West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: herpes on March 15, 2007, 08:51:47 PM
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1. Back in the day no one cared about album sales. No one cared about that shit, it was all about the music. Now thats the most important aspect.
2. Money, like back in the day no one cared how much money a rapper was making. Yea sure now days rappers are making more then they did then, but who gives a fuck. Being concerned over another mans bank roll is some shit the ladies are concerned over.
3. Bootlegging.... it has always been apart of hip hop, even more so then any other genre of music. Fine i got no problem with that. But if its an artist you really like or just great music in general.... SUPPORT THAT SHIT. I know people that buy music they really dont like but buy it b/c everyone else is buying. But the stuff they like a lot they bootleg. But then bitch and complain that no one is givin props to the artist they really like
4. Rap fans are fickle.... we bitch about how a artist isnt growing, but when they change there subject matter its... ooo he sold out, or he isnt being true to himself. Or some other bull shit. But if that rapper/group puts out the same music its, oooo hes not growing as a artist or growing with the times. Sure there are exceptions to the rule like say NaS, but for the most part it holds true.
5. No appreaciation for the old school and past pioneers. Whats wrong with a rapper that has been in the game for years and still putting out good music. Yea I know rap is young peoples music. But thats what they said about rock and every other genre of music. But yet you still here oldies rock on the radio, and selling our stadiums. Yet the old school rappers and even cats that arent considered old school but have been in the game for a minute now get pushed to the side. Rap can never grow if we dont appreaciate and embrace where it came from, instead of being ashamed of it.
6. Up untill a few years, rap music was mostly music for guys. When did we start liking music based on what women like ? OOOO well it gets her ass shaking..... I DONT CARE WOULD U PLAY THAT SHIT IN UR CAR BY YOURSELF.... OR IN YOUR HEADPHONES.... HELL NO.... look i aint stupid im not goin go to a club an request them to play cormega, but at the same time once im out of that club i wont play any of the junk they play in my headphones. But now us guys are like, that shit was hot even tho we hate most of the music that gets simple minded women (actual most are simpled minded) shakin there asses.
7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
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the more hiphop is dead posts we get, the more alive it is.....nah on the real though, i feel alot of the shit your saying that post.....but honestly....i think hiphop is just coming full circle and the last strech is always the hardest....you can either fuck up or get back on track....that is something the big cats will have to step up and do and inspire the young generation of rappers so we can appreciate both veterans and new cats music....face it, old rappers do not want to let a new nigga take the mantle and alot of these new niggaz aint ready to take the mantle to step hiphop forward....hiphop is just in a lil phase...we will come through it...trust me, i feel like this summer and winter hiphop energy will rise for somereason...i think nas really got niggaz talking..........yo dawg read my post on mixtapes and shit....aint nobody replied,lol
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the more hiphop is dead posts we get, the more alive it is.....nah on the real though, i feel alot of the shit your saying that post.....but honestly....i think hiphop is just coming full circle and the last strech is always the hardest....you can either fuck up or get back on track....that is something the big cats will have to step up and do and inspire the young generation of rappers so we can appreciate both veterans and new cats music....face it, old rappers do not want to let a new nigga take the mantle and alot of these new niggaz aint ready to take the mantle to step hiphop forward....hiphop is just in a lil phase...we will come through it...trust me, i feel like this summer and winter hiphop energy will rise for somereason...i think nas really got niggaz talking..........yo dawg read my post on mixtapes and shit....aint nobody replied,lol
yea I think we are heading for a change, b/c you are hearing more and more people talk about hip hop needing a change and its just not the internet talking about it anymore.
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6. Up untill a few years, rap music was mostly music for guys. When did we start liking music based on what women like ? OOOO well it gets her ass shaking..... I DONT CARE WOULD U PLAY THAT SHIT IN UR CAR BY YOURSELF.... OR IN YOUR HEADPHONES.... HELL NO...
the lame motherfuckers who say that kinda shit
1) are virgins
2) have never been to a club
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Thomas is speaking the real. I was going to make a post somewhat similar tone.
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+1
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hip hop aint dead. stop the fuckin bitchin, just cause camel and nasir are old and finished it doesnt mean everyone is. There is Dipset, Joe Budden, Cassidy, Ya Boy, Bishop, Yukmouth, etc plenty of dope ass mc's, quit the bitching
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It's dead because of corporate and artist greed dude, that's it. There has always been that element, the push to "sell out" to increase sales and revenue for the label and the artist but now with the dramatic decline in hip hop sales and music sales as a whole the labels are much more aggressive with formulas, classifications and what their willing to work with. In turn the rappers feel the pressure and fold. The internet was just the tipping point. The artists can't accept any loss of income so they'll sacrifice artistic integrity to keep their bottom line from fluctuating. That attitude has brought on a new culture all together with emphasis on fame, wealth and notoriety that’s frankly boring, redundant and uncreative.
Fans just aren’t interested. It’s evident now more than ever that to be a contemporary rapper it takes very little (if any) creativity, talent or innovation. The genre has experienced a hyperinflation of bland indistinguishable “artists” that’s driven the value of a “rapper” through the floor. They’re a dime a dozen. It’s the lack of any real substance that keeps the fans abandoning the music in droves which leads to even greater need to replace lost revenue which causes more pressure to “sell out” further diluting the music.
The market will correct itself in time when eventually the value of a rapper is essentially worthless then labels will stop signing them. That will drive the quality of the music up and fans will eventually come back. But the fans just eat what their fed as far as the music is concerned (see MTV, radio, print media et al.). It’s the artists and the labels that are responsible for the “laffy taffy’s” and “hustler, not a rapper” mentality’s. The fans don’t (directly) dictate what they hear, they just decide what they’ll listen to.
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Yes, hip-hop is dead because of the fans...specifically, the crackers. It was all fine until the crackers came along with their small dicks thinking they'd become "real" cause they listen to 50 or Dipset or whoever's got the most street cred. So, once again, we find that this is all whitey's fault.
6. Up untill a few years, rap music was mostly music for guys. When did we start liking music based on what women like ? OOOO well it gets her ass shaking..... I DONT CARE WOULD U PLAY THAT SHIT IN UR CAR BY YOURSELF.... OR IN YOUR HEADPHONES.... HELL NO...
the lame motherfuckers who say that kinda shit
1) are virgins
2) have never been to a club
LOL, so true. Anyone who thinks club music ain't for niggas as well as bitches obviously doesn't score much.
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It's dead because of corporate and artist greed dude, that's it. There has always been that element, the push to "sell out" to increase sales and revenue for the label and the artist but now with the dramatic decline in hip hop sales and music sales as a whole the labels are much more aggressive with formulas, classifications and what their willing to work with. In turn the rappers feel the pressure and fold. The internet was just the tipping point. The artists can't accept any loss of income so they'll sacrifice artistic integrity to keep their bottom line from fluctuating. That attitude has brought on a new culture all together with emphasis on fame, wealth and notoriety that’s frankly boring, redundant and uncreative.
My thoughts exactly. Does anyone remember De La Soul in 1993 ringing the alarm bells about the direction of the evolution of hip-hop? They weren't really taken seriously during hip-hop's commercial high, and now we're confronted with the outcome.
