West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: Narrator on March 05, 2007, 12:39:52 PM
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This was posted on CNN today:
NEW YORK (AP) -- Maybe it was the umpteenth coke-dealing anthem or soft-porn music video. Perhaps it was the preening antics that some call reminiscent of Stepin Fetchit.
The turning point is hard to pinpoint. But after 30 years of growing popularity, rap music is now struggling with an alarming sales decline and growing criticism from within about the culture's negative effect on society.
Rap insider Chuck Creekmur, who runs the leading Web site Allhiphop.com, says he got a message from a friend recently "asking me to hook her up with some Red Hot Chili Peppers because she said she's through with rap. A lot of people are sick of rap ... the negativity is just over the top now."
The rapper Nas, considered one of the greats, challenged the condition of the art form when he titled his latest album "Hip-Hop is Dead." It's at least ailing, according to recent statistics: Though music sales are down overall, rap sales slid a whopping 21 percent from 2005 to 2006, and for the first time in 12 years no rap album was among the top 10 sellers of the year.
A recent study by the Black Youth Project showed a majority of youth think rap has too many violent images. In a poll of black Americans by The Associated Press and AOL-Black Voices last year, 50 percent of respondents said hip-hop was a negative force in American society.
Nicole Duncan-Smith grew up on rap, worked in the rap industry for years and is married to a hip-hop producer. She still listens to rap, but says it no longer speaks to or for her. She wrote the children's book "I Am Hip-Hop" partly to create something positive about rap for young children, including her 4-year-old daughter.
"I'm not removed from it, but I can't really tell the difference between Young Jeezy and Yung Joc. It's the same dumb stuff to me," says Duncan-Smith, 33. "I can't listen to that nonsense ... I can't listen to another black man talk about you don't come to the 'hood anymore and ghetto revivals ... I'm from the 'hood. How can you tell me you want to revive it? How about you want to change it? Rejuvenate it?"
Hip-hop also seems to be increasingly blamed for a variety of social ills. Studies have attempted to link it to everything from teen drug use to increased sexual activity among young girls.
Even the mayhem that broke out in Las Vegas during last week's NBA All-Star Game was blamed on hip-hoppers. "(NBA Commissioner) David Stern seriously needs to consider moving the event out of the country for the next couple of years in hopes that young, hip-hop hoodlums would find another event to terrorize," columnist Jason Whitlock, who is black, wrote on AOL.
While rap has been in essence pop music for years, and most rap consumers are white, some worry that the black community is suffering from hip-hop -- from the way America perceives blacks to the attitudes and images being adopted by black youth.
'Look at the music that gets us popular'
But the rapper David Banner derides the growing criticism as blacks joining America's attack on young black men who are only reflecting the crushing problems within their communities. Besides, he says, that's the kind of music America wants to hear.
"Look at the music that gets us popular -- 'Like a Pimp,' " says Banner, naming his hit.
"What makes it so difficult is to know that we need to be doing other things. But the truth is at least us talking about what we're talking about, we can bring certain things to the light," he says. "They want (black artists) to shuck and jive, but they don't want us to tell the real story because they're connected to it."
Criticism of hip-hop is certainly nothing new -- it's as much a part of the culture as the beats and rhymes. Among the early accusations were that rap wasn't true music, its lyrics were too raw, its street message too polarizing. But they rarely came from the youthful audience itself, which was enraptured with genre that defined them as none other could.
"As people within the hip-hop generation get older, I think the criticism is increasing," says author Bakari Kitwana, who is currently part of a lecture tour titled "Does Hip-Hop Hate Women?"
"There was a more of a tendency when we were younger to be more defensive of it," he adds.
During her '90s crusade against rap's habit of degrading women, the late black activist C. Dolores Tucker certainly had few allies within the hip-hop community, or even among young black women. Backed by folks like conservative Republican William Bennett, Tucker was vilified within rap circles.
In retrospect, "many of us weren't listening," says Tracy Denean Sharpley-Whiting, a professor at Vanderbilt University and author of the new book "Pimps Up, Ho's Down: Hip-Hop's Hold On Young Black Women."
"She was onto something, but most of us said, 'They're not calling me a bitch, they're not talking about me, they're talking about THOSE women.' But then it became clear that, you know what? Those women can be any women."
One rap fan, Bryan Hunt, made the searing documentary "Hip-Hop: Beyond Beats and Rhymes," which debuted on PBS this month. Hunt addresses the biggest criticisms of rap, from its treatment of women to the glorification of the gangsta lifestyle that has become the default posture for many of today's most popular rappers.
"I love hip-hop," Hunt, 36, says in the documentary. "I sometimes feel bad for criticizing hip-hop, but I want to get us men to take a look at ourselves."
Even dances that may seem innocuous are not above the fray. Last summer, as the "Chicken Noodle Soup" song and accompanying dance became a sensation, Baltimore Sun pop critic Rashod D. Ollison mused that the dance -- demonstrated in the video by young people stomping wildly from side to side -- was part of the growing minstrelization of rap music.
"The music, dances and images in the video are clearly reminiscent of the era when pop culture reduced blacks to caricatures: lazy 'coons,' grinning 'pickaninnies,' sexually super-charged 'bucks,' " he wrote.
And then there's the criminal aspect that has long been a part of rap. In the '70s, groups may have rapped about drug dealing and street violence, but rap stars weren't the embodiment of criminals themselves. Today, the most popular and successful rappers boast about who has murdered more foes and rhyme about dealing drugs as breezily as other artists sing about love.
Creekmur says music labels have overfed the public on gangsta rap, obscuring artists who represent more positive and varied aspects of black life, like Talib Kweli, Common and Lupe Fiasco.
"It boils down to a complete lack of balance, and whenever there's a complete lack of balance people are going to reject it, whether it's positive or negative," Creekmur says.
Yet Banner says there's a reason why acts like KRS-One and Public Enemy don't sell anymore. He recalled that even his own fans rebuffed positive songs he made -- like "Cadillac on 22s," about staying away from street life -- in favor of songs like "Like a Pimp."
"The American public had an opportunity to pick what they wanted from David Banner," he says. "I wish America would just be honest. America is sick. ... America loves violence and sex."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Music/03/05/music.rapbacklash.ap/index.html
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" ..the negativity is just over the top now."
Is people startin' to get it?? Wowww.
