West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Train of Thought => Topic started by: Trauma-san on October 22, 2002, 01:13:05 AM
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And it rolls closer and closer :)
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/index.html
Opinions? Try and be respectful ;)
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sounds interesting...........
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Judging by the posts, it must not be TOO interesting, LOL
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lol... i am not the one that needs proff of christ.... i already know that he is God................... ;)
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lol it is interesting...especially this:
The box owner "didn't realize the significance," Shanks said. "He threw up his hands, 'How could the Son of God have a brother?'"
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lol... i am not the one that needs proff of christ.... i already know that he is God................... ;)
uh i thought he was a prophet, son of God, not God himself...
And dat was a very interesting article, lol@the box owner, pz
-{bLaDe}
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lol... i am not the one that needs proff of christ.... i already know that he is God................... ;)
uh i thought he was a prophet, son of God, not God himself...
And dat was a very interesting article, lol@the box owner, pz
-{bLaDe}
there is a passage in the bible... i will find it and tell it to you.. the right quote.... but for now deal with this.... christ is the father, the son and the holy goast........ he is three in one...
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The bible mentions Jesus's brothers, James, Judas, Samuel? and I believe a sister. You don't hear too much about them, but they definately existed, and this is just more proof. The son of god could have brothers because they shared the same mother... Catholics don't believe this, though, and refuse to believe it because they think Mary was 'always' a virgin, though the bible doesn't say that, it says she was a virgin at the time of Jesus's birth. Do you honestly think Mary and Joseph NEVER had sex after Jesus was born?
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yep i believe it.... joesph was an old man when he married mary and had childern with another women before mary.....
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^^^ That's what catholics believe, because theydon't believe Mary would have sex.
I believe that Joseph and Mary simply had more kids after Jesus, all born naturally (James, Judas, etc.).
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I believe that Jesus exsisted, I like learning about all that old stuff, I find it very interesting. However I don't believe that there is a god up there.
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^^^ That's what catholics believe, because theydon't believe Mary would have sex.
I believe that Joseph and Mary simply had more kids after Jesus, all born naturally (James, Judas, etc.).
the catholic church was the first christian church... so you are basically telling me that... our belief are wrong..... because thats what the catholics belief... we believe it because it is true.... the VIRGIN mary was also the first christian and the mother of the church.............. remember..... she was christ first follower...
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The part I found interesting in reading was how little we know about Jesus Christ. It's hard for me to be certain about much, but that he was a messenger of love, truth, and the God-conscience.
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Miss PinkTowelGirl read the dead sea scrolls, in there they confirm that Mary was not a virgin,its just the meanin of the word they translated changed over time or something. She's meant to be Mary of pure goodness or something.
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^^^ That's what catholics believe, because theydon't believe Mary would have sex.
I believe that Joseph and Mary simply had more kids after Jesus, all born naturally (James, Judas, etc.).
the catholic church was the first christian church... so you are basically telling me that... our belief are wrong..... because thats what the catholics belief... we believe it because it is true.... the VIRGIN mary was also the first christian and the mother of the church.............. remember..... she was christ first follower...
she was a virgin at the time of Jesus's birth. However, after that, she had kids, normally concieved. Just because she was a virgin when he was born doesn't mean it makes her any less of a person if she had sex AFTER he was born. Catholics want to make it out that she was always a virgin, and there's no reason for that... So they say Jesus's "brothers" must have been from Josephs previious marriage. Well, that doesn't make any sense, because if Joseph wasn't Jesus's true father, how would they be his brothers? They wouldn't even be related except by marriage. Since it mentions them as his brothers, they must have 1 parent in common, and since it can't be Joseph, it must be Mary. Why would you believe that a married woman would NEVER have sex anyways? That's rediculous... it goes back to the catholic belief that Sex is somethign dirty and undignifying.
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So Trauma, Jesus was just a prophet and not God himself right?
-{bLaDe}
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yer i already know jesus was around, we chill nowdays too.....u just gotta know what to do at the right time and trust me, u can chill with him!
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So Trauma, Jesus was just a prophet and not God himself right?
-{bLaDe}
NO :)
He was a prophet, and the son of god.
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So Trauma, Jesus was just a prophet and not God himself right?
-{bLaDe}
NO :)
He was a prophet, and the son of god.
Trauma, is Jesus equal to God? Should Jesus be worshipped?
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^^^ That's what catholics believe, because theydon't believe Mary would have sex.
I believe that Joseph and Mary simply had more kids after Jesus, all born naturally (James, Judas, etc.).
the catholic church was the first christian church... so you are basically telling me that... our belief are wrong..... because thats what the catholics belief... we believe it because it is true.... the VIRGIN mary was also the first christian and the mother of the church.............. remember..... she was christ first follower...
she was a virgin at the time of Jesus's birth. However, after that, she had kids, normally concieved. Just because she was a virgin when he was born doesn't mean it makes her any less of a person if she had sex AFTER he was born. Catholics want to make it out that she was always a virgin, and there's no reason for that... So they say Jesus's "brothers" must have been from Josephs previious marriage. Well, that doesn't make any sense, because if Joseph wasn't Jesus's true father, how would they be his brothers? They wouldn't even be related except by marriage. Since it mentions them as his brothers, they must have 1 parent in common, and since it can't be Joseph, it must be Mary. Why would you believe that a married woman would NEVER have sex anyways? That's rediculous... it goes back to the catholic belief that Sex is somethign dirty and undignifying.
you guy's minds are in the gutter...... i believe storngly that she mained a virgin through out her life.... your talking to a sunday school teacher.... the catholic church wouldnt be teaching this as facts if it wasnt so.... she sets an example to her child.. because she is our mother..... so stop diss respectin......
we also believe in the trinity... meaning that god is the father, the son and the holy spirit... that has been taught in the catholic church for 2000 years.. so who point would be more valid?
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^^^ Not to be disrespectfull or anything but just cuz tha Catholic Church says so, doesn't mean everyone is gonna agree. And just because it's been around so long, doesn't make it the "right" religion. And half tha people on this board dont even believe in God so you can't be too surprised that someone is gonna disagree with you.
Trauma's Mormon. That's what they believe. And to tell you tha truth, I agree with most tha stuff he's been sayin on this thread.
And to Infinite's questions, about God being equal to God and whether or not God should be praised? Simple answer, maybe not to you or Trauma but some poeple believe so... It's all on tha person and what they feel is right.
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^^^ Not to be disrespectfull or anything but just cuz tha Catholic Church says so, doesn't mean everyone is gonna agree. And just because it's been around so long, doesn't make it the "right" religion. And half tha people on this board dont even believe in God so you can't be too surprised that someone is gonna disagree with you.
Trauma's Mormon. That's what they believe. And to tell you tha truth, I agree with most tha stuff he's been sayin on this thread.
And to Infinite's questions, about God being equal to God and whether or not God should be praised? Simple answer, maybe not to you or Trauma but some poeple believe so... It's all on tha person and what they feel is right.
That's a very diplomatic way of putting it. I'm not going to persecute anyone for their beliefs but obviously I do believe that Islam is the correct, truth from Allah, or I wouldn't practice it or call myself a Muslim.
And I was simply asking Trauma if Mormons condider Jesus on the same level as God and if they worship Jesus. I wanted to know what the Mormon believe is on that.
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Was Mary a Virgin though out life. No doubt, or at least never had any other kids. She was the perfect human, and Joseph was very old. He raised Jesus as he was a child. Never in the Bible did they mention Jesus having brothers and sisters until he was older, and well he was a child that would be important. Why is this, because all his sibings were older, therefore out of Joseph's care when Jesus was born since in them days you leave your parents at like 16. Also, this explains why in the beginning of the New Testament, why they talk about Jesus's bloodline, and it talks about Joseph as his father, meaning that Jesus regonizing Joseph as his human father, so therefore his kids are Jesus's siblings. Trauma, word of advice, never argue the Virgin Mary to most Latinas, 'cause she is a great symbol to the overall culture, and most women pick it up more than the men.
Also, according to the Holy Trinity, Jesus is the Son of God, but though Jesus, you get to the Father, therefore they both are needed to get God's word out. The Holy Spirit is the force and love that they have and what keeps things together. All 3 of them are needed to fully deliever the power of God. So all three are what God is made of. The problem is that this is very hard for most people to understand, so many different Christian factions now threw it out, because they do not know how to teach it. But like Mary being a Virgin, it's a teaching that Christians have had for over 1800 years, before in the mid 1850's about, different Christian factions changed their beliefs. I question that, because how can you change a way a religion is taught, when for over 1800 years it was taught a certain way, but without proof, you change it.
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in response to that....
i will never buy anything a moron tells me for one....
my reasons behind that is my cultural history and also my family history........
criminal go ahead and believe what he has to say... i dont care.. it is your soul not mines....
Reason Number one.....
It has never been documented in Native American histroy.... not once about jesus coming to the Americans during his time period.... there is no envidence of such things.... and if there was, dont you think all Native Americans would have been moron before the spanish came??
in my tribes and family history... and also the tribes that surrounded my tribe... will tell you the story of there greatgrandfather and the battles with the moron is california in the late 1800s and early 1900s of the burtality of the morons that settle here.... the house still stands where morons dwelll and killed many Native Americans that pass through the Cojon pass.... My great uncle paul would tell my fathers these stories.. and now they are passed down to me.... I am a southern Paiut women who comes from the san bernardino valley....that was once called the land of smoke... they called it this because in the mornings the valley would be filled with the some of the nations that would wake up and cook there breakfast before going about there day..... i know the history of my people.. and it is not pretty as the years go on... and the whites settle......
my great great uncle paul told these stories to his nieces and nephews for a reason... he lived during the time period when the indians were kicked out of california by the moron settlers and the white settlers... there is a house that still stands today... where a bunch of moron men would get to gether and kill any indians they saw passing through the Cojon pass.... my uncle paul was also a victume of these men... when he was walking through the pass with his sister.. one of them being my greatgrandmother .... was ran over by a horse of one of the men....... my dad told me this story... and other tribes that i have met at pow wows know the stories of this house too..... they know where it sits to this day.... that house was buildt for a reason... and it was to kill the indians that pass through..... when the morons settlers kicked the indians out of the valley... they moved us out to the desert....there was no food for the indains to eat.... so they were force to eat the garbage from a dump that laid out there... these are story.. that have been passed down to my dad.. from there we were forced into mexico.. were our culture was lost and had to adapted to the mexicans ways... my grandmother told me the stories of my uncle paul bring his sister back to america.. he had to pay money to do so...
our tribe was traders.. they would walk from the valley to the LA area to trade goods to one another tribes.... my uncle pauls name is on a plax that sits near the train station which btw his wife owned.... but they took that before he was finally forced into mexico....
truama you are setting here telling my belief is not corrected .... when your religion carries all kinds of faults..... if you came down here trauma.. these tribes can tell you the blood that your almighty religion holds... what is sad the state of california refuses to add these to the history books of our school children..... and tribes from all over can tell you about the same house... the same people.. who would sit out day to day.. killing and running indians off..... so why am i going to believe or agree with you biblical??
i know my family and tribal history... i been told by my grandmother and my father.. from a native american professior at San Bernardino Valley College and another paiut professior at UCR.............. trauma.. your religion is a shaim in my eyes..... nothing you can say biblically will ever be seen as valid in my eyes.......
my question to you now is.... how can jesus have come to the americas and not have any affect what so ever on the people... wouldnt you think.. by his mighty and loving touch... we as one people would have been saved? no we continued to believe in our God.. and some remain to believe in multi-gods....
i personally think your religion is a bunch of BS and is actually seen as a cult by other religion such as catholic and most protestant religions that are direct break-offs odf the catholic church... and not only catholics believe that mary was a virgin.. look at the church of england and lurthans??? Queen Elizabeth herself dressed like her...she is the mother of the church.. not just my church but churches....... she appeared to Juan Deigo in mexico city.... to help the indains from the mexican government.............
if you take this as a personal attack on your religion.. it is..... i dont believe a word of what you church has to say.. because it cant even to admit to the blood it has shed throughout history.... and it never will because honestly who wants to come out.. and say.. yeah we helped whip out the indians.. in the name of God and purity.....................
sorry if i offended anyone in this thread.... but this has been bothering me for sometime...and i am not about to let some moron tell me what is and what isnt... because the religion its self has not even been around 500 years.... it is a waist of time if you ask me...
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Well, sounds like I have a lot to say : LOL
First, to Infinite, thanks for being at least respectful. Yes, Christ should be worshipped, and is the Son of god. While Mormons dont' believe that Christ, the Father, and the Holy ghost are 1 in a trinity sense (parts of the same thing), they do believe that all 3 are seperate beings, but one in their perfection. All 3 are viewed as 'god', but are different people, so if you want to take that to mean that we worship many gods, so be it. Remember, at Jesus' baptism, he was there, the holy ghost was there, and God was there. How is this possible, if they're not all 3 different entities? Remember in the Garden of Gessemene, he prayed to his father, to know the will of the father (Father, remove this cup, but nevertheless, not my will, by thy will be done)... if they were part of the same entity, he would have known his father's will. It's just obvious to me, that in the bible, you're talking with 3 different entities, the son, the father, and the holy ghost.
M Dogg & Pink: Do you honestly think the catholic church has remained the same for 1800 years? Are you crazy? Have you guys not looked into this? It's NOTHING like it originally was. The bible has been slaughtered, entire books deleted from it by the catholic church, because they didn't agree with what they said.
About Mary in particular, she was probably the greatest woman that ever lived (She WAS chosen to be Jesus's mom, right? She must have raised him perfectly, what a woman). That doesn't mean that she had to be a virgin to do it! The reason Jesus's siblings aren't talked about in the earlier parts of his life are... because JESUS himself isn't talked about! Find me scriptures of Jesus as a child... the only one I know of is When he was teaching in the temple at a young age, and his mom scolded him, he told her he was "About his fathers work". Joseph and Mary had children after Jesus was born, just like any normal family. Do you honestly think Mary would never make love with her husband, her entire life? Why? What is good about that? M Dogg, you said she was "the perfect person" why does she have to be a virgin her whole life to be perfect? It's obviously god's plan for us to have sex in our families, there's only been what, Adam, Eve, and Jesus created without Sex throughout the world? There's nothing wrong with Sex, and I certainly wouldn't consider Mary a lesser person if later in her life she had children. There's nothing wrong with that.
As for Mormons attacking your ancestors, well, I'm sorry that they did. I won't even doubt it, even though I don't know the validity of what you said. Maybe all that and more happened, but those are the people of a religion, not the religion. Nothing about my religion teaches to harm people. On the other hand, ask around about what the catholic religion has done to people in other countries. Just as it would be unfair for me to judge you as a catholic, because of what some catholic did 200 years ago, it is very unfair for you to hate all latter day saints, just because they did something bad to your ancestors 200 years ago.
Next: You say there is no documentation of Jesus coming to america. Yes there is, the book of mormon for one, but if you dont' want to believe that, go to central america, and check out the pyramids and temples there. You'll see that synonomous through all of them is the worship of the great feathered serpent. The feathered serpent always has 11 feathers (representing the 11 apostles Christ left after his death)... the serpent is feathered, because like a serpent, Christ descended beneath the ground, and like a serpent with feathers, flew back to heaven.. there is TONS of symbolism in central america, YOU'RE HOMELAND that points to the worship of christ by the ancients, there are scenes of Mayans passing the sacrament just like I do every sunday, there are scenes carved of Mayans wearing white temple robes, there's even a stella depicting a man sitting in a cave, holding plates, and speaking the word of god (which is depicting Ether, the most ancient part of the book of mormon).
But you don't want to hear that, do you? YOu'd rather say your church is right, and it's been the same for 2000 years. You'd rather not think about the evidence that might exist in central america pointing to christ in america. You'd rather not read the book of mormon, where it explains and shows through documented history all of this.
How can you blame my church for killing your ancestors, when there were only a few thousand of them at that time? There were millions of Catholics killing your ancestors, 100 years before that! Are you daft?
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Well, sounds like I have a lot to say : LOL
First, to Infinite, thanks for being at least respectful. Yes, Christ should be worshipped, and is the Son of god. While Mormons dont' believe that Christ, the Father, and the Holy ghost are 1 in a trinity sense (parts of the same thing), they do believe that all 3 are seperate beings, but one in their perfection. All 3 are viewed as 'god', but are different people, so if you want to take that to mean that we worship many gods, so be it. Remember, at Jesus' baptism, he was there, the holy ghost was there, and God was there. How is this possible, if they're not all 3 different entities? Remember in the Garden of Gessemene, he prayed to his father, to know the will of the father (Father, remove this cup, but nevertheless, not my will, by thy will be done)... if they were part of the same entity, he would have known his father's will. It's just obvious to me, that in the bible, you're talking with 3 different entities, the son, the father, and the holy ghost.
M Dogg & Pink: Do you honestly think the catholic church has remained the same for 1800 years? Are you crazy? Have you guys not looked into this? It's NOTHING like it originally was. The bible has been slaughtered, entire books deleted from it by the catholic church, because they didn't agree with what they said.
About Mary in particular, she was probably the greatest woman that ever lived (She WAS chosen to be Jesus's mom, right? She must have raised him perfectly, what a woman). That doesn't mean that she had to be a virgin to do it! The reason Jesus's siblings aren't talked about in the earlier parts of his life are... because JESUS himself isn't talked about! Find me scriptures of Jesus as a child... the only one I know of is When he was teaching in the temple at a young age, and his mom scolded him, he told her he was "About his fathers work". Joseph and Mary had children after Jesus was born, just like any normal family. Do you honestly think Mary would never make love with her husband, her entire life? Why? What is good about that? M Dogg, you said she was "the perfect person" why does she have to be a virgin her whole life to be perfect? It's obviously god's plan for us to have sex in our families, there's only been what, Adam, Eve, and Jesus created without Sex throughout the world? There's nothing wrong with Sex, and I certainly wouldn't consider Mary a lesser person if later in her life she had children. There's nothing wrong with that.
As for Mormons attacking your ancestors, well, I'm sorry that they did. I won't even doubt it, even though I don't know the validity of what you said. Maybe all that and more happened, but those are the people of a religion, not the religion. Nothing about my religion teaches to harm people. On the other hand, ask around about what the catholic religion has done to people in other countries. Just as it would be unfair for me to judge you as a catholic, because of what some catholic did 200 years ago, it is very unfair for you to hate all latter day saints, just because they did something bad to your ancestors 200 years ago.
Next: You say there is no documentation of Jesus coming to america. Yes there is, the book of mormon for one, but if you dont' want to believe that, go to central america, and check out the pyramids and temples there. You'll see that synonomous through all of them is the worship of the great feathered serpent. The feathered serpent always has 11 feathers (representing the 11 apostles Christ left after his death)... the serpent is feathered, because like a serpent, Christ descended beneath the ground, and like a serpent with feathers, flew back to heaven.. there is TONS of symbolism in central america, YOU'RE HOMELAND that points to the worship of christ by the ancients, there are scenes of Mayans passing the sacrament just like I do every sunday, there are scenes carved of Mayans wearing white temple robes, there's even a stella depicting a man sitting in a cave, holding plates, and speaking the word of god (which is depicting Ether, the most ancient part of the book of mormon).
But you don't want to hear that, do you? YOu'd rather say your church is right, and it's been the same for 2000 years. You'd rather not think about the evidence that might exist in central america pointing to christ in america. You'd rather not read the book of mormon, where it explains and shows through documented history all of this.
How can you blame my church for killing your ancestors, when there were only a few thousand of them at that time? There were millions of Catholics killing your ancestors, 100 years before that! Are you daft?
it is in our history trauma.... you can come to california yourself and ask many native american people.... that dont know.. and they can tell you related or similar stories.....
2nd whats your point about the book of moron... any body can right a book..... look at the satanic bible... because it is a bible.. should i follow it?? i dont think so.....
2nd of all.... historians will disagree with your book of moron story anyways... where are these famious gold leives?? i dont see them in my history from my grandfather side... or... any other nativer american side... most native american believe the prophet is yet to come...... so you tell me truama... since you know so much about my cultural history from what you "church" has told you... and i know nothing through my grandparents.... what did juses do here anyways?? sorry my friend jesus never walked the americans.... it would have taken to long for him to ger here and back.. then still make it in time to meet budha......
2nd...yes i know the bible was changed millions of times.... by "protestants" not the catholic church..... i been trying to say that already for how long........ so stop saying my holy mother is not a Virgin because she was..... for she wouldnt have appeared in mexico claiming she was a virgin... btw that can be documented... because of the painting she left of Jaun Deigo's poncho... which also btw they cant even match up the herbs and componds in the paint to anything on the earth.... so.. how it got there.. only God can say.......remember this... you can say anything about jesus you wish.. because at the end you will pay for your faith... but to down or say things untrue about our blesses mother is other thing... how would you like it.. if someone said some untruths about your mother? besides... she just might be praying to our Lord to let you into heaven on your jugdment day... but hey... like i said.. your soul not mine.. i love Jesus.. and he has recently healed me from an unserious illness that i could just have learn to cope and deal with.... but i asked him to heal me... so i wouldnt have to suffer from it..... and i love his mother who comes to my aid when i am to ashamed to ask the lord for help.... she is sometime my strenght to keep me believing in his works... no matter how i choose to worship.....
so either lets agree to disagree... and no longer say untruthes about Our Mother of God.... or you can continue it.... and have to here me bitch about it
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The Bible goes into many details of Jesus's early life. Like him getting lost in the market, and asking many question of the older men. Jesus's was taught how to be a man from Joseph, and he was an old man. Mary was never said to have any other kids, and if she did, that would be written. The books taken from the Bible were repeating books that never went into detail about what happened.
As for Jesus walking in the Americans, NO. Now Jesus and Mary coming to the Americas and being seen in visions, well yeah. As a Mexican American, I do believe in the vision of the Virgin de Guadalupe and Juan Diego. Now for the Mayans, and what not, they might have saw visions, not quite sure, I'm Aztec Piute and Apache, not Mayan, but all of the tribes we come from agree with the Catholic faith.
And yes, Protestans took out many books. The books Catholics don't use are ones that repeat what they have already, and don't go into the same detail. I did the research. And finally, I told you, NEVER, EVER say anything about the Virgin to most Latina. She is too important to our culture, and traditional Latinas hold her in the highest reguards possible. She is called the Virgin, and to us, that means just that. Until Jesus comes down and says differently, then we can say.
The difference in the religions is that Catholics killed Natives in the name of Spain or Portigual, well Catholic priest came and helped the Natives hear the word of the Lord. Mormons came in the name of Christ, and they killed in his name, therefore using the Lords name in vain. Do I care about that history, not really, white people killed Native Americans for years. Nothing knew, just different religion, and different excuse.
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I don't want to argue about it anymore, i'm sure you have just as many reasons for being catholic as I do for being mormon. You've stated your opinions, and M Dogg, much love always, Even if we disagree I know we're still friends... but Pink, you need to grow up, and not get into childish crap like calling it 'the book of moron'... you're really not very mature, and you don't understand the nature of faith, from your comments. Maybe if you would start treating people with respect, you'd have a little better time at life. Peace~
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The Bible goes into many details of Jesus's early life. Like him getting lost in the market, and asking many question of the older men. Jesus's was taught how to be a man from Joseph, and he was an old man. Mary was never said to have any other kids, and if she did, that would be written. The books taken from the Bible were repeating books that never went into detail about what happened.
As for Jesus walking in the Americans, NO. Now Jesus and Mary coming to the Americas and being seen in visions, well yeah. As a Mexican American, I do believe in the vision of the Virgin de Guadalupe and Juan Diego. Now for the Mayans, and what not, they might have saw visions, not quite sure, I'm Aztec Piute and Apache, not Mayan, but all of the tribes we come from agree with the Catholic faith.
And yes, Protestans took out many books. The books Catholics don't use are ones that repeat what they have already, and don't go into the same detail. I did the research. And finally, I told you, NEVER, EVER say anything about the Virgin to most Latina. She is too important to our culture, and traditional Latinas hold her in the highest reguards possible. She is called the Virgin, and to us, that means just that. Until Jesus comes down and says differently, then we can say.
The difference in the religions is that Catholics killed Natives in the name of Spain or Portigual, well Catholic priest came and helped the Natives hear the word of the Lord. Mormons came in the name of Christ, and they killed in his name, therefore using the Lords name in vain. Do I care about that history, not really, white people killed Native Americans for years. Nothing knew, just different religion, and different excuse.
dont forget that the morons killed alot of native americans because of there little theory at the time about the darker you are,the more apart you are to good... so they basically did some ethic cleansing........ yes the virgin mary is very important to latins and native women.... we are suppose to be like her... even though some of us are currupted be american culture and practice immoral sexual acts... which btw is not right but happens.....
2nd of all jesus called everyone his brother..... that didnt mean it was so...... God chose mary because she was prefect....and knew that her soul was pure.... she followed her son till the end and stood at the foot of the cross.... when he died...... another thing is that mary never died... but sent into heaven with her son..... thats another belief that is rarely talked about in the catholic church... but it is taught through cathcizum.... mary is a virgin and remained a virgin all her life....
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I don't want to argue about it anymore, i'm sure you have just as many reasons for being catholic as I do for being mormon. You've stated your opinions, and M Dogg, much love always, Even if we disagree I know we're still friends... but Pink, you need to grow up, and not get into childish crap like calling it 'the book of moron'... you're really not very mature, and you don't understand the nature of faith, from your comments. Maybe if you would start treating people with respect, you'd have a little better time at life. Peace~
trauma... i am alot more mature then alot of people my age.... but you disrespected first when you even brought the comment up that mary and joesph had sex.... of course that is going to get a reaction..... common now.... she is important to the church and to her people... how can you just accuse her of being a false.....
i know your books are false because there is no hard evidance of such actions in the history books... when i see moron mayians.. that can validate your theory.. then i will concider the thought... of its happening...
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trauma... i am alot more mature then alot of people my age.... but you disrespected first when you even brought the comment up that mary and joesph had sex.... of course that is going to get a reaction..... common now.... she is important to the church and to her people... how can you just accuse her of being a false.....
i know your books are false because there is no hard evidance of such actions in the history books... when i see moron mayians.. that can validate your theory.. then i will concider the thought... of its happening...
If you think you're mature, your actions on here don't show it, and from talking with you, I don't see it. I commend you for your ROTC accomplishments, that's something to be proud of, though.
If you want to see Mormon Mayans, then go to this temple, in mexico city.
(http://www.lds.org/multimedia/files//5261_MEXICOMEX_st.jpg)
I'm sure there's plenty of them around there who can tell you all about it, and even show you evidence, if that's what you must have.
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OK... this is interesting, since Mayans were in Guatamula, the Aztecz were in Mexico. But we still cool dogg. Just that I have to clearify a religion that many people dismiss 'cause they never understand, but I study my religion. Also, if you think Unique is immature for her beliefs in the Virgin Mary, she is the same as most ever traditional Latinas 'cause many Latinas follow her example of how to be a perfect woman. Since Latinas are more into Catholism than Latinos, than you can almost say that the Virgin is our biggest symbol, though Jesus still is... LOL. Anyways, just a lot of cultural differences in the same religion. Funny how we believe in the same God, but our cultures differ so much, that we took up a whole thread explaining it.
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^^ Her religious beliefs have nothing to do with how mature she is. Her calling me a 'moron' does, though.
And my bad,I should have showed you this picture of Mormon Mayans, in Guatemala.
(http://www.lds.org/multimedia/files//5381_guatemalaGUA_st.jpg)
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trauma... i am alot more mature then alot of people my age.... but you disrespected first when you even brought the comment up that mary and joesph had sex.... of course that is going to get a reaction..... common now.... she is important to the church and to her people... how can you just accuse her of being a false.....
i know your books are false because there is no hard evidance of such actions in the history books... when i see moron mayians.. that can validate your theory.. then i will concider the thought... of its happening...
If you think you're mature, your actions on here don't show it, and from talking with you, I don't see it. I commend you for your ROTC accomplishments, that's something to be proud of, though.
If you want to see Mormon Mayans, then go to this temple, in mexico city.
(http://www.lds.org/multimedia/files//5261_MEXICOMEX_st.jpg)
I'm sure there's plenty of them around there who can tell you all about it, and even show you evidence, if that's what you must have.
ok take a minute and evaluate what you just said.... ROTC? where in the whole thread did i even discuss that part of my life? I am more mature then most people but my action are my action... i do alot of things in my daily life that you cant see... i go through my pains and like you i have many flaws..... but i am sorry trauma... i have studied my culture and the stories of my four fathers were told to me by my own..... a book is a book... but alot of native american stories about how the earth begain agree biblical to the Christian bible... making it easier to follow the belief... but there are still those who refuse to buy into the whole catholic religion and struggle to find there cultural spirituality through stroies that were told to them by there fathers.... i know my history through my father and i know my faith through my grandmother.... this faith is all she knows because her whole culture was robbed from her grandmothers....
you are in no position to say that i am immature.... none at all... who do you really think you are anyways... no one to me.. because i will just turn off this computer and go back to my studies.... also my friends and family.. people i attend class with.. dont see me as you see me...but then you have never seen me... or talked to me.. or anything me... so next time open your mouth a little wider ok....
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ooohweeee, everyone get ready for atleast a 5 page trip on this one ;D
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oh yeah another thing.. who actually attends that church anyways.. since most of the mayians were whipped out... so these people could not even be mayains attending the church......... i know my history....
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Jesus was Jewish...Just a normal Jewish person...So how does it make sense when a Non-Jewish person labels a Jewish guy a prophet or "Son of God"...I dont see how it makes sense to be Catholic or Christian, when you consider a Jew a holy prophet...Some of the New Testiment has been proven wrong...I'm not hating, I'm just curious about the whole chatolic/christian situation...
There's only one God...
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the thought of jesus being the son of god is just to much for some people to phathum... just like mary being a virgin all her life.. people cant phathum that... people seen just ressurected from the dead and still didnt believe..... i am just going to have to learn to accepted it... sad but true.... did it also accure to anyone that joesph wasnt mention through the whole bible... just in the beginning.... and maybe God sent joesph to marry mary because they would have killed her for being an unmarried women and pregnant... so did it accure to anyone here that maybe joesphs meaning was to take care of mary.. because it never said mary and joesph went to see jesus at the cross.. just mary...
it may be to much for someone to think about joesphs passing after the birth of christ....
these are just some thoughts for people to think about.. like i have... earlier today...
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umm listen..
the bible followed and practiced by the catholic religion was not written until 80 yrs after jesus's death.. that was the earliest gospel the final gospel that is recognized by the catholic church was written 150 yrs after jesus died. thats more than 3 generations later... take that for what you will...
secondly, if you go to europe or even in america and check out a major cathedral consider how those were built? where did the money come from? the weatlhy? somewhat, but in large part it was funeded by the poor either through direct taxation or by manipulating them to believe that their donations will bring them to a new life.
in rome for example the borghese galleria is considered by many to be the world's greatest personal collection of art. it includes many of benini's original sculptures as well as other amazing works of art... this collection was owned by a cardinal of the catholic church and assembled by funds taken from the poor and by theivery.many of the more spectacular peices were forced to be "donated" to the collection.
when pizzaro conquered the incan army he did so in the name of god. the incan king athallupa (i think that is spelled right) invited pizzaro to meet with him. when they met pizzaro handed athallupa the bible and ordered him to give up his idolitric religion and embrace jesus. athallupa not even knowing what a bible was refused and pizarro turned to his men announced that the incan king was an infidel and ordered them to attack. the incans were armed only with clubs, and the spanairds with swords and guns. they slaughtered an estimated 8,000 incans captured the king and ransomed him for all the gold in the land. when his people brought him the gold pizzaro executed king athallupa. all in the name of the catholic church.
in the 1900's the vatican openly tolerated slavery.
in jamaica gay's are commonly beaten and killed due to influence from catholic missionaries that converted much of jamaica. men who are born with speech impedements are often beaten because of on the belief that they may be gay. this comes from spending a week there and talking to many of the locals who attest to beating any man that even talks funny.
there are many other acts commited by the catholic church. just as there are acts commited by mormons and muslims and jews...
the point is.. believe what you want, but don't get so naive and arrogant to trash someone else becuz u think ur "mature".
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No one said the Catholic church is not fucked up. I'm the first to admit it has many flaws. But the faith itself does not commite these crimes. Just like the Muslim faith did not bust through the WTC, the Christians did not kill 6 million Jews and the Hindus and Muslim religions fight over land. The relgions don't do this, it's the people that follow. We as people do stupit shit, just like the Catholic followers killing many Native Americans, Muslim Moores and taking money fromt the rich. But the thing is that the Catholic Chruch also has done many great things, like all religion, and I do believe in what is teached, not done. I believe that Jesus Christ is the savor, I believe the Virgin Mary was the most perfect person, and that she was assended to Heaven, and that there is a Pregatory for all those who die, to allow them to see that Christ is the savor. Pregatory, and the Virgin Mary are beliefs that the Catholic Church holds, that non of the other Christian faiths don't hold. These are my beliefs, just like NIK is a Jew and Tech is a Muslim. We are questioned for this, because in the United States, in the Christian faith, it is looked down to be Catholic. Also, we are Mexican, which in our traditional culture, the Catholic Church is very much apart of community, and many religious leaders in the Catholic Church continue to fight for the rights of the poor Latin Americas all over Latin America. So well others look at the negatives, I see what I believe, see the faults of the past, and see the improvements that has taken place now.
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Also, books written 3 generations ago would be like if you wrote down your grandpa's stories about like WWII. It's not that off, and a lot closer to the time of Christ then when Protestians re-wrote stuff 1500 years later. And as you can tell by Trauma's story, Christ has be proven to live, and is considered important, so them stories that were written in books had to have some sort of truth, and when I listened to my late grandpa talk, I could have wrote it down, and I could be pretty close to what was truth.
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umm yeah exactly pretty close to the truth. but many time people take word for word literal interpretations.
many times when a story is retold is becomes more grand.
also if u want to site the evidence trauma showed u of jesus's existence then u must also consider the other gospels that are found but ignored by the church. there are gospels dating to the time of jesus, explaining his life and telling different stories but the church will not admit to its existence.
and while u can say the church did not influence people, when they openly tolerate slavery in the 1800s and when u have cardinals going around stealing and condeming people whatever. u can blame it on people
my belief is this, all religions have good and bad, they are all corrupt in some ways... so why would i stick to EVERY single belief the church tells me
the church says mary was a virgin, the church also said slavery was an ok thing to do... SEE THE POINT?
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umm yeah exactly pretty close to the truth. but many time people take word for word literal interpretations.
many times when a story is retold is becomes more grand.
also if u want to site the evidence trauma showed u of jesus's existence then u must also consider the other gospels that are found but ignored by the church. there are gospels dating to the time of jesus, explaining his life and telling different stories but the church will not admit to its existence.
and while u can say the church did not influence people, when they openly tolerate slavery in the 1800s and when u have cardinals going around stealing and condeming people whatever. u can blame it on people
my belief is this, all religions have good and bad, they are all corrupt in some ways... so why would i stick to EVERY single belief the church tells me
the church says mary was a virgin, the church also said slavery was an ok thing to do... SEE THE POINT?
No I don't. Because I told you, I think that people fuck up leading the church.
Let's start with the books. Like the Gospel of Thomas. It's basically like the other Gospels,same stories, and not as much detail. Other books like this exist also, but the books used are the ones that have the simular story as the others. So if like 5 books say that Jesus rose a child up from the dead, then they will say that it happen. If you only have one story of Jesus becoming superpowerful, and doing things that people didn't remember, no matter how great it was, then you have to question the source, if no one knew what was going on. I know of all these books, because I keep inform, but to be honest, I think the early founders of the church knew what they were doing, and I trust them for laying the early foundation to the religion that is now Christianity. Most people know question them, but we have no rights, some new books pop up, and we feel lied too, know thinking about why they weren't put in. But non of the stories counter act with the church curtant belief, some very much strengthn, but all have reasons.
As for what the church tells me. It's not the church, it's the Bible. The Bible says that Mary assended into heaven, the Bible says that there is a Prigatory, and it was people that said slavery was right. Now who am I going to believe, the book of God, or some people. And as I say, I'm the first to say the Catholic Church has done some fucked up things, but they are now one of the leaders behind fighting for peoples rights. That's the truth. Peace.
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my point is this...
the catholic church provides us with guidance. that is all. to believe it all 100% is up to u but i think is nuts. they have in the past been wrong numerous occasions, as have other religions and other sects within christianity.
but just as each sect or religion has its faults they all have their benefits. if u look to them for guidance u gain more than if u look to them for complete answers.
the catholic church is not completely right. different muslim beliefs are slightly misguided. different buddhist beliefs are too. mormons have some errors in their beliefs as well.
they all have pluses as well..... its up to each person to decide for themself what that religion has to offer them and what they disagree with.
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LOL... isn't that what I said I did... LOL
Oh Well
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Ant you're confusing sects and cults, what the media say is a cult is actually a sect (Like the crazy dude in Waco or Moonies).