West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Halu Sination on May 03, 2007, 02:30:03 AM
-
this guys pretty much on point. nothin optimistic, nothin pessimistic, just straight forward with the real shit
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2007/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&page=LakersFuture
When his season ended in the early hours of Thursday morning, Kobe Bryant squeezed off a couple more shots.
At his own team.
Wearing a white blazer and a look of exasperation, Bryant plopped down behind an NBA-TV microphone and tersely spelled out what he hopes to see from his Los Angeles Lakers bosses between now and October.
"Do something," Bryant told reporters in Phoenix, "and do it now."
Something significant on the trade front, in other words, with the Lakers lacking the salary-cap flexibility to chase a marquee free agent like Chauncey Billups.
"Especially for me, it's beyond frustration, three years and still being at ground zero," Bryant continued. "So this summer's a big summer."
It'll be a biggie whether you're sympathetic to Bryant's plight or not, because few teams in the league are likely to be as active this offseason as the Lakers.
After they exited the playoffs in five games this time, only occasionally troubling a Phoenix team it took to seven games in the 2006 playoffs, NBA front-office sources say L.A. is expected to make every one of its players available -- except Bryant -- in an attempt to craft a mix that can return the franchise to the Western Conference elite for the first time since Shaquille O'Neal's departure in 2004.
Here's your first look at what that means for a variety of Lakers:
KOBE BRYANT
With Lakerland clearly in need of a hopeful sign or two after this five-game exit in Round 1 and a measly two wins over playoff teams after February, this is the best double-fisted tonic we can offer:
1. During our recent chat with Kobe during this series, he stressed that, yes, he wants to retire a Laker.
2. During that chat, Kobe also disputed the notion that the Lakers will only see the 28-year-old's best for a few more years.
"I think I can play at this level for another six, seven years," Bryant said. "I still have one more bullet to fire."
Translation: Bryant ranks as the game's greatest singular talent while eating pretty much anything he wants. By changing his diet when necessary, Kobe figures he can extend his longevity as an All-Star.
So ...
If Bryant is right, Laker Lovers needn't worry that Kobe's window for winning a championship without Shaquille O'Neal is down to two or three more playoff runs.
The concern, if you want to fret, is Bryant's patience. He will be forever blamed for running Shaq off, even though Lakers owner Jerry Buss wanted to trade Shaq more than Kobe and had the biggest say in it, but arguing about that now only distracts from the pressing issue: How much longer can Bryant take mediocrity before he starts to reconsider those plans about retiring in purple and gold?
With four more years left on his contract after this season at a tidy $88.6 million, Bryant does possess the option to reenter the free-agent market two years from now in the summer of 2009. And surely you heard Bryant's proclamation last week that "we definitely have to get that elite level and get to that elite level, like, now."
Interpretation: He's more than ready for some big-name help and loves the idea of trading anyone necessary to bring in his buddy Jermaine O'Neal, who's said to be just as high on the idea.
Maybe he doesn't trust his teammates as much as he should sometimes, but how far would this group go, realistically, if Kobe trusted them without reservation? Even when healthy -- even had they been able to keep building on that 23-11 start without a flurry of injuries -- these Lakers aren't close to championship material.
That's why the whole NBA expects the Lakers to be trade aggressors now to reenergize their downcast franchise player after passing on a trade for Jason Kidd at the February deadline and unraveling from there.
PHIL JACKSON
It's true: Jackson wants to know that he'll have more to work with roster-wise before committing to a contract extension. But the safe bet, according to team insiders, remains that the Zenmeister will consent to tack on at least one more season to next season, which is when he'll complete the original three-year commitment he made upon returning to the club.
Having spent significant time with the Lakers during the playoffs, I can tell you that Jackson doesn't come across as a tortured soul these days. Even though L.A. didn't come close to winning its first playoff series since 2004, or narrowing the huge gap between the team's current standing and winning a 10th championship ring, Jackson understands what he's been working with, talent-wise, for the past two seasons.
Although he's actually absorbed some rare media criticism recently for his inability to halt L.A.'s 12-16 fade after the All-Star break, let's be clear here: Jackson remains the Lakers' only other All-Star. He and Bryant, furthermore, are bonded in the quest to win at least more title together.
So he wants to stick around, provided that the following issues are addressed.
A. Jackson has always been happier coaching veterans and would surely prefer more seasoned role players around Bryant.
B. But health is also a factor. The 61-year-old needs to have his other hip replaced after undergoing replacement surgery on his right hip during training camp. He's expected to complete the second operation shortly after the season ends, to be ready for his Hall of Fame induction in September, but the physical toll can't be discounted.
LAMAR ODOM
If there's been a braver player in the NBA this season, I'd love to hear about him. Because I don't see one.
After long-term knee and shoulder injuries -- which followed the unspeakable loss of his six-month-old son over the summer -- Odom just keeps playing on, trying as hard as he can to be Kobe's Scottie Pippen.
