West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: jeromechickenbone on February 27, 2008, 08:43:06 PM
-
First off let me say that Kobe is the best player in the NBA. Anybody that argues that doesn't know what they are talking about. However, the Lakers have such a talented team and deep bench that if Kobe did indeed go down, they'd still make the playoffs in the West. To me, that doesn't make him MVP. He should probably have a couple of MVP's under his belt by now, but he doesn't. And now, eventhough his team is arguably the best team in the league, he has such an excellent supporting cast that the case for him being MVP is the weakest it's been in a few years imo.
To me, there is no player more valuable to his team than Chris Paul. Without him, the Hornets are easily a lottery team. With him, they are a threat to beat any team on a given night. Not that they are better than everyy team, but his presence on that team single handedly makes them a threat. If he's not on that team, they are Memphis bad. With him, they are legit.
-
he was the better point guard on the court tonight which is rare to say when phoenix is playing
-
Kobe is finally the MVP by todays standards (the best player on a top team) but I see they're quickly changing the standards. If Kobe doesn't win I want it to go to Chris Paul. Fuck Garnett, Nash, Nowitzki, etc.
-
Kobe is finally the MVP by todays standards (the best player on a top team) but I see they're quickly changing the standards. If Kobe doesn't win I want it to go to Chris Paul. Fuck Garnett, Nash, Nowitzki, etc.
-
This is how it is,
Kobe is the best player in the nba but Dwight Howard is the real mvp this yr.
Paul and Kobe are right behind though
-
As a Lakers fan , I think Kobe deserves it and wish he gonna get it .. NOW my bias put aside and from a fan of B-Ball as a whole, you definetely made valid points... I agree with the fact that without Paul on one side and Kobe on the other, the Lakers have a better roster .. Paul makes his teammates better without a doubt but it's on that point I disagree with you (when you said he has an excellent cast...) Kobe has an excellent cast BUT the majority of these players are efficient because of Kobe drawing attention and double teams .. Sasha, Fish, Ronny and Vlad would look a lot less efficient without Kobe on the court .. imo only Farmar, Odom and Gasol would be able to do what they are doing without reliyng THAT much on Kobe .. still with this thread you bring the most important thing: the MVP should be a two men race between Paul and Kobe .. I'd say give it to the player whose team has the best record at the end of the regular season ..
Now I agree that the rare moments Paul is on the bench , the Hornets looks like let's say a 30-35 wins team .. now the interesting thing is the following question for Jrome and others : with the current roster (considering Bynum and Ariza playing) minus Kobe , how many wins do u think the Lakers would get ?
-
First off let me say that Kobe is the best player in the NBA. Anybody that argues that doesn't know what they are talking about. However, the Lakers have such a talented team and deep bench that if Kobe did indeed go down, they'd still make the playoffs in the West. To me, that doesn't make him MVP. He should probably have a couple of MVP's under his belt by now, but he doesn't. And now, eventhough his team is arguably the best team in the league, he has such an excellent supporting cast that the case for him being MVP is the weakest it's been in a few years imo.
To me, there is no player more valuable to his team than Chris Paul. Without him, the Hornets are easily a lottery team. With him, they are a threat to beat any team on a given night. Not that they are better than everyy team, but his presence on that team single handedly makes them a threat. If he's not on that team, they are Memphis bad. With him, they are legit.
LMFAO...so Kobe doesn't get the MVP when he single-handedly carries his team to the playoffs and he doesn't get it when he leads the best team in the west? Then when the fuck does he get it? If Chris fucking Paul gets an MVP before Kobe, you KNOW something is wrong.
-
This is how it is,
Kobe is the best player in the nba but Dwight Howard is the real mvp this yr.
Paul and Kobe are right behind though
WOW...this is worse than saying Chris Paul deserves it. :-X
-
As a Lakers fan , I think Kobe deserves it and wish he gonna get it .. NOW my bias put aside and from a fan of B-Ball as a whole, you definetely made valid points... I agree with the fact that without Paul on one side and Kobe on the other, the Lakers have a better roster .. Paul makes his teammates better without a doubt but it's on that point I disagree with you (when you said he has an excellent cast...) Kobe has an excellent cast BUT the majority of these players are efficient because of Kobe drawing attention and double teams .. Sasha, Fish, Ronny and Vlad would look a lot less efficient without Kobe on the court .. imo only Farmar, Odom and Gasol would be able to do what they are doing without reliyng THAT much on Kobe .. still with this thread you bring the most important thing: the MVP should be a two men race between Paul and Kobe .. I'd say give it to the player whose team has the best record at the end of the regular season ..
Now I agree that the rare moments Paul is on the bench , the Hornets looks like let's say a 30-35 wins team .. now the interesting thing is the following question for Jrome and others : with the current roster (considering Bynum and Ariza playing) minus Kobe , how many wins do u think the Lakers would get ?
Seriously, how does Paul deserve the MVP over Kobe? Kobe is unquestionably the better player on unquestionably the better team...Chris Paul is in his 3rd season and Kobe is in his 12th season and Kobe STILL hasn't won the award. Don't you think it would be a little disgusting for Paul to get it when Kobe didn't get it these past 2 seasons in the exact same circumstance? To predict that the Lakers make the playoffs in the west without Kobe is absurd (considering Bynum and Ariza are out), when they barely made it WITH Kobe the past 2 seasons. Without Kobe, what separates this team from the Gasol led Memphis Grizzlies? Seriously...some of the shit I'm reading on here is ridiculous. Kobe needs an MVP and he needs it now...Both the Lakers and the Hornets would be in major trouble without their star players, but Kobe is by far the best player in the league and definitely needs an MVP before these young ass cats like Dwight and Paul...that's just mad disrespect. Kobe should be going on his 4th or 5th MVP by now...AT least let him get 1, Goddamnit.
-
i think paul is in a close second place with kobe right now but i still give it to kobe. #1 seed. two hot streaks on the season. i don't see him not getting it this year. he deserves it.....so FAR. we still got march and april to play
-
Now I agree that the rare moments Paul is on the bench , the Hornets looks like let's say a 30-35 wins team .. now the interesting thing is the following question for Jrome and others : with the current roster (considering Bynum and Ariza playing) minus Kobe , how many wins do u think the Lakers would get ?
If Kobe wasn't with the Lakers, Bynum, Gasol, & Odom could still lead the Lakers to the playoffs. Even in the West.
-
Paul is the man.
-
This is how it is,
Kobe is the best player in the nba but Dwight Howard is the real mvp this yr.
Paul and Kobe are right behind though
WOW...this is worse than saying Chris Paul deserves it. :-X
Lebron James 4 MVP Lmao at dwight howard being mentioned as a mvp candidate
-
Now I agree that the rare moments Paul is on the bench , the Hornets looks like let's say a 30-35 wins team .. now the interesting thing is the following question for Jrome and others : with the current roster (considering Bynum and Ariza playing) minus Kobe , how many wins do u think the Lakers would get ?
If Kobe wasn't with the Lakers, Bynum, Gasol, & Odom could still lead the Lakers to the playoffs. Even in the West.
How can you say that when teams like Houston, Denver, Golden State, Sacramento, and Portland are struggling for an 8th seed with their star players healthy? Bynum, Gasol, and Odom? are you kidding me? They're damn good players, but you don't have a clear-cut franchise star on that team...Bynum in a few years could definitely be a franchise player, but if the Lakers of last year barely made the playoffs WITH Kobe, what makes you think they'd make it with Gasol in his place? Especially with all the fucking injury problems we've had and especially considering how much stronger the west has gotten...
-
This is how it is,
Kobe is the best player in the nba but Dwight Howard is the real mvp this yr.
Paul and Kobe are right behind though
WOW...this is worse than saying Chris Paul deserves it. :-X
Lebron James 4 MVP
LeBron James 4 most overrated.
-
Lebron = the kobe stopper. i know u saw that 4th qtr on christmas or thanksgiving whenever it was
-
LeBron = the choker...let me know when he wins a game that means something.
-
Lebron willed his team to the finals last year while the lakers were out in the 1st round. dont give me that eastern conference bullshit either
-
LeBron didn't will shit. Did you read his own comments about that? He was lucky to be in the finals according to himself...and by the way, I was talking about games that mean something. What exactly did LeBron do in the finals when he got there? LOL...There you go.
Honestly, now...do you think LeBron is the MVP this year over Kobe?
-
Lebron willed his team to the finals last year while the lakers were out in the 1st round. dont give me that eastern conference bullshit either
We can't all be lucky enough to face a team like the Wizards (without Arenas & Butler). The Wizards are mediocre even with those 2 in the line-up so they really aint shiet without them.
-
Kobe just cannot win in the medias eyes.A few years ago they were saying he and the lakers didnt have to many wins to be considerd for the mvp.Then they said that he shot the ball to much even though he made an average team into a playoff team.No that the Lakers are on top with a good record they are saying "Ohh he didnt do it himself he had a good starting cast".Its just a damn shame we cannot really appreciate this man for what he has done and what he is currently doing.
My mvp goes
1.Kobe
2.Howard
3.C.Paul
4.K.Garnett
-
kobe is the real mvp right now, haters dont except the fact about it... lebron fans were like kobe fans like 2 years ago when kobe was ranked for mvp but didnt have many wins so nash got it... now that being said with a great team and getting his team involved the way we all seen so far this season and being a team with over 20+ games outa .500.. he is easily mvp this year.. seriously the man has done just about everything to deserve it and if he dont win it this year.. the league must be blind! 8)
-
kobe is the real mvp right now, haters dont except the fact about it... lebron fans were like kobe fans like 2 years ago when kobe was ranked for mvp but didnt have many wins so nash got it... now that being said with a great team and getting his team involved the way we all seen so far this season and being a team with over 20+ games outa .500.. he is easily mvp this year.. seriously the man has done just about everything to deserve it and if he dont win it this year.. the league must be blind! 8)
theres 9 teams in the west within 7 games of eachother
Kobe isn't creating the seperation that the Suns had
-
Suns = no rings.
Get it.
-
Now I agree that the rare moments Paul is on the bench , the Hornets looks like let's say a 30-35 wins team .. now the interesting thing is the following question for Jrome and others : with the current roster (considering Bynum and Ariza playing) minus Kobe , how many wins do u think the Lakers would get ?
If Kobe wasn't with the Lakers, Bynum, Gasol, & Odom could still lead the Lakers to the playoffs. Even in the West.
How can you say that when teams like Houston, Denver, Golden State, Sacramento, and Portland are struggling for an 8th seed with their star players healthy? Bynum, Gasol, and Odom? are you kidding me? They're damn good players, but you don't have a clear-cut franchise star on that team...Bynum in a few years could definitely be a franchise player, but if the Lakers of last year barely made the playoffs WITH Kobe, what makes you think they'd make it with Gasol in his place? Especially with all the fucking injury problems we've had and especially considering how much stronger the west has gotten...
Because Bynum, Vujacic, Farmar, and Turiaf have improved from last year. Add Gasol and Ariza to that equation and you have a playoff team.
-
Suns = no rings.
Get it.
(http://www.clublakers.com/wp-content/uploads/dantonimorph_cl_bdg.gif)
-
Now I agree that the rare moments Paul is on the bench , the Hornets looks like let's say a 30-35 wins team .. now the interesting thing is the following question for Jrome and others : with the current roster (considering Bynum and Ariza playing) minus Kobe , how many wins do u think the Lakers would get ?
If Kobe wasn't with the Lakers, Bynum, Gasol, & Odom could still lead the Lakers to the playoffs. Even in the West.
How can you say that when teams like Houston, Denver, Golden State, Sacramento, and Portland are struggling for an 8th seed with their star players healthy? Bynum, Gasol, and Odom? are you kidding me? They're damn good players, but you don't have a clear-cut franchise star on that team...Bynum in a few years could definitely be a franchise player, but if the Lakers of last year barely made the playoffs WITH Kobe, what makes you think they'd make it with Gasol in his place? Especially with all the fucking injury problems we've had and especially considering how much stronger the west has gotten...
Because Bynum, Vujacic, Farmar, and Turiaf have improved from last year. Add Gasol and Ariza to that equation and you have a playoff team.
Yes...Kobe finally has a true supporting cast. That doesn't mean they'd be in the playoffs without him, especially when a team like Denver can't even get into the playoffs at full strength. Come on, now. And with Bynum+Ariza going down, there'd DEFINITELY be no playoffs for LA.
-
Now I agree that the rare moments Paul is on the bench , the Hornets looks like let's say a 30-35 wins team .. now the interesting thing is the following question for Jrome and others : with the current roster (considering Bynum and Ariza playing) minus Kobe , how many wins do u think the Lakers would get ?
If Kobe wasn't with the Lakers, Bynum, Gasol, & Odom could still lead the Lakers to the playoffs. Even in the West.
How can you say that when teams like Houston, Denver, Golden State, Sacramento, and Portland are struggling for an 8th seed with their star players healthy? Bynum, Gasol, and Odom? are you kidding me? They're damn good players, but you don't have a clear-cut franchise star on that team...Bynum in a few years could definitely be a franchise player, but if the Lakers of last year barely made the playoffs WITH Kobe, what makes you think they'd make it with Gasol in his place? Especially with all the fucking injury problems we've had and especially considering how much stronger the west has gotten...
Because Bynum, Vujacic, Farmar, and Turiaf have improved from last year. Add Gasol and Ariza to that equation and you have a playoff team.
Yes...Kobe finally has a true supporting cast. That doesn't mean they'd be in the playoffs without him, especially when a team like Denver can't even get into the playoffs at full strength. Come on, now. And with Bynum+Ariza going down, there'd DEFINITELY be no playoffs for LA.
I'm saying when completely healthy the Lakers minus Kobe can make the playoffs. And I laugh at you of all people arguing this. Last year you said the Lakers bench was a potential playoff team.
-
Now I agree that the rare moments Paul is on the bench , the Hornets looks like let's say a 30-35 wins team .. now the interesting thing is the following question for Jrome and others : with the current roster (considering Bynum and Ariza playing) minus Kobe , how many wins do u think the Lakers would get ?
If Kobe wasn't with the Lakers, Bynum, Gasol, & Odom could still lead the Lakers to the playoffs. Even in the West.
How can you say that when teams like Houston, Denver, Golden State, Sacramento, and Portland are struggling for an 8th seed with their star players healthy? Bynum, Gasol, and Odom? are you kidding me? They're damn good players, but you don't have a clear-cut franchise star on that team...Bynum in a few years could definitely be a franchise player, but if the Lakers of last year barely made the playoffs WITH Kobe, what makes you think they'd make it with Gasol in his place? Especially with all the fucking injury problems we've had and especially considering how much stronger the west has gotten...
Because Bynum, Vujacic, Farmar, and Turiaf have improved from last year. Add Gasol and Ariza to that equation and you have a playoff team.
Yes...Kobe finally has a true supporting cast. That doesn't mean they'd be in the playoffs without him, especially when a team like Denver can't even get into the playoffs at full strength. Come on, now. And with Bynum+Ariza going down, there'd DEFINITELY be no playoffs for LA.
I'm saying when completely healthy the Lakers minus Kobe can make the playoffs. And I laugh at you of all people arguing this. Last year you said the Lakers bench was a potential playoff team.
WITH Kobe...Tell me which line up is better?
PG Derek Fisher
SG Sasha Vujacic
SF Lamar Odom
PF Pau Gasol
C Andrew Bynum
OR
PG Anthony Carter
SG Allen Iverson
SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Kenyon Martin
C Marcus Camby
Now ask yourself, are the Nuggets making the playoffs in the west? Do you even realize how tight the west currently is? The Phoenix Suns might not even make the playoffs...seriously, it's a stretch to say that the Lakers would make the playoffs minus Kobe.
-
It's amazing how badly the Nuggets do with that Starting 5.
-
Now ask yourself, are the Nuggets making the playoffs in the west?
Yes.
Do you even realize how tight the west currently is? The Phoenix Suns might not even make the playoffs...seriously, it's a stretch to say that the Lakers would make the playoffs minus Kobe.
I didn't say they are guaranteed to make the playoffs, but with Phil coaching it is possible. And I'm not talking about the "T-Wolves technically have a chance to make the playoffs" possible. I mean a legitimate shot possible. Don't forget Gasol led the Grizzlies to 3 consecutive playoffs.
-
Now ask yourself, are the Nuggets making the playoffs in the west?
Yes.
I mean currently...they are out of the playoffs.
-
chris paul has surpassed Nash as the best PG in the game i think
-
WITH Kobe...Tell me which line up is better?
PG Derek Fisher
SG Sasha Vujacic
SF Lamar Odom
PF Pau Gasol
C Andrew Bynum
OR
PG Anthony Carter
SG Allen Iverson
SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Kenyon Martin
C Marcus Camby
Now ask yourself, are the Nuggets making the playoffs in the west? Do you even realize how tight the west currently is? The Phoenix Suns might not even make the playoffs...seriously, it's a stretch to say that the Lakers would make the playoffs minus Kobe.
I thought you were very knowledgeable? I thought you realized that "on paper talent" does not translate into wins. The Nuggets have an amazing starting 5 on Paper, but in reality, they're just not that great together. The way Bynum was playing this season, coupled with Gasol and a great leader in D.Fish, that Lakers line up would be pretty good. I think it's funny how you're a "huge Laker fan" and big up all these cats like they're the best players in the game, but the moment it becomes a Kobe vs. Lakers thing, you have no faith in the Lakers and ride with Kobe.
-
WITH Kobe...Tell me which line up is better?
PG Derek Fisher
SG Sasha Vujacic
SF Lamar Odom
PF Pau Gasol
C Andrew Bynum
OR
PG Anthony Carter
SG Allen Iverson
SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Kenyon Martin
C Marcus Camby
Now ask yourself, are the Nuggets making the playoffs in the west? Do you even realize how tight the west currently is? The Phoenix Suns might not even make the playoffs...seriously, it's a stretch to say that the Lakers would make the playoffs minus Kobe.
I thought you were very knowledgeable? I thought you realized that "on paper talent" does not translate into wins. The Nuggets have an amazing starting 5 on Paper, but in reality, they're just not that great together. The way Bynum was playing this season, coupled with Gasol and a great leader in D.Fish, that Lakers line up would be pretty good. I think it's funny how you're a "huge Laker fan" and big up all these cats like they're the best players in the game, but the moment it becomes a Kobe vs. Lakers thing, you have no faith in the Lakers and ride with Kobe.
ANY team in the western conference playoff race wouldn't make the playoffs without their star player. That's common sense.
-
Chris Pauls numbers agenst the San Antonio Spurs...
26 PTS 17 AST 3 STLS
they beat them down by 25 points.. come on man no one could have predicted the hornets to be in the postion they are this time last year...
chris paul is amazing hes MVP in my eyes
kobe bryant is 6th in the league in turnovers..
-
Chris Pauls numbers agenst the San Antonio Spurs...
26 PTS 17 AST 3 STLS
they beat them down by 25 points.. come on man no one could have predicted the hornets to be in the postion they are this time last year...
chris paul is amazing hes MVP in my eyes
kobe bryant is 6th in the league in turnovers..
Are you tryna somehow imply that Chris Paul is better than Kobe? He's doing amazing things, no doubt, but he has some time before he's MVP. I honestly think he's closer to Deron Williams than he is to Kobe...PeACe
-
Chris Paul is one bad motherfucker and just destroyed us last night. :P
-
Paul has got the Hornets in virtually the same position as the Lakers right now. He's got strong players around him, but so does Kobe. I could see if there being a huge gap between Kobe and CP if the Hornets were playing making the playoffs, but they are only a half game behind the Lakers (and the Rockets). They're pretty much in the same place right now, IMO. Kobe is long over due for at least one MVP... but this season, with Paul playing like he is, it's gonna be tough...
-
the worst thing is Paul isn't in the medias MVP conversation :-X
-
Suns = no rings.
Get it.
(http://www.clublakers.com/wp-content/uploads/dantonimorph_cl_bdg.gif)
That Pringles shit is hilarious. And dead on too. ;D
-
WITH Kobe...Tell me which line up is better?
PG Derek Fisher
SG Sasha Vujacic
SF Lamar Odom
PF Pau Gasol
C Andrew Bynum
OR
PG Anthony Carter
SG Allen Iverson
SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Kenyon Martin
C Marcus Camby
Now ask yourself, are the Nuggets making the playoffs in the west? Do you even realize how tight the west currently is? The Phoenix Suns might not even make the playoffs...seriously, it's a stretch to say that the Lakers would make the playoffs minus Kobe.
I thought you were very knowledgeable?
thats where you thought wrong
-
Chris Paul is one bad motherfucker
lol he sure is.
-
Paul has got the Hornets in virtually the same position as the Lakers right now. He's got strong players around him, but so does Kobe. I could see if there being a huge gap between Kobe and CP if the Hornets were playing making the playoffs, but they are only a half game behind the Lakers (and the Rockets). They're pretty much in the same place right now, IMO. Kobe is long over due for at least one MVP... but this season, with Paul playing like he is, it's gonna be tough...
The teams are in the same position but Kobe is unquestionably the better individual player...People are starting to forget, MVP is not usually rewarded to the best player on the best team, but rather the best player in the league on a strong team...PeACe
-
WITH Kobe...Tell me which line up is better?
PG Derek Fisher
SG Sasha Vujacic
SF Lamar Odom
PF Pau Gasol
C Andrew Bynum
OR
PG Anthony Carter
SG Allen Iverson
SF Carmelo Anthony
PF Kenyon Martin
C Marcus Camby
Now ask yourself, are the Nuggets making the playoffs in the west? Do you even realize how tight the west currently is? The Phoenix Suns might not even make the playoffs...seriously, it's a stretch to say that the Lakers would make the playoffs minus Kobe.
I thought you were very knowledgeable?
thats where you thought wrong
You're the last person on here who can talk about knowledge.
-
The teams are in the same position but Kobe is unquestionably the better individual player...People are starting to forget, MVP is not usually rewarded to the best player on the best team, but rather the best player in the league on a strong team...PeACe
It's never about being the best player on the best team to me. It's about being the most valuable. Sometimes, just being the best isn't enough to be the most valuable. Look at the 96/97 season. It's about what they bring to their team and how well they are able to get their team to play WITH them. I think Paul is the best example of that. He's second in assists in the league and STILL leads his team in scoring. His performance increases, his team wins more. Kobe has performed at this level often, only difference is this season he has a better supporting cast to compliment his play. When determining the valuable-ness of a player, that's what I look at.
-
the NBA should change the name of the award ... the only sure thing imo is we can argue FOREVER about who's the MVP , give our different reasons but EVEN if we all were objective , I don't think we will reach a general agreement
-
The teams are in the same position but Kobe is unquestionably the better individual player...People are starting to forget, MVP is not usually rewarded to the best player on the best team, but rather the best player in the league on a strong team...PeACe
It's never about being the best player on the best team to me. It's about being the most valuable. Sometimes, just being the best isn't enough to be the most valuable. Look at the 96/97 season. It's about what they bring to their team and how well they are able to get their team to play WITH them. I think Paul is the best example of that. He's second in assists in the league and STILL leads his team in scoring. His performance increases, his team wins more. Kobe has performed at this level often, only difference is this season he has a better supporting cast to compliment his play. When determining the valuable-ness of a player, that's what I look at.
Almost every franchise player is just as valuable to their team...the difference is in who is better out of those difference-makers. And Kobe is clearly better than Chris Paul...PeACe
-
It's never about being the best player on the best team to me. It's about being the most valuable. Sometimes, just being the best isn't enough to be the most valuable. Look at the 96/97 season. It's about what they bring to their team and how well they are able to get their team to play WITH them. I think Paul is the best example of that. He's second in assists in the league and STILL leads his team in scoring. His performance increases, his team wins more. Kobe has performed at this level often, only difference is this season he has a better supporting cast to compliment his play. When determining the valuable-ness of a player, that's what I look at.
i agree with what your saying.
I feel Chris Paul should be the leagues MVP just because of the turn around he has provided to the hornets.. that being said im happy with kobe as an MVP as well.
-
The MVP award is a popularity contest Just like being An All-Star.
Shit, I could say that Either Andre be it Miller/Iguodala is the MVP! Imagine The Sixers Without Either of Them?
What about C.Bosh & Toronto, The Team Can't win without Him in The Lineup..
Maybe I'll give The MVP award To E.Brand Without Having Even played Once, It's Obvious he's the MVP of the Clippers..
Look at Their record and play Compared To having Him in The Lineup it's Like Night & Day.
Kobe, CP3, LeBron.....All MVP's of Their Teams.
The League MVP Should and will Go to the Player bringing in The Ratings and $
I say The MVP is Yao Ming, he's has The Highest rated basketball games in NBA History Twice this season.
;D
-
The MVP award is a popularity contest Just like being An All-Star.
Shit, I could say that Either Andre be it Miller/Iguodala is the MVP! Imagine The Sixers Without Either of Them?
What about C.Bosh & Toronto, The Team Can't win without Him in The Lineup..
Maybe I'll give The MVP award To E.Brand Without Having Even played Once, It's Obvious he's the MVP of the Clippers..
Look at Their record and play Compared To having Him in The Lineup it's Like Night & Day.
Kobe, CP3, LeBron.....All MVP's of Their Teams.
The League MVP Should and will Go to the Player bringing in The Ratings and $
I say The MVP is Yao Ming, he's has The Highest rated basketball games in NBA History Twice this season.
;D
Great point about Andre Miller.
-
The fact of the matter is Chris Paul is leading a team no one expected to make the playoffs to a possible number 1 seed in the west with no where near as good as a supporting cast as the lakers.. although kobe is the better individual player between the two its about who makes the players around him better. That is why Steve Nash won back to back years because he made the players around him better much like Chris Paul.
-
The fact of the matter is Chris Paul is leading a team no one expected to make the playoffs to a possible number 1 seed in the west with no where near as good as a supporting cast as the lakers.. although kobe is the better individual player between the two its about who makes the players around him better. That is why Steve Nash won back to back years because he made the players around him better much like Chris Paul.
Peja Stojakavic
Tyson Chandler
David West
and Mo Peterson
that's not a bad supporting cast...I expected them to make the playoffs. I admit, I didn't know they'd be this good, but you replace Chris Paul with Deron Williams, and New Orleans would be in just about the same situation. You wanna talk about making teammates better? Andre Miller is leading a team that was supposed to be amongst the worst in the league to the playoffs and a winning record. Is he the MVP? How 'bout what T-Mac has done with Houston ever since Yao went out? If Paul is MVP worthy, McGrady should be as well...I just don't see any arguments strong enough for why someone other than Kobe should win it...PeACe
-
Chris Paul is on a whole nother level then deron williams.. deron williams has a better suporting cast with carlos boozer and ak 47 ur a fool if u disagree
-
Chris Paul is on a whole nother level then deron williams.. deron williams has a better suporting cast with carlos boozer and ak 47 ur a fool if u disagree
Tyson Chandler, David West, & Peja Stojakavic > Carlos Boozer & Andrei Kirilenko
Chris Paul and Deron Williams are on the same level...Paul just gets more attention because he puts up those crazy stats and is more of a scorer, but Deron Williams is not far behind (if at all).
-
I really think Dwight should be right there with Paul and Kobe in these discussions. Kobe is easily the best in the league and he deserves the mvp but Paul and Howard are deserving aswell.
-
Had T-Mac been without Yao the entire season, then you might have a case here, NIK. But, that's not what happened. He had Yao backing him up. Poor arguement.
As for Andre Miller... the Sixers are just under .500 right now, as valuable as he may be to that team, his team isn't riding as high as the Hornets. So that's another poor arguement.
Williams is good, but Paul is better. It's easy to say that a Williams led Hornets team would do just as well, but you have no way of proving that so, that's yet another poor arguement.
Plain and simple... show us the pros and cons between Kobe and Paul. What makes Kobe that much more of a MVP candidate than Chris Paul.
-
Had T-Mac been without Yao the entire season, then you might have a case here, NIK. But, that's not what happened. He had Yao backing him up. Poor arguement.
As for Andre Miller... the Sixers are just under .500 right now, as valuable as he may be to that team, his team isn't riding as high as the Hornets. So that's another poor arguement.
Williams is good, but Paul is better. It's easy to say that a Williams led Hornets team would do just as well, but you have no way of proving that so, that's yet another poor arguement.
Plain and simple... show us the pros and cons between Kobe and Paul. What makes Kobe that much more of a MVP candidate than Chris Paul.