I think it's generally wrong to blame the fans. It's a sociological issue, but to simplify things: the fans are simply lower class people. They don't have the power to change anything, they don't influence anything... They are the ones being influenced.
Surely, you can blame the fans for anticipating 'weaker' music, but don't forget the reason why they anticipate. They were molded that way.
It's a vicious circle of the labels and the media molding the fans, making the fans demand 'weaker' music, thus influencing the labels to put that out.
Hip-Hop is dead? Just the other day I was watching a show on tv, where they brought up a legendary comedian as a guest. He basically stated, cabaret is dead. Listening to him speak on the way things have changed artistically, I could do nothing but agree with him. But with him claiming cabaret is dead, and with Nas claiming hip-hop is dead, that's something to make you think... And to me, there's only one conclusion: culture is dead. The people are braindead. We've all become brainless lower class puppets, no matter how much our wealth is seemingly increasing. We're done.
Culture is dead, and that only leads me to one conclusion:
Life is dead.
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6. Up untill a few years, rap music was mostly music for guys. When did we start liking music based on what women like ? OOOO well it gets her ass shaking..... I DONT CARE WOULD U PLAY THAT SHIT IN UR CAR BY YOURSELF.... OR IN YOUR HEADPHONES.... HELL NO...
the lame motherfuckers who say that kinda shit
1) are virgins
2) have never been to a club
went to a club last week.... and you can honestly say you listen to joints like chicken noodle soup and this is why im hot by yourself, fuckouttahere
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hip hop aint dead. stop the fuckin bitchin, just cause camel and nasir are old and finished it doesnt mean everyone is. There is Dipset, Joe Budden, Cassidy, Ya Boy, Bishop, Yukmouth, etc plenty of dope ass mc's, quit the bitching
wow if thats best list you could come up with, there isnt much hope.
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hiphop will never die it is a culture, it's a way of life, the music is just one aspect of it, and it goes through cycles, right now pop rap is dominating but it was in '97 and DMX came in '98 and took it back to the streets from the Puffy era
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hiphop will never die it is a culture, it's a way of life, the music is just one aspect of it, and it goes through cycles
Cycles? Maybe so, but don't forget things change over time. The world has changed, and as much as we need hiphop there's not a chance for it to come back under the current circumstances. Just explain to me, how is the cycle going to bring it back this time around? As I said,
We've all become brainless lower class puppets, no matter how much our wealth is seemingly increasing. We're done.
Culture is dead, and that only leads me to one conclusion:
Life is dead.
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Culture is dead, and that only leads me to one conclusion:
Life is dead.
Man you're trippin. Wait, i'm white.... you're tripping, dude.
hiphop as you know it may be dead, but not as a 14 year old knows it.
Same with Cabaret. Life changes. If you don't change with it, yeah, you're right, your life is dead. I'm the first one to be up on here bitching about how the old ways were better but you gotta be able to look at a new way of doing things, even if it's blatantly obvious to you it's fucked up, and see some good in it.
Classic hiphop was great but it also had some bullshit involved in it that's not as deep in the newer hiphop. Artists are making more money off their music now as well, that's a good thing.
Also you've got to realize that you're only talking about mainstream. There's plenty of underground artists who are every bit as talented as past artists.
Another thing that always gets me is, you say hiphop is dead but yet all the great hiphop that was made years ago is still here, most of it is still relevant, and you can listen to any of it any day of the week. De La Soul made that album in '93 but I was listening to part of it yesterday, personally. So hiphop's not really dead, it's as strong as ever, just not really much new happening on a 'great' level.
Also, bootlegging is a huge, serious problem that really cannot be fixed easily and hiphop will continue to have overly commercial aspects until something gets done that will appease bootleggers. Personally I don't pay for shit most of the time, just a few artists I really like. I bought Snoop's last cd, that was the only hiphop cd I paid for in the past year or so.
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Another thing that always gets me is, you say hiphop is dead but yet all the great hiphop that was made years ago is still here, most of it is still relevant, and you can listen to any of it any day of the week. De La Soul made that album in '93 but I was listening to part of it yesterday, personally. So hiphop's not really dead, it's as strong as ever, just not really much new happening on a 'great' level.
Troof.
yeah and there's always a ton of talented artists, but as arts get corporatized less and less talented people get exposed. doesn't mean you can't find dope artists.
-T
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yeah and there's always a ton of talented artists, but as arts get corporatized less and less talented people get exposed. doesn't mean you can't find dope artists.
Yeah but you'd have to search for them. They ain't out there. And that's not how its supposed to be and its never how it was. They'd have the exposure, now they don't.
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Does anyone remember De La Soul in 1993 ringing the alarm bells about the direction of the evolution of hip-hop?
anyone remember Kool Keith? his whole career the dude has been saying everything that everyone else is just starting to realize
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7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
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7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
I bump more jay and fif than dip BUT I can see how cam fans can like cam more than jay and fif...cam is pretty nice.
but regardless, your dismissal of dipset is a perfect illustration of your point. You overlooked cam's talent because of how dipset come across (image centric)...this is the MTV generation, now if a rapper wants to blow up they have to be able to make an entertaining reality show. they have to be pretty cause between youtube and mtv, you're gonna see them all the time. Biggie could NOT NOT NOT have blown up in today's climate. not pretty enough, back then you had a video here and there and an awards show. now there's a reality show, constant interviews, myspace, youtube, bet etc. if you're not enough of an actor, a joker, and an entertainer additional to being a tight rapper than you ain't gonna keep all this attention/buzz on you. That's why a dude like Rakim ain't on TV all the time, he's not about that. he's just about MCing, being an artist and the occasional classy st.ides commercial. So he ain't blowin' up like a chingy that's gonna do a little flatfoot and tapdance on TRL, ya dig?
People ARE way too focused on the rappers persona, looks, image, beefs etc. than their actual artistry. To me the sentence before this one is in the top 5 reasons hip hop today is perceived as 'dead' by many.
-T
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7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
I bump more jay and fif than dip BUT I can see how cam fans can like cam more than jay and fif...cam is pretty nice.
but regardless, your dismissal of dipset is a perfect illustration of your point. You overlooked cam's talent because of how dipset come across (image centric)...this is the MTV generation, now if a rapper wants to blow up they have to be able to make an entertaining reality show. they have to be pretty cause between youtube and mtv, you're gonna see them all the time. Biggie could NOT NOT NOT have blown up in today's climate. not pretty enough, back then you had a video here and there and an awards show. now there's a reality show, constant interviews, myspace, youtube, bet etc. if you're not enough of an actor, a joker, and an entertainer additional to being a tight rapper than you ain't gonna keep all this attention/buzz on you. That's why a dude like Rakim ain't on TV all the time, he's not about that. he's just about MCing, being an artist and the occasional classy st.ides commercial. So he ain't blowin' up like a chingy that's gonna do a little flatfoot and tapdance on TRL, ya dig?
People ARE way too focused on the rappers persona, looks, image, beefs etc. than their actual artistry. To me the sentence before this one is in the top 5 reasons hip hop today is perceived as 'dead' by many.
-T
Nah, I fucks with Cam, I just realize that he's a horrendous emcee, no where near on the level of 50 or Jay. U would never catch me saying Juelz or 40 is terrible. Just Cam and Jimmy. Not only that, Cam himself realizes this, which is why he feels the need to fish for beef. 50 killed em on the "Funeral" joint, the way he sent the package to Hot97 was original and funny. Cam is just upset and sad.
