West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: M Dogg™ on March 26, 2007, 09:40:51 PM
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http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070326&sportCat=nba&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos2
Putting Kobe in perspective
By Jemele Hill
Page 2
Kobe Bryant is better than Michael Jordan.
Not more successful.
Hasn't had a bigger economic impact.
Hasn't won more MVPs.
Hasn't won more titles.
But he's a better player.
Kobe can do everything Michael did, and even a few things Michael couldn't do.
Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode. And just like Jordan, the more he's pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.
At the very least, Kobe's scoring spree over the last week should put to rest any lingering doubts that he's the best player in the NBA. Yes, better than Steve Nash, who is the best point guard, but not the lethal force that Kobe is. Yes, better than Dwyane Wade, who is certainly closer to the Kobe-Jordan level than LeBron James, but D-Wade's game is not as polished as Kobe's.
Kobe's streak of four straight 50-points-plus games is something none of those players can do, and it's something that hasn't been done since Wilt Chamberlain, who had an NBA-record seven straight 50-point games. Truthfully, Kobe should have tacked another 50 on Golden State on Sunday night.
Of course, the idea that Kobe is better than Jordan -- or even the best player in this league -- is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam. Even though Kobe has proven himself under pressure countless times, he gets the A-Rod treatment.
Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.
In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.
Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.
The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
Besides a different level of media scrutiny, there was definitely a difference in the level of competition during Jordan's heyday compared to now.
Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.
The NBA is tougher now.
Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.
Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson and Patrick Ewing will be among the best centers ever, but none of them affected the league the way Shaq and Tim Duncan have. There are two two-time MVPs in Kobe's own conference (Duncan, Nash), which is a problem Jordan never faced during his championship runs. Seven-footers weren't launching 3s back then. Magic Johnson and the Lakers were on a downward spiral, and the Pistons were on their last legs. It was Michael and everyone else. That's not the case for Kobe.
The shame of it is that Kobe might finish his career without a MVP, even though his ability can be compared only to that of Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain. All this time we've been looking for a player who is better than Jordan, but most of us can't get beyond whether we like or dislike Kobe as a person to recognize his contributions to the game.
Ultimately the MVP award will go to either Nash or Dirk Nowitzki, who are deserving this season, but neither are as good as Kobe. Dallas and Phoenix are strong enough to make the playoffs without their stars. The Lakers, however, are a lottery team without Kobe.
Now that's a valuable player.
Jemele Hill, a Page 2 columnist and writer for ESPN The Magazine, can be reached at jemeleespn@gmail.com.
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Yea, but remember who was FIRST to say it. 8)
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Jemele Hill, a Page 2 columnist and writer for ESPN The Magazine, can be reached at jemeleespn@gmail.com. never heard of this writer he must be new. doesnt even have a proper espn.com e-mail he fuckin with gmail lol
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Of course, the idea that Kobe is better than Jordan -- or even the best player in this league -- is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam. Even though Kobe has proven himself under pressure countless times, he gets the A-Rod treatment.
Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.
In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.
Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.
The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
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perfectly summed it up...
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And hand checking was allowed when Jordan played. Christ, the Utah Jazz of the 90's would crush every team that is playing today too, she's an idiot saying that teams back in the 90's aren't as good as todays teams.
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I am a huge MJ fan, but I have enjoyed watching Kobe play since Shaq left. Hope to see him live in the Tournament Of The Americas here in Vegas.
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Kobe is just as good a defender. His killer instinct is just as pronounced. He can shoot, finish and explode. And just like Jordan, the more he's pissed off, the more unstoppable he is.
At the very least, Kobe's scoring spree over the last week should put to rest any lingering doubts that he's the best player in the NBA. Yes, better than Steve Nash, who is the best point guard, but not the lethal force that Kobe is. Yes, better than Dwyane Wade, who is certainly closer to the Kobe-Jordan level than LeBron James, but D-Wade's game is not as polished as Kobe's.
Kobe's streak of four straight 50-points-plus games is something none of those players can do, and it's something that hasn't been done since Wilt Chamberlain, who had an NBA-record seven straight 50-point games. Truthfully, Kobe should have tacked another 50 on Golden State on Sunday night.
Of course, the idea that Kobe is better than Jordan -- or even the best player in this league -- is as repugnant to some folks as a rectal exam. Even though Kobe has proven himself under pressure countless times, he gets the A-Rod treatment.