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yeah its called "crunk" "bling bling" "iced out grills" "candy paint" BULLSHIT RADIO CLUB USIC!
fuckin sucks
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I think people just don't know what's bubbling underground.. they only hear mainstream which all mainstream isn't that bad but alot of it portrays what that article is talking about. I blame it on Record Execs that have been trying to push that style of music instead of some of the dope underground rappers that deserve to shine...
I hate to say it but America needs the Great White Hope to get back to some dope rapping and get the fans buzzing again. We also need a Up in Smoke 2 Tour!!!
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" ..the negativity is just over the top now."
Is people startin' to get it?? Wowww.
That is true. Hip-hop is definitely WAY more negative than it used to be. That's my biggest problem with it.
10-15 years ago, it was pretty easy to dismiss rap critics like C. Delores Tucker as a bunch of stupid old folks who were just caught up in a generational gap...the old "parents just don't understand" adage. But nowadays, let's face it - a lot of the most vehement criticism of hip-hop is coming from hip-hop fans and even rappers themselves. Nas' "Hip-Hop Is Dead" is just the icing on the cake...it says a lot about a genre when its own fans and practioners are getting upset with it.
yeah its called "crunk" "bling bling" "iced out grills" "candy paint" BULLSHIT RADIO CLUB USIC!
fuckin sucks
Another suburban dumbass trying to pretend he knows what's up. I haven't heard anyone say "bling bling" in a popular rap song in about 5 years now...have you? Some of the most popular rappers on the radio right now are the "trap stars" like T.I. and Young Jeezy who brag about how coke they push and how "gutta" they are...which is exactly the opposite of the blinged-out shit.
Being "club" or "radio"-oriented isn't the problem. Some of the best hip-hop (and the first hip-hop) ever made was radio/club-oriented and even materialistic...are you gonna tell me Run-DMC was bullshit cause they made a song called "My Adidas"? The problem is how negative and repetitive hip-hop has become. There's no room to be creative and have fun anymore, and that IS a result of the white devils sitting on the top pulling the strings.
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There's so much to agrue about this topic that we just let it be alone becuz it's gettin' nowhere. :-\
Like the article is sayin', stop buyin', and I don't mean..instead download it, I mean stop buyin' and supportin' what's coming out, they'll get it sooner or later. Let the sales fall.
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I mean stop buyin' and supportin' what's coming out, they'll get it sooner or later. Let the sales fall.
That's a point I can agree with. If hip-hop sales are falling (and I think we can all agree, statistics aside, that that's the case judging by how few rappers went Platinum last year), then it does mean the end of the record industry fucking up the genre for commercial gain.
On the other hand, I gotta sympathize with some of these cats who stand to lose from it cause they are just trying to make a living for themselves and support the fam, just like everyone else in the world. The fat fuck old white men at the top who get rich exploiting them aren't as sympathetic (and should be put to death when my revolution starts).
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I just think it's more of lacking balance and creativity. If those 2 things were respected I don't think there would be near the problems. Mainstream media and labels seem to be only interested in telling one side of the story.
But as I've been saying, I'm hoping sales continue to plummet. I'm ready for the downfall of the remaining labels and a whole new approach to how the game is approached. I hope everybody goes indie, and the artists are able to think for themselves and do the music that THEY want, not what an exec thinks should be pushed.
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^^^^TRUTH!!!
i am sick to death of reasons such as the south is only to blame and so on!
what the game needs is balancings man! more man managment cuz lets be real, niggas in hiphop like rockstars, they got egos and aint easy to manage....and who wants to be a niggaz manager to be real with ya? you gon end up gettin shot in ass if you one of the lucky ones!
shiiiiiit.....BALANCING is the key word....people think the south is killing hiphop....and shit some of the shit they dropping is garbage, but what people do not realise is that they actually holdiin hiphop to a certain extent too...they aint tryna be something they aint, they aint tryna cheat niggaz out they money, u know u getting good party music if u gon go to a regular south cat, they holding each other down and they selling records...shiiit! it is on the east and west that nigga be alienated! niggas on the west still livin in they own world apart from a few niggaz, they need to get with the times....both producers and rappers....eastcoast niggas need to stop tryna get on some south tip and expect luv from the west....do what you best at....get some eastcoast flavour, get a muthafuckin story and rap nigga! drop something different for a first single.....
execs and labels also need to stop catergorizing all hiphop niggaz the same....u need to be able to reach your audience....how u gone expect a 40yr old rakim to get young cats to cop his cd with a hiphop club jam....ra cannot do that today....but he could get them with some real baning lyrical shit....damn even if they dont get it, niggaz will be like, yeah that a celever cat, imma cop it....word of mouf, street rep, do not underestimate!
u know i was babbling some random bullshit there but i got so much to say, i could type for dayz on this matter if a nigga was on steriods, but hell naww...imma split
peace
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But as I've been saying, I'm hoping sales continue to plummet. I'm ready for the downfall of the remaining labels and a whole new approach to how the game is approached. I hope everybody goes indie, and the artists are able to think for themselves and do the music that THEY want, not what an exec thinks should be pushed.
Not only is that an unrealistic goal, but I don't see why you'd want it, either. You can hate it all you want, but rappers got a right to wanna get paid, not just to do shit for the love of the music or whatever. Who the fuck DOESN'T want to be rich and successful? Besides, even if the industry isn't geared towards creativity in its decision-making processes, artists DO gain more latitude to be creative on their albums when they've acquired a good selling average over the years. Nas just put out one of his best and most creative albums on Def Jam, after all.
I just don't want labels to make hip-hop into a complete industry unto itself. There was a time when rappers could cross over and still show skill and creativity and make great music while still getting the paper, and that's how it should be. Of course, I'm not naive enough to think that's ever gonna change either. I think what's gonna happen is that hip-hop is simply gonna keep selling less and less over the next few years until the industry (and the mainstream) lose interest in it and start trimming their rosters, and only the most commercially reliable rappers (i.e. Snoop, Eminem, Jay, Luda, Nas, maybe even 50) will be left standing. Like hip-hop becoming the commodity it was (and still is) for most of the decade, that will be a good and a bad thing.
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Yeah, when it becomes impossible for record labels to realistically make money of generic rap acts who love gigantic rims, big bootie bitches and large bank accounts those acts will stop getting signed. When that happends upcoming rappers will recognize what sells and what doesn't and change their style. It's pathetic when over 80% of an entire genre is considered completely devoid of creativity, positivity or any real socially redeeming qualities.
And LMAO at David banners "positive" records about "Cadillac's on 22's" ... these guys are so fucking clueless.
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And LMAO at David banners "positive" records about "Cadillac's on 22's" ... these guys are so fucking clueless.