Bringin up Rakim in 07 is pointless to me, he may be the GOAT. but he is WASHED UP now, he would'nt have been on TV anyways...
Another reason I bring up Dipset is because I live in a state that has the most gang members and the most gang related homicides. 30% of the gangbangers where I live are SUBURBAN. I see these little niggas listening to the ignorance of groups like Dipset and wanting to be down with something they are not built for. Dipset relies so heavily on there gangsta image and blood affiliation that sububan white and black kids ( re: the kids with money who actually buy this shit ), really think it's the way to go. It's destroying the quality of music and life at the same time.
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7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
I bump more jay and fif than dip BUT I can see how cam fans can like cam more than jay and fif...cam is pretty nice.
but regardless, your dismissal of dipset is a perfect illustration of your point. You overlooked cam's talent because of how dipset come across (image centric)...this is the MTV generation, now if a rapper wants to blow up they have to be able to make an entertaining reality show. they have to be pretty cause between youtube and mtv, you're gonna see them all the time. Biggie could NOT NOT NOT have blown up in today's climate. not pretty enough, back then you had a video here and there and an awards show. now there's a reality show, constant interviews, myspace, youtube, bet etc. if you're not enough of an actor, a joker, and an entertainer additional to being a tight rapper than you ain't gonna keep all this attention/buzz on you. That's why a dude like Rakim ain't on TV all the time, he's not about that. he's just about MCing, being an artist and the occasional classy st.ides commercial. So he ain't blowin' up like a chingy that's gonna do a little flatfoot and tapdance on TRL, ya dig?
People ARE way too focused on the rappers persona, looks, image, beefs etc. than their actual artistry. To me the sentence before this one is in the top 5 reasons hip hop today is perceived as 'dead' by many.
-T
Nah, I fucks with Cam, I just realize that he's a horrendous emcee, no where near on the level of 50 or Jay. U would never catch me saying Juelz or 40 is terrible. Just Cam and Jimmy. Not only that, Cam himself realizes this, which is why he feels the need to fish for beef. 50 killed em on the "Funeral" joint, the way he sent the package to Hot97 was original and funny. Cam is just upset and sad.
Bringin up Rakim in 07 is pointless to me, he may be the GOAT. but he is WASHED UP now, he would'nt have been on TV anyways...
Another reason I bring up Dipset is because I live in a state that has the most gang members and the most gang related homicides. 30% of the gangbangers where I live are SUBURBAN. I see these little niggas listening to the ignorance of groups like Dipset and wanting to be down with something they are not built for. Dipset relies so heavily on there gangsta image and blood affiliation that sububan white and black kids ( re: the kids with money who actually buy this shit ), really think it's the way to go. It's destroying the quality of music and life at the same time.
wha? I've always thoght cam was nice from what little i've heard. i thought he murdered 50 lyrically on the first curtis song. His song IBS is brilliantly done too. 50's production is certainly better though.
-T
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7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
I bump more jay and fif than dip BUT I can see how cam fans can like cam more than jay and fif...cam is pretty nice.
but regardless, your dismissal of dipset is a perfect illustration of your point. You overlooked cam's talent because of how dipset come across (image centric)...this is the MTV generation, now if a rapper wants to blow up they have to be able to make an entertaining reality show. they have to be pretty cause between youtube and mtv, you're gonna see them all the time. Biggie could NOT NOT NOT have blown up in today's climate. not pretty enough, back then you had a video here and there and an awards show. now there's a reality show, constant interviews, myspace, youtube, bet etc. if you're not enough of an actor, a joker, and an entertainer additional to being a tight rapper than you ain't gonna keep all this attention/buzz on you. That's why a dude like Rakim ain't on TV all the time, he's not about that. he's just about MCing, being an artist and the occasional classy st.ides commercial. So he ain't blowin' up like a chingy that's gonna do a little flatfoot and tapdance on TRL, ya dig?
People ARE way too focused on the rappers persona, looks, image, beefs etc. than their actual artistry. To me the sentence before this one is in the top 5 reasons hip hop today is perceived as 'dead' by many.
-T
Nah, I fucks with Cam, I just realize that he's a horrendous emcee, no where near on the level of 50 or Jay. U would never catch me saying Juelz or 40 is terrible. Just Cam and Jimmy. Not only that, Cam himself realizes this, which is why he feels the need to fish for beef. 50 killed em on the "Funeral" joint, the way he sent the package to Hot97 was original and funny. Cam is just upset and sad.
Bringin up Rakim in 07 is pointless to me, he may be the GOAT. but he is WASHED UP now, he would'nt have been on TV anyways...
Another reason I bring up Dipset is because I live in a state that has the most gang members and the most gang related homicides. 30% of the gangbangers where I live are SUBURBAN. I see these little niggas listening to the ignorance of groups like Dipset and wanting to be down with something they are not built for. Dipset relies so heavily on there gangsta image and blood affiliation that sububan white and black kids ( re: the kids with money who actually buy this shit ), really think it's the way to go. It's destroying the quality of music and life at the same time.
wha? I've always thoght cam was nice from what little i've heard. i thought he murdered 50 lyrically on the first curtis song. His song IBS is brilliantly done too. 50's production is certainly better though.
-T
IBS was very cleverly done. Like I said, i fucks with Cam, I just see him as a crappy rapper who doesn't try. Even though he's capable of delievering a few jewels, it doesn't make up fpr the onosense that fills half of his bars.
He started off in a group with Mase & Big L called children of the corn. he was a raunchy, explicit battle rapper back then. Upon signin with the Roc, he seemingly lost his urge to make good music, and relied on his affiliations to get his fans. I know alot of people will say they love the music, and some do, but mostly they are in love with an image.
I thought "Funeral" was much better lyrically than Cam's song, but in this case I am more of a 50 fan than Cam's. Dipset fans will have a different opion of course.
50 cent is a tried and true lyricist. He does still have lyricals, again on his singles he don't choose to flex it, but people who listen to his music know what I'm talking about. He's good for hip-hop because he appeals to all sides and knows how to spark controversey.
50 is also better at this beefing thing. You hear how mature he was when that little boy Cameron was screaming at him over the phone. The reason I highlited Tommy's #7 reason is because look at how a nigga like Cam gets al emo when beef comes. He made himself look bitter, and starving for attention when he felt the need to call a damn press conference to announce that Jay-Z made him upset, tried to imlicate Jay as having something to do with Cam getting shot. Then, and there is NO way around this, made a COMPLETE and total fool of himself on the radio screaming at 50. Cam=clown
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7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
I bump more jay and fif than dip BUT I can see how cam fans can like cam more than jay and fif...cam is pretty nice.
but regardless, your dismissal of dipset is a perfect illustration of your point. You overlooked cam's talent because of how dipset come across (image centric)...this is the MTV generation, now if a rapper wants to blow up they have to be able to make an entertaining reality show. they have to be pretty cause between youtube and mtv, you're gonna see them all the time. Biggie could NOT NOT NOT have blown up in today's climate. not pretty enough, back then you had a video here and there and an awards show. now there's a reality show, constant interviews, myspace, youtube, bet etc. if you're not enough of an actor, a joker, and an entertainer additional to being a tight rapper than you ain't gonna keep all this attention/buzz on you. That's why a dude like Rakim ain't on TV all the time, he's not about that. he's just about MCing, being an artist and the occasional classy st.ides commercial. So he ain't blowin' up like a chingy that's gonna do a little flatfoot and tapdance on TRL, ya dig?
People ARE way too focused on the rappers persona, looks, image, beefs etc. than their actual artistry. To me the sentence before this one is in the top 5 reasons hip hop today is perceived as 'dead' by many.
-T
Nah, I fucks with Cam, I just realize that he's a horrendous emcee, no where near on the level of 50 or Jay. U would never catch me saying Juelz or 40 is terrible. Just Cam and Jimmy. Not only that, Cam himself realizes this, which is why he feels the need to fish for beef. 50 killed em on the "Funeral" joint, the way he sent the package to Hot97 was original and funny. Cam is just upset and sad.
Bringin up Rakim in 07 is pointless to me, he may be the GOAT. but he is WASHED UP now, he would'nt have been on TV anyways...
Another reason I bring up Dipset is because I live in a state that has the most gang members and the most gang related homicides. 30% of the gangbangers where I live are SUBURBAN. I see these little niggas listening to the ignorance of groups like Dipset and wanting to be down with something they are not built for. Dipset relies so heavily on there gangsta image and blood affiliation that sububan white and black kids ( re: the kids with money who actually buy this shit ), really think it's the way to go. It's destroying the quality of music and life at the same time.
wha? I've always thoght cam was nice from what little i've heard. i thought he murdered 50 lyrically on the first curtis song. His song IBS is brilliantly done too. 50's production is certainly better though.
-T
IBS was very cleverly done. Like I said, i fucks with Cam, I just see him as a crappy rapper who doesn't try. Even though he's capable of delievering a few jewels, it doesn't make up fpr the onosense that fills half of his bars.
He started off in a group with Mase & Big L called children of the corn. he was a raunchy, explicit battle rapper back then. Upon signin with the Roc, he seemingly lost his urge to make good music, and relied on his affiliations to get his fans. I know alot of people will say they love the music, and some do, but mostly they are in love with an image.
I thought "Funeral" was much better lyrically than Cam's song, but in this case I am more of a 50 fan than Cam's. Dipset fans will have a different opion of course.
50 cent is a tried and true lyricist. He does still have lyricals, again on his singles he don't choose to flex it, but people who listen to his music know what I'm talking about. He's good for hip-hop because he appeals to all sides and knows how to spark controversey.
50 is also better at this beefing thing. You hear how mature he was when that little boy Cameron was screaming at him over the phone. The reason I highlited Tommy's #7 reason is because look at how a nigga like Cam gets al emo when beef comes. He made himself look bitter, and starving for attention when he felt the need to call a damn press conference to announce that Jay-Z made him upset, tried to imlicate Jay as having something to do with Cam getting shot. Then, and there is NO way around this, made a COMPLETE and total fool of himself on the radio screaming at 50. Cam=clown
i agree that 50 has lyrical skill but i haven't even heard his big l era stuff and i can tell he is a sick lyricist from the songs i've heard. his shit is laid back but still mad lyrical. i don't think laid back=lazy in a bad way.
50's lyrics were real dope on POTD, pretty dope in GRODT and since then i've heard nothin but lyrical whackness from dude cept on encore and documentary.
better at beefing? yeah 50 is, but just verse versus verse, i think camron won that shit. but i guess that's the most subjective part of this. and dude all these dudes are clowns. few rappers aren't clowns. 50 is every bit as much of a clown as cam is.
-T
-
7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
I bump more jay and fif than dip BUT I can see how cam fans can like cam more than jay and fif...cam is pretty nice.
but regardless, your dismissal of dipset is a perfect illustration of your point. You overlooked cam's talent because of how dipset come across (image centric)...this is the MTV generation, now if a rapper wants to blow up they have to be able to make an entertaining reality show. they have to be pretty cause between youtube and mtv, you're gonna see them all the time. Biggie could NOT NOT NOT have blown up in today's climate. not pretty enough, back then you had a video here and there and an awards show. now there's a reality show, constant interviews, myspace, youtube, bet etc. if you're not enough of an actor, a joker, and an entertainer additional to being a tight rapper than you ain't gonna keep all this attention/buzz on you. That's why a dude like Rakim ain't on TV all the time, he's not about that. he's just about MCing, being an artist and the occasional classy st.ides commercial. So he ain't blowin' up like a chingy that's gonna do a little flatfoot and tapdance on TRL, ya dig?
People ARE way too focused on the rappers persona, looks, image, beefs etc. than their actual artistry. To me the sentence before this one is in the top 5 reasons hip hop today is perceived as 'dead' by many.
-T
Nah, I fucks with Cam, I just realize that he's a horrendous emcee, no where near on the level of 50 or Jay. U would never catch me saying Juelz or 40 is terrible. Just Cam and Jimmy. Not only that, Cam himself realizes this, which is why he feels the need to fish for beef. 50 killed em on the "Funeral" joint, the way he sent the package to Hot97 was original and funny. Cam is just upset and sad.
Bringin up Rakim in 07 is pointless to me, he may be the GOAT. but he is WASHED UP now, he would'nt have been on TV anyways...
Another reason I bring up Dipset is because I live in a state that has the most gang members and the most gang related homicides. 30% of the gangbangers where I live are SUBURBAN. I see these little niggas listening to the ignorance of groups like Dipset and wanting to be down with something they are not built for. Dipset relies so heavily on there gangsta image and blood affiliation that sububan white and black kids ( re: the kids with money who actually buy this shit ), really think it's the way to go. It's destroying the quality of music and life at the same time.
wha? I've always thoght cam was nice from what little i've heard. i thought he murdered 50 lyrically on the first curtis song. His song IBS is brilliantly done too. 50's production is certainly better though.
-T
IBS was very cleverly done. Like I said, i fucks with Cam, I just see him as a crappy rapper who doesn't try. Even though he's capable of delievering a few jewels, it doesn't make up fpr the onosense that fills half of his bars.
He started off in a group with Mase & Big L called children of the corn. he was a raunchy, explicit battle rapper back then. Upon signin with the Roc, he seemingly lost his urge to make good music, and relied on his affiliations to get his fans. I know alot of people will say they love the music, and some do, but mostly they are in love with an image.
I thought "Funeral" was much better lyrically than Cam's song, but in this case I am more of a 50 fan than Cam's. Dipset fans will have a different opion of course.
50 cent is a tried and true lyricist. He does still have lyricals, again on his singles he don't choose to flex it, but people who listen to his music know what I'm talking about. He's good for hip-hop because he appeals to all sides and knows how to spark controversey.
50 is also better at this beefing thing. You hear how mature he was when that little boy Cameron was screaming at him over the phone. The reason I highlited Tommy's #7 reason is because look at how a nigga like Cam gets al emo when beef comes. He made himself look bitter, and starving for attention when he felt the need to call a damn press conference to announce that Jay-Z made him upset, tried to imlicate Jay as having something to do with Cam getting shot. Then, and there is NO way around this, made a COMPLETE and total fool of himself on the radio screaming at 50. Cam=clown
i agree that 50 has lyrical skill but i haven't even heard his big l era stuff and i can tell he is a sick lyricist from the songs i've heard. his shit is laid back but still mad lyrical. i don't think laid back=lazy in a bad way.
50's lyrics were real dope on POTD, pretty dope in GRODT and since then i've heard nothin but lyrical whackness from dude cept on encore and documentary.
better at beefing? yeah 50 is, but just verse versus verse, i think camron won that shit. but i guess that's the most subjective part of this. and dude all these dudes are clowns. few rappers aren't clowns. 50 is every bit as much of a clown as cam is.
-T
when I say Cam is a lyrical bum, I meant that "rolly polly holly molly" crap he does. That takes over the majority of his songs and from a lyrical standpoint, I rank Cam very low. He is fun to listen too, kinda like DFB or Afroman.
If u need to hear some good 50 verses since the Doc., check Mobb Deep's "creep", "pearly gates", Llyod Bank's "cake", and his verses on the Re-Up. He spits nothin but heat. I would be lying if I said I wasn't hating on G-Unit for a while, but they do hear what the fans say, and have stepped there collective game up. Those are just a couple tracks to check for.
And yeah, it's not easy to argue who won the beef because we are fans, and our opinions are going to be different no matter what. In my personal opinion I though "Funeral Music" video and song were miles ahead of "Curtisss". And I have trouble respecting cam after the way he has handled his beefs. Jimmy too, you saw that DVD where they asked him bout Tru Life and he got all upset and walked away lol.
And yeah, most rappers are clowns, but ALOT ( especially the one's you wouldn't expect ) are still heavily affiliated in the streets.
-
7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
I bump more jay and fif than dip BUT I can see how cam fans can like cam more than jay and fif...cam is pretty nice.
but regardless, your dismissal of dipset is a perfect illustration of your point. You overlooked cam's talent because of how dipset come across (image centric)...this is the MTV generation, now if a rapper wants to blow up they have to be able to make an entertaining reality show. they have to be pretty cause between youtube and mtv, you're gonna see them all the time. Biggie could NOT NOT NOT have blown up in today's climate. not pretty enough, back then you had a video here and there and an awards show. now there's a reality show, constant interviews, myspace, youtube, bet etc. if you're not enough of an actor, a joker, and an entertainer additional to being a tight rapper than you ain't gonna keep all this attention/buzz on you. That's why a dude like Rakim ain't on TV all the time, he's not about that. he's just about MCing, being an artist and the occasional classy st.ides commercial. So he ain't blowin' up like a chingy that's gonna do a little flatfoot and tapdance on TRL, ya dig?
People ARE way too focused on the rappers persona, looks, image, beefs etc. than their actual artistry. To me the sentence before this one is in the top 5 reasons hip hop today is perceived as 'dead' by many.
-T
Nah, I fucks with Cam, I just realize that he's a horrendous emcee, no where near on the level of 50 or Jay. U would never catch me saying Juelz or 40 is terrible. Just Cam and Jimmy. Not only that, Cam himself realizes this, which is why he feels the need to fish for beef. 50 killed em on the "Funeral" joint, the way he sent the package to Hot97 was original and funny. Cam is just upset and sad.
Bringin up Rakim in 07 is pointless to me, he may be the GOAT. but he is WASHED UP now, he would'nt have been on TV anyways...
Another reason I bring up Dipset is because I live in a state that has the most gang members and the most gang related homicides. 30% of the gangbangers where I live are SUBURBAN. I see these little niggas listening to the ignorance of groups like Dipset and wanting to be down with something they are not built for. Dipset relies so heavily on there gangsta image and blood affiliation that sububan white and black kids ( re: the kids with money who actually buy this shit ), really think it's the way to go. It's destroying the quality of music and life at the same time.
wha? I've always thoght cam was nice from what little i've heard. i thought he murdered 50 lyrically on the first curtis song. His song IBS is brilliantly done too. 50's production is certainly better though.
-T
IBS was very cleverly done. Like I said, i fucks with Cam, I just see him as a crappy rapper who doesn't try. Even though he's capable of delievering a few jewels, it doesn't make up fpr the onosense that fills half of his bars.
He started off in a group with Mase & Big L called children of the corn. he was a raunchy, explicit battle rapper back then. Upon signin with the Roc, he seemingly lost his urge to make good music, and relied on his affiliations to get his fans. I know alot of people will say they love the music, and some do, but mostly they are in love with an image.
I thought "Funeral" was much better lyrically than Cam's song, but in this case I am more of a 50 fan than Cam's. Dipset fans will have a different opion of course.
50 cent is a tried and true lyricist. He does still have lyricals, again on his singles he don't choose to flex it, but people who listen to his music know what I'm talking about. He's good for hip-hop because he appeals to all sides and knows how to spark controversey.
50 is also better at this beefing thing. You hear how mature he was when that little boy Cameron was screaming at him over the phone. The reason I highlited Tommy's #7 reason is because look at how a nigga like Cam gets al emo when beef comes. He made himself look bitter, and starving for attention when he felt the need to call a damn press conference to announce that Jay-Z made him upset, tried to imlicate Jay as having something to do with Cam getting shot. Then, and there is NO way around this, made a COMPLETE and total fool of himself on the radio screaming at 50. Cam=clown
i agree that 50 has lyrical skill but i haven't even heard his big l era stuff and i can tell he is a sick lyricist from the songs i've heard. his shit is laid back but still mad lyrical. i don't think laid back=lazy in a bad way.
50's lyrics were real dope on POTD, pretty dope in GRODT and since then i've heard nothin but lyrical whackness from dude cept on encore and documentary.
better at beefing? yeah 50 is, but just verse versus verse, i think camron won that shit. but i guess that's the most subjective part of this. and dude all these dudes are clowns. few rappers aren't clowns. 50 is every bit as much of a clown as cam is.
-T
when I say Cam is a lyrical bum, I meant that "rolly polly holly molly" crap he does. That takes over the majority of his songs and from a lyrical standpoint, I rank Cam very low. He is fun to listen too, kinda like DFB or Afroman.
If u need to hear some good 50 verses since the Doc., check Mobb Deep's "creep", "pearly gates", Llyod Bank's "cake", and his verses on the Re-Up. He spits nothin but heat. I would be lying if I said I wasn't hating on G-Unit for a while, but they do hear what the fans say, and have stepped there collective game up. Those are just a couple tracks to check for.
And yeah, it's not easy to argue who won the beef because we are fans, and our opinions are going to be different no matter what. In my personal opinion I though "Funeral Music" video and song were miles ahead of "Curtisss". And I have trouble respecting cam after the way he has handled his beefs. Jimmy too, you saw that DVD where they asked him bout Tru Life and he got all upset and walked away lol.
And yeah, most rappers are clowns, but ALOT ( especially the one's you wouldn't expect ) are still heavily affiliated in the streets.
LOL afroman is the shit too
but either way....I didn't see the dvd with jimmy. and i'm not talkinga bout the video over all songs (i like the beat to funeral music better than curtis' production) but just the actual verses, i was feelin' cam's multis, he stayed on topic, had mad clever lines and punches whereas 50 has no multis, said predictable shit, was less humorous...it was more like 'i'm richer than you' rather than 'i'm doper than you' like a battle should be.
-T
-
7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
I bump more jay and fif than dip BUT I can see how cam fans can like cam more than jay and fif...cam is pretty nice.
but regardless, your dismissal of dipset is a perfect illustration of your point. You overlooked cam's talent because of how dipset come across (image centric)...this is the MTV generation, now if a rapper wants to blow up they have to be able to make an entertaining reality show. they have to be pretty cause between youtube and mtv, you're gonna see them all the time. Biggie could NOT NOT NOT have blown up in today's climate. not pretty enough, back then you had a video here and there and an awards show. now there's a reality show, constant interviews, myspace, youtube, bet etc. if you're not enough of an actor, a joker, and an entertainer additional to being a tight rapper than you ain't gonna keep all this attention/buzz on you. That's why a dude like Rakim ain't on TV all the time, he's not about that. he's just about MCing, being an artist and the occasional classy st.ides commercial. So he ain't blowin' up like a chingy that's gonna do a little flatfoot and tapdance on TRL, ya dig?
People ARE way too focused on the rappers persona, looks, image, beefs etc. than their actual artistry. To me the sentence before this one is in the top 5 reasons hip hop today is perceived as 'dead' by many.
-T
Nah, I fucks with Cam, I just realize that he's a horrendous emcee, no where near on the level of 50 or Jay. U would never catch me saying Juelz or 40 is terrible. Just Cam and Jimmy. Not only that, Cam himself realizes this, which is why he feels the need to fish for beef. 50 killed em on the "Funeral" joint, the way he sent the package to Hot97 was original and funny. Cam is just upset and sad.
Bringin up Rakim in 07 is pointless to me, he may be the GOAT. but he is WASHED UP now, he would'nt have been on TV anyways...
Another reason I bring up Dipset is because I live in a state that has the most gang members and the most gang related homicides. 30% of the gangbangers where I live are SUBURBAN. I see these little niggas listening to the ignorance of groups like Dipset and wanting to be down with something they are not built for. Dipset relies so heavily on there gangsta image and blood affiliation that sububan white and black kids ( re: the kids with money who actually buy this shit ), really think it's the way to go. It's destroying the quality of music and life at the same time.
wha? I've always thoght cam was nice from what little i've heard. i thought he murdered 50 lyrically on the first curtis song. His song IBS is brilliantly done too. 50's production is certainly better though.
-T
IBS was very cleverly done. Like I said, i fucks with Cam, I just see him as a crappy rapper who doesn't try. Even though he's capable of delievering a few jewels, it doesn't make up fpr the onosense that fills half of his bars.
He started off in a group with Mase & Big L called children of the corn. he was a raunchy, explicit battle rapper back then. Upon signin with the Roc, he seemingly lost his urge to make good music, and relied on his affiliations to get his fans. I know alot of people will say they love the music, and some do, but mostly they are in love with an image.
I thought "Funeral" was much better lyrically than Cam's song, but in this case I am more of a 50 fan than Cam's. Dipset fans will have a different opion of course.
50 cent is a tried and true lyricist. He does still have lyricals, again on his singles he don't choose to flex it, but people who listen to his music know what I'm talking about. He's good for hip-hop because he appeals to all sides and knows how to spark controversey.
50 is also better at this beefing thing. You hear how mature he was when that little boy Cameron was screaming at him over the phone. The reason I highlited Tommy's #7 reason is because look at how a nigga like Cam gets al emo when beef comes. He made himself look bitter, and starving for attention when he felt the need to call a damn press conference to announce that Jay-Z made him upset, tried to imlicate Jay as having something to do with Cam getting shot. Then, and there is NO way around this, made a COMPLETE and total fool of himself on the radio screaming at 50. Cam=clown
i agree that 50 has lyrical skill but i haven't even heard his big l era stuff and i can tell he is a sick lyricist from the songs i've heard. his shit is laid back but still mad lyrical. i don't think laid back=lazy in a bad way.
50's lyrics were real dope on POTD, pretty dope in GRODT and since then i've heard nothin but lyrical whackness from dude cept on encore and documentary.
better at beefing? yeah 50 is, but just verse versus verse, i think camron won that shit. but i guess that's the most subjective part of this. and dude all these dudes are clowns. few rappers aren't clowns. 50 is every bit as much of a clown as cam is.
-T
when I say Cam is a lyrical bum, I meant that "rolly polly holly molly" crap he does. That takes over the majority of his songs and from a lyrical standpoint, I rank Cam very low. He is fun to listen too, kinda like DFB or Afroman.
If u need to hear some good 50 verses since the Doc., check Mobb Deep's "creep", "pearly gates", Llyod Bank's "cake", and his verses on the Re-Up. He spits nothin but heat. I would be lying if I said I wasn't hating on G-Unit for a while, but they do hear what the fans say, and have stepped there collective game up. Those are just a couple tracks to check for.
And yeah, it's not easy to argue who won the beef because we are fans, and our opinions are going to be different no matter what. In my personal opinion I though "Funeral Music" video and song were miles ahead of "Curtisss". And I have trouble respecting cam after the way he has handled his beefs. Jimmy too, you saw that DVD where they asked him bout Tru Life and he got all upset and walked away lol.
And yeah, most rappers are clowns, but ALOT ( especially the one's you wouldn't expect ) are still heavily affiliated in the streets.
LOL afroman is the shit too
but either way....I didn't see the dvd with jimmy. and i'm not talkinga bout the video over all songs (i like the beat to funeral music better than curtis' production) but just the actual verses, i was feelin' cam's multis, he stayed on topic, had mad clever lines and punches whereas 50 has no multis, said predictable shit, was less humorous...it was more like 'i'm richer than you' rather than 'i'm doper than you' like a battle should be.
-T
I see you there. 50 didn't go super hard at Cam, which was another reason why I liked "Funeral" better. He seems to be tauting Cam'ron, and Cam did make a big stink about how Banks & Mobb didn't sell, so that's why 50 brought up the money issue. But again, it's all in personal taste.
-
7. Beef.... people forgot what battling on wax is about, and how important it is and was the game. Too the people that dont like beef and what not... it has always beeen part of the game and has produced some of the greatest rap music ever. And at the same time, rappers that beef over who has more money or who got robbed for there chain, that shit is a cancer. Battling was never about that stupid shit, now I see cats going crazy over that shit. Fuckouttahere
well im sure there is a lot more then that, but i dont feel like typing anymore. 4 days without a cig I had to rant and rave about something
I think this brings up a great point, because fans will now diss an artist that they're favorite artist disses. Case in point, the Dipset fans hate on everything Jay-Z & G-Unit related, when in reality, Jay & Fif put out much better music. The sad part is, these fans do not get to be exposed to Jay or G-units music the way they should. They just look at it with a closed mind.
People have fallen in love with the image of rappers more so than there music, and when people take it seriously like that, record sales are gonna fumble. It's a shame.
I bump more jay and fif than dip BUT I can see how cam fans can like cam more than jay and fif...cam is pretty nice.
but regardless, your dismissal of dipset is a perfect illustration of your point. You overlooked cam's talent because of how dipset come across (image centric)...this is the MTV generation, now if a rapper wants to blow up they have to be able to make an entertaining reality show. they have to be pretty cause between youtube and mtv, you're gonna see them all the time. Biggie could NOT NOT NOT have blown up in today's climate. not pretty enough, back then you had a video here and there and an awards show. now there's a reality show, constant interviews, myspace, youtube, bet etc. if you're not enough of an actor, a joker, and an entertainer additional to being a tight rapper than you ain't gonna keep all this attention/buzz on you. That's why a dude like Rakim ain't on TV all the time, he's not about that. he's just about MCing, being an artist and the occasional classy st.ides commercial. So he ain't blowin' up like a chingy that's gonna do a little flatfoot and tapdance on TRL, ya dig?
People ARE way too focused on the rappers persona, looks, image, beefs etc. than their actual artistry. To me the sentence before this one is in the top 5 reasons hip hop today is perceived as 'dead' by many.
-T
Nah, I fucks with Cam, I just realize that he's a horrendous emcee, no where near on the level of 50 or Jay. U would never catch me saying Juelz or 40 is terrible. Just Cam and Jimmy. Not only that, Cam himself realizes this, which is why he feels the need to fish for beef. 50 killed em on the "Funeral" joint, the way he sent the package to Hot97 was original and funny. Cam is just upset and sad.
Bringin up Rakim in 07 is pointless to me, he may be the GOAT. but he is WASHED UP now, he would'nt have been on TV anyways...
Another reason I bring up Dipset is because I live in a state that has the most gang members and the most gang related homicides. 30% of the gangbangers where I live are SUBURBAN. I see these little niggas listening to the ignorance of groups like Dipset and wanting to be down with something they are not built for. Dipset relies so heavily on there gangsta image and blood affiliation that sububan white and black kids ( re: the kids with money who actually buy this shit ), really think it's the way to go. It's destroying the quality of music and life at the same time.
wha? I've always thoght cam was nice from what little i've heard. i thought he murdered 50 lyrically on the first curtis song. His song IBS is brilliantly done too. 50's production is certainly better though.
-T
IBS was very cleverly done. Like I said, i fucks with Cam, I just see him as a crappy rapper who doesn't try. Even though he's capable of delievering a few jewels, it doesn't make up fpr the onosense that fills half of his bars.
He started off in a group with Mase & Big L called children of the corn. he was a raunchy, explicit battle rapper back then. Upon signin with the Roc, he seemingly lost his urge to make good music, and relied on his affiliations to get his fans. I know alot of people will say they love the music, and some do, but mostly they are in love with an image.
I thought "Funeral" was much better lyrically than Cam's song, but in this case I am more of a 50 fan than Cam's. Dipset fans will have a different opion of course.
50 cent is a tried and true lyricist. He does still have lyricals, again on his singles he don't choose to flex it, but people who listen to his music know what I'm talking about. He's good for hip-hop because he appeals to all sides and knows how to spark controversey.
50 is also better at this beefing thing. You hear how mature he was when that little boy Cameron was screaming at him over the phone. The reason I highlited Tommy's #7 reason is because look at how a nigga like Cam gets al emo when beef comes. He made himself look bitter, and starving for attention when he felt the need to call a damn press conference to announce that Jay-Z made him upset, tried to imlicate Jay as having something to do with Cam getting shot. Then, and there is NO way around this, made a COMPLETE and total fool of himself on the radio screaming at 50. Cam=clown
i agree that 50 has lyrical skill but i haven't even heard his big l era stuff and i can tell he is a sick lyricist from the songs i've heard. his shit is laid back but still mad lyrical. i don't think laid back=lazy in a bad way.
50's lyrics were real dope on POTD, pretty dope in GRODT and since then i've heard nothin but lyrical whackness from dude cept on encore and documentary.
better at beefing? yeah 50 is, but just verse versus verse, i think camron won that shit. but i guess that's the most subjective part of this. and dude all these dudes are clowns. few rappers aren't clowns. 50 is every bit as much of a clown as cam is.
-T
when I say Cam is a lyrical bum, I meant that "rolly polly holly molly" crap he does. That takes over the majority of his songs and from a lyrical standpoint, I rank Cam very low. He is fun to listen too, kinda like DFB or Afroman.
If u need to hear some good 50 verses since the Doc., check Mobb Deep's "creep", "pearly gates", Llyod Bank's "cake", and his verses on the Re-Up. He spits nothin but heat. I would be lying if I said I wasn't hating on G-Unit for a while, but they do hear what the fans say, and have stepped there collective game up. Those are just a couple tracks to check for.
And yeah, it's not easy to argue who won the beef because we are fans, and our opinions are going to be different no matter what. In my personal opinion I though "Funeral Music" video and song were miles ahead of "Curtisss". And I have trouble respecting cam after the way he has handled his beefs. Jimmy too, you saw that DVD where they asked him bout Tru Life and he got all upset and walked away lol.
And yeah, most rappers are clowns, but ALOT ( especially the one's you wouldn't expect ) are still heavily affiliated in the streets.
LOL afroman is the shit too
but either way....I didn't see the dvd with jimmy. and i'm not talkinga bout the video over all songs (i like the beat to funeral music better than curtis' production) but just the actual verses, i was feelin' cam's multis, he stayed on topic, had mad clever lines and punches whereas 50 has no multis, said predictable shit, was less humorous...it was more like 'i'm richer than you' rather than 'i'm doper than you' like a battle should be.
-T
I see you there. 50 didn't go super hard at Cam, which was another reason why I liked "Funeral" better. He seems to be tauting Cam'ron, and Cam did make a big stink about how Banks & Mobb didn't sell, so that's why 50 brought up the money issue. But again, it's all in personal taste.
word, it is more of a taunt than a diss
LOL that's funny. 'this ain't a diss record. I'm just tauntin' you nigga!"
-T
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Y'all are "overcomplexifying" this issue. It's the fault of the crackers, period. Whitey fucks up everything he touches. End of story.
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Y'all are "overcomplexifying" this issue. It's the fault of the crackers, period. Whitey fucks up everything he touches. End of story.
Whitey is responsible for all the hiphop you've ever heard, man. Fat, Jewish, Old white men produced distributed and managed every rap act in the 80's and most of the ones in the 90's and most of the ones out now.
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Y'all are "overcomplexifying" this issue. It's the fault of the crackers, period. Whitey fucks up everything he touches. End of story.
Whitey is responsible for all the hiphop you've ever heard, man. Fat, Jewish, Old white men produced distributed and managed every rap act in the 80's and most of the ones in the 90's and most of the ones out now.
Don't even trip Trauma, he's one of those persona posters like that Real American dude. He's just always on.
-T
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Culture is dead, and that only leads me to one conclusion:
Life is dead.
Man you're trippin. Wait, i'm white.... you're tripping, dude.
hiphop as you know it may be dead, but not as a 14 year old knows it.
Same with Cabaret. Life changes. If you don't change with it, yeah, you're right, your life is dead. I'm the first one to be up on here bitching about how the old ways were better but you gotta be able to look at a new way of doing things, even if it's blatantly obvious to you it's fucked up, and see some good in it.
Classic hiphop was great but it also had some bullshit involved in it that's not as deep in the newer hiphop. Artists are making more money off their music now as well, that's a good thing.
Also you've got to realize that you're only talking about mainstream. There's plenty of underground artists who are every bit as talented as past artists.