He's still not there, agreed, but I don't think he ever had a chance this season. Not after a bad knee sprain in December and definitely not after the shoulder tear he suffered in March, which should have sent him to surgery if Odom hadn't vowed to delay the operation until after the season.
There was also a hyperextended elbow Odom picked up during the Phoenix series, as if the man with the NBA's heaviest heart hadn't suffered enough.
(An aside: The first thing that catches your eye when you walk into the Lakers' locker room is a supersized white T-shirt hanging in Odom's locker, sporting the smiling likeness of his late son Jayden. Basketball might be his sanctuary, but Odom was intent on keeping Jayden's spirit close by even at work.)
Yet in spite of all of his resilience, capped by a 33-point sign-off in Wednesday night's Game 5 elimination, Odom is the first to concede that he's the most likely Laker to move if L.A. has any shot at pairing Jermaine O'Neal or its other fantasy target -- Minnesota's Kevin Garnett -- with Kobe.
There are a couple other Lakers listed below who can enhance a trade package. But with only two seasons left on his contract at $27.4 million, as well as the frontcourt versatility that teams crave in the modern game, Odom is the Lakers' most saleable asset ... since they're not about to move Bryant.
"I love it here," Odom told Bill Plaschke of the Los Angeles Times and ESPN's "Around The Horn." "I hope I have done enough to prove that I belong here the rest of my career. But as a team, sometimes you get stuck between a rock and a hard place. We're expected to win, and we haven't won, and they're going to do everything they can to get back to winning."
ANDREW BYNUM
The 19-year-old was an untouchable in February trade talks, preventing the Lakers from acquiring Kidd from New Jersey. I agreed with the Lakers' logic, too, figuring that a 7-footer this mobile and promising can't be surrendered for an expensive, thirtysomething guard whose arrival wouldn't automatically put L.A. in the West's elite alongside Dallas, Phoenix and San Antonio.
However ...
I see it differently now, for at least three reasons.
1. Kidd is an assassin like Kobe. A playoff-tested winner. The Lakers would probably be better with Kidd than skeptics think.
2. The Lakers, by all accounts, could have excluded Odom from a Kidd deal -- as well as an earlier swap that Sacramento backed out of involving Mike Bibby -- as long as they included Bynum. Would you rather start over with a duo of, say, Kobe and Jermaine ... or the trio of Kobe, Kidd and Odom?
3. Kidd, like Odom, is under contract for only two more seasons, so gambling on his ability to stay healthy at 34 and adapt to Jackson's triangle offense is not the sort of risk that would cripple L.A. cap-wise for ages.
Oh, yeah. There's a bigger reason than any of those three: Bryant and Jackson don't appear to be huge Bynum fans. Neither seems terribly excited about waiting for Bynum to develop.
It's a mood Jackson summed up rather neatly when he was asked about an hour before Game 1 if he was "interested" to see what kind of interior effect Bynum could have against the size-challenged Suns.
"Not really," Jackson quipped.
So if you're committed to Kobe and Phil, it makes sense to pursue their kind of players, unless you're certain Bynum is a franchise center in waiting.
The problem? Jerry Buss' son Jim was a driving force behind the drafting of Bynum with the No. 10 pick in the 2005 draft and badly wants to keep his pet project off-limits. If Jackson were to refuse an extension -- or even leave the organization before next season in a worst-case scenario -- this matter figures to be the biggest wedge.
EVERYONE ELSE
The Smush Parker Experience, you can safely assume, is over. The Lakers need a reliable ballhandler more than anything else and Parker, who was never really starter material, has been clashing with Jackson for weeks, ensuring his exit.
The other lightning rod from Kobe's supporting cast -- Kwame Brown -- is also likely to move on, despite the surprising chants of "Kwa-me, Kwa-me" heard at Staples Center during both of L.A.'s home games against the Suns.
Trading for Brown actually did make some sense at the time because the Lakers badly needed size. Two seasons later, though, Brown remains an injury-prone underachiever ... while Caron Butler has blossomed into an All-Star forward in the East and Washington's foremost tough guy. Worse yet, with teams going smaller and smaller in today's NBA, L.A. probably could have gotten away with playing Kobe, Odom and Butler as a trio more than it might have a few years back.
But it's not Butler's success that makes Kwame's departure inevitable. It's his salary: Brown has only next season left on his contract at $9 million. Any team that deals with the Lakers on a major trade will want that expiring contract.
The Lakers have four free agents besides Parker: Aaron McKie, Chris Mihm, Shammond Williams and Luke Walton. Retaining Walton is the only must, but upgrading the overall talent is the bigger priority, so Walton -- a fine role player who also played hurt like Odom -- isn't put in a position where he has to be L.A.'s third-best player.
Which is what Walton was in what, according to Kobe, was Year 3 at Ground Zero.
-
I would kill everyone on this forum if we could get Gasol and/or Billups.
-
I would kill everyone on this forum if we could get Gasol and/or Billups.
i hear that.