You ever heard that song? Here are the lyrics:
http://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/d_banner/miss/cadion22.ban.txt
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And LMAO at David banners "positive" records about "Cadillac's on 22's" ... these guys are so fucking clueless.
You ever heard that song? Here are the lyrics:
http://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/d_banner/miss/cadion22.ban.txt
Ha, actually the lyrics I read must have been from a different song. Lol, I was reading them like "what the fuck this is horrible" but this is actually appropriate. My mistake, thanks for pointing that out! 8)
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But as I've been saying, I'm hoping sales continue to plummet. I'm ready for the downfall of the remaining labels and a whole new approach to how the game is approached. I hope everybody goes indie, and the artists are able to think for themselves and do the music that THEY want, not what an exec thinks should be pushed.
Not only is that an unrealistic goal, but I don't see why you'd want it, either. You can hate it all you want, but rappers got a right to wanna get paid, not just to do shit for the love of the music or whatever. Who the fuck DOESN'T want to be rich and successful? Besides, even if the industry isn't geared towards creativity in its decision-making processes, artists DO gain more latitude to be creative on their albums when they've acquired a good selling average over the years. Nas just put out one of his best and most creative albums on Def Jam, after all.
I just don't want labels to make hip-hop into a complete industry unto itself. There was a time when rappers could cross over and still show skill and creativity and make great music while still getting the paper, and that's how it should be. Of course, I'm not naive enough to think that's ever gonna change either. I think what's gonna happen is that hip-hop is simply gonna keep selling less and less over the next few years until the industry (and the mainstream) lose interest in it and start trimming their rosters, and only the most commercially reliable rappers (i.e. Snoop, Eminem, Jay, Luda, Nas, maybe even 50) will be left standing. Like hip-hop becoming the commodity it was (and still is) for most of the decade, that will be a good and a bad thing.
Your 1st paragraph was completely unrelated to anything in my post. You must be lonely tonight and want some attention huh?
LOL, when did I say artists don't have a right to get paid? Don't make baseless statements. I've said a million times I'll never knock another mans hustle to get money. When did I say they shouldn't want to be rich and successful? Coolio mighta said if hip hop didn't pay, he'd rap for free but we all know he's lyin. More power to any hustler pimpin the game and getting stupid rich. Shit I do it everyday (except for the getting stupid rich part but I'm workin on it).
If you re-read my post, you'll see that I stated there needs to be a whole new mentality when it comes to selling albums on a massive scale. The strategic plan is fatally flawed because the people in charge don't really understand what they're doing. They're applying blanket business principals that in their mind should equal success. But the thing that makes music universally appealling and transcendant of time / age / place is intangible. It can only be done by those that have the gift for it, not for who has the best marketing plan. And that's why the industry is by and large a joke and why it's failing. The wrong people are in positions of power.
But you wanna keep talking the business side? I'll tell you the ills of the industry in business terms. The record business was MUCH healthier when there was multiple labels. It's SOOOOOO much on an oligopolistic tip and it's fucking itself.
Bling Bling was brought up earlier. Bling Bling did NOT kill hip hop. Everybody and their fucking dog that copied that style to the T for sheer exploitation DID. Now am I mad at those dudes for seeing that exploitation and pimpin it? Not at all. But don't repeatedly shove that shit down my throat and tell me its dinner cuz it's not. And anybody that doesn't realize that they are being played by that exploitation? Thats on them - I PITY THE FOOL. But the majority of mainstream is only catering to the dummy. Dummies deserve music as much as me, don't get me twisted. But there has to be a balance, and that is what is really missing.
As far as my idealogical industry, it's not unrealistic at all. Do you have any idea how many labels have either folded or been acquired by conglomerates in the last few years? There's basically 4 majors left. That's it, lol. Labels are dying out and getting extremely desperate. Do I think it's gonna be some like Mad Max shit with a scorched earth and the only people left standing are indie artists? No. But it's shaken considerably and there are already positives coming out of it. Take Koch Records - they're one of my favorite labels, but only because they're not a traditional label. They do what, distribution, some promo and shit like that, but they don't control the type of music their acts put out. They're on a much smaller scale. Labels like that are much healthier for the game.
And your point about Nas gaining more latitude since joining Def Jam is moot. Nas been having artistic freedom for years. If anything he sacrificed some going to Def Jam - you think it's a coincidence that Scott Storch and Will.I.Am are on there? What about Snoop, Game, Jigga, Marsha from Floetry, Chrisette Michelle, etc. Nas DEF made some concessions.
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i dunno about yall homies but the older im getting the less rap i listen.Im pretty much almost done with rap its just to much bs that goes on with it and alot these new artist seem to sound alike rapping about their baller/pimp/grillz/Bitches/Money/Mafia.....oh forget it fucking Nas was wrong he should have named his album hip hop is dying.
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Rap music has just gotten to immature. Label's continually tried to cater to a wider, dumber, and younger catergraphic and it worked short term. But in the long run is killed/is killing them. Mainstream fans have no loyalty to hip-hop and it's showing. The dumbed down hip-hop to the point were most actual hip-hop fans wanted nothing to do with what they heard on the radio or what they saw on TV. A lot of them did like were doing and use the internet as a tool to find dope artists. But you wouldn't believe how many people I've met that say they stopped listening to hip-hop music because its wack and the only hip-hop they listen to anymore is the classics/old school. And sales are declining because of it (also illegal downloading, but that's a whole other discussion). Now label execs have to continue to try and commercialize rap out of desperation so that mainstream fans will still listen to it. At the same time, they want to spend as little money as possible on an artist, so creating pop songs to get radio play is another tool they try to use. It is working to some degree, but now sales are on the decline and more artists are going independent. Major labels are fucking themselves as they are making money.
The strategic plan is fatally flawed because the people in charge don't really understand what they're doing. They're applying blanket business principals that in their mind should equal success. But the thing that makes music universally appealling and transcendant of time / age / place is intangible. It can only be done by those that have the gift for it, not for who has the best marketing plan. And that's why the industry is by and large a joke and why it's failing. The wrong people are in positions of power.
On point.
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Rap music has just gotten to immature. Label's continually tried to cater to a wider, dumber, and younger catergraphic and it worked short term.
That's cuz kids is runnin' the industry.
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i dunno about yall homies but the older im getting the less rap i listen.Im pretty much almost done with rap its just to much bs that goes on with it and alot these new artist seem to sound alike rapping about their baller/pimp/grillz/Bitches/Money/Mafia.....
word.
