West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: KURUPTION-81 on February 10, 2010, 11:15:10 AM
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I was chatting to a couple of mates about lil waynes new album, when one of them said something along the line of "ive got no time for wayne or snoop im on my conscious hip hop".
Now im no expert on conscious hip hop, but im interested to know what is deemed as conscious hip hop and why ? Is it merely the subject matter or the fact there not in the mainstream.
To me people like Tupac, Beanie Sigel, Joe Budden have made conscious tracks as have many more but wouldnt be deemed as a conscious rapper because of either there sales or the labels they are/were signed to.
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KRS, Pre-row Pac, common & Kweli come to mind
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I don't think it's as much about mainstream/underground as it is content. Look at Nas, he's been in the mainstream for years but continues to make conscious tracks. Of course, underground artists are more likely to make conscious songs cause they're generally rapping about principle and not what their label is telling them to do, but some mainstream rappers can still be considered conscious.
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The term should be Conscious Gangsta Rap imo. Gangsta Rap despite the fact it was a negative rap divulging into a act of ignorance was a realistic bastard of content. Ice Cube shows this perfectly he can blend Conscious rap with out pandering to gangsta content, Death Certificate shows this (IMO Amerikkka Most Wanted still hand Gangsta pander elements within). Everyone Quotes 2pac as being 1 of the best, an Limits his Gangsta Rap material to Death Row, but the reality is he created That "Money" Attitude, and already had a gangsta rap ideal on some of his records. He didn't how ever tried and make him appear nothing but straight gangsta, instead did a bunch of tracks reflecting on the multiple sides of the streets/people.
Honestly Conscious hip-hop 2 me is speaking on real shit. Even if its just a story, as long as its speaking on the real problems its Conscious 2 me.
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nice posts by the people above, Ice Cube is a good example of a rapper who was both mainstream and conscious, although I think Nas is the best example...Wutang is another example of being both mainstream and conscious
Best Conscious Rap Albums:
1. Dead Prez- Let's Get Free - Deals with black panther concepts, and also black is beauty concepts, such as the song "Mind Sex" is the ultimate conscious anti-thesis to a Lil Wayne track like "Lollipop". Songs like "Propaganda" are almost prophetic as they hit just before the increased government excesses that occurred after 9-11, such as the Patriot Act and War on Terrorism.
2. Talib Kweli and Hi Tek- Train of Thought- This album had a lot of African influences in it. There were drum patterns used throughout that were African sounds, with pro-black, back to Africa style lyrics. Also, Talib touches on issues of slavery and it's psychological effect on black people, he also dives into themes of "love" in places where most rap albums only discuss sex. He raps about his son, and his parents, his memories, it's a very expressive and emotional album in many places. He also gets into politics, presenting the government as the "real thugs".
3. Mos Def and Talib Kweli- Black Star- Similar to the album I described above. Black consciousness at it's best. Also, there deeper understanding of hip-hop and it's roots, and respect/tributes to the pioneers of hip-hop is what makes this a great album.
4. Ras Kass- Soul On Ice- This album is probably a little more hardcore then most so-called conscious albums. because Ras never described himself as a conscious rapper. Yet, tracks like "Nature of the Threat" may be some of the best conscious tracks ever. The track is an epic and details black vs. white, Christian vs. Muslim history from ancient Egypt and Greece to the modern era. His other tracks deal with an American Dream that has gone wrong, the affects of black people being driven towards their animal nature, and the consequences of such behavior.
5. Fugees- The Score- Again it's a black conscious album, dealing in themes of Afrocentrism. Also Lauryn gets into politics, and even more so psychology, raps effects on the listeners psychology, often they mock and criticize popular rap culture, which is nothing new or impressive by itself, it's just that they did it better and sounded better than anybody else. Their are also island influences with Wyclef being from Haiti, Rasta influences from Reggae sounds of Jamaica and so on. This album is very thought-provoking and spiritually moving in many places.
Some great conscious songs by rappers who are mainstream...
1. Nas and Mob Deep- "Self-Conscience"
2. Nas- "My Country"
3. Nas- "What Goes Around"
4. 2pac- "White Man's World"
5. 2pac- "Hold Your Head"
Other great conscious rappers that come to mind
KRS 1
Brand Nubian
De La Soul
Common
Paris
Tribe Called Quest
X Clan
..there's many things I didn't mention just wanted to give the original threadstarter some basic info and my take on the subject
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It's a fucking term that corporate people use to pigeon hole certain artist.
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It's a fucking term that corporate people use to pigeon hole certain artist.
No.. it's a word used to describe the difference between a rapper like Lil Wayne and a rapper like Talib Kweli.
So if somebody asks you, "yo, what's the difference between Lil Wayne and Talib Kweli in their styles?"
You could say "Well, you know, music is music, it's all music.. you know everything is the same, just like all food tastes the same and all women look the same, it's all the same, you know"
Or... you could describe to them the difference between the two... "You see, Lil Waynes music is more ignorant, like a lot of South shit that came out and fucked up hip-hop. While on the other hand, Talib Kweli, you know he knows his history, he gives respect to the pioneers, he's very Afrocentric; kind of labeled as alternative, conscious hip-hop."
Which is more descriptive?
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Stop it Lyin' Brian, you don't listen to any southern rap you have no idea what they are saying, nor could you understand an insightful line even if you heard it loud and clear because you need it to be spelled out in language you can understand, which automatically disqualifies most black people.
Real pioneers in hip hop made schoolbook nursery rhymes for people to dance to at night clubs. There weren;t any Immortal Technique or Dead Prez acts at the the beginning of hip hop. FACT. People who say hip hop is dead are full of shit. Hip hop is going back to it's roots more and more every day, deal with it nerds.
The term "conscious" is a double edged sword as it gives more credit due to rappers who spend almost all of their subject matter dealing with social issues (often incorrectly), and dismissing other rappers who don't as "everybody else", whereas those "other rappers" might be saying some real shit, just with more profanity and over a crunk beat. UGK or Goodie Mob for instance, detail life so incredibly and relate to the average man that if you feel what they are saying, they are most definitely "conscious" of real life in their rhymes.
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Stop it Lyin' Brian, you don't listen to any southern rap you have no idea what they are saying, nor could you understand an insightful line even if you heard it loud and clear because you need it to be spelled out in language you can understand, which automatically disqualifies most black people.
Real pioneers in hip hop made schoolbook nursery rhymes for people to dance to at night clubs. There weren;t any Immortal Technique or Dead Prez acts at the the beginning of hip hop. FACT. People who say hip hop is dead are full of shit. Hip hop is going back to it's roots more and more every day, deal with it nerds.
The term "conscious" is a double edged sword as it gives more credit due to rappers who spend almost all of their subject matter dealing with social issues (often incorrectly), and dismissing other rappers who don't as "everybody else", whereas those "other rappers" might be saying some real shit, just with more profanity and over a crunk beat. UGK or Goodie Mob for instance, detail life so incredibly and relate to the average man that if you feel what they are saying, they are most definitely "conscious" of real life in their rhymes.
What point are you trying to make, monkey?
I never said Goodie Mob wasn't conscious, monkey!
Also if the word "conscious" has been misused then so be it. Maybe we should take all the adjectives out of the dictionary for fear they might be misused, eh monkey?
Last point, monkey; The pioneers were conscious in the sense that they had deep respect and understanding for the culture in which they were involved. They were a part of it a movement that started small and would eventually overtake the whole world. So maybe some of their raps were simple, but the culture was very artistic and progressive and it did not promote the ignorance that is promoted in rap today, monkey!
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People who say hip hop is dead are full of shit.
I dunno about going back to its roots, but i agree that hip-hop is definately not dead, people are just too stupid and uninitiated to discern real hip-hop and dope artists therefore they go about talking that hip-hop is dead shit. Infact I think hip-hop and rap especially has been quite strong and hip-hop has grown to encompass a wider variety of content.
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Its definitely just about content. The only issue with the branding of 'conscious' hip hop is it has its negatives as a label.
But getting away from that side of things basically Conscious Rap is rap with intelligence. By that token Biggie et al could be just as conscious as Kweli.
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It's a fucking term that corporate people use to pigeon hole certain artist.
No.. it's a word used to describe the difference between a rapper like Lil Wayne and a rapper like Talib Kweli.
So if somebody asks you, "yo, what's the difference between Lil Wayne and Talib Kweli in their styles?"
You could say "Well, you know, music is music, it's all music.. you know everything is the same, just like all food tastes the same and all women look the same, it's all the same, you know"
Or... you could describe to them the difference between the two... "You see, Lil Waynes music is more ignorant, like a lot of South shit that came out and fucked up hip-hop. While on the other hand, Talib Kweli, you know he knows his history, he gives respect to the pioneers, he's very Afrocentric; kind of labeled as alternative, conscious hip-hop."
Which is more descriptive?
M.O.P., Onyx & DMX are ignorant as well there goes your argument
One could also call Big L ignorant for making that murder shit when another person sees a track like 'casualties of a dice game' as very conscious
Last point, monkey; The pioneers were conscious in the sense that they had deep respect and understanding for the culture in which they were involved. They were a part of it a movement that started small and would eventually overtake the whole world. So maybe some of their raps were simple, but the culture was very artistic and progressive and it did not promote the ignorance that is promoted in rap today, monkey!
Great job at showing no understanding of the term culture.
With the expansion of hiphop the differences between different sub-cultures would increase & more subcultures would arise, there is no such thing as a pure culture.
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Too Short - The Ghetto
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With hip hop, alot of people, what they think is hip hop isnt even close to being 'proper' hip hop. They assume Hip POP is the be all and end all of Hip Hop. All that bullshit Lil Wayne, Soulja Boy, Chamillionaire talking shit over club beats aint hip hop, Hip hop is about lyrics and content and for being a voice of the oppressed and for those in a struggle, not rapping about materialistic bullshit, a glamorous life, guns and bitches over club beats and a adding a singy songy hook. It's a shame that most people think commercial hip pop is 'hip pop', ah well ignorance is bliss.
To me hip hop is thought provoking, dont get me wrong when im at a party or with a bunch of mates, music is just about the beat, but for me personally 'hip hop' is not music you shake your ass to, it's something you listen to when you own, in a serious zone, where u can listen to something introspective, emotive, retrospective and/or reflective of real situations. I like to listen to an 'MC' come with a concept or story or hard facts, rather then a rapper whose purely gonna 'entertain'.
Hip Pop is bullshit, it's a marketing tactic that brainwashes the minds of the youth into thinking that these lame ass rappers do have good lyrics. If you want good lyrics go listen to the real hip hop: KRS-One, Mos Def, Gangstarr, Rakim, and Common. Just to name a few. Every video and record you hear and see today that the masses think is Hip Hop isn't. Real Hip HOP artists don't get their records played on the radio every 20 seconds. If an artist is rapping about being a pimp, clothes, hoes and rims, he is HIP POP. Old school HIP HOP was about the knowledge. Knowledge apparently doesn't sell records anymore.
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I'm suprised nobody has mentioned Lupe Fiasco, if you listen to some of his tracks it's easy to see why he'd be considered "socio-concious" and how the term fits. Others, such as Common, Talib Kweli, early Kanye come to mind as "socio-concious" rappers. They're rapping about things which concern society today as a whole.
As for the Concious Gangster Rap someone mentioned, then we're talking NWA, 2Pac, those kind of artists, who often painted dark images of what goes on in the hood with the underlying message of wanting things to change, either on the government side or by the people themselves changing their actions.
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I hate you mutherfuckas that keep telling other people what is and isn't hip-hop. Go suck a dick an die.
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I hate you mutherfuckas that keep telling other people what is and isn't hip-hop. Go suck a dick an die.
exactly
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how the fuck is 'casualties of a dice game' a conscious track ???
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If ya'll cats want to get on point with some conscious hip hop artists, then you should check out Jasiri X, and NYOIL
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I hate you mutherfuckas that keep telling other people what is and isn't hip-hop. Go suck a dick an die.
+1
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Conscious hip hop can be made by any rapper. I personally feel that people like Wayne not addressing issues true to the hometown (like how many times has Wayne properly covered Katrina affecting New Orleans?) is bad for hip hop though. I don't think there's a problem with artists making club songs but to have albums/songs consistently about money/girls/how good you are = a lack of originality.
One of the things that is making hip hop BORING to me is that there's no competition. How can people like Wayne go around calling themselves the GOAT yet nobody challenge him. Would Wayne really put out Rebirth if Jay Z had just dropped a Takeover towards him? Rick Ross released an album that didn't overly bend towards the mainstream cause he was under pressure from beef with 50.
Look at the tracks produced from when Jay and Nas were beefing and then compare the trakcs they've made together/ the music they've made since.
I'm not saying something where rappers are taking it to the streets but competition forces people to step up in terms of music
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Conscious hip hop can be made by any rapper. I personally feel that people like Wayne not addressing issues true to the hometown (like how many times has Wayne properly covered Katrina affecting New Orleans?) is bad for hip hop though. I don't think there's a problem with artists making club songs but to have albums/songs consistently about money/girls/how good you are = a lack of originality.
One of the things that is making hip hop BORING to me is that there's no competition. How can people like Wayne go around calling themselves the GOAT yet nobody challenge him. Would Wayne really put out Rebirth if Jay Z had just dropped a Takeover towards him? Rick Ross released an album that didn't overly bend towards the mainstream cause he was under pressure from beef with 50.
Look at the tracks produced from when Jay and Nas were beefing and then compare the trakcs they've made together/ the music they've made since.
I'm not saying something where rappers are taking it to the streets but competition forces people to step up in terms of music
Definitely, listen to Nas explain how competitive the King of New York title on "Last Real Nigga Alive" off his God's Son album. Shit was really competitive back in the day. From the 80's to 2003 when Nas dropped this album, hip-hop still had a pulse, because nicca's like Nas were willing to challenge others for the top spot.
But like you said, once Wayne came out and start claiming himself to be the best rapper in the world, and he became the #1 artist nobody really challenged him on that level. That is why hip-hop is dead right now.
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Y'all easies the dumbest mutherfuckas I've read talking about hip-hop is dead because of lil wayne.
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Im not saying hip hops dead but I'm saying its boring atm. How many albums honestly can you say you thought were 5/5s from the last two years? All I'm saying is that part of hip hop (battling) needs to be resurrected to keep people on their toes.
People say check this rapper or that rapper but a lot of them are rebores or have nothing original about them. I'm not saying that nobody can do gangster rap but at least come with a story of your own and something about your hometown. Everyone's lyrics feel like they could be said by the next man.
But let's also point out just cause someone raps over something does that make it hip hop? Or is it down to beat speed or sound? Cause if hip hop is something as broad as people rapping then it will never die but if it's a certain sound like Soul was or Jazz then it could die/lose popularity.
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Y'all easies the dumbest mutherfuckas I've read talking about hip-hop is dead because of lil wayne.
I don't think anyone said that hip-hop was dead because of Lil Wayne. We actually weren't blaming Lil Wayne (although he does deserve a lot of blame, but that's another subject) we were blaming other rappers, even rappers I love like Nas or Eminem for not calling him out and challenging him for saying he's #1.
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Real pioneers in hip hop made schoolbook nursery rhymes for people to dance to at night clubs. There weren;t any Immortal Technique or Dead Prez acts at the the beginning of hip hop. FACT. People who say hip hop is dead are full of shit. Hip hop is going back to it's roots more and more every day, deal with it nerds.
This is as true as it gets. Nice point.
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Stop it Lyin' Brian, you don't listen to any southern rap you have no idea what they are saying, nor could you understand an insightful line even if you heard it loud and clear because you need it to be spelled out in language you can understand, which automatically disqualifies most black people.
Real pioneers in hip hop made schoolbook nursery rhymes for people to dance to at night clubs. There weren;t any Immortal Technique or Dead Prez acts at the the beginning of hip hop. FACT. People who say hip hop is dead are full of shit. Hip hop is going back to it's roots more and more every day, deal with it nerds.
The term "conscious" is a double edged sword as it gives more credit due to rappers who spend almost all of their subject matter dealing with social issues (often incorrectly), and dismissing other rappers who don't as "everybody else", whereas those "other rappers" might be saying some real shit, just with more profanity and over a crunk beat. UGK or Goodie Mob for instance, detail life so incredibly and relate to the average man that if you feel what they are saying, they are most definitely "conscious" of real life in their rhymes.
you are not 100% right with Real pioneers in hip hop made schoolbook nursery rhymes for people to dance to at night clubs. because Real pioneers in hip hop made music for house parties not clubs . also there was conscious rappers like grand master flash & f5. then rakim showed up & changed hip hop & improve it & from then on you had be to lyrical as rakim to be good..hip hop was never about clubs in early & mid 90's at all. it was being lyrical & being conscious. that is why the golden era op hip hop was from 1989 to 1996
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Sure tell that to M.C. Hammer.
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Stop it Lyin' Brian, you don't listen to any southern rap you have no idea what they are saying, nor could you understand an insightful line even if you heard it loud and clear because you need it to be spelled out in language you can understand, which automatically disqualifies most black people.
Real pioneers in hip hop made schoolbook nursery rhymes for people to dance to at night clubs. There weren;t any Immortal Technique or Dead Prez acts at the the beginning of hip hop. FACT. People who say hip hop is dead are full of shit. Hip hop is going back to it's roots more and more every day, deal with it nerds.
The term "conscious" is a double edged sword as it gives more credit due to rappers who spend almost all of their subject matter dealing with social issues (often incorrectly), and dismissing other rappers who don't as "everybody else", whereas those "other rappers" might be saying some real shit, just with more profanity and over a crunk beat. UGK or Goodie Mob for instance, detail life so incredibly and relate to the average man that if you feel what they are saying, they are most definitely "conscious" of real life in their rhymes.
you are not 100% right with Real pioneers in hip hop made schoolbook nursery rhymes for people to dance to at night clubs. because Real pioneers in hip hop made music for house parties not clubs . also there was conscious rappers like grand master flash & f5. then rakim showed up & changed hip hop & improve it & from then on you had be to lyrical as rakim to be good..hip hop was never about clubs in early & mid 90's at all. it was being lyrical & being conscious. that is why the golden era op hip hop was from 1989 to 1996
Hip hop started in the seventies. And it was not amazingly lyrical or socially conscious.
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Hip hop started in the seventies. And it was not amazingly lyrical or socially conscious.
Some of the lyrics weren't that consious (although some were "The Message" style lyrics). Either way, the culture of hip-hop itself was conscious back in the day.