-
Odom & Brown & a pick would be a package sufficient enough to get a great goner.
-
trade everyone they can to get Jermaine O'Neal and Jason Kidd
play with 3 on the court if they have to
-
Kidd would have been a great addition.. this organization put our future success on the shoulders of a 19 year old kid who's mentally weak and I have doubts he'll really be something... fact is Mitch Kupchack is a very average GM, Jim is on Bynum dickrider.. to be honest this summer can be more dissapointing than the 06-07 season
-
Andrew Bybum is Jim's pet project. Management will not get KG without moving him.
-
If we can move Bynum, but keep Odom, and still get a KG or J.O'Neal, then I would be extremely happy. I love Odom, I personally don't want to part with him.
-
The superstars mentioned always in trade talks with LA all want Bynum. It is that 2nd or 3rd player needed to sweeten the deal. And it almost always starts and ends with Odom. You would just hope in giving up 2 or more players you have enough pieces left to build around Kobe and whoever they get to compliment him. And if you are talking about keeping Odom, you are going to have to add alot with Bynum to make the trade look good enough to do and for the other teams to feel they are getting they money's worth. I am thinking it will be Jermaine O'Neal.
-
If we can move Bynum, but keep Odom, and still get a KG or J.O'Neal, then I would be extremely happy. I love Odom, I personally don't want to part with him.
I agree, I rather get rid of Bynum than Odom.
-
^^^^ I agree.. plus Kobe and Phil aren't Bynum fans.. Lamar would be a great 3rd option and I'm sure he'll be better coz the pressure won't be on his shoulders.. I still think Kidd-KB-Lamar would have been great..
-
You guys need to stop thinking that every GM in the league is a Laker-Fan. Seriously. Bynum for a superstar is literally insane.
-
You guys need to stop thinking that every GM in the league is a Laker-Fan. Seriously. Bynum for a superstar is literally insane.
Yeah outside of adding Odom with Bynum, I just don't see alot of teams doing that trade for a superstar in return.
-
^^^ naw Bynum plus Kwame (who will be free agent after next season ) plus Vlad or any crap...
-
^^^ naw Bynum plus Kwame (who will be free agent after next season ) plus Vlad or any crap...
If the Pacers do that, they are looking at a 25 win season and you know it.
-
^^^ naw Bynum plus Kwame (who will be free agent after next season ) plus Vlad or any crap...
I still don't think a team like Indiana is pulling the trigger on that trade. Although that does give them a new starting frontcourt.
-
You guys need to stop thinking that every GM in the league is a Laker-Fan. Seriously. Bynum for a superstar is literally insane.
Then you don't know Bynum's trade value...An unhappy superstar like Jermaine O'Neal, Jason Kidd, Pau Gasol etc. will easily be given up for what would have been a number 1 overall selection last season AKA Andrew Bynum...Bynum's potential is pretty much unlimited- look at the progress he's made from 18 to 19... If Pacers or Grizzlies wouldn't accept a trade of Bynum+Kwame+Draft Pick for Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol, they'd be insane...I have a feeling we're gunna part with either Odom or Bynum this off-season...It sucks, but hopefully we get something worth it in return. I HIGHLY doubt they'd both get traded though...I'd prefer to keep both and just target a valuable point guard with the MLE...Maybe trade some roll players for a veteran big (Kwame, Vlad, Cook, Smush)...That's my preference though...PeACe
-
does anyone have a complete list of upcoming free agents this summer?
-
does anyone have a complete list of upcoming free agents this summer?
check www.hoopshype.com (http://www.hoopshype.com)...
-
You guys need to stop thinking that every GM in the league is a Laker-Fan. Seriously. Bynum for a superstar is literally insane.
Then you don't know Bynum's trade value...An unhappy superstar like Jermaine O'Neal, Jason Kidd, Pau Gasol etc. will easily be given up for what would have been a number 1 overall selection last season AKA Andrew Bynum...Bynum's potential is pretty much unlimited- look at the progress he's made from 18 to 19... If Pacers or Grizzlies wouldn't accept a trade of Bynum+Kwame+Draft Pick for Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol, they'd be insane...I have a feeling we're gunna part with either Odom or Bynum this off-season...It sucks, but hopefully we get something worth it in return. I HIGHLY doubt they'd both get traded though...I'd prefer to keep both and just target a valuable point guard with the MLE...Maybe trade some roll players for a veteran big (Kwame, Vlad, Cook, Smush)...That's my preference though...PeACe
Bynum is a huge gamble. He wouldn't be the first nigga to never get close to his proclaimed potential.
Also, he's far away from a player you can truly rely on every night, lol. He's still a young, unexperienced fuck with an attitude.
-
You guys need to stop thinking that every GM in the league is a Laker-Fan. Seriously. Bynum for a superstar is literally insane.
Then you don't know Bynum's trade value...An unhappy superstar like Jermaine O'Neal, Jason Kidd, Pau Gasol etc. will easily be given up for what would have been a number 1 overall selection last season AKA Andrew Bynum...Bynum's potential is pretty much unlimited- look at the progress he's made from 18 to 19... If Pacers or Grizzlies wouldn't accept a trade of Bynum+Kwame+Draft Pick for Jermaine O'Neal or Pau Gasol, they'd be insane...I have a feeling we're gunna part with either Odom or Bynum this off-season...It sucks, but hopefully we get something worth it in return. I HIGHLY doubt they'd both get traded though...I'd prefer to keep both and just target a valuable point guard with the MLE...Maybe trade some roll players for a veteran big (Kwame, Vlad, Cook, Smush)...That's my preference though...PeACe
Bynum is a huge gamble. He wouldn't be the first nigga to never get close to his proclaimed potential.
Also, he's far away from a player you can truly rely on every night, lol. He's still a young, unexperienced fuck with an attitude.
An attitude? LOL...Come on now. That's reaching. Bynum is not a good, but a GREAT prospect. Anytime you can get a great prospect for an unhappy/aging superstar, you pull the trigger. If Bynum reaches even half his potential, the teams who passed up will HIGHLY regret it. This is how the NBA works...It'd be the same with a player like Andrea Bargnani or Lamarcus Aldridge...PeACe
-
Funny thing about this is...our 04-05 roster (yes the one that failed to make the playoffs) was more talented than this team. Imagine if we would've got Phil Jackson back and still had Kobe, Odom, Butler, Walton, D.George, Kareem Rush, Chucky Atkins, and a healthy Chris Mihm :-[ in addition to Farmar, Bynum, and Smush...
Chris Mihm / Andrew Bynum
Lamar Odom / Brian Cook / Ronny Turiaf
Caron Butler / Luke Walton / Devean George
Kobe Bryant / Kareem Rush / Sasha Vujacic
Chucky Atkins / Smush Parker / Jordan Farmar
The Lakers would've gone 73-9
It's my dream so no one ruin it!
-
i agree with the rest of yall. much as i love bynum, its clear that the team works around phil jackson and kobe. bynum's trade value is still high, i think now would be the time to move him for the help kobe so desperately seeks (gasol, JO, kidd, etc.).
odom proved in the last couple games how badly he wants to stay in la. the mutha fucka has 4 or 5 injuries and was still giving 150% playing like a man on a mission, which is more than i could say for the rest of the squad. unless we can get kevin garnett in a deal for odom, he is not worth giving up. too much of our offense has adjusted around him, some of the youngsters look absolutely lost wen hes not there helpin them out.
the lakers also need to get jerry west back. altho for now, at the age of 69, its unlikely that west is really gonna go out of his way to rush back home in la.
-
damn i can see a trade of Bynum + Kwame for JO or KG.
-
damn i can see a trade of Bynum + Kwame for JO or KG.
Yeah, throw Vlad and a draft pick to sweeten the deal, and it could work. Although I doubt any trade happening without Odom. :-\
-
damn i can see a trade of Bynum + Kwame for JO or KG.
itll be really hard to do that for kg, but i think we could get jo with that.
-
That reminds me, with everyone weighing in on the "Where are the Lakers going from here?" debate, it has to be mentioned that their overall game plan never, ever, EVER made sense. Why waste two years of Kobe's prime by trying to develop young players like Andrew Bynum and Kwame Brown over targeting gamers (dealing Caron Butler never made sense) and using expiring contracts to acquire playoff-proven guys (for instance, they could have had Kidd if they included Bynum in the deal). How could they allow all those contracts (over $10 million worth of expiring deals) to simply expire without taking a flier on someone like Stephen Jackson? And why aren't Lakers fans more furious that their team willingly threw away Kobe's prime like this? I don't get it.
- Bill Simmons
-
^^^I agree w/ that. Kobe is the consensus best bball player on the planet. With the right cast you're in at LEAST the conference championship every year. Even if you got some older cats in there, and it may only be viable for 2-3 years, who gives a fuck? Bring in the talent to win - if it doesn't shake out destroy and rebuild around him again.
You don't have the best player on the planet sitting in the wings while you're trying to develop 18-19 year olds. It just doesn't make sense.
-
^^^I agree w/ that. Kobe is the consensus best bball player on the planet. With the right cast you're in at LEAST the conference championship every year. Even if you got some older cats in there, and it may only be viable for 2-3 years, who gives a fuck? Bring in the talent to win - if it doesn't shake out destroy and rebuild around him again.
You don't have the best player on the planet sitting in the wings while you're trying to develop 18-19 year olds. It just doesn't make sense.
WERD!!!!
-
That reminds me, with everyone weighing in on the "Where are the Lakers going from here?" debate, it has to be mentioned that their overall game plan never, ever, EVER made sense. Why waste two years of Kobe's prime by trying to develop young players like Andrew Bynum and Kwame Brown over targeting gamers (dealing Caron Butler never made sense) and using expiring contracts to acquire playoff-proven guys (for instance, they could have had Kidd if they included Bynum in the deal). How could they allow all those contracts (over $10 million worth of expiring deals) to simply expire without taking a flier on someone like Stephen Jackson? And why aren't Lakers fans more furious that their team willingly threw away Kobe's prime like this? I don't get it.
- Bill Simmons
Threw away Kobe's prime? Bill Simmons needs help, Kobe is still 28. And LMAO@"dealing Caron Butler never made sense". I'm sure he really knows what he's talking about there. Lakers were stuck with no low-post presence, we'd be 3 years out of the playoffs had we never dealt for Kwame... ::)
-
Caron Butler MADE sense, we were jacking up 3s like crazy and hadn't no interior presence.. Kwame didn't live up to the expectations though on the offensive side.. but I won't repeat the same old shit 100 times.. Jrome post summed it up well
-
The guy really doesn't know what he's talking about. Caron Butler was about to become a free agent, and with Kobe and Lamar already under contract, it was almost impossible for us to re-sign him anyway. So we had to trade him. To say that our problem is that we traded Caron is straight ignorant. You can disagree with the fact we traded him for Kwame (i did), but that's it. We had to trade him (like we had to trade Shaq, in that situation), period. Mitch probably thought Lamar was the 2nd star Kobe need to win the title: now we can probably say (i like Lamar and shit, but let's face it) that he's more like a perfect 3rd star for a team, not a co-star good enought to win a title. So what we really should do is to find a co-star. If we can do it without trading Odom fine. If we can't let's trade him. But we don't have to trade Bynum. He's our project, we should keep him: he's still 19, damn. You don't trade a young promising prospect like him unless it's for a co-star (i mean unless you can keep Kobe & Lamar and get another superstar type of player).
-
^^^^ y'all expected way too much from Bynum.. how many bigs were promising ? a lot, how many bigs succeeded in being dominant ? a very few.. we ain't got time to waste on him.. he has the skills but not the right mentality imo.. anyways if our plan is to wait for him to develop to be in position to win a championship, Kobe will be gone til a long time.. as good as he can be, you have to be insane to choose him over KB24.. I just don't get the point of this whole situation, I'm tired of hearing this rebuilding shit.. we'll have plenty of times thinking about it when Kobe retires in 6-7 years, now it's about DAMN time to be a SERIOUS contender.. if this fuckin organization doesn't understand that, our franchise is in BIG trouble..
-
That reminds me, with everyone weighing in on the "Where are the Lakers going from here?" debate, it has to be mentioned that their overall game plan never, ever, EVER made sense. Why waste two years of Kobe's prime by trying to develop young players like Andrew Bynum and Kwame Brown over targeting gamers (dealing Caron Butler never made sense) and using expiring contracts to acquire playoff-proven guys (for instance, they could have had Kidd if they included Bynum in the deal). How could they allow all those contracts (over $10 million worth of expiring deals) to simply expire without taking a flier on someone like Stephen Jackson? And why aren't Lakers fans more furious that their team willingly threw away Kobe's prime like this? I don't get it.
- Bill Simmons
Threw away Kobe's prime? Bill Simmons needs help, Kobe is still 28. And LMAO@"dealing Caron Butler never made sense". I'm sure he really knows what he's talking about there. Lakers were stuck with no low-post presence, we'd be 3 years out of the playoffs had we never dealt for Kwame... ::)
Lol you just refuse to be real if it means saying anything not worshiping the Lakers.
The Lakers GAVE away Butler (a future All-Star who was oozing with potential) for Kwame Brown (arguably the biggest bust ever). We had Mihm, we ended up drafting Bynum/Turiaf, keeping Butler was the smart thing to do.
-
^^^^ y'all expected way too much from Bynum..
Me? Not really, no. Let me explain it, homie. I didn't even know him when we drafted him so high, so i couldn't expect a thing from him. The "problem" is that the Lakers Organization chosed to select with the #10 a 17 years old center we knew wasn't ready for the NBA and who probably had to be sent to the d-league for 2-3 years. We've made a long-term project with him, and we knew when we selected him that he had to be at least 23-24 years old (so 4-5 more years from now) to start to play like he could. So to trade him now that he's 19 years old is just stupid. I'm not saying he's a superstar or that i'm sure he'll be an all-star player, but we have a project on him, we're spending big time, we spent a #10 draft pick on him, and we're having Kareem coaching him. He's in the perfect situation. All he need is time to develope into a good player. I think we could keep him, man. For the reason the Organization saw in him great potential and they potentially saw an all-star center. The only way i could see us trading him is to get a superstar in return. Somebody ready now, but already an all-star material. Example: KG, JO, Kidd. But without adding Odom in the mix. If we trade Bynum and a bunch of other guys (ex. Brown+Mihm+others..) for one of those superstars i'll accept it. But if we trade Odom AND Bynum to get one of those then no, i'm not down no more. That's how i feel about it. We should trade him only if we could get a co-star in return to play with Kobe AND Lamar. So that we can really try to win the title.
-
That reminds me, with everyone weighing in on the "Where are the Lakers going from here?" debate, it has to be mentioned that their overall game plan never, ever, EVER made sense. Why waste two years of Kobe's prime by trying to develop young players like Andrew Bynum and Kwame Brown over targeting gamers (dealing Caron Butler never made sense) and using expiring contracts to acquire playoff-proven guys (for instance, they could have had Kidd if they included Bynum in the deal). How could they allow all those contracts (over $10 million worth of expiring deals) to simply expire without taking a flier on someone like Stephen Jackson? And why aren't Lakers fans more furious that their team willingly threw away Kobe's prime like this? I don't get it.
- Bill Simmons
Threw away Kobe's prime? Bill Simmons needs help, Kobe is still 28. And LMAO@"dealing Caron Butler never made sense". I'm sure he really knows what he's talking about there. Lakers were stuck with no low-post presence, we'd be 3 years out of the playoffs had we never dealt for Kwame... ::)
Lol you just refuse to be real if it means saying anything not worshiping the Lakers.
The Lakers GAVE away Butler (a future All-Star who was oozing with potential) for Kwame Brown (arguably the biggest bust ever). We had Mihm, we ended up drafting Bynum/Turiaf, keeping Butler was the smart thing to do.
we were fuckin stacked at the small forward position. butler was expendable, his style of offense wouldnt even have matched the triangle anways
i think we should've traded caron for MORE than wut we actually got, but at least kwame provides interior defense that bynum severely lacks. mihm is injured and wont even get re-signed this season, so i wont even talk about him.
-
The guy really doesn't know what he's talking about. Caron Butler was about to become a free agent, and with Kobe and Lamar already under contract, it was almost impossible for us to re-sign him anyway. So we had to trade him. To say that our problem is that we traded Caron is straight ignorant. You can disagree with the fact we traded him for Kwame (i did), but that's it. We had to trade him (like we had to trade Shaq, in that situation), period. Mitch probably thought Lamar was the 2nd star Kobe need to win the title: now we can probably say (i like Lamar and shit, but let's face it) that he's more like a perfect 3rd star for a team, not a co-star good enought to win a title. So what we really should do is to find a co-star. If we can do it without trading Odom fine. If we can't let's trade him. But we don't have to trade Bynum. He's our project, we should keep him: he's still 19, damn. You don't trade a young promising prospect like him unless it's for a co-star (i mean unless you can keep Kobe & Lamar and get another superstar type of player).
We don't need a better co-star, we need an improved SUPPORTING CAST.
-
^^^^ y'all expected way too much from Bynum.. how many bigs were promising ? a lot, how many bigs succeeded in being dominant ? a very few.. we ain't got time to waste on him.. he has the skills but not the right mentality imo.. anyways if our plan is to wait for him to develop to be in position to win a championship, Kobe will be gone til a long time.. as good as he can be, you have to be insane to choose him over KB24.. I just don't get the point of this whole situation, I'm tired of hearing this rebuilding shit.. we'll have plenty of times thinking about it when Kobe retires in 6-7 years, now it's about DAMN time to be a SERIOUS contender.. if this fuckin organization doesn't understand that, our franchise is in BIG trouble..
I don't think we expect too much out of Bynum...He has amazing hands, a soft touch, great footwork, length, agility, even a nice shot...He has all the tools to being a dominant center in 2-3 years, which is NOT when Kobe's retiring. In fact, that's when Kobe will really hit his prime...So calm down and have patience. Especially when The Captain tells us so...
-
That reminds me, with everyone weighing in on the "Where are the Lakers going from here?" debate, it has to be mentioned that their overall game plan never, ever, EVER made sense. Why waste two years of Kobe's prime by trying to develop young players like Andrew Bynum and Kwame Brown over targeting gamers (dealing Caron Butler never made sense) and using expiring contracts to acquire playoff-proven guys (for instance, they could have had Kidd if they included Bynum in the deal). How could they allow all those contracts (over $10 million worth of expiring deals) to simply expire without taking a flier on someone like Stephen Jackson? And why aren't Lakers fans more furious that their team willingly threw away Kobe's prime like this? I don't get it.
- Bill Simmons
Threw away Kobe's prime? Bill Simmons needs help, Kobe is still 28. And LMAO@"dealing Caron Butler never made sense". I'm sure he really knows what he's talking about there. Lakers were stuck with no low-post presence, we'd be 3 years out of the playoffs had we never dealt for Kwame... ::)
Lol you just refuse to be real if it means saying anything not worshiping the Lakers.
The Lakers GAVE away Butler (a future All-Star who was oozing with potential) for Kwame Brown (arguably the biggest bust ever). We had Mihm, we ended up drafting Bynum/Turiaf, keeping Butler was the smart thing to do.
YEA! Keeping Butler (who was about to sign with another team) woulda REALLY been the smart thing to do! You know, huh? LOL. Caron Butler did NOTHING for us. He's a perimeter player to begin with and doesn't fill ANY of our needs. Lamar Odom would be an all-star in the east too, what's your point? Kwame is what got us into the playoffs these past 2 years. He's been our starting center and was our main reason for any success we had in that great stretch at the end of 2006. Without Kwame, we'd still be tryna figure how to get back into the playoffs...If our low post offense/defense is bad now, think about where the fuck we'd be without Kwame...So next time you post, please try to think it out beforehand...PeACe
-
^^^^ y'all expected way too much from Bynum.. how many bigs were promising ? a lot, how many bigs succeeded in being dominant ? a very few.. we ain't got time to waste on him.. he has the skills but not the right mentality imo.. anyways if our plan is to wait for him to develop to be in position to win a championship, Kobe will be gone til a long time.. as good as he can be, you have to be insane to choose him over KB24.. I just don't get the point of this whole situation, I'm tired of hearing this rebuilding shit.. we'll have plenty of times thinking about it when Kobe retires in 6-7 years, now it's about DAMN time to be a SERIOUS contender.. if this fuckin organization doesn't understand that, our franchise is in BIG trouble..
I don't think we expect too much out of Bynum...He has amazing hands, a soft touch, great footwork, length, agility, even a nice shot...He has all the tools to being a dominant center in 2-3 years, which is NOT when Kobe's retiring. In fact, that's when Kobe will really hit his prime...So calm down and have patience. Especially when The Captain tells us so...
Do you really think Kobe is gonna waiting 2 or 3 more years ? I don't think so... Will you be able to stand 2 or 3 years of mediocrity too ? I'm a huge fan, I know you're a huge fan too, I personally can't stand that shit anymore...
-
^^^^ y'all expected way too much from Bynum.. how many bigs were promising ? a lot, how many bigs succeeded in being dominant ? a very few.. we ain't got time to waste on him.. he has the skills but not the right mentality imo.. anyways if our plan is to wait for him to develop to be in position to win a championship, Kobe will be gone til a long time.. as good as he can be, you have to be insane to choose him over KB24.. I just don't get the point of this whole situation, I'm tired of hearing this rebuilding shit.. we'll have plenty of times thinking about it when Kobe retires in 6-7 years, now it's about DAMN time to be a SERIOUS contender.. if this fuckin organization doesn't understand that, our franchise is in BIG trouble..
I don't think we expect too much out of Bynum...He has amazing hands, a soft touch, great footwork, length, agility, even a nice shot...He has all the tools to being a dominant center in 2-3 years, which is NOT when Kobe's retiring. In fact, that's when Kobe will really hit his prime...So calm down and have patience. Especially when The Captain tells us so...
Do you really think Kobe is gonna waiting 2 or 3 more years ? I don't think so... Will you be able to stand 2 or 3 years of mediocrity too ? I'm a huge fan, I know you're a huge fan too, I personally can't stand that shit anymore...
Nobody said we have to be mediocre in the meantime...It takes growth as a team to reach a certain point, especially mentally. If we can play like we did to start the season for 82+, we're easily contenders in todays league. Now, add a reliable point guard to the mix with the MLE, maybe another vet with the Vet Min. and there's no question that we're no longer "mediocre"...Plus, Jordan Farmar a year removed from his rookie season, Bynum with another year under his belt, a healed Luke, Odom, Vlad, Kwame, (maybe even Mihm), etc...AND YOU GOT YOURSELF A TEAM!
-
That reminds me, with everyone weighing in on the "Where are the Lakers going from here?" debate, it has to be mentioned that their overall game plan never, ever, EVER made sense. Why waste two years of Kobe's prime by trying to develop young players like Andrew Bynum and Kwame Brown over targeting gamers (dealing Caron Butler never made sense) and using expiring contracts to acquire playoff-proven guys (for instance, they could have had Kidd if they included Bynum in the deal). How could they allow all those contracts (over $10 million worth of expiring deals) to simply expire without taking a flier on someone like Stephen Jackson? And why aren't Lakers fans more furious that their team willingly threw away Kobe's prime like this? I don't get it.
- Bill Simmons
Threw away Kobe's prime? Bill Simmons needs help, Kobe is still 28. And LMAO@"dealing Caron Butler never made sense". I'm sure he really knows what he's talking about there. Lakers were stuck with no low-post presence, we'd be 3 years out of the playoffs had we never dealt for Kwame... ::)
Lol you just refuse to be real if it means saying anything not worshiping the Lakers.
The Lakers GAVE away Butler (a future All-Star who was oozing with potential) for Kwame Brown (arguably the biggest bust ever). We had Mihm, we ended up drafting Bynum/Turiaf, keeping Butler was the smart thing to do.
YEA! Keeping Butler (who was about to sign with another team) woulda REALLY been the smart thing to do! You know, huh? LOL. Caron Butler did NOTHING for us. He's a perimeter player to begin with and doesn't fill ANY of our needs. Lamar Odom would be an all-star in the east too, what's your point? Kwame is what got us into the playoffs these past 2 years. He's been our starting center and was our main reason for any success we had in that great stretch at the end of 2006. Without Kwame, we'd still be tryna figure how to get back into the playoffs...If our low post offense/defense is bad now, think about where the fuck we'd be without Kwame...So next time you post, please try to think it out beforehand...PeACe
He did fill our needs, he could score without Kobe spoonfeeding him. If Kwame is the reason for our "success" I guess that explains why the Lakers don't know what the 2nd round feels like.
And LMAO @ Odom being an All-Star in the East. I don't recall him making the 04 All-Star team while in Miami.
-
What the fuck is up with Caron Butler now? Shit, he's a good scorer, but do i have to remember y'all our final record the year he played in L.A.?
-
anyone see abc on the west coast rite now? norm nixon, rub fukuzaki, curt sandoval, and even stephen a. smith all agree with this topic. have kobe convince KG to get kevin mchale to agree to a trade, keep odom, and deal bynum (and if we must, kwame).
-
That reminds me, with everyone weighing in on the "Where are the Lakers going from here?" debate, it has to be mentioned that their overall game plan never, ever, EVER made sense. Why waste two years of Kobe's prime by trying to develop young players like Andrew Bynum and Kwame Brown over targeting gamers (dealing Caron Butler never made sense) and using expiring contracts to acquire playoff-proven guys (for instance, they could have had Kidd if they included Bynum in the deal). How could they allow all those contracts (over $10 million worth of expiring deals) to simply expire without taking a flier on someone like Stephen Jackson? And why aren't Lakers fans more furious that their team willingly threw away Kobe's prime like this? I don't get it.
- Bill Simmons
Threw away Kobe's prime? Bill Simmons needs help, Kobe is still 28. And LMAO@"dealing Caron Butler never made sense". I'm sure he really knows what he's talking about there. Lakers were stuck with no low-post presence, we'd be 3 years out of the playoffs had we never dealt for Kwame... ::)
Lol you just refuse to be real if it means saying anything not worshiping the Lakers.
The Lakers GAVE away Butler (a future All-Star who was oozing with potential) for Kwame Brown (arguably the biggest bust ever). We had Mihm, we ended up drafting Bynum/Turiaf, keeping Butler was the smart thing to do.
YEA! Keeping Butler (who was about to sign with another team) woulda REALLY been the smart thing to do! You know, huh? LOL. Caron Butler did NOTHING for us. He's a perimeter player to begin with and doesn't fill ANY of our needs. Lamar Odom would be an all-star in the east too, what's your point? Kwame is what got us into the playoffs these past 2 years. He's been our starting center and was our main reason for any success we had in that great stretch at the end of 2006. Without Kwame, we'd still be tryna figure how to get back into the playoffs...If our low post offense/defense is bad now, think about where the fuck we'd be without Kwame...So next time you post, please try to think it out beforehand...PeACe
He did fill our needs, he could score without Kobe spoonfeeding him. If Kwame is the reason for our "success" I guess that explains why the Lakers don't know what the 2nd round feels like.
And LMAO @ Odom being an All-Star in the East. I don't recall him making the 04 All-Star team while in Miami.
That's cuz he was robbed by Jamal Magloire that year...Odom is an all-star in the east, I don't know where your argument is. He's easily a better overall player than Butler...Butler is a great scorer, but again, our need for a reliable low post threat and a true point guard was much greater. If you knew anyhting about the Lakers, you woulda known this. Everyone was saying how the Butler trade was an excellent move on Mitch's behalf last season, before Kwame played this whole season with a battered body. No trade for Kwame means no playoffs these past two season. I guarantee it. That means we'd currenly be two steps behind where we are now!...PeACe
-
anyone see abc on the west coast rite now? norm nixon, rub fukuzaki, curt sandoval, and even stephen a. smith all agree with this topic. have kobe convince KG to get kevin mchale to agree to a trade, keep odom, and deal bynum (and if we must, kwame).
Like i said, if we can get a superstar trading Bynum and keeping Odom i'm down.
-
Kidd would have been a great addition.. this organization put our future success on the shoulders of a 19 year old kid who's mentally weak and I have doubts he'll really be something... fact is Mitch Kupchack is a very average GM, Jim is on Bynum dickrider.. to be honest this summer can be more dissapointing than the 06-07 season
LOL....still feel the same? Micth's outlook>>>>>>yours
-
Doubt odom-rated lasts more than 2 full seasons unless they win rings
-
^They've already won 2 in a row with him and have 3 straight finals appearances...
-
So without him they dont win none and no appearances?
-
Well obviously that's impossible to say cause who knows who they woulda gotten for him, but considering the fact that he's one of the most versatile players in the league, has been a borderline all star his entire stint in LA, and is someone Kobe likes to play with, it would be pretty dumb to let him go.
-
They cant get equal value nstead of him?