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Mainstream media and labels seem to be only interested in telling one side of the story.
Same with everything.
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And LMAO at David banners "positive" records about "Cadillac's on 22's" ... these guys are so fucking clueless.
You ever heard that song? Here are the lyrics:
http://www.ohhla.com/anonymous/d_banner/miss/cadion22.ban.txt
wOA!!!
Am diggin this!!
Tha lYrics are not bad..i gotta be honest, i was kinda expecting sum *ridin on Ma 22**..blah blah..blah..
But boy was i wrong!!!!!!!!!!!
Good looking out on clearing that up!!
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Your 1st paragraph was completely unrelated to anything in my post. You must be lonely tonight and want some attention huh?
Considering you're the one who sounds pissed off about something in that post, I'd say that sentence was a bit of psychological projection right there. If the 1st paragraph was unrelated, why did you respond to it?
I agree with some of the points you made, but since it's obviously that time of the month for you, I'll leave you alone to bleed.
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" ..the negativity is just over the top now."
Is people startin' to get it?? Wowww.
That is true. Hip-hop is definitely WAY more negative than it used to be. That's my biggest problem with it.
10-15 years ago, it was pretty easy to dismiss rap critics like C. Delores Tucker as a bunch of stupid old folks who were just caught up in a generational gap...the old "parents just don't understand" adage. But nowadays, let's face it - a lot of the most vehement criticism of hip-hop is coming from hip-hop fans and even rappers themselves. Nas' "Hip-Hop Is Dead" is just the icing on the cake...it says a lot about a genre when its own fans and practioners are getting upset with it.
yeah its called "crunk" "bling bling" "iced out grills" "candy paint" BULLSHIT RADIO CLUB USIC!
fuckin sucks
Another suburban dumbass trying to pretend he knows what's up. I haven't heard anyone say "bling bling" in a popular rap song in about 5 years now...have you? Some of the most popular rappers on the radio right now are the "trap stars" like T.I. and Young Jeezy who brag about how coke they push and how "gutta" they are...which is exactly the opposite of the blinged-out shit.
Being "club" or "radio"-oriented isn't the problem. Some of the best hip-hop (and the first hip-hop) ever made was radio/club-oriented and even materialistic...are you gonna tell me Run-DMC was bullshit cause they made a song called "My Adidas"? The problem is how negative and repetitive hip-hop has become. There's no room to be creative and have fun anymore, and that IS a result of the white devils sitting on the top pulling the strings.
nothing left to say after this post
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There is another side to the problem as far as lack of creativity is concerned than just the white "devils" who push to release the negative style. Chuck D brought this up once a while back; in the old days young rappers coming up were listening to various styles of music. Be it funk, soul, rock, blues, or jazz, they used these styles from songs that they loved and incorperated it into their own music. These days most the young rappers and producers only really know hip hop and dismiss most everything else outside of a catchy bass line or piano melody they want to sample. They have no real appreciation for other styles and don't understand them enough to really learn from them. A lot of that has to do with the supression of the artist at the street level. In the ghetto it's not so acceptable to embrace poetry or literature unless it's ghetto or ghetto-relatable. A lot of times it's not the artist in some of these young guys coming out. It's the front. The same front they put on in the streets to appease the mainstream thug population. The same front that leads them to spend more time battle rapping with gun and thug imagery than rapping introspective emotional testimonials. If that were to ever leave the rap scene on the street level then you'd get rappers coming out that have the confidence to be artistic and the appreciation of all art to know how to make good art. Otherwise the white CEOs could leave it alone completely and you'd still have a lack of creativity, or at least not nearly as much creativity as possible.
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There is another side to the problem as far as lack of creativity is concerned than just the white "devils" who push to release the negative style. Chuck D brought this up once a while back; in the old days young rappers coming up were listening to various styles of music. Be it funk, soul, rock, blues, or jazz, they used these styles from songs that they loved and incorperated it into their own music. These days most the young rappers and producers only really know hip hop and dismiss most everything else outside of a catchy bass line or piano melody they want to sample. They have no real appreciation for other styles and don't understand them enough to really learn from them. A lot of that has to do with the supression of the artist at the street level. In the ghetto it's not so acceptable to embrace poetry or literature unless it's ghetto or ghetto-relatable. A lot of times it's not the artist in some of these young guys coming out. It's the front. The same front they put on in the streets to appease the mainstream thug population. The same front that leads them to spend more time battle rapping with gun and thug imagery than rapping introspective emotional testimonials. If that were to ever leave the rap scene on the street level then you'd get rappers coming out that have the confidence to be artistic and the appreciation of all art to know how to make good art. Otherwise the white CEOs could leave it alone completely and you'd still have a lack of creativity, or at least not nearly as much creativity as possible.
I never thought of this, but your right. Back in early 90's, the west was sampling different music like Roger and Zapp, and Parliment/Funkadelic, where as the East was sampling more James Brown, and the south had the whole Miami bass going. Over time ,their sounds in each region all seemed to start sounding the same. It started in the mid-90's, listen to Makaveli and Life After Death, production was pretty simular. But even then, Hip-Hop was still ok. It's the fact that many younger rappers have no musical diversity in terms of lyrical content. They didn't hear songs about protest in the 60's and 70's, shit, they don't even remember Public Enemy and NWA of the 80's. To them, Biggie's and Jay-Z's crack rap, and the thug image of 2Pac and Snoop's gangsta rap are what this generation idolized. Instead of building on Hip-Hop, they build on the the streets. Hip-Hop is expression from the streets, and it was originally party music. It is true that Nelly's Air Force 1's is as Hip-Hop as Run-DMC's My Addidas, but at the same time, there is no tracks out there to balence it out. KRS-One said that commercial rap is needed, it's good for the music, but there has to be a balence. The balence has been off since 2004. Before that, it was pretty bad, but I haven't felt that Hip-Hop was alive since College Dropout. That's the last Hip-Hop album out since this winter brought us Nas and Game. I do think that this discusion though is good, as it's forcing Hip-Hop to look inside, and figure out what side it will go.
On a side note, I still think Hip-Hop is more bought than dead. Large labels still decide what is released, as oppose to the 80's, early 90's when most Hip-Hop was released on independed labels.
