West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: Tanjential on April 06, 2007, 01:45:13 AM
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Two things..
Whenever I respond to the threads about Dre falling off people say I blindly follow Dre in the sense that regardless of the musical nature/quality of the beat and say it's dope just because it's Dre...I have no reason to endorse Dre's music if I don't think it's dope....If I left HIP HOP AS A WHOLE GENRE FOR 5 YEARS(which I did) why in the FUCK would I just say Dre's shit is dope for the sake of doing so? I have no loyalty, I am going to listen to what I want to listen to at a given time because it sounds dope to me.
I like Dre because he is an artist. Most rappers were criminals and are hustlers and not artists so as soon as they get a chance to make money and no longer expend artistic effort they do so because they have no reason not to. Dre was never a gangster, he was all about music from the get-go and that's WAY doper than being a gangster. being a gangster is some shit you do because you couldn't reap the benefits of an education, it gets you killed and jailed and it's truly stupid and alot of cats act like Dre is the worse for not doing that. People here actually diss dre because he was a musician from the get-go and not a gangster but that's exactly why he's a better artist than almost anyone else out there: His fucking priorities are straight. Since he was a kid, he was a DJ...all about music. So while these uneducated ex-cons and lowlifes hustle us with their real gangster past or whatever Dre stays making art.
Furthermore, he's always has used real musicians as opposed to synth as much as possible and that's just the way it should be done on the west coast.
Furthermore for cats acting like I'm a Game groupie, I like Game but off the top of my head DPGC is away higher on my list of not only favorites but how often I listen to cats.
Now you can make all kinds of gay sex comments and the other exhibitions of exceptional maturity this board is oh so well known for or you can actually respond to the ideas I present in the post. There I said it. Now get off my fuckin' nuts. I'd rather be a fan of an artist that is trying to make quality art than a fan of a gangster just due to the fact that they were/are a gangster.
-T
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+1
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+1
props
-T
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Since you brought up this whole "some rappers are gangstas etc." talk if Dre isn't one why does he rap like he is???
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+1 man, but I feel it's a shame that you have to make a post to explain yourself just because of the haters :(
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Since you brought up this whole "some rappers are gangstas etc." talk if Dre isn't one why does he rap like he is???
I'm glad you brought that up. For my money, from 100 Miles N Runnin' on, Dre had an artistic vision of a gangsta manifesto album. Even though Dre was an artist from the get-go, he was still a kid from the hood and he knew he had to make music for the hometown. Someone had to make the bangers for the g's to roll to in CPT and Dre was gonna be just the cat to do it. 100 miles n runnin/livin like hustlers was the testing ground. NIGGAZ4LIFE was 1.0, the chronic was the manifesto.
To understand what I'm saying look at the difference between N.W.A's political shit and The Chronic...N.W.A was politically conscious with an attitude....The Chronic was not conscious at all, just a day in the life of a Compton/Long Beach g and that's the point. It was an artistic decision that worked out so well that every artist after for the next 5 years felt they had to swear by it.
In other words, asking why Dre raps like he's a gangster (which he hasn't since 2001 as far as I can tell) is like asking why Robert DeNiro called himself a gangster in Godfather II.
-T
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nice one Tanj, great read.
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nice post,i always find your posts good to read your a real hip hop cat. anyways i like dre as much as you, and i still like the stuff his knocking out now regardless of the hate. its still better than 95% of the shit thats coming out now.
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nice post,i always find your posts good to read your a real hip hop cat. anyways i like dre as much as you, and i still like the stuff his knocking out now regardless of the hate. its still better than 95% of the shit thats coming out now.
very true
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Totally agree with what Tanj is saying
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Totally agree with what Tanj is saying
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props, great post Tanj
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"things just aint the same for gangsters" - dr. dre
;D
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+1
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realistically speaking i'll check anything with dr dre's name on it for the quality of music he puts out but if you think about it, most beats he has someone else playing the keys, bass, etc.. yes ya'll going to say but it's his vision and he tells them what to play but the amount of beats he releases each year compared to other producers is lacking, meaning if he is going to release 5-10 beats a year, they all should be amazing and ground breaking which has not been happening yet
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Two things..
Whenever I respond to the threads about Dre falling off people say I blindly follow Dre in the sense that regardless of the musical nature/quality of the beat and say it's dope just because it's Dre...I have no reason to endorse Dre's music if I don't think it's dope....If I left HIP HOP AS A WHOLE GENRE FOR 5 YEARS(which I did) why in the FUCK would I just say Dre's shit is dope for the sake of doing so? I have no loyalty, I am going to listen to what I want to listen to at a given time because it sounds dope to me.
I like Dre because he is an artist. Most rappers were criminals and are hustlers and not artists so as soon as they get a chance to make money and no longer expend artistic effort they do so because they have no reason not to. Dre was never a gangster, he was all about music from the get-go and that's WAY doper than being a gangster. being a gangster is some shit you do because you couldn't reap the benefits of an education, it gets you killed and jailed and it's truly stupid and alot of cats act like Dre is the worse for not doing that. People here actually diss dre because he was a musician from the get-go and not a gangster but that's exactly why he's a better artist than almost anyone else out there: His fucking priorities are straight. Since he was a kid, he was a DJ...all about music. So while these uneducated ex-cons and lowlifes hustle us with their real gangster past or whatever Dre stays making art.
Furthermore, he's always has used real musicians as opposed to synth as much as possible and that's just the way it should be done on the west coast.
Furthermore for cats acting like I'm a Game groupie, I like Game but off the top of my head DPGC is away higher on my list of not only favorites but how often I listen to cats.
Now you can make all kinds of gay sex comments and the other exhibitions of exceptional maturity this board is oh so well known for or you can actually respond to the ideas I present in the post. There I said it. Now get off my fuckin' nuts. I'd rather be a fan of an artist that is trying to make quality art than a fan of a gangster just due to the fact that they were/are a gangster.
-T
PREACH! Can I get a witness from the congregation!!! ;D
I had a similiar post about this with the DPG that you probably already read but hey you gotta stick by ya guns in here. DPGC, Dipset, G-Unit, whatever. I got mad respect for the die hard Dipset fans, not groupies. Anybody in this day and age that is a actual fan gets props from me. And does not mind expressing why they are a fan.
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I'm not a big Dre fan anymore, but great topic Tanj, and good back up + 1.
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realistically speaking i'll check anything with dr dre's name on it for the quality of music he puts out but if you think about it, most beats he has someone else playing the keys, bass, etc.. yes ya'll going to say but it's his vision and he tells them what to play but the amount of beats he releases each year compared to other producers is lacking, meaning if he is going to release 5-10 beats a year, they all should be amazing and ground breaking which has not been happening yet
did you listen to The Big Bang? all the beats on their were bangin', "Been Through The Storm" is easily one of my favourite Dre productions recently.
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Been through The Strom was amazing, althouh I though Sha Money XL co-produced that. I'm pretty sure of it. Some of Dre's beats have been hit or miss in the last 2 years imo.
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yeh Sha Money XL coproduced, however you can tell that alot was Dre, the string arrangement for example.
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yeh Sha Money XL coproduced, however you can tell that alot was Dre, the string arrangement for example.
Guess so.
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wow, surprised at the lack of hate ;D +1 tanj
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What would you guys rather see? multiple posts about Dr. Dre or Dipset? i think i might know the answer to that one
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^^^^ yeah, neither.
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^ i mean if you absolutely had no other choices
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Well then of course Dre.
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props to all in thread.
that's cool that some people don't dig the sound he does now, I'm just tired of
a)people accusing me of saying everything dre does is dope just cause it's dre
b)people acting like dre's whack cause he's not a gangster
Now as far as the other musician stuff, Dre has done that since the days of N.W.A...he's always used musicians, to me, it's more creative than using pre-programmed synths, pre looped loops, pre programmed voices but whatever. yeah scott storch plays the keys, but do any of us know how often dre comes up with the riff and has scott puppet it so dre can go program the drums or add the bassline or whatever? you guys know what i mean.
also, dre's been taking piano lessons for a few years now, as a music fan and someone who also plays piano, Piano is the musical dictionary. songwriters often come up with the music on piano and proceed to have their players play it. for all we know, dre composes alot of the stuff on piano and has Elizondo/storch etc. play the shit he comes with you know?
There're people who say 'dre has other people doing his shit for him now " all I'm saying is he's always had musicians.
Furthermore, it takes alot to cohesify a group of instrumentalists. I've played with bands, jammed with countless musicians and it's HARD to coordinate that shit. Yeah, my bassist can be playing a fat riff, but if EVERY OTHER ASPECT of that beat isn't gelling with the bassline then it's over, you dig? Scott storch may be in one room laying something sick on the piano but elizondo's sick bass riff may not go with at all. it's up to Dre to fix that discrepancy, you know? That takes skill, and ears. dre himself has admitted, his greatest talent is his ears and that he knows what he likes to hear. he's never claimed otherwise/that he's a sick musician.
as far as him falling off...
I can see how beats like 'trouble', 'get low', 'hustlers' can be seen as weak due to their lack of melody, awkward-ness and they are some of my least favorite recent Dre beats but due to their experimental nature they grow on me. Plus the drums to hustlers are the same as xxplosive's drums which is really cool to me.
otherwise...i don't see what you guys are complaining about, the rest of his stuff has pianos, guitars, bass guitars, classic dre drums, and cool melodies. if you don't like the melody, it's taste. alot of people don't like boss' life. I think the song is instrumentated and produced brilliantly but I could have gone for a different and better melody, even so, the melody is dope to me but I could have seen it being doper.it grew on me though, i really love the song now. dig all the layers and see if you don't like it some more, the chords he hits at times are just so leanable. the really simple guitar riff's lowest notes add a lot to it.
furthermore, i didn't know dre was obligated to change the game with the several beats he releases a year. i expect him to change the game with his solo records/records that are completely produced by him but not his freelance beats.
stuff like Imagine and Lost Ones i think throws people off with its simplicity, but any jazz fan will tell you the chords on these beats are real cool. not to mention the hitting as drums, I love the basic melodies too. and the simplicity is great to me. less is more and when you become a better artist you realize it's more important to make a bomb cake then to add all kinds of frostings to it.
furthermore, straight to the bank and 30 something (also great jazzy chords it rests on) are proof that he still does g funk so what's not to love?
also to the cat saying all his beats should be groundbreaking/amazing and it hasn't happened yet...I respect your opinion, but I to the best of my objective assessment abilities DO feel that his beats in recent times are up to his standards. To me the standard of dre beats is this:
-likable melodies, catchy, addictiveness, headnodding and being provoked at least ONCE per track to say 'damn this shit's hittin'
-groundbreaking? Synth strings are THE corniest sound in the history of music and with 'in da club', 'hustlers', 'trouble', and 'get low' dre is working on fusing such strings with piano/guitar and hard drums to update OLD ass hip hop that had no bass guitars (LL, Run DMC, etc.) kind of using sound effects and the strings as replacements for scratches if that makes sense as well as maing corny strings sound dope. I have a feeling he will have this technique/stye down by detox. Those beats are among my least favorite of his new shit, but they grow on me all the time. I suspect that's why he's working with Mike Elizondo less, he is seeing what he can do as far as non-bass guitar centric music.
word. i appreciate that you guys, but I still felt the need to explicate.
-T
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Tanj, it ain't really you, I think alot of people just see the Dre name and assume that it is the best produced record in the world. Just because it's Dre people do this.
Noone can deny his body of work, but what I'm saying is that just having a Dre produced song on your album is not gonna get me excited anymore. Props for backing up your opinion. Youll be out of the - by tonight lol.
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T, you don't have to explain yaself homie. You already shown the knowledge of the music, you just took a little break and are catching up. And yeah like reefer said, you will be having good karma by the weekend ;D
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Totally agree with what Tanj is saying
Dre is dope, period 8)
props to Tanj
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Totally agree with what Tanj is saying
Dre is dope, period 8)
props to Tanj
props
-T
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+1, I haven't been feeling Dre's recent beats but I am not judging till I hear Detox
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+1, I haven't been feeling Dre's recent beats but I am not judging till I hear Detox
props. I see that, I like his Hawaii situation though, it's a cool system. it allows him to fuck with people he probably otherwise would not have.