Another thing that always gets me is, you say hiphop is dead but yet all the great hiphop that was made years ago is still here, most of it is still relevant, and you can listen to any of it any day of the week. De La Soul made that album in '93 but I was listening to part of it yesterday, personally. So hiphop's not really dead, it's as strong as ever, just not really much new happening on a 'great' level.
Also, bootlegging is a huge, serious problem that really cannot be fixed easily and hiphop will continue to have overly commercial aspects until something gets done that will appease bootleggers. Personally I don't pay for shit most of the time, just a few artists I really like. I bought Snoop's last cd, that was the only hiphop cd I paid for in the past year or so.
I'm not even saying life has become unbearable with these "new cultural conditions". I know 14 year olds will like what they hear today, but that's part of the whole point: we're all puppets, and when someone pulls our strings, we move. These 14 year olds know nothing but what they hear today, so that's their standard for music.
I don't know a lot of 14 year olds myself, but I do have a feeling that over time, the meaning of music has become less to the audience. Back in the 80s, just about everyone was heavily into "their" music. Evolving in the 90s, those people became fewer all the time, and now I wonder, do "fans" still exist in the younger audience? Do they still love music, or do they just adapt to what they're being exposed to - making it a part of their system?
I strongly believe with the current conditions of the mass media and the internet having such a huge influence on the way we live our lives, that's inflicting all of our standards. The corporate people who control what we're being exposed to, now more than ever have the ability to decide what we should like and what not. Culture has become easy and simple, for obvious reasons: if you dumb both the audience and the message down, more people will be able to catch up with it. Popular Hip-Hop has become rather simplistic, cabaret has become something that should only make us laugh for as much as possible. The spirits are gone really.
I understand we can always dig into crates of older music to ensure our own pleasure, if we don't like what's being put out today. Me too, I was listening to Buhloone Mindstate last week, which is why I brought it up. That's some great music... But that's history; that's not what's happening today. Just about all of what's coming out today, means nothing to me. Not from the underground, and not from the mainstream. I used to fool myself into believing in the greatness of the underground, until I realised there's good reason (quality, appeal) these rappers aren't exposed to the masses.
When I find myself analyzing my own taste in music, here's a quick look at my personal top 15 most listened artists (source: Last FM)
1 (873) Boudewijn de Groot (the man in my avatar) (60's and 70's thoughtful / political pop music)
2 (424) The Roots (modern hip-hop with an old school touch)
3 (387) De La Soul (90's hiphop with a message)
3 (387) Common (90's and 2000's hiphop with a message)
5 (386) Koop (2000's jazz with a heavy retro feeling)
6 (371) Jay Dee (Donuts: 2000's jazz hop with a retro feeling)
7 (349) Nas (only from listening to hiphop is dead twice, and illmatic and streets disciple plenty of times)
8 (316) Dead Prez (2000's hip-hop with a message)
9 (297) The Five Corners Quintet (the band in my signature) (2000's jazz with a heavy retro feeling)
10 (212) The Dave Brubeck Quartet (40's and 50's jazz)
11 (207) A Tribe Called Quest (90's hiphop)
12 (156) Mos Def (2000's hiphop with a message, only from listening to Black On Both Sides)
13 (154) Bob Sinclar (2000's dance music mixing)
14 (150) Frank Sinatra (60's and 70's jazz / big band music)
15 (147) KRS-One (80's hip-hop)
...why do I feel I have to be so selective about what I listen to? If I listen to today's music at all, it has to be either thoughtful or retrospective... Isn't that perfectly sad? Why do I even have to resort to listening to music from the 40s to find joy? Why can't today's music bring me just that? I'm 20 years old, and that's just not normal. It's like today's climate wasn't made for music lovers. You'll have to be stuck in the past to love music.
And doesn't the same go for cabaret/stand-up comedy? It used to be all about a mixture of making people laugh and think at the same time, but now all we expect is to be laughing all the time at some shallow jokes. Where has the spirit gone?
Culture has been commercialized. There's not much left of what we once knew as artistic integrity. The dollar sign rules, and therefore artists just feel the need to attract as many people as possible. Under no circumstances they should think of anything else.
And so, let me ask this again. Do today's kids still love music? Does art still move the masses? Does art even exist nowadays?
'Free' as our thoughts are now, there's nothing left to lead us into introspection. We've become puppets, roaming in an endless dream of imaginary freedom and happiness. We'd better not wake up out of that dream - lord knows what the suicide rates might rise to. We're spiritually dead, I'm fuckin' serious about this...
By the way, it's good to see you're "back" :) +1
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Yeah, kool keith should keep it real
He should rap about space and mars...
[kool keith]
Yo, I’m tired of looking at everybody. same boots, skully hats in
90 degree weather, looking to get into clubs for free. I’m not
Smoking blunts, or looking for jazz records at the roosevelt.
I left new york, the city itself was stress depression
High boots and urban beats, that wasn’t my direction
Producers filtering join in with r&b
A million rappers, some clones trying to sound like me
Biting my space styles, biting my horror-core
All I saw was kool keiths on my thaw
Record companies had g’d-off all my royalties
Watching vinyl spin, local groups’ wack mc’s
Some try to rap with that perpetrate mobster crap
Karl kani jeans, fat stomachs in the limosines
Mixtapes by wack dj’s adds doo doo play
I’m on the turnpike, the city drifting down the highway
Like a mirage, the style there is all illusion
On videos out of town, peoples buy confusion
Rolling high with cash pulled over down my eye
Since I’ve been out, y’all can’t see
Chorus:
Is the world made of plastic?
Is the city buried in dreams? (yeah)
Is the world made of plastic?
Cause that’s the way is seems (owww)
Watching tv so bored, while imbiciles hold the mic cord
Graffiti playgrounds are played out, yo how’d that sound?
Army fatigues are weak, is for the minor leagues
No rapping cyphers or brothers in the rented benz
Crews on stage, acting hard with a thousand friends
I saw the place turn plastic, crackers looping beats
People with no deals, walkmen rappin on the streets
I turned my back, 90% of the city sounded wack
Payola scams switched dj’s like a rubber band
Everybody clear with beats trying to be premier
Clearing samples, your sp-12 fake examples
My money grows with green from my own label
While you act rich with no cash on the bigger label
Your tri-state ways are shut down by barricades
In fact I packed my bags, and listened to e-40
Mac mall, c-bo, and other rappers you don’t know
You’re narrow-minded and styles of mind you won’t find it
My sound proceeds with moog and undertone bass
No comic gimmicks with beats rapping in my face
I come back real, solid rock razor steel
Tap your program, show the world I’m the man
You copy poppa large, the industry is large
Chorus x2
As I do see sorta rugged wack beer commercials
Some rappers are bought and puppeteered like the ninja turtles
From manhattan I heat up, yo light up times square
I make noise like open high hats on your cheap snare
No promotional shows, girls wear corn rows
People with hooded sweaters on crack keep me on my toes
I walk with straw hats, fake glasses in the projects
Bring my ghost image so tense on the line of scrimmage
Playing my numbers, waiting for the five to come
Spaghetti out the window, people acting dumb
Fire hazards wake the neighbors, your family’s nosy
I come and go as I please on blockhead mc’s
You bought new sneakers, no car, scrambling on the corner
I’m not the star you are, the city’s fallen far
By mechanism, you’re on my tip
Stay off my penis, you’ve duplicated me for years
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are the one
Chorus x2
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^ good one