West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: TraceOneInfinite Flat Earther 96' on March 31, 2008, 06:43:48 PM
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I will present 3 of what I believe to be mostly false assumptions/claims made by "positive" thinking advocates. This is supposed to be a respectful pshych/sociol discussion...
1. Positive thinking advocates say things like "happiness is all in the mind"... or "happiness is a mindstate". Well, I purpose that happiness is an INVOLUNTARY emotion resulting from bad or good experiences we encounter in our life.
If person A is able to go through a bad experience and stay happy and positive that things will get better it is because he has had past experiences where things have gotten better or met or known of others who have overcame or some past event, encounter or knowledge has given him this hope. I don't however believe that he "willed it" alltogether because I believe it to be involuntary.
2. Positive thinkers may be neglecting their true emotions or feelings about something, and this could cause wasted energy and time engaging in something that they would be better off leaving.
3. Positive thinkers believe it was their positive thinking that gave them success, when in reality, the reason they were able to remain confident in a difficult cirumstance may have actually been because of their abilities in that area.
4. Positive thinkers may be certain something will happen, and when it doesn't they could be left unprepared for a changing situation because their are always many possible outcomes for a situration that one needs to be aware of.
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I will present 3 of what I believe to be mostly false assumptions/claims made by "positive" thinking advocates. This is supposed to be a respectful pshych/sociol discussion...
1. Positive thinking advocates say things like "happiness is all in the mind"... or "happiness is a mindstate". Well, I purpose that happiness is an INVOLUNTARY emotion resulting from bad or good experiences we encounter in our life.
If person A is able to go through a bad experience and stay happy and positive that things will get better it is because he has had past experiences where things have gotten better or met or known of others who have overcame or some past event, encounter or knowledge has given him this hope. I don't however believe that he "willed it" alltogether because I believe it to be involuntary.
2. Positive thinkers may be neglecting their true emotions or feelings about something, and this could cause wasted energy and time engaging in something that they would be better off leaving.
3. Positive thinkers believe it was their positive thinking that gave them success, when in reality, the reason they were able to remain confident in a difficult cirumstance may have actually been because of their abilities in that area.
4. Positive thinkers may be certain something will happen, and when it doesn't they could be left unprepared for a changing situation because their are always many possible outcomes for a situration that one needs to be aware of.
I am far from a positive thinker and I am probably the most cynical 23 year old you will meet if not one of the most negative and cynical people you will meet in general but you sound jealous that some people are able to keep a positive mind set. I know plenty of people that have been dealt a shitty hand in life and keep a positive mind set. And it's not a knock on you I'm just going from what we have discussed on AIM and what you have discussed here, but people that have been dealt a much shittier hand in life then you have. And they can keep a positive frame of mind. Not saying they are always positive b/c we all have our moments. But they have been through the storm time and time again and they refuse to let negative thoughts consume them. And thats not b/c at one point life was easy or they are just tricking themselves. They realize negative thoughts wont get you anywhere. And that it can always be worse.
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Dont get me wrong though, plenty of people are able to keep a positive state of mind b/c they have been dealt a good hand in life. People that don't know what it's like to struggle or whatever. But it's not fair to lump those that weather and battle the storm everyday into the groups you listed.
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This just shows how you don't have much hope in life.
Religion for example is practiced to create hope, it is hope that eventually creates a positive outlook on life, and that will eventually build one's character. Happiness can most definitely be a decision if you chose it to be.
Don't worry though, most Muslims don't believe in a positive outlook, so you are doing a good job in that department.
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To answer Tom, its not neccasarily that the person may have had a better or worse life. Maybe the "positive" thinker has had a worse life and therefore he has the confidence that he can overcome adversity. Or maybe he has had a better life and so he has confidence that he can be happy cause he knows most of his life he has been happy so he has the confidence that it will come again.
Either way, my point is that it is experiences that determine happiness.
And Rod, I'm talking about real happiness not simply saying you major and this and that so many times that people might believe it and give you cred.