Kobe can't please anyone. And it doesn't help that most people suffer from revisionist history when it comes to Jordan, forgetting that he was just as poor a teammate and a ball hog and that he ran off coach Doug Collins like Kobe ran off Phil Jackson the first time.
In fact, you could argue that Jordan was even worse. Far as we know, Kobe hasn't jacked up any of his teammates the way Jordan punched out Steve Kerr and Will Perdue at practice.
Kobe will never be forgiven for Shaq's departure, but you're delusional if you think Jordan wouldn't have had any ego issues playing alongside a player with Shaq's star power.
The best-player argument shouldn't be determined by personal dislike. But if you want to take it there, fine. Jordan was hardly the ideal husband, but only the tabloids were brave enough to venture into his personal life. And what about those gambling issues? If Jordan's life had been covered like Kobe's, we would have an entirely different opinion of His Airness.
On point.
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On point.
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Yea, but remember who was FIRST to say it. 8)
Yeah, me. 8)
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Jordan still > Kobe
Jordan didnt really have that stacked of a team... he eventually made his team better and thats what kobe needs to learn... once he learns that its over! kobe will truely be up there to that level....but we wills ee
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I thought MJ was like a god in America.
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Its a shame Kobe might finish 4th in MVP voting
I heard Mike Wilbon say
1 Nash
2 Dirk
3 LeBron LOL
4 Kobe
Its soo obvious he hates Kobe
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This might be the best article I've ever seen in defense of Kobe versus Jordan. It's probably still 15,000 columnists who'll put Jordan, Wade, Lebron, and even Dirk n Nash over Kobe.
Question is................does this mean that Kobe is the greatest player of all time???
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Yea, but remember who was FIRST to say it. 8)
Yeah, me. 8)
Go back to the year 2002 on WCC...It's in the pages, son. 8)
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Yea, but remember who was FIRST to say it. 8)
Yeah, me. 8)
Go back to the year 2002 on WCC...It's in the pages, son. 8)
Im sure there is somebody out there that said it too before you both :-*
MJ>Kobe
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Yea, but remember who was FIRST to say it. 8)
Yeah, me. 8)
Go back to the year 2002 on WCC...It's in the pages, son. 8)
Im sure there is somebody out there that said it too before you both :-*
MJ>Kobe
You think anyone had the gut feeling that Kobe would be greater than Jordan as soon he was drafted by the Lakers?... 8)
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Its a shame Kobe might finish 4th in MVP voting
I heard Mike Wilbon say
1 Nash
2 Dirk
3 LeBron LOL
4 Kobe
Its soo obvious he hates Kobe
Wilbon is a fuckin moron,I hate that guy,fuckin clueless
As much as I dislike Kobe as a person he is definitely the best player in the game and should be the MVP without question. If anyone is/was close to MJ its Bryant.
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Yea, but remember who was FIRST to say it. 8)
Yeah, me. 8)
Go back to the year 2002 on WCC...It's in the pages, son. 8)
Im sure there is somebody out there that said it too before you both :-*
MJ>Kobe
You think anyone had the gut feeling that Kobe would be greater than Jordan as soon he was drafted by the Lakers?... 8)
i sure do ;D
My uncle is a huge Lakers fan and i remember him talking about Kobe being greater then Jordan when he was still at Lower Merion. My Uncle used to rave about Kobe, and how he wanted the Lakers to get him so bad. 8)
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Jordan still > Kobe
Jordan didnt really have that stacked of a team... he eventually made his team better and thats what kobe needs to learn... once he learns that its over! kobe will truely be up there to that level....but we wills ee
Who did Jordan make better? Please explain this to me...I've always heard this bullshit, but never really understood the logic behind it. Kobe does for his teammates the same exact thing Jordan did. DRAW DOUBLE TEAMS! Only Jordan lovers or Kobe haters say Jordan made his teammates better and Kobe doesn't... :-X
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Jordan still > Kobe
Jordan didnt really have that stacked of a team... he eventually made his team better and thats what kobe needs to learn... once he learns that its over! kobe will truely be up there to that level....but we wills ee
Who did Jordan make better? Please explain this to me...I've always heard this bullshit, but never really understood the logic behind it. Kobe does for his teammates the same exact thing Jordan did. DRAW DOUBLE TEAMS! Only Jordan lovers or Kobe haters say Jordan made his teammates better and Kobe doesn't... :-X
they both did. Jud Beuchler is one that stands out to me, he looked good on the Bulls. After he played with MJ did he ever do anything again? Kobe makes guys like Sasha look decent due to open looks kobe creates
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Jordan still > Kobe
Jordan didnt really have that stacked of a team... he eventually made his team better and thats what kobe needs to learn... once he learns that its over! kobe will truely be up there to that level....but we wills ee
Who did Jordan make better? Please explain this to me...I've always heard this bullshit, but never really understood the logic behind it. Kobe does for his teammates the same exact thing Jordan did. DRAW DOUBLE TEAMS! Only Jordan lovers or Kobe haters say Jordan made his teammates better and Kobe doesn't... :-X
they both did. Jud Beuchler is one that stands out to me, he looked good on the Bulls. After he played with MJ did he ever do anything again? Kobe makes guys like Sasha look decent due to open looks kobe creates
Yea, they both pretty much did for their teammates the exact same thing, draw double-teams...And Jordan still didn't get to his playmaking stage until his 30s!
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Jordan still > Kobe
Jordan didnt really have that stacked of a team... he eventually made his team better and thats what kobe needs to learn... once he learns that its over! kobe will truely be up there to that level....but we wills ee
Who did Jordan make better? Please explain this to me...I've always heard this bullshit, but never really understood the logic behind it. Kobe does for his teammates the same exact thing Jordan did. DRAW DOUBLE TEAMS! Only Jordan lovers or Kobe haters say Jordan made his teammates better and Kobe doesn't... :-X
they both did. Jud Beuchler is one that stands out to me, he looked good on the Bulls. After he played with MJ did he ever do anything again? Kobe makes guys like Sasha look decent due to open looks kobe creates
Yea, they both pretty much did for their teammates the exact same thing, draw double-teams...And Jordan still didn't get to his playmaking stage until his 30s!
for sure, we all know Kobe developed much quicker
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like i've stated a million times they're on the same playing level as far as i'm concerned. but the jordan legacy will most likely never be touched, and if it is it'll be after the social concious of him has faded, much like taht of oscar robertson.
if kobe can get at least 1 championship without shaq i think he'll start winning over nay-sayers . gets two, the talk will get more serious....it's all about rings, it's all about rings
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Jordan still > Kobe
Jordan didnt really have that stacked of a team... he eventually made his team better and thats what kobe needs to learn... once he learns that its over! kobe will truely be up there to that level....but we wills ee
Who did Jordan make better? Please explain this to me...I've always heard this bullshit, but never really understood the logic behind it. Kobe does for his teammates the same exact thing Jordan did. DRAW DOUBLE TEAMS! Only Jordan lovers or Kobe haters say Jordan made his teammates better and Kobe doesn't... :-X
they both did. Jud Beuchler is one that stands out to me, he looked good on the Bulls. After he played with MJ did he ever do anything again? Kobe makes guys like Sasha look decent due to open looks kobe creates
Yea, they both pretty much did for their teammates the exact same thing, draw double-teams...And Jordan still didn't get to his playmaking stage until his 30s!
for sure, we all know Kobe developed much quicker
How so? Jordan won the MVP award in his 3rd year and was in the running in the second.
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Jordan still > Kobe
Jordan didnt really have that stacked of a team... he eventually made his team better and thats what kobe needs to learn... once he learns that its over! kobe will truely be up there to that level....but we wills ee
Who did Jordan make better? Please explain this to me...I've always heard this bullshit, but never really understood the logic behind it. Kobe does for his teammates the same exact thing Jordan did. DRAW DOUBLE TEAMS! Only Jordan lovers or Kobe haters say Jordan made his teammates better and Kobe doesn't... :-X
they both did. Jud Beuchler is one that stands out to me, he looked good on the Bulls. After he played with MJ did he ever do anything again? Kobe makes guys like Sasha look decent due to open looks kobe creates
Yea, they both pretty much did for their teammates the exact same thing, draw double-teams...And Jordan still didn't get to his playmaking stage until his 30s!
for sure, we all know Kobe developed much quicker
How so? Jordan won the MVP award in his 3rd year and was in the running in the second.
LMAO@comparing Jordan's situation in the NBA with Kobe's. :-X
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great read on the Kobe situation but there are a few things that Jordan got that Kobe never will or at least it seems that way and that is the Ref treatment (Jordan Calls).It look more and more that the NBA wants Wade to be the next it and not Kobe even after what Kobe has done in this leauge and what he is still doing.Jordan would get all kinds of call on the defensive end and on offense also but Kobe seems to get alot of hate from the refs as compared to Wade who is getting the Jordan treatment.In my Eyes i know Kobe is better than Jordan but if and when Kobe gets another ring mabe Kobe will shut the haters up.
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I heavily disagree.
We have a bunch of grown men to happily quote and agree with an unknown female writer... on a rediculous claim. I think I'm gonna stop checking for this section for a week or so.
Her main point is how she assumes that people won't give Kobe the recognition he deserves because he's an asshole, while saying that Jordan was an asshole himself. But if Jordan was an asshole himself, how come he still got all the recognition? Is the world this unfair or was he just that good? Plus, knowing that she probably just likes to get dicked by Kobe who is known to cheat on his wife, she doesn't exactly get to call other people out on letting personal issues interfere with their judgement.
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I heavily disagree.
We have a bunch of grown men to happily quote and agree with an unknown female writer... on a rediculous claim. I think I'm gonna stop checking for this section for a week or so.
Her main point is how she assumes that people won't give Kobe the recognition he deserves because he's an asshole, while saying that Jordan was an asshole himself. But if Jordan was an asshole himself, how come he still got all the recognition? Is the world this unfair or was he just that good? Plus, knowing that she probably just likes to get dicked by Kobe who is known to cheat on his wife, she doesn't exactly get to call other people out on letting personal issues interfere with their judgement.
Jordan was the ultimate marketing tool for the NBA...EVERYONE knows he got the biggest push of all time. Kobe does not get that push, he gets a push backwards...And add to that, the new rules make it THAT MUCH tougher for perimeter players than when Jordan was playing. When Jordan played, there was ILLEGAL DEFENSE, no zones. That means if you didn't guard your man 1-on-1 and went to help out on Jordan, you'd have to run all the way to Jordan in order for it to be legal, no guarding areas, no chances to throw as many players at his direction. Kobe is just a more refined offensive player in pretty much every way. And his defense is easily on par, if not better than Jordan's as well...Kobe's STILL entering his prime though.
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The NBA is tougher now
LMFAO
hell no. the league is half as good as it was 10 years ago, there is no argument
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Yea, but remember who was FIRST to say it. 8)
Yeah, me. 8)
LMFAO!
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The NBA is tougher now
LMFAO
hell no. the league is half as good as it was 10 years ago, there is no argument
The rules are tougher for perimeter oriented players buddy...I'm sure you have no idea what the fuck that means, but yea, don't speak on what you don't know please...PeACe
PS. There are way more athletes and physical specimen in todays game than there was when Jordan played.
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LOL@ 7even saying he isnt gonna check for this section for a week. Like anyone cares :-*
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I agree that Kobe can do everything MJ could and a few things that he couldn't, the thing Jordan had especially in his younger days was more ups than Kobe ever had, not to say that Kobe doesn't but Jordan had unbelievable jumping ability in his early days, but Kobe developed his game at an earlier age than Jordan and he also has that 3 point range which Jordan never really developed
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I agree that Kobe can do everything MJ could and a few things that he couldn't, the thing Jordan had especially in his younger days was more ups than Kobe ever had, not to say that Kobe doesn't but Jordan had unbelievable jumping ability in his early days, but Kobe developed his game at an earlier age than Jordan and he also has that 3 point range which Jordan never really developed
Kobe doesn't have ups? Thats one of the most absurd things I've ever heard...
VVVVVVVVV
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^
MJ had more ups in his younger days is what I said, not that Kobe doesn't have of course that would be absurd
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^
MJ had more ups in his younger days is what I said, not that Kobe doesn't have of course that would be absurd
It's not nearly as much of a difference as you made it seem...As if Jordan could fly and Kobe could barely get off the ground. Kobe is better at some dunks and Jordan is better at others. Kobe gets mad air, that's the first thing that made people compare him to Jordan when he came in the league...