First of all, the Rockets have won something like 12 consecutive games without Yao, which should heighten his chance at MVP...Secondly, Andre Miller is playing for a much worse team than the Hornets. So yea, he's not in MVP discussion, but who's to say that he's not doing as much for his team as Chris Paul is doing for his? And lastly, there is no objective way of measuring how much a player contributes to his team, so saying Deron Williams would fare the same in Paul's shoes is not a stretch, but rather a valid analogy IMO. Just like you said Paul is 2nd in the league in assists and still leads his team in scoring, I can say Kobe is 2nd in the league in scoring, but still leads his team in assists...
And you want more pros and cons?
Kobe is a better player
Kobe is leading his team through a hand injury that requires surgery
Kobe is leading a SHORT-HANDED Laker team
Kobe is long overdue for an MVP award (and is playing the best ball of his career)
Kobe's team is the 3rd youngest in the league
Paul would not be in the same position if David West or Tyson Chandler were out for the season (ala Bynum)
Paul is yet to reach the playoffs or prove that he can win when it counts
Paul is amongst the best point guards in the league, but not the clear-cut best
Paul's defense is nowhere near the level of Kobe's defense
Paul has not achieved nearly as much as Kobe and, again, is not nearly as good a player
Is that good enough? I can go on forever...But the fact of the matter is, Kobe is the MVP. Chris Paul is a hell of a player, but he has a ways to go before he reaches Kobe status.
-
First of all, the Rockets have won something like 12 consecutive games without Yao, which should heighten his chance at MVP...Secondly, Andre Miller is playing for a much worse team than the Hornets. So yea, he's not in MVP discussion, but who's to say that he's not doing as much for his team as Chris Paul is doing for his? And lastly, there is no objective way of measuring how much a player contributes to his team, so saying Deron Williams would fare the same in Paul's shoes is not a stretch, but rather a valid analogy IMO. Just like you said Paul is 2nd in the league in assists and still leads his team in scoring, I can say Kobe is 2nd in the league in scoring, but still leads his team in assists...
In this streak, Yao went down after 12 straight. They've won 10 without him. 10 games does not equate an entire season to me. And, sure, Miller is very important to the Sixers, but since they're nowhere near where the Hornets are, speaks volumes about the leadership and how well that "valuable" player gets others involved. As for your last sentence, sure, Kobe is averaging 5 assists or so a game, which is leading his team, but that's not the same as Paul averaging about 22 points and 11 assists.
And you want more pros and cons?
Kobe is a better player
Poor arguement. Better player does not mean MVP. Again, Malone won MVP over Jordan.
Kobe is leading his team through a hand injury that requires surgery
That's great. He's able to work through an injury, doesn't really mean he's an MVP though.
Kobe is leading a SHORT-HANDED Laker team
Yes, we know Bynum went down and so did Mihm. But Gasol filled that void nicely. Short handed? Please. The bench is still as deep.
Kobe is long overdue for an MVP award (and is playing the best ball of his career)
So because he's long overdue for the award, he's supposed to get it?
Kobe's team is the 3rd youngest in the league
That does speak to his leadership, but then again, Paul is the leader of his team and he's the 2nd youngest.
Paul would not be in the same position if David West or Tyson Chandler were out for the season (ala Bynum)
How do you know that? Poor arguement.
Paul is yet to reach the playoffs or prove that he can win when it counts
Yes, he's yet to reach the playoffs, which they will be doing this year. Speaking volumes about his importance to the team. And we will see if can win when it counts this year. But, reaching the playoffs in other seasons or winning when it counts in other seasons holds no weight when considering the MVP of THIS season.
Paul is amongst the best point guards in the league, but not the clear-cut best
Look at what he's done against Nash each them they've played this season. That's clear to me.
Paul's defense is nowhere near the level of Kobe's defense
I'll give you that.
Paul has not achieved nearly as much as Kobe and, again, is not nearly as good a player
What does what a player has achieved have to do with being the MVP? Again, being a better player doesn't make you the MVP.
Is that good enough? I can go on forever...But the fact of the matter is, Kobe is the MVP. Chris Paul is a hell of a player, but he has a ways to go before he reaches Kobe status.
-
No matter what I say, you're gunna say "how do you know that?" or "poor argument"...What you don't see is that you can say that for anything...That's what opinions and analogies are about. Can they be questioned? Yes. Does that mean they're not legit opinions? Of course it doesn't. If I say Kobe is playing with a short handed team, you say we got Gasol (which means nothing, since we still are missing Ariza and are playing with Radmanovic in the starting line-up). If I say Kobe is playing through an injury, you say that it doesn't make him MVP. I say Kobe is a better player, you say that the best player is not the MVP...you have to realize that all those arguments DO factor into MVP consideration...sure, being the best player is not the only reason you give someone an MVP, but your individual level of play is definitely a large part of it. 22 points and 11 assists is amazing. But you got players like Deron Williams, Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Tony Parker etc. all who are on Paul's level...I wouldn't put ANYONE on Kobe's level, especially not at his position. To me, Kobe is having a better season than the one where he averaged 35+ PPG, and his stats are way down (still better than Paul's, though). That goes to show how little relevance stats have when measuring how good a player is...Let me hear your pros and cons for why Paul is the MVP over Kobe? this should be interesting...
