West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: rayallen0 on December 24, 2007, 02:49:03 AM
-
Does Music Piracy Hurt Record Sales?
-
bootlegging + POOR records are working hand in hand in my opinion :)
-
hmm, people dont buy the album because they download it off the internet... i dont know, you got me :laugh:
-
Most downloaded albums were never going to be bought anyway. A good album at a decent price marketed well will always sell.
In some cases illegal downloading has served as great marketing tool to create publicity and generate sales.
-
Can a woman get pregnant after having sex?
-
Can a woman get pregnant after having sex?
Very good metaphor. The amount of pregnancies that occur after sex equals the amount of record sales lost after albums are leaked.
-
Nope, cause Chingy still sells.
-
It plays a big part... but also having a good amount of non-creative and highly enjoyable music is just as responsible.
-
why are ppl gonna spend money on somethin when they can get it for free? easily accessable content
i say about 90% of hardcore hip hop fans who are on the computer havent bought an album since a lil before the napster days
is chris brown even platinum yet?? lol
-
why are ppl gonna spend money on somethin when they can get it for free? easily accessable content
i say about 90% of hardcore hip hop fans who are on the computer havent bought an album since a lil before the napster days
is chris brown even platinum yet?? lol
90% of my pre-napster albums were either dubbed tapes or burned CDs. Most hip hop fans I knew did the same. And of all the albums wth decent sales on the charts the original copy that was someone's sister's copy. As long as it's cool for young white women to buy albums by cool black men hip hop sales we'll do as good as they always do.
-
real talk last album I bought was Amerie's first joint in '02
I'm part of the problem :-[
-
real talk last album I bought was Amerie's first joint in '02
I'm part of the problem :-[
LOL
damn
buy another one at least so u don't say "last lp i bought was amerie's 1st joint"
-
its the biggest problem. Dont matter if the album is good or bad cause most people will get for free.
-
many people on here say that the problem is the quality isnt there, but the real problem is that a lot of people are too greedy to pony up the cheese for a well-done album unless its straight-up "classic" in their eyes or in the eyes of the masses.
-
many people on here say that the problem is the quality isnt there, but the real problem is that a lot of people are too greedy to pony up the cheese for a well-done album unless its straight-up "classic" in their eyes or in the eyes of the masses.
It's always been that way. We saw a huge surge in the Reagan years because of low taxes and high disposable income. Let's say Ron Paul wins the election and the income tax and social security go away, for regular people and for companies andleaves us with more money to spend and lower prices, you'll see another surge. Imagine you didn't have to pay any tax on the checque you get every week and nothing at the end of the year, and the average album costs 7 or 8 dollars. How many people will just end up picking up a few more albums here and there? Keep in mind that most people do not frequent torrent sites and get full albums in one download.
-
^^^
everyones going to be so used to "SAVING" money... look at it like this ... people spend alot of time cutting out coupons from sundays news paper that save them about 75 cents on items.. what makes u think society wouldnt want to continue to save money buy getting there shit for free...
torrent?? blogs, mirc, internet rap forums boxden , lime wire = alot of shelved albums and starving artists
-
No way, artists on majors don't get paid shit anyway for CD sales, i support the artist by going to their concerts. Plus, it takes effort to go to the record store, find what you're looking for, wonder if you're gonna like it or not, and then buy it and find out it was a waste of money. It's faster to DL. I'm gonna buy Lupe Fiasco's record and Radiohead's one though i've already been listening to the downloaded ones for a minute. so yeah, an artist doesn't make classic music, if there's only 2-3 good tracks on a record, why the fuck should i spend 12-18 dollars (that i could find 100 other uses for) on that record? esp. if i'm gonna listen to those 2-3 tracks only
-
i download first, i like it? i buy it. if its bad, or so-so i keep it digital.
-
^^^
everyones going to be so used to "SAVING" money... look at it like this ... people spend alot of time cutting out coupons from sundays news paper that save them about 75 cents on items.. what makes u think society wouldnt want to continue to save money buy getting there shit for free...
torrent?? blogs, mirc, internet rap forums boxden , lime wire = alot of shelved albums and starving artists
Starving? No way. The more people that have the album, the more people that like the artist, the more people that go to a concert. That's where the artists get there money; live shows.
Save? Why didn't they do that in the 80s? People don't save, and a dubbed cassette on a crappy walkman isn't much worse than a real cassette on a crappy walkman or 80s car stereo.
Show me a great album from an artist than didn't sell. Show me where that artist would have sold. Illmatic wasa classic, barely went platnum. No internet to hurt those sales. N'sync came out at the heart of the internet craze, so did Eminem. Everyone downladed Encore, why'd it still end up at 5 platinum?
-
I still buy albums all the time. The only time I download is if it's random song by artists whose albums I don't intend to buy - meaning not my favorite artists.
But when it comes to the artists I am a fan of (and there are tons of them) I'll buy the album for sure.
-
it never used to be that way the ONLY SOURCE of MAJOR INCOME for an artist is in TOURING....there used to be several artist deals and perks/bonuses if an artist sold xxxxx amount of copies in record contracts... plus not only that you were able to negotiate a contract were you would earn more money back on every single record sold ...
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JOUKHd12UAo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JOUKHd12UAo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
truth be told all bull shit aside ^^^^^^
watch and pay attention
-
Only if you're a rapper, and your target audience is the 16-25 year olds.
If you're in any other musical genre the impact of the internet, mp3's et al. is minimal. 5-10% maybe. If you're in the hip-hop/r&b/rap genre you're talking about 25-30% which changes the way record companies look at prospective acts/artists and arguably influences the majority of what we hear hip-hop today. The profit margins are smaller so the available funds to develop new artists are limited, and thus the spectrum of creative diversity is smaller. Record exec's rely on older, established artists/acts to keep bringing in money while new artists are pressured to come with a sound that's popular/proven to generate income or turned away completely.
So yeah, downloading and piracy pretty much = the black plague for hip-hop IMO.
-
it never used to be that way the ONLY SOURCE of MAJOR INCOME for an artist is in TOURING....there used to be several artist deals and perks/bonuses if an artist sold xxxxx amount of copies in record contracts... plus not only that you were able to negotiate a contract were you would earn more money back on every single record sold ...
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JOUKHd12UAo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JOUKHd12UAo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
truth be told all bull shit aside ^^^^^^
watch and pay attention
I'd say record labels not throwing money away on shitty Busta albums is a good thing. 4 million dollars to make a Busta album? Fuck that. Why would I support bad artists getting overpaid for doing less. You get on the road, put on a home run show night after night, build your fan base. Dave Matthews Band barely aproacges 1 million sales when they realease a record but every time they go on tour they come home with 50 million dollars.
Look through the history of music revenue for artists. The records started breaking year after year with each tour. Grateful Dead in the 70s and 80s and Phish in the 90s made more money than the top hip hop stars and both bands barely sold a record, and barely saw radio, or video play. The money was always in the live show.
The late 80s and 90s was filled with shitty music and stupd business decisions by management. That's what lead to Busta geting 4 mil. It was the time of propping up artists and making them look special. High budget videos, expensive guest spots. People still pay clowns like Tinbo, Dre and Kanye way too much for a beat just to say those guys did the beat. They can just take the same samples Kanye uses and get the same song. You can hire Elizondo for less than Dre and get the same musical notes because Elizondo wrtes, unless they are covered from an old song.
-
bootlegging + POOR records are working hand in hand in my opinion :)
Exactly. The piracy is obviously not going to make it easier to sell records unless the music is actually quality music worth buying. If an album is garbage, the easier access to the album is going to make it much easier for it to be known that its a garbage ass record. It works the opposite way for quality music. The more people who hear a quality record, then more people are going to buy it.
-
I wouldn't buy alot of the stuff I download anyway, and if I really like the artist, I still buy - but I know other people who don't. Of course it affects the sales, but the artists really don't connect with the audience like they need to, either.
-
yes.. and also my harddrive
-
no. just a little tiny bit http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March2004.pdf
-
no. just a little tiny bit http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March2004.pdf
Props!
-
there is absolutely no doubt that downloading has played a role in the continued downward trend of record sales...not so much for big acts because people usually buy the records of their favourite artists anyways....even the biggest cats have seen sales decline drastically BUT its more of a problem for the regular cat, the average singer who would have sold 50-500k or even reach platinum will probably sell about 50-100k max now....why? because before downloading people would often buy records they were not soo sure about...like u would walk into a record store and cop an album u may have heard about but was not sure about.....now instead of that, people just download the album or download the one or two dope tracks from the album and fuck the rest of the album whereas before poeple would cop the album...
i know there has been stuff i would have copped in the past i have not now because of the internet....and lets face it, the internet seems to expand ont he daily and ipods and mp3 players and word of mouth of downloading tracks back from napster to torrens is huge...
ofcourse music piracy has had a negative affect on record sales, not just of hiphop, most genres BUT at the same time, it also gives promotion and has in many ways made people blow up who couldnt exposure in other ways due to lack of funds or whatever...
but obviously like anything else its not all clear and a one sided debate...but there is no doubt the internet has had an effect on sales of music records...but seriously who gives a fuck, i download and i aint ashamed....i buy albums still too...but its just shit i would have had to cop before to check shit i don't need to anymore....
i mean if eminem used to sell 10 million records now but is now sellin 3-4 million...i couldnt give a fuck because whiteboy is still gon be makin crazy paper
pz
-
no. just a little tiny bit http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March2004.pdf
Props!
yeah i did a presentation about this a few months ago so i still had that link
for the people that dont want to read 52 pages... here's some of the important parts: http://www.hbs.edu/news/releases/032904_file_sharing.html
File Sharing Cannot Explain the Decline in Sales of Music during This Period
Even in the professors most pessimistic statistical model, it takes 5,000 downloads to reduce the sales of an album by a single copy. If this worst-case scenario were true, file sharing would have reduced CD sales by 2 million copies in 2002. To provide a point of reference, CD sales actually declined by 139 million copies from 2000 to 2002.
More Popular CDs Benefit from File Sharing
The effect of file sharing on sales depends on the popularity of a release, according to the researchers. For the least popular albums (with sales of less than 36,000 copies) the authors found a small negative effect. In contrast, for the top 25 percent of albums (with sales of more than 600,000 copies) they found a positive effect: 150 downloads increase sales by one copy. This effect is particularly important because the profitability of the music industry depends almost entirely on the success of the most popular albums.
-
i mean if eminem used to sell 10 million records now but is now sellin 3-4 million...i couldnt give a fuck because whiteboy is still gon be makin crazy paper
Encore didn't go 4.5 because of downloads. It went 4.5 because it wasn't as good as MMLP or Em Show. Both of those albums were downloaded as much as Encore. There were no super hit singles on Emcore to make MTV watchng teen girls buy multiple copies.
-
i mean if eminem used to sell 10 million records now but is now sellin 3-4 million...i couldnt give a fuck because whiteboy is still gon be makin crazy paper
Encore didn't go 4.5 because of downloads. It went 4.5 because it wasn't as good as MMLP or Em Show. Both of those albums were downloaded as much as Encore. There were no super hit singles on Emcore to make MTV watchng teen girls buy multiple copies.
are u motherfucking kidding me?
Just Lose It? Mockingbird?Encore?Like Toy Soldiers?Ass Like That?Mosh?
-
i mean if eminem used to sell 10 million records now but is now sellin 3-4 million...i couldnt give a fuck because whiteboy is still gon be makin crazy paper
Encore didn't go 4.5 because of downloads. It went 4.5 because it wasn't as good as MMLP or Em Show. Both of those albums were downloaded as much as Encore. There were no super hit singles on Emcore to make MTV watchng teen girls buy multiple copies.
are u motherfucking kidding me?
Just Lose It? Mockingbird?Encore?Like Toy Soldiers?Ass Like That?Mosh?
You really are thirteen, aren't you? By Eminem's standards, Mosh, Mockingbird and Encore weren't even remotely close to deserving to be called successful. Just Lose It, Like Toy Soldiers and Ass Like That certainly did grab the attention, but they ultimately didn't stick the way Em's prior successes have. If you're not thirteen, how can you not notice the blatent difference in impact?
-
i mean if eminem used to sell 10 million records now but is now sellin 3-4 million...i couldnt give a fuck because whiteboy is still gon be makin crazy paper
Encore didn't go 4.5 because of downloads. It went 4.5 because it wasn't as good as MMLP or Em Show. Both of those albums were downloaded as much as Encore. There were no super hit singles on Emcore to make MTV watchng teen girls buy multiple copies.
are u motherfucking kidding me?
Just Lose It? Mockingbird?Encore?Like Toy Soldiers?Ass Like That?Mosh?
Real Slim Shady, The Way I Am, and Stan were all super hit singles. With Out Me, Sing For The Moment, and Cleaning Out My Cloest, were decent hit singles living off the last three hits. The Encore singles were rip offs of rip offs and the sales showed that. More people downloaded Em Show than Encore, and more people bought Em Show than Encore.
-
i mean if eminem used to sell 10 million records now but is now sellin 3-4 million...i couldnt give a fuck because whiteboy is still gon be makin crazy paper
Encore didn't go 4.5 because of downloads. It went 4.5 because it wasn't as good as MMLP or Em Show. Both of those albums were downloaded as much as Encore. There were no super hit singles on Emcore to make MTV watchng teen girls buy multiple copies.
i agree, like i said in my post, the big stars are not as affected by downloading in my opinion as the average artist....however i do not believe the only reason he lost all them sales were due to wack singles and a wack album....no doubt that played a huge part but im sure he lost some due to downloading...but again like i said in my post above, its not cats like eminem who really get affected as badly
-
the quality of music huh...? Chamillionaires album Ultimate Victory was a huge upgrade MUSIC wise to his previous album Sound Of Revenge but his sound scan numbers arent even close to PLATINUM, he reached PLATINUM with sound of revenge... why? because people are downloading his shit instead of making the trip getting in your car, catching the bus to go to best buy or your local record shop and spend 15$ on a CD.. so why not download a CD thats gonna be in CDQ and convienently save myself some time, money, and gas by downloading it.
and because of .Mp3 there is alot less $$$$$ for Record companys and Recording Artists in HIP HOP
the numbers don't lie.. your top hip hop artists arent doing the numbers they used to GOLD IS THE NEW PLATINUM
people in the ghetto, in lower class or lower middle class arent going to be buying no albums
so the quality of music is bad? shit back in the days u could go out and just buy a Single and that single would do BIG NUMBERS out on its own.. is that happening now? mp3.
i wouldnt say the quality of music is bad, hip hop has evolved u cant do the same shit u were doing 15 years ago, 20 years ago u go in the studio do an album and the album sound like u in 1988... the beats have evolved... the vocals harmony, word play, flow all these things have progressed but yet, Numbers are Down
-
the quality of music huh...? Chamillionaires album Ultimate Victory was a huge upgrade MUSIC wise to his previous album Sound Of Revenge but his sound scan numbers arent even close to PLATINUM, he reached PLATINUM with sound of revenge... why? because people are downloading his shit instead of making the trip getting in your car, catching the bus to go to best buy or your local record shop and spend 15$ on a CD.. so why not download a CD thats gonna be in CDQ and convienently save myself some time, money, and gas by downloading it.
and because of .Mp3 there is alot less $$$$$ for Record companys and Recording Artists in HIP HOP
the numbers don't lie.. your top hip hop artists arent doing the numbers they used to GOLD IS THE NEW PLATINUM
people in the ghetto, in lower class or lower middle class arent going to be buying no albums
so the quality of music is bad? shit back in the days u could go out and just buy a Single and that single would do BIG NUMBERS out on its own.. is that happening now? mp3.
i wouldnt say the quality of music is bad, hip hop has evolved u cant do the same shit u were doing 15 years ago, 20 years ago u go in the studio do an album and the album sound like u in 1988... the beats have evolved... the vocals harmony, word play, flow all these things have progressed but yet, Numbers are Down
I mean quality as in pop quality. Great albums haven't sold ever on average. Bob Dylan barely ever went platinum and he has some of the greatest albums of all time. There was an album released this past August called The Historical Conquests of Josh Ritter and it's better than anything I've heard in years, but it won't sell. Or get downloaded. Illmatic was better than Please Hammer Don't Hurt Em but that album sold more than Nas's entire catalogue. No one is talking about good artistic expression here. When I say sales are down because the music sucks, I mean catchy pop hooks. Compare Beyonce's album to some of those early Madonna albums. Like A Virgin, Material Girl, are easy to sing a long to and hum. Beyonce doesn't have songs like that. Shaniah Twain has back to back to back Diamond albums. That's three in a row. Take a look at the billboard top 100 singles in te 80s and take a look at the top 100 singles of the 2000s. You lived through the entire 2000s but I bet you'll know more songs from the 80s. And if the 80s never happened and those songs started being released now you'd see a more sales.
How often have hip hop albums that don't appeal to the white suburbs ever went multi-platinum any way? Doggiestyle, Hard Knock Life, Life After Death, etc all appealed to whites and were mostly bought by them. Just like recent albums by 50, Em, Nelly, and Outkast appealed to and were bought by whites. The ghetto never made rappers platinum. They always dubbed tapes or bought the bootlegs on the street corner.
-
i mean if eminem used to sell 10 million records now but is now sellin 3-4 million...i couldnt give a fuck because whiteboy is still gon be makin crazy paper
Encore didn't go 4.5 because of downloads. It went 4.5 because it wasn't as good as MMLP or Em Show. Both of those albums were downloaded as much as Encore. There were no super hit singles on Emcore to make MTV watchng teen girls buy multiple copies.
are u motherfucking kidding me?
Just Lose It? Mockingbird?Encore?Like Toy Soldiers?Ass Like That?Mosh?
You really are thirteen, aren't you? By Eminem's standards, Mosh, Mockingbird and Encore weren't even remotely close to deserving to be called successful. Just Lose It, Like Toy Soldiers and Ass Like That certainly did grab the attention, but they ultimately didn't stick the way Em's prior successes have. If you're not thirteen, how can you not notice the blatent difference in impact?
just lose it was a super hit single is all i was saying...