West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: mellowman on May 21, 2001, 07:21:44 PM
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i finally got a small reprieve for 2 days so i have some time to post a few things. first of all, i know y'all are just coming up with topics, but i think you should drop the daz/dre comparison. its unfair to dre and its really unfair to daz. thats probably half the reason daz lost focus and lost some of his edge the last few years. trying to equal dre is a virtually impossible thing to do. thats a lot of pressure to live up to. when dre left death row suge put so much pressure on daz it made daz lose control and start beefin with everybody and eventually his production skills started to drop. now daz is on his own and has no pressure and his latest work shows he still has the skills.daz is a very very good, if not great producer. but keep in mind dre taught daz how to produce.and also keep in mind that daz has a co producer named mike dean on this new stuff. this white cat is a talent. he was one of the main producers who helped rap-a-lot records blow up big time in the mid 90's. i'm not trying to take the credit away from daz but this boy has serious skills and deserves just as much credit as daz for their work together.mike plays a lot of instruments and is a dope producer. but make no mistake daz is not or never will be better than dre. just drop the comparison and appreciate daz for what he is. he can be your favorite producer but he is not better. if you like daz or some other producer more than dre, great. more power to you. every one has their own tastes and favorites. and everyone has their own opinions. so if dre is not your favorite i will never put you down for that. on the "is daz better than dre" post i read some comments by "the sheriff". i'm going to use his comments as reference for this post. if he is reading this,i'm only referring to your comments. this is nothing peronal and i am in no way trying to start a beef with you. that post mentioned a lot of producers supposedly on the same level or better than dre. and in fact a few of those producers he mentioned i like a lot. a few of them are very good. but when they are long forgotten dre will still be around. but a few of the producers mentioned are very questionable and in some cases VERY average or even weak.
there are thousands of talented producers in every genre of music, including hiphop. however a majority of rap productions are very basic and easy to do. a majority of rap producers take the easy way out and simply use somebody elses work to make a song.or they just throw together basic drum beats with no creativity or do not take the time to really mix the songs good. producers like puffy have really hurt the art form of rap and have even sent rap back a few years. its hard to defend rap as a respectable and true form of music when people like puffy are making music the way they are making it. and even now we would much rather listen to classic 60 and 70's soul and funk records instead of rap. not much in rap these days gets us excited. the videos, the topics and the materialism are starting to piss us off. and the lazines of a lot of producers and artits piss us off even more. virtually every record puffy does takes some one else's songs and turn them into his "new" songs. i dont consider what puffy and others do sampling, i consider it stealing. sampling is taking small portions of songs and mixing them together to create something that sounds original.people like pete rock and the bomb squad sampled. the bomb squad took literally thousands of tiny fragments of songs, noises, and instruments and mixed them together. that took talent. and great producers like rza and premier mix samples, nice drum breaks and abstract instruments to make their productions. but unfortunatelty most producers dont work real hard. old school rap sampled the right way. but even though that was acceptable then it really should not be now. rap is old enough to where it needs to expand, mature and CREATE new music from scratch. fortunately, people like dj quik, daz, mike dean, wyclef, rockwidler, timbaland, most def, hi-tek, battle cat,mel-man, and others are really trying to do that. unfortunatly, they are still outnumbered decisively. while the guys i just mentioned are great producers, they are not and never will be on dre's level.
continued on my reply
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no one will ever match the track record, the innovations and affect on rap production and style
that dre has had. and people who deny that or think someone else is better thn dre ARE NOT stupid or ignorant. . they just simply don't know the process of making music or have any idea what it takes to be a truly great producer. or they may just dislike dre and like somebody else more.or they may be jeolous, or maybe just haven't been around enough to witness the start of rap music to where it is now.and that is probably a majority of you.
what does it take to be a "legend"or "one of the best ever" producers. first of all they do not
sample, borrow, rework, copy or steal from other people. they instead use real instruments,
imagination and creativity to create and arrange new and original compositions with memorable
hooks and melodies. it takes a lot of blood,sweat and tears. it takes hard work and sacifice. it
takes a great set of ears that can process every sonic detail.it take a knowledge and understanding
of musical instruments, sounds and the human vocal chords. it takes a black hole of imagination. it
takes belief and confidence that the perfect production can be achieved. it takes an ability to find
talent. and when the talent is raw and unpolished it takes discipline, teamwork, leadership, experience and patience to develop and mold those artists into stars. to be legendary your music must at some point change the direction, sound and scope of a musical genre or music as a whole. you must have extreme focus. to be legendary you have to be constantly moving, changing, evolving, innovating and creating. you must be willing to take huge risks and go in a musical directions others cannot imagine, are scared to go, or unwilling to try. and most of all to be a legendary producer it takes consistently and longevity. and dr. dre meets all of those requirements. it puts dre in the company of men like sam phillips, sam cook, quincy jones and phil spector. and the proof is there. its there in the hundreds of consistently great songs in his catalogue. its there in the words and praise of others. you probably think i'm biased and i am. but i
have concurring opinions from some legendary people to back me up. people like quincy jones,
paul mccartney, jimmy iovine and others who have been witness to and been part of creating modern music that started in the 50's. and it continues to people of todays music like micheal jackson and madonna. and when some one like quincy jones says that you are the only producer today who could possibly produce a recording with frank sinatra and marvin gaye in their prime and make it as good as anything they ever did, that means you are a legend, considering that those two singers are arguably the 2 greatest vocalists ever.
in rap music dre has no equal. he does have some hungry and talented cats behind him stepping up
their games. this will force dre to step up his game and push dre to get even better. this will force
dre to push the boundaries and limits of his talent to hopefully reach new heights in sonic innovation. but no matter what happens from here on out, when dre leaves the studio for good he will be one of, and possibly even THE most influencial and talented record producer ever.
P.S.
for the risk of sounding preachy i will try to stick to just giving you guys info from now on. some
of you are probably tired of me and my long posts. so ill relax on my opinions and just give y'all the facts. im sorry if i offend anyone. i'm just trying to educate you on what production and music is all about. peace.
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That's cool how you set some peeps str8. I can totally agree with what you just said. Peace Mellow.
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yo thanks for the information Mellow... nice post
i was just curious to what you thought of Saukrates production... i think it's very tight... not as good as Dre but still really good and under rated
Peace
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excellent post mellow. took a minute but i enjoyed reading it.
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Thanks mellow,and we don't mind your opinion posts,that's part of what this board is all about especially if ya know whatcha talkin bout. Hey i'm just coincidentally asking in this post..the scene where mel-man is getting a blowjob in the up in smoke video: is that real? or was the chick just down there? anyone know?? peace-Tanjint
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im sure she was just down there.....lol
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Man..take as long of a post as you like...you are the closet thing we have to updated info about dre and the rest of the up in smoke peeps..........
thanks for the post....very informative..thank you....
Relax man..take a vacation...lol for your 2 days.......peace...
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Man, Thanks For Your Opinion; You're Biased, But You Acknowledge It, And You Intelligently Lay Down Your Argument, So That's Always Cool To Read...
We Been Tryna Tell These Peeps This Stuff Forever, Geesh....
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thanks for everyone's support. i will keep posting every once in a while,but like i said,ill keep most of them to new info and insights only. i've said enough about "you know who" and his label. they've gotten way more attention than they deserve. i think ive put the truth out in front of y'all and i know most of you believe me. those that don't will continue to believe what they want to believe and thats fine. and
and i think ive also talked enough about dre's greatness on 3 or 4 different posts. yes, i am biased but my opinion about dre is supported by facts and the opinions of various musical legends. and of course dre's 15 year catologue of genious is proof that will last forever. i've seen things you guys haven't.i know things you guys don't and i know the process of making records.
as far as taking a vacation these 2 days. believe me i am on a permanent vacation. and believe me i am ALWAYS relaxed and laid back like a muthafucka. so don't feel sorry for me at all. ive been a lot of places, i've got more than i need and im doing what i love to do. ill take an extended break in a year or so when the work is done. and i will continue to give you guys information and truths that you deserve to know. and dont be afraid to send me any questions you want. it may take a while to respond and i might not be able to answer a lot of questions but i will get back to you. later.
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hey man...coo.......u sound like u r working hard...much respect to you..for keeping the Real Funk alive.....peace.....man....
Yo....i am going to bug...if i hear something on a dre produce cut..and someone yells out whats up to the West Coast Affiliatez Forum...LOL......
keep funkin...
yo....i had a cgi timeout so i dont know how many times i might of posted this....sorry fellas if it is a couple of times...
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Alright, I got a question...Do you know of any Aftermath releases that are gaurenteed for the summer?
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do u know if Hittman is gunna ever drop? And if so, when?
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He Talked Aboutu That While You Were Gone Last Week, He Said It's A 50/50 Chance If Hitt Or Truth Drops.... Damn.....
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i know..if there are post that i do remember on here...its mellowman!!! yeah he already posted the 50/50 chance.....just hope that hittman is on some soundtracks...
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aside from what mellowman said the other week. I saw that the Hittman promo is out, and someone (I think Ka Rule? not sure) said he's on the next Soundbombing.
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can we get a ep or something......damn..wet our appetites..
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ya thats what was said at y2hiphop a while back n they r pretty reliable there
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damn why don't aftermath have their own official site anymore :( - it doesnt cost that much :(
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lol u know dre dont like the digital age...lol......internet stuff......lol
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LOL
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Yep...The promo is out, my friends cousin has it, and he wont let us listen to it...Well at least not me...
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remember the king t album was all ready to go and a promo was prepared, but at the last second dre pulled it. and a while back i did say that hittman getting released was 50/50. i think the last few weeks the chances have improved. i really hope dre releases it because it is very good in my opinion. but whether it will come out is still unknown, though. but keep your fingers crossed. and the reason hitmann is probably not on the interscope site is because he is NOT exclusive to aftermath.
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I agree Dre is a dope producer, but don't diss sampling. Sampling is a part of Hip-Hop whever you like it or not. Plus Dre has used samples many times in his productions.
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sorry if it sounds like i'm dissing sampling.yes it is a part of hip hop and will always be and yes dre did use samples a lot early on.and the chronic was basically replaying and expanding on samples. i give credit to people who sample in the post. i just think that rap is at a level and age now that its time to move away from sampling. and when i see people like puffy or will smith who sample an entire song and make it their own, like they did it, i get pissed cause it hurts our artform. a few days ago i saw a puffy produced song for faith evans that used the entire production from dre's phone tap. the beat barely changed and that was just a cut. i heard puff use the entire song "its funky enough" on another song. a lot of producers are lazy and basically aren't talented enough to make their own or at least use sampling creativitly. and i love old school rap that used sampling. but that was when rap was young and just strarting to evolve and tighten itself up. now its time to put our own creative print on music and follow people like dre who create everything from scratch. that was the point i was trying to make. hopefully this clears that up.thanks for bringing it up.
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I agree with mellowman but didn't Dre straight jack the Next Episode beat. To me that was one of the best beats on 2001.
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also Lets Get High sampled from an old song by FatBack
but i think if sampling is used creatively like mellow said, its all geezy. please just be bringin sumthin new to the table is my advice to any producers out there (u listening puff? lol)
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What? Puff is jackin "Phone Tap" now...this is wack y'all... :-/
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Feelin whatu talkin bout.....
NO OTHER PRODUCER has done it like him....& probably never will....
but as far as a ear for talent and production qualtiy,
i feel there are a cupple:
BROTHA LYNCH HUNG
FIRST DEGREE the DE
the RZA
ORGANIZED NOIZE
all producers who have ALL original music or use samples creatively
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I agree about just taking an old song and just rapping/singing over it, that aint cool. But if you use samples creativley then its totally diffrent. I have no problem with hip-hop producers starting from scratch, thats even better (Dre, Quik). Also I like the fact that Dre gives his musicians publishing of songs where they brought there own goods to the table.
But another thing to note is that Dre is quite rich and can afford to pay for instruments and musicians, whereas people just learning the game have to use there mpc2000xl etc... to create there own beats.
Also the pic of Mel-Man & Dre in the booklet of 2001 shows that they are still into sampling.
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bodyrott, you bring up a lot of good points and seem real knowledgable. keep it up. make no mistake dre is very open to using a sample if he thinks it will help a song or album blow up. (like The next episode). there are 3 samples on 2001,the rest is made from thin air using dre and mel-man's creativity and composition skills and knowledge of all the musical instruments and how to arrainge and mix everything together.and the musicians dre uses are incredibly talented and offer up a lot of ideas.they also make dres visions,basslines and sound ideas come alive.dre and mel do all the drums and some keyboards. dre will use his keyboard skills to give the musicians an idea of what he wants.dre hums a lot of things to the musicians . mel-man is real good at trying any sound he can think of and dre loves his drums. and also dre's ears are unbelievable. he can hear the smallest mistakes or notes that aren't quite right. its just amazing to watch him direct and lead and use his teammates talents to turn his visions into sonic realities. watching him on the eq and the mixer putting it all together is pure poetry and genious at work.
and dre and mel-man look anywhere and everywhere for ideas. the picture on 2001 shows them in a legendary 'dungeon" that has thousands upon thousands of lps. you can find the strangest and most obscure recordings imaginable there. its a music lovers dream. so yes dre is open to sampling and getting ideas and inspiration anywhere he can. but the goal is to be as original as possible. cause you cant go new places unless you envision and create it yourself. one of the saying around here is "innovation means that the best way to predict the future is to create it". and thats the focus and the perfect album is the goal. peace.
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yo..everytime i read a mellowman post.....i feel good....lol it helps pass the time till the next Dre aftermath release.......
thanks Mellowman..
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wheeww...took me a hot minute to read that ish...but tha homie Mellow come correct..propz homie...good shit, good shit
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hey have daz and dre ever been featured on anything together
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Yeah - Check out the Chronic
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Peace Mellowman, much love. I think you answered all the questions for me on this subject.