West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Antonio on May 21, 2009, 02:10:14 AM
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I dunno if you all care about this aspect of the game, but.. Lakers are right now a joke, defensively. Fisher is a great one-on-one defender, but he's getting old, and when he defends hard he doesn't have power no more in the other side of the court. Against the Nuggets Phil put him against Dahntay Jones late in the game, and Fisher stepped up offensively hitting some big shots. He's getting old, i understand it. It's not bad attitude. Anyway he just can't defend against high pick'n'rolls. Kobe is a lock-down defender, but he only defends 10-15 minutes per game, cause he has to carry the offense. He's not defending well right now, and he didn't defend well against the Rockets. Too many times i've seen him surprised on a defensive rebound, or beated in a one-on-one penetration. Melo exposed him a couple of times in Game-1. Ariza? Well.. he's the best defender in the team, by far. He lacks some muscles, and he suffered Melo because of that, but you can say nothing about Ariza's attitude. He's the best defender in the team. Gasol? Embarassing. He doesn't move his fucking feet. He's just there, standing, and defending against his man when he receives the ball. He does no team defense. No movements to stop penetration, he doesn't double the other pivot, he's not playing well at all, defensively. He defends better when Lamar is on the floor, cause Lamar is a team defender, and he does the dirty works. But i'm disappointed by Gasol. Bynum? A complete disgrace. This kid is one of the worst defenders in the League, plain and simple. It's embarassing. That's the reason why he never gets a good minutage. Ok, he got the size. Ok, he got long arms. But damn, he's outpowered and outrebounded by everybody he faces, and he does ZERO team defense. I gotta say i'm highly disappointed by him. For sure he has room to improve, but we can't have him on the floor for long, at the moment, cause he's embarassing defensively. Kareem should teach him how to defend, and not only how to make some spin moves or baby sky-hook. Talking about the bench, Shannon Brown is a good defender. He's a wonderful athlete, he can run, he can stay with his opponent, and i like his attitude. Farmar, Sasha and Walton are not defensive specialists, but they are role/bench players, so it's not that important. I mean they don't stay on the floor long enought to be a problem defensively. Powell is a good defender. He hustles, he uses his body, he's a good athlete. I'm happy by his efforts. And Lamar, i already said it, he's along with Ariza the best defender in the team. Absolutely 10x more important than Bynum for this team, at the moment. He's the real key for our success. No Lamar, no party. Cause he's the only one defending inside with real team defense.
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you can nik can argue about this shit lol
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Our two great problems defensively are:
1) high pick-n-roll's. Cause Gasol and Bynum just doesn't move their asses (and Fisher and Farmar doesn't have the size to "swich" the defender)
2) open 3 pointers. Cause our guards just doesn't move their asses quick enought to defend the perimeter well. Too many open 3's against us.
We are too lazy. No passion at all. We aren't moving our asses.
Phil A.K.A. mr. "take a long breath" should really try to do something about that. And fuck his zen.
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the pb is that the team is not commited to D ... the rare times they put effort in it , they look good ... outside Fish and Walton , everybody has the physical tools to play at least decent D but working hard is obviously not in the Lakers vocabulary and on a team with a lack of veterans , the coach has to show the example and give his team the mentality ... you have to push Gasol and Bynum who are lazy fucks on D to put effort in it but the " team has to auto-coached itself" theory of Jackson shows his huge limits
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the pb is that the team is not commited to D ... the rare times they put effort in it , they look good ... outside Fish and Walton , everybody has the physical tools to play at least decent D but working hard is obviously not in the Lakers vocabulary and on a team with a lack of veterans , the coach has to show the example and give his team the mentality ... you have to push Gasol and Bynum who are lazy fucks on D to put effort in it but the " team has to auto-coached itself" theory of Jackson shows his huge limits
It worked with Jordan, Rodman, Harper and Pippen tho'.
(i know, they were not young, and they were menthally on another planet compared to Bynum, Gasol, etc...)
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we play great D......it's just that we dont apply ourselves on the defensive end as much as we should. THATS IT.
as for Bynum...he's a good defender too. this is the same guy who had 7 blocks against Dwight Howard. he was an enforcer in the paint...right now, it's CRYSTAL CLEAR that Bynum is not the same player he was prior to the injury. he doesnt have the same lift, the same speed, the same energy...he doesnt move around the same. you think maybe that's stunting his defense? LOL...lets just be realistic here. Bynum was our key on defense prior to the injury...PeACe
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real shit Antonio.
Its an attitude thing more then anything. I just think the Lakers are relying on their offense and thinking they can simply outscore everyone.....turn the defense on and off when they want. That kind of shit almost got them bounced in Rd 2. Like Ive always said with the Lakers, this is the leaders fault. Kobe AND Phil. I know Kobe has to carry the offensive load a lot at times, but fuck that...he should be an example on defense for the rest of the team. Phil is so overrated to me its sickening. He DEFINETELY needs to be on his team more about defense. Sit guys the minute they start draggin on D. The problem is, this is something that would need to be addressed a LONG time ago. You cant address it now, once the playoffs start. You cant really just start comin down hard on the guys for poor D now, when you havent all year....youll just create chaos. At this point, the team is what it is. They need to just play off their strengths and hope those are good enough to overshadow their weaknesses. The team is good, but if I was a Laker fan I would be hella frustrated. Mentally they should be better.
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Lakers play great d when they want. FIsh is not a great defender anymore. DId u watch Brooks eat him up or was that just me?
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as for Bynum...he's a good defender too.
No he is not. He is our main problem at the moment. He's just embarassing, man. I'm not hating on him, i'm not saying he's a bum or stupid shit like that. But he just doesn't have timing on defense, and he ain't moving his feet well enought. I dunno if it's due to his injury, i think it's not. I think he just ain't focused enought. His only defense is if there's someone in the post with his ass in front of the basket, cause he has a big body. And he might block some shots here and there, cause he has great arms. But that's it.
he was an enforcer in the paint...right now, it's CRYSTAL CLEAR that Bynum is not the same player he was prior to the injury. he doesnt have the same lift, the same speed, the same energy...he doesnt move around the same. you think maybe that's stunting his defense? LOL...lets just be realistic here. Bynum was our key on defense prior to the injury...PeACe
Maybe, yeah. The fact is that we defend 10x better with Gasol playing Center, and with Odom as the PF. And you know i'm saying it from months.
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agreed they suck
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Lakers play great d when they want. FIsh is not a great defender anymore. DId u watch Brooks eat him up or was that just me?
Of course Fisher can't guard Brooks, man. He's getting old. And Farmar has the speed but he lacks IQ on defense. I think Shannon Brown will have a great minutage for us in the next season, if we don't acquire another PG via trade.
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Lakers play great d when they want. FIsh is not a great defender anymore. DId u watch Brooks eat him up or was that just me?
Of course Fisher can't guard Brooks, man. He's getting old. And Farmar has the speed but he lacks IQ on defense. I think Shannon Brown will have a great minutage for us in the next season, if we don't acquire another PG via trade.
calm down, someone had said he was a great defender, which he isnt
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Lakers play great d when they want. FIsh is not a great defender anymore. DId u watch Brooks eat him up or was that just me?
Of course Fisher can't guard Brooks, man. He's getting old. And Farmar has the speed but he lacks IQ on defense. I think Shannon Brown will have a great minutage for us in the next season, if we don't acquire another PG via trade.
calm down, someone had said he was a great defender, which he isnt
I'm calm. lol. It was an opinion.
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Lakers play great d when they want. FIsh is not a great defender anymore. DId u watch Brooks eat him up or was that just me?
Of course Fisher can't guard Brooks, man. He's getting old. And Farmar has the speed but he lacks IQ on defense. I think Shannon Brown will have a great minutage for us in the next season, if we don't acquire another PG via trade.
calm down, someone had said he was a great defender, which he isnt
I'm calm. lol. It was an opinion.
i know jk haha
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I've been saying this same shit all year, especially 2nd half of the season
they've been playing like this for a while now
I still think they can manage to win it al, even though they play under their potential a lot of the time
but it's gonna be a crazy ride
at this point they won't change, just gotta hope they survive the mistakes
and bring their best game like they can, if they getting rolling no one in the league is fucking with them
they just need to consistently get rolling god damnit!
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But he just doesn't have timing on defense, and he ain't moving his feet well enought. I dunno if it's due to his injury, i think it's not.
so you think hes not moving well enough? i agree..but do you really wanna sit here and try telling me this is how he was moving prior to the injury? LOL, come on, now.
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at this point they won't change, just gotta hope they survive the mistakes
Thats what I was saying. The team obviously isnt perfect (as much as NIK tries to convince himself lol). But you arent going to change what youve been doing all year, in the playoffs.
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But he just doesn't have timing on defense, and he ain't moving his feet well enought. I dunno if it's due to his injury, i think it's not.
so you think hes not moving well enough? i agree..but do you really wanna sit here and try telling me this is how he was moving prior to the injury? LOL, come on, now.
Look.. Bynum doesn't have a great basketball IQ. He doesn't do good rotations, he doesn't close penetrations, he loses his man too much doubling opponents in the post, he's too lazy on the defensive rebounds. That said, prior to the injury he was jumping better, he was quicker, so since he is really huge, he was still intimidating. I mean if he raise his arms he's like a tower!! Now i see him slow, and him being so slow exposes his low basketball IQ on defense. It makes him look even worse than what he is. You know what the problem is? It's that he's not playing well in the other side of the floor too. So that makes him "a problem". He's not "one-dimensional", at the moment. He is "no-dimensional". And to have him on the floor is a huge luxury (in fact he is averaging just 15 minutes per game at the moment. I mean 15!!)
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at this point they won't change, just gotta hope they survive the mistakes
Thats what I was saying. The team obviously isnt perfect (as much as NIK tries to convince himself lol). But you arent going to change what youve been doing all year, in the playoffs.
Nope. But unfortunately defense wins titles. So they betta do the thing i'm saying from months: keep Odom playing 35 minutes and let Bynum play just 15 minutes. Cause Odom defends. And let's use Shannon Brown more than Farmar, exactly like Phil is doing at the moment, cause he defends.
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But he just doesn't have timing on defense, and he ain't moving his feet well enought. I dunno if it's due to his injury, i think it's not.
so you think hes not moving well enough? i agree..but do you really wanna sit here and try telling me this is how he was moving prior to the injury? LOL, come on, now.
Look.. Bynum doesn't have a great basketball IQ. He doesn't do good rotations, he doesn't close penetrations, he loses his man too much doubling opponents in the post, he's too lazy on the defensive rebounds. That said, prior to the injury he was jumping better, he was quicker, so since he is really huge, he was still intimidating. I mean if he raise his arms he's like a tower!! Now i see him slow, and him being so slow exposes his low basketball IQ on defense. It makes him look even worse than what he is. You know what the problem is? It's that he's not playing well in the other side of the floor too. So that makes him "a problem". He's not "one-dimensional", at the moment. He is "no-dimensional". And to have him on the floor is a huge luxury (in fact he is averaging just 15 minutes per game at the moment. I mean 15!!)
dude..bynum's basketball iq is not the reason hes been struggling. dwight howard has a worse basketball iq than bynum and look at him....the point is, his agility, footspeed, and explosion is gone, which is the number one reason he can't provide us with what he did in the regular season. come on, antonio.. its common sense. if he was playing like he did in december, we'd be more than good..PeACe
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But he just doesn't have timing on defense, and he ain't moving his feet well enought. I dunno if it's due to his injury, i think it's not.
so you think hes not moving well enough? i agree..but do you really wanna sit here and try telling me this is how he was moving prior to the injury? LOL, come on, now.
Look.. Bynum doesn't have a great basketball IQ. He doesn't do good rotations, he doesn't close penetrations, he loses his man too much doubling opponents in the post, he's too lazy on the defensive rebounds. That said, prior to the injury he was jumping better, he was quicker, so since he is really huge, he was still intimidating. I mean if he raise his arms he's like a tower!! Now i see him slow, and him being so slow exposes his low basketball IQ on defense. It makes him look even worse than what he is. You know what the problem is? It's that he's not playing well in the other side of the floor too. So that makes him "a problem". He's not "one-dimensional", at the moment. He is "no-dimensional". And to have him on the floor is a huge luxury (in fact he is averaging just 15 minutes per game at the moment. I mean 15!!)
dude..bynum's basketball iq is not the reason hes been struggling. dwight howard has a worse basketball iq than bynum and look at him....the point is, his agility, footspeed, and explosion is gone, which is the number one reason he can't provide us with what he did in the regular season. come on, antonio.. its common sense. if he was playing like he did in december, we'd be more than good..PeACe
Ok.
Still........ we have a problem.
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I agree with a lot of those problems you mentioned, but I think the worst part is their interior D. They give up way too many easy lay-ups and dunks off the drive, and they have poor rotation. I think Gasol and Odom might do a better job individually, but they get too soft sometimes, especially Gasol. How many times has Denver had someone go through for a dunk and not get fouled? You barely see that on the other end though. In the playoffs, you can't give up those easy baskets, sometimes you have to send a message. I think Bynum's foul on Andersen was great today, worth the bad ruling that it was a flagrant.
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I agree with a lot of those problems you mentioned, but I think the worst part is their interior D. They give up way too many easy lay-ups and dunks off the drive, and they have poor rotation. I think Gasol and Odom might do a better job individually, but they get too soft sometimes, especially Gasol. How many times has Denver had someone go through for a dunk and not get fouled? You barely see that on the other end though. In the playoffs, you can't give up those easy baskets, sometimes you have to send a message. I think Bynum's foul on Andersen was great today, worth the bad ruling that it was a flagrant.
Interior D is a huge problem, yeah. Only Odom is doing those rotations, and he's focusing on rebounds too. We def need a good backup defensive C-PF next year.
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Lakers need a big PG type who will commit to D 100%.
The driving small man has been the prob for a couple years now.
(Nothing new)
Real Talk, Lakers need to start chin checkin' people around the basket.
to shed that "Finesse" label they have. 8)
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I say trade Farmar (i'm sorry, Jordan!) for a defensive-minded PG, and trade Morrison for a defensive-minded PF-C. Possibly a young quick PG and a veteran C. A P.J. Brown/Kurth Thomas type of player..
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Don't overrate the trade value of your worse players. They ain't worth anything of substance, just cause you got lucky with Kwame, Crittenton and Cook, that can't happen every year. You've got a salary problem coming your way also. Keeping Ariza, Odom, Powell and Brown while paying Bynum 10 million more than last year will not be easy if you're not a championship team. If Mitch can keep those 4 expiring contracts it's amazing already, don't expect anything more than that.
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We def need a good backup defensive C-PF next year.
we already have Mbenga...dunno why he's never used. :stupid:
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Lakers need a big PG type who will commit to D 100%.
The driving small man has been the prob for a couple years now.
(Nothing new)
Real Talk, Lakers need to start chin checkin' people around the basket.
to shed that "Finesse" label they have. 8)
SHANNON BROWN! 8)
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We def need a good backup defensive C-PF next year.
we already have Mbenga...dunno why he's never used. :stupid:
Exactly you are 100% right, I feel the same way....however he played 22 seconds in game 1 ask kenyon martin :-X
(http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/multimedia/photo_gallery/0905/lakers.nuggets.game1/images/lakersnuggets7.jpg)
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LOL that dunk was nasty.
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The Lakers have the personnel to play D for the most part, but they make too many mistakes. The big athletic PG is Brown, they have Powell and Mbenga off the bench who can D in the paint and crash boards. They could maybe use one more wing defender, but Walton hasn't even been that bad off the bench. They need to toughen up, you can't give up so many easy dunks and layups. You have 6 fouls to use in a game, you can't be afraid to use a few of them to prevent the easy basket.
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we play great D......it's just that we dont apply ourselves on the defensive end as much as we should. THATS IT.
Not true at all. The fucked up part is, 5 years ago we signed Karl Malone and Gary Payton because our defense was wack and teams were abusing us with p&rs...5 years ago! What's different defensively? Fisher is STILL out there getting burned and Phil Jackson has the audacity to say Fisher's D isn't a problem. Dumb coach = dumb players.
The Lakers have one of the most talented and versatile rosters EVER. Therefor, if we don't win a championship with this team we go down in history as the biggest group of losers ever.
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we play great D......it's just that we dont apply ourselves on the defensive end as much as we should. THATS IT.
Not true at all. The fucked up part is, 5 years ago we signed Karl Malone and Gary Payton because our defense was wack and teams were abusing us with p&rs...5 years ago! What's different defensively? Fisher is STILL out there getting burned and Phil Jackson has the audacity to say Fisher's D isn't a problem. Dumb coach = dumb players.
The Lakers have one of the most talented and versatile rosters EVER. Therefor, if we don't win a championship with this team we go down in history as the biggest group of losers ever.
once again...when we apply ourselves, we play great D=true
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Lakers need a big PG type who will commit to D 100%.
The driving small man has been the prob for a couple years now.
(Nothing new)
Real Talk, Lakers need to start chin checkin' people around the basket.
to shed that "Finesse" label they have. 8)
SHANNON BROWN! 8)
8)
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go Lakers
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I say trade Farmar (i'm sorry, Jordan!) for a defensive-minded PG, and trade Morrison for a defensive-minded PF-C. Possibly a young quick PG and a veteran C. A P.J. Brown/Kurth Thomas type of player..
Fuck that. Trade Fisher. At this point Farmar>Fisher. Trade Fisher and Morrison (both with expiring contracts) and the Lakers 1st round pick for a strong bench post player.
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Don't overrate the trade value of your worse players. They ain't worth anything of substance, just cause you got lucky with Kwame, Crittenton and Cook, that can't happen every year. You've got a salary problem coming your way also. Keeping Ariza, Odom, Powell and Brown while paying Bynum 10 million more than last year will not be easy if you're not a championship team. If Mitch can keep those 4 expiring contracts it's amazing already, don't expect anything more than that.
Odom said he's willing to sign for less money and the Lakers traded Vladimir Radmanovic and Chris Mihm to free up money to sign Ariza. Powell and Brown aren't going to make that much money either. It won't be easy, but it is defiantly possible.
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And don't forget Kobe can opt out of his contract too. :P
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they might have to choose between LO and Ariza. To me its a no brainer...ARIZA
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they'll keep both, i'm sure of it. like stated earlier, he already said he wants to play for LA and he's willing to take less money to make that happen.
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WE SHOULD DEF KEEP ARIZA AND ODOM, AND SHANNON BROWN. THOSE 3 ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO DEFENDS WELL!
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Farmar , Fisher , Vujacic , Walton , Powell , and Morrison should all be on the trading block and see what you can get from here .. I would like us to get a serviceable big ala Pryzbilla or bring the Pau's brother
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I would like us to get a serviceable big ala Pryzbilla or bring the Pau's brother
That would be a dream come true.
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I'm not giving up on Fisher, He will be big in the finals.
Orlando is going to focus 100% on Kobe.
Lakers as a team will defo step it up, Good thing Bryant has plenty of help w/Gasol.
Odom & Ariza will get theirs. Fish will be the extra 10pts a night everyone seems to take for granted.
+ I don't think alot of people truly understand Fish's role, He is more than just their PG.
He is also their main motivation/team leader "Alternative" to Jackson & Bryant.
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I agree with Hatesrats, as far as I'm concern, Fisher can wear that Laker's jersey for as long as he would like. Fisher has always been there for the Lakers, and I think we need to stay loyal to him. Now everyone else, Not named Fisher, Bryant, Odom, Ariza, Gasol, Brown or Bynum needs to be reevaluated. I'm sure we can find some takers for Farmer and Vujacic.
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lakers match up WAY better then the cavs do