(http://www.kobe-bryant.org/images/kobe-air.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/tzovas/gallery/kobe4.jpg)
(http://www.multisports.com/newspics/resize-KobeAirBorne.jpg)
(http://www.authenticsignedsports.com/prodimgs/prod_283-iv1zu0.jpg)
(http://www.projectwasted.com/upload/uploads/kobe_bryant_dunk2.jpg)
(http://www.nba.com/media/finals2004/040709_kobe_dunk.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j251/krystal1033/Kobe-dunks-2.jpg)
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f145/LV2XLR8/Kobe/KobeDunk.jpg)
(http://www.memoram.com/Kobe_Light.jpg)
So see...It's NOT their biggest difference.
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The NBA is tougher now
LMFAO
hell no. the league is half as good as it was 10 years ago, there is no argument
The rules are tougher for perimeter oriented players buddy...I'm sure you have no idea what the fuck that means, but yea, don't speak on what you don't know please...PeACe
PS. There are way more athletes and physical specimen in todays game than there was when Jordan played.
Ever heard of hand-checking ya dumb cock? Just shut up about Kobe.
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The NBA is tougher now
LMFAO
hell no. the league is half as good as it was 10 years ago, there is no argument
The rules are tougher for perimeter oriented players buddy...I'm sure you have no idea what the fuck that means, but yea, don't speak on what you don't know please...PeACe
PS. There are way more athletes and physical specimen in todays game than there was when Jordan played.
Ever heard of hand-checking ya dumb cock? Just shut up about Kobe.
Ever heard of the Jordan treatment? Why resort to name calling when you have no aguments? Kobe 28 > Jordan 28. :-*
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might be better athletes/. but there way less players who know how to play the game.... players are not as good period, maybe more athletic but not nearly as good
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might be better athletes/. but there way less players who know how to play the game.... players are not as good period, maybe more athletic but not nearly as good
Lets ignore the fact that Jordan couldn't be looked at, let alone touched without the whistle being blown... due to ILLEGAL DEFENSE an NO ZONE rules, the game was still played in a fashion which made it easier for a player like Jordan to score...there's no argument there, this is KNOWN.
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Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kobe :D
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Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kobe :D
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Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kobe :D
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Kobe 28 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jordan 28. :D
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Big Man Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe
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Big Man Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe
ROFLMFAO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LOL
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Jordan never got called for travelling when the game was on the line.
Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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^ LOL
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oh god. one reason why I don't come into this section.
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Jordan never got called for travelling when the game was on the line.
Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe
Fact: Jordan has travelled more than Kobe. Jordan would have never been called for that on a crucial possession. Kobe > Jordan + the refs. :-*
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Jordan never got called for travelling when the game was on the line.
Jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe
Fact: Jordan has travelled more than Kobe. Jordan would have never been called for that on a crucial possession. Kobe > Jordan + the refs. :-*
Jordan wouldn't have have took a jump and then skipped his way to a loss like your boy.
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Jordan woulda' never been called for a foul on that Yao Ming moving pick...
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Jordan woulda' never been called for a foul on that Yao Ming moving pick...
Jordan would have never flopped on a Yao pick and fouled somebody taking a three. Jordan > Kobe.
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Jordan > Kobe.
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Jordan woulda' never been called for a foul on that Yao Ming moving pick...
Jordan would have never flopped on a Yao pick and fouled somebody taking a three. Jordan > Kobe.
Yea, it was really a "flop"...
http://www.youtube.com/v/bas-YyViCmc
You lose.
Kobe>Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>T-Mac. :-*
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Jordan woulda' never been called for a foul on that Yao Ming moving pick...
Jordan would have never flopped on a Yao pick and fouled somebody taking a three. Jordan > Kobe.
Yea, it was really a "flop"...
http://www.youtube.com/v/bas-YyViCmc
You lose.
Kobe>Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>T-Mac. :-*
(http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/curtisssox2.gif)
ELIORRRRRR!
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You lose.
8)
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A Few of You Didn't Agree With My Kobe Column (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/070330&sportCat=nba)
By Jamele Hill
Page 2
What is so fascinating about the stir created by my "Kobe is better than Michael Jordan" column -- which generated more than 2,000 e-mails -- is that a couple months ago, I wrote a column on "The Hook Up" and no athlete generated more vitriol than His Airness.
A taste:
Do you suppose they were debating who's better at the 2003 All-Star Game? "The ultimate Hook Up of all time is Michael Jordan. Not even close. America fell in love with him the moment word got out that he was cut from his basketball team in high school. His story is the American Dream. His attempt at baseball, gambling issues and marital problems did nothing to his Hook Up."
Disclosure: Dan is from Salt Lake City, but valid, valid points.
More:
Joe, a North Carolinian, wrote: "The man gambled a good bit of his money away, [allegedly] had a long-term affair with [had to be deleted for fear of a lawsuit], ran the Wizards into the ground, single-handedly destroyed Kwame Brown, and was overcompetitive to the point of violence. Despite all this, we love Michael Jordan. The man could get away with murder anywhere in North Carolina. I should know, I grew up in Durham."
Compare that to what reader Richard Kavalauskas wrote to me on Thursday, which summed up the overall sentiment toward my Jordan-Kobe column: "You are sick. The article you just wrote is blasphemy."
Based on the response, the only athlete who could possibly have generated such heated emotion is O.J. Simpson.
Kobe certainly has his defenders, but it is amazing how many people were more than willing to use Kobe's personal life as ammunition in a Jordan-Kobe basketball debate. People are aware of Jordan's personal lapses, but there is a state of denial there that is just startling.
About 75 percent of e-mailers believe that the fellow on the left is the better player.Anyway, 75 percent of you disagreed with me, which is no surprise. But the responses were so overwhelming, it was worthy of sharing. But a couple quick explainers first:
(1) I do not believe the NBA is better now than it was then. It's my fault for not explaining this better. At least a third of you who e-mailed thought I was on crack -- and seriously at least 400-500 e-mails had, "Are you on crack?" in the subject line -- for even entertaining the possibility the NBA is a better product now.
No, it's not. That's not what I'm saying. I believe today's player is more athletic, stronger and has more raw ability than players in the '80s and early '90s. Clearly those players in the Magic, Bird and Isiah era were more polished, tougher and had unbelievable basketball acumen. It was a better game because the players were more skilled. Today, we see guys with extraordinary physical gifts and no fundamentals. So, to sum up: Today's player has more talent, but yesterday's player was a better basketball player.
(2) That being said, there are teams in the league right now that were better than at least three of the teams Jordan beat in the Finals. The Mavericks, Suns and Spurs are better than Clyde Drexler's Trail Blazers, Gary Payton's Sonics and Charles Barkley's Suns. The coaches: Avery Johnson, Mike D'Antoni and Gregg Popovich versus Rick Adelman, George Karl and Paul Westphal. Not even a debate there. Drexler was horribly overrated -- a slasher, terrific shot-blocker and rebounder for a 6-foot-7 guy, but he was a subpar shooter and mediocre ballhandler. You play the who-would-you-rather-have game with the rosters and you would favor most of the 2007 players. Nash or KJ? Duncan or Kemp? Stoudemire or Kemp? Shawn Marion or Buck Williams? The only untouchables are Payton and Barkley. And by the way, I'm not entirely convinced Jordan's Bulls could have beaten the Rockets in '94 or '95 when Hakeem Olajuwon was at the height of his filthiness (I mean that in a good way).
(3) I'm not totally certifiable. I know T-Mac or Vince Carter couldn't stop an 8-year-old on a PAL team. Dwyane Wade's defense also is suspect. My argument wasn't about their defense, but their offense. The evolution of size and skill from the '80s until now is obvious. This is a league filled with very tall, very big, athletic people who can shoot and do ridiculously dumb things above the rim. When Jordan played, some could match his athleticism, but not many. These days, 40-inch verticals are a dime a dozen. Jordan's killer instinct will always set him apart, but if he played today, his athleticism would not be the distinguishing factor it was before. I concede, though, he would have nearly 40 a game.
(4) I'll say it again: Kobe is just as good or better than MJ on the defensive end. Jordan was an unbelievable defender, but some of you seemed to forget he was playing alongside a defender who was just as capable -- Scottie Pippen. If you think that didn't help Jordan beef up his defensive stats, you are delusional. The reason I give Kobe even more credit is (A) he's the only player in the league even remotely interested in being a good defender and (B) he's been named to the All-Defensive first team four times during an age when every rule is geared to create more offense. Will Kobe ever win Defensive Player of the Year? Probably not. But then again, he probably won't win a lot of the awards Jordan received because people really, really hate Kobe. The wall of hate that Kobe faces is why he remains underappreciated. No matter how much surgery he performs on his image, most people always will view him as an egotistical ball hog who got away with a major sexual assault even though he was never convicted. Hey, people just prefer to show blind loyalty to a player some people believe is a degenerate, philandering gambler whose teammates would have killed him if they didn't fear prison.
(5) And yes, I still believe Kobe is a better player. This is an eyeball argument. Kobe will never be the best player who played the game. That achievement belongs to MJ alone. He'll never impact the world the way MJ did. But from a skill perspective, Kobe has MJ beat.
Now, a few e-mails:
Matthew Ivaliotes wrote: "Kobe Bryant is indeed comparable to a retired player. Dominique Wilkins. Both players were good enough to draw glory to themselves, alienating too many teammates, and selfish enough to make all but certain that they can't climb the mountain. Without Shaquille O'Neal, you never would have had the thought hit your head that Kobe Bryant is even an all time top-five player, much less No. 1."
Everybody needs help, even the great ones. How many titles did Jordan win without Pippen? I'll eat complete crow about this argument if Kobe gets a legitimate sidekick and doesn't do anything. So talk to me when his sidekick isn't Smush Parker.
From Steve Madison: Subject line: WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?
"There is no way Kobe is/was better than Jordan. Jordan played in an era of Magic, Larry, Karl, Charles, etc. Jordan played in an era of team basketball and that's why he has six rings to Kobe's three. Better teammate, better defender and better player overall. Jordan could have put up 60 a night if he wanted to. Here's my list:
Better defender: Jordan
Better shooter: Jordan
Better passer: Jordan
Better teammate: Jordan
Better leader: Jordan
Better rapist: Kobe
The fact that the sexual-assault charge against Kobe was dropped was often overlooked by e-mailers.
And finally, my favorite e-mail, from Amsterdam:
"Hello, I'm Sharone Wright, a former top-six pick in the NBA. I was around Kobe my first and second year with the 76ers (Bryant worked out with the 76ers when he was in high school). Kobe would be the first to be at practice and he would be the last to leave. You want to talk about a will to win? This kid was amazing. He has a mad streak only the good ones have. When he wants to stop you, he will. When he wants 50, he'll give you 50. Simple as that. "I played a lot of games against Jordan, and truthfully Michael was the greatest I've ever seen, but Kobe has everything and even more to his game. The comparisons are so equal. So many critics let their displeasure for Kobe in his personal life blind them when it comes to his game and his place as one of the top-three players of all time. Kobe should be going on his fourth MVP, but they are so blinded by what their perception of Kobe is. Say what you want, but poll 20 NBA players right now, the ones that don't hold a grudge against Kobe, and they will tell you that it isn't even close to him and another player in the league. That's real talk for you."
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So because he's the best player in the league right now, he's the best ever? Because he worked hard as a youngsta and wanted to win, he's the GOAT? Thanks for your input though, Sharone Wright, and keep thinking somebody cares.
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So because he's the best player in the league right now, he's the best ever? Because he worked hard as a youngsta and wanted to win, he's the GOAT? Thanks for your input though, Sharone Wright, and keep thinking somebody cares.
She should keep writing her racist articles too since I heard that's another hobby.
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You lose.
8)
Nah the Lakers lost kid.
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Kobe>Jordan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>T-Mac. :-*
Magic>MJ>Kobe, to clear things up...But Kobe will end his career as the GOAT, if he keeps at the pace he's going.
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^^That's as a career...At the rate Kobe is going, he is greater and will definitely be the greatest of all time when he's through. 8)
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the first thing i notice about this thread is that now i know is the only one acctually making points to help his argument. all anyone whos in favor of jordan has to say is "your so wrong" and "LMFAO at thinking that" or whatever. Now I'm not a laker fan...and ive always said jordan is the best no question...but everything that lady has said made sense. I can't help but agree...Ide really like to see the exact same kind of article arguing for MJ so I could hear both sides with all the facts. Kobe really is further along then MJ...and Im willing to bet that ever since shaq left, kobe will be following a similar path MJ had enroute to winning rings that he lead his team to. Just wait...his team is lousy...hes gonna get a sidekick and some surrounding players and the lakers will be a force to be reckoned with for awhile. But till then its Pistons in 07...fuck the Mavs and the Suns. BITCHES.
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on point
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any time you use Jamele Hill as a source for your argument it's an automatic L :laugh: