their opinion that blacks are just monkies.....but that's an ignorant opinion. you my friend hold an ignorant one...do you know how i know? because i once held that belief until my grandpa schooled me, and he was teaching me basketball from the 1940's!
to state that players just stood around and let pete maravic and jerry west score at will is irnorant and so disrespectful. you'd have an argument about basketball from it's inception but we're not arguing that we're arguing the NBA from the 1960's forward to the 1980's. the 1960's was all about work ethic and giving it your all (the Lombardi era of sports) the 1970's was about creative innovations and the 1980's was a marriage of both of those eras. the 1990's was the jordan era and after (and arguably during the last part of ) all of this started to degenerate. basketball has gone down, work ethics (allen iverson: "practice, we're talking about practice.") Defense (pheonix suns/old mavericks) and professionalism ( r. wallace, pacers/pistons, c. anthony) have all gone down. If you watch those old tapes and actually study the players from the black and white tv era you'll have a better appreciation.