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and i cant believe you take this guerilla dude, aka whiteboy with selfcomplex, so seriously. do you really think it is white people who are messing up hiphop? do you really think that white people make rappers make their cd's as they are now? do you think they write their raps?
lol @ you. white people are only in "higher" ranks in the record industry since rapping isnt an option for them. hiphop is becoming more and more an universal music style, with all cultures and races participating, which i can only encourage, since its a good thing against discrimination and so on.
but back when the biggest labels were formed, did you see a eminem rap? a bubba sparxx? hell no, there was maybe 2 or 3 white people who were known in the mainstream. back then white people werent really accepted as rappers, since it was "black music". so as a white person interested in hiphop what would you do? not rap, but at least do something related to rap, so it leads to those functions they have now, as ceo's and managers.
you cant blame a "race" for fucking up music, that shows how limited your brain is guerilla. you cant think outside the box, in this case the box is your racial thoughts, so you start babbling stuff without having anything to back it up.
even IF a (white) ceo would say "you go make that sorta music on this album cause its popular right now and were gonna sell loads more with this, so you go make this". A rapper has 2 choices, either he's gonna make his own music no matter what hes been told (like immortal technique for example) or hes gonna follow the ceo (busta rhymes for example) and make money of it. see in the end its all about the money, always has been, always will be. but the point is that you have to find a balance between earning your loan and contribute to hiphop, since picking just one side isnt really gonna be positive for you.
and the rapper who picks the ceo's choice is just as bad, since he does it for the money as well, so blaming ceo's is kinda lame too. no matter if theyre black, white, yellow, green or red. in the end the rapper makes his album so HE himself should be judged by it, if he only follows the ceo on what to do, then sorry but youre not a real man (let alone a rapper).
so yeah. blaming "white people" for today's hiphop is kinda stupid, and doing that just makes you seem ignorant, but ill leave you with the thoughts that youre a "god" and im a "cracker", but i must point out 1 thing tho, a god doesnt discriminate, he takes very piece of mankind as his own son, which i dont see you doing, so im sure in your religion a god is not like this, i have been thought he is tho, so yeah....
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and i cant believe you take this guerilla dude, aka whiteboy with selfcomplex, so seriously. do you really think it is white people who are messing up hiphop? do you really think that white people make rappers make their cd's as they are now? do you think they write their raps?
lol @ you. white people are only in "higher" ranks in the record industry since rapping isnt an option for them. hiphop is becoming more and more an universal music style, with all cultures and races participating, which i can only encourage, since its a good thing against discrimination and so on.
but back when the biggest labels were formed, did you see a eminem rap? a bubba sparxx? hell no, there was maybe 2 or 3 white people who were known in the mainstream. back then white people werent really accepted as rappers, since it was "black music". so as a white person interested in hiphop what would you do? not rap, but at least do something related to rap, so it leads to those functions they have now, as ceo's and managers.
you cant blame a "race" for fucking up music, that shows how limited your brain is guerilla. you cant think outside the box, in this case the box is your racial thoughts, so you start babbling stuff without having anything to back it up.
even IF a (white) ceo would say "you go make that sorta music on this album cause its popular right now and were gonna sell loads more with this, so you go make this". A rapper has 2 choices, either he's gonna make his own music no matter what hes been told (like immortal technique for example) or hes gonna follow the ceo (busta rhymes for example) and make money of it. see in the end its all about the money, always has been, always will be. but the point is that you have to find a balance between earning your loan and contribute to hiphop, since picking just one side isnt really gonna be positive for you.
and the rapper who picks the ceo's choice is just as bad, since he does it for the money as well, so blaming ceo's is kinda lame too. no matter if theyre black, white, yellow, green or red. in the end the rapper makes his album so HE himself should be judged by it, if he only follows the ceo on what to do, then sorry but youre not a real man (let alone a rapper).
so yeah. blaming "white people" for today's hiphop is kinda stupid, and doing that just makes you seem ignorant, but ill leave you with the thoughts that youre a "god" and im a "cracker", but i must point out 1 thing tho, a god doesnt discriminate, he takes very piece of mankind as his own son, which i dont see you doing, so im sure in your religion a god is not like this, i have been thought he is tho, so yeah....
it's not the race dogg... it's the MONEY that's killing HipHop
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i was talking to the "cracker-hater" guerilla, and yeah i agree, the money is killing it, but its kinda ironic, cuz without the money hiphop wouldnt be as big as it is nowadays....
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i was talking to the "cracker-hater" guerilla, and yeah i agree, the money is killing it, but its kinda ironic, cuz without the money hiphop wouldnt be as big as it is nowadays....
the funny thing is money is something that can be used for good, but too much will currupt anything.
Hip-Hop wanted to gain money to spread the culture. The peak was the early 90's, as Def Jam was still independent, Death Row, Ruthless, Bad Boy, Priority, No Limit, Tommy Boy, Jive were all major independent labels, and once those labels began merging with the 5 major labels, Hip-Hop began to become watered down, highlighted when Def Jam went under the Sony's control. Russell Simmons in now a VERY rich man, but in the big picture, that move did more to sell out Hip-Hop than any other label. I think the falling of MCA shortly after signing a distrubtion deal with Rawkus, and Loud's falling was the sign that raw underground Hip-Hop was too risky, and major labels began putting out radio friendly music. Interscope gave the Black Eye Peas Fergie, and other labels began following a formula. All this for money. And they found artist that would agree with this.
The weird thing is that the south has many independent act, yet, they put out as much harmful music to Hip-Hop as the major labels. This comes from the current generation taking from the mid 90's, instead of the message, they took the surface. Jay-Z, 2Pac, Biggie, Nas, Snoop, they all spoke on some real shit, and next generation took the message as the thug message. 2Pac spoke his feelings, and the next generation took his thug appeal, Biggie spoke on struggles, the next generation took chopping rocks, Jigga spoke on the hustle, the next generation took the money, Nas spoke on street stories, the next generation took the gun clapping, Snoop spoke on his stories of bitches who cheated and what not, the next generation took that all woman are bitches and hoes. Artist like Ice Cube and Public Enemy, who were the biggest acts of the late 80's, early 90's, now are forgotten. They are side notes. The next generation took from those that they idolized, but misrepresented the message. And now radio is larger than ever, they dictate what the public hears, and instead of putting out some good independent music, and you know independent labels ship them the singles because as a college radio director, you heard everything (that's how I heard singles off Thy Kingdom Come back in the day) so you can imagion what gets sent to Hot 97 and Power 106. But radio filters it, even chosing to keep out good mainstream music, in favor of different remakes of Lean Back, we had Shoulder Lean, and now Fat Joes new track. In the 80's and 90's, Hip-Hop was diverse. In LA, you'd hear Mass Appeal, Nuthin' But A G Thang, Slam, Cool Like That, and Insane in the Brain back to back. Labels and Radio have found out what sells now, and it's ruining Hip-Hop.
