West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: MontrealCity's Most on January 05, 2008, 01:11:01 PM
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Take youre pic, post youre opinions....
I should mention this thread comes about me and a friend arguing who's had the most influence in hip hop. He says Puff i say Dre. His argument is Puff has ties in rap and rnb while Dre is pretty much stricly rap. My opinion is that Dr DRe crafted the sound of rap on 3 different occasions and has worked with arguable the top acts in Rap and broke in all the major acts in hip hop besides a handful.
Example ( Nwa - and anyone affiated with them, Death row and affiliates..Eminem, 50 Aftermath. )
Those names are arguable the biggest names in rap commercial or not
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Don't talk about puff daddy pfff this man have no talent "Biggie say it himself on a video".
I don't like this man til I die >:(
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In Rap I will say Dr.Dre, no doubt Dr.Dre did alot for Rap...but as far as hiphop goes, I'll give it to Puff, must of yall will disagree since its a west coast forum and full of Dr.Dre groupies, but on the real outside Rap what did Andre Young Do?, he failed with the RNB records he put out, and he was only good with Rap.. while with Puffy he was universal...of course like the homie said no Dr.Dre . no NWA, no Death Row and No Aftermath...but what about Puff? no Puff, no Mary J, No Jodeci, and if u think about it No Jodeci...no timbaland & Missy and the list goes on..
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dre by far..but i never was i diddi fan(or daddy or dudadi ???) and that will not say that i'm i dre groupie at all
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You can think about Dre what you want, but without him todays rap would not be what it is
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Dr. Dre has had the biggest influence by far. Not only has he made and remade the sound of an entire genre by himself multiple times, he has also brought us two of rap's biggest stars. Needless to say, these are Snoop and Eminem. On top of that, he has also played a major role in kickstarting the career of Ice Cube, who'd never been as big as he was without NWA, which would never have been as influential as it was without Dr. Dre either.
Now who has Puffy brought us that really has had staying power and given him indirect influence? You could only consider Notorious B.I.G. to be such a protegé but I wouldn't count him since he is long dead and owes much of his status to the fact he was murdered.
Puff needs to be given his due where it concerns R&B but Dre, even if he wasn't very succesful at R&B himself, did bring us Scott Storch who could be considered a productional protegé of his. Given Storch's influence, Dre has had a lot indirect power in shaping R&B as well, simply because of giving Storch a chance to prove himself.
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ohhh ^^^ good point on the storch influence i dint even think of that one.
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it's the great D.R.E.
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In Rap I will say Dr.Dre, no doubt Dr.Dre did alot for Rap...but as far as hiphop goes, I'll give it to Puff, must of yall will disagree since its a west coast forum and full of Dr.Dre groupies, but on the real outside Rap what did Andre Young Do?, he failed with the RNB records he put out, and he was only good with Rap.. while with Puffy he was universal...of course like the homie said no Dr.Dre . no NWA, no Death Row and No Aftermath...but what about Puff? no Puff, no Mary J, No Jodeci, and if u think about it No Jodeci...no timbaland & Missy and the list goes on..
Finally an intelligent opinion. Of course it was Puffy, and I am NOT a fan. P-Diddy's contribution to R&B is also very important, and he became a buisness mogul as well, following Russell Simmon's path.
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The idea of putting the two names together in a sentence is stupid.....Puff hasn't contributed ANYTHING. You know why? Because he samples every song he makes!!! It's already been done by someone else!!! He uses them! The royalty checks must be rediculous for the originals....he has to pay the original artists and record companies for the rights to use the songs and he "adds on to". That's the furthest thing from original...at least be creative. It's practically the same song except Puff is on it. Dr Dre is completely different..if he takes a classic record and redoes it, he gives it its own life and makes it his own...he doesnt just take a tree and decorate it. He takes the seeds instead and grows his own fuckin tree. All that aside, Puff is a bitch anyway....yea he has money and fame but SO WHAT...that doesnt make the man...he's a little sneeky ass hoe with a bunch of security guards and denial issues...he was lucky to come accross Biggie. Dr. Dre has his issues too, like putting out a record only every 100 years. And to be honest, his sound has changed drastically since 2001....it all sounds too similar now. But regardless, Puff isnt talent...he's commercial. Dre is born music, real talent.....I bet anyone that if Puff and Dre has a competition to see who could produce the best album from top to bottom......common, who do u think would win in all catagories? Sound, appeal, production, quality, intricacy....Fuckin Dr Dre!!
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In Rap I will say Dr.Dre, no doubt Dr.Dre did alot for Rap...but as far as hiphop goes, I'll give it to Puff, must of yall will disagree since its a west coast forum and full of Dr.Dre groupies, but on the real outside Rap what did Andre Young Do?, he failed with the RNB records he put out, and he was only good with Rap.. while with Puffy he was universal...of course like the homie said no Dr.Dre . no NWA, no Death Row and No Aftermath...but what about Puff? no Puff, no Mary J, No Jodeci, and if u think about it No Jodeci...no timbaland & Missy and the list goes on..
cosign
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voted: Dr. Dre
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Hercy has one of the best responses.
This isn't really a good comparison to make....this is like askin who's impact did more for sports....Red Aurebach or Jerry Buss?
They both had major impacts in different arenas which shouldn't really be compared. Diddy is more known overall as an icon, and he is much more of a visible personality. Musically, of course Dre is light years ahead of him. When it comes to classic and timeless music, Dre's ears are better than Puffs. Business wise, Diddy does much more than just music.
So with anything involving music, 9 times out of 10, Dre wins. When you look outside of music, or even outside of rap, and at business moves, impact outside of the studio, who's more recognizable to the average person....Diddy wins.
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In Rap I will say Dr.Dre, no doubt Dr.Dre did alot for Rap...but as far as hiphop goes, I'll give it to Puff, must of yall will disagree since its a west coast forum and full of Dr.Dre groupies, but on the real outside Rap what did Andre Young Do?, he failed with the RNB records he put out, and he was only good with Rap.. while with Puffy he was universal...of course like the homie said no Dr.Dre . no NWA, no Death Row and No Aftermath...but what about Puff? no Puff, no Mary J, No Jodeci, and if u think about it No Jodeci...no timbaland & Missy and the list goes on..
I really don't see the connection between the claim and the arguments... (bold parts)
Many people from the MTV/BET generation seem to think that r&b is hiphop... well it isn't. Not accusing you of anything, because you seem like a bright fella most of the time. But I strongly disagree with your statement.
*edit*
Thus, Dre obviously gets my vote. Since it's hiphop we're talking here... but as R-Tistic points out in the post above me, if we're talking the entertainment world on a more general basis, Puffy gets it.
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Hercy has one of the best responses.
This isn't really a good comparison to make....this is like askin who's impact did more for sports....Red Aurebach or Jerry Buss?
They both had major impacts in different arenas which shouldn't really be compared. Diddy is more known overall as an icon, and he is much more of a visible personality. Musically, of course Dre is light years ahead of him. When it comes to classic and timeless music, Dre's ears are better than Puffs. Business wise, Diddy does much more than just music.
So with anything involving music, 9 times out of 10, Dre wins. When you look outside of music, or even outside of rap, and at business moves, impact outside of the studio, who's more recognizable to the average person....Diddy wins.
when me and my friend were talkin about this subject we were talking music. Maybe i should of made that clear from the jump.
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In Rap I will say Dr.Dre, no doubt Dr.Dre did alot for Rap...but as far as hiphop goes, I'll give it to Puff, must of yall will disagree since its a west coast forum and full of Dr.Dre groupies, but on the real outside Rap what did Andre Young Do?, he failed with the RNB records he put out, and he was only good with Rap.. while with Puffy he was universal...of course like the homie said no Dr.Dre . no NWA, no Death Row and No Aftermath...but what about Puff? no Puff, no Mary J, No Jodeci, and if u think about it No Jodeci...no timbaland & Missy and the list goes on..
I really don't see the connection between the claim and the arguments... (bold parts)
Many people from the MTV/BET generation seem to think that r&b is hiphop... well it isn't. Not accusing you of anything, because you seem like a bright fella most of the time. But I strongly disagree with your statement.
*edit*
Thus, Dre obviously gets my vote. Since it's hiphop we're talking here... but as R-Tistic points out in the post above me, if we're talking the entertainment world on a more general basis, Puffy gets it.
to me R&B & Rap are 2 Genre in the Hiphop Unbrella..so yes to me Dr.Dre did alot for RAP...he basically the Quincy Jones OF RAP, To Me Puffy is responsible for alot of acts success wich inspired others to be successful today and its in Hiphop In General, and he is a really good executive producer he was able to produce albums outside his own label and they were all successful, and Marketing wise Puffy had it on him also, even with the remixes in Rap & R&B. of Course there was the sampling issue, but atleast Puffy was doing it right, u cant tell that all the songs he sampled sucks because it was done right. to me when i hear Puff Daddy I hear Hiphop Mogol.. when I Hear Dr.Dre I hear Rap Legend..wich is 2 different things...
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Sure Puffy is a mogul i will never dispute that but Dre has done a lot more helping the careers of artists, crafting the sound of rap nusic since the mid to late 80s.
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Sure Puffy is a mogul i will never dispute that but Dre has done a lot more helping the careers of artists, crafting the sound of rap nusic since the mid to late 80s.
and u said it RAP!!! nothing else
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So what his influence in rap is bigger then puffs over in hip hop im sorry but NWa, snoop eminem have a lot more influence and classic records then 112 lol Ill give you Mary J tho but then again im sure Puff had loads of people around him and just pretty much " ok'd" shit while Dre was there making beats, producing ( 2 different things ) mixing the records.
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R&B is not hip hop
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R&B is not hip hop
R&B is inside hiphop..Hiphop is a Culture
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dr.dre by a long shot
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yeah, hip hop is a culture, so in which element of that culture does R&B fall?
at least, thats how i see it..
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R&B is not hip hop
R&B is inside hiphop..Hiphop is a Culture
yeah, hip hop is a culture, so in which element of that culture does R&B fall?
at least, thats how i see it..
in the music element... i might of argued this in the 90s but i mean rnb now has a lot of rap influences. Back in the early to mid 90s rnb beats were clearlt rnb but now you hear " rnb" beats that to me could be used for a rap song or vice versa.
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The 4 elements, at least in the early years, were the DJ, the MC, graffiti, and the B-Boy. I sort of see what you're saying, but there is/was no individual "Music" element of Hip Hop.
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The 4 elements, at least in the early years, were the DJ, the MC, graffiti, and the B-Boy. I sort of see what you're saying, but there is/was no individual "Music" element of Hip Hop.
ya but this aint the 70s early 80s
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true true, i guess it's different depending on how you interpret "hip hop".
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true true, i guess it's different depending on how you interpret "hip hop".
to me hip hop used to be those 4 elements but now its more much.
Its different kinds of music
clothes, fashion
talk, speach
etc
but this is a topic for another thread
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doc dre
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In Rap I will say Dr.Dre, no doubt Dr.Dre did alot for Rap...but as far as hiphop goes, I'll give it to Puff, must of yall will disagree since its a west coast forum and full of Dr.Dre groupies, but on the real outside Rap what did Andre Young Do?, he failed with the RNB records he put out, and he was only good with Rap.. while with Puffy he was universal...of course like the homie said no Dr.Dre . no NWA, no Death Row and No Aftermath...but what about Puff? no Puff, no Mary J, No Jodeci, and if u think about it No Jodeci...no timbaland & Missy and the list goes on..
I really don't see the connection between the claim and the arguments... (bold parts)
Many people from the MTV/BET generation seem to think that r&b is hiphop... well it isn't. Not accusing you of anything, because you seem like a bright fella most of the time. But I strongly disagree with your statement.
*edit*
Thus, Dre obviously gets my vote. Since it's hiphop we're talking here... but as R-Tistic points out in the post above me, if we're talking the entertainment world on a more general basis, Puffy gets it.
to me R&B & Rap are 2 Genre in the Hiphop Unbrella..so yes to me Dr.Dre did alot for RAP...he basically the Quincy Jones OF RAP, To Me Puffy is responsible for alot of acts success wich inspired others to be successful today and its in Hiphop In General, and he is a really good executive producer he was able to produce albums outside his own label and they were all successful, and Marketing wise Puffy had it on him also, even with the remixes in Rap & R&B. of Course there was the sampling issue, but atleast Puffy was doing it right, u cant tell that all the songs he sampled sucks because it was done right. to me when i hear Puff Daddy I hear Hiphop Mogol.. when I Hear Dr.Dre I hear Rap Legend..wich is 2 different things...
I guess this boils down to a disagreement in definitions then, because if I look away from the hiphop/r&b thing, I definately agree with you on most points. Change "hiphop" with "music" when you're talking about Puffy, and I have no arguments. But r&b isn't hiphop... and that's a fact. Rap-inspired? Most definately, but not hiphop. And this is coming from a guy that's in no shape or formed involved in any conservative hiphop-purism (four elements and such).
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In Rap I will say Dr.Dre, no doubt Dr.Dre did alot for Rap...but as far as hiphop goes, I'll give it to Puff, must of yall will disagree since its a west coast forum and full of Dr.Dre groupies, but on the real outside Rap what did Andre Young Do?, he failed with the RNB records he put out, and he was only good with Rap.. while with Puffy he was universal...of course like the homie said no Dr.Dre . no NWA, no Death Row and No Aftermath...but what about Puff? no Puff, no Mary J, No Jodeci, and if u think about it No Jodeci...no timbaland & Missy and the list goes on..
I really don't see the connection between the claim and the arguments... (bold parts)
Many people from the MTV/BET generation seem to think that r&b is hiphop... well it isn't. Not accusing you of anything, because you seem like a bright fella most of the time. But I strongly disagree with your statement.
*edit*
Thus, Dre obviously gets my vote. Since it's hiphop we're talking here... but as R-Tistic points out in the post above me, if we're talking the entertainment world on a more general basis, Puffy gets it.
to me R&B & Rap are 2 Genre in the Hiphop Unbrella..so yes to me Dr.Dre did alot for RAP...he basically the Quincy Jones OF RAP, To Me Puffy is responsible for alot of acts success wich inspired others to be successful today and its in Hiphop In General, and he is a really good executive producer he was able to produce albums outside his own label and they were all successful, and Marketing wise Puffy had it on him also, even with the remixes in Rap & R&B. of Course there was the sampling issue, but atleast Puffy was doing it right, u cant tell that all the songs he sampled sucks because it was done right. to me when i hear Puff Daddy I hear Hiphop Mogol.. when I Hear Dr.Dre I hear Rap Legend..wich is 2 different things...
When I hear Puff Daddy, I hear entertainment mogul.. When I hear Dr. Dre I hear hiphop legend ;)
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In Rap I will say Dr.Dre, no doubt Dr.Dre did alot for Rap...but as far as hiphop goes, I'll give it to Puff, must of yall will disagree since its a west coast forum and full of Dr.Dre groupies, but on the real outside Rap what did Andre Young Do?, he failed with the RNB records he put out, and he was only good with Rap.. while with Puffy he was universal...of course like the homie said no Dr.Dre . no NWA, no Death Row and No Aftermath...but what about Puff? no Puff, no Mary J, No Jodeci, and if u think about it No Jodeci...no timbaland & Missy and the list goes on..
I really don't see the connection between the claim and the arguments... (bold parts)
Many people from the MTV/BET generation seem to think that r&b is hiphop... well it isn't. Not accusing you of anything, because you seem like a bright fella most of the time. But I strongly disagree with your statement.
*edit*
Thus, Dre obviously gets my vote. Since it's hiphop we're talking here... but as R-Tistic points out in the post above me, if we're talking the entertainment world on a more general basis, Puffy gets it.
to me R&B & Rap are 2 Genre in the Hiphop Unbrella..so yes to me Dr.Dre did alot for RAP...he basically the Quincy Jones OF RAP, To Me Puffy is responsible for alot of acts success wich inspired others to be successful today and its in Hiphop In General, and he is a really good executive producer he was able to produce albums outside his own label and they were all successful, and Marketing wise Puffy had it on him also, even with the remixes in Rap & R&B. of Course there was the sampling issue, but atleast Puffy was doing it right, u cant tell that all the songs he sampled sucks because it was done right. to me when i hear Puff Daddy I hear Hiphop Mogol.. when I Hear Dr.Dre I hear Rap Legend..wich is 2 different things...
When I hear Puff Daddy, I hear entertainment mogul.. When I hear Dr. Dre I hear hiphop legend ;)
no doubt Puffy got the better cologne though thats about it 8)
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Is this even fair? It's a West Coast forum who do you think people are gonna choose? Dre of course, I'd choose him too though ;D
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Is this even fair? It's a West Coast forum who do you think people are gonna choose? Dre of course, I'd choose him too though ;D
i posted a heads up in outbound section still.
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Well Diddy has sure contributed to hip hop : he's the biggest reason why hip hop has turned pop
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Is this a real fuckin qwursion, fuckkkkkk, oviousklt doc dree u gofs!!!!
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Lmao RnB is not part of hip hop (this just shows the sad state hip hop is in that people are confusing the two)! Puffy may have done more for RnB than Dre, but in terms of hip hop Puffy hasnt done that much outside of Bad Boy. Dres put Eminem, 50, Snoop etc in the limelight and he's done more hip hop production. Puffys a good mixer but not that imaginative with his production and hasn't put out many classics, bar Biggies two.
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Gotta say Dre, cuz where wuz Puff when Dre started thiz shit!
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puffy.
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HOlmes 1
Hercy 0
8)
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Puffy said in an MTV interview back in the mid 90's, when talking about a brewing East-West beef that if there was no Death Row, there'd be no Bad Boy Records. Dre helped birth a genre. Close thread.
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Puffy said in an MTV interview back in the mid 90's, when talking about a brewing East-West beef that if there was no Death Row, there'd be no Bad Boy Records. Dre helped birth a genre. Close thread.
he oculd of said Nwa but ill take Death row
good point
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YOu lost Hercy 8)
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Puffy said in an MTV interview back in the mid 90's, when talking about a brewing East-West beef that if there was no Death Row, there'd be no Bad Boy Records. Dre helped birth a genre. Close thread.
Biggie wrote Ready 2 Die to the Chronic, CLOSE THREAD.