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So it is experience that determines happiness, whether the experience is a bad or good, right? Therefore people with no experience don't know how to have a positive mind-state. And who are we talking about here again? I'm guessing little kids in pre-school.
And what "real" happiness is to you may not be as "real" to others. And if your comment about being "major" is towards me, I have no idea what you're talking about.
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I will present 3 of what I believe to be mostly false assumptions/claims made by "positive" thinking advocates. This is supposed to be a respectful pshych/sociol discussion...
1. Positive thinking advocates say things like "happiness is all in the mind"... or "happiness is a mindstate". Well, I purpose that happiness is an INVOLUNTARY emotion resulting from bad or good experiences we encounter in our life.
If person A is able to go through a bad experience and stay happy and positive that things will get better it is because he has had past experiences where things have gotten better or met or known of others who have overcame or some past event, encounter or knowledge has given him this hope. I don't however believe that he "willed it" alltogether because I believe it to be involuntary.
2. Positive thinkers may be neglecting their true emotions or feelings about something, and this could cause wasted energy and time engaging in something that they would be better off leaving.
3. Positive thinkers believe it was their positive thinking that gave them success, when in reality, the reason they were able to remain confident in a difficult cirumstance may have actually been because of their abilities in that area.
4. Positive thinkers may be certain something will happen, and when it doesn't they could be left unprepared for a changing situation because their are always many possible outcomes for a situration that one needs to be aware of.
I'll give a more in depth response when I aint as loaded as I am now, but you CAN choose to be happy, and thinking positive makes you more likely to be happy. The hardest part is training yourself to be a positive thinker. I didn't believe it either until I took a couple psych classes and learned a few things...
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So it is experience that determines happiness, whether the experience is a bad or good, right? Therefore people with no experience don't know how to have a positive mind-state. And who are we talking about here again? I'm guessing little kids in pre-school.
And what "real" happiness is to you may not be as "real" to others. And if your comment about being "major" is towards me, I have no idea what you're talking about.
I'm talkin about every one of your songs where you brag about selling drugs and pushin wieght and being major in the streets and then try to play it off with that cliché "mama I'm trying to get out the game, Lord help this thug"...
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oh yeah? show me those songs where I'm bragging.. even if I did somewhere, you could never understand any of it even though you think you have a good idea watching your hip hop documentaries about the streets on your TV screen. We're talking about people's ability to have a positive outlook on life here, stick to the subject.
It is possible for anyone to have a positive outlook no matter how high or low their life has headed towards. It is a decision that reflects on the atmosphere and usually determines where your life will end up.
You wanna talk about major? How bout making thousands upon thousands of dirty money, retiring from the game, then having it bite you in the ass 6 months later by spending 80% of your savings from the past few years on the biggest bail ever heard of to get out of jail for a crime you never really committed but can go down 10 years to life for it. You learn the biggest lesson about karma, and you really have no reason to be happy for shit, but your positive outlook and your faith in god is what keeps you sane. I'm still out on the scene living the good life like nothing happened.
Without a firm decision on feeling happy, you could sit in your room and rot, go for another big score or just end your life. But you have to fight emotions, the brain has the ability to do this, it just needs training and self-control.
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LMFAO, I love this nigga. LMAO Infinite. But yeah, I hear this right here. Niggas who live thru thoughts should be sad for themselves. I mean come on, get REAL. Do you understand how many THOUGHTS A DAY WE GO THRU?! WE HAVE?! Everything happens for a reason, what's supposed to happen will happen no matter how much you try and change that wit A fuckin' THOUGHT. Niggas who think positive thinking works wonders, makes to 'achieve' what you want, NAH, it don't. Point blank. It's all bullshit.
2, 3, & 4 is on some real. 'Think positive, think positive', nah you think positive nigga. ::)
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oh yeah? show me those songs where I'm bragging.. even if I did somewhere, you could never understand any of it even though you think you have a good idea watching your hip hop documentaries about the streets on your TV screen. We're talking about people's ability to have a positive outlook on life here, stick to the subject.