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What's funny is pretty much everyone they spoke with was in their 30s. They were into Hip Hop during some of its most violent and sexual times with acts like 2 Live Crew, Snoop, N.W.A., Too Short, Ice T, Geto Boys etc. This era had dances like the Tootsie Roll, The Train, Da Dip, all that shit. So why is it an issue now? Probably because these old bastards are no longer "hip" enough to relate to it. They're upset cuz their artists are no longer relevant in Hip Hop anymore. Shits tired already. Why not interview some 20 something fans of Hip Hop? LMAO@ Only interviewing cats who think as one sided as the reporter himself.
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What's funny is pretty much everyone they spoke with was in their 30s. They were into Hip Hop during some of its most violent and sexual times with acts like 2 Live Crew, Snoop, N.W.A., Too Short, Ice T, Geto Boys etc. This era had dances like the Tootsie Roll, The Train, Da Dip, all that shit. So why is it an issue now? Probably because these old bastards are no longer "hip" enough to relate to it. They're upset cuz their artists are no longer relevant in Hip Hop anymore. Shits tired already. Why not interview some 20 something fans of Hip Hop? LMAO@ Only interviewing cats who think as one sided as the reporter himself.
it's not the content really, it's the lack of diversity. I'm in my 20's, and I think that the diversity in Hip-Hop is gone, regional sounds now blended together and one universal sound, creativity gone, and the same rematch of Lean Back is on the radio 24/7. I was cool with Tooties Roll, Da Dip, gangsta rap like NWA, but not everyone has to be like that. In the old say days, you couldn't speak on street shit or the streets would pull you ghetto card. Now Hip-Hop is bought, sold and currupted. Not saying the shit on the radio ain't hot, there's a reason it's selling. But Public Enemy was the biggest sellers on the late 80's, 2Pac's Me Against the World was double platinum before his death, ah hell, Kanye West had a mainly positive message on College Dropout (I'm saying it's positive 'cause how many innercity kids even graduate high school, speaking on college is HUGE good or bad) and he went 3 times platinum just 3 years ago, and his still a top selling artist. We can have our Shoulder Leans, and our Lean Wit' It, but having Jesus Walks on the radio isn't bad either.
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What's funny is pretty much everyone they spoke with was in their 30s. They were into Hip Hop during some of its most violent and sexual times with acts like 2 Live Crew, Snoop, N.W.A., Too Short, Ice T, Geto Boys etc. This era had dances like the Tootsie Roll, The Train, Da Dip, all that shit. So why is it an issue now? Probably because these old bastards are no longer "hip" enough to relate to it. They're upset cuz their artists are no longer relevant in Hip Hop anymore. Shits tired already. Why not interview some 20 something fans of Hip Hop? LMAO@ Only interviewing cats who think as one sided as the reporter himself.
I also don't get people that talk about how it's more negative these days. Parts of the Chronic were just as bad as anything by 50 or Dipset as far as negativity goes. Dog Food was as shameless and shameful display of misogyny as anything out today. And it wasn't just these few records. It was all over the place. Every Deathrow record was filled with it. Wu Tang's 36 Chambers. Biggie's Ready To Die. CNN's The War Report. Mobb Deep, Scarface. Onyx. Jay Z. Warren G and Nate Dog. Even Nas's "smart' rap was filled with it. The difference was all these big acts sounded fresh at the time. They were no less mature in any aspects but it was a new sound and a new style to the common ear. These days every record just sounds like second rate versions of the mid 90s. I'll be honest, if I had come up as a teen in the 80s and hit my 20s in the early 90s I'd probably rag on this stuff just as much then as I do now. It's very simple. The music is vastly immature and meant for teenagers more often than not, and that has nothing to do with whoever the CEOs are because it was the same before it became such a big industry.
The reason the music is going to die in the mainstream is the same reason that Elvis and Chuck Berry style rock and roll got trampled by Beatles and Rolling Stones British Invasion rock and roll in the early to mid 60s. The next generation of teens will not want to listen to what the last generation of teens listened to and they'll want to be as far away from what their parents listened to as possible. Eventually elements come back around. Rap as we know it will die out in the mainstream and something will take it's place. Rap can come back with a new sound and style and even be the next main attraction but it will sound different. Elements of hip hop will always be present in some way shape or form in pop music just like distortion in a guitar, or screaming the lyrics will always have a place in the mainstream, but you'll never see the same sound dominate two generations of teenagers. It just won't happen. 14 and 15 year olds remember what was like when they were 9 and 10 and not allowed to be included in it by their older brother, sisters, or cousins, and they don't seem to want it as much at 14 as they did at 9. I'm not going to go into the possible psycholigical reasons because I'm not qualified in that field, but I don't have to study psychology to notice a continuous trend.
Backstreet Boys, N'Synch, and Britney didn't sound like New Kids on the Block and Tiffany. Bye Bye Bye and Gone wouldn't have made much impact in 89. They would have to have been reproduced and rewritten in parts. Smells Like Teen Spirit wouldn't have meant much in '85. Again it would have to be re-produced ad re-written. Of course the new sound could already be here today and and we just haven't heard it yet in the mainstream. The Pixies Surfer Rosa and Doolittle were more or less underground albums but if they were released in '91 or '92 when Hair Metal was being pushed out the door by the new teens then Debaser would have been as big as Lithium and Evenflow. Just a couple years can make a huge difference.
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and i cant believe you take this guerilla dude, aka whiteboy with selfcomplex, so seriously. do you really think it is white people who are messing up hiphop? do you really think that white people make rappers make their cd's as they are now? do you think they write their raps?
lol @ you. white people are only in "higher" ranks in the record industry since rapping isnt an option for them. hiphop is becoming more and more an universal music style, with all cultures and races participating, which i can only encourage, since its a good thing against discrimination and so on.
but back when the biggest labels were formed, did you see a eminem rap? a bubba sparxx? hell no, there was maybe 2 or 3 white people who were known in the mainstream. back then white people werent really accepted as rappers, since it was "black music". so as a white person interested in hiphop what would you do? not rap, but at least do something related to rap, so it leads to those functions they have now, as ceo's and managers.
you cant blame a "race" for fucking up music, that shows how limited your brain is guerilla. you cant think outside the box, in this case the box is your racial thoughts, so you start babbling stuff without having anything to back it up.