-
No. That's not true. I gave you credit on valid arguements. You made arguements that either used past seasons or pure opinion and speculation as "proof." Facts don't lie.
Paul still has Peja, West and Chandler on his team this season. What has changed this season though is the fact that Paul has stepped up his game BIG time. He's beasting on assists and is still doing a great job scoring. Not to mention he's barely 23. This is only his third season in the league.
Last year, Kobe still was able to have a Playoff team, albeit just barely over .500. So, yes, they are in a different place. But, now they're not the same team anymore. Before going down, Bynum was playing well. Ariza came over to give a great spark to the team, as well. And yes, he went down, too. But, the addition of Gasol helped out all situations. It filled the void of a big man AND got rid of Kwame in one shot. Not to mention, Fisher is back home, bringing that veteran leadership. And don't forget the bench is still playing well. Kobe is 10+ year veteran himself with 3 Rings to his name, as a leader of a team he should be expected to do this well. Especially with Phil Jackson as his Coach. With Vlad starting they've not done bad, that's a fact.
-
I will say this about Kobe... this morning at 2 am. when the team plane landed in Dallas, he took Fisher, Farmer and Walton aside... brought them with him to the Dallas arena and had it opened, straight from the plane.. and had everybody shoot practice.
That's an MVP and beyond...
-
No. That's not true. I gave you credit on valid arguements. You made arguements that either used past seasons or pure opinion and speculation as "proof." Facts don't lie.
Paul still has Peja, West and Chandler on his team this season. What has changed this season though is the fact that Paul has stepped up his game BIG time. He's beasting on assists and is still doing a great job scoring. Not to mention he's barely 23. This is only his third season in the league.
Last year, Kobe still was able to have a Playoff team, albeit just barely over .500. So, yes, they are in a different place. But, now they're not the same team anymore. Before going down, Bynum was playing well. Ariza came over to give a great spark to the team, as well. And yes, he went down, too. But, the addition of Gasol helped out all situations. It filled the void of a big man AND got rid of Kwame in one shot. Not to mention, Fisher is back home, bringing that veteran leadership. And don't forget the bench is still playing well. Kobe is 10+ year veteran himself with 3 Rings to his name, as a leader of a team he should be expected to do this well. Especially with Phil Jackson as his Coach. With Vlad starting they've not done bad, that's a fact.
Those aren't pros and cons...and I didn't use anything as proof, again, I provided arguments. Accomplishments of the past do factor into MVP talks. That's why Jordan didn't get it for a couple seasons when he was supposed to, because the past was factored into the equation and the fact that MJ already got his share of MVPs in the past was considered...Paul did step his game up drastically, but still not enough to put him on Kobe's level. Kobe is the clear-cut MVP...I'm still waiting for you to provide arguments as to why he isn't.
-
MVP is not about individual performance its about the person who has become a drastically better player and a player who make the people around him drastically better. That being said if it was about individual performance lebron james would win due to the fact he is leading the league in scoring and he averages more rebounds and assist then kobe bryant. Just incase your curious about set in stone statisics not hypthetical statements that you say are "true" i will post them.
PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP PTS PPG REB RPG AST APG Total Avg
1 LeBron James , CLE 62 1,916 30.9 502 8.1 462 7.5 2,880 46.4
2 Kobe Bryant , LAL 67 1,892 28.2 408 6.1 353 5.3 2,653 39.6
Lebron James has played five fewer games and still has more points then kobe bryant
-
MVP is not about individual performance its about the person who has become a drastically better player and a player who make the people around him drastically better. That being said if it was about individual performance lebron james would win due to the fact he is leading the league in scoring and he averages more rebounds and assist then kobe bryant. Just incase your curious about set in stone statisics not hypthetical statements that you say are "true" i will post them.
PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP PTS PPG REB RPG AST APG Total Avg
1 LeBron James , CLE 62 1,916 30.9 502 8.1 462 7.5 2,880 46.4
2 Kobe Bryant , LAL 67 1,892 28.2 408 6.1 353 5.3 2,653 39.6
Lebron James has played five fewer games and still has more points then kobe bryant
It's about becoming a drastically better player? Funny, I thought that was what the MOST IMPROVED PLAYER award was for...The MVP has more to do with individual performances than becoming a drastically better player. LOL. LeBron carries the whole load on his team, which is why evaluating him based off of stats is retarded. Kobe is unquestionably a better scorer and a better defender than LeBron, so LeBron vs. Kobe as far as MVP talks goes should be done. Especially considering Kobe didn't get it the last two years because his team wasn't good enough...Number 1 in the talks is Kobe with an extremely distant Number 2 going to Paul.
-
^ your biased opinon makes me laugh
-
Yes...my opinion is biased...Everyone know LeBron is a better player than Kobe. :stupid: