West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: OG Hack Wilson on June 27, 2009, 02:41:12 PM
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1-10
Babe Ruth (RF/P)
Ted Williams (LF)
Lou Gehrig (1B)
Ty Cobb (CF)
Josh Gibson (C...negro leagues)
Mickey Mantle (CF)
Willie Mays (CF)
Rogers Hornsby (2B)
Barry Bonds* (LF)
Hank Aaron (RF)
11-20
Tris Speaker (CF)
Honus Wagner (SS/2B)
John Henry Lloyd (SS...negro leagues)
Mike Schmidt (3B)
Yogi Berra (C)
Johnny Bench (C)
Joe Dimaggio (CF)
Oscar Charleston (CF...negro leagues)
Jimmie Foxx (1B)
Alex Rodriguez* (SS/3B)
21-30
Stan Musial (LF)
Ken Griffey Jr (CF)
Frank Robinson (RF)
Willie McCovey (1B)
Shoeless Joe Jackson (RF)
Hank Greenberg (1B)
Joe Morgan (2B)
Rickey Henderson (LF)
Jeff Bagwell (1B)
Eddie Mathews (3B)
31-40
Carl Yasztremski (RF)
Ernie Banks (SS)
Duke Snider (CF)
Roy Campanella (C)
Jackie Robinson (2B)
Cal Ripken Jr (SS/3B)
Albert Pujols (1B) <---will finish in the top 10 unless he gets hurt)
Pete Rose (RF)
Reggie Jackson (RF)
Ralph Kiner (RF)
41-50
Manny Ramirez* (LF/RF)
Eddie Collins (2B)
Mike Piazza (C)
Sammy Sosa* (RF)
Arky Vaughen (SS)
Buck Leonard (1B...Negro leagues)
Hack Wilson (CF)
Nap Lajoe (2B)
Cristobal Torrienti (CF/RF..negro leagues)
Derek Jeter (SS)
not including pitchers ofcourse...tried to include as few steroiders as i could but i had to throw in the top 5 or so of them
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looks like i left Frank thomas off.
oh well...he's spent over half his career as a DH anyways lol
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I will just do my top 5 right now but I do want to take the time to make a top 50. Propz for this Hack!!
1. Willie Mays - would of hit 800 Home Runs if it wasn't for the polo grounds and missed time in the war. He could truly do it all, the ultimate 5 tool player.
2. Babe Ruth - Who else has ever dominated an era like Ruth dominated his? Bonds from 2001-2004 was real close and maybe even but Ruth was a great pitcher and despite the era he played in you cant take that away from him.
3. Barry Bonds - Was already one of the best to ever play before the allegations. Over 750 Home Runs and over 500 Stolen bases, that is the ultimate feat showing an amazing combination of speed and power. Also 8 gold gloves and 7 MVP's.
4. Ted Williams - The finest hitter that has ever lived.
5. Hank Aaron - A remarkable showing of longevity and consistency.
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Ichiro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sosa with or without roids
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Ichiro>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Sosa with or without roids
the following players I REALLY wanted to add:
-Sadohara Oh
-Tony Gwynn
-Vlad Guerrerro
-Ichiro Suzuki
-Frank Thomas (he should've been on there over Bagwell...oh well)
Ichico needes a few more MLB years to be on the list in my eyes....did you realize that him and Albert Pujols have almost the same exact batting average since both coming into the league in 2001.
except Ichico steals alot more bases and Albert hits alot more HR's
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I think Gwynn has to be top 50
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i suppose Nap Lajoie can be removed
but he hit .426 once! lol
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if Ich joined the league when he was 20, dude would have most hits all time & possibly a season where he batted .400. :P
Ich is my second favorite player, i just love the way the guy plays.
Jeter is my favorite player, but Hack i don't know if i'd put him top 50 players ever; but i'd have to look at it.
Ich deserves to make the 50. 8)
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I don't want this to sound like I am a Yankee hater because I have always liked Jeter but I don't think he belongs in this list at all. Just my opinion
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I don't want this to sound like I am a Yankee hater because I have always liked Jeter but I don't think he belongs in this list at all. Just my opinion
like i said, he is my personal favorite player & i don't know if he deserves a spot on a top 50 all time list.
you're not a hater. ;)
now, i don't want to sound like a racist lol, but is Jackie Robinson a "no-brainer" top 50 player?
yeah, he changed the game & got a whole race involved, but that would have eventually happened anyway.
honestly, when you think about Jackie, you think "first black player" & "he stole home on Yogi".
a career .311 hitter, with a few stand out season.
but Chase Utley, Dustin Pedroia will have better career numbers & Cano & Kinsler will have similar, if not slightly better numbers than Jackie.
i don't know, what do you guys think?
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if Ich joined the league when he was 20, dude would have most hits all time & possibly a season where he batted .400. :P
Ich is my second favorite player, i just love the way the guy plays.
Jeter is my favorite player, but Hack i don't know if i'd put him top 50 players ever; but i'd have to look at it.
Ich deserves to make the 50. 8)
so......so your saying Ichiro would mysteriously get the other 2,300+ hits he needs from age 20-27 to pass pete rose???
and Jeter is the best hitting CLEAN shortstop since ernie banks...and unlike Banks Jeter could preform in the post season 8)
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Oh, good you went back to the Hack Wilson name. It was weird when you was another name. Your name sticks. And also, Ozzie Smith was left off. 1 of the best, if not best defensive shortstops ever.
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if Ich joined the league when he was 20, dude would have most hits all time & possibly a season where he batted .400. :P
Ich is my second favorite player, i just love the way the guy plays.
Jeter is my favorite player, but Hack i don't know if i'd put him top 50 players ever; but i'd have to look at it.
Ich deserves to make the 50. 8)
so......so your saying Ichiro would mysteriously get the other 2,300+ hits he needs from age 20-27 to pass pete rose???
and Jeter is the best hitting CLEAN shortstop since ernie banks...and unlike Banks Jeter could preform in the post season 8)
exactly lol.
we don't know if we saw Ich in his prime, he could have gotten 270 one or two seasons, back when he was 24-25; plus he was faster back then, you're just naturally faster in your 20-25 years than you are in your 30-35 years; so their is more infield hits too.
HE IS A MONSTER! :o ;D
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if Ich joined the league when he was 20, dude would have most hits all time & possibly a season where he batted .400. :P
Ich is my second favorite player, i just love the way the guy plays.
Jeter is my favorite player, but Hack i don't know if i'd put him top 50 players ever; but i'd have to look at it.
Ich deserves to make the 50. 8)
so......so your saying Ichiro would mysteriously get the other 2,300+ hits he needs from age 20-27 to pass pete rose???
and Jeter is the best hitting CLEAN shortstop since ernie banks...and unlike Banks Jeter could preform in the post season 8)
exactly lol.
we don't know if we saw Ich in his prime, he could have gotten 270 one or two seasons, back when he was 24-25; plus he was faster back then, you're just naturally faster in your 20-25 years than you are in your 30-35 years; so their is more infield hits too.
HE IS A MONSTER! :o ;D
chamil
MLB players best seasons generally come from age 25-32
Ichirio is not getting 300 hits a year in those 7 years....and btw singles aren't that important anyway lol
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Yeah, be careful with the Alber Pujols "unless he gets hurt" shit. Griffey was well on his way to being a top 10 all time EASILY, if he didnt get hurt. He's missed 2 full seasons of baseball due to injuries. He'd have well over 3,000 hits by now, over 700 HR's and aiming for the record, and a ton of gold glove, etc awards. Injuries are a bitch lol
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1-10
Babe Ruth (RF/P)
Ted Williams (LF)
Lou Gehrig (1B)
Ty Cobb (CF)
Josh Gibson (C...negro leagues)
Mickey Mantle (CF)
Willie Mays (CF)
Rogers Hornsby (2B)
Barry Bonds* (LF)
Hank Aaron (RF)
11-20
Tris Speaker (CF)
Honus Wagner (SS/2B)
John Henry Lloyd (SS...negro leagues)
Mike Schmidt (3B)
Yogi Berra (C)
Johnny Bench (C)
Joe Dimaggio (CF)
Oscar Charleston (CF...negro leagues)
Jimmie Foxx (1B)
Alex Rodriguez* (SS/3B)
21-30
Stan Musial (LF)
Ken Griffey Jr (CF)
Frank Robinson (RF)
Willie McCovey (1B)
Shoeless Joe Jackson (RF)
Hank Greenberg (1B)
Joe Morgan (2B)
Rickey Henderson (LF)
Jeff Bagwell (1B)
Eddie Mathews (3B)
31-40
Carl Yasztremski (RF)
Ernie Banks (SS)
Duke Snider (CF)
Roy Campanella (C)
Jackie Robinson (2B)
Cal Ripken Jr (SS/3B)
Albert Pujols (1B) <---will finish in the top 10 unless he gets hurt)
Pete Rose (RF)
Reggie Jackson (RF)
Ralph Kiner (RF)
41-50
Manny Ramirez* (LF/RF)
Eddie Collins (2B)
Mike Piazza (C)
Sammy Sosa* (RF)
Arky Vaughen (SS)
Buck Leonard (1B...Negro leagues)
Hack Wilson (CF)
Nap Lajoe (2B)
Cristobal Torrienti (CF/RF..negro leagues)
Derek Jeter (SS)
not including pitchers ofcourse...tried to include as few steroiders as i could but i had to throw in the top 5 or so of them
oh and I dont know about Willie Mays at 7th? lol
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The problem with Ichiro is that the argument is way too dependent on the "what ifs." I'm sure if he came to the MLB at a younger age he still would have put up dominant numbers during the years, but the bottom line is that you can't just make assumptions when talking about accomplishments (which is what really matters when making greatest of all-time lists).
It's just like how people say Arvydas Sabonis would have been a Top 10 center of all-time if his country allowed him to come to the NBA when he got drafted. Instead, he doesn't get to come to the NBA until the age of 31 and we're all left speculating what could have happened.
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Hack knows a ton of sports and deserves propz for this list but Mays has to be top 3. The only player I ever hear people put above him is Ruth and a lot of people have Mays at #1.
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what does the * mean besides them bein caught or anything to do wit roids?
(they still get in right?)
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Hack knows a ton of sports and deserves propz for this list but Mays has to be top 3. The only player I ever hear people put above him is Ruth and a lot of people have Mays at #1.
Whatever, he also put Williams and Gehrig above Cobb. I don't think people seem to realize how huge Cobb would be today if he simply shut his mouth about his opinions and kept his hands to himself. The only question is whether he'd hit HRs in the live ball era, but more of that has to do with Cobb wanting to swing for the fences. The guy was a baserunner and a placement hitter. The famous story is In 1925 when he was 38 years old he tod a reporter that any top hitter could hit homeruns. This was durring a series against the Yanks. He told the reporter that he was going to swing for the fences today. In game 1 he went 6 or 6 with 3 HRs, a double and 2 singles. The next day another 2 HRs. Then he went back to his normal batting stance and started hitting small ball again.
Does this mean he'd have the HR record? No, but he'd have had a lot more than 100 career homeruns if he wanted them.
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Hack knows a ton of sports and deserves propz for this list but Mays has to be top 3. The only player I ever hear people put above him is Ruth and a lot of people have Mays at #1.
well look at it this way
how can you argue against
ty cobb: even during the Babe ruth days people were still saying Cobb was better
lou gehrig: the most clutch post season hitter ever
josh gibson: the black babe ruth
mickey mantle: Mays' primary competition as best CF of the the 50s and 60s
ted williams: his offense over Mays alone makes up for the fact he sucked at defense
i could easily argue for putting Tris Speaker in the top 5...but i won't. partly because he was a Klan member lol
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if Ich joined the league when he was 20, dude would have most hits all time & possibly a season where he batted .400. :P
Ich is my second favorite player, i just love the way the guy plays.
Jeter is my favorite player, but Hack i don't know if i'd put him top 50 players ever; but i'd have to look at it.
Ich deserves to make the 50. 8)
so......so your saying Ichiro would mysteriously get the other 2,300+ hits he needs from age 20-27 to pass pete rose???
and Jeter is the best hitting CLEAN shortstop since ernie banks...and unlike Banks Jeter could preform in the post season 8)
exactly lol.
we don't know if we saw Ich in his prime, he could have gotten 270 one or two seasons, back when he was 24-25; plus he was faster back then, you're just naturally faster in your 20-25 years than you are in your 30-35 years; so their is more infield hits too.
HE IS A MONSTER! :o ;D
chamil
MLB players best seasons generally come from age 25-32
Ichirio is not getting 300 hits a year in those 7 years....and btw singles aren't that important anyway lol
singles are his whole game & when he hit the scene he was one of the fastest, imagine him beating out base hits when he was at his fastest. :o
The problem with Ichiro is that the argument is way too dependent on the "what ifs." I'm sure if he came to the MLB at a younger age he still would have put up dominant numbers during the years, but the bottom line is that you can't just make assumptions when talking about accomplishments (which is what really matters when making greatest of all-time lists).
can't front, real talk. :-\
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Well Hack there is no denying you bring up good points but here is my argument for making Mays 1 or 2. Maybe Willie Mays wasn't the absolute best in any category but he was one of the best in every single aspect of the game. I mean lets first look at hitting. The guy was one of the best Home Run hitters of all time while still being a lifetime .300 hitter and compiling over 3,000 hits in his career, that shows that when it comes to hitting for power and average he could combine the two as well as any player who ever played the game. It is then obvious that when it came to speed, defense and a throwing arm he was as great in those tools as anyone else. Mays was the type of player that could do anything he wanted to while he played. He rarely focused on doing nothing but hitting home runs but when he did he set a record at the time in hitting 36 Homers before the all star break before his manager told him to do otherwise. Also when Mays began his career and focused on stealing bases he lead the majors in steals for 4 straight seasons.
I just feel like when it comes to all around talent and mastering the 5 tools, Mays is the best all around player to ever play the game.
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Mays is two on my list & Ted is three.
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I just feel like when it comes to all around talent and mastering the 5 tools, Mays is the best all around player to ever play the game.
I've recently had this argument before but you are forgetting pitching. You can argue Mays over Ruth in everything but the easy ones like Home Runs, and batting average, but it's not even a debate in pitching. The best Centre Fielder off all time is not as important to a World Series or a game as a pitcher that can pitch a shut out.
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Well Hack there is no denying you bring up good points but here is my argument for making Mays 1 or 2. Maybe Willie Mays wasn't the absolute best in any category but he was one of the best in every single aspect of the game. I mean lets first look at hitting. The guy was one of the best Home Run hitters of all time while still being a lifetime .300 hitter and compiling over 3,000 hits in his career, that shows that when it comes to hitting for power and average he could combine the two as well as any player who ever played the game. It is then obvious that when it came to speed, defense and a throwing arm he was as great in those tools as anyone else. Mays was the type of player that could do anything he wanted to while he played. He rarely focused on doing nothing but hitting home runs but when he did he set a record at the time in hitting 36 Homers before the all star break before his manager told him to do otherwise. Also when Mays began his career and focused on stealing bases he lead the majors in steals for 4 straight seasons.
I just feel like when it comes to all around talent and mastering the 5 tools, Mays is the best all around player to ever play the game.
Ty Cobb is a better 5 tool player....the best hitter and slugger of his era, best base-stealer ever and a solid defensive centerfielder (although Tris Speaker is the best defensive CFer ever)
as far as Ruth over Mays...Mays edges him on defense but Ruth was no slouch in the field. Before he got fat in his older age he was an above average defender who always had a rifle of an arm (obviously fro mbeing a pitcher). and as for hitting Ruth dwarfs anybody.
Ruth accomplsihed everything in his career and won 7 rings...and had 90 wins as a pitcher by the way ;)
and Mays was not as good a hitter as Mantle OR Aaron....but much better on defense and base stealing. I'll still take Mantle over Mays because he accomplished just as much and had more great playoff preformances and rings. Mays lasted longer but Mantle's "peak" years as a hitter were much better.
and Shallow....great point on the fact the Mays never pitched a shut out in the world series. Ruth did. Ruth's postseason pitching stats are some of the b est ever...as are his hitting
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playoff stats:
Babe Ruth .326 batting average, .467 on-base percentage, .744 slugging %, 15 HR, 33 RBI in 41 games (167 at-bats) - 7 rings
Willie Mays .247 batting average, .323 on-base percentage, .337 slugging %, 1 home run, 10 RBI in 25 games (99 at-bats) 1 ring
Lou Gehrig .361 batting average, .471 on-base percentage, .731 slugging %, 10 HR, 35 RBI in 34 games (150 at-bats) - 6 rings
Hank Aaron .362 batting average, .405 on-base percentage, .705 slugging %, 6 HR, 16 RBI in 17 games (69 at-bats) - 1 ring
Mickey Mantle .257 batting average, .374 on-base percentage, .535 slugging %, 18 HR, 40 RBI in 65 games (273-at bats) - 7 rings
3 contemporaries and 2 other "elites" from my list.
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We will always disagree on this Hack ;D
I think Ruth is the only player that can be mentioned above Mays but it's all opinions.
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We will always disagree on this Hack ;D
I think Ruth is the only player that can be mentioned above Mays but it's all opinions.
just do me a favor and do some reading up on Ty Cobb
he was an asshole of a person....but sometimes I think of him as better than Ruth because Cobb was THE complete player of all time............just sucks he played in the dead ball era from 1906-1919 and was aging in the live ball era
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/cobbty01.shtml