It is possible for anyone to have a positive outlook no matter how high or low their life has headed towards. It is a decision that reflects on the atmosphere and usually determines where your life will end up.
You wanna talk about major? How bout making thousands upon thousands of dirty money, retiring from the game, then having it bite you in the ass 6 months later by spending 80% of your savings from the past few years on the biggest bail ever heard of to get out of jail for a crime you never really committed but can go down 10 years to life for it. You learn the biggest lesson about karma, and you really have no reason to be happy for shit, but your positive outlook and your faith in god is what keeps you sane. I'm still out on the scene living the good life like nothing happened.
Without a firm decision on feeling happy, you could sit in your room and rot, go for another big score or just end your life. But you have to fight emotions, the brain has the ability to do this, it just needs training and self-control.
You don't brag about being major in the streets in your song... you do the whole... "Lord get me out the game... Mama, I'm trying to do right but these streets is hard.. gota' sell drugs to feed mama"... and think that passes for deep or something but it really sounds like a Persian dude trying really hard to biuld street cred.
And I was staying on subject. Your the one that took it to personal, like always.
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Selling drugs to feed mama? bwahahah LOL, just stop.. you wouldn't grasp what some people go through because you simply don't have the ability to put yourself in another man's shoes. Religion is supposed to give you that skill, but it obviously doesn't work for the majority, just look at the world, then look in the mirror. And this thread's a joke, there is no point to it, you're not saying much, all you're doing is confusing yourself even more. The majority of threads you make is out of confusion, it's sad. Take it easy.
Positive thinking might not work for all, but respect the ones that it does work for.
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Selling drugs to feed mama? bwahahah LOL, just stop.. you wouldn't grasp what some people go through because you simply don't have the ability to put yourself in another man's shoes. Religion is supposed to give you that skill, but it obviously doesn't work for the majority, just look at the world, then look in the mirror. And this thread's a joke, there is no point to it, you're not saying much, all you're doing is confusing yourself even more. The majority of threads you make is out of confusion, it's sad. Take it easy.
Positive thinking might not work for all, but respect the ones that it does work for.
This thread was not in disrespect to positive thinkers it was intended to be a respectful debate as you see in the exchange between Tom and I it was you who made it personal.
And I don't know what you mean about walking in other peoples shoes, you asked me "when did I brag about being major" and I pointed it out that you do it in your songs but try to cover it up by saying cliché shit like "making all this doe sellin drugs, Im trying to get out the game, but the moneys too good, Lord help me"....lol, not in those exact words, you find dozens of ways to say the same old shit, not much origionality there.
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Well,
Happiness and positive thinking are not one in the same. Happiness is involuntary, although you can surround yourself with circumstances that are more likely to get that dopeamine flowing and cause you to feel happy. Positive thinking is a voluntary action, one attained with lot's of discipline.
Even though you are correct in that positive thinking advocates embrace false assumptions or fallacies, who are you to tell the that they are wrong. The amount of disinformation in the world is so huge that nobody is above it. Look, you yoourself are even a follower of organized religion, Islam even, which is mosdef top 3 kookiest religions. You subscribe to lot's of bullshit, but it works for you. And that's a lot of what life comes down to. Making it work for you so that you are not miserable.
Positive thinking does not mean that you do not prepare for setbacks, it means you greet them pro actively.
As for wasting time on something by being a positive thinker, the same could be said for any demeanor. Especially the flip side, where you are negative about a lot, you could just endlessly pin and wallow in misery over something that you could have left alone by thinking about doing something more positive.
You are using to many logical fallacies and ignoring too many things in your argument. I get what you are saying but you are just acting ignorant.
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To answer Tom, its not neccasarily that the person may have had a better or worse life. Maybe the "positive" thinker has had a worse life and therefore he has the confidence that he can overcome adversity. Or maybe he has had a better life and so he has confidence that he can be happy cause he knows most of his life he has been happy so he has the confidence that it will come again.
Either way, my point is that it is experiences that determine happiness.
And Rod, I'm talking about real happiness not simply saying you major and this and that so many times that people might believe it and give you cred.
If your life is full of negative experiences how does that help you have a positive outlook. Doesn't that go against your first post ?
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mate positive thinking is what made Ali the greatest.
being positive is not ignoring stuff, its looking at the brighter side of things and not making a bad situation worse.
negative thinkers bring me down and i defo do not like being around them!!! all they do is bitch and moan!! *cough* virtuoso!
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Even though you are correct in that positive thinking advocates embrace false assumptions or fallacies, who are you to tell the that they are wrong. The amount of disinformation in the world is so huge that nobody is above it. Look, you yoourself are even a follower of organized religion, Islam even, which is mosdef top 3 kookiest religions. You subscribe to lot's of bullshit, but it works for you. And that's a lot of what life comes down to. Making it work for you so that you are not miserable.
+1
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Your favorite positive thinker has arrived! :wavey:
Even though you are correct in that positive thinking advocates embrace false assumptions or fallacies, who are you to tell the that they are wrong. The amount of disinformation in the world is so huge that nobody is above it.
You ask who is Infinite to tell people that they are wrong? Infinite is a human being, and he only has his own judgement to rely on. Whether his judgement is correct or not (a lot of people here, including myself, think that he's far off), it's the only thing he can rely on. I guess that's why he feels so comfortable in religion: because he's having trouble making sense of life on his own.
The more perfected you are, the better your judgement is. And at the end of the day, that's all you can base your actions on: your conclusions, drawn from your own judgement.
That's how you become positive as a person: by being confident about your judgement and your actions; about who you are, and why you are; about being in control of your destiny.
1. Positive thinking advocates say things like "happiness is all in the mind"... or "happiness is a mindstate". Well, I purpose that happiness is an INVOLUNTARY emotion resulting from bad or good experiences we encounter in our life.
And you don't control the way you perceive things? You don't put things in a deliberate context? You don't give meaning to things? Because that's the number one important thing about life: to attach a meaning to the things you deem important. Things don't have value in themselves - you have to give them that value. Through such subjective methods, you'll be able to control your mindstate. That's why you can spot me smiling like a retard in the most odd occasions. Whether it be looking out of the living room window, or walking through the masses at Utrecht Central Station, but it's always in a brightly conscious moment... Happiness is not beyond control.
If person A is able to go through a bad experience and stay happy and positive that things will get better it is because he has had past experiences where things have gotten better or met or known of others who have overcame or some past event, encounter or knowledge has given him this hope. I don't however believe that he "willed it" alltogether because I believe it to be involuntary.
Don't let the things that are beyond your control bother you. It's simple as that. Knowing that you've managed to stay well, regardless of negative experiences, gives you a confirmation of personal strength.
2. Positive thinkers may be neglecting their true emotions or feelings about something, and this could cause wasted energy and time engaging in something that they would be better off leaving.
Positive thinkers aren't specifically neglecting reality; they deal with it in their own way. Are you aware that especially Objectivism is focused at both positive thinking, controlling one's destiny, semantics and perceiving reality? These aspects don't necessarily conflict (even though they can).
3. Positive thinkers believe it was their positive thinking that gave them success, when in reality, the reason they were able to remain confident in a difficult cirumstance may have actually been because of their abilities in that area.
Are you aware that ability isn't something that comes at birth - that your favorite sportsman had to exercise a great deal to get to where he's at; to make the best of his potential? And where would they be without positive thinking, without believing in all that might be possible, without firm belief in himself?
4. Positive thinkers may be certain something will happen, and when it doesn't they could be left unprepared for a changing situation because their are always many possible outcomes for a situration that one needs to be aware of.
How about being so negative about yourself that you grant some 'higher power' the authority over your actions, blanking out your personal judgement in the name of Allah? Is that what you call leaving yourself prepared, as opposed to the Objectivist who strives to deal with every day's reality with his full potential, and by means of all that his cognitive faculty has to offer? Aren't you the one who's disarming himself, by submitting to something totally beyond your control and beyond rationality? I rest my case.