West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: teecee on May 11, 2007, 01:56:44 PM
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Check this from SLAM:
"For those who continue to believe that Kobe Bryant should have won, it’s worth noting here that of the five MVPs Michael Jordan won in his career, only ONE, his first, came in a year when his team didn’t win at least 60 regular-season games and the division title. That first one came in the 1988 season when he averaged a league-leading 35 points (while shooting 53 percent from the floor), 5.9 assists and 5.2 rebounds per. Oh yeah, he also averaged 3.2 steals and a career-high 1.6 blocks and was named Defensive Player of the Year. I guess what I’m trying to say is THAT’S what it took for Jordan to win an MVP when his team wasn’t at a championship level (they still won 50 games). Maybe Kobe still has a little way to go.
In fact, in the entire HISTORY of the award, team record has ALWAYS played a role. I always go back to the amazing ‘61-62 season when Oscar Robertson averaged a 30.8 point, 11.4 assist, 12.5 rebound triple-double and Wilt Chamberlain averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds per (and dropped 100 on the Knicks) and the MVP went to…Bill Russell. Russ only averaged 18.9 points and 23.6 rebounds a game that year, but his Celtics? They won 60 games and the Eastern Conference. (In a somewhat odd twist, Russell was named MVP that season yet was not named to the All-NBA First Team.)"
Couldn't have put it better myself. Of course, someone from the "MEDIA" wrote this, so it could be complete bullshit, right???
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he is one of the best players in the league.
i wouldnt mind if he was named MVP.
if you take Dirk away from the Mavs, they are still a playoff team.
if you take away Nash from the Suns, they are still a playoff team
however,
if you take Kobe away from the Lakers, they would be nowhere near the playoff chase.
of course, just my oppinion. 8)
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I would put Kobe at number 2 on the list of MVP candidates this season, this is just Dirk's year and he deserves it. But there's no excuse for Kobe not winning it last season or in 03.
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LOL...Typical BS. You do realize that Kobe is KNOWN to be a hated athlete and garbage like this gets printed all the time, right?...Moses Malone won the MVP when they had the same record as the Lakers! There goes that argument down the drain...And Kobe has had CONSECUTIVE remarkable seasons, and is UNDENIABLY the best player in the league.
Last year: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, Scoring title 35.4 PPG, Top 10 steals, historic 81 point game, historic 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring Mavs), leading a team with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs, if that's not MVP, what is?
And how bout this year?: 1st Team All-NBA AGAIN, 1st Team All-Defense AGAIN, Scoring title AGAIN with 32.8 PPG, All-Star MVP, leads team in assists, youngest to reach 16,000, youngest to reach 17,000 (in the same season :o), broke numerous records with all those 50+ point games, once again leads a team (this time a BATTERED team) with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs...MVP. MVP. 8)
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LOL...Typical BS. You do realize that Kobe is KNOWN to be a hated athlete and garbage like this gets printed all the time, right?...Moses Malone won the MVP when they had the same record as the Lakers! There goes that argument down the drain...And Kobe has had CONSECUTIVE remarkable seasons, and is UNDENIABLY the best player in the league.
Last year: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, Scoring title 35.4 PPG, Top 10 steals, historic 81 point game, historic 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring Mavs), leading a team with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs, if that's not MVP, what is?
And how bout this year?: 1st Team All-NBA AGAIN, 1st Team All-Defense AGAIN, Scoring title AGAIN with 32.8 PPG, All-Star MVP, leads team in assists, youngest to reach 16,000, youngest to reach 17,000 (in the same season :o), broke numerous records with all those 50+ point games, once again leads a team (this time a BATTERED team) with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs...MVP. MVP. 8)
Hey guys, Kobe is an AMAZING athlete and definitely the most talented player in the game, and as i have said before, he WILL get a couple of MVP's before he's done.
A couple of questions: How does scoring 81 points in a game make someone the MVP???
Kow does being the All-star game MVP make someone the MVP?
Wouldn't you say Mosaes Malone was an exception, therebye making the above argument from SLAM valid?
And one question i REALLY WANT THE ANSWER TO..........
If the Lakers have "D-League" talent, then why did a couple of you guys pick them to beat the Suns and possibly win the
championship? Are ya'll really on Kobe like THAT???????????
I posted the bit from SLAM to show you that even MJ didn't get MVP love unless his team WON! The only year he did, he had an even better year than Kobe had last year. I don't even think its truly about stats, but until Kobe starts winning there is no basis for him to even be in the argument.
KOBE:
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
05-06 LAL 80 80 41.0 .450 .347 .850 0.9 4.4 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 3.13 2.9035.4
MJ:
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.7 5.1 6.9 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
Jordan only won ONE MVP out of those 4 years, in 87-88, and he had to have 4 times as many steals, twice as many blocks, more assists, more rebounds, shoot 53 percent (Kobe shot 45%, guess how many MVP's have shot 45 percent???).
Looking at his 88-89 numbers, wouldn't you guys say its crazy he didn't win? 32.5, 8, and 8, with almost 3 steals while shooting 54 percent???
Point is, it is near impossible to win the award without leading your team to a great record. Kobe will eventually do it, and then he'll get his MVP.
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Point is, it is near impossible to win the award without leading your team to a great record. Kobe will eventually do it, and then he'll get his MVP.
Even if he doesn't, he will get at least 1 MVP title. Unless someone shoots him in his knees tonight.
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Furthermore, in the last 23 years (probably more, i am too lazy to check) of bball, only one player has been awarded MVP while his team won less than 56 games, that being MJ, and the Bulls won 50 that year. No MVP has been on a team that has finished lower than 3rd in the conference in the last 20 years (at least) either.
As for the shooting percentage thing, since 1956, only Allen Iverson has shot 45 percent or lower and still one the MVP. Is it a wrap yet?????????
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Furthermore, in the last 23 years (probably more, i am too lazy to check) of bball, only one player has been awarded MVP while his team won less than 56 games, that being MJ, and the Bulls won 50 that year. No MVP has been on a team that has finished lower than 3rd in the conference in the last 20 years (at least) either.
As for the shooting percentage thing, since 1956, only Allen Iverson has shot 45 percent or lower and still one the MVP. Is it a wrap yet?????????
Of course, and it should be like that. Nik is just being Nik. There is no merit in arguing over the same thing over and over again. I stopped participating in those Kobe/Nash arguments for a good reason.
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In a somewhat odd twist, Russell was named MVP that season yet was not named to the All-NBA First Team.
That definatly says something.
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LOL...Typical BS. You do realize that Kobe is KNOWN to be a hated athlete and garbage like this gets printed all the time, right?...Moses Malone won the MVP when they had the same record as the Lakers! There goes that argument down the drain...And Kobe has had CONSECUTIVE remarkable seasons, and is UNDENIABLY the best player in the league.
Last year: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, Scoring title 35.4 PPG, Top 10 steals, historic 81 point game, historic 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring Mavs), leading a team with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs, if that's not MVP, what is?
And how bout this year?: 1st Team All-NBA AGAIN, 1st Team All-Defense AGAIN, Scoring title AGAIN with 32.8 PPG, All-Star MVP, leads team in assists, youngest to reach 16,000, youngest to reach 17,000 (in the same season :o), broke numerous records with all those 50+ point games, once again leads a team (this time a BATTERED team) with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs...MVP. MVP. 8)
Hey guys, Kobe is an AMAZING athlete and definitely the most talented player in the game, and as i have said before, he WILL get a couple of MVP's before he's done.
A couple of questions: How does scoring 81 points in a game make someone the MVP???
Kow does being the All-star game MVP make someone the MVP?
Wouldn't you say Mosaes Malone was an exception, therebye making the above argument from SLAM valid?
And one question i REALLY WANT THE ANSWER TO..........
If the Lakers have "D-League" talent, then why did a couple of you guys pick them to beat the Suns and possibly win the
championship? Are ya'll really on Kobe like THAT???????????
I posted the bit from SLAM to show you that even MJ didn't get MVP love unless his team WON! The only year he did, he had an even better year than Kobe had last year. I don't even think its truly about stats, but until Kobe starts winning there is no basis for him to even be in the argument.
KOBE:
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
05-06 LAL 80 80 41.0 .450 .347 .850 0.9 4.4 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 3.13 2.9035.4
MJ:
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.7 5.1 6.9 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
Jordan only won ONE MVP out of those 4 years, in 87-88, and he had to have 4 times as many steals, twice as many blocks, more assists, more rebounds, shoot 53 percent (Kobe shot 45%, guess how many MVP's have shot 45 percent???).
Looking at his 88-89 numbers, wouldn't you guys say its crazy he didn't win? 32.5, 8, and 8, with almost 3 steals while shooting 54 percent???
Point is, it is near impossible to win the award without leading your team to a great record. Kobe will eventually do it, and then he'll get his MVP.
The difference in percentages is only due to the fact that Kobe actually has range and Jordan didn't. Kobe has a 3point shot, and anyone who shoots threes will have a lower overall percentage than someone who doesn't. Look at Jordan's hideous percentage from 3 in the season you posted. Jordan had almost no shot that year, sorta like a Wade nowadays- Tremendous athlete, but not complete. Jordan had more to work with and did less. Kobe did some things in these past 2 seasons that Jordan could only dream of doing. Sure, you have a better chance when you win more, but even when Kobe's team DID win and he deserved the MVP, he STILL didn't get it. And if Moses Malone gets it with the same record as the Lakers, but a MUCH less spectacular season than Kobe, what does that tell you? I think even when Kobe does finally get the supporting cast he needs and leads them to a great record, he STILL wont recieve the MVP...That's just my opinion though, based on what I've seen...PeACe
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In a somewhat odd twist, Russell was named MVP that season yet was not named to the All-NBA First Team.
That definatly says something.
LOL, exactly...The MVP award is tainted. That's what we've BEEN saying.
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Furthermore, in the last 23 years (probably more, i am too lazy to check) of bball, only one player has been awarded MVP while his team won less than 56 games, that being MJ, and the Bulls won 50 that year. No MVP has been on a team that has finished lower than 3rd in the conference in the last 20 years (at least) either.
As for the shooting percentage thing, since 1956, only Allen Iverson has shot 45 percent or lower and still one the MVP. Is it a wrap yet?????????
Of course, and it should be like that. Nik is just being Nik. There is no merit in arguing over the same thing over and over again. I stopped participating in those Kobe/Nash arguments for a good reason.
You think Nash deserved the MVP over Kobe last season? ???
:laugh:
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Furthermore, in the last 23 years (probably more, i am too lazy to check) of bball, only one player has been awarded MVP while his team won less than 56 games, that being MJ, and the Bulls won 50 that year. No MVP has been on a team that has finished lower than 3rd in the conference in the last 20 years (at least) either.
As for the shooting percentage thing, since 1956, only Allen Iverson has shot 45 percent or lower and still one the MVP. Is it a wrap yet?????????
Of course, and it should be like that. Nik is just being Nik. There is no merit in arguing over the same thing over and over again. I stopped participating in those Kobe/Nash arguments for a good reason.
You think Nash deserved the MVP over Kobe last season? ???
:laugh:
Nash didn't even deserve it over Shaq the year before that
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LOL...Typical BS. You do realize that Kobe is KNOWN to be a hated athlete and garbage like this gets printed all the time, right?...Moses Malone won the MVP when they had the same record as the Lakers! There goes that argument down the drain...And Kobe has had CONSECUTIVE remarkable seasons, and is UNDENIABLY the best player in the league.
Last year: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, Scoring title 35.4 PPG, Top 10 steals, historic 81 point game, historic 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring Mavs), leading a team with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs, if that's not MVP, what is?
And how bout this year?: 1st Team All-NBA AGAIN, 1st Team All-Defense AGAIN, Scoring title AGAIN with 32.8 PPG, All-Star MVP, leads team in assists, youngest to reach 16,000, youngest to reach 17,000 (in the same season :o), broke numerous records with all those 50+ point games, once again leads a team (this time a BATTERED team) with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs...MVP. MVP. 8)
Hey guys, Kobe is an AMAZING athlete and definitely the most talented player in the game, and as i have said before, he WILL get a couple of MVP's before he's done.
A couple of questions: How does scoring 81 points in a game make someone the MVP???
Kow does being the All-star game MVP make someone the MVP?
Wouldn't you say Mosaes Malone was an exception, therebye making the above argument from SLAM valid?
And one question i REALLY WANT THE ANSWER TO..........
If the Lakers have "D-League" talent, then why did a couple of you guys pick them to beat the Suns and possibly win the
championship? Are ya'll really on Kobe like THAT???????????
I posted the bit from SLAM to show you that even MJ didn't get MVP love unless his team WON! The only year he did, he had an even better year than Kobe had last year. I don't even think its truly about stats, but until Kobe starts winning there is no basis for him to even be in the argument.
KOBE:
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
05-06 LAL 80 80 41.0 .450 .347 .850 0.9 4.4 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 3.13 2.9035.4
MJ:
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.7 5.1 6.9 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
Jordan only won ONE MVP out of those 4 years, in 87-88, and he had to have 4 times as many steals, twice as many blocks, more assists, more rebounds, shoot 53 percent (Kobe shot 45%, guess how many MVP's have shot 45 percent???).
Looking at his 88-89 numbers, wouldn't you guys say its crazy he didn't win? 32.5, 8, and 8, with almost 3 steals while shooting 54 percent???
Point is, it is near impossible to win the award without leading your team to a great record. Kobe will eventually do it, and then he'll get his MVP.
The difference in percentages is only due to the fact that Kobe actually has range and Jordan didn't. Kobe has a 3point shot, and anyone who shoots threes will have a lower overall percentage than someone who doesn't. Look at Jordan's hideous percentage from 3 in the season you posted. Jordan had almost no shot that year, sorta like a Wade nowadays- Tremendous athlete, but not complete. Jordan had more to work with and did less. Kobe did some things in these past 2 seasons that Jordan could only dream of doing. Sure, you have a better chance when you win more, but even when Kobe's team DID win and he deserved the MVP, he STILL didn't get it. And if Moses Malone gets it with the same record as the Lakers, but a MUCH less spectacular season than Kobe, what does that tell you? I think even when Kobe does finally get the supporting cast he needs and leads them to a great record, he STILL wont recieve the MVP...That's just my opinion though, based on what I've seen...PeACe
Just as far as the 3's thing goes, in the 80's, 3 pointers weren't as big a part of the game as it is now. Kobe is a FANTASIC player, but he didn't have an MVP season, and while there may have been a few exceptions, I believe the MVP award winner should be from at least the best 2 or 3 teams at least.
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LOL...Typical BS. You do realize that Kobe is KNOWN to be a hated athlete and garbage like this gets printed all the time, right?...Moses Malone won the MVP when they had the same record as the Lakers! There goes that argument down the drain...And Kobe has had CONSECUTIVE remarkable seasons, and is UNDENIABLY the best player in the league.
Last year: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, Scoring title 35.4 PPG, Top 10 steals, historic 81 point game, historic 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring Mavs), leading a team with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs, if that's not MVP, what is?
And how bout this year?: 1st Team All-NBA AGAIN, 1st Team All-Defense AGAIN, Scoring title AGAIN with 32.8 PPG, All-Star MVP, leads team in assists, youngest to reach 16,000, youngest to reach 17,000 (in the same season :o), broke numerous records with all those 50+ point games, once again leads a team (this time a BATTERED team) with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs...MVP. MVP. 8)
Hey guys, Kobe is an AMAZING athlete and definitely the most talented player in the game, and as i have said before, he WILL get a couple of MVP's before he's done.
A couple of questions: How does scoring 81 points in a game make someone the MVP???
Kow does being the All-star game MVP make someone the MVP?
Wouldn't you say Mosaes Malone was an exception, therebye making the above argument from SLAM valid?
And one question i REALLY WANT THE ANSWER TO..........
If the Lakers have "D-League" talent, then why did a couple of you guys pick them to beat the Suns and possibly win the
championship? Are ya'll really on Kobe like THAT???????????
I posted the bit from SLAM to show you that even MJ didn't get MVP love unless his team WON! The only year he did, he had an even better year than Kobe had last year. I don't even think its truly about stats, but until Kobe starts winning there is no basis for him to even be in the argument.
KOBE:
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
05-06 LAL 80 80 41.0 .450 .347 .850 0.9 4.4 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 3.13 2.9035.4
MJ:
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.7 5.1 6.9 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
Jordan only won ONE MVP out of those 4 years, in 87-88, and he had to have 4 times as many steals, twice as many blocks, more assists, more rebounds, shoot 53 percent (Kobe shot 45%, guess how many MVP's have shot 45 percent???).
Looking at his 88-89 numbers, wouldn't you guys say its crazy he didn't win? 32.5, 8, and 8, with almost 3 steals while shooting 54 percent???
Point is, it is near impossible to win the award without leading your team to a great record. Kobe will eventually do it, and then he'll get his MVP.
The difference in percentages is only due to the fact that Kobe actually has range and Jordan didn't. Kobe has a 3point shot, and anyone who shoots threes will have a lower overall percentage than someone who doesn't. Look at Jordan's hideous percentage from 3 in the season you posted. Jordan had almost no shot that year, sorta like a Wade nowadays- Tremendous athlete, but not complete. Jordan had more to work with and did less. Kobe did some things in these past 2 seasons that Jordan could only dream of doing. Sure, you have a better chance when you win more, but even when Kobe's team DID win and he deserved the MVP, he STILL didn't get it. And if Moses Malone gets it with the same record as the Lakers, but a MUCH less spectacular season than Kobe, what does that tell you? I think even when Kobe does finally get the supporting cast he needs and leads them to a great record, he STILL wont recieve the MVP...That's just my opinion though, based on what I've seen...PeACe
Just as far as the 3's thing goes, in the 80's, 3 pointers weren't as big a part of the game as it is now. Kobe is a FANTASIC player, but he didn't have an MVP season, and while there may have been a few exceptions, I believe the MVP award winner should be from at least the best 2 or 3 teams at least.
Try telling that to Larry Bird.
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LOL...Typical BS. You do realize that Kobe is KNOWN to be a hated athlete and garbage like this gets printed all the time, right?...Moses Malone won the MVP when they had the same record as the Lakers! There goes that argument down the drain...And Kobe has had CONSECUTIVE remarkable seasons, and is UNDENIABLY the best player in the league.
Last year: 1st Team All-NBA, 1st Team All-Defense, Scoring title 35.4 PPG, Top 10 steals, historic 81 point game, historic 62 points in 3 quarters (outscoring Mavs), leading a team with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs, if that's not MVP, what is?
And how bout this year?: 1st Team All-NBA AGAIN, 1st Team All-Defense AGAIN, Scoring title AGAIN with 32.8 PPG, All-Star MVP, leads team in assists, youngest to reach 16,000, youngest to reach 17,000 (in the same season :o), broke numerous records with all those 50+ point games, once again leads a team (this time a BATTERED team) with D-League level talent playing major roles into the NBA playoffs...MVP. MVP. 8)
Hey guys, Kobe is an AMAZING athlete and definitely the most talented player in the game, and as i have said before, he WILL get a couple of MVP's before he's done.
A couple of questions: How does scoring 81 points in a game make someone the MVP???
Kow does being the All-star game MVP make someone the MVP?
Wouldn't you say Mosaes Malone was an exception, therebye making the above argument from SLAM valid?
And one question i REALLY WANT THE ANSWER TO..........
If the Lakers have "D-League" talent, then why did a couple of you guys pick them to beat the Suns and possibly win the
championship? Are ya'll really on Kobe like THAT???????????
I posted the bit from SLAM to show you that even MJ didn't get MVP love unless his team WON! The only year he did, he had an even better year than Kobe had last year. I don't even think its truly about stats, but until Kobe starts winning there is no basis for him to even be in the argument.
KOBE:
Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
05-06 LAL 80 80 41.0 .450 .347 .850 0.9 4.4 5.3 4.5 1.8 0.4 3.13 2.9035.4
MJ:
YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
86-87 CHI 82 82 40.0 .482 .182 .857 2.0 3.2 5.2 4.6 2.88 1.52 3.32 2.90 37.1
87-88 CHI 82 82 40.4 .535 .132 .841 1.7 3.8 5.5 5.9 3.16 1.60 3.07 3.30 35.0
88-89 CHI 81 81 40.2 .538 .276 .850 1.8 6.2 8.0 8.0 2.89 .80 3.58 3.00 32.5
89-90 CHI 82 82 39.0 .526 .376 .848 1.7 5.1 6.9 6.3 2.77 .66 3.01 2.90 33.6
Jordan only won ONE MVP out of those 4 years, in 87-88, and he had to have 4 times as many steals, twice as many blocks, more assists, more rebounds, shoot 53 percent (Kobe shot 45%, guess how many MVP's have shot 45 percent???).
Looking at his 88-89 numbers, wouldn't you guys say its crazy he didn't win? 32.5, 8, and 8, with almost 3 steals while shooting 54 percent???
Point is, it is near impossible to win the award without leading your team to a great record. Kobe will eventually do it, and then he'll get his MVP.
The difference in percentages is only due to the fact that Kobe actually has range and Jordan didn't. Kobe has a 3point shot, and anyone who shoots threes will have a lower overall percentage than someone who doesn't. Look at Jordan's hideous percentage from 3 in the season you posted. Jordan had almost no shot that year, sorta like a Wade nowadays- Tremendous athlete, but not complete. Jordan had more to work with and did less. Kobe did some things in these past 2 seasons that Jordan could only dream of doing. Sure, you have a better chance when you win more, but even when Kobe's team DID win and he deserved the MVP, he STILL didn't get it. And if Moses Malone gets it with the same record as the Lakers, but a MUCH less spectacular season than Kobe, what does that tell you? I think even when Kobe does finally get the supporting cast he needs and leads them to a great record, he STILL wont recieve the MVP...That's just my opinion though, based on what I've seen...PeACe
Just as far as the 3's thing goes, in the 80's, 3 pointers weren't as big a part of the game as it is now. Kobe is a FANTASIC player, but he didn't have an MVP season, and while there may have been a few exceptions, I believe the MVP award winner should be from at least the best 2 or 3 teams at least.
Try telling that to Larry Bird.
Bird was one of the few, don't nitpick. Much less 3 point shots were taken in the 80's, especially compared to nowadays, so it's wasn't as big a part of the game.
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The 3 point game started becoming more popular in the mid-to-late 80's with Larry Bird and Michael Adams. Jordan NEVER had the range Kobe did, it's probably one of the weakest areas in his game.
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Well nowadays the game is just different, if Jordan was born 12 years later I'm sure he'd be a better 3 point shooter, no question.
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^LOL! Jordan's jumper in general was never close to being as good as Kobe's...
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^LOL! Jordan's jumper in general was never close to being as good as Kobe's...
I'm not saying he'd be no questions asked a better 3pt nigga than Kobe, I meant that he'd be a better 3pt shooter than his alter ego used to be.
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^Maybe... but as of now, that's not that case.
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"Kobe did some things in these past 2 seasons that Jordan could only dream of doing"... LOL Jordan has done things throughout his whole career that Kobe can only dream of doing... and is striving to... with that being said, Jordan >>>>>>>> Kobe. No need for hypotheticals.
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"Kobe did some things in these past 2 seasons that Jordan could only dream of doing"... LOL Jordan has done things throughout his whole career that Kobe can only dream of doing... and is striving to... with that being said, Jordan >>>>>>>> Kobe. No need for hypotheticals.
Kobe=28, entering his prime
Jordan=45, done with his career.
:D
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"Kobe did some things in these past 2 seasons that Jordan could only dream of doing"... LOL Jordan has done things throughout his whole career that Kobe can only dream of doing... and is striving to... with that being said, Jordan >>>>>>>> Kobe. No need for hypotheticals.
Kobe=28, entering his prime
Jordan=45, done with his career.
:D
Like I said... Jordan has done things in his career that Kobe can only dream of accomplishing... and until he does, Jordan >>>> Kobe.
Saying that Kobe is still young and has ways to go only emphasizes what I just said. There's no point in saying "maybe by the time Kobe is done playing, he'll have accomplished more than Jordan".... is it possible? Sure, why not. Doesn't change anything though.
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Knock Knock
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"Kobe did some things in these past 2 seasons that Jordan could only dream of doing"... LOL Jordan has done things throughout his whole career that Kobe can only dream of doing... and is striving to... with that being said, Jordan >>>>>>>> Kobe. No need for hypotheticals.
Kobe=28, entering his prime
Jordan=45, done with his career.
:D
Like I said... Jordan has done things in his career that Kobe can only dream of accomplishing... and until he does, Jordan >>>> Kobe.
Saying that Kobe is still young and has ways to go only emphasizes what I just said. There's no point in saying "maybe by the time Kobe is done playing, he'll have accomplished more than Jordan".... is it possible? Sure, why not. Doesn't change anything though.
It's not just possible, it's probable...Based on individual talent, Kobe is already passed Jordan, which tells me there's a good chance he will surpass Jordan status-wise in the next few years as well...PeACe
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"Kobe did some things in these past 2 seasons that Jordan could only dream of doing"... LOL Jordan has done things throughout his whole career that Kobe can only dream of doing... and is striving to... with that being said, Jordan >>>>>>>> Kobe. No need for hypotheticals.
Kobe=28, entering his prime
Jordan=45, done with his career.
:D
Like I said... Jordan has done things in his career that Kobe can only dream of accomplishing... and until he does, Jordan >>>> Kobe.
Saying that Kobe is still young and has ways to go only emphasizes what I just said. There's no point in saying "maybe by the time Kobe is done playing, he'll have accomplished more than Jordan".... is it possible? Sure, why not. Doesn't change anything though.
It's not just possible, it's probable...Based on individual talent, Kobe is already passed Jordan, which tells me there's a good chance he will surpass Jordan status-wise in the next few years as well...PeACe
Like I said... the fact that people have to say "there's a good chance he will surpass Jordan" is them already admitting that Jordan >>>>> Kobe... and one does not base success on hypotheticals.
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We're talking about accomplishments, not talent...Talent-wise, Kobe > Jordan.
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Knock Knock
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We're talking about accomplishments, not talent...Talent-wise, Kobe > Jordan.
Talent wise, its close between Jordan and Kobe, too close to call. I'd say these two are the two most talented players ever, at least as far as the players i hav ebeen fortunate enough to see.
HOWEVER. How can you say Kobe is MORE talented? Its obviously a bias man. Kobe is a better shooter from outside the three, but even if you look at his shooting percentage WITHOUT the three, its still not that great. Jordan had one of the best postup games of all time, could drive on ANYONE, and had the best fadeaway EVER.
Kobe is great too, but kinda like Usher compared to the original MJ. Similar dance moves, huge singles (Yeah), but no Thriller album.
But who cares about talent, throw it out the window. Bottom line is its all about accomplishments; there are lots of talented people who don't do shit, lots of brilliant peeps who don't even graduate high school. Its all about utilizing your talent to ACHIEVE.
Kobe has to win 5 regular MVP's, 6 playoff MVP's, a couple defensive player of the year awards, etc before he is on MJ's level. The good thing for Kobe is he is only 28. At that age, Jordan only had 1 title. This means Kobe has tons of time to do what MJ did, so if KObe is as great as you Lakers fans say, he will make it happen. Fuck all the excuses, forget the drama, either he does it or he doesn't, simple as that.
Lastly, besides scoring 81 points in a game, what exactly has Kobe done in the past few seasons that Jordan "can only dream on doing?" Please tell me Nik; just one other thing, thats all i ask.
Oh wait, i've got it. Being up 3-1 in a series, and then not even showing up for game 7. You're right, Jordan would never dream of that, he had way too much pride
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^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center. :laugh:
Kobe won championships when Jordan was still in college. Kobe has range that Jordan dreamed of having. Kobe has had amazing individual performances which made Jordan's amazing individual performances seem that much less amazing...I mean, come on, do you think Jordan could outscore Dallas in 3 quarters? Or score 81 in a game? Or how 'bout the way Kobe beat Jordan's record of consecutive 50+ point games? He's also scored a lot more points by a younger age... If Jordan was able to do that sort of stuff, I believe te Bulls woulda rivaled the 60's Celtics for greatest decade in basketball...PeACe
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Knock Knock
Fuck you
^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center. :laugh:
Kobe won championships when Jordan was still in college. Kobe has range that Jordan dreamed of having. Kobe has had amazing individual performances which made Jordan's amazing individual performances seem that much less amazing...I mean, come on, do you think Jordan could outscore Dallas in 3 quarters? Or score 81 in a game? Or how 'bout the way Kobe beat Jordan's record of consecutive 50+ point games? He's also scored a lot more points by a younger age... If Jordan was able to do that sort of stuff, I believe te Bulls woulda rivaled the 60's Celtics for greatest decade in basketball...PeACe
If he could have - he would have. These Kobe/Jordan comparisions scare the average sports fan but people have to deal with it. Kobe is worthy of being compared to the goats, he's not some 4th year player with billion dollar company paying to make people like him.
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If Jordan wouldn't have retired, they would've likely won 8 in a row which would've rivaled the Celtics.
Lets leave it at this. Of course Kobe did more at a younger age than Jordan, as he entered the league at a much younger age. Kobe is an amazing talent and an incredible athlete, but he's got a long way to go to match Jordan, even you can't deny that NIK. Maybe Kobe will do it, maybe he won't. Does Kobe have the potential, talent, athletic ability to be as good as Jordan? NO DOUBT. Will heachieve what Jordan achieved? We'll see. It'll be fun to watch man...........but Kobe faces the impossible to meet your expectations.
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Knock Knock
Who's there?
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Knock Knock
Who's there?
Mr. Knows why Kobe Bryant didn't win MVP
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he is one of the best players in the league.
i wouldnt mind if he was named MVP.
if you take Dirk away from the Mavs, they are still a playoff team.
if you take away Nash from the Suns, they are still a playoff team
however,
if you take Kobe away from the Lakers, they would be nowhere near the playoff chase.
of course, just my oppinion. 8)
good 1 :D
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^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center. :laugh:
lol the bulls had bill wenington/luc longly.....WTF??
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Point is, it is near impossible to win the award without leading your team to a great record.
Point is, i've never seen a player "that" good and so better than everybody else in the League playing in a team "that" wack who struggled at the end to make it to the post-season.
That's the problem. The only one. And that's what makes the MVP decision so controversial. Because Kobe IS the best player. And he's having the best seasons of his career.
But that's not enought because the Lakers aren't good enought.
That's why he's mad. He thinks he's wasting his best years, and he knows that if he had a better team he was now a 2x MVP playing the NBA Finals..
That's why he is no Kevin Garnett. That's why he's loyal but the situation is starting to stress him.
Kobe wants to be remembered as the greatest.
And to do that he has to win a couple of MVP's..
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Knock Knock
Who's there?
Mr. Knows why Kobe Bryant didn't win MVP
Mr. Knows why Kobe Bryant didn't win MVP who?
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Knock Knock
Who's there?
Mr. Knows why Kobe Bryant didn't win MVP
Mr. Knows why Kobe Bryant didn't win MVP who?
cause he sucks
lol
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^that's deep
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^that's deep
;D
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Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.
The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.
You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.
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It's so easy to blame Kobe. But you should remember that the coach of that team was Phil Jackson, and he wasn't able enought with his "zen" to make peace between the two (let's say three). And it was Jerry Buss who chosed not to re-sign Phil Jackson and to trade Shaq, while Kobe was an unrestricted Free Agent. It was been Buss who chosed Kobe over Shaq. And probably Kobe over Phil Jackson. So he's the one to blame, if you wanna blame someone. But i think he did the right decision. It was fucked up they had to reach that point, but at that point they had to continue with Kobe imho.
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Point is, it is near impossible to win the award without leading your team to a great record.
Point is, i've never seen a player "that" good and so better than everybody else in the League playing in a team "that" wack who struggled at the end to make it to the post-season.
That's the problem. The only one. And that's what makes the MVP decision so controversial. Because Kobe IS the best player. And he's having the best seasons of his career.
But that's not enought because the Lakers aren't good enought.
That's why he's mad. He thinks he's wasting his best years, and he knows that if he had a better team he was now a 2x MVP playing the NBA Finals..
That's why he is no Kevin Garnett. That's why he's loyal but the situation is starting to stress him.
Kobe wants to be remembered as the greatest.
And to do that he has to win a couple of MVP's..
-alll of that is kobe's problem he's too concerned about HIS legacy.
-kobe HAD a team he could have won mvps under when there was the shaq-kobe lakers
-deferring to shaq should never of been an issue if he really cared about winning.
-he would have been the magic to shaq's kareem if he let the shaq deferrence happen gradually
-i strongly believe that if managment RIGHT now would have done the RIGHT thing 3 seasons ago, we'd be talking about kobe as the 2 time mvp and 6 time champion. without a doubt
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It's so easy to blame Kobe. But you should remember that the coach of that team was Phil Jackson, and he wasn't able enought with his "zen" to make peace between the two (let's say three). And it was Jerry Buss who chosed not to re-sign Phil Jackson and to trade Shaq, while Kobe was an unrestricted Free Agent. It was been Buss who chosed Kobe over Shaq. And probably Kobe over Phil Jackson. So he's the one to blame, if you wanna blame someone. But i think he did the right decision. It was fucked up they had to reach that point, but at that point they had to continue with Kobe imho.
i do blame jerry buss, a few years ago i believe that's what i did. but a couple of people called sacrelig' on me for doubt the "all mighty knowing" jerry buss. dude is a great guy, and can be a smart business man, but he let personal feelings interfer with business here.
you don't let phil jackson walk out like that :: cough cough:: chicago bulls
you don't let shaq go :: cough cough :: 05-06 championship
you don't do all this just to keep kobe
then you really don't do all this to keep kobe then do as you guys are saying "surround him with d-leaguers" (i dont' really believe this but i'm integrating thoughts)
management FUCKED UP! whether you're a laker fan such as me or you're a laker fan such as NIK. no matter what fence you're on ,you have to admit Management fucked up.
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If Jordan wouldn't have retired, they would've likely won 8 in a row which would've rivaled the Celtics.
If that bitch didn't blame Kobe of raping her (note: he didn't), Kobe would've been the most loved "kid" by the NBA, their new Jordan, and he would've won at least an MVP, maybe two (2003 and 2005). Plus without that rape trial he would've been the most publicized, the most respected, and people (and exp. the media) would've blamed Shaq for being a fat ass instead that Kobe. Life is full of "if....". You gotta deal with them.
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no.
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Maybe. Who knows. Life is full of "If....". Like.... "If Malone didn't injury his foot in the Finals?". He was the key player for us on the defensive end, and his injury played a great role in our defeat. What if the Lakers won their 4th title? With Malone and Payton playing another season or two? And with Shaq staying in the club just to win a couple of more rings?
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I agree with Jrome about one thing: If Kobe could've deferred to that egomaniac Shaq a little bit longer, the Lakers would've won 3 more titles and Kobe would have at least 2 playoff MVP's, and maybe a couple regular season ones too.
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I agree with Jrome about one thing: If Kobe could've deferred to that egomaniac Shaq a little bit longer, the Lakers would've won 3 more titles and Kobe would have at least 2 playoff MVP's, and maybe a couple regular season ones too.
Man that foot broken by Malone played a great role imho. They did what they did because they lost the title imho. So they felt like they had to try a new adventure again. Kobe was basically blaming Shaq, and Shaq was basically blaming Kobe. The Pistons winning that title said the very last word to the relationship of Kobe and Shaq.
Anyway yeah, Kobe should have accepted Shaq as the leader a little bit more, i do agree.
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^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center. :laugh:
lol the bulls had bill wenington/luc longly.....WTF??
Wow....You didn't get that, did you? Check Kwame+Jordan's history.
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Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.
The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.
You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.
You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"... :D
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-alll of that is kobe's problem he's too concerned about HIS legacy.
You just pin-pointed Shaq's biggest problem. He has no loyalty, he's all about himself...Even YOU can see this. He didn't wanna fade out, he wanted to go out with a bang, and he felt like that would be impossible with Kobe taking over the spotlight...
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Anyway yeah, Kobe should have accepted Shaq as the leader a little bit more, i do agree.
He did. He never complained about Shaq leading the way, he just wanted Shaq to get in shape and stop being so lazy in the season if he was gunna lead the team. Kobe has work ethic. It's hard to endure a man like Shaq, who hurts his toe and takes months off, leading your way...
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I know, but with him (and everybody else) in the team he had a legit chance to win other 2-3 rings.
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^Yup...Too bad Shaq couldn't do it.
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Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.
The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.
You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.
You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"... :D
LMFAO!! You obviously don't know shit about basketball. The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!? They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals! It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left. Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq. But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass.
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Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.
The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.
You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.
You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"... :D
LMFAO!! You obviously don't know shit about basketball. The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!? They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals! It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left. Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq. But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass.
They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.
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Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.
The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.
You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.
You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"... :D
LMFAO!! You obviously don't know shit about basketball. The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!? They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals! It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left. Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq. But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass.
They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.
They were still DRASTICALLY BETTER w/ Shaq than without him, "black mamba cock lover". What do you mean you'd be doomed? You mean like being relegated to 45 win seasons, missing the playoffs or getting ousted in the FIRST ROUND AT BEST? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.
The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.
You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.
You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"... :D
LMFAO!! You obviously don't know shit about basketball. The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!? They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals! It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left. Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq. But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass.
They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.
They were still DRASTICALLY BETTER w/ Shaq than without him, "black mamba cock lover". What do you mean you'd be doomed? You mean like being relegated to 45 win seasons, missing the playoffs or getting ousted in the FIRST ROUND AT BEST? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Getting to the playoffs is good when you're in building stages...And when you have the best player in the league on your team to work with, you know you're in great shape. No way I'd be able to say the same had Shaq been in Kobe's current place...PeACe
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Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.
The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.
You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.
You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"... :D
LMFAO!! You obviously don't know shit about basketball. The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!? They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals! It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left. Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq. But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass.
They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.
They were still DRASTICALLY BETTER w/ Shaq than without him, "black mamba cock lover". What do you mean you'd be doomed? You mean like being relegated to 45 win seasons, missing the playoffs or getting ousted in the FIRST ROUND AT BEST? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Getting to the playoffs is good when you're in building stages...And when you have the best player in the league on your team to work with, you know you're in great shape. No way I'd be able to say the same had Shaq been in Kobe's current place...PeACe
You're in great shape? The last 3 years were a COMPLETE waste - blame it on injuries, blame it on officiating, blame it on the media, blame it on Michael Jordan. Bottom line is the Lakers haven't been a threat to win anything since Shaq left (Oh and the minor fact that he picked up his 4th ring has to be really hard to swallow). Nearly everybody that they've been playing and developing are potential trade bait now. Kobe sending ultimatums to management and hinting at leaving? I'm sure every team in the NBA wishes they were in The Lakers current position ::)
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Jordan and Pippen won all those championships (and would have won more had Jordan not bailed out for 2 years in his absolute prime) because EVERYONE knew Jordan was top dog. There was NO debate - Scottie knew it, everyone on the team knew it, everyone in the NBA knew it, every one of the fans knew it. Even fucking Dennis Rodman, who was a complete disaster everywhere he went (post Detroit in his early career) fell in line and never dared cross MJ.
The Lakers would have won several more championships if there wasn't a power struggle between Shaq and Kobe. You can't just blame one guy, you have to blame them both. They both have massive ego's. But look at what each guy has accomplished since the trade - Kobe failed to make the playoffs and then was out in the 1st round the last two years. Shaq went to the conference finals, won a championship, and then went out in the 1st round. Shaq's probably ok with how everything played out, Kobe's probably not.
You guys don't think that Kobe ever thinks to himself "had I known my role and continued deferring to Shaq and not undermining him, I could prolly have a couple more rings". A rational person would, but Kobe wanted to be top dog and didn't want to defer to anyone. You make your bed, now you have to sleep in it.
You realize Shaq went to Miami and only won when he deferred to Wade, correct? You realize the Lakers were losing WITH both of them when Kobe deferred to an out-of-shape, declining Shaq against coaches will, because Shaq wouldn't (to quote him) "play defense, or grab rebounds" if the offense didn't run through him, correct? There goes your "arguments"... :D
LMFAO!! You obviously don't know shit about basketball. The Lakers were losing with Shaq & Kobe?!? They lost to the fucking Pistons in the Finals! It beats the living shit out of what the Lakers have been doing since he left. Kobe was better off deferring to fat and lazy Shaq. But he didn't want to do that, he had to be top dog and now his team sucks ass.
They lost the year before that as well, "basketball fan"...So they brought in 2 hall of famers and still couldn't win with Shaq "leading" the way. Lakers were not better off. Shaq was acting ridiculous...We'd be doomed had we given Shaq that extreme contract he demanded. At least now we have something to build on, with the best player in the game leading the way.
They were still DRASTICALLY BETTER w/ Shaq than without him, "black mamba cock lover". What do you mean you'd be doomed? You mean like being relegated to 45 win seasons, missing the playoffs or getting ousted in the FIRST ROUND AT BEST? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Getting to the playoffs is good when you're in building stages...And when you have the best player in the league on your team to work with, you know you're in great shape. No way I'd be able to say the same had Shaq been in Kobe's current place...PeACe
You're in great shape? The last 3 years were a COMPLETE waste - blame it on injuries, blame it on officiating, blame it on the media, blame it on Michael Jordan. Bottom line is the Lakers haven't been a threat to win anything since Shaq left (Oh and the minor fact that he picked up his 4th ring has to be really hard to swallow). Nearly everybody that they've been playing and developing are potential trade bait now. Kobe sending ultimatums to management and hinting at leaving? I'm sure every team in the NBA wishes they were in The Lakers current position ::)
LOL@"ultimatums"...The fact is, no one picked us to make the playoffs last year. We made it and almost upset a 2nd seed. Barely anyone picked us to make it this year as well, and guess what, all the injuries in the world couldn't stop us. And that's with SMUSH PARKER as our starting point guard. The last 3 years were a waste? LMAO. Since when is playoff experience a waste? Our players are developing and learning the offense (Jordan, Turiaf, Luke, Bynum, Radman, Kwame, Evans, etc,). We are not far from being contenders. Shit, we're easily a better team than Utah or Golden State at full strength, and look where they are. And guess what, there are AT LEAST 14 teams who wish they could be in the Lakers position (making the playoffs). And I guarantee you it's even more than that, due to us having the best player and best center prospect to build around. LMAO@acting like the Lakers are the Clippers or something...Hmmm, who's in better shape for the future. The Lakers or the Heat?... :-*
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Man i love (no homo) Andris Biedrins. The guy is just 20. He's another wonderful prospect, imho. I'd trade Bynum for a superstar if we could get our hands on him.
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^^Biedrins is nice, but I see him as someone with potential to be an excellent role player. I much rather have Bynum.
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I'd rather have Oden.
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winning 05' -06' championship, going to the CF twice, making the playoffs 3 consecutive years, almost winning league MVP in first year, having winning season three consecutive years, rejuvenating a whole town>>>>>>>> going to playoffs 2 out of 3 years, almost winning mvp in second year, winninger all star mvp, having winning seasons 2-3 years, almost making it to second round in second year, scoring 81 points, winnining two scoring titles
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^LMFAO@if you think Shaq had a better last 2 season INDIVIDUALLY than Kobe....And Shaq HAS NOT been the leader of the Heat.
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winning 05' -06' championship, going to the CF twice, making the playoffs 3 consecutive years, almost winning league MVP in first year, having winning season three consecutive years, rejuvenating a whole town>>>>>>>> going to playoffs 2 out of 3 years, almost winning mvp in second year, winninger all star mvp, having winning seasons 2-3 years, almost making it to second round in second year, scoring 81 points, winnining two scoring titles
Are you talking about mr. "If he wants to give back $10 million and play half a season, that's fine',' "The dialogue has to stop. You can't sell that to your fans. He knows his influence on his teammates. He's going to have to lead by real example" ? Yeah, right. Keep dreaming about Shaq being slim and professional, dude. Whatever...
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^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center. :laugh:
Kobe won championships when Jordan was still in college. Kobe has range that Jordan dreamed of having. Kobe has had amazing individual performances which made Jordan's amazing individual performances seem that much less amazing...I mean, come on, do you think Jordan could outscore Dallas in 3 quarters? Or score 81 in a game? Or how 'bout the way Kobe beat Jordan's record of consecutive 50+ point games? He's also scored a lot more points by a younger age... If Jordan was able to do that sort of stuff, I believe te Bulls woulda rivaled the 60's Celtics for greatest decade in basketball...PeACe
I'm sure Jordan COULD do all of that if he had the teammates that Kobe had. Yeah, Kobe has had some great individual performances the last few years, but if Jordan had the same D-league teammates that Kobe had, he would have been more than capable. Jordan didn't HAVE to score 45 + for his team to win. Give it up though homie, Jordan is the GOAT no doubt about it, and it wont changing anytime soon. Plus, Jordan is a much more likeable person that Kobe, so that will affect how Kobe is percieved for the rest of his career. I mean shouting out the "f" word at the top of your lungs during a televised game is uncalled for and immature. Even Steven Jackson doesn't sink that low, and he's a real scumbag.
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^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center. :laugh:
Kobe won championships when Jordan was still in college. Kobe has range that Jordan dreamed of having. Kobe has had amazing individual performances which made Jordan's amazing individual performances seem that much less amazing...I mean, come on, do you think Jordan could outscore Dallas in 3 quarters? Or score 81 in a game? Or how 'bout the way Kobe beat Jordan's record of consecutive 50+ point games? He's also scored a lot more points by a younger age... If Jordan was able to do that sort of stuff, I believe te Bulls woulda rivaled the 60's Celtics for greatest decade in basketball...PeACe
I'm sure Jordan COULD do all of that if he had the teammates that Kobe had. Yeah, Kobe has had some great individual performances the last few years, but if Jordan had the same D-league teammates that Kobe had, he would have been more than capable. Jordan didn't HAVE to score 45 + for his team to win. Give it up though homie, Jordan is the GOAT no doubt about it, and it wont changing anytime soon. Plus, Jordan is a much more likeable person that Kobe, so that will affect how Kobe is percieved for the rest of his career. I mean shouting out the "f" word at the top of your lungs during a televised game is uncalled for and immature. Even Steven Jackson doesn't sink that low, and he's a real scumbag.
Jordan's record for attempted shots in one game is greater than Kobe's...There goes your theory. :D
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...And LMAO@Jordan being a more likeable person...Yea, as portrayed by the media.
But nothing is funnier than "the f word" though. ahahahahahaha.
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...And LMAO@Jordan being a more likeable person...Yea, as portrayed by the media.
But nothing is funnier than "the f word" though. ahahahahahaha.
I thought that him cursing that loud on a televised game was stupid as hell, there is no conversing with you though. Jordan>>>>>>>Kobe, nothing personal just facts.
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...And LMAO@Jordan being a more likeable person...Yea, as portrayed by the media.
But nothing is funnier than "the f word" though. ahahahahahaha.
I thought that him cursing that loud on a televised game was stupid as hell, there is no conversing with you though. Jordan>>>>>>>Kobe, nothing personal just facts.
That's a valid OPINION...As well as this:
Kobe 28 > Jordan 28
and LMAO@believing Jordan never cussed on TV or in a game. :laugh:
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^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center. :laugh:
Kobe won championships when Jordan was still in college. Kobe has range that Jordan dreamed of having. Kobe has had amazing individual performances which made Jordan's amazing individual performances seem that much less amazing...I mean, come on, do you think Jordan could outscore Dallas in 3 quarters? Or score 81 in a game? Or how 'bout the way Kobe beat Jordan's record of consecutive 50+ point games? He's also scored a lot more points by a younger age... If Jordan was able to do that sort of stuff, I believe te Bulls woulda rivaled the 60's Celtics for greatest decade in basketball...PeACe
I'm sure Jordan COULD do all of that if he had the teammates that Kobe had. Yeah, Kobe has had some great individual performances the last few years, but if Jordan had the same D-league teammates that Kobe had, he would have been more than capable. Jordan didn't HAVE to score 45 + for his team to win. Give it up though homie, Jordan is the GOAT no doubt about it, and it wont changing anytime soon. Plus, Jordan is a much more likeable person that Kobe, so that will affect how Kobe is percieved for the rest of his career. I mean shouting out the "f" word at the top of your lungs during a televised game is uncalled for and immature. Even Steven Jackson doesn't sink that low, and he's a real scumbag.
Jordan's record for attempted shots in one game is greater than Kobe's...There goes your theory. :D
In one game? Shit, i've already proved in one post, some times ago, that Jordan had a greater attempted shots per game stat for 3/4 of his career!!!!!! Not just for a single game..
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...And LMAO@Jordan being a more likeable person...Yea, as portrayed by the media.
But nothing is funnier than "the f word" though. ahahahahahaha.
I thought that him cursing that loud on a televised game was stupid as hell, there is no conversing with you though. Jordan>>>>>>>Kobe, nothing personal just facts.
That's a valid OPINION...As well as this:
Kobe 28 > Jordan 28
and LMAO@believing Jordan never cussed on TV or in a game. :laugh:
In a way, i KIND OG agree with you NIK. However, two things.
1) Kobe had Shaq to get three chips.
2) Kobe has had three more years than MJ at this point in his career.
The true test for Kobe is what he does from this point FORWARD. Will he get 5 MVPs? 6 playoff MVP's? 3 more titles WITHOUT a dominant center? We'll see.
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Dominant center? In the East? LMAO.
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...And LMAO@Jordan being a more likeable person...Yea, as portrayed by the media.
But nothing is funnier than "the f word" though. ahahahahahaha.
I thought that him cursing that loud on a televised game was stupid as hell, there is no conversing with you though. Jordan>>>>>>>Kobe, nothing personal just facts.
That's a valid OPINION...As well as this:
Kobe 28 > Jordan 28
and LMAO@believing Jordan never cussed on TV or in a game. :laugh:
In a way, i KIND OG agree with you NIK. However, two things.
1) Kobe had Shaq to get three chips.
2) Kobe has had three more years than MJ at this point in his career.
The true test for Kobe is what he does from this point FORWARD. Will he get 5 MVPs? 6 playoff MVP's? 3 more titles WITHOUT a dominant center? We'll see.
Exactly, that's why it's hard to make a judgment now. It's gonna be impossible to say Kobe is better simply because his career is far from over.
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^^Jordan wouldn't have made it to that position to begin with if Kwame Brown was his starting center. :laugh:
Kobe won championships when Jordan was still in college. Kobe has range that Jordan dreamed of having. Kobe has had amazing individual performances which made Jordan's amazing individual performances seem that much less amazing...I mean, come on, do you think Jordan could outscore Dallas in 3 quarters? Or score 81 in a game? Or how 'bout the way Kobe beat Jordan's record of consecutive 50+ point games? He's also scored a lot more points by a younger age... If Jordan was able to do that sort of stuff, I believe te Bulls woulda rivaled the 60's Celtics for greatest decade in basketball...PeACe
I'm sure Jordan COULD do all of that if he had the teammates that Kobe had. Yeah, Kobe has had some great individual performances the last few years, but if Jordan had the same D-league teammates that Kobe had, he would have been more than capable. Jordan didn't HAVE to score 45 + for his team to win. Give it up though homie, Jordan is the GOAT no doubt about it, and it wont changing anytime soon. Plus, Jordan is a much more likeable person that Kobe, so that will affect how Kobe is percieved for the rest of his career. I mean shouting out the "f" word at the top of your lungs during a televised game is uncalled for and immature. Even Steven Jackson doesn't sink that low, and he's a real scumbag.
Jordan's record for attempted shots in one game is greater than Kobe's...There goes your theory. :D
In one game? Shit, i've already proved in one post, some times ago, that Jordan had a greater attempted shots per game stat for 3/4 of his career!!!!!! Not just for a single game..
The problem is, most of these cats really don't have basketball knowledge that extends that far back...In their minds, it's impossible to associate the name Jordan with anything negative, because they grew up HEARING about him, not watching. Jordan was not the prophet who could do no harm like he was painted out to be...PeACe