West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: StevenQBosell on June 02, 2007, 09:37:38 AM
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NWA's STar8 Outta Compton, Eazy Duz It, Niggaz4Life, DOC's No One Can Do It Better...
And in the most recent era, it's The Chronic, Doggystyle, and 2001....
Do any of yall feel that dre will EVER produce anybody top to bottom again, circa 1993 Doggystyle?
What's the closest Dre has gotten to producing an artist whole album, in the past years?
On a side note, I would have loved to hear the Wash soundtrack, how it was originally intended... a Snoop and Dre break up to make up album.
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considering even detox is unlikely to be all dre productions then probably not. then again there's a lot of debate about where credit is due for those other releases...
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doubt it
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Wasnt the album for Hittman allmost only gonna be dre productions?
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No way in hell will Dre ever produce somebody's album top to bottom again.
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he's too big to do it along with all the other produces but in terms of number of produces i think less is more. it creates like a feel throughout the album that you can't achieve with every track produced by someone different.
lord finesse produced the message in the booklet so even dre admits he didn't produce all of 2001 but it's close to all being dre produced.
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lord finesse produced the message in the booklet so even dre admits he didn't produce all of 2001 but it's close to all being dre produced.
True, I remember reading that in the liner notes.
I wonder who the next producer will be, where we will anticipate an album produced by just this one individual.
Goddamn, I wish Dre and Cube would get together with Dre producing it top to bottom.... oh well, pipedreams galore, right?
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Well if you've got 200,000-400,000 to spend specifically for a beat, I dont see why he wouldnt. ::)
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Werent any of Eminem's albums?
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To be honest, I was surprised Jay-Z was able to gte him to mix every track on his last album. Money talks though...
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doubt it, but even though Detox will be his last album, he said that he wasnt gonna stop producing after it coz he loves it too much to retire, if he did produce a whole album top to bottom, that person either has to be super rich or someone like snoop, eminem who are close to dre. would love a reunion nwa album but i dont see that happenin. Em's Encore would be the most recent with the most dre productions? he did like just under half the songs didnt he, cant be fucked lookin at the vault
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how much of bishop lamonts is he doing?
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how much of bishop lamonts is he doing?
Probably 1/3. But supposedly Bishops getting Storch and Dre to produce the whole of his second album. Would be sick if its true.
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Fuck Dre nowadays, there's lots of better producers, check for some down south cats like Manni Fresh, DJ Paul & Juicy J etc.
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no because interscope executive thinks that u need a different producer on every song to achieve success
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Personally, I don't even think it's about money. I can't explain why I feel he wouldn't produce an albu from top to bottom...but I feel that he wouldn't do it, even if he was offered the money by someone else.
With Detox...I'm sure he'll be at least co-producing every song. But as it's already been said, there's been speculation to how much he "produced" since Chronic, and it really depends on what definition you give it. If you'd say that he produced Doggystyle entirely, even with Warren and Daz coming up with a few of the original melodies and Dre "producing" the entire song with all the other elements...then that might be possible. But if you feel that he didn't entirely produce that album by himself, or even 2001 because of the musicians he had on there...then of course, it's completely impossible. In my opinion, he produced Doggystyle and 2001 (aside from The Message), even though I'm sure there were songs that he really just mixed or added a few sounds to, and may not have had anything to do with the initial creation process on them.
Being a producer though, I really want to see how some of those beats were created from start to finish, with the other musicians and everyone else working on them.
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On every type of music except rap, a producer is expected to gets the sounds & shapes the direction of the session while the artist brings in the initial song idea. It may consist of just a verse and chorus & a chord progression with the producer helping shape it and write additional parts, or a fully realized idea with the producer just adding a few bells & whistles and making sure the shit's coming out straight.
One thing I hardly ever see anyone talk about on here is the producers job to bring out the best in an artist. I've heard alot of dope beats from other producers, sometimes very "Dre like" beats where an artist is just spitting boring, uninspired shit. It seems to me that the producer can't control, or is so happy to have a big shit star in the studio, that they just let them have free reign. You never hear that on a Dre production. That's what it's all about IMO, bringing out the best in an artist..... REAL producing.
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He would if he could. :P
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Fuck Dre nowadays, there's lots of better producers, check for some down south cats like Manni Fresh, DJ Paul & Juicy J etc.
???
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True.
In a sense: Hip hop producer is to rapper as Movie director is to actor.
Remember that for the SATs all you young bucks. 8)
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Werent any of Eminem's albums?
No cause Em produced a few tracks himself on each of his albums.
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Fuck Dre nowadays, there's lots of better producers, check for some down south cats like Manni Fresh, DJ Paul & Juicy J etc.
???
What is so unclear about what i said? I don't think it has any double meaning. Take it how you want though.
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Fuck Dre nowadays, there's lots of better producers, check for some down south cats like Manni Fresh, DJ Paul & Juicy J etc.
I've heard alot of work from all the cats you name here, and seriously their drums are TIRED. They got those tappy tappy program drums that reminds me of when black kids in high school would make beats tapping their pens/pencils against desks when they were bored in class. but outside of drums, those cats is ok/aight imo. definitely ain't dre.
anyway, all that ruthless shit/doggstyle/chronic etc. IS all dre. despite who did the musical ideas/work(who should credited, i think, no doubt) dre coordinates it all and gives it context(as well as coaxing the performance out of the vocalist, which most producers don't do), as well as giving it that crisp clear sound.
can't beliece dre mixed that whole Jay album.
anyway, it's still in him, but let me put it this way: as long as other artists desire for him to appear vocally on music he will not produce whole albums. Look at quincy jones...how old was he when thriller and off the wall were made? a couple years older than dre.
Quincy Jones was FIFTY when he produced THRILLER. Imagine what Dre will be producing at age 50? Dear christ.
Noone was asking for a hot trumpet line or verse from Quincy when he was 50l, but they sure as hell wanted his input on the album. Dre will be as focused in his late 40's/early 50's I bet.
anyway, the possible impossible is said to be produced by dre, storch and mel-man...that should be sick if it happens, which it won't.
-T
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Well if you've got 200,000-400,000 to spend specifically for a beat, I dont see why he wouldnt. ::)
Lol forreal. Even if an artist is signed to Aftermath thats still a lot of fuckin money for him to do the album.
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I don't want to hate on Dre, but really, I don't think Dre could produce a good album, top to bottom, 16 tracks. He's a ringer, like Storch. He's just a name now. Sure Dre can produce a full album if his name is on the cover, like 2001, or Detox (hopefully), but could you honestly see 16 Dre produced tracks for 50 or Stat, or Em. I don't think Dre could pull it off.
Thats why Quik, IMO, is a great producer. How many near classic albums has Quik produced top to bottom for his friends, 5, 6, 7? Quik can easily make a quality album top to bottom. A 16 track Dre produced album doesn't have the same appeal as it did 15 years ago. Dre tracks stick out, you look for them, you expect everyone to be perfect, but 16 perfect tracks, no one in music can pull off.
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Fuck Dre nowadays, there's lots of better producers, check for some down south cats like Manni Fresh, DJ Paul & Juicy J etc.
I've heard alot of work from all the cats you name here, and seriously their drums are TIRED. They got those tappy tappy program drums that reminds me of when black kids in high school would make beats tapping their pens/pencils against desks when they were bored in class. but outside of drums, those cats is ok/aight imo. definitely ain't dre.
anyway, all that ruthless shit/doggstyle/chronic etc. IS all dre. despite who did the musical ideas/work(who should credited, i think, no doubt) dre coordinates it all and gives it context(as well as coaxing the performance out of the vocalist, which most producers don't do), as well as giving it that crisp clear sound.
can't beliece dre mixed that whole Jay album.
anyway, it's still in him, but let me put it this way: as long as other artists desire for him to appear vocally on music he will not produce whole albums. Look at quincy jones...how old was he when thriller and off the wall were made? a couple years older than dre.
Quincy Jones was FIFTY when he produced THRILLER. Imagine what Dre will be producing at age 50? Dear christ.
Noone was asking for a hot trumpet line or verse from Quincy when he was 50l, but they sure as hell wanted his input on the album. Dre will be as focused in his late 40's/early 50's I bet.
anyway, the possible impossible is said to be produced by dre, storch and mel-man...that should be sick if it happens, which it won't.
-T
I have to disagree with you T, i got respect for you, and your opinion, but all Dre does is take the credit from someone else who deserves it more.
If Dre acknowledged Daz and Warren G's work on The Chronic and Doggystyle, then they both would have a much bigger status in the industry nowadays. Tell me where are they at now?
Daz is grindin' independantly and i haven't heard of Warren G in a while now. Dre is a fool, he let someone else come up with ideas, make a beat and/or play instruments, and then mixes it and say he produced it. That's fuckin stealing other people's work.
And @ the producers i named, i can see you're not really a big fan of them, but i take a DJ Paul & Juicy J beta nowadays over a Dr. Dre beat. Come on, what is the last good Dre beat you heard? Last songs he produced (Young Buck, Jay-Z, Snoop etc.) were aight, but nothing new or groundbreaking, i would call them "tired" as well.
It's cool you have a different taste though, it is the reason we can discuss it and talk about it, so that's ok with me. +1
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Fuck Dre nowadays, there's lots of better producers, check for some down south cats like Manni Fresh, DJ Paul & Juicy J etc.
I've heard alot of work from all the cats you name here, and seriously their drums are TIRED. They got those tappy tappy program drums that reminds me of when black kids in high school would make beats tapping their pens/pencils against desks when they were bored in class. but outside of drums, those cats is ok/aight imo. definitely ain't dre.
anyway, all that ruthless shit/doggstyle/chronic etc. IS all dre. despite who did the musical ideas/work(who should credited, i think, no doubt) dre coordinates it all and gives it context(as well as coaxing the performance out of the vocalist, which most producers don't do), as well as giving it that crisp clear sound.
can't beliece dre mixed that whole Jay album.
anyway, it's still in him, but let me put it this way: as long as other artists desire for him to appear vocally on music he will not produce whole albums. Look at quincy jones...how old was he when thriller and off the wall were made? a couple years older than dre.
Quincy Jones was FIFTY when he produced THRILLER. Imagine what Dre will be producing at age 50? Dear christ.
Noone was asking for a hot trumpet line or verse from Quincy when he was 50l, but they sure as hell wanted his input on the album. Dre will be as focused in his late 40's/early 50's I bet.
anyway, the possible impossible is said to be produced by dre, storch and mel-man...that should be sick if it happens, which it won't.
-T
I have to disagree with you T, i got respect for you, and your opinion, but all Dre does is take the credit from someone else who deserves it more.
If Dre acknowledged Daz and Warren G's work on The Chronic and Doggystyle, then they both would have a much bigger status in the industry nowadays. Tell me where are they at now?
Daz is grindin' independantly and i haven't heard of Warren G in a while now. Dre is a fool, he let someone else come up with ideas, make a beat and/or play instruments, and then mixes it and say he produced it. That's fuckin stealing other people's work.
And @ the producers i named, i can see you're not really a big fan of them, but i take a DJ Paul & Juicy J beta nowadays over a Dr. Dre beat. Come on, what is the last good Dre beat you heard? Last songs he produced (Young Buck, Jay-Z, Snoop etc.) were aight, but nothing new or groundbreaking, i would call them "tired" as well.
It's cool you have a different taste though, it is the reason we can discuss it and talk about it, so that's ok with me. +1
of course man, +1
anyway, I really like those new Game tracks he did like wonderful life.
I also like murder these murderers and the other piano/string stuff he is doing lately and I feel it's very new and very much his.
anyway, every producer uses musicians ideas. if they didn't they would be called musicians and not producers. they coordinate it all, and make sure everyone involved makes the shit come out right.
to me the definition of a producer can best be explained like this: listen to a demo of a song that an artist records: the melody is there, the lyrics are there. the basic song is there, but the polished final studio version of the track will be quite different and more conventionally presentable in a more universally digestible form. Producer didn't add music to it, didn't rewrite the lyrics or anything...but they made it come out right. dre doesn't claim to do anything more than that.
dre gave plenty of shine to daz and warren g and he gave warren g beats two leftover doggystyle beats for regulate...g-funk era and gave warren g the credit for them, despite the fact that dre probably had something to do with it.
alot of cats think dre ghost produced some of dogg food as well.
there's 2 sides to all that.
-T
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^^ good post! also i have to laugh at the argument that dre stole daz's work for doggystyle and the chronic when its quite clear and has been mentioned by snoop that dre was heavily involved in the making of "doggfood". you must be a smuck if you cant hear dre on that record.
also i agree with tanj its the final "mix" that sepeartes dre form the likes of daz and other hot produces his sound is so polished and so many years ahead of the likes of the producers mentioned earlier. also if daz was so good why hasnt he been able to stay at the top of his game after "producing" records like doggystlye? shit he must of fallen harder then a mutherfucka.
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Nowadays, I'd rather have Dre mixing an album than producing one. Unlike most producers these days, Dre can hear how a song is SUPPOSED to sound rather than how they WANT it to sound.
I haven't been impressed with Dre's beats as of late, but there is no doubt that he has a true ear for music. You can only do so much with any particular sound on a beat, but there are millions of ways you can put everything together, and that is where Dre excels at.
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dre is a genius, like dupri, diddy, timbo and quincy, they don't do ALL the work, but they MAKE it work
this is the reason why daz aint shit without dre, so he went to SOSODEF because dupri can take daz's sound and take it to that next level, like dre did
i can't believe people still question dre, like his record doesn't speak for itself, west coast heads are never happy, bunch of crying cunts, who don't check for an artist when they blow up too big.. chicago would be more relevant in hip hop than l.a had it not been for dre
on the east they worship premo, show some damn respect
perfect example, whoever here has 'thriller' look at the album credits, quincy jones didn't play any instruments, but people still bring up his name like he produced the whole album in his basement, he may not have done much with his hands, but his vision and ear for good music created a classic album
dre has done this with n.w.a/eazy/snoop/himself/d.o.c
to answer the topic, no i don't think we'll ever see a big name producer do a whole album top-to-bottom, that hasn't happened consistantly for years.
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to answer the topic, no i don't think we'll ever see a big name producer do a whole album top-to-bottom, that hasn't happened consistently for years.
Aside from DJ Paul & Juicy J, who pretty much produce everything inside Hypnotized Minds, I agree. As I recall, the last mainstream album that was solely produced by one person occurred before Pac died, so yeah, it's been a while.
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i think that rich-boy album with polow on the boards is the closest we'll come
and that's because at the moment he has silly pull in the industry
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nobudy can fuck it with dr.dre hes studio monster.ya digĻ!AY!
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he's a beast, anything he touches turns to platinum
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Dre is not a god, you can say whatever you want, but the fact is Dre don't come up with shit, he lets others do the work kicks back and listen. Then he adds some synth or drum to it, and that is producing? Come on, you can't be serious can you?
Next to that, like some people already said, his recent work sucks dick (no homo) and i'm not impressed in any way. He can come up with much much better stuff if he is as good as you claim him to be.
I just think Dre lost all his good help, like Daz, Warren, Mel-Man, Scott Storch etc. etc. When Dre worked together he could come up with good beats, now that he has to do with Mark Batson and Kawaun Parker (or whatever that dude is called) his material sucks. Now that's the best evidence there is. It shows us that Dre needs the people around him, yet i see his name all over his beats, not the people who help him. :-\
@ Low Key, that's why i dig DJ Paul & Juicy J, they bring consitency with them on all the Hypnotize Minds records. Like Lil' Wyte for example, listen to his first album Doubt Me Now, and check the productions there, i mean it is all DJ Paul & Juicy J, and everything sounds similar, but still different, you know. That's what i like about a record.
And people, we had The Ownerz from Gang Starr in 2003, don't forget DJ Premier. Basically he produces all the shit for Gang Starr (too bad they are not together anymore) and i loved that album The Ownerz.
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dre = quincy jones
dre has the gift of knowing what it's meant to sound like, he orchestrates
a conductor doesn't play all the instruments
music is more than a pirate copy of reason and a mpc in your moms basement, it's instruments, professional paid keyboard/string players
read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_%28album%29#Credits and tell me quincy didn't PRODUCE IT
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Nowadays, I'd rather have Dre mixing an album than producing one. Unlike most producers these days, Dre can hear how a song is SUPPOSED to sound rather than how they WANT it to sound.
I haven't been impressed with Dre's beats as of late, but there is no doubt that he has a true ear for music. You can only do so much with any particular sound on a beat, but there are millions of ways you can put everything together, and that is where Dre excels at.
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dre = quincy jones Nasty Nem = Tanjibility Dickrider :nawty:
dre has the gift of knowing what it's meant to sound like, he orchestrates
a conductor doesn't play all the instruments
music is more than a pirate copy of reason and a mpc in your moms basement, it's instruments, professional paid keyboard/string players
read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_%28album%29#Credits and tell me quincy didn't PRODUCE IT
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dre = quincy jones Nasty Nem = Tanjibility Dickrider :nawty:
dre has the gift of knowing what it's meant to sound like, he orchestrates
a conductor doesn't play all the instruments
music is more than a pirate copy of reason and a mpc in your moms basement, it's instruments, professional paid keyboard/string players
read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thriller_%28album%29#Credits and tell me quincy didn't PRODUCE IT
actually Nasty Nem disses me pretty consistently, though i heavily agree with his last 2 posts.
Check it man....producing is not doing the music for an album...that's a musician, producing is putting it all together and insuring a good final product. So, you're right...Dre didn't do alot of the music...but that's not the point, he did produce it all and that's all he's saying he did.
same applies for quincy.
-T
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what the hell Xander. If you look at Just Blaze do you think he does all the instruments on his tracks, of course not. Theres a video of him getting people to play different instruments because he isn't some one man band.
Same with Quincy Jones he didnt play every instrument that would be stupid.
Dre tells people what he wants them to play or in some cases they'll be in a studio jamming and Dre has the foresight to turn a little piano melody into a big tune. The Dre tracks now are more mature not hype tracks maybe thats why you dont like them. Dre used to use samples but instead now he uses professional musicians, it doesnt mean he isnt producing...
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Point is i got more respect for the likes of Daz who actually make their shit themselves, but they don't get the recognition they deserve, in 2k7 who knows about Daz Dillinger?
Same with the rest of the "beatmakers" who don't get their shine, it's always people like Dre takin' all the credit away. One of the dudes who did get the recognition by breaking away from Dre was Scott Storch, good to see he's making cash and getting shine off his beats.
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Point is i got more respect for the likes of Daz who actually make their shit themselves, but they don't get the recognition they deserve, in 2k7 who knows about Daz Dillinger?
Same with the rest of the "beatmakers" who don't get their shine, it's always people like Dre takin' all the credit away. One of the dudes who did get the recognition by breaking away from Dre was Scott Storch, good to see he's making cash and getting shine off his beats.
So you were in the studio with Dre and Daz when Doggystyle and Chronic were being made? Cause you seem to believe Daz did all the work...
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I'm just saying Daz has been a no-name after his Death Row time, while Dre has been the big name producer ever since Death Row. People never really seem to understand that Daz helped with these "classics" and nobody knows what he has done and what not, it is all one big secret.
I am not saying he or Warren G did ALL the work, i don't know nothing about them in the studio, i'm just saying that they didn't get their share of shine. If Dre allowed to put Daz' name on these albums as co-producer he would be more famous nowadays i think.
That is what i mean, nothing more. There are producers who "oversee" the making of songs and add their little twist to the song and then they get their name on it. But the people who actually do the work never get that recognition. I just used Dre, Daz & Warren as example, since it is a Westcoast forum and this should make sense to you.
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On every type of music except rap, a producer is expected to gets the sounds & shapes the direction of the session while the artist brings in the initial song idea. It may consist of just a verse and chorus & a chord progression with the producer helping shape it and write additional parts, or a fully realized idea with the producer just adding a few bells & whistles and making sure the shit's coming out straight.
One thing I hardly ever see anyone talk about on here is the producers job to bring out the best in an artist. I've heard alot of dope beats from other producers, sometimes very "Dre like" beats where an artist is just spitting boring, uninspired shit. It seems to me that the producer can't control, or is so happy to have a big shit star in the studio, that they just let them have free reign. You never hear that on a Dre production. That's what it's all about IMO, bringing out the best in an artist..... REAL producing.
Sorry, just had to say it again......... 8)
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Thats why Quik, IMO, is a great producer. How many near classic albums has Quik produced top to bottom for his friends, 5, 6, 7? Quik can easily make a quality album top to bottom. A 16 track Dre produced album doesn't have the same appeal as it did 15 years ago. Dre tracks stick out, you look for them, you expect everyone to be perfect, but 16 perfect tracks, no one in music can pull off.
Totally forgot about Quik, I would love to hear an contemporary artist completly produced by Quik, would kinda like to hear Snoop and QUIK an album together, i think they'd compliment each other perfectly.
In all honesty, I think it's either gonna go 1 of 2 ways;
1) he continues to do the same ol' $300,000 per beat, and if I really like you, I'll give you a hot one"
or
2) Like Tanj says, he catches an epiphany and once again decides to do a whole artist top to bottom, this time our modern era "Chronic 92" phenomenon...
I'm banking on 1, but really hoping for 2
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I'm just saying Daz has been a no-name after his Death Row time, while Dre has been the big name producer ever since Death Row. People never really seem to understand that Daz helped with these "classics" and nobody knows what he has done and what not, it is all one big secret.
I am not saying he or Warren G did ALL the work, i don't know nothing about them in the studio, i'm just saying that they didn't get their share of shine. If Dre allowed to put Daz' name on these albums as co-producer he would be more famous nowadays i think.
That is what i mean, nothing more. There are producers who "oversee" the making of songs and add their little twist to the song and then they get their name on it. But the people who actually do the work never get that recognition. I just used Dre, Daz & Warren as example, since it is a Westcoast forum and this should make sense to you.
But from what Snoop said all Daz and Warren G did was find samples to one or two songs on the album? Dre still made the song, why should Dre have to put Daz and Warren G as co-producer. It works both ways, Dre hardly got any credit for Dogg Food.
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I will say this, Daz and Warren should get more credit for their DR production work BUT that doesn't mean dre didn't produce it.
also, as far as Daz.....One of my favorite Daz produced tracks is 'On Tha Grind' from R.A.W. with Kurupt. That song has bass guitar, guitar, pianos, keyboards, drums, and most of it live....I don't know who played those instruments but I don't think it was Daz (cept maybe the keys) but I do know Daz coordinated and produced it and that's good enough for me you know? also, you'll notice Dre credits his musicians in the Chronic and 2001 booklets: Colin Wolfe, Mike Elizondo, Storch and many others are credited often with dre's shit.
-T
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But he never openly says who helps him "produce" you know, cause who reads booklets? Only us hiphop fans do, the rest of the masses just cop a cd and play it, plus it is probably necessary for Dre to put them in the credits in the booklet, if not he could get sued over some shit.
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But he never openly says who helps him "produce" you know, cause who reads booklets? Only us hiphop fans do, the rest of the masses just cop a cd and play it, plus it is probably necessary for Dre to put them in the credits in the booklet, if not he could get sued over some shit.
people that aren't into music like we are don't even realize dre is a producer or what a producer is, trust, I've asked. even people that like rap don't know shit for the most part.
-T
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Daz gets respect for what he does. Dogg Food Daz would have got all the credit for that, yet people wouldn't have noticed in the credits that Dre mixed some tracks and probably helped produce some from what Snoop said. It would be more reasonable to have put Daz's name on AEOM cover cause him and Jonny J did most of it.
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Another classic album that many don't even know shit about. When the masses listen to AEOM do you think they realize Daz produced a majority of shit on there? Hell no.
It is always people like that (Johnny J as you also have mentioned, and a grip of others too) don't get the credit they deserve.
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this xander crakka stupid for not knowing the difference between a "beatmaker" and a "producer"
kid mad dre don't play his own violins and shit
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Lol, i can talk better english then you, while it's not even my language. :D
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Lol, i can talk better english then you, while it's not even my language. :D
you haven't heard me talk, genius
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U mad doggie?
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U mad doggie?
yeah i'm mad dre didn't go up to the roof on his mansion with a sampler during a thunderstorm just to get the right sound effect for 'minority report'
real mad
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I can see that, try to relax a bit. :)
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Lol, i can talk better english then you, while it's not even my language. :D
than
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Lol, i can talk better english then you, while it's not even my language. :D
than
;D ;D ;D
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Like i said, it's not my language, i talk Dutch, English, German and French a lil' bit, when you can do that holla back. :)