West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on March 28, 2007, 07:22:55 AM
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It easily surpasses anything they do in America, as far as holding the president accountable and demanding answers to questions. I should hate Tony Blair for killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc... but I do give him props for the way he responds to tough questions over and over, without more than a moments thought, and he's also very clever and humorous at the same time. I was very impressed at how organized these proceedings are and they challenge Blair and hold him accountable, and he has to answer them directly, and it's very loud and noisy in the room with many different parties represented but somehow they are able to at the same time organize and manage everything in a very polite way.
Don't know much about it, but I was able to view this on CSpan a few times and I'd probably be right in saying no country has anything that can compare to it.
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It's contrived polite theatre....I don't see where Tony Blair has been held to account at all, in fact if you look at the policies of the respective parties there is nothing that distinguishes one from the other. I posted this on another forum but since you brought up this subject the points are all the more poignant.
Why is everyone obsessed with this need to tribalise, "oh it's the lefts ideas" the "damn right wingers". Each of the major parties is defined along with one of these lines or we have this nonsense of the centrists etc. If this is true then why is it when these parties are in opposition, they attack these policies, yet more often than not when they get into power none of these laws or policies are changed. The status quo is maintained regardless of who is in power.
Examples,
Labour used to attack the conservatives for their stealth taxing and then when labour come to power stealth taxes rise exponentially.
These terror laws are criticised and castigated and yet without the co-operation of the tories these laws would never have come to pass.
For all the criticism, some more scathing than others, when have we heard the tories pledge to scrap these laws?
How many of these laws which reduce civil rights are scrapped?
Labour attack the conservatives for beaurocracy, yet as soon as new labour shoot to prominence, big government becomes ever bigger.
Labour rounds on the conservatives for not preserving the integrity of the english countryside and yet then redefines the green belt to allow the destruction of the green belt to continue.
The conservatives use the Iraq War as a battering ram to weaken and mock the labour party but they voted for the damn war.
Semantical word games are launched which attempt to persuade the potential voter of "prudence" and yet government spending under both parties would remain by and large identical.
Even on the politics show of all places, there is a growing acceptance and admittance that nothig clearly distinguishes one party from the other, it's more about the presentation and the perception of the politicians themselves.
We had the tired fake contrived image that the conservatives were against labour becoming ever more immersed in allow european law to supercede sovereign law, with their slogan "in europe not run by europe" yet they are not offering anything different.
Different faces same management
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You misunderstand me. I wasn't talking at all about left, right wingers, or any of that type of stuff.
All I was saying was that the House Of Commons does offer a system of organized, polite, debate, that surpasses anything else I've seen. I admit I probably used the wrong word when I said "held accountable".
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its certainly entertaining stuff when a hot debate is, and you have to be very inteligent and quick on your feet if you have any hope of surviving. The best debates were back in labours first term when william haig was the leader of the opposition
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I understand what you are saying and it can be amusing and heated but the fact is the debates do not have a real effect. Like I said, it is theatre albeit funny theatre at times, it is very easy to be lured into it and engrossed in it but it's a very artificial environment which you are viewing.
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virtuoso is right
u can vote for tories all you like, and get them in, but they still gonna be fucking something up
you cant please everyone
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it aint like the cornfields of the midwest like where you're from bryguy. dazzling isnt it?
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most of the problems stem from the civil service...........
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It easily surpasses anything they do in America, as far as holding the president accountable and demanding answers to questions. I should hate Tony Blair for killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc... but I do give him props for the way he responds to tough questions over and over, without more than a moments thought, and he's also very clever and humorous at the same time. I was very impressed at how organized these proceedings are and they challenge Blair and hold him accountable, and he has to answer them directly, and it's very loud and noisy in the room with many different parties represented but somehow they are able to at the same time organize and manage everything in a very polite way.
Don't know much about it, but I was able to view this on CSpan a few times and I'd probably be right in saying no country has anything that can compare to it.
canada
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england has a prime minister not a president.. fyi.
and australia has similar shit poppin off. but in australia it's funny as, they just give eachother shit the whole time.
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I should hate Tony Blair for killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc...
You should also hate the Muslim terrorists who also have been killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc... but you seem to let them slide, so I guess it's not too far fetched for you to let Blair slide too. ;)
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I should hate Tony Blair for killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc...
You should also hate the Muslim terrorists who also have been killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc... but you seem to let them slide, so I guess it's not too far fetched for you to let Blair slide too. ;)
you got it twisted man muslims are supreme beings and they're always right, never do anything wrong - even when they kill each other and even more so when killing non muslims.
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australia has similar shit poppin off. but in australia it's funny as, they just give eachother shit the whole time.
Ha true, parliamentary priviledge has ended a lot of politicians careers in the past.
As for the topic; I think Blair had quite a lot going for his legacy in the beginning but lost it when he decided to play a major role in the US invasion and ever since then it's progressed down hill. I think stepping down now would at least give his party any sort of chance and would see him avioding anymore scandals i.e. recent cash for honours.
Whether you agree or disagree with what he said in his final address at the Labour Party Conference, that speech was quality. I think Cameron would best suit a new direction for Britian even though i didn't really like his style in the begining, mainly for appearing to be trying to hard to be seen as commoner. Don't really trust Brown, even more so now after the budget was announced in which he appears to be applying more pressure on the pockets of the lower class.
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You should also hate the Muslim terrorists who also have been killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc... but you seem to let them slide, so I guess it's not too far fetched for you to let Blair slide too. ;)
It's not Muslims killing Muslims in Iraq; but rather it is Muslims killing those Iraqi's who are benefiting and aiding America's occupation. Same thing in Afganistan. As Malcolm X would say, the Muslims are having to go and kill all the Uncle Tom's in Afganistan and Iraq.
LOL... one time Malcolm X was talking about China's old revolution and he said, "So they went and killed all the Uncle Tom's".
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You should also hate the Muslim terrorists who also have been killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc... but you seem to let them slide, so I guess it's not too far fetched for you to let Blair slide too. ;)
It's not Muslims killing Muslims in Iraq; but rather it is Muslims killing those Iraqi's who are benefiting and aiding America's occupation. Same thing in Afganistan. As Malcolm X would say, the Muslims are having to go and kill all the Uncle Tom's in Afganistan and Iraq.
LOL... one time Malcolm X was talking about China's old revolution and he said, "So they went and killed all the Uncle Tom's".
Your dumbest post ever , so who is benefitting the shia ,so they should all be killed ,u realise the only iraqis benefiting are those who are in the goverment ,people are getting the heads chopped of just because there names are ali,hassan,etc(shia) or omar,othman,etc(sunni).poeple getting blown away because they go to the wrong mosque or the market in the wrong area.well most of this shit was sparked due to the occupation, but the fact is sunnis are killin shias and the other way around(thats excluding the christians).blaming the invasion won't help us in any way.
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You should also hate the Muslim terrorists who also have been killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc... but you seem to let them slide, so I guess it's not too far fetched for you to let Blair slide too. ;)
It's not Muslims killing Muslims in Iraq; but rather it is Muslims killing those Iraqi's who are benefiting and aiding America's occupation. Same thing in Afganistan. As Malcolm X would say, the Muslims are having to go and kill all the Uncle Tom's in Afganistan and Iraq.
LOL... one time Malcolm X was talking about China's old revolution and he said, "So they went and killed all the Uncle Tom's".
why don't u go join the jihad and kill as many shia's as u can
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You should also hate the Muslim terrorists who also have been killing so many Muslims in Iraq and Afganistan, etc... but you seem to let them slide, so I guess it's not too far fetched for you to let Blair slide too. ;)
It's not Muslims killing Muslims in Iraq; but rather it is Muslims killing those Iraqi's who are benefiting and aiding America's occupation. Same thing in Afganistan. As Malcolm X would say, the Muslims are having to go and kill all the Uncle Tom's in Afganistan and Iraq.
LOL... one time Malcolm X was talking about China's old revolution and he said, "So they went and killed all the Uncle Tom's".
man that uncle tom talk dont play no more infinite
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It's not Muslims killing Muslims in Iraq; but rather it is Muslims killing those Iraqi's who are benefiting and aiding America's occupation. Same thing in Afganistan. As Malcolm X would say, the Muslims are having to go and kill all the Uncle Tom's in Afganistan and Iraq.
Who are also Muslim.
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australia has similar shit poppin off. but in australia it's funny as, they just give eachother shit the whole time.
Ha true, parliamentary priviledge has ended a lot of politicians careers in the past.
As for the topic; I think Blair had quite a lot going for his legacy in the beginning but lost it when he decided to play a major role in the US invasion and ever since then it's progressed down hill. I think stepping down now would at least give his party any sort of chance and would see him avioding anymore scandals i.e. recent cash for honours.
Whether you agree or disagree with what he said in his final address at the Labour Party Conference, that speech was quality. I think Cameron would best suit a new direction for Britian even though i didn't really like his style in the begining, mainly for appearing to be trying to hard to be seen as commoner. Don't really trust Brown, even more so now after the budget was announced in which he appears to be applying more pressure on the pockets of the lower class.
i thought his speach was pretty corny
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Your dumbest post ever , so who is benefitting the shia ,so they should all be killed ,u realise the only iraqis benefiting are those who are in the goverment ,people are getting the heads chopped of just because there names are ali,hassan,etc(shia) or omar,othman,etc(sunni).poeple getting blown away because they go to the wrong mosque or the market in the wrong area.well most of this shit was sparked due to the occupation, but the fact is sunnis are killin shias and the other way around(thats excluding the christians).blaming the invasion won't help us in any way.
Alright. So then if we are to follow your response above, then Iraqi's are just savages, because you are suggesting that they are all running around killing indiscriminately which would make them savage animals that need to be locked in cages.
If that's the way you want to believe then that doesn't say much for you being an Arab and a Muslim. Because Iraqi's are Arab and Muslim acting like the savages you describe. Don't you realize how your implicating yourself?
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Your dumbest post ever , so who is benefitting the shia ,so they should all be killed ,u realise the only iraqis benefiting are those who are in the goverment ,people are getting the heads chopped of just because there names are ali,hassan,etc(shia) or omar,othman,etc(sunni).poeple getting blown away because they go to the wrong mosque or the market in the wrong area.well most of this shit was sparked due to the occupation, but the fact is sunnis are killin shias and the other way around(thats excluding the christians).blaming the invasion won't help us in any way.
Alright. So then if we are to follow your response above, then Iraqi's are just savages, because you are suggesting that they are all running around killing indiscriminately which would make them savage animals that need to be locked in cages.
If that's the way you want to believe then that doesn't say much for you being an Arab and a Muslim. Because Iraqi's are Arab and Muslim acting like the savages you describe. Don't you realize how your implicating yourself?
they are acting like savages! yesterday a truck bomb kills 80 shias then iraqi police get revenge by killing 70 sunnis, what the fuck is a all this killing achieving? all the educated ppl have left because of all this killing, these are the people you need to rebuild iraq and make it into a prosperous country, iraqis need to put their differences behind them, reconcile and then gradually the brain drain will be reversed.
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iraqis need to put their differences behind them, reconcile and then gradually the brain drain will be reversed.
LOL @ this genius
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Your dumbest post ever , so who is benefitting the shia ,so they should all be killed ,u realise the only iraqis benefiting are those who are in the goverment ,people are getting the heads chopped of just because there names are ali,hassan,etc(shia) or omar,othman,etc(sunni).poeple getting blown away because they go to the wrong mosque or the market in the wrong area.well most of this shit was sparked due to the occupation, but the fact is sunnis are killin shias and the other way around(thats excluding the christians).blaming the invasion won't help us in any way.
Alright. So then if we are to follow your response above, then Iraqi's are just savages, because you are suggesting that they are all running around killing indiscriminately which would make them savage animals that need to be locked in cages.
If that's the way you want to believe then that doesn't say much for you being an Arab and a Muslim. Because Iraqi's are Arab and Muslim acting like the savages you describe. Don't you realize how your implicating yourself?
so because i take pride in being arab and muslim ,i turn a blind eye on watever my people are committing.well u can say whoever is commiting these crime is just a savage.
thing is u got a dream of wat islam like form living in america ,that u belive muslims are just untouchable.
it like a fat bitch getting some fat burning supplement thinking this well solve her problems.
Islam would function in the way u invision if every muslim in the world reads the koran and sunna.and follows the koran and sunna from his view ,without lessing to preachers imams + having a open mind
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so because i take pride in being arab and muslim ,i turn a blind eye on watever my people are committing.well u can say whoever is commiting these crime is just a savage.
thing is u got a dream of wat islam like form living in america ,that u belive muslims are just untouchable.
it like a fat bitch getting some fat burning supplement thinking this well solve her problems.
Okay, you win. Let's say hypothetically I follow your logic. All the Iraqi's are just fucked up, both the resistance amongst them is fucked up, the leaders are fucked up, Arabs and Muslims are just savages for some reason ever since the Prophet Muhammad and they'll continue to be that way till the Mehdi comes down from the clouds any day now. You feel better now?
Islam would function in the way u invision if every muslim in the world reads the koran and sunna.and follows the koran and sunna from his view ,without lessing to preachers imams + having a open mind
No, don't put words into my mouth. I never suggested that we live in a world where every Muslim is going to follow the Qu'ran and Sunnah. When first of all there are differences of interpretation and level of application in those things, as well there should be. The Qu'ran was a Univeral and timeless message that was to reach and inspire all people on an individual and also group basis. The Sunnah is different from the Qu'ran in that I don't believe that it is an alltogether timeless message and that some parts of the Sunnah were directly related to the conditions of the times.
Anyway, to get back to the subject, there are always going to be good and bad people, and different interpretations. I'm not calling for some kind of utopia. You hear me mention the Ottoman Empire that was leading the Ummah up until 1924 as an example of a realistic example of a state run Islamic society that deserved the support of the Ummah.
But Arab nationalists like yourself want to go and say fuck the Ottoman Empire, fuck all the new Arab leaders, and then fuck all the grassroots movements existing within states. So now you've done said fuck everybody. Which only implicates an Arab Muslim like yourself as being inadequete and in need of Britian to run your affairs. Egypt, your country was Britians first bitch in the Muslim world, it was from there that they gained their foothold and spread their influence into the Muslim world.
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you lost bryguy. step your myspace page up too its pathetic
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so because i take pride in being arab and muslim ,i turn a blind eye on watever my people are committing.well u can say whoever is commiting these crime is just a savage.
thing is u got a dream of wat islam like form living in america ,that u belive muslims are just untouchable.
it like a fat bitch getting some fat burning supplement thinking this well solve her problems.
Okay, you win. Let's say hypothetically I follow your logic. All the Iraqi's are just fucked up, both the resistance amongst them is fucked up, the leaders are fucked up, Arabs and Muslims are just savages for some reason ever since the Prophet Muhammad and they'll continue to be that way till the Mehdi comes down from the clouds any day now. You feel better now?
Islam would function in the way u invision if every muslim in the world reads the koran and sunna.and follows the koran and sunna from his view ,without lessing to preachers imams + having a open mind
No, don't put words into my mouth. I never suggested that we live in a world where every Muslim is going to follow the Qu'ran and Sunnah. When first of all there are differences of interpretation and level of application in those things, as well there should be. The Qu'ran was a Univeral and timeless message that was to reach and inspire all people on an individual and also group basis. The Sunnah is different from the Qu'ran in that I don't believe that it is an alltogether timeless message and that some parts of the Sunnah were directly related to the conditions of the times.
Anyway, to get back to the subject, there are always going to be good and bad people, and different interpretations. I'm not calling for some kind of utopia. You hear me mention the Ottoman Empire that was leading the Ummah up until 1924 as an example of a realistic example of a state run Islamic society that deserved the support of the Ummah.
But Arab nationalists like yourself want to go and say fuck the Ottoman Empire, fuck all the new Arab leaders, and then fuck all the grassroots movements existing within states. So now you've done said fuck everybody. Which only implicates an Arab Muslim like yourself as being inadequete and in need of Britian to run your affairs. Egypt, your country was Britians first bitch in the Muslim world, it was from there that they gained their foothold and spread their influence into the Muslim world.
Well who had the power when Egypt was lost to the English and French 1st, The Ottamons, the egyptians where so brainwashed about the caliphate ,that they just forgot anything about independence ,so when the british came in ,all they had to do was keep the Turkish King name as the leader to give the people the impression that they are ruled by ,Muslims.So Egyptians never lost Egypt to the British ,The Turks did.These Turks who were running the country without even understanding the country language.There were two classes of people ,The Turkish Beys and Pachas and the lower classed Egyptians.
So ya i am saying Fuck all the arab leaders,they just explioting Arab Nationalism ,non of them represent me or any (not one arab) i met in my life ,from my Yemeni ,Saudi,Kuwaiti,Egyptians,Lebs,Syrians,Jordians, and west from egypt.
So i take it wat ur saying is that you are in love with Taliban,ALQEADA jsust beacuse they claim to represent true Islam,otherwise ur not Muslim.
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If that's the way you want to believe then that doesn't say much for you being an Arab and a Muslim. Because Iraqi's are Arab and Muslim acting like the savages you describe. Don't you realize how your implicating yourself?
wow
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Well who had the power when Egypt was lost to the English and French 1st, The Ottamons, the egyptians where so brainwashed about the caliphate ,that they just forgot anything about independence ,so when the british came in ,all they had to do was keep the Turkish King name as the leader to give the people the impression that they are ruled by ,Muslims.So Egyptians never lost Egypt to the British ,The Turks did.These Turks who were running the country without even understanding the country language.There were two classes of people ,The Turkish Beys and Pachas and the lower classed Egyptians.
So ya i am saying Fuck all the arab leaders,they just explioting Arab Nationalism ,non of them represent me or any (not one arab) i met in my life ,from my Yemeni ,Saudi,Kuwaiti,Egyptians,Lebs,Syrians,Jordians, and west from egypt.
So i take it wat ur saying is that you are in love with Taliban,ALQEADA jsust beacuse they claim to represent true Islam,otherwise ur not Muslim.
The British could not have succeeded in Egypt without the help of the Egyptians. The Egyptians had a choice between supporting the Muslims Ottoman's or the Christian British. The British made alot of false problems to them about Independance and they went for it; when in reality they were to become a client state (bitch) of the British Empire.
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there was no caliphate in egypt when the british came,there was the decaying parts of a country run by foriegn slave soldiers brought from europe ,who ended up getting massacred but for an albanian who didn't even understand arabic ,or wasn't born in egypt. wat is there for egyptians to support.then another army comes in with supperior weapons ,how could the egyptians fight back when all the power ws in turkish hand ,and when this power turns up to be dust and a bigger power fills in, how could a nation of peasents getting fucked in the ass fight back.
well british came in did more opression but at least built schools and univ for egyptians to sudy in,these same egyptians led the rest to independence of the british
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there was no caliphate in egypt when the british came,there was the decaying parts of a country run by foriegn slave soldiers brought from europe ,who ended up getting massacred but for an albanian who didn't even understand arabic ,or wasn't born in egypt. wat is there for egyptians to support.then another army comes in with supperior weapons ,how could the egyptians fight back when all the power ws in turkish hand ,and when this power turns up to be dust and a bigger power fills in, how could a nation of peasents getting fucked in the ass fight back.
well british came in did more opression but at least built schools and univ for egyptians to sudy in,these same egyptians led the rest to independence of the british
Yes, there was a Kaifate in Egypt, Egypt had given allegiance to the Ottoman Sultan before the British came in. I do give you a little sympathy in the fact that most of the peasants didn't have much means to defend themselves against Britian imposing it's will, and that a lot of responsibility did lay in the Ottoman's hands to compete with the British. However, the problem is I don't get the sense from any Egyptians that they have much dissapointment about becoming such a great tool for British expansion and destruction of the Muslim world. That was their first and most successful foothold. And many Egyptians were working for the British.
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tell me how many egyptians u met in ur life ,so ur saying that a lot of egyptians were working for the british but non for the turks,simple fact is the turks lost to the british,and not one time in the egypt history were a big majority in support of english stays,people who favoured this were the pashas ,beys ,khawagat who lived in egypt and were called egyptian but spoke broken arabic and were originally italians,jews,armenians,french etc ,and ur taking like egyptians are the traitors of the arab muslim world.can u count how many wars egypt got into just for other neibouring countries.just watch any arabic polictical debate on mermitv.com u would find always egyptians having the least moderate views.
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tell me how many egyptians u met in ur life ,
I've met hundreds of Egyptians since I became Muslim.
And all the rest of your post doesn't indicate any place for me to repond.
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Since the discussion seems to be reaching a conclusion, I just want to say so everyone knows that Kassem is still my brother and I love him, and I ask that he forgives me in case I said anything that offended him; because it may be that he's right and I'm wrong. We can argue but like brothers I still got his back.
Peace.
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do you have my back bryguy?
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same here man