West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Lunatic on January 10, 2008, 02:48:37 PM
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Not taking away any accomplishments of his, but look at the teams he coached for those rings. I now how important coaching is but Jordan & Pippen + the supporting cast they had & Kobe + Shaq?
I say yes.
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He has coached 3 three-peats. That's 9 rings as a coach. The next time a team wins 3 championships in a row then you can bring up this topic with some validity.
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I can say one thing about Phills coaching that sometimes i really get grey hair by some of the crazy subs he uses during situations in games but you cant really second guess him can ya.
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Yes. Dont get me wrong, a championship is a championship. BUT, his titles have come with some pretty talented teams. I think there are better coaches in the league right NOW then him for sure. Now if he turns this current Laker group into champions...id give him more respect.
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Now if he turns this current Laker group into champions...id give him more respect.
exactly
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no
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Yes. Dont get me wrong, a championship is a championship. BUT, his titles have come with some pretty talented teams. I think there are better coaches in the league right NOW then him for sure. Now if he turns this current Laker group into champions...id give him more respect.
and that doesn't seem too far down the road, how can you guys not remember the lakers when phil just came back a couple years ago, and look at them now, drastic change
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No. Its jut that the dumber the players get the less effective his methods become.
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Yes. Dont get me wrong, a championship is a championship. BUT, his titles have come with some pretty talented teams. I think there are better coaches in the league right NOW then him for sure. Now if he turns this current Laker group into champions...id give him more respect.
and that doesn't seem too far down the road, how can you guys not remember the lakers when phil just came back a couple years ago, and look at them now, drastic change
im lookin at that too. Thats why i said id give him more respect if this current Laker team won a title. Honestly, if he could turn THIS Laker team into champions it would be a bigger accomplishment then ANY of his other titles by far.
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No. Its jut that the dumber the players get the less effective his methods become.
as with any coach. But previously Phil had the luxury of coaching Bulls teams with the best player to ever play the game...and a Lakers team with one of the best duo's of all time. His job was made a bit easier then. Look at some of those Bulls teams, you could put a chimp in there as coach and they would have won the title.
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no, anyone who can win 9 rings is a great coach
BUTTT
having MJ and Pippen for all those years is kinda easy to win with besides some decent role players like kukoc and rodman.
and getting to chose to go to a team with Shaq and Kobe is easy to do.
so i do see how some would question him because he's always had 2 stars on each team and when he hasn't had 2 stars his teams stink (ie 2005-06 and 06-07 lakers)
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no, anyone who can win 9 rings is a great coach
BUTTT
having MJ and Pippen for all those years is kinda easy to win with besides some decent role players like kukoc and rodman.
and getting to chose to go to a team with Shaq and Kobe is easy to do.
so i do see how some would question him because he's always had 2 stars on each team and when he hasn't had 2 stars his teams stink (ie 2005-06 and 06-07 lakers)
not just stars though. You had the best player of all time on his Bulls squads in MJ. Pippen who is one of the 50 greatest of all time. Rodman who maybe should be.
then you have Kobe. Even though I dont care for him, I would rate him the 2nd best 2 guard behind MJ. With him, Shaq...one of the most unstoppable players of all time.
So yeah, 9 rings....thats great. But how many rings would those teams combined have won without him? Who knows. My guess....9.
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lol can't argue against that
who knows
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I picked undecided but I think I gotta change my mind, phil got this current laker team in 3rd place in the west and 1.5 behind phoenix (soon to be 1.0 when phoenix looses tongiht) http://www.nba.com/standings/team_record_comparison/conferenceNew_Std_Cnf.html
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lol
homie
look at his rings
and hes lucky to have some of the most talented players under his belt
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
and pippen & kobe
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
and pippen & kobe
i know
but still
iverson and james is almost as good but there coaches dont have nine rings
he had good players but was also a good coach
have yall seen him in real life he looks like a beast (no homo)
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i know
but still
iverson and james is almost as good but there coaches dont have nine rings
he had good players but was also a good coach
have yall seen him in real life he looks like a beast (no homo)
[/quote]
i ain't tryna say he's a "bad" coach just a tad over-rated due to the amount of talent he had on those teams. iverson and james? they don't play on the same team though.
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i know
but still
iverson and james is almost as good but there coaches dont have nine rings
he had good players but was also a good coach
have yall seen him in real life he looks like a beast (no homo)
i ain't tryna say he's a "bad" coach just a tad over-rated due to the amount of talent he had on those teams. iverson and james? they don't play on the same team though.
[/quote]i know
like kobe and jordan didnt play on the same team
i aint comparing them to jordan by the way
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i know
but still
iverson and james is almost as good but there coaches dont have nine rings
he had good players but was also a good coach
have yall seen him in real life he looks like a beast (no homo)
i ain't tryna say he's a "bad" coach just a tad over-rated due to the amount of talent he had on those teams. iverson and james? they don't play on the same team though.
i know
like kobe and jordan didnt play on the same team
i aint comparing them to jordan by the way
[/quote]
i understand homie. but u said lbj and iverson coaches dont have 9 rings. but those 2 guys never really had the supporting cast jordan & kobe/shaq did. this ain't about 1 individual player, if phil won them 9 rings with kobe + an average or even normal supporting cast and jordan + an average or normal supporting cast, this topic would never be brought up.
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Managing super star ego's is a talent in itself....
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
and pippen & kobe
i know
but still
iverson and james is almost as good but there coaches dont have nine rings
he had good players but was also a good coach
have yall seen him in real life he looks like a beast (no homo)
i will say this
Larry Brown > Phil Jackson
and same with Big Red RIP ofcourse
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Managing super star ego's is a talent in itself....
true, but not like those lakers never had problems in the locker room. granted they still won tho.
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Managing super star ego's is a talent in itself....
and look at what happened
he quit and wrote a book about Kobe and then came back and hasnt won since :laugh:
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
and pippen & kobe
i know
but still
iverson and james is almost as good but there coaches dont have nine rings
he had good players but was also a good coach
have yall seen him in real life he looks like a beast (no homo)
i will say this
Larry Brown > Phil Jackson
and same with Big Red RIP ofcourse
How many rings would Red have won without Russell? Of course the answer is, we don't know... but it's no secret that great talent always goes hand in hand with good coaches winning, because at the end of the day it is up to the players to win.... but someone has to inspire them and help them out when the pressue is on, and that's a key role for a great coach. Guidance, confidence, and strategy....
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Managing super star ego's is a talent in itself....
and look at what happened
he quit and wrote a book about Kobe and then came back and hasnt won since :laugh:
After guiding them to several championships.... Failures happen with success too.
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Managing super star ego's is a talent in itself....
true, but not like those lakers never had problems in the locker room. granted they still won tho.
they had their problems..... which is why managing them to success wasn't as easy as most people think it is...
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Managing super star ego's is a talent in itself....
true, but not like those lakers never had problems in the locker room. granted they still won tho.
they had their problems..... which is why managing them to success wasn't as easy as most people think it is...
very true.
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
and pippen & kobe
i know
but still
iverson and james is almost as good but there coaches dont have nine rings
he had good players but was also a good coach
have yall seen him in real life he looks like a beast (no homo)
i will say this
Larry Brown > Phil Jackson
and same with Big Red RIP ofcourse
How many rings would Red have won without Russell? Of course the answer is, we don't know... but it's no secret that great talent always goes hand in hand with good coaches winning, because at the end of the day it is up to the players to win.... but someone has to inspire them and help them out when the pressue is on, and that's a key role for a great coach. Guidance, confidence, and strategy....
do some research on Big Red and learn about what he did man
he was the first guy to take the "risk" of fielding 5 black players for his starting lineup. its sad because america was so fucked up back then but NObody thought blacks could compete with whites except for the elite ones. he proved he had a whole line up that could do it.
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you cant argue LArry Brown over JAckson
beat him head to head in 2004
Brown won an NBA Finals AND the NCAA tourny, and the pistons havent been as good since he left.
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Larry Brown > Phil Jackson
LMFAO!
Anyone who thinks Phil is overrated is dumb. Check his career wins and winning percentage. He helped mold players like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Pippen, Rodman, etc. into what they were. He defined everyones role to a science like no other coach could. Look at the Kobe-Shaq Lakers before Phil came along...Look at the Jordan-Pippen Bulls before Phil came along. Phil is the person who took these players to the next level...Calling him overrated is insane. Greatest coach ever.
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
and pippen & kobe
i know
but still
iverson and james is almost as good but there coaches dont have nine rings
he had good players but was also a good coach
have yall seen him in real life he looks like a beast (no homo)
i will say this
Larry Brown > Phil Jackson
and same with Big Red RIP ofcourse
How many rings would Red have won without Russell? Of course the answer is, we don't know... but it's no secret that great talent always goes hand in hand with good coaches winning, because at the end of the day it is up to the players to win.... but someone has to inspire them and help them out when the pressue is on, and that's a key role for a great coach. Guidance, confidence, and strategy....
do some research on Big Red and learn about what he did man
he was the first guy to take the "risk" of fielding 5 black players for his starting lineup. its sad because america was so fucked up back then but NObody thought blacks could compete with whites except for the elite ones. he proved he had a whole line up that could do it.
wow...and what does that have to do with great coaching? so he wasn't racist, yipeee! The Celtics won when Bill Russell was the head coach, too. LOL. Phil>>>>>>>Red>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Larry Brown.
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you cant argue LArry Brown over JAckson
beat him head to head in 2004
Brown won an NBA Finals AND the NCAA tourny, and the pistons havent been as good since he left.
Umm... Larry Brown lost to Jackson when he was the coach of the Sixers.
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you cant argue LArry Brown over JAckson
beat him head to head in 2004
Brown won an NBA Finals AND the NCAA tourny, and the pistons havent been as good since he left.
Umm... Larry Brown lost to Jackson when he was the coach of the Sixers.
who had MJ?
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you cant argue LArry Brown over JAckson
beat him head to head in 2004
Brown won an NBA Finals AND the NCAA tourny, and the pistons havent been as good since he left.
Umm... Larry Brown lost to Jackson when he was the coach of the Sixers.
who had MJ?
Neither of them... It was the Lakers vs. the Sixers...
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LMAO. Hack Wilson is something else.
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you cant argue LArry Brown over JAckson
beat him head to head in 2004
Brown won an NBA Finals AND the NCAA tourny, and the pistons havent been as good since he left.
Umm... Larry Brown lost to Jackson when he was the coach of the Sixers.
who had MJ?
Neither of them... It was the Lakers vs. the Sixers...
ahh 2000 or 01 i forgot about that year 8)
AI takes the weakest team ever to a finals and wins game 1 and acts like he just won game 4 lol
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Damnit, NIK. You keep beating me to the responses. You must be able to navigate dubcc blindfolded after 6 years.
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you cant argue LArry Brown over JAckson
beat him head to head in 2004
Brown won an NBA Finals AND the NCAA tourny, and the pistons havent been as good since he left.
Umm... Larry Brown lost to Jackson when he was the coach of the Sixers.
who had MJ?
Neither of them... It was the Lakers vs. the Sixers...
LMFAO hack u the homie, but that shit right there is PRICELESS :D
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Some of you dont understand the idea of being overrated. You can be good, or even great at what you do....and still be overrated. I say he is overrated, but that doesnt mean I think he isnt a good coach. I just think that there are other coaches that could have been put into the positions Phil was in, and they would have won just as many titles.
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Some of you dont understand the idea of being overrated. You can be good, or even great at what you do....and still be overrated. I say he is overrated, but that doesnt mean I think he isnt a good coach. I just think that there are other coaches that could have been put into the positions Phil was in, and they would have won just as many titles.
that's pretty much what i'm sayin. over-rated don't mean he sucks ass.
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Some of you dont understand the idea of being overrated. You can be good, or even great at what you do....and still be overrated. I say he is overrated, but that doesnt mean I think he isnt a good coach. I just think that there are other coaches that could have been put into the positions Phil was in, and they would have won just as many titles.
I doubt many (if any) coaches woulda been able to put his dysfunctional teams in check like he did...AND threepeat three times with them.
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Some of you dont understand the idea of being overrated. You can be good, or even great at what you do....and still be overrated. I say he is overrated, but that doesnt mean I think he isnt a good coach. I just think that there are other coaches that could have been put into the positions Phil was in, and they would have won just as many titles.
I doubt many (if any) coaches woulda been able to put his dysfunctional teams in check like he did...AND threepeat three times with them.
i didnt say many. but then again, i dont know if he would have coached the Heat to a title....or the Pistons to a title over the Lakers.
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Phil > *Insert Coach Name*
end of.
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
Are you saying Auerbach's Celtics sucked?
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
Are you saying Auerbach's Celtics sucked?
no but Red didn't get to choose the situation he wanted to walk into
he didn't just say "hey they have shaq and kobe? im going there"
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
Are you saying Auerbach's Celtics sucked?
no but Red didn't get to choose the situation he wanted to walk into
he didn't just say "hey they have shaq and kobe? im going there"
Phil didn't either...Nobody knew he was gunna be a great coach on the Bulls.
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How the fuck can you say a guy who won 9 (NINE) rings is overrated?
because he had MJ and Shaq to work with?
Are you saying Auerbach's Celtics sucked?
no but Red didn't get to choose the situation he wanted to walk into
he didn't just say "hey they have shaq and kobe? im going there"
1) He didn't chose to coach the Bulls.
2) He already had 6 rings when he went to Los Angeles. And MJ said multiple times he was been a major factor. So much that when Phil left, MJ retired.
3) The Lakers gave him the job cause even if they had arguably the most skilled team in the NBA, their coaches weren't good enought to bring some titles to L.A.
So having Shaq in your team helps, but isn't enought (just ask Harris, Hill, etc..)
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Phil > *Insert Coach Name*
end of.
so the Lakers lack of success the last few years is whos fault? Kobes or Phils?
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Phil > *Insert Coach Name*
end of.
so the Lakers lack of success the last few years is whos fault? Kobes or Phils?
neither, its the supporting cast
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Phil > *Insert Coach Name*
end of.
so the Lakers lack of success the last few years is whos fault? Kobes or Phils?
neither, its the supporting cast
LOL!! gotta love it.
Phils genius and Kobe's great play is responsible for all the victories....but the supporting cast is responsible for the losses. Way to hold your superstar and the COACH responsible. Now THAT is what you call leadership lol
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Just take a look at the Lakers now, see its difficult for all you to understand because you don't follow the Lakers like we do and you don't watch every game. But what has changed over the last couple of years is that our supporting cast has developed. Phil has BEEN the hall of fame coach that he has been and Kobe's BEEN in his prime the last few years. Now Bynum is developing, Fisher is back. etc etc
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Phil > *Insert Coach Name*
end of.
so the Lakers lack of success the last few years is whos fault? Kobes or Phils?
neither, its the supporting cast
LOL!! gotta love it.
Phils genius and Kobe's great play is responsible for all the victories....but the supporting cast is responsible for the losses. Way to hold your superstar and the COACH responsible. Now THAT is what you call leadership lol
hahaha man i wish i could +1 you for that too but it wont let me
you cant have the best coach AND player and lose in the first round.
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Just take a look at the Lakers now, see its difficult for all you to understand because you don't follow the Lakers like we do and you don't watch every game. But what has changed over the last couple of years is that our supporting cast has developed. Phil has BEEN the hall of fame coach that he has been and Kobe's BEEN in his prime the last few years. Now Bynum is developing, Fisher is back. etc etc
which will turn into a title when?
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Just take a look at the Lakers now, see its difficult for all you to understand because you don't follow the Lakers like we do and you don't watch every game. But what has changed over the last couple of years is that our supporting cast has developed. Phil has BEEN the hall of fame coach that he has been and Kobe's BEEN in his prime the last few years. Now Bynum is developing, Fisher is back. etc etc
which will turn into a title when?
within the next few years
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Just take a look at the Lakers now, see its difficult for all you to understand because you don't follow the Lakers like we do and you don't watch every game. But what has changed over the last couple of years is that our supporting cast has developed. Phil has BEEN the hall of fame coach that he has been and Kobe's BEEN in his prime the last few years. Now Bynum is developing, Fisher is back. etc etc
which will turn into a title when?
within the next few years
you understand that will more then likely have to be without Phil, Kobe....or both right? lol
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I thought Phil was one of the greatest Coaches when he was with Chicago. Him winning three more with the Lakers was icing on the cake. Winning 6 titles in 8 years is nuts.
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Just take a look at the Lakers now, see its difficult for all you to understand because you don't follow the Lakers like we do and you don't watch every game. But what has changed over the last couple of years is that our supporting cast has developed. Phil has BEEN the hall of fame coach that he has been and Kobe's BEEN in his prime the last few years. Now Bynum is developing, Fisher is back. etc etc
which will turn into a title when?
within the next few years
you understand that will more then likely have to be without Phil, Kobe....or both right? lol
why's that? Kobe isn't even 30 yet and Phil is going to be around for a few more.
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I thought Phil was one of the greatest Coaches when he was with Chicago. Him winning three more with the Lakers was icing on the cake. Winning 6 titles in 8 years is nuts.
whether or not he's great really has nothing to do with whether or not he is overrated though. I dont seem to recall too many Laker fans riding his nuts as the greatest coach of all time though, until he came to the Lakers. Hmmm...guess thats kind of the same way they hung off of Shaqs while he was a Laker, then changed their tune once he left.
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I thought Phil was one of the greatest Coaches when he was with Chicago. Him winning three more with the Lakers was icing on the cake. Winning 6 titles in 8 years is nuts.
whether or not he's great really has nothing to do with whether or not he is overrated though. I dont seem to recall too many Laker fans riding his nuts as the greatest coach of all time though, until he came to the Lakers. Hmmm...guess thats kind of the same way they hung off of Shaqs while he was a Laker, then changed their tune once he left.
all within reason though. Shaq starting playing like shit when he left. Phil won 3 more rings with us.
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I thought Phil was one of the greatest Coaches when he was with Chicago. Him winning three more with the Lakers was icing on the cake. Winning 6 titles in 8 years is nuts.
whether or not he's great really has nothing to do with whether or not he is overrated though. I dont seem to recall too many Laker fans riding his nuts as the greatest coach of all time though, until he came to the Lakers. Hmmm...guess thats kind of the same way they hung off of Shaqs while he was a Laker, then changed their tune once he left.
That's an assumption on your part tho, probably based on whatever Laker fans you were exposed to 8 years ago when Phil came aboard. I for one thought he was a great coach with The Bulls. Was I cheering for him then? Of course not. I never cheer the competition. Respect? Sure. I know other Laker fans who did too.
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Jookin
Oh of course none of these Laker Fan Boys would be saying Phil was great when he was with Chicago. They probably hated him and thought Pat Riley (Who they probably hate now) was the best! Or maybe even Dunleavy or Del Harris (LOL).
Phil with the Bulls >>>> Phil with the Lakers
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I couldn't stand Dunleavy or Harris... or Rambis even though he was a hustler as a player. I respected Rudy T. but wasn't sure if he was a good fit. Riley is a class act... Anybody hating on him is ridiculous. I don't cheer him like I did when he was a Laker, but I don't feel as though I am expected to.
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I thought Phil was one of the greatest Coaches when he was with Chicago. Him winning three more with the Lakers was icing on the cake. Winning 6 titles in 8 years is nuts.
from 1958-59 to 65-66 Red won it every year. 8 titles in 8 years.
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Phil > *Insert Coach Name*
end of.
so the Lakers lack of success the last few years is whos fault? Kobes or Phils?
neither, its the supporting cast
LOL!! gotta love it.
Phils genius and Kobe's great play is responsible for all the victories....but the supporting cast is responsible for the losses. Way to hold your superstar and the COACH responsible. Now THAT is what you call leadership lol
hahaha man i wish i could +1 you for that too but it wont let me
you cant have the best coach AND player and lose in the first round.
Really? You think Jordan woulda won rings leading the past 2 Laker squads? LMAO. You Laker haters need help.
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I thought Phil was one of the greatest Coaches when he was with Chicago. Him winning three more with the Lakers was icing on the cake. Winning 6 titles in 8 years is nuts.
from 1958-59 to 65-66 Red won it every year. 8 titles in 8 years.
And then when he left, Bill Russell took over as head coach and kept winning. LOL.
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I thought Phil was one of the greatest Coaches when he was with Chicago. Him winning three more with the Lakers was icing on the cake. Winning 6 titles in 8 years is nuts.
from 1958-59 to 65-66 Red won it every year. 8 titles in 8 years.
And then when he left, Bill Russell took over as head coach and kept winning. LOL.
bill wash - george seifert
LOL? ::)
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okay?
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do you not follow football at all?
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we're talking basketball here, hack. LOL
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do you not follow football at all?
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this dude was so confused
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do you not follow football at all?
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this dude was so confused
yeah, i guess he doesn't know anything outside of basketball
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I don't follow football, though I watch it occasionally. I'm sure it has something to do with Bill Walsh handing the 49ers over to that other dude, but stick to the topic.
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I don't follow football, though I watch it occasionally. I'm sure it has something to do with Bill Walsh handing the 49ers over to that other dude, but stick to the topic.
thats what i mean
great coaches can follow great coaches
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Bill Russell was not a coach. LOL. That team was just dominant and Russell was a beast. Point is, Red was a great coach and so was Phil. Neither was overrated IMO.
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i didnt vote for either of them being over rated either lol
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NO but you can say he always had very good teams and picked his spots.
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Bill Russell was not a coach. LOL. That team was just dominant and Russell was a beast. Point is, Red was a great coach and so was Phil. Neither was overrated IMO.
seifert wasn't a great coach either but he got credit for winning with someone else's players
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NO but you can say he always had very good teams and picked his spots.
Yeah. The thing is, Jordan and his talented squad didn't win it all until Phil came aboard. Kobe and Shaq didn't win until Phil was the coach. Of course he got kind of lucky for always having such talented teams, but he is a proven winner. His track record is amazing, one of the great coaches of all-time.
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NO but you can say he always had very good teams and picked his spots.
Yeah. The thing is, Jordan and his talented squad didn't win it all until Phil came aboard. Kobe and Shaq didn't win until Phil was the coach. Of course he got kind of lucky for always having such talented teams, but he is a proven winner. His track record is amazing, one of the great coaches of all-time.
i agree, someone needs to captain the ship you know.
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NO but you can say he always had very good teams and picked his spots.
Yeah. The thing is, Jordan and his talented squad didn't win it all until Phil came aboard. Kobe and Shaq didn't win until Phil was the coach. Of course he got kind of lucky for always having such talented teams, but he is a proven winner. His track record is amazing, one of the great coaches of all-time.
i agree, someone needs to captain the ship you know.
Yeah....and fact is, there have been MANY teams to have great rosters that didn't win championships...with some not even reaching the playoffs. Even Phil's own team in 04 was amazing on paper, but they didn't win. Look at the 2000 Blazers, 02 Queens, 95 Magic, 05-07 Suns, and a lot of other teams that had major star power going for them. They came close, but none of them won ONE ring, let alone six and three. And the fact that he did it with two different teams who had completely different mentalities...it's some coaches who might be GREAT with one team, but they'll suck with another.