West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: S P I C E on February 21, 2009, 10:40:44 AM
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If I had a Hall of Fame vote I would still vote these 3 in, lets discuss.
I think it's obvious that Clemens was already Hall worthy before he used in 1997 and Bonds was already Hall worthy before he used in 2000. As far as Arod there is a good chance he has been juicing for a majority of his career or maybe he is telling the truth and its only been for 3 or 4 years, regardless I still say Arod is a hall of famer also like Bonds and Clemens if I have a vote.
Raffy is the tough one but I would say NO, I would also say no to Mcgwire & Sosa.
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Clemans probably would of made but he wouldn't of been a first ballot HOF'er b/c before 97 he looked like he was coming down to the end of his career so there is was a good chance he wouldn't have reached some of the guaranteed milestones to make the hall. He would of eventually got in though. I vote no b/c of the black eye he has left the game. And this makes Met fans feel better b/c for years we were saying him throwing the bat at Piazza was roid rage and we were laughed at.
Bonds was a first ballot HOF'er before 2000 and he probably would of been a top 15-20 player of all time. But his ego got in the way and he was jealous of McGwire and Sosa. Here was one player that didn't need steroids at all but took them so he could break baseballs most sacred records. If I had a vote it would No and I hope the writers feel the same way. IMO he is the biggest disgrace in this games history b/c unlike other players he didn't need to juice up, he was already a baseball god but his ego wanted more.
Arod even if he just took it those 3 years it is too hard to say if he was telling the truth, so he gets a no. And IMO if he played for any other team than the Yanks best believe MLB would be looking for a way to ban him for life so he couldn't further disgrace the game.
McGwire is an easy No. If you look at his career he wasn't good baseball player he just hit HR's. He never hit for average, couldn't run, and couldn't field. Without steroids he is at best another Dave Kingman. But with steroids you find out even his HR's aren't real so he is a very easy no.
Sosa is an easy No. Truth be told if he stayed clean he would of had a better chance of making the hall. People forget that before the juice he was just about a 5 tool player. He could hit for power, run, field, and throw. He had two 30-30 seasons under his belt, he was a good all around player. Even though he had a low OBP but for a clean up hitter OBP wasn't really made a big deal until the late 90's.
Rafael Palmeiro is another easy no, probably the easiest no of all. He was a powerless bean poll w/o steroids.
I vote no for all these guys, and I would vote No for any future HOF'ers that turned out they were juicing. And if you get voted in and people think you were clean and it turns out you did juice you are taken out of the HOF.
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^^Nice post Fits.
You do make some great points. About Raffy I would say no for sure, it's just hard to overlook 500HR and 3,000 hits but yeah he wouldn't of come close to these stats if he wasn't already juiced.
I also agree that ARod is getting off the hook so easily, Bonds got it and is getting it a million times worse then ARod, I do agree with what you said about Bonds, he only has himself to blame. It is sad because Barry should of stayed clean and he still would of been one of the best ever and he would be looking like the good guy now but you are right, instead he juiced when he turned 37 or 38 to continue playing at a great level, its hard to fathom I agree, Bonds is great and clean all the way until he is 37 or 38 and then he decides to juice, obviously a terrible decision.
I dont think that any of these guys will ever get voted in and although I said I would only vote these 3 guys in, I can definitely see where you are coming from.
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If I had a Hall of Fame vote I would still vote these 3 in, lets discuss.
I think it's obvious that Clemens was already Hall worthy before he used in 1997 and Bonds was already Hall worthy before he used in 2000. As far as Arod there is a good chance he has been juicing for a majority of his career or maybe he is telling the truth and its only been for 3 or 4 years, regardless I still say Arod is a hall of famer also like Bonds and Clemens if I have a vote.
Raffy is the tough one but I would say NO, I would also say no to Mcgwire & Sosa.
co-sign.
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just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment
even if some of them are worthy
I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them
but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them
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just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment
even if some of them are worthy
I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them
but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them
you almost have to believe A-Rod when he says he took them those 3 years in Texas because if you look at his stats those 3 years just jump off the charts.
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I say fuck all of them. I don't care what thier career looked like before they got CAUGHT. They all cast a dark shadow on one of the greatest sports of all time. They cheated to make thier career look better, while they caused pitchers and batters respectivley look worse. I only respect the peeps who did it legit thier whole career.
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just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment
even if some of them are worthy
I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them
but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them
you almost have to believe A-Rod when he says he took them those 3 years in Texas because if you look at his stats those 3 years just jump off the charts.
Even if he only took them those 3 years I still leave him out of the HOF. And it just came out that this personal trainer down in the DR thats has been banned by MLB was traveling with Aroid in 07.
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Bonds I think gets in, but his career records don't count, and all records broke after his 37th birthday are taken from the record book. A-Rod, I don't trust him and he should never be in the Hall, Clemens I'm on the fence about, Sosa and the rest of them were nothing but above average players without 'riods so they should never get in.
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Bonds I think gets in, but his career records don't count, and all records broke after his 37th birthday are taken from the record book. A-Rod, I don't trust him and he should never be in the Hall, Clemens I'm on the fence about, Sosa and the rest of them were nothing but above average players without 'riods so they should never get in.
Sosa was far from an average ball player, he wasn't a mega star but he was a feared hitter with a great glove and a rocket for an arm. I'm not saying he was a HOF'er but to say he was average is laughable.
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na Sosa had too much cheating controversy around him.
first it was the corked bat & now roids, i doubt they will vote him in.
but i always loved Sammy & FUCK NO he wasnt no average player! :loco:
just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment
even if some of them are worthy
I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them
but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them
you almost have to believe A-Rod when he says he took them those 3 years in Texas because if you look at his stats those 3 years just jump off the charts.
Even if he only took them those 3 years I still leave him out of the HOF. And it just came out that this personal trainer down in the DR thats has been banned by MLB was traveling with Aroid in 07.
500 homeruns is like an automatic lock for Cooperstown.
even if they take away the Texas hrs, he'll finish with 500+.
but we have to get the bottom of the story before we decide what his future for the HOF is.
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Bonds I think gets in, but his career records don't count, and all records broke after his 37th birthday are taken from the record book. A-Rod, I don't trust him and he should never be in the Hall, Clemens I'm on the fence about, Sosa and the rest of them were nothing but above average players without 'riods so they should never get in.
Sosa was far from an average ball player, he wasn't a mega star but he was a feared hitter with a great glove and a rocket for an arm. I'm not saying he was a HOF'er but to say he was average is laughable.
Yeah I agree w/ Fits, in early and mid 90's Sosa was far from a great player but he was also far from average. Yeah he never should get in though, caught with a corked bat and we all know he was juiced also.
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na Sosa had too much cheating controversy around him.
first it was the corked bat & now roids, i doubt they will vote him in.
but i always loved Sammy & FUCK NO he wasnt no average player! :loco:
just for the fact they fucked up, no Hall should be the punishment
even if some of them are worthy
I agree some guys were probably Hall material before taking them
but we don't know when exactly guys were taking them
you almost have to believe A-Rod when he says he took them those 3 years in Texas because if you look at his stats those 3 years just jump off the charts.
Even if he only took them those 3 years I still leave him out of the HOF. And it just came out that this personal trainer down in the DR thats has been banned by MLB was traveling with Aroid in 07.
500 homeruns is like an automatic lock for Cooperstown.
even if they take away the Texas hrs, he'll finish with 500+.
but we have to get the bottom of the story before we decide what his future for the HOF is.
The problem is you don't know if he was lying. That three year spike he had in Texas just could of been a convenient excuse for him to hide further PED use. Arod can hit 1000 home runs when all is said and done and he still won't get in. And it doesn't help his case that no one involved with baseball (players, writers, fans) respects him. That will hurt him when it's time for the writers to vote.
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id vote NO to ANY player who used roids. ANY player.
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honestly...these guys should be allowed in. (i've changed my attitude).
Bud Selig fucked the MLB.
Unless they release that list of 103 players who tested positive..then everyone is guilty should not be allowed in aswell. That goes FOR ANYONE from 90's. ANYONE.
If I was A Rod. I would be asking for that list of players who tested positive LOL. Everyone should fall with him
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Bonds I think gets in, but his career records don't count, and all records broke after his 37th birthday are taken from the record book. A-Rod, I don't trust him and he should never be in the Hall, Clemens I'm on the fence about, Sosa and the rest of them were nothing but above average players without 'riods so they should never get in.
Sosa was far from an average ball player, he wasn't a mega star but he was a feared hitter with a great glove and a rocket for an arm. I'm not saying he was a HOF'er but to say he was average is laughable.
I said ABOVE AVERAGE ???
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honestly...these guys should be allowed in. (i've changed my attitude).
Bud Selig fucked the MLB.
Unless they release that list of 103 players who tested positive..then everyone is guilty should not be allowed in aswell. That goes FOR ANYONE from 90's. ANYONE.
If I was A Rod. I would be asking for that list of players who tested positive LOL. Everyone should fall with him
no doubt, it wasnt suppose to leak anyway.
that list was suppose to be like destroyed years ago.
BUT, its just a weird coincidence that A-Rod (the best player in the games's) name was leaked out of 103 other players. ::) ::) ::)
we better hear the other 103 names within the next five seasons! >:(
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Bonds I think gets in, but his career records don't count, and all records broke after his 37th birthday are taken from the record book. A-Rod, I don't trust him and he should never be in the Hall, Clemens I'm on the fence about, Sosa and the rest of them were nothing but above average players without 'riods so they should never get in.
Sosa was far from an average ball player, he wasn't a mega star but he was a feared hitter with a great glove and a rocket for an arm. I'm not saying he was a HOF'er but to say he was average is laughable.
I said ABOVE AVERAGE ???
Sosa was a better than average player.
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Yankee fans crack me up, for years MLB let the Yanks get away with murder and now shit is hitting the fan and its well whys everybody always picking on us lol.
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Yankee fans crack me up, for years MLB let the Yanks get away with murder and now shit is hitting the fan and its well whys everybody always picking on us lol.
like what? ???
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Yankee fans crack me up, for years MLB let the Yanks get away with murder and now shit is hitting the fan and its well whys everybody always picking on us lol.
like what? ???
Dave Winfield
After the 1980 season, Steinbrenner made headlines by signing Dave Winfield to a 10-year, $23 million contract, making Winfield baseball's highest-paid player. Steinbrenner later derisively referred to Winfield as "Mr. May" to local media, an obvious negative comparison to Reggie Jackson, who was nicknamed "Mr. October." This criticism has become somewhat of an anachronism as many cite the statement to Steinbrenner after the 1981 World Series. Rather, Steinbrenner made it in September of 1985 when Winfield was struggling, with the Yankees eventually losing the American League East to Toronto on the second to last day of the season. [6].
On July 30, 1990, Commissioner Fay Vincent banned Steinbrenner from baseball for life after he paid Howie Spira, a small-time gambler, $40,000 for "dirt" after Winfield sued him for failing to pay his foundation the $300,000[8] guaranteed in his contract. Subsequently Winfield chose to enter the Hall of Fame as a San Diego Padre. At Yankee Stadium, where a ballgame was being played, word of Steinbrenner's banishment filtering over the transistor radios resulted in a standing ovation from title-starved fans.
The let this piece of scum back but they ban Marge Schott for life b/c she was a nut.
Look at the trades you guys make, you guys give up next to nothing to get good talent. While other teams offer better packages. If you don't think MLB pressures smaller market teams to work with the Yanks you are kidding yourself.
The Clemans bat throwing incident. Any other pitcher in any other team would of been throw out of the game. Roger wasn't even given a warning.
The Arod trade... baseball stepped in and nixed it when the sox made the trade b/c they weren't allowed ot restructure his contract in such a way but the Yanks were allowed to.
C'mon if you don't think major league baseball does all it can to help the yanks stay competitive without trying to be to obvious you are kidding yourself. Shit is now hitting the fan for the Yanks and baseball can't hide it.
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lol, what can i say? were G like that! 8)
i remember Clemens throwing the bat like it was yesterday, i always remembered wishing it hit Piazza lol. :laugh:
we make the trades because we can hold the good players contract & give decent players who will help the other team economically.
it comes down to us just ballin! 8)
Torre is so upset were so stacked he had to go out and try to fuck up our chemistry & now A-Rod's name is the only one to leak off this list; but whatever, we'll show the league this year! 8)
everyone has the right attitude right now & they are all about the winning; bring it on baseball, were ready for any of you! ;) ;D 8)
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^ that Yankees vs. Orioles when the fan snagged the ball was weak too
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lol, what can i say? were G like that! 8)
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we make the trades because we can hold the good players contract & give decent players who will help the other team economically.
That makes no sense, other teams offer packages with better players. Do you think the team you are trading with really gives a shit if you keep the player at the end of the season. And how are the Yankees helping out these team economically through these trades.
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^ that Yankees vs. Orioles when the fan snagged the ball was weak too
Yup, and look at the shit Paul O'Neil used to pull in the lat 90's. Dude used to throw the worst hissy fits and the umps would never even warn him. Other players look at the ump the wrong way and they get tossed. It cracks me up, shit is finally hitting the fan for the Yanks and all Yanks fans are crying the blues. Your team had baseball by the balls, now shit is hitting the fan and even baseball can't cover it up. What comes around goes around.
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lol, what can i say? were G like that! 8)
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we make the trades because we can hold the good players contract & give decent players who will help the other team economically.
That makes no sense, other teams offer packages with better players. Do you think the team you are trading with really gives a shit if you keep the player at the end of the season. And how are the Yankees helping out these team economically through these trades.
we take players with huge contracts & afford it & give the team lower salary players in return. ;)
^ that Yankees vs. Orioles when the fan snagged the ball was weak too
ohh cmon! :laugh:
that could have happened to anyone; but it happened to the Yankees. 8)
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i remember Clemens throwing the bat like it was yesterday, i always remembered wishing it hit Piazza lol. :laugh:
And I hope that cheating cock sucker clemens gets a 22 slug in the back of the head. But as it stands right now Piazza will be a first ballot hall of famer and Clemens is facing prison time, won't make the hall, and will go down as one of the biggest disgraces in Major League Baseball history. And btw what kind of pussy throws a bat at another man b/c he totally murders him during his career. That is some straight up punk shit.
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lol, what can i say? were G like that! 8)
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we make the trades because we can hold the good players contract & give decent players who will help the other team economically.
That makes no sense, other teams offer packages with better players. Do you think the team you are trading with really gives a shit if you keep the player at the end of the season. And how are the Yankees helping out these team economically through these trades.
we take players with huge contracts & afford it & give the team lower salary players in return. ;)
C'mon man you gotta read what I am saying. These trades usually involve the Yanks sending prospects. Other teams OFFER BETTER PROSPECTS WHILE TAKING ON THE OTHER PLAYERS CONTRACT.... THE MONEY IS A PUSH ALL THE WAY AROUND. Why is it these teams will take crappier prospects from the Yanks compared to better prospects from other teams ?
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^ that Yankees vs. Orioles when the fan snagged the ball was weak too
Yup, and look at the shit Paul O'Neil used to pull in the lat 90's. Dude used to throw the worst hissy fits and the umps would never even warn him. Other players look at the ump the wrong way and they get tossed. It cracks me up, shit is finally hitting the fan for the Yanks and all Yanks fans are crying the blues. Your team had baseball by the balls, now shit is hitting the fan and even baseball can't cover it up. What comes around goes around.
cmon man, thats a pretty weak argument.
maybe its the way Pauly did it, he might not have used language & shit; thats big when theres an argument.
plus that was back before umpires wanted to be the center of attention every game & just egg people on to argue to throw them out (I.E. Milton Bradley LMAO).
honestly, the only thing bothering me is how A-Rod was the only name off the list, so coincidentatly right when Torre makes a book about him. ::)
tryna kill our chemistry, i hope we threepeat! 8)
i remember Clemens throwing the bat like it was yesterday, i always remembered wishing it hit Piazza lol. :laugh:
And I hope that cheating cock sucker clemens gets a 22 slug in the back of the head. But as it stands right now Piazza will be a first ballot hall of famer and Clemens is facing prison time, won't make the hall, and will go down as one of the biggest disgraces in Major League Baseball history. And btw what kind of pussy throws a bat at another man b/c he totally murders him during his career. That is some straight up punk shit.
all i remember is Piazza laying on the floor & a 2000 World Series ring lmao, i dont care what the fuck happens to Clemens now, he did what we hired him to do (win). ;D 8)
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lol, what can i say? were G like that! 8)
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we make the trades because we can hold the good players contract & give decent players who will help the other team economically.
That makes no sense, other teams offer packages with better players. Do you think the team you are trading with really gives a shit if you keep the player at the end of the season. And how are the Yankees helping out these team economically through these trades.
we take players with huge contracts & afford it & give the team lower salary players in return. ;)
C'mon man you gotta read what I am saying. These trades usually involve the Yanks sending prospects. Other teams OFFER BETTER PROSPECTS WHILE TAKING ON THE OTHER PLAYERS CONTRACT.... THE MONEY IS A PUSH ALL THE WAY AROUND. Why is it these teams will take crappier prospects from the Yanks compared to better prospects from other teams ?
because they are intimadated by our greatness! :D 8)
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You have no argument whatsoever. Just admit it's not fair what baseball lets the Yanks get away with. And how come you can't admit Clemens is a class A pussy, remember when Torre accused him of being a pussy and throwing at people while he was on the blue jays. But when he comes over to Yankes Clemens doesn't do that. Just admit you cheer for one of the most classless organizations in all of sports.
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You have no argument whatsoever. Just admit it's not fair what baseball lets the Yanks get away with. And how come you can't admit Clemens is a class A pussy, remember when Torre accused him of being a pussy and throwing at people while he was on the blue jays. But when he comes over to Yankes Clemens doesn't do that. Just admit you cheer for one of the most classless organizations in all of sports.
ill admit anything about Clemens; like i said, he did what i wanted him to do. 8)
he is a Hall of Famer imo though.
but no i cant admit that, because that late 90's team was the most classy in all of baseball, they just meant business.
Tino, Pauly, Scotty, Bernie, Jorge, Jeter (the kid), the staff & the greatest closer ever.
thats so classy i cant even explain it. 8)
and all the things you said, probably happen to a whole mess of teams in there history (minus the whole Dave Winfield thing), but the difference is we won, so obviously any little thing that we got away with and won is a much bigger deal to the rest of the leagues fans.
the saying is, your either a Yankee fan or a Yankee hater; there is no in between. ;) 8)
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You have no argument whatsoever. Just admit it's not fair what baseball lets the Yanks get away with. And how come you can't admit Clemens is a class A pussy, remember when Torre accused him of being a pussy and throwing at people while he was on the blue jays. But when he comes over to Yankes Clemens doesn't do that. Just admit you cheer for one of the most classless organizations in all of sports.
ill admit anything about Clemens; like i said, he did what i wanted him to do. 8)
he is a Hall of Famer imo though.
but no i cant admit that, because that late 90's team was the most classy in all of baseball, they just meant business.
Tino, Pauly, Scotty, Bernie, Jorge, Jeter (the kid), the staff & the greatest closer ever.
thats so classy i cant even explain it. 8)
and all the things you said, probably happen to a whole mess of teams in there history (minus the whole Dave Winfield thing), but the difference is we won, so obviously any little thing that we got away with and won is a much bigger deal to the rest of the leagues fans.
the saying is, your either a Yankee fan or a Yankee hater; there is no in between. ;) 8)
Paul O'Neil was a cry baby that got away with it b/c he played with the Yanks. Any other player would of been thrown out half the time. You're owner during the time was a convicted felon. You bought in Clemens, one of the biggest disgraces in baseball history. Your manager was a hypocrite for his stance on Clemens and throwing at people. In 1995 your fan base BOOED DONNY BASEBALL. That is not classy.
Oh yea, did you know the yankees have a rich history of racism and were the last team to be integrated. That aint classy
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the saying is, your either a Yankee fan or a Yankee hater; there is no in between. ;) 8)
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the saying is, your either a Yankee fan or a Yankee hater; there is no in between. ;) 8)
Just admit I am right, the truth shall set you free
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I really wish a new Landis becomes commissioner puts forth all of these ridiculous investigations and finds out how every single member in the hall of fame had cheated at least once in their career then throws everyone out of the hall of fame just so these holier than thou baseball fans can shut the fuck up forever.
You think Baseball has seen dark days? The darkest day in baseball history will be if Mike Piazza gets in before Bonds or Clemens.
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I really wish a new Landis becomes commissioner puts forth all of these ridiculous investigations and finds out how every single member in the hall of fame had cheated at least once in their career then throws everyone out of the hall of fame just so these holier than thou baseball fans can shut the fuck up forever.
You think Baseball has seen dark days? The darkest day in baseball history will be if Mike Piazza gets in before Bonds or Clemens.
And you're no better than us holier than art thou fans with your well I wasn't naive rhetoric. And I can't wait for Piazza to give his HOF speech before Clemens and Barroid :)
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I really wish a new Landis becomes commissioner puts forth all of these ridiculous investigations and finds out how every single member in the hall of fame had cheated at least once in their career then throws everyone out of the hall of fame just so these holier than thou baseball fans can shut the fuck up forever.
You think Baseball has seen dark days? The darkest day in baseball history will be if Mike Piazza gets in before Bonds or Clemens.
And you're no better than us holier than art thou fans with your well I wasn't naive rhetoric. And I can't wait for Piazza to give his HOF speech before Clemens and Barroid :)
It's not naive to think baseball isn't filled with cheaters, it's retarded. The whole history of baseball is about just that, cheating. Whether it's pitchers spitting on balls, Ty Cobb sharpening his cleats, corking bats, or Micky fucking Mantle downing amphetamines like no tomorrow. Baseball is, was, and always will be about getting the upper hand by any means necessary. To lash out against the steroid users isn't wrong, it's blasphemy.
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I really wish a new Landis becomes commissioner puts forth all of these ridiculous investigations and finds out how every single member in the hall of fame had cheated at least once in their career then throws everyone out of the hall of fame just so these holier than thou baseball fans can shut the fuck up forever.
You think Baseball has seen dark days? The darkest day in baseball history will be if Mike Piazza gets in before Bonds or Clemens.
And you're no better than us holier than art thou fans with your well I wasn't naive rhetoric. And I can't wait for Piazza to give his HOF speech before Clemens and Barroid :)
It's not naive to think baseball isn't filled with cheaters, it's retarded. The whole history of baseball is about just that, cheating. Whether it's pitchers spitting on balls, Ty Cobb sharpening his cleats, corking bats, or Micky fucking Mantle downing amphetamines like no tomorrow. Baseball is, was, and always will be about getting the upper hand by any means necessary. To lash out against the steroid users isn't wrong, it's blasphemy.
LMFAO you sound JUST LIKE the holier than thou crowd except coming from a different angle.
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^i think just about every sport known to man (besides the hot dog eating contest) is all about trying to cheat in any small way to get the upper hand.
even if you think your doing something to get the upper hand & its really not, but it becomes part of your mentailty, that will improve your game.
cheating is a way of sports & the golden rule: its not cheating if you don't get caught.
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I really wish a new Landis becomes commissioner puts forth all of these ridiculous investigations and finds out how every single member in the hall of fame had cheated at least once in their career then throws everyone out of the hall of fame just so these holier than thou baseball fans can shut the fuck up forever.
You think Baseball has seen dark days? The darkest day in baseball history will be if Mike Piazza gets in before Bonds or Clemens.
And you're no better than us holier than art thou fans with your well I wasn't naive rhetoric. And I can't wait for Piazza to give his HOF speech before Clemens and Barroid :)
It's not naive to think baseball isn't filled with cheaters, it's retarded. The whole history of baseball is about just that, cheating. Whether it's pitchers spitting on balls, Ty Cobb sharpening his cleats, corking bats, or Micky fucking Mantle downing amphetamines like no tomorrow. Baseball is, was, and always will be about getting the upper hand by any means necessary. To lash out against the steroid users isn't wrong, it's blasphemy.
LMFAO you sound JUST LIKE the holier than thou crowd except coming from a different angle.
No, I sound like a baseball fan that knows the history of the sport. You sound like the kid standing on the steps pouting "say it ain't so Joe, say it ain't so.". Just read the history of baseball. Ty Cobb in today's game would have been elected from every game he played in because he played dirty and he's the highest voted hall of famer in history.
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I can guarantee Piazza was on the juice as well. Look at some pics of his body changes through the years.
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^i wouldnt put it past Mikey boy.
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I can guarantee Piazza was on the juice as well. Look at some pics of his body changes through the years.
Of course he was juicing. It's simply a part of the modern game. But Tommy doesn't think anyone is juicing until they're caught so expect him to defend Piazza until the guy gets caught and then he'll call him a disgrace to the game like the guy murdered his wife and kids.
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The only one I would give a pass to is Clemens.
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just let them all in. ;D
if everyone is using steroids, including the pitchers, everything cancels out right? ;) :P