West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: teecee on May 29, 2007, 04:59:17 PM
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"On the Mark: The Kobe Rules" Mark Kriegel / FOXSports.com
"Three years ago, after trading the greatest center since Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak defended his remaining superstar. "The accusation that Kobe broke up this team is not true," said Kupchak.
With that in mind, I now find myself waiting for Kupchak to dispel any suggestion that Kobe is campaigning for his exile.
After all, the general manager labors under a construct that might be called The Kobe Rules. To be a Laker is to know that Kobe gets what Kobe wants. The state of the franchise is in large measure a result of his desire for a team to call his very own.
The Kobe Rules
It's another off-season, and Kobe is complaining again. Now he wants a new GM, even though the current one has been all-too-willing to concede to every one of Bryant's demands. What should the Lakers do? Tell us your thoughts.
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More coverage
Mark Kriegel's blog
Report: Kobe wants West back?
Some recent history: In 2004, following a 5-game loss to the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals, the Lakers traded Shaquille O'Neal. With that series in evidence, it seemed an odd choice. O'Neal had averaged 26.6 points on 63 percent shooting and almost 11 rebounds a game. Kobe Bryant, by contrast, played poorly through most of the series, scoring 22.6 a game on just 38 percent shooting. His success rate from behind the three-point line where he tried his chances with regularity was just 17 percent.
What's more, the Lakers' decision flew in the face of conventional wisdom, which regards the great big man as basketball's most rare and important commodity. Of course, by then the Lakers had dispatched with most forms of wisdom, conventional or otherwise. Kobe Bryant was sick and tired, in the words of his then and again coach, of being "a sidekick" to O'Neal. Hence, owner Jerry Buss, who loved Kobe more than he loved Shaq, exiled the big man. O'Neal went on to win a championship in Miami while the Lakers were left to perfect their skills at damage control, such as the aforementioned disclaimer Kupchak issued to the Chicago Sun-Times.
Now Kupchak for whom Kobe's wishes are commands faces banishment with but a year left on his contract. The other day Bryant informed the Los Angeles Times, yet again, of his displeasure with the way things have gone or not gone, actually this off-season. Kobe, like George Steinbrenner (who remains something of a bratty kid even as a septuagenarian) wants to win. He wants to win now. He wants to play for a guy who really wants to win. And like Steinbrenner, he has trouble moving on. Wouldn't you know it Kobe is just crazy about former Lakers GM Jerry West.
"I trust him completely," says Bryant, who doesn't want "people believing me to be bashing anybody. Mitch is a great guy."
Shaq did his part in the 2004 finals. And then Kobe got him traded. (Jeff Haynes / Getty Images)
Great guy? In this town, that's a benediction for the walking dead.
Of course, as Kobe likes to say, he has no real power. "All I can do is offer my thoughts," he tells the Times.
Besides, there are greater concerns out here than Mitch Kupchak. Residents of Los Angeles are experiencing a kind of mass sympathy pain, as Bryant is up against his biological clock. At 28, he has already played 9,000 more minutes than a comparably aged Michael Jordan. Though this comparison neglects the several seasons Jordan spent in college, the point is well taken. Kobe is judged in relation to Jordan.
The old Jordan Rules pale in relation to the Kobe Rules. Phil Jackson, who coached them both, once wrote that he'd never seen anybody receive more "allowances" from management than Bryant, who even whined about the aircraft the Lakers helped provide him with during hearings for the rape case that was eventually dropped.
Bryant is the most talented player in the game, and often the most exciting. But unlike Jordan, he's not the best, nor does he seem to make his teammates much better. This past season was a terrible disappointment for the Lakers. They had their injuries, sure, most notably the one to Lamar Odom's shoulder. But they are not bereft of talent, and with a playoff spot on the line, they managed to lose 8 of their last 12 games. That wouldn't happen with a Jordan team. Jordan could be calculating and cruel, but he commanded the respect and awe of his teammates in Chicago.
The reverence for Kobe is more prevalent among the Buss family than it is in the locker room. Kobe gets what Kobe wants even if he can't admit to wanting it.
So here he is with a team of his very own, and not much that can be done with it. Bryant makes almost $18 million a year. Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown both coming off surgery will take down more than $20 mil combined next season.
That's not to say there's no hope. After all, Jackson who once vowed to leave unless Kupchak traded Kobe was convinced, at the rate of $10 million per annum, to return to the Laker fold. So maybe Jerry West would come back, too, ace out his former protιgι, and make everything better.
Already, I can see Kobe's plan manifest itself. With West in place, Bryant could suggest that he really misses his old pal Shaquille.
Eventually, there'd be a big press conference to "welcome home" the big guy.
Jerry West would deny that Kobe had anything to do with it."
Shit like this is why peeps think Kobe is a bitch. Mitch backs him, and then Kobe sells him out in the media. The article IS right about one thing.........Kobe is the most talented and most exciting player in the league, but he isn't the best, and doesn't make anyone else better.
And i forgot how great Oneal played in their last series together, and how horrible Kobe was. Too bad Kobe and Shaq couldn't have put theri massive egos aside and won a couple of more chips.........i used to actually like the Lake show back then.
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"Some recent history: In 2004, following a 5-game loss to the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals, the Lakers traded Shaquille O'Neal. With that series in evidence, it seemed an odd choice. O'Neal had averaged 26.6 points on 63 percent shooting and almost 11 rebounds a game. Kobe Bryant, by contrast, played poorly through most of the series, scoring 22.6 a game on just 38 percent shooting. His success rate from behind the three-point line where he tried his chances with regularity was just 17 percent."
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laker-fans would never admit that. to them it's always kobe is misunderstood, quoted wrong, wrongly accused of rape and all that.
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laker-fans would never admit that. to them it's always kobe is misunderstood, quoted wrong, wrongly accused of rape and all that.
Oh I love your wacky and in your face posts.
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Some recent history: In 2004, following a 5-game loss to the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals, the Lakers traded Shaquille O'Neal. With that series in evidence, it seemed an odd choice. O'Neal had averaged 26.6 points on 63 percent shooting and almost 11 rebounds a game. Kobe Bryant, by contrast, played poorly through most of the series, scoring 22.6 a game on just 38 percent shooting. His success rate from behind the three-point line — where he tried his chances with regularity — was just 17 percent.
Shaq did his part in the 2004 finals. And then Kobe got him traded. (Jeff Haynes / Getty Images)
oh NIK, was it you that said shaq lost the finals for us? did you read that in some laker book, because i'm not the only one defending the fact that shaq did more than pull his weight.
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
no one is saying that. i was the one infact who said it was only kobe and shaq pulling any weight in that series , we got exploited everywhere else. NIK was the one shifting blame to one player
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
no one is saying that. i was the one infact who said it was only kobe and shaq pulling any weight in that series , we got exploited everywhere else. NIK was the one shifting blame to one player
NIK is a moron who doesn't deserve to be on the internet. Why even respond to him?
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
no one is saying that. i was the one infact who said it was only kobe and shaq pulling any weight in that series , we got exploited everywhere else. NIK was the one shifting blame to one player
NIK is a moron who doesn't deserve to be on the internet. Why even respond to him?
Someone is upset that they've been called out on being a Laker fan casual basketball fan who likes Kobe. :-X
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"On the Mark: The Kobe Rules" Mark Kriegel / FOXSports.com
"Three years ago, after trading the greatest center since Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Lakers general manager Mitch Kupchak defended his remaining superstar. "The accusation that Kobe broke up this team is not true," said Kupchak.
With that in mind, I now find myself waiting for Kupchak to dispel any suggestion that Kobe is campaigning for his exile.
After all, the general manager labors under a construct that might be called The Kobe Rules. To be a Laker is to know that Kobe gets what Kobe wants. The state of the franchise is in large measure a result of his desire for a team to call his very own.
The Kobe Rules
It's another off-season, and Kobe is complaining again. Now he wants a new GM, even though the current one has been all-too-willing to concede to every one of Bryant's demands. What should the Lakers do? Tell us your thoughts.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More coverage
Mark Kriegel's blog
Report: Kobe wants West back?
Some recent history: In 2004, following a 5-game loss to the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals, the Lakers traded Shaquille O'Neal. With that series in evidence, it seemed an odd choice. O'Neal had averaged 26.6 points on 63 percent shooting and almost 11 rebounds a game. Kobe Bryant, by contrast, played poorly through most of the series, scoring 22.6 a game on just 38 percent shooting. His success rate from behind the three-point line where he tried his chances with regularity was just 17 percent.
What's more, the Lakers' decision flew in the face of conventional wisdom, which regards the great big man as basketball's most rare and important commodity. Of course, by then the Lakers had dispatched with most forms of wisdom, conventional or otherwise. Kobe Bryant was sick and tired, in the words of his then and again coach, of being "a sidekick" to O'Neal. Hence, owner Jerry Buss, who loved Kobe more than he loved Shaq, exiled the big man. O'Neal went on to win a championship in Miami while the Lakers were left to perfect their skills at damage control, such as the aforementioned disclaimer Kupchak issued to the Chicago Sun-Times.
Now Kupchak for whom Kobe's wishes are commands faces banishment with but a year left on his contract. The other day Bryant informed the Los Angeles Times, yet again, of his displeasure with the way things have gone or not gone, actually this off-season. Kobe, like George Steinbrenner (who remains something of a bratty kid even as a septuagenarian) wants to win. He wants to win now. He wants to play for a guy who really wants to win. And like Steinbrenner, he has trouble moving on. Wouldn't you know it Kobe is just crazy about former Lakers GM Jerry West.
"I trust him completely," says Bryant, who doesn't want "people believing me to be bashing anybody. Mitch is a great guy."
Shaq did his part in the 2004 finals. And then Kobe got him traded. (Jeff Haynes / Getty Images)
Great guy? In this town, that's a benediction for the walking dead.
Of course, as Kobe likes to say, he has no real power. "All I can do is offer my thoughts," he tells the Times.
Besides, there are greater concerns out here than Mitch Kupchak. Residents of Los Angeles are experiencing a kind of mass sympathy pain, as Bryant is up against his biological clock. At 28, he has already played 9,000 more minutes than a comparably aged Michael Jordan. Though this comparison neglects the several seasons Jordan spent in college, the point is well taken. Kobe is judged in relation to Jordan.
The old Jordan Rules pale in relation to the Kobe Rules. Phil Jackson, who coached them both, once wrote that he'd never seen anybody receive more "allowances" from management than Bryant, who even whined about the aircraft the Lakers helped provide him with during hearings for the rape case that was eventually dropped.
Bryant is the most talented player in the game, and often the most exciting. But unlike Jordan, he's not the best, nor does he seem to make his teammates much better. This past season was a terrible disappointment for the Lakers. They had their injuries, sure, most notably the one to Lamar Odom's shoulder. But they are not bereft of talent, and with a playoff spot on the line, they managed to lose 8 of their last 12 games. That wouldn't happen with a Jordan team. Jordan could be calculating and cruel, but he commanded the respect and awe of his teammates in Chicago.
The reverence for Kobe is more prevalent among the Buss family than it is in the locker room. Kobe gets what Kobe wants even if he can't admit to wanting it.
So here he is with a team of his very own, and not much that can be done with it. Bryant makes almost $18 million a year. Lamar Odom and Kwame Brown both coming off surgery will take down more than $20 mil combined next season.
That's not to say there's no hope. After all, Jackson who once vowed to leave unless Kupchak traded Kobe was convinced, at the rate of $10 million per annum, to return to the Laker fold. So maybe Jerry West would come back, too, ace out his former protιgι, and make everything better.
Already, I can see Kobe's plan manifest itself. With West in place, Bryant could suggest that he really misses his old pal Shaquille.
Eventually, there'd be a big press conference to "welcome home" the big guy.
Jerry West would deny that Kobe had anything to do with it."
Shit like this is why peeps think Kobe is a bitch. Mitch backs him, and then Kobe sells him out in the media. The article IS right about one thing.........Kobe is the most talented and most exciting player in the league, but he isn't the best, and doesn't make anyone else better.
And i forgot how great Oneal played in their last series together, and how horrible Kobe was. Too bad Kobe and Shaq couldn't have put theri massive egos aside and won a couple of more chips.........i used to actually like the Lake show back then.
LMFAO! Then you wonder why people say your opinions are media-influenced...This guy clearly hates Kobe. Am I wrong on that? He's saying Kobe gets what he wants? ahahahahahaha. Kobe wanted Boozer, Kobe wanted Kidd, Kobe wanted Baron Davis, Kobe wanted Butler to stay, Kobe wanted etc. etc. etc...This is the most pathetic and inaccurate article I have read in quite some time. Kobe was clearly on an uprise while Shaq was on a decline from 2002 on. The fact that he fails to acknowledge this shows how one sided this article is...Jordan made his teammates better and Kobe didn't? Jordan woulda' never lost like Kobe did? ahahahaha....Someone please remind this board of Jordan's teams prior to Pippen's arrival. This guy also said Kobe isn't the best player in the league :laugh:...And to top it all off, Kobe NEVER said anything about disliking Mitch either. In fact, he backs up Mitch. Leave it to tecee to post articles like this, claim this is why people think Kobe's a bitch, then claim the media has no influence on his opinion whatsoever...LOL.
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laker-fans would never admit that. to them it's always kobe is misunderstood, quoted wrong, wrongly accused of rape and all that.
Never understand what? Explain what Kobe did wrong based on this typical media-made hate article...LOL.
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
no one is saying that. i was the one infact who said it was only kobe and shaq pulling any weight in that series , we got exploited everywhere else. NIK was the one shifting blame to one player
NIK is a moron who doesn't deserve to be on the internet. Why even respond to him?
Someone is upset that they've been called out on being a Laker fan casual basketball fan who likes Kobe. :-X
Upset? Lol lil Niky you give yourself too much credit. I could care less what you say about me. You're opinions hold no credit my bitch.
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Some recent history: In 2004, following a 5-game loss to the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals, the Lakers traded Shaquille O'Neal. With that series in evidence, it seemed an odd choice. O'Neal had averaged 26.6 points on 63 percent shooting and almost 11 rebounds a game. Kobe Bryant, by contrast, played poorly through most of the series, scoring 22.6 a game on just 38 percent shooting. His success rate from behind the three-point line where he tried his chances with regularity was just 17 percent.
Shaq did his part in the 2004 finals. And then Kobe got him traded. (Jeff Haynes / Getty Images)
oh NIK, was it you that said shaq lost the finals for us? did you read that in some laker book, because i'm not the only one defending the fact that shaq did more than pull his weight.
I never said Shaq fucked us in the finals, he fucked us in the long-run... but Ben Wallace DID have his card in that series. Anyone who denies this didn't watch.
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
no one is saying that. i was the one infact who said it was only kobe and shaq pulling any weight in that series , we got exploited everywhere else. NIK was the one shifting blame to one player
NIK is a moron who doesn't deserve to be on the internet. Why even respond to him?
Someone is upset that they've been called out on being a Laker fan casual basketball fan who likes Kobe. :-X
Upset? Lol lil Niky you give yourself too much credit. I could care less what you say about me. You're opinions hold no credit my bitch.
If you weren't upset, my nuts wouldn't be all up in your mouth in every other one of your posts in this section. What happened, woke up bloody today?
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LOL, Kobe absolutely put Mitch on blast. He can't ask for Jerry West to replace Kupchak and act like that's not a slap in the face of the man who supported him blindly. By Kobe saying he trusts West completely means that he doesn't trust Kupchak completely.
That's why Kobe is a bitch. Be a fucking man and say Kupchak ain't bringin us talent to win, we NEED Jerry West. Don't say you need Jerry West to make you a contender and then act like that's not what you're saying. Fuckin man up, quit half steppin. Kobe has bitch tendancies. He can hide them for a while but they always come out in the end.
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
no one is saying that. i was the one infact who said it was only kobe and shaq pulling any weight in that series , we got exploited everywhere else. NIK was the one shifting blame to one player
NIK is a moron who doesn't deserve to be on the internet. Why even respond to him?
Someone is upset that they've been called out on being a Laker fan casual basketball fan who likes Kobe. :-X
Upset? Lol lil Niky you give yourself too much credit. I could care less what you say about me. You're opinions hold no credit my bitch.
If you weren't upset, my nuts wouldn't be all up in your mouth in every other one of your posts in this section. What happened, woke up bloody today?
:o Congratulations Nickole. You finally made a response without mentioning the Lakers of your ever popular "net status" :raisetheroof:
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
no one is saying that. i was the one infact who said it was only kobe and shaq pulling any weight in that series , we got exploited everywhere else. NIK was the one shifting blame to one player
NIK is a moron who doesn't deserve to be on the internet. Why even respond to him?
Someone is upset that they've been called out on being a Laker fan casual basketball fan who likes Kobe. :-X
Why exactly is Gangsta Boogy not a diehard fan? Because he is unbiased, and not completely blinded by his love for his team? To be a real fan, you don't have to dickride............
And how the fuck is Kobe "backing up" Mitch Kupchak? Kobe is showing just how immature he is with his comments about the Lakers GM. I understand he is frustrated, but he has totally undermined Kupchaks authority and put the Lakers whole team in a bad situation.
Kobe is the most talented player in the league and should be the best player, but he is not a leader and not a team player. If he could check his ego, he would have 5 titles, 2 playoff MVP's, and life would be good.................
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LOL, Kobe absolutely put Mitch on blast. He can't ask for Jerry West to replace Kupchak and act like that's not a slap in the face of the man who supported him blindly. By Kobe saying he trusts West completely means that he doesn't trust Kupchak completely.
That's why Kobe is a bitch. Be a fucking man and say Kupchak ain't bringin us talent to win, we NEED Jerry West. Don't say you need Jerry West to make you a contender and then act like that's not what you're saying. Fuckin man up, quit half steppin. Kobe has bitch tendancies. He can hide them for a while but they always come out in the end.
He never asked to replace Mitch. ::) He asked to hire Jerry West...That can be as a consultant or ANYTHING. Kobe is a bitch for wanting Jerry West? LMAO. :stupid:
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
no one is saying that. i was the one infact who said it was only kobe and shaq pulling any weight in that series , we got exploited everywhere else. NIK was the one shifting blame to one player
NIK is a moron who doesn't deserve to be on the internet. Why even respond to him?
Someone is upset that they've been called out on being a Laker fan casual basketball fan who likes Kobe. :-X
Upset? Lol lil Niky you give yourself too much credit. I could care less what you say about me. You're opinions hold no credit my bitch.
If you weren't upset, my nuts wouldn't be all up in your mouth in every other one of your posts in this section. What happened, woke up bloody today?
:o Congratulations Nickole. You finally made a response without mentioning the Lakers of your ever popular "net status" :raisetheroof:
That was your "comeback"?
(http://www.dubcnn.com/connect/Themes/dubcc/images/post/thumbdown.gif)
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The Lakers were in no condition to play the Pistons in the 04 Finals. Too many internal issues, too many injuries, too man new players who didn't understand the triangle. The blame shouldn't all go to Shaq but it shouldn't all go to Kobe either.
no one is saying that. i was the one infact who said it was only kobe and shaq pulling any weight in that series , we got exploited everywhere else. NIK was the one shifting blame to one player
NIK is a moron who doesn't deserve to be on the internet. Why even respond to him?
Someone is upset that they've been called out on being a Laker fan casual basketball fan who likes Kobe. :-X
Why exactly is Gangsta Boogy not a diehard fan? Because he is unbiased, and not completely blinded by his love for his team? To be a real fan, you don't have to dickride............
And how the fuck is Kobe "backing up" Mitch Kupchak? Kobe is showing just how immature he is with his comments about the Lakers GM. I understand he is frustrated, but he has totally undermined Kupchaks authority and put the Lakers whole team in a bad situation.
Kobe is the most talented player in the league and should be the best player, but he is not a leader and not a team player. If he could check his ego, he would have 5 titles, 2 playoff MVP's, and life would be good.................
Why don't you make sense out of the situation. You do have a brain, correct? Kobe is trying to win, not diss anyone...You ask how is Kobe backing Mitch?
"I trust Mitch completely," says Bryant, " I don't people believing me to be bashing anybody. Mitch is a great guy."
LOL. Come on now. You know damn well what's going on. Kobe wants a contender around him, and the media will find any way to turn that into him being a "bitch". Then the haters go along with it, and it's a neverending cycle. Explain how Kobe could have 5 titles and 2 mvps with the (lack of) talent surrounding him? :loco:
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Some recent history: In 2004, following a 5-game loss to the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals, the Lakers traded Shaquille O'Neal. With that series in evidence, it seemed an odd choice. O'Neal had averaged 26.6 points on 63 percent shooting and almost 11 rebounds a game. Kobe Bryant, by contrast, played poorly through most of the series, scoring 22.6 a game on just 38 percent shooting. His success rate from behind the three-point line where he tried his chances with regularity was just 17 percent.
Shaq did his part in the 2004 finals. And then Kobe got him traded. (Jeff Haynes / Getty Images)
oh NIK, was it you that said shaq lost the finals for us? did you read that in some laker book, because i'm not the only one defending the fact that shaq did more than pull his weight.
I never said Shaq fucked us in the finals, he fucked us in the long-run... but Ben Wallace DID have his card in that series. Anyone who denies this didn't watch.
i don't understand how you can say that, shaq averaged 26.6 points with impecible field goal percentage. <-----that doesn't equal having anyone's card. the detroit backcourt had kobe's card more than the front court had shaq's , that's for damn sure. ben and elden provided the most effective defense on shaq but they never not once stopped him in that series. but like i said the lakers got beat mostly because of injuries, and the way they were able to exploit our weakness at the point, small and power forward positions. they beat us how teams are beating the lakers now.... make kobe win the game for you . they also denied entry to shaq (payton's/fisher's bad). They made fox, george, and horry non factors. they made malone bang in the post on a fucked up leg . you can't win with those conditions. you have a healthy malone and you have a 4th championship in LA in the shaq kobe era though, you have at least 3 players on the floor that dominate at their position you can't be stopped. the lakers only had 2 , and were totally overmatched.
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Some recent history: In 2004, following a 5-game loss to the Detroit Pistons in the NBA Finals, the Lakers traded Shaquille O'Neal. With that series in evidence, it seemed an odd choice. O'Neal had averaged 26.6 points on 63 percent shooting and almost 11 rebounds a game. Kobe Bryant, by contrast, played poorly through most of the series, scoring 22.6 a game on just 38 percent shooting. His success rate from behind the three-point line where he tried his chances with regularity was just 17 percent.
Shaq did his part in the 2004 finals. And then Kobe got him traded. (Jeff Haynes / Getty Images)
oh NIK, was it you that said shaq lost the finals for us? did you read that in some laker book, because i'm not the only one defending the fact that shaq did more than pull his weight.
I never said Shaq fucked us in the finals, he fucked us in the long-run... but Ben Wallace DID have his card in that series. Anyone who denies this didn't watch.
i don't understand how you can say that, shaq averaged 26.6 points with impecible field goal percentage. <-----that doesn't equal having anyone's card. the detroit backcourt had kobe's card more than the front court had shaq's , that's for damn sure. ben and elden provided the most effective defense on shaq but they never not once stopped him in that series. but like i said the lakers got beat mostly because of injuries, and the way they were able to exploit our weakness at the point, small and power forward positions. they beat us how teams are beating the lakers now.... make kobe win the game for you . they also denied entry to shaq (payton's/fisher's bad). They made fox, george, and horry non factors. they made malone bang in the post on a fucked up leg . you can't win with those conditions. you have a healthy malone and you have a 4th championship in LA in the shaq kobe era though, you have at least 3 players on the floor that dominate at their position you can't be stopped. the lakers only had 2 , and were totally overmatched.
Big deal, 26.6 points, that's still his lowest average in a finals series and isn't the dominant Shaq we're used to. Ben simply outplayed him on the defensive end. Not saying it's Shaq's fault, but Shaq did constantly put us in positions where we couldn't win due to his lack of work ethic and declining will. The Detroit series is only a small fraction of what was going on.
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lol 26.6 is BAAAAAD shows no work ethic?? !!?? lol, he was playing on a team with kobe bryant , gary payton and karl malone,lol. he was shooting over 60%!!!! 60 % how was he getting dominated on the defensive end by ben wallace? with those numbers , with that age, with that situation with that defense that is vintage shaq. period point blank also that is a higher average than his regular season average, so you can not say he didn't step it up. like i said , the lakers didn't lose because of shaq, they lost because of injury and bad contigency match ups at 3 key positions. 3 beats 2 every time.
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lol 26.6 is BAAAAAD shows no work ethic?? !!?? lol, he was playing on a team with kobe bryant , gary payton and karl malone,lol. he was shooting over 60%!!!! 60 % how was he getting dominated on the defensive end by ben wallace? with those numbers , with that age, with that situation with that defense that is vintage shaq. period point blank also that is a higher average than his regular season average, so you can not say he didn't step it up. like i said , the lakers didn't lose because of shaq, they lost because of injury and bad contigency match ups at 3 key positions. 3 beats 2 every time.
Once again, I never said we lost in the FINALS because of Shaq...Shaq helped us lose out in the long run. What coulda' been 6+ titles was only 3, and I believe 100% that it's due to Shaq's work ethic and lack of conditioning + excuses for time off during "company time"...PeACe
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let's get something straight here ,because it's becoming more and more evident with this whole kobe situation. we can now conclude that the problem all along was jerry buss, shaq saw this and that's why he acted out the way he did. much like how kobe is doing right now. blame , maybe unfairly was shifted all toward kobe, however i see where the problem started, shaq was starting to feel neglected by and ignored by jerry buss. KOBE was his new crown jewel, but lets face it kobe was still ON THE VERGE of becoming the leader, he wasn't (and still isn't ready) to be the leader of that organization (like magic and kareem) jerry buss was shifting toward a premature shift of power. Shaq, the 3 time finals MVP wasn't ready and wasn't in need to step down just yet, as you saw in miami he didn't hand over power til last season, when the time was right. Shaq rebeled like most people as important to an organization would and made such high demands, to see where Buss was standing with him and kobe, jerry buss obviously chose kobe over shaq. shaq hated this ideal of favoritism, and took out his frustration on the organization.....much how kobe is now. this created tension between kobe and shaq and you can see now that all that needed to happen was reassurance from management that they wanted both players on the team, not just one. i've been saying this all along. they could have made shaq happy without overpaying him....all he wanted was respect from Dr. buss. all of buss's respect was for kobe, bad business DOCTOR. They could have Paid kobe what kobe wanted and kept him with the lakers and kept shaq on the condition of a switch of power within the next few years, realistically this would have been last season, Kobe OBVIOUSLY would have benefitted like wade has been with his emence skill and the other players on the team would benefit from shaq's presence and leadership skill, the only thing changing would be the offense would run through kobe. it's unfortunate DR. Buss couldn't show his players the respect to keep both in town, now he's facing a situation where he'll have neither of them , what a fucking shame. i'm still not a big kobe fan but i can now sympathise with him wanting a trade. management FUCKED up since Jerry west left. Magic needs to become majority owner and reshape this organization. I'm not big on any of the buss's right now except maybe Geanie because she's the only thing keeping phil jackson there if you think about. we need change in this organization and we need it NOW, bring back West or someone else besides mitch no ball Cup-check.
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let's get something straight here ,because it's becoming more and more evident with this whole kobe situation. we can now conclude that the problem all along was jerry buss, shaq saw this and that's why he acted out the way he did. much like how kobe is doing right now. blame , maybe unfairly was shifted all toward kobe, however i see where the problem started, shaq was starting to feel neglected by and ignored by jerry buss. KOBE was his new crown jewel, but lets face it kobe was still ON THE VERGE of becoming the leader, he wasn't (and still isn't ready) to be the leader of that organization (like magic and kareem) jerry buss was shifting toward a premature shift of power. Shaq, the 3 time finals MVP wasn't ready and wasn't in need to step down just yet, as you saw in miami he didn't hand over power til last season, when the time was right. Shaq rebeled like most people as important to an organization would and made such high demands, to see where Buss was standing with him and kobe, jerry buss obviously chose kobe over shaq. shaq hated this ideal of favoritism, and took out his frustration on the organization.....much how kobe is now. this created tension between kobe and shaq and you can see now that all that needed to happen was reassurance from management that they wanted both players on the team, not just one. i've been saying this all along. they could have made shaq happy without overpaying him....all he wanted was respect from Dr. buss. all of buss's respect was for kobe, bad business DOCTOR. They could have Paid kobe what kobe wanted and kept him with the lakers and kept shaq on the condition of a switch of power within the next few years, realistically this would have been last season, Kobe OBVIOUSLY would have benefitted like wade has been with his emence skill and the other players on the team would benefit from shaq's presence and leadership skill, the only thing changing would be the offense would run through kobe. it's unfortunate DR. Buss couldn't show his players the respect to keep both in town, now he's facing a situation where he'll have neither of them , what a fucking shame. i'm still not a big kobe fan but i can now sympathise with him wanting a trade. management FUCKED up since Jerry west left. Magic needs to become majority owner and reshape this organization. I'm not big on any of the buss's right now except maybe Geanie because she's the only thing keeping phil jackson there if you think about. we need change in this organization and we need it NOW, bring back West or someone else besides mitch no ball Cup-check.
Dude, Shaq is still a major part of the problem, considering he acted like a little bitch towards the Lakers to begin with. Refusing to condition, refusing an NBA diet to keep in shape, refusing to work in practice, refusing to negotiate his contract and demanding an insane amount (going as far as yelling "pay me, mtuthafucka" to Buss in a pre-season game), refusing to operate and nurse injuries on his own time, refusing to rebound and play defense if the offense doesn't run through him, etc....The Kobe situation has only proven that Kobe had no involvement, not that Shaq wasn't to blame for what happened. That said, I am totally against the way Jerry Buss has alienated players for some time now. When you have a guy like that workin with an immature baby like Shaq, shit is bound to clash...PeACe
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
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Shaq's departure = End of a dynasty
8)
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
Hey, when LA had Shaq they were dangerous. He leaves and they aren't dangerous anymore. Kobe is great, but the team isn't. If he hadn't bitched about anything, the dynasty would still be intact. Besides, an aging Shaq is still better than every other big man on the Lakers team.
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
idividual differences. all players are different, dennis rodman , hello?!. point is , if jerry buss was a good manager/owner would he have the best players in the league demanding trades? remember it's shaq who asked for the trade due to MANAGEMENT, it's KOBE asking for a trade due to MANAGEMENT.
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
Hey, when LA had Shaq they were dangerous. He leaves and they aren't dangerous anymore. Kobe is great, but the team isn't. If he hadn't bitched about anything, the dynasty would still be intact. Besides, an aging Shaq is still better than every other big man on the Lakers team.
He's not the only one who left. LOL. Lakers in 04-05 were an expansion team. And they started from scratch in 06-07 again. Not comparable to the Laker dynasty.
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
difference is shaq can come to a team a la orlando and make a difference right away Orlando 1992. Los Angeles 1996 . Miami 2004. shaq's been through bad management and coaching before but he still won playoff series in less than three years of being within a team.
check game:
Orlando Magic:
before shaq- 1991-1992 =21-61, .463
rookie year : 1992-1993 = 41-41, .500 ....+20 wins
second year: 1993-1994= 50-32, .610......+9 wins, playoffs first round
third year: 1994-1995=57-25, .695...........+7 wins, NBA Finals (lost to legendary rocket team)
fourth year: 1995-1996= 60-22, .732..........+3 wins, Conf Finals ( Lost to legendary champion bulls)
after shaq: 1996-1997= 45-37, .549.............-15 wins, first round
second year: 1997 -1998=41 -41, .500...........-4 wins
lock out year: 1999-2000= 41-41, .500............first round
where does that look familiar? before shaq mediocre-no success, with shaq much much much success, after shaq gradual slide to becoming mediocre and first round exits- no playoffs.
again you have good management behind shaq you don't have lax attitude.
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
difference is shaq can come to a team a la orlando and make a difference right away Orlando 1992. Los Angeles 1996 . Miami 2004. shaq's been through bad management and coaching before but he still won playoff series in less than three years of being within a team.
check game:
Orlando Magic:
before shaq- 1991-1992 =21-61, .463
rookie year : 1992-1993 = 41-41, .500 ....+20 wins
second year: 1993-1994= 50-32, .610......+9 wins, playoffs first round
third year: 1994-1995=57-25, .695...........+7 wins, NBA Finals (lost to legendary rocket team)
fourth year: 1995-1996= 60-22, .732..........+3 wins, Conf Finals ( Lost to legendary champion bulls)
after shaq: 1996-1997= 45-37, .549.............-15 wins, first round
second year: 1997 -1998=41 -41, .500...........-4 wins
lock out year: 1999-2000= 41-41, .500............first round
where does that look familiar? before shaq mediocre-no success, with shaq much much much success, after shaq gradual slide to becoming mediocre and first round exits- no playoffs.
again you have good management behind shaq you don't have lax attitude.
All of Shaq's succesful teams have been built to win. In some cases, he was even the 2nd option...PeACe
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
Hey, when LA had Shaq they were dangerous. He leaves and they aren't dangerous anymore. Kobe is great, but the team isn't. If he hadn't bitched about anything, the dynasty would still be intact. Besides, an aging Shaq is still better than every other big man on the Lakers team.
He's not the only one who left. LOL. Lakers in 04-05 were an expansion team. And they started from scratch in 06-07 again. Not comparable to the Laker dynasty.
malone could've stayed one more year....why didn't he?
fisher could've.....why didn't he?
fox could've stayed......why didn't he?
gary payton could've stayed .....why didn't he?
phil jackson could've stayed .....why didn't he
not because of shaq...
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
Hey, when LA had Shaq they were dangerous. He leaves and they aren't dangerous anymore. Kobe is great, but the team isn't. If he hadn't bitched about anything, the dynasty would still be intact. Besides, an aging Shaq is still better than every other big man on the Lakers team.
He's not the only one who left. LOL. Lakers in 04-05 were an expansion team. And they started from scratch in 06-07 again. Not comparable to the Laker dynasty.
malone could've stayed one more year....why didn't he?
fisher could've.....why didn't he?
fox could've stayed......why didn't he?
gary payton could've stayed .....why didn't he?
phil jackson could've stayed .....why didn't he
not because of shaq...
Malone hit on Kobe's wife
Fisher got bigger money
Fox retired
Payton wanted to stay and was traded
Phil wasn't brought back
;)
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
difference is shaq can come to a team a la orlando and make a difference right away Orlando 1992. Los Angeles 1996 . Miami 2004. shaq's been through bad management and coaching before but he still won playoff series in less than three years of being within a team.
check game:
Orlando Magic:
before shaq- 1991-1992 =21-61, .463
rookie year : 1992-1993 = 41-41, .500 ....+20 wins
second year: 1993-1994= 50-32, .610......+9 wins, playoffs first round
third year: 1994-1995=57-25, .695...........+7 wins, NBA Finals (lost to legendary rocket team)
fourth year: 1995-1996= 60-22, .732..........+3 wins, Conf Finals ( Lost to legendary champion bulls)
after shaq: 1996-1997= 45-37, .549.............-15 wins, first round
second year: 1997 -1998=41 -41, .500...........-4 wins
lock out year: 1999-2000= 41-41, .500............first round
where does that look familiar? before shaq mediocre-no success, with shaq much much much success, after shaq gradual slide to becoming mediocre and first round exits- no playoffs.
again you have good management behind shaq you don't have lax attitude.
All of Shaq's succesful teams have been built to win. In some cases, he was even the 2nd option...PeACe
the 1992-1993 orlando magic was built to win? all they really did was add shaq and they automatically won 20 more games , after they lost the man in 1996-1997 (an almost identical core team mind you ) they lost 15 more. lol i love how you ignore shaq's impact on a team.
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
Hey, when LA had Shaq they were dangerous. He leaves and they aren't dangerous anymore. Kobe is great, but the team isn't. If he hadn't bitched about anything, the dynasty would still be intact. Besides, an aging Shaq is still better than every other big man on the Lakers team.
He's not the only one who left. LOL. Lakers in 04-05 were an expansion team. And they started from scratch in 06-07 again. Not comparable to the Laker dynasty.
malone could've stayed one more year....why didn't he?
fisher could've.....why didn't he?
fox could've stayed......why didn't he?
gary payton could've stayed .....why didn't he?
phil jackson could've stayed .....why didn't he
not because of shaq...
Malone hit on Kobe's wife
Fisher got bigger money
Fox retired
Payton wanted to stay and was traded
Phil wasn't brought back
;)
so malone retired because he hit on kobe's wife?
fisher couldn't of taken less money to stay with the lakers and win (lol over golden state)
fox was actually traded with payton to boston, THEN retired
why was payton traded, i'd rather have him running the point than chucky atkins/smush parker
why wasn't phil brought back, he's obviously the best coach in the league.
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
Hey, when LA had Shaq they were dangerous. He leaves and they aren't dangerous anymore. Kobe is great, but the team isn't. If he hadn't bitched about anything, the dynasty would still be intact. Besides, an aging Shaq is still better than every other big man on the Lakers team.
He's not the only one who left. LOL. Lakers in 04-05 were an expansion team. And they started from scratch in 06-07 again. Not comparable to the Laker dynasty.
malone could've stayed one more year....why didn't he?
fisher could've.....why didn't he?
fox could've stayed......why didn't he?
gary payton could've stayed .....why didn't he?
phil jackson could've stayed .....why didn't he
not because of shaq...
Malone hit on Kobe's wife
Fisher got bigger money
Fox retired
Payton wanted to stay and was traded
Phil wasn't brought back
;)
so malone retired because he hit on kobe's wife?
fisher couldn't of taken less money to stay with the lakers and win (lol over golden state)
fox was actually traded with payton to boston, THEN retired
why was payton traded, i'd rather have him running the point than chucky atkins/smush parker
why wasn't phil brought back, he's obviously the best coach in the league.
Yes, Malone was actually very down with Kobe and was returning to the Lakers until the incident.
Fisher wanted to stay with LA. He was begging. Didn't want a major pay-cut.
Fox was retiring anyways. Major injury problems towards the end of his career. LMAO@you pinning that on Kobe.
Payton was traded to obtain Mihm, due to desperate need for a big man. Payton re-signed, THEN was traded. He was pissed at the Lakers for that.
Management wasn't willing to negotiate his contract.
Stop tryna blame everything on Kobe, bro. Don't you see that it looks more pathetic than the media?
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you just said it, jerry buss is alienating his players, do you think that if he wasn't doing that , a player like shaq wouldn't have been doing the things he was doing? situation determines behavior.
Shaq=immature/lazy. Showing up to camp fat and out of shape, rarely conditioning, and not keeping an NBA diet, while purposely missing company time has nothing to do with him being alienated. Do you see Kobe (or anyone else for that matter) doing that? Point proven. ;)
And yet, with all the bad things Shaq did, he still led the team to 4 finals appearances and 3 titles...and Kobe, with his perfect team-first attitude, dedication to his team and his wife, can't even win a playoff series.
Sorry, but give me an out of shape Shaq that get my team to the Finals than a guy that can't make it past the first round.
Yea, because everyone knows the teams Shaq led and the teams Kobe led have been equal. LMAO again.
Hey, when LA had Shaq they were dangerous. He leaves and they aren't dangerous anymore. Kobe is great, but the team isn't. If he hadn't bitched about anything, the dynasty would still be intact. Besides, an aging Shaq is still better than every other big man on the Lakers team.
He's not the only one who left. LOL. Lakers in 04-05 were an expansion team. And they started from scratch in 06-07 again. Not comparable to the Laker dynasty.
malone could've stayed one more year....why didn't he?
fisher could've.....why didn't he?
fox could've stayed......why didn't he?
gary payton could've stayed .....why didn't he?
phil jackson could've stayed .....why didn't he
not because of shaq...
Malone hit on Kobe's wife
Fisher got bigger money
Fox retired
Payton wanted to stay and was traded
Phil wasn't brought back
;)
so malone retired because he hit on kobe's wife?
fisher couldn't of taken less money to stay with the lakers and win (lol over golden state)
fox was actually traded with payton to boston, THEN retired
why was payton traded, i'd rather have him running the point than chucky atkins/smush parker
why wasn't phil brought back, he's obviously the best coach in the league.
Yes, Malone was actually very down with Kobe and was returning to the Lakers until the incident.
Fisher wanted to stay with LA. He was begging. Didn't want a major pay-cut.
Fox was retiring anyways. Major injury problems towards the end of his career. LMAO@you pinning that on Kobe.
Payton was traded to obtain Mihm, due to desperate need for a big man. Payton re-signed, THEN was traded. He was pissed at the Lakers for that.
Management wasn't willing to negotiate his contract.
Stop tryna blame everything on Kobe, bro. Don't you see that it looks more pathetic than the media?
-actually that's not why he retired, he couldn't sustain another season on that leg and was too burnt out, read some artciles on his retirement, he coulda won with horry in san antonio if it was about kobe's wife,lol but seriously, if management was better we could've had malone for anther year regardless of a comment to his 'precious' vanessa or not (mind you he cheated on vanessa so how big of a deal was it that malone hit on her)
-and actually if it was about money then fisher could've stayed , the lakers traded payton anyway but didn't do so until after he exercised his 5.4 million for the next season. fisher left right after payton exercised that, because of PLAYING time, he thought he was going to have to stay on the bench again and average 7 points palying behind payton. Fisher could've stayed and got paid , but again management let two point guards go to the way side and we're left with smush parker and mckie,lol.
-rick fox didn't want to play of boston, he was still capable of playing, very capable, more than capable than who we had, and what did fox get for his years of help, he gets delt back to the team he HATED. what kind of shit is that? so instead of giving either team the benefit , he asked the celtics to waive him in order for him to retire.
-again about payton, you either keep him or fisher you don't get rid of both, and create a weakness at center AND at point guard, what an idiotic move by management
i'm not really blaming kobe in any of this
however you keep shaq and none of this happens
you keep shaq, and you probably get a healthy malone for one more season
you keep shaq and you get at least fisher or payton for one or two more seasons
you keep shaq and you don't need to trade for mihm
you keep shaq and you get that "big baby" to voice a poweful protest about not keeping jackson
but management is stupid and that they thought hey we'll keep kobe but...
we'll get rid of phil
we'll trade shaq
we'll let fisher go and trade payton and fox for chris mihm ( :laugh: yeah that's a good deal)
we'll let malone retire
we'll get an old floppy divac
what a bunch of dumb fucks, that's why i never liked mitch cup-check, he has no balls and no brains.
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Management coulda' gone about things differently, but Malone WAS returning before what happened. Fox announced his retirement at the beginning of the '03-'04 season. The Payton trade wasn't bad. AND the Lakers COULDN'T pay Fisher the contract he was demanding...The fact that we're losing isn't because we traded Shaq. ANYONE can see that.