West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Now_Im_Not_Banned on August 26, 2008, 06:50:51 PM
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Redeem Team proves worthy of Dream Team comparison (http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/basketball/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=DreamRedeem-080825)
By Chris Sheridan
ESPN.com
BEIJING -- Over here, they were called Dream Team 8. And two years ago in Japan, the locals referred to them as Dream Team 7.
The world might have caught up in basketball during the past decade, but it hasn't caught on to the notion that the American federation ditched the Dream Team nickname after the Atlanta Olympics in 1996 -- back when it started to realize that the true, original Dream Team that won the gold medal in Barcelona in '92 should have had the nickname retired in its honor.
"We're not the Dream Team," coach Mike Krzyzewski said over and over again during the past 2˝ weeks when he faced questioning from several Chinese journalists who prefaced their questions with that phrase. "There was only one Dream Team, and there will never be another."
That might indeed be the case, but it's still a valid idea to compare this year's gold-medal winning Team USA to the one that set a standard that'll never be matched.
Both were dominant in their own way, the 1992 team squishing and squashing each and every last one of its opponents, beginning with a 79-point victory over Cuba in the first game of the '92 Tournament of the Americas and ending with a 32-point victory over Toni Kukoc and Croatia in Barcelona.
The 2008 team crushed the opposition in all but one game -- Sunday's 118-107 victory over Spain -- and set its high-water mark with a 68-point triumph over the U.S. Virgin Islands during the 2007 Tournament of the Americas in Las Vegas.
The 1992 team defeated Angola by 68 points in the opener of the Barcelona Games, with Charles Barkley making his first mark by answering, "I know they're in trouble," when asked what he knew about the small African nation, then delivering an elbow to one of the Angolan players during the game.
Those Angolan players actually asked the Americans for autographs and posed for photographs after the game, whereas the 2008 Angolan team fouled the Americans at the end of its 97-76 loss to get an extra possession and reduce its losing margin to 21 -- something it was elated about after the game.
The Angolans lost to the 1996 U.S. team by 33, and to the 2004 Olympic team by 36 -- a game in which the Americans futilely tried to get Emeka Okafor on the scoreboard for the first time in the tournament by running plays for him throughout the fourth quarter.
The 1992 team's other victory margins were 33 over Croatia (in their preliminary round game), 43 over Germany, 44 over Brazil, 41 over Spain, 38 over Puerto Rico and 51 over Lithuania.
The 2008 team's other victory margins were 37 over Spain (in pool play), 23 over Greece, 31 over China, 49 over Germany, 31 over Australia and 20 over Argentina.
Spain's point total of 107 was the highest ever against a U.S. senior national team (the only other teams to reach 100 were Spain in the 1994 FIBA world championship, Puerto Rico at the 2006 FIBA world championship and Mexico at the 2007 Tournament of the Americas).
MJ versus Kobe would be a dream matchup to say the least.
"I was pretty young (in 1992), but to me there was only one Dream Team," Pau Gasol said after Spain's loss. "That team inspired a lot of young people to want to go and play basketball. This team is very good, close to that team, but I don't think there will ever be anything like that team again."
Five players from the 1992 team (Barkley, David Robinson, Scottie Pippen, Karl Malone and John Stockton) stayed with the U.S. national team for the 1996 Olympics, but only one player from the 1996 team, Gary Payton, was on the 2000 Sydney Olympics team.
The Athens team had no holdovers from Sydney, whereas the 2008 team had four returnees from 2004 -- LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Dwyane Wade and Carlos Boozer.
James has hedged in conversations with ESPN.com regarding whether he wants to be part of the 2012 Olympics team and Bryant will be 33 when the London Games open. Anthony, however, has already strongly stated his intention to return, as has Dwight Howard.
Team director Jerry Colangelo has been stocking the USA Basketball pipeline by selecting several up-and-coming American players for the U.S. Select Team that scrimmaged against the Senior Team in Las Vegas the past two summers, but the only one of them who should be considered a virtual lock to be wearing red, white and blue in 2012 is Kevin Durant.