-T
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interesting thread. props to anyone in this bitch with good arguments. its really great to read all these opinion, im gonna listen to some recent dre beats now, see if they will grow on me. i def hope so, cause apart from 2 snoop tracks and the stat quo song im not really impressed (maybe that young buck and latoiya williams one) 8)
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CHUUCH!!!!!! 8)
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CHUUCH!!!!!! 8)
props
-T
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well you put a lot of shit into perspective for me just now, but that post was written with hell of passion.
if I could use karma I would. until then you get the spiritual pat on the back. ;D
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ill give T +1 for ya, how about that ;)
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props to all on page
-T
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tanj on the positive side of karma... wtf!!!
nice one mate
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tanj on the positive side of karma... wtf!!!
nice one mate
loil, yeah that was a shock, pretty sure it was like -18 yday.
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props to all on page
-T
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i think y'all gotta wait till dre puts another big club track out to judge where he's at on the production right now. all the beats he's been putting out have been on a more chilled out vibe and most people seem to be feeling the stuff with more energy than that. the last big single from dre was the outta control rmx and imo that beat bangs much harder than anything else we've been hearing recently, that should be the kinda stuff we'll be hearing in the future 8)
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i got two points to add to this discussion:
1) it doesn't matter if Dre's beats have been dope lately or not he's got enough credits under his belt to the point where you can't deny his greatness.
2) who cares if Dre really was a gangster or not? i've said it before and ill say it again...I'D RATHER LISTEN TO A FAKE RAPPER WHO ENTERTAINS ME THAN A REAL RAPPER WHO SUCKS.
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I'D RATHER LISTEN TO A FAKE RAPPER WHO ENTERTAINS ME THAN A REAL RAPPER WHO SUCKS.
real talk, used to think otherwise, till i got smarter, props to tanji and everyone else who helped me see the light. ;)
props to all on page
-T
same thang 8)
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Yeah, it must just be a matter of taste.
Me personally, I'm an 87 - 97 Dr. Dre fan... but that's just me.
I'm only digging a few he did after 2001, but I'm not gonna sit here and say that Dre doesn't do anything, he's a thief, this and that.
LOL I remember in 1998, me and a pal were arguing. He said, "Lokk how drastic dre's sound changed once he left NWA? That's cuz he was stealing from Yella, Daz, Assasin, etc..."
Has anyone hear ever heard Yellas "One Mo Nigga Ta Go?" It was CLEAR Dre was the mastermind behind the music in NWA, One More Nigga is one of the worst albums I've ever got...
Maybe I'm just stuck in the past, but I enjoy my early NWA, JJ Fad, Above The Law, DOC all that early Dre produced stuff. Jimmy Z's "Who'z Leroy" has been my jam of late. Even the Aftermath compilation is tight in retrospect.
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every few years or so it comes up that Dre has fallen off, I remember back in '98 or so this came up then he hit them with those beats on SSLP and NLTD and then the 2001 album and all of a sudden he was back, just a couple of years ago he hit them with the Outta Control remix which was :o, can't think of a much better beat than that
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i think the problem is alot is expected from Dr Dre!!
When you hear Dr Dre name ..you expectation goes sky high!!
Sometimes as human it's kinda hard to meet everybody expectations..
It's hard to really experiment in Music when you on the level of Dre..cuz alot of folks really expect and demand that you stick to a generic type of style or sound..which is kinda ironic cuz if you, folks will turn around and say that his stuff is repetitive...it's just crazy!!
Am a big fan of Dre..Just like XL Middleton said..Dre has alot of beats under his belt..to award that he is indeed a music genius
Right now am just waiting to see that his musical horizon will be on Detox..will it be laid back Jazz that he seems to be dropping??
Or hard hitting synths sounds that he did in the past??
who knows...i guess that adds to the suspense!!
Stay tuned Folks-it's Gon be A Ride!!
Blu!