even IF a (white) ceo would say "you go make that sorta music on this album cause its popular right now and were gonna sell loads more with this, so you go make this". A rapper has 2 choices, either he's gonna make his own music no matter what hes been told (like immortal technique for example) or hes gonna follow the ceo (busta rhymes for example) and make money of it. see in the end its all about the money, always has been, always will be. but the point is that you have to find a balance between earning your loan and contribute to hiphop, since picking just one side isnt really gonna be positive for you.
and the rapper who picks the ceo's choice is just as bad, since he does it for the money as well, so blaming ceo's is kinda lame too. no matter if theyre black, white, yellow, green or red. in the end the rapper makes his album so HE himself should be judged by it, if he only follows the ceo on what to do, then sorry but youre not a real man (let alone a rapper).
so yeah. blaming "white people" for today's hiphop is kinda stupid, and doing that just makes you seem ignorant, but ill leave you with the thoughts that youre a "god" and im a "cracker", but i must point out 1 thing tho, a god doesnt discriminate, he takes very piece of mankind as his own son, which i dont see you doing, so im sure in your religion a god is not like this, i have been thought he is tho, so yeah....
Nope, wrong. Hip-hop started becoming the way it is today when white kids started buying it in large numbers. M Dogg says it's money that fucked up the game. True that, but there wouldn't be so much money in hip-hop if it wasn't WHITE KIDS that bought hip-hop in such enormous numbers.
When I was 15, it was possible for intelligent acts like PM Dawn or Arrested Development to top the charts just as easily as Ice Cube or Scarface. That's what's different, and it's largely because there were too many white kids buying "The Chronic" and "Doggystyle" and forgetting about PE or Tribe, so shit went down.
So, no, it is still very much the cracker's fault. Which is yet another reason I will have to kill them all come the revolution.
What's funny is pretty much everyone they spoke with was in their 30s. They were into Hip Hop during some of its most violent and sexual times with acts like 2 Live Crew, Snoop, N.W.A., Too Short, Ice T, Geto Boys etc. This era had dances like the Tootsie Roll, The Train, Da Dip, all that shit. So why is it an issue now? Probably because these old bastards are no longer "hip" enough to relate to it. They're upset cuz their artists are no longer relevant in Hip Hop anymore. Shits tired already. Why not interview some 20 something fans of Hip Hop? LMAO@ Only interviewing cats who think as one sided as the reporter himself.
I also don't get people that talk about how it's more negative these days. Parts of the Chronic were just as bad as anything by 50 or Dipset as far as negativity goes. Dog Food was as shameless and shameful display of misogyny as anything out today. And it wasn't just these few records. It was all over the place. Every Deathrow record was filled with it. Wu Tang's 36 Chambers. Biggie's Ready To Die. CNN's The War Report. Mobb Deep, Scarface. Onyx. Jay Z. Warren G and Nate Dog. Even Nas's "smart' rap was filled with it. The difference was all these big acts sounded fresh at the time. They were no less mature in any aspects but it was a new sound and a new style to the common ear. These days every record just sounds like second rate versions of the mid 90s. I'll be honest, if I had come up as a teen in the 80s and hit my 20s in the early 90s I'd probably rag on this stuff just as much then as I do now. It's very simple. The music is vastly immature and meant for teenagers more often than not, and that has nothing to do with whoever the CEOs are because it was the same before it became such a big industry.
I'm not talking about the mid-90s. Yes, the whole gangsta/thug movement was already in full muh'fuckin eff-iz-ect by then. I'm talking earlier, as in the pre-"Chronic" days. See above.
When I say "more negativity", it's less in the individual music so much as the over-saturation of them. There are far more thugs, pimps, playas, whatever now than there were about 15-20 years ago. That is incontovertible fact.
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I was responding to what SGV said, not what you said, but let's take a look at what you said;
That is true. Hip-hop is definitely WAY more negative than it used to be. That's my biggest problem with it.
10-15 years ago, it was pretty easy to dismiss rap critics like C. Delores Tucker as a bunch of stupid old folks who were just caught up in a generational gap...the old "parents just don't understand" adage. But nowadays, let's face it - a lot of the most vehement criticism of hip-hop is coming from hip-hop fans and even rappers themselves. Nas' "Hip-Hop Is Dead" is just the icing on the cake...it says a lot about a genre when its own fans and practioners are getting upset with it.
10-15 years ago means between '92 and '97. Then you mentioned Tucker who didn't start jumping on rap until after Chronic. Where did you specify the pre-chronic era? Tucker was right, and if were old enough back then I would have agreed with her instead of thinking of her as a bitch.
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I think that the main problem Hip-Hop faces is that ppl feel they hav heard it all b4.
Back in the day with ppl like Grandmaster Flash and the furious 5, they woz talkin about partyin and havin fun, then hip-hop evolved 2 ppl talkin more about their lives and wot they seen, then there woz gangsta rap with NWA, Eazy, Ice-T etc. etc. talkin bout the gangsta lifestyle.
Obv. more stuff than I mentioned there has been rapped bout, but my point is that the majority of what is bein released these days is a repeat of what has already been heard. The stuff bein released now, most of what they sayin has been said by ppl like NWA, Run DMC, KRS-1, 2Pac, Ice-T, Ice Cube, LL Cool J, Wu-Tang and so on and so on.....
It takes sum1 real innovative 2 make a huge impact in the hip-hop world now. Nas, Jay-Z, 50 Cent & G-Unit, Eminem, Ludacris, Lil Jon etc. they all made huge impacts wen they 1st dropped, but its hard 2 make that same impact for the 2nd time.
I aint sayin they all fell off, cos they havent, I'm just sayin that out of the 5-7 million or so that bought their albums at the time of they first album, only a fraction of those ppl will buy their other albums and people look at that as a disappointment.
For people 2 still get them fuckin huge sales they need to b able 2 maintain the buzz or adapt their styles 2 wot ppl want 2 hear.
Dre always manages 2 sell well cos hes a fuckin dope producer and always add different elements 2 his tracks 2 make everybody bounce their head 2 it.
Timbaland adapted his style, branched out a bit more and worked with ppl like Nelly Furtado & JT 2 maintain high sales. Pharrell/Neptunes are the same.
Em always does tracks that no1 else cud or wud make to keep ppl interested.
Snoop managed 2 maintain his original style and adapt 2 wot ppl want 2 hear by workin with diff. ppl and managed 2 stay on top of the game for like 13+years.
Hip-Hop hasnt hit a wall, but it will if more ppl dont step up their game and come with some original shit that ppl aint heard b4!
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I was responding to what SGV said, not what you said, but let's take a look at what you said;
That is true. Hip-hop is definitely WAY more negative than it used to be. That's my biggest problem with it.
10-15 years ago, it was pretty easy to dismiss rap critics like C. Delores Tucker as a bunch of stupid old folks who were just caught up in a generational gap...the old "parents just don't understand" adage. But nowadays, let's face it - a lot of the most vehement criticism of hip-hop is coming from hip-hop fans and even rappers themselves. Nas' "Hip-Hop Is Dead" is just the icing on the cake...it says a lot about a genre when its own fans and practioners are getting upset with it.
10-15 years ago means between '92 and '97. Then you mentioned Tucker who didn't start jumping on rap until after Chronic. Where did you specify the pre-chronic era? Tucker was right, and if were old enough back then I would have agreed with her instead of thinking of her as a bitch.
Just cause I said that in reference to critics of rap doesn't mean I think that particular era represents the ideal. I have said many times (not in this topic necessarily) that the pre-"Chronic" era (1992 and earlier) represented the better days.
Tucker was still a bitch. If I didn't give her permission, she's not allowed to do what she did.
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Does this thread have to involve racism though?
Not to turn this into a thread that belongs in Train of Thought BUT...........if you wish death on people because their ancestors held yours as slaves, which is something neither party can now change anything about or is now responsible for, YOU are the devil.........not said people. You are hypocritical and the terrible part is that you don't see it yourself, considering your opinion and cause as valid and righteous as the Taliban consider theirs.
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Does this thread have to involve racism though?
Not to turn this into a thread that belongs in Train of Thought BUT...........if you wish death on people because their ancestors held yours as slaves, which is something neither party can now change anything about or is now responsible for, YOU are the devil.........not said people. You are hypocritical and the terrible part is that you don't see it yourself, considering your opinion and cause as valid and righteous as the Taliban consider theirs.
Well, somebody's gotta take the fall for it. You crackers seem good enough to me. I give a fuck what you think, tho. The only thing that matters is that come Judgment Day, you're all gonna die at the hands of niggas with automatic choppers.
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lol @ this guerilla cat, time and time again he shows he has so much anger and hate inside him....what happened? did your daddy slapped your ass when you was a lil kiddo (no homo) or did your teddybear got stuck in a tree?
damn this dude got a serious trauma :-\
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Does this thread have to involve racism though?
Not to turn this into a thread that belongs in Train of Thought BUT...........if you wish death on people because their ancestors held yours as slaves, which is something neither party can now change anything about or is now responsible for, YOU are the devil.........not said people. You are hypocritical and the terrible part is that you don't see it yourself, considering your opinion and cause as valid and righteous as the Taliban consider theirs.
Well, somebody's gotta take the fall for it. You crackers seem good enough to me. I give a fuck what you think, tho. The only thing that matters is that come Judgment Day, you're all gonna die at the hands of niggas with automatic choppers.
Have a nice wait, because Judgement Day will never happen. And if it does, you hateful person, you'll find yourself being judged in a way that will seriously displeasure you.
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lol @ this guerilla cat, time and time again he shows he has so much anger and hate inside him....what happened? did your daddy slapped your ass when you was a lil kiddo (no homo) or did your teddybear got stuck in a tree?
damn this dude got a serious trauma :-\
Nope. I am simply enlightened as to the evil nature of the devil, and as a Poor Righteous Teacher, I am on a mission to cleanse the Earth of crackers so that the Original Man can reign once again. Any nigga who becomes enlightened realizes that killing crackers is what real niggas are SUPPOSED to do.
Have a nice wait, because Judgement Day will never happen. And if it does, you hateful person, you'll find yourself being judged in a way that will seriously displeasure you.
Oh, it WILL happen, lil homie, don't you worry 'bout that. And when it does, I will be fulfilling the prophecy, for I am carrying out the will of Allah...it is you and the other crackers like you that will find yourself being judged as fit to burn in hell for eternity.
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You are one hateful, pathetic piece of mental retardation. You do not realise your own hypocrisy. I won't go into your religious beliefs, because that is an endless discussion, but I repeat there won't ever be a Judgement Day and if there is going to be one, you won't be among the positively rewarded.
By the way, has it occurred to you that you are talking a white language and probably living a pleasant, pampered life in a country that has the possibility to live such a life mainly because of the efforts of white people? You will probably now try to think of just how bad your country is and how much better a black fundamentalist-dominated state would be, but:
If you are so hateful of us you should really go back to your roots and emigrate to an African country. You'll find out just how pleasant those countries are....I hope for you that you'll bring your machete and your condoms.
Or better still, get yourself a bomb, tie it to your body and blow yourself up...a way to go out that seems to be popular with islamic extremists.You can be proud of yourself at the moment you push the button that says 'Do not push this button before you are among infidels'.
It is not the entirety of white people that are what's wrong with everything, it is people with your mindset, wether they be white, black, yellow, purple, green or whatever. You may find that I am a devil, just because my set of genes (which are a natural thing, not a creation of Allah or any other god, yes god without a capital letter) dictates that I'm a white person but you are the one that holds devilish opinions as to how people should be treated, not me. If people like you are the ones that go to heaven (to play along with your fictional world) I'd rather go to hell and many people with me, I'm sure.
Now go find yourself a new favorite site run by extremist black people to feed your feelings of hate and to further convince yourself of your own righteousness.
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If you are so hateful of us you should really go back to your roots and emigrate to an African country. You'll find out just how pleasant those countries are....I hope for you that you'll bring your machete and your condoms.
But I don't want to do that. Instead, I want to kill all white people and take over THIS country as punishment for what the crackers did 200 years ago. Nothing less.
Or better still, get yourself a bomb, tie it to your body and blow yourself up...a way to go out that seems to be popular with islamic extremists.You can be proud of yourself at the moment you push the button that says 'Do not push this button before you are among infidels'.
I'm not a Muslim, at least not as most Muslims define themselves. Islam promotes the idea of unification and "submission to the creator". Those towelheads don't understand that Allah wants me to kill all crackers, not live in submission to the creator with them. No peace...fuck whitey.
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Seriously, teaching apes sign language is easier then getting some sense into your skull.
I give up, I recognise a lost cause when I see one.
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No peace...fuck whitey.
LMAO
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Seriously, teaching apes sign language is easier then getting some sense into your skull.
I give up, I recognise a lost cause when I see one.
Cool. You're still gonna die come Judgment Day.