"They forgot this was a six-year commitment," Colangelo joked from the interview podium as the 12 Team USA members sat to his right, each wearing a gold medal. "We're going to celebrate, and we're going to talk about the future going forward. But the good news is this: Unsolicited, five or six of these guys have already said they want to be a part of what we do going forward. But we have plenty of time to sort through it. They need some time off, they really do."
The next competition for Team USA will be the 2010 world championship in Turkey, a country James, Wade, Anthony and Boozer visited four years ago on their pre-Olympic tour prior to the Athens Games. If the Americans win it, they'll earn an automatic berth into the 2012 Games, and there will be no need for the main players to sacrifice another one of their summers to compete in the 2011 Tournament of the Americas. So the best chance America has of seeing a large chunk of the Redeem Team together again in London is to have many of them on board for the trip to Turkey two summers from now.
And their coach -- whether it's Krzyzewski, Gregg Popovich, Mike D'Antoni, P.J. Carlesimo or someone else -- can have the opportunity to shoot down the inevitable questions about Dream Team 9 the same way Krzyzewski patiently shot them down here in Beijing.
1992 Dream Team:
PG Magic Johnson...John Stockton
SG Michael Jordan...Clyde Drexler
SF Larry Bird...Scottie Pippen/Chris Mullin
PF Charles Barkley...Karl Malone/Christian Laettner
C Patrick Ewing...David Robinson
vs
2008 Redeem Team:
PG Chris Paul...Deron Williams/Jason Kidd
SG Kobe Bryant...Dwyane Wade/Michael Redd
SF Carmelo Anthony...Taysuan Prince
PF LeBron James...Carlos Boozer
C Dwight Howard...Chris Bosh
It's a tough one, but the Dream Team takes it by a slight margin...if the Redeem Team had a point guard like Magic, they'd definitely be a step ahead of the Dream Team...Both are amazing teams regardless, though...PeACe
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lol dream team all day. that team would muscle the hell out of this team and shoot lights out from the 3. not to mention the defense on the dream team was steller at every position.
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Honestly the Dream Team would win by at least 30 points
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i really dont see the dream team winning by much if any...the teams back then all sucked ass...nothing compared to wat they are now and this team still was working teams by 30 points
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I really think the Redeem Team would win. They have Kobe, Wade, AND Lebron. Magic and Bird were already past their prime. Jordan of course would have been tough to stop but Kobe would do a decent job, they young'ns would probably get beat down low but that would hopefully make Dwight Howard step his game up, but i would say 2008 by like 10-12
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I say Redeem Team would win, because the level of play from other international teams was not even close to what it is today. But its pretty fuckin hard to pick one team over the other...
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4-0
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Dream Team. Much deeper team.
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lol dream team all day. that team would muscle the hell out of this team and shoot lights out from the 3. not to mention the defense on the dream team was steller at every position.
magic = old in 92
bird = old in 92
stockton = had a broken leg that year
muillin = old
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redeem team was much younger and fitter and faced stronger opponents.
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Dream Team by Murder
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mj > kobe
barkley > melo
ewing > howard
stockton < paul (STOCK WAS PLAYING INJURED THAT YEAR)
malone < lebron
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barkley and jordan! game over.
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2008 Redeem Team:
PG Chris Paul...Deron Williams/Jason Kidd
SG Kobe Bryant...Dwyane Wade/Michael Redd
SF Carmelo Anthony...Taysuan Prince
PF LeBron James...Carlos Boozer
C Dwight Howard...Chris Bosh
That wasn't the lineup...
C: Dwight Howard / Chris Bosh
PF: Carmelo Anthony / Carlos Boozer
SF: Lebron James / Dwyane Wade / Tayshaun Prince
SG: Kobe Bryant / Deron Williams / Michael Redd
PG: Jason Kidd / Chris Paul
mj = kobe
fixed. ;D
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2008 Redeem Team:
PG Chris Paul...Deron Williams/Jason Kidd
SG Kobe Bryant...Dwyane Wade/Michael Redd
SF Carmelo Anthony...Taysuan Prince
PF LeBron James...Carlos Boozer
C Dwight Howard...Chris Bosh
That wasn't the lineup...
C: Dwight Howard / Chris Bosh
PF: Carmelo Anthony / Carlos Boozer
SF: Lebron James / Dwyane Wade / Tayshaun Prince
SG: Kobe Bryant / Deron Williams / Michael Redd
PG: Jason Kidd / Chris Paul
mj = kobe
fixed. ;D
crackhead
MJ > kobe 365 days a week, and 366 leap year
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1992 Dream Team:
PG Magic Johnson...John Stockton
SG Michael Jordan...Clyde Drexler
SF Larry Bird...Scottie Pippen/Chris Mullin
PF Charles Barkley...Karl Malone/Christian Laettner
C Patrick Ewing...David Robinson
vs
2008 Redeem Team:
PG Chris Paul...Deron Williams/Jason Kidd
SG Kobe Bryant...Dwyane Wade/Michael Redd
SF Carmelo Anthony...Taysuan Prince
PF LeBron James...Carlos Boozer
C Dwight Howard...Chris Bosh
lol Easy one. Dream Team without a doubt. You have 9 HOF members. You have the two best PG's of all time. The best player of all time. 2 of the top 3 PF's of all time. 2 of best Centers of all time. Probably the best SF of all time. The only sure things on the redeem team for HOF are Kobe and Kidd. Lebron should get in as long as he stays healthy. But cmon lol. Redeem team would get bullied.
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Dream Team would destroy. They blew out their competition by an average of 30+, redeem team averaged like 11 point victories.
Dream Team had a much better team top to bottom, better chemistry, etc. 4-0.
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Dream Team would destroy. They blew out their competition by an average of 30+, redeem team averaged like 11 point victories.
Dream Team had a much better team top to bottom, better chemistry, etc. 4-0.
spain now beats spain in 1992 by 30 points ::)
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Dream team would beat down the Redeem team inside all day. Barkley is going to get guarded by who? Melo? Posted up and scored on. Bosh on Robinson? The Admiral would have a field day.
Stockton on one leg would atleast get 1 tech called on Chris Paul, who is a great player get's way too fired up for his own good.
Magic big for any of the point guards and a leader. Not to knock Paul and Williams but if I got a game 7 against the best in the world I want Magic bringing up the ball.
Malone? Way too physical for anyone on the front line of Redeem team, Dwight would pose a problem but would only guard him in a zone and Malone is killer from 10 - 15 feet out.
Bird wouldn't last long with James, Pippen and James would have a terrific battle same with Kobe and MJ.
Dream Team clutch factor would also weight heavily in this debate. So many players who have taken huge shots in their career or just being in crunch time situations with everything hanging on to it. Bird, Magic, Jordan, Pippen....eh, we will skip Quitten, Stockton, Barkley. Redeem team has one of the premier closers in Kobe, Lebron is close but not at the level of the other players.
Dream Team all day, everyday. Too much size and experience and just a insane amount of talent. Their entire bench could come in and you would have 5 hall of famers each with Finals experience.
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barkley plays no D either. well average D. never "great" D in the 90's atleast.
athletes these days are so faster than 16 years ago and cp3 would WIPE THE FLOOR with an old slow big magic. you're holding on to youre blanky if u don't agree with that
1992 jordan would school whoever guards him, even kobe and LBJ.
as for Bosh-Howard vs Ewing and a then title-less D-Robinson (who was a softee without duncan)? the 2 centers in 96 (hakeem and shaq) were much better...
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Dream Team 4-0.
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wanna know whats hilarious?
the teams in 1992 LOVED the usa teams and were proud to be posterized haha. asking for 2 team pictures and sheet
in 2008? i bet they all HATE us with a passion.
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2008 Redeem Team:
PG Chris Paul...Deron Williams/Jason Kidd
SG Kobe Bryant...Dwyane Wade/Michael Redd
SF Carmelo Anthony...Taysuan Prince
PF LeBron James...Carlos Boozer
C Dwight Howard...Chris Bosh
That wasn't the lineup...
C: Dwight Howard / Chris Bosh
PF: Carmelo Anthony / Carlos Boozer
SF: Lebron James / Dwyane Wade / Tayshaun Prince
SG: Kobe Bryant / Deron Williams / Michael Redd
PG: Jason Kidd / Chris Paul
I typed up the best line-ups...
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barkley plays no D either. well average D. never "great" D in the 90's atleast.
athletes these days are so faster than 16 years ago and cp3 would WIPE THE FLOOR with an old slow big magic. you're holding on to youre blanky if u don't agree with that
1992 jordan would school whoever guards him, even kobe and LBJ.
as for Bosh-Howard vs Ewing and a then title-less D-Robinson (who was a softee without duncan)? the 2 centers in 96 (hakeem and shaq) were much better...
Magic would put CP3 in his back pocket. The Dream Team had speed with Jordan, Drexler, Pippen and lets not forget, Magic was king of the run-n-gun. Barkley was a fast power forward and Robinson was also very quick at the center position. It would be close, but I think the Dream Team would edge it out...the 6 teams from '94 to '04 don't even come close.
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as for Bosh-Howard vs Ewing and a then title-less D-Robinson (who was a softee without duncan)? the 2 centers in 96 (hakeem and shaq) were much better...
you compared Ewing and Robinson to Hakeem and Shaq lol. Im SURE Youre not saying Bosh and Howard are better then Ewing and Robinson? lol Ewing hadnt won a title either by that year, Malone, Barkley, etc. So how was Robinson soft because he hadnt? He single handedly changed the game for Centers in the NBA. One of the 50 best all time players, one of the best defenders/ shot blockers of all time, scoring champ, 71 pts in a game, and consitently ranked in the top 10 in at least 5 different NBA statistical categories. Sounds soft to me. Wow...
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barkley plays no D either. well average D. never "great" D in the 90's atleast.
athletes these days are so faster than 16 years ago and cp3 would WIPE THE FLOOR with an old slow big magic. you're holding on to youre blanky if u don't agree with that
1992 jordan would school whoever guards him, even kobe and LBJ.
as for Bosh-Howard vs Ewing and a then title-less D-Robinson (who was a softee without duncan)? the 2 centers in 96 (hakeem and shaq) were much better...
Magic would put CP3 in his back pocket. The Dream Team had speed with Jordan, Drexler, Pippen and lets not forget, Magic was king of the run-n-gun. Barkley was a fast power forward and Robinson was also very quick at the center position. It would be close, but I think the Dream Team would edge it out...the 6 teams from '94 to '04 don't even come close.
CP3 is quick, but even if he got by Magic....what would happen when he go to the lane with Robinson and Ewing. Not to mention, Barkley or Malone would probably put him on his ass before he even got that far. But when you go the other way. The redeem team PG's would be a defensive liability against Magic. He'd post up any of em, easily. Problem with that is, the redeem team would not be able to send help and double team....because its Magic. Im guessing he'd find the open man.
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barkley plays no D either. well average D. never "great" D in the 90's atleast.
athletes these days are so faster than 16 years ago and cp3 would WIPE THE FLOOR with an old slow big magic. you're holding on to youre blanky if u don't agree with that
1992 jordan would school whoever guards him, even kobe and LBJ.
as for Bosh-Howard vs Ewing and a then title-less D-Robinson (who was a softee without duncan)? the 2 centers in 96 (hakeem and shaq) were much better...
Athletes today cry when they get bumped, imagine what would happen when Charles and Malone throw and elbow at them or when Stockton punches someone in the nuts on a pick
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Oh, c'mon. Are you really discussing about it? I mean Dream Team was the best team ever, this Redeem team almost lost in the Final against Calderon-less Spain..
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The Dream Team EASILY ... Redeem team interior sector is a joke .. when Howard is supposed to be the best US center right now , what can u say outside "damn I miss the 90es" ..
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1996 dream team was just as bad ass if not better than the redeem team
pg- john stockton/gary payton (both in their prime still)
sg- Penny Hardaway/reggie miller/mitch ritchmond (all three in their prime ESPECIALLY PENNY)
sf- Scottie Pippen/ Grant Hill ( both in their prime)
pf- Karl Malone/ Charles Barkley (both still pretty much in their prime)
C- Shaquille O'neal/ Hakeem Olajuwan/ David Robinson ( all in their prime)
john stockton/ gary payton>>>>>cp3/deron williams/ jason kidd
penny/reggie/mitch<<<<< kobe/wade/redd
Pippen/Grant>>Lebron/Prince
Malone/ Barkley>>>>>>>>>>Bosh/Melo/Boozer
Shaq/Hakeem/Robinson>>>>>>>>>>>>dwight/bosh
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The Dream Team EASILY ... Redeem team interior sector is a joke .. when Howard is supposed to be the best US center right now , what can u say outside "damn I miss the 90es" ..
96' dream team would molest the inside of the redeem team with shaq, hakeem, malone, barkley and robinson
96' dream team would molest the offense of the redeem team with the defense of payton, hakeem, and pippen
96' dream team would molest the outside shot with pippen/grant/penny/payton/REGGIE ANND Richmond
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I dont think the redeem team would have known what the hell to do with Barkley
He would have been the biggest matchup Problem, Could put Lebron On Magic, but then that leaves another mismatch..Magic and Barkley would cause the redeem fits
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'96 Dream Team was good, but still not as good as the Redeem Team.
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barkley plays no D either. well average D. never "great" D in the 90's atleast.
athletes these days are so faster than 16 years ago and cp3 would WIPE THE FLOOR with an old slow big magic. you're holding on to youre blanky if u don't agree with that
1992 jordan would school whoever guards him, even kobe and LBJ.
as for Bosh-Howard vs Ewing and a then title-less D-Robinson (who was a softee without duncan)? the 2 centers in 96 (hakeem and shaq) were much better...
Magic would put CP3 in his back pocket. The Dream Team had speed with Jordan, Drexler, Pippen and lets not forget, Magic was king of the run-n-gun. Barkley was a fast power forward and Robinson was also very quick at the center position. It would be close, but I think the Dream Team would edge it out...the 6 teams from '94 to '04 don't even come close.
magic was out of the NBA in 1992, mad slow
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Interestingly enough, Magic Johnson & Larry Bird were featured with then rookies LeBron & Melo during an NBA segment on HBO ("Real Sports" I think??) and they were discussing the differences between the NBA during Magic & Bird's prime vs. the LeBron, Melo era. When Magic was asked who would've won between the "Dream Team" of '88 & '92 vs. a handpicked NBA All-Star Dream Team of the present era, he said "no contest" you can't beat Magic, Bird, Jordan, Wilkins, Barkley, Ewing, etc.
He basically said that what the NBA is lacking at the present is fundamentals. He said the $$ that players are being paid nowadays is partially to blame for players not putting in their homework to improve their fundamentals, technique, etc. It became all about flash and less about fundamentals. He also noted that certain individual players have gone away from playing as team members and turning it into an "it's all about me" mentality, instead of utilizing the "teamwork" mentality.
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Dream Team wins before tip off. The size and power was too much. Even with international rules, which favor the Redeem Team, Dream Tean still kills. Magic would stay in as long as Kidd is in, and Magic shuts him down. Stockton was still in his prime, and as a defender would give CP and Williams fits, as Stockton in his prime was one of the best defenders in history. Jordan and Kobe match up, both in their prime, would be great and basically be the story of the whole series. Carmelo and Prince would not handle Pippen/Drexler in their primes plus Birds might kick outside just to have a bigger lineup. The wild card is LeBron, though I put money on Pippen's D, which shut down many great player because Pippen's was in his prime. Inside Barkley, Bird, Malone, Robinson and Ewing crushes Howard, Bosh and Melo when his down there.
The Redeem Team beats the 1996 Dream Team, who only has Shaq and Olajuwon, though Pippen, Barkley, Stockton, Malone and Robinson were beginning to start their decline, well Hill and Penny were solid players but not the superstars that equal LeBron or Melo or Kobe and Mitch Richmond and Gary Payton would not be able to slow down Williams or CP, ok maybe Payton can, but Kobe abuses that whole team once he gets into it.
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Close this 3d. Dream Team by murder.