West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Halu Sination on July 07, 2010, 05:51:35 AM
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edit: LeBron is there too now. Wow.
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If this is true and James doesn't join them, he's done in terms of winning a ring for the rest of his prime
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Bosh and Wade together will be interesting to follow. I know I'll be watching a lot more Heat games this season. Like Halu Sination said, they need to fill roster spots. It will take more than a year to find the right role players for the team to reach it's full potential.
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It's funny that even thought this is the news, it's still "What is LeBron going to do?".
If this is true and James doesn't join them, he's done in terms of winning a ring for the rest of his prime
True that.
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Clearly i can see Lebron signing with these guys to contend for a championship, along with bosh taking less money for the simple fact is that they dont have any STATE INCOME TAX in Florida which means "" Mo money $$ mo money $$ mo money $$ ""
Wade and 'Bron are friends that frequently hang out together. Wades even been qouted saying he plays with 'bron more than some of his teammates. When hes up in cleveland for an NBA game he even stays at 'brons ohio mansion. They are both very unselfish players, wade willed that team to the playoffs this year with CBA players lol and got a few triple doubles.
Look for NBA role players/veterans taking a pay cut to get a name for themselves on the biggest stage in the NBA - the playoffs- in order to compete for a championship ring with these 3 powerhouse players.
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fuck miami i still hate d-wade they aint gon win shit everyone forgettin bout orlando and boston already
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I knew Bosh was gonna fuck us. FUCK. Toronto has such bad luck. I got too excited when I saw the Bosh to Cleveland rumors for Hickson, Varejao, West/Parker & a Draft Pick. That would have been GREAT value. I love Varejao and Hickson has potential. West/Parker would be nice role players. Now he's going to Miami and not only may we not get ANYTHING (sign with Mia) but even if it is sign and trade, Miami has SHIT all to offer us. I don't fucking want Beasley. This fucking sucks lol.
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I knew Bosh was gonna fuck us. FUCK. Toronto has such bad luck. I got too excited when I saw the Bosh to Cleveland rumors for Hickson, Varejao, West/Parker & a Draft Pick. That would have been GREAT value. I love Varejao and Hickson has potential. West/Parker would be nice role players. Now he's going to Miami and not only may we not get ANYTHING (sign with Mia) but even if it is sign and trade, Miami has SHIT all to offer us. I don't fucking want Beasley. This fucking sucks lol.
lol. I was watching ESPN and Bosh said he simply didn't want to play for Cleveland. It does suck. Like you said though, a sign and trade in this case is useless, you might as well just let Bosh walk.
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what a waste
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Clearly i can see Lebron signing with these guys to contend for a championship, along with bosh taking less money for the simple fact is that they dont have any STATE INCOME TAX in Florida which means "" Mo money $$ mo money $$ mo money $$ ""
People frequently talk about the no income tax in Florida/Texas, but it never seems to give any teams in those states an advantage.
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Just heard LeBron flew down there tonight; looks like we got a new big 3 in town.
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Clearly i can see Lebron signing with these guys to contend for a championship, along with bosh taking less money for the simple fact is that they dont have any STATE INCOME TAX in Florida which means "" Mo money $$ mo money $$ mo money $$ ""
People frequently talk about the no income tax in Florida/Texas, but it never seems to give any teams in those states an advantage.
The state's not going to garnish bosh, wade, or lebron's checks.. plus im assuming those guys are going to make up whatever they are losing on a max contract out on endorsement deals.
People are saying this is going to hurt lebron james legacy, but its a fact success cures all.. look at kobe , the media grilled his ass for raping the white girl in colorado.. but now they're in love all over again with him.
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Clearly i can see Lebron signing with these guys to contend for a championship, along with bosh taking less money for the simple fact is that they dont have any STATE INCOME TAX in Florida which means "" Mo money $$ mo money $$ mo money $$ ""
People frequently talk about the no income tax in Florida/Texas, but it never seems to give any teams in those states an advantage.
The state's not going to garnish bosh, wade, or lebron's checks.. plus im assuming those guys are going to make up whatever they are losing on a max contract out on endorsement deals.
People are saying this is going to hurt lebron james legacy, but its a fact success cures all.. look at kobe , the media grilled his ass for raping the white girl in colorado.. but now they're in love all over again with him.
lol yes it does, MJ and Kobe didnt need to join with 2 other legit superstars to compete for a ring.
man this is hilarious what happened to all the lebron bandwagoners that said the cavs were gonna take it last year and the year before? lol at saying now the team isnt talented what happened to all the talk the cavs were better than the lakers?
honestly most lebron fans are damn pathetic. i knew that cavs team wasnt gonna make it out, ive said this before the season even began, honestly i thought it was gonna be magic or celtics (well that changed during mid season but they damn surprised everyone) magic had legit depth to go to the finals this year.
i think it would of been alot better if jamison came off as the 6th man because him and lebron cant co-exists on the offensive end together, but i didnt expect much for a mid season trade anyways. u can say cavs had the depth to go to the finals but i knew if lebron was that go to guy for the last shot or to bring the tempo on the wire he just wouldnt come through, but if that team had carmelo thats a different story, before kobe broke the all time nba record with most game winning buzzer beaters this year with 6, melo held it with 5.
lebron just isnt clutch enough, never saw it in him.
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^^ if you put kobe on the cav's they wouldnt get to the finals.. teams would load up on him.. and who's kobe gonna kick it out to? an inconsistent moe williams? Varajeo who gets all his points off layups? do u remember kobe bryant looking dejected when he used to get shut down by the suns in the playoffs? Same result would happen in Cleveland IF kobe put on that cav jersey.
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^^ if you put kobe on the cav's they wouldnt get to the finals.. teams would load up on him.. and who's kobe gonna kick it out to? an inconsistent moe williams? Varajeo who gets all his points off layups? do u remember kobe bryant looking dejected when he used to get shut down by the suns in the playoffs? Same result would happen in Cleveland IF kobe put on that cav jersey.
lets do the 09 cavs as the 10 cavs r a much better team
smush parker< mo williams
sasha< delonte west
Kwame brown<big z
luke walton< anybody on that fucking team.
i mean your ridiculous
kobe and williams would fit perfectly as williams basically plays the 2 guard as lebron runs the offense, like i said before he would be perfect fit on the lakers.
lol lebron isnt clutch, he cant take the last shots he cant make 5 in a row to win a game in the playoffs down the wire, he proved that to us for basically 3 years now.
kobe on that team would be fucking he actually has skills rather than just use his athleticism to drive in to the hole and run pick and rolls.
homie your view of things r so one sided.
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miami waiting for lebron is gonna be the death of them, imagine he doesnt sign with miami. guys a signing by the minute.
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wow.
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I'm glad you changed the title topic. I was debating whether or not to create a new thread lol.
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six-peat.
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lol wow. This should be fun. Seeing if anyone out there can compete with this team.
Youre talkin one of the best bigmen in the game....Wade, one of the top 3 or 4 players in the game...and LeBron, probably the best player in the game.
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fuck miami i still hate d-wade they aint gon win shit everyone forgettin bout orlando and boston already
orlando ain't even the best team in their state
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fuck miami i still hate d-wade they aint gon win shit everyone forgettin bout orlando and boston already
orlando ain't even the best team in their state
It sucks for the Lakers to win a title, and the following year all anyone talks about is, "can anyone beat the Heat?!" lol
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this is going to be a FAIL and then when its time ill be the one sayin i told you so
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this is going to be a FAIL and then when its time ill be the one sayin i told you so
I understand your frustration... but be serious. If washed up Garnett, slow ass old wheelchair Pierce and broken ankles Allen can torch the Lakers by 38 or so points, you think LeBron, Bosh and Wade in their respective primes can't?
Be serious.
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this is going to be a FAIL and then when its time ill be the one sayin i told you so
I understand your frustration... but be serious. If washed up Garnett, slow ass old wheelchair Pierce and broken ankles Allen can torch the Lakers by 38 or so points, you think LeBron, Bosh and Wade in their respective primes can't?
Be serious.
ima watch the 1st round of the playoffs and watch them dominate the 8th seed just for teh lulz
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this is going to be a FAIL and then when its time ill be the one sayin i told you so
I understand your frustration... but be serious. If washed up Garnett, slow ass old wheelchair Pierce and broken ankles Allen can torch the Lakers by 38 or so points, you think LeBron, Bosh and Wade in their respective primes can't?
Be serious.
ima watch the 1st round of the playoffs and watch them dominate the 8th seed just for teh lulz
2011 Heat vs. 8th seed is like Team USA vs. Angola
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im still not scared of this team till i see the rest of the roster period.
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im still not scared of this team till i see the rest of the roster period.
Boston only had rookie ass Rondo, spot-up shooter House, charge-taking Posey and county jail player Perkins. You think the Heat can't come up with role players like those, despite having the best "Big 3" in the history of basketball?
Even without House and Posey, Celtics took you to 7 games, all while the big 3 was semi-retired. Man, the Heat can not be fucked with for years to come. They will be much better than the Celtics of 08, which is easily enough to beat the 2011 Lakers (no diss).
Me, knowing the Mavs will never win shit, am just glad to witness the SHOWTIME HEAT ... ;D
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this is going to be a FAIL and then when its time ill be the one sayin i told you so
I understand your frustration... but be serious. If washed up Garnett, slow ass old wheelchair Pierce and broken ankles Allen can torch the Lakers by 38 or so points, you think LeBron, Bosh and Wade in their respective primes can't?
Be serious.
ima watch the 1st round of the playoffs and watch them dominate the 8th seed just for teh lulz
2011 Heat vs. 8th seed is like Team USA vs. Angola
well who ever the 8th seed is, is gon have their spirits and hopes broken for their rest of their careers
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this is going to be a FAIL and then when its time ill be the one sayin i told you so
lol sure thing
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im still not scared of this team till i see the rest of the roster period.
I wouldnt be "scared" so much either. But clearly, they will be considered the team to beat. If it was reversed and the Lakers ended up with Kobe, Wade, and Bosh...could you imagine how Laker fans would be saying anyone out there would be a complete idiot (or..."hater" lol) to not consider them the top team in the league. No matter WHO the role players were.
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im still not scared of this team till i see the rest of the roster period.
I wouldnt be "scared" so much either. But clearly, they will be considered the team to beat. If it was reversed and the Lakers ended up with Kobe, Wade, and Bosh...could you imagine how Laker fans would be saying anyone out there would be a complete idiot (or..."hater" lol) to not consider them the top team in the league. No matter WHO the role players were.
but thats kobe :laugh:
man but this gonna be one exciting fucking bball season, damn cp3, bynum, melo lakers big 3 of the future.
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im still not scared of this team till i see the rest of the roster period.
I wouldnt be "scared" so much either. But clearly, they will be considered the team to beat. If it was reversed and the Lakers ended up with Kobe, Wade, and Bosh...could you imagine how Laker fans would be saying anyone out there would be a complete idiot (or..."hater" lol) to not consider them the top team in the league. No matter WHO the role players were.
but thats kobe :laugh:
man but this gonna be one exciting fucking bball season, damn cp3, bynum, melo lakers big 3 of the future.
exactly!!! So if the second best perimeter player in the league teamed up with Bosh and Wade would be considered favorites...wouldnt Bron, Wade, and Bosh be the favorites for sure? 8)
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im still not scared of this team till i see the rest of the roster period.
I wouldnt be "scared" so much either. But clearly, they will be considered the team to beat. If it was reversed and the Lakers ended up with Kobe, Wade, and Bosh...could you imagine how Laker fans would be saying anyone out there would be a complete idiot (or..."hater" lol) to not consider them the top team in the league. No matter WHO the role players were.
but thats kobe :laugh:
man but this gonna be one exciting fucking bball season, damn cp3, bynum, melo lakers big 3 of the future.
exactly!!! So if the second best perimeter player in the league teamed up with Bosh and Wade would be considered favorites...wouldnt Bron, Wade, and Bosh be the favorites for sure? 8)
2nd best? kobes 1st, i was juz jk of course their gonna be considered favorites, i just hate that we have to wait months for this to happen
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Miami got stacked, but there is lots of playing to do. One thing this free agency is doing is making the West weaker. The Suns wouldn't challenge the Lakers this year, the Spurs might not as Tony might goes to NY, and only Oklahoma City is looking like a true threat to LA, and maybe Denver IF Carmelo isn't a Knick by the end of the summer. Still, I truly feel bad for Cleveland fans, as that's a city that hasn't won a title since 1964, which my father was 10. Truly a messed up situation, and it could even hurt the economy of the city. This will have a domino effect in the east though. Once Shaq went west in 1996, the west responded by getting stronger as the Bulls continued to dominate the west. I see the same thing, only in reverse, the east teams will get stacked up, and the Lakers will continue to dominate the west.
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Can I be the first to call a 70 win season?
If hundreds of millions have already called it before me, I understand.
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Let's first see what kind of supporting cast they'll get.
But this is insane.
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I can't wait for the Heat to play the Cavaliers in Cleveland. ;D
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and the heat have reportedly sent michael beasley to minnesota for a 2nd round draft pick in 2011
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Can I be the first to call a 70 win season?
If hundreds of millions have already called it before me, I understand.
i thought about it
but then you gotta realize that teams rest players, they gotta play the Magic and Celtics 4x and injuries do happen. Bosh misses 10 games a year on average. and Wade misses plenty of time....granted he brings it when he is healthy
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Both Wade and James need the ball in their hands to be effective ... I know your bandwagon fans are excited but let's see how this works ..
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Can I be the first to call a 70 win season?
If hundreds of millions have already called it before me, I understand.
There is a thing called team chemistry , there is no way this "team' wins 70 games , especially the 1st year ...
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Both Wade and James need the ball in their hands to be effective ... I know your bandwagon fans are excited but let's see how this works ..
Don't act like we're typical bandwagon fans & you're not the oh-so obvious Laker groupie, doubter.
I'm a 76ers fan; given Evan Turner doesn't GO OFF & win MVP, we'd be lucky to finish 8th & play this monster squad first round.
I haven't seen one Laker fan admit this team is deadly, why? Someone please up the Cam'Ron pic. ;D
Can I be the first to call a 70 win season?
If hundreds of millions have already called it before me, I understand.
i thought about it
but then you gotta realize that teams rest players, they gotta play the Magic and Celtics 4x and injuries do happen. Bosh misses 10 games a year on average. and Wade misses plenty of time....granted he brings it when he is healthy
Plus, early on they might take a few L's, still getting use to each other & stuff. But anything less than 60 wins would be brow-raising.
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Both Wade and James need the ball in their hands to be effective ... I know your bandwagon fans are excited but let's see how this works ..
Don't act like we're typical bandwagon fans & you're not the oh-so obvious Laker groupie, doubter.
I'm a 76ers fan; given Evan Turner doesn't GO OFF & win MVP, we'd be lucky to finish 8th & play this monster squad first round.
I haven't seen one Laker fan admit this team is deadly, why? Someone please up the Cam'Ron pic. ;D
Can I be the first to call a 70 win season?
If hundreds of millions have already called it before me, I understand.
i thought about it
but then you gotta realize that teams rest players, they gotta play the Magic and Celtics 4x and injuries do happen. Bosh misses 10 games a year on average. and Wade misses plenty of time....granted he brings it when he is healthy
Plus, early on they might take a few L's, still getting use to each other & stuff. But anything less than 60 wins would be brow-raising.
what are you talking about? ive said this team is deadly, but not to the lakers. i dont see it. no front court to match up no matter who they get in the free agency. nor a bench that would help them really give a boost or even sustain a lead against ours.
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Both Wade and James need the ball in their hands to be effective ... I know your bandwagon fans are excited but let's see how this works ..
Don't act like we're typical bandwagon fans & you're not the oh-so obvious Laker groupie, doubter.
I'm a 76ers fan; given Evan Turner doesn't GO OFF & win MVP, we'd be lucky to finish 8th & play this monster squad first round.
I haven't seen one Laker fan admit this team is deadly, why? Someone please up the Cam'Ron pic. ;D
Can I be the first to call a 70 win season?
If hundreds of millions have already called it before me, I understand.
i thought about it
but then you gotta realize that teams rest players, they gotta play the Magic and Celtics 4x and injuries do happen. Bosh misses 10 games a year on average. and Wade misses plenty of time....granted he brings it when he is healthy
Plus, early on they might take a few L's, still getting use to each other & stuff. But anything less than 60 wins would be brow-raising.
It's about match ups, and right now Boston, Orlando and LA have the better front courts. Miami could take out Orlando in my opinion, but until I see more players added I can't say Miami is that deadly. I mean, who's going to start? Are they bringing back throwback players to fill the roster placed.
PG: Tim Hardaway
SG: Dwayne Wade
SF: LeBron James
PF: Chris Bosh
C: Alonzo Mourning
I mean seriously, who else do they have under contract. Rumor Mike Miller, well his not starting, but he'd be a great player off the bench who's lights out shooting, and that could make them very dangerous. But right now, it's too early to tell.
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PG: Dwayne Wade
SG: Mike Miller
SF: LeBron James
PF: Chris Bosh
C: TBA
that's not even debateable lol.
You act like Bynum, Mr. Healthy will even be there in the Finals lol.
You act like the entire game is the front court & you act like LeBron & Wade don't crash the boards like big men.
LeBron went up for rebounds against big men on the Cavs more than anybody else lol.
Don't front; the only "match-up" problem for the Heat will be the bench game & that remains to be seen.
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Cham ; just ask non Lakers fans on this forum if they consider me as a Lakers groupie , you will see the answer ...
I never said this team couldn't be deadly , I just have my doubts about Wade and James playing together (especially during the playoffs as the game is slowed down) as their game is pretty similar and I would have the exact same doubts for any combination of dominant perimeter players.
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Cham ; just ask non Lakers fans on this forum if they consider me as a Lakers groupie , you will see the answer ...
I never said this team couldn't be deadly , I just have my doubts about Wade and James playing together (especially during the playoffs as the game is slowed down) as their game is pretty similar and I would have the exact same doubts for any combination of dominant perimeter players.
Regardless, surprise, surprise another Laker fan "has doubts" when everybody else sees the clear cut amazingness. Sure it might not "work out", but I'd say there is like a 2% chance of that happening. They all played on Team USA together, I'm sure they know they can play together.
Don't act like they're ballhogs; just look at their teams before coming together. LeBron still averaged 7 assists, but was forced to score 30 a game, same basically goes for Wade, but less assists.
It's basically like this, you can't guard them at the same time & shut both of them down; if you can shut either down.
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With the C's picking up Jermaine O'neal I still think the C's are the team to beat in the east.
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Both Wade and James need the ball in their hands to be effective ... I know your bandwagon fans are excited but let's see how this works ..
1-the Miami Heat, in games that matter, will NEVER have to worry about resting Lebron and Wade for 8 minutes a game because the other one will still be in the game when one is resting
2-they both are elite defensive players
3-isn't this the same excuse people gave about the Celtics big 3?
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i dont know im done with this, i just cant wait till the next season its gonna be the biggest.
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Both Wade and James need the ball in their hands to be effective ... I know your bandwagon fans are excited but let's see how this works ..
1-the Miami Heat, in games that matter, will NEVER have to worry about resting Lebron and Wade for 8 minutes a game because the other one will still be in the game when one is resting
2-they both are elite defensive players
3-isn't this the same excuse people gave about the Celtics big 3?
How do you feel about all of this? Still think Celtics can be a favorite to come out of the East? I dont know about signing Jermaine O'Neal, that was pretty dumb, but it seems like they aren't going to lie down just yet.
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Both Wade and James need the ball in their hands to be effective ... I know your bandwagon fans are excited but let's see how this works ..
1-the Miami Heat, in games that matter, will NEVER have to worry about resting Lebron and Wade for 8 minutes a game because the other one will still be in the game when one is resting
2-they both are elite defensive players
3-isn't this the same excuse people gave about the Celtics big 3?
How do you feel about all of this? Still think Celtics can be a favorite to come out of the East? I dont know about signing Jermaine O'Neal, that was pretty dumb, but it seems like they aren't going to lie down just yet.
I know you're asking Hack, but it seems like youth in Miami will shit on the elderly C's.
Celtics will finish top 3 in the East without a doubt, even with some injury along the way; Orlando might finish ahead of them & I will give a 25% chance to the Bulls & Hawks to finish above the Celtics, but that's unlikely.
If they got a year left, they could easily see a Eastern Conference Final; but I can't see anyone in the league hanging with Miami, let alone the aging big three.
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Both Wade and James need the ball in their hands to be effective ... I know your bandwagon fans are excited but let's see how this works ..
1-the Miami Heat, in games that matter, will NEVER have to worry about resting Lebron and Wade for 8 minutes a game because the other one will still be in the game when one is resting
2-they both are elite defensive players
3-isn't this the same excuse people gave about the Celtics big 3?
How do you feel about all of this? Still think Celtics can be a favorite to come out of the East? I dont know about signing Jermaine O'Neal, that was pretty dumb, but it seems like they aren't going to lie down just yet.
I know you're asking Hack, but it seems like youth in Miami will shit on the elderly C's.
Celtics will finish top 3 in the East without a doubt, even with some injury along the way; Orlando might finish ahead of them & I will give a 25% chance to the Bulls & Hawks to finish above the Celtics, but that's unlikely.
If they got a year left, they could easily see a Eastern Conference Final; but I can't see anyone in the league hanging with Miami, let alone the aging big three.
Its not just the big 3 though. They got Rondo and a LOT of depth coming off the bench. But like I said, Jermaine O'Neal certainly aint gonna help the fuckin cause lol.
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i hate to say it...but the east was decided tonight.
lol i hope i'm wrong but i got a feeling out window closed on my boys with Kendrick Perkins injury in game 6.
now...if Rondo somehow becomes a .850% free throw shooter and improves his jump shot then maybe things will look different cuz dude is the truth but all we can get is Jermaine O'neal and resign PP and Ray Ray?
oh well the NFL season is really my top priority...i'll get a better feel for Boston's full roster in Octobah
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^The Heat just signed Mike Miller, he's a beautiful fit for any team & he really fits as Miami's three-point threat; a poor man's Ray Allen, but can still get the job done.
Believe it or not, I'm sure there are some good basketball players in Free Agency who will be willing to take the minimum contract just to play with these three & help make it a done deal for next June.
It wasn't even rumored, I'm just thinking, but you got AI & T-Mac who are ringless. AI, who recently said he's let his fans down & can be that guy to come off the bench for 15-20 minutes & contribute to wins; the Heat can give them both the veterans minimum & go over the cap to fill the roster & that's two solid ass players coming off your bench. Could potentially hurt chemistry, but they know what they are getting into before they would sign the deal; they know whose running the show.
My point being, it's not a given that the rest of the Miami Heat team will be complete, worthless, "They might as well have offered me a contract" ass.
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^The Heat just signed Mike Miller, he's a beautiful fit for any team & he really fits as Miami's three-point threat; a poor man's Ray Allen, but can still get the job done.
Believe it or not, I'm sure there are some good basketball players in Free Agency who will be willing to take the minimum contract just to play with these three & help make it a done deal for next June.
It wasn't even rumored, I'm just thinking, but you got AI & T-Mac who are ringless. AI, who recently said he's let his fans down & can be that guy to come off the bench for 15-20 minutes & contribute to wins; the Heat can give them both the veterans minimum & go over the cap to fill the roster & that's two solid ass players coming off your bench. Could potentially hurt chemistry, but they know what they are getting into before they would sign the deal; they know whose running the show.
My point being, it's not a given that the rest of the Miami Heat team will be complete, worthless, "They might as well have offered me a contract" ass.
I really hope Heat isn't stupid enough to sign AI and T-Mac, for their own sake. I love AI but dude has caused problems at literally three of the last teams he's played on. T-Mac, I don't think would be AS bad as he has to be humbled by now, but Heat have a lot of roster spots to fill out, and three of their four current players are already wing players, so they really would be better off looking elsewhere.
The funny thing, I also heard Heat is interested in Derek Fisher. Fisher leaving Lakers for Heat would probably get him about a quarter of the hate LeBron is getting right now, which is still quite remarkable considering Fish is worlds apart compared to the rest of that team lol.
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^The Heat just signed Mike Miller, he's a beautiful fit for any team & he really fits as Miami's three-point threat; a poor man's Ray Allen, but can still get the job done.
Believe it or not, I'm sure there are some good basketball players in Free Agency who will be willing to take the minimum contract just to play with these three & help make it a done deal for next June.
It wasn't even rumored, I'm just thinking, but you got AI & T-Mac who are ringless. AI, who recently said he's let his fans down & can be that guy to come off the bench for 15-20 minutes & contribute to wins; the Heat can give them both the veterans minimum & go over the cap to fill the roster & that's two solid ass players coming off your bench. Could potentially hurt chemistry, but they know what they are getting into before they would sign the deal; they know whose running the show.
My point being, it's not a given that the rest of the Miami Heat team will be complete, worthless, "They might as well have offered me a contract" ass.
I really hope Heat isn't stupid enough to sign AI and T-Mac, for their own sake. I love AI but dude has caused problems at literally three of the last teams he's played on. T-Mac, I don't think would be AS bad as he has to be humbled by now, but Heat have a lot of roster spots to fill out, and three of their four current players are already wing players, so they really would be better off looking elsewhere.
The funny thing, I also heard Heat is interested in Derek Fisher. Fisher leaving Lakers for Heat would probably get him about a quarter of the hate LeBron is getting right now, which is still quite remarkable considering Fish is worlds apart compared to the rest of that team lol.
fish isnt leaving. kobe wouldnt allow it.
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^The Heat just signed Mike Miller, he's a beautiful fit for any team & he really fits as Miami's three-point threat; a poor man's Ray Allen, but can still get the job done.
do you remember Damon Jones (whos been with like 8 teams)? Jason Kapono? those guys LED THE NBA in 3 point shooting when the heat had Shaq and D wade.. Mike Miller is better than both of those guys, add it up. Wide open looks = $$$
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yeah, mike miller was a brilliant signing on their part, he's as good a team player as you can ask for. getting rid of beasley was probably even more brillaint tho, lol
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I can't figure out who talks about the Lakers more...
the fans or the non fans...
shut the fuck up, they got nothing to do with the Eastern Conference
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I can't figure out who talks about the Lakers more...
the fans or the non fans...
shut the fuck up, they got nothing to do with the Eastern Conference
well they will have a lot to do with being swept in the finals for the next years tho
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Sick! Gonna be a very interesting season next year. I am kinda surprised that Lebron went to Miami though, basically means he'll never be mentioned as a focal point when/if they win a ring.
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(http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2505/lebromb.gif)
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I can't figure out who talks about the Lakers more...
the fans or the non fans...
shut the fuck up, they got nothing to do with the Eastern Conference
well they will have a lot to do with being swept in the finals for the next years tho
Shouldn't you at least let them fill out their starting line-up and get some depth first? And dude, arent you a Mavs fan to begin with? Lol I know youre probably sick of Lakers running shit, but it seems like youre getting a bit too swept up by the moment.
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I can't figure out who talks about the Lakers more...
the fans or the non fans...
shut the fuck up, they got nothing to do with the Eastern Conference
well they will have a lot to do with being swept in the finals for the next years tho
Shouldn't you at least let them fill out their starting line-up and get some depth first? And dude, arent you a Mavs fan to begin with? Lol I know youre probably sick of Lakers running shit, but it seems like youre getting a bit too swept up by the moment.
The Mavs are no contenders. Why the hell would I cry if the Heat six-peat? The Mavs have no shot at winning titles anyways.
Sick! Gonna be a very interesting season next year. I am kinda surprised that Lebron went to Miami though, basically means he'll never be mentioned as a focal point when/if they win a ring.
Could you guys stop acting as if Wade was better than LeBron? He clearly isn't. He's 3 years older also. Stop acting as if LeBron was Wade's sidekick or something.
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the heat just pulled off a great move by signing mike miller, everyone wants to compare the celtics big three with the heat big three but the major difference is the heat big three are all in their prime. why carry the load by yourself when you can get help. assuming the heat get add some nice additions, it looks like the heat can make some real history. maybe they sign shaq, mcgrady, iverson, scola we'll see how this plays out. i hear cp3 is coming to join them next season whem his contract is up.
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I can't figure out who talks about the Lakers more...
the fans or the non fans...
shut the fuck up, they got nothing to do with the Eastern Conference
I think most of the Laker talk has to do with the fact that there are so many Laker fans here. If there wasnt, there would be no need to discuss them really. But a lot of Laker fans (not all of u, so dont get all upset) are hella immature and like to talk a lot of shit and make a lot of excuses. So its just kind of funny is all. Im sure u understand.
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Betting odds of the Heat winning the title are 7/4 lmao
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Betting odds of the Heat winning the title are 7/4 lmao
LOL.
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Sick! Gonna be a very interesting season next year. I am kinda surprised that Lebron went to Miami though, basically means he'll never be mentioned as a focal point when/if they win a ring.
Could you guys stop acting as if Wade was better than LeBron? He clearly isn't. He's 3 years older also. Stop acting as if LeBron was Wade's sidekick or something.
I didn't say Wade is better (altough thta's debatable). Wade is Miami's focal point, just like Pierce was in 08 despite Garnet beasting.
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Well Wade is clearly better than the Choosen one in one category : clutchness ... overall Lebron is slighty better but I'd personally take Wade over LBJ because he's unlikely to choke in the playoffs
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Well Wade is clearly better than the Choosen one in one category : clutchness ... overall Lebron is slighty better but I'd personally take Wade over LBJ because he's unlikely to choke in the playoffs
Wade never went deep into the playoffs, except in 2006, when the Heat were fixed to win the title by the league and Wade only had to go to the hole and miss a lay-up to get 2 FTs. Any All-Star SG could have done that.
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Well Wade is clearly better than the Choosen one in one category : clutchness ... overall Lebron is slighty better but I'd personally take Wade over LBJ because he's unlikely to choke in the playoffs
There is no such thing as "clutchness".
Explain A-Rod in the playoffs or how in '06 against the Pistons in the ECF he scored 30 of the Cavs 32. Anybody can hit those shots, it's just you usually give it to your best player, so naturally after hundreds of attempts they'll fall.
Take a sample of someone shooting in the clutch & I would bet they'll be shooting around 40%, but then look at how they shoot during the rest of the game & it'll be about 40%. It's not "stepping up", it's just doing what you've always done, the only difference is that the game is on the line.
In the second quarter of some random game Kobe might go off & nail four shots in a row on consecutive possessions and nobody would say shit besides maybe "That's Kobe doing Kobe.". But when he does in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter, it's like some natural sixth sense takes over & he's hitting these shots out of "clutchness". :D
Some magical thing God only blesses a few of us with.
It was a term invented to create heroes, but it's not real.
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Seriouls Cham wtf are you talking about. Of course there's a thing called being a clutch or a choke player. You're meaning to tell me that it's the same thing if you hit a 3 point shot in the first minute or in the last second ? Think a lil about the pressure... I mean you've played sports in your life I presume ? Basketball, football, basball, tenis... anything at all... even pool table. You know there's a huge difference in hitting that first pocket or the last black ball. If not, you're an exception and a clutch player actually.
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Well Wade is clearly better than the Choosen one in one category : clutchness ... overall Lebron is slighty better but I'd personally take Wade over LBJ because he's unlikely to choke in the playoffs
There is no such thing as "clutchness".
Explain A-Rod in the playoffs or how in '06 against the Pistons in the ECF he scored 30 of the Cavs 32. Anybody can hit those shots, it's just you usually give it to your best player, so naturally after hundreds of attempts they'll fall.
Take a sample of someone shooting in the clutch & I would bet they'll be shooting around 40%, but then look at how they shoot during the rest of the game & it'll be about 40%. It's not "stepping up", it's just doing what you've always done, the only difference is that the game is on the line.
In the second quarter of some random game Kobe might go off & nail four shots in a row on consecutive possessions and nobody would say shit besides maybe "That's Kobe doing Kobe.". But when he does in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter, it's like some natural sixth sense takes over & he's hitting these shots out of "clutchness". :D
Some magical thing God only blesses a few of us with.
It was a term invented to create heroes, but it's not real.
It's not real? So the fact that Kobe and MJ have hit numerous game winners and rallied to keep their teams in the game in the fourth quarter on numerous occasions is just a coincidence? Some people can handle the pressure and others crumble under it. Just cause A-Rod sucked in the playoffs before doesn't mean he was doomed forever, but that also means that he couldn't handle the pressure early on.
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Superstars carry team in the "clutch" all the time. Take a look at the best 5 players in the league and then take a look at the best 5 "clutch" performers year in and year out. Little things change.
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Well Wade is clearly better than the Choosen one in one category : clutchness ... overall Lebron is slighty better but I'd personally take Wade over LBJ because he's unlikely to choke in the playoffs
There is no such thing as "clutchness".
Explain A-Rod in the playoffs or how in '06 against the Pistons in the ECF he scored 30 of the Cavs 32. Anybody can hit those shots, it's just you usually give it to your best player, so naturally after hundreds of attempts they'll fall.
Take a sample of someone shooting in the clutch & I would bet they'll be shooting around 40%, but then look at how they shoot during the rest of the game & it'll be about 40%. It's not "stepping up", it's just doing what you've always done, the only difference is that the game is on the line.
In the second quarter of some random game Kobe might go off & nail four shots in a row on consecutive possessions and nobody would say shit besides maybe "That's Kobe doing Kobe.". But when he does in the last two minutes of the fourth quarter, it's like some natural sixth sense takes over & he's hitting these shots out of "clutchness". :D
Some magical thing God only blesses a few of us with.
It was a term invented to create heroes, but it's not real.
It's not real? So the fact that Kobe and MJ have hit numerous game winners and rallied to keep their teams in the game in the fourth quarter on numerous occasions is just a coincidence? Some people can handle the pressure and others crumble under it. Just cause A-Rod sucked in the playoffs before doesn't mean he was doomed forever, but that also means that he couldn't handle the pressure early on.
Yeah, but who else takes the shots besides MJ & Kobe? If the Celtics let Brian Scalabrine take the last shot in every situation to win the game; he'd be clutch because every now & then he would hit the shot?
Like I said, if you're shooting 40% all the time & hit 40% of your shots in the clutch is there any difference or are you just doing what you always do?
I remember Tim Duncan hit a game tying 3 in overtime in the playoffs a few years back; does that mean some super-natural force took over & allowed him to hit the shot?
Sure you can say you might be a little tense, you could make the argument; but these guys play in front of 50,000 people a night; I doubt anything makes them nervous.
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Just a little bit to add to that..
If a player "calms his nerves" & can magically just hit all his shots in the last two mintues; why can't he be even calmer during the rest of the game & just shoot like 90% from the field? In the first quarter I should see these clutch players go 9 for their first 10, no problem.
Also, those half court, million dollar shots are luck or clutch? I don't know, the pressure is sure on there & those aren't even professional athletes. :P
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Sick! Gonna be a very interesting season next year. I am kinda surprised that Lebron went to Miami though, basically means he'll never be mentioned as a focal point when/if they win a ring.
this is not true
it all depends on who plays best...and my money would be on Lebron. Wade misses 15 games every year and is 3 years older.
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i bet most fans on here gonna be heat bill waltons now, lebron is a chump yell
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Sick! Gonna be a very interesting season next year. I am kinda surprised that Lebron went to Miami though, basically means he'll never be mentioned as a focal point when/if they win a ring.
this is not true
it all depends on who plays best...and my money would be on Lebron. Wade misses 15 games every year and is 3 years older.
I still can't believe the people who think Wade is better than LeBron or the ones who even go as far as saying LeBron will be a sidekick. It's crazy talk. It's like saying Messi will be a sidekick if he joins the team Rooney is on. It doesn't make any sense and is just frustration talk. LeBron is the better player by far.
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Sick! Gonna be a very interesting season next year. I am kinda surprised that Lebron went to Miami though, basically means he'll never be mentioned as a focal point when/if they win a ring.
this is not true
it all depends on who plays best...and my money would be on Lebron. Wade misses 15 games every year and is 3 years older.
I still can't believe the people who think Wade is better than LeBron or the ones who even go as far as saying LeBron will be a sidekick. It's crazy talk. It's like saying Messi will be a sidekick if he joins the team Rooney is on. It doesn't make any sense and is just frustration talk. LeBron is the better player by far.
Yeah, LeBron is the better player. You would be hardpressed to find ANY analyst out there who would rank Wade above LeBron. Typically Wade is always looked at as the 3rd best perimeter player in the NBA. Behind LeBron and Kobe.
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According to former laker coach pat riley he said the following miami heat team would be like
Lebron = Magic Johnson
D wade = Kobe Bryant
C Bosh = Kevin Garnett
There's still room on the wagon :)
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According to former laker coach pat riley he said the following miami heat team would be like
Lebron = Magic Johnson
D wade = Kobe Bryant
C Bosh = Kevin Garnett
There's still room on the wagon :)
lol, fuck no, lebronze is no fucking magic johnson, thats fucking blasphemy are you fucking kidding me? this kid lebronze cant even carry himself to win one ring when he was supposedly the "best player" in the league. magic johnson can play all 5 poistions, he won finals mvp during his ROOKIE YEAR, lechoke
dude sucks (compared to the greats, he has unbelievable athelticism and passes) ive been saying this and him going to the heat to join 3 superstars discredits everything. even larry bird has taken back his words of "lebron is going to be better than all of us" the fact is lebron lost all his crediblity, he took the easy way out, rather than sticking with his team and being loyal. dude ditched his organization that basically did everything he pleases and left.
LOL BOSH IS DEFENITLY NO KG, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME? DUDE HAS NO DEFENSE AND IS HELLA SOFT? DO U EVEN WATCH THE NBA? u must be the new AG cuz u talkin out of your ass. bandwagon ass playoff fan it seems to me.
d-wade kobe bryant? wow just wow, he doesnt have the jumpshot, nor the resume they have totallty different game, wades game is basically all inside, nor is he as clutch. u got to be kidding me. d-wade also isnt as good as defender as kobe is, man wtf are you smoking homie?
lol man go to real basketball forum and try saying that, youll get banned.
more room on the wagon? who can they get? i mean kurt thomas? brad miller? i mentioned these guys in the lakers thread to be our 2nd string players n their gonnabe starters? lol wow.
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u know what i just noticed, kobe was STUCK with shaq, kobe wanted the spotlight from the beginning lebron CHOSE to join 2 legit superstars
chosen one, king, yea right. dudes nothing but hype
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Besides center, LeBron can play any position on the court; the Magic comparison is not far off.
The only true difference is the ring count.
& I hate comparing old players to new players because I know damn well that if LeBron played in the 70's-80's he'd be the greatest thing to ever step on a court.
& before you all go into "damn, you on his dick", the same goes for Kobe, Wade or anybody of that caliber; these guys are just physically more phenominal than ANYBODY playing back then.
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I disagree with the argument that clutchness doesn't exist. There is honestly no other way to explain how Derek Fisher (whose sole reputation is based on the fact that he's clutch), was arguably the worst starting PG in the league during the entire regular season. And yet in the Finals, he was able to come through for the Lakers time and time again and live up to his reputation, which most people thought he wouldn't be able to do anymore at this point of his career. He single-handedly bailed us out in the last few minutes of Game 3, and I was stunned once again, because as much as I love Fish, I honestly didn't think he had it in him anymore.
I think clutchness is very real. What sucks is that it's a very subjective issue, but when you watch a player long enough, you'll generally know whether or not the player is naturally a clutch player.
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Besides center, LeBron can play any position on the court; the Magic comparison is not far off.
The only true difference is the ring count.
& I hate comparing old players to new players because I know damn well that if LeBron played in the 70's-80's he'd be the greatest thing to ever step on a court.
& before you all go into "damn, you on his dick", the same goes for Kobe, Wade or anybody of that caliber; these guys are just physically more phenominal than ANYBODY playing back then.
^^ truth
Looney, i've been a miami heat fan since way back.. D wade came in the league without a jump shot and killed teams with his jump shot during the 2006 championship run. you over there having a rage moment and dont know what you talkin about lol
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@Halu: http://www.youtube.com/v/ErjeDLhloIY&feature=related
All relatively normal shots, the first two were wide open; the next two were vintage hook shots by both of them & then Jordan is just Jordan, he's the GOAT for a reason. Those shots were just shots he always hit, they just don't all get shown because they all were NBA Final game winners.
http://www.youtube.com/v/i2_FZ0Aw_kc Pretty prime example that any shot in basketball can drop at any given time. Is a half court shot clutch? Not to me.
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^ No offense but why was that post directed at me? None of that has anything to do with the example I brought up, which was Derek Fisher.
Derek Fisher was arguably the worst starting PG in the league during the regular season. In the offseason, he had his shitty moments too, but he managed to step up time and time again including single-handedly winning us Game 3 in Boston in the last few minutes of the game.
Clutchness is ability to perform under pressure and step up when the team needs it. It has a lot more to do than just "making impossible shots".
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^ No offense but why was that post directed at me? None of that has anything to do with the example I brought up, which was Derek Fisher.
Derek Fisher was arguably the worst starting PG in the league during the regular season. In the offseason, he had his shitty moments too, but he managed to step up time and time again including single-handedly winning us Game 3 in Boston in the last few minutes of the game.
Clutchness is ability to perform under pressure and step up when the team needs it. It has a lot more to do than just "making impossible shots".
Just showing that a video of "the top 5 most clutch shots" which are all game winning shots in the finals are nothing more than two wide open threes, two vintage hook shots & Jordan being Jordan; no "stepping up", just doing what they always do, just late in a game.
If I recall, Derek Fisher's biggest shots are 3 pointers & Fisher has always been considered a great 3 point shooter, so what's the difference?
And like I said, if "being clutch" is calming your nerves, magically allowing you to hit shots at will, then why can't players just play calm the entire game & shoot 80% percent from the field? I mean, with 4 mintues left to play in the second quarter, there is no pressure, so why can't players just shoot unconcious; if you're saying being clutch is the calming of the nerves?
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^ No offense but why was that post directed at me? None of that has anything to do with the example I brought up, which was Derek Fisher.
Derek Fisher was arguably the worst starting PG in the league during the regular season. In the offseason, he had his shitty moments too, but he managed to step up time and time again including single-handedly winning us Game 3 in Boston in the last few minutes of the game.
Clutchness is ability to perform under pressure and step up when the team needs it. It has a lot more to do than just "making impossible shots".
Just showing that a video of "the top 5 most clutch shots" which are all game winning shots in the finals are nothing more than two wide open threes, two vintage hook shots & Jordan being Jordan; no "stepping up", just doing what they always do, just late in a game.
If I recall, Derek Fisher's biggest shots are 3 pointers & Fisher has always been considered a great 3 point shooter, so what's the difference?
And like I said, if "being clutch" is calming your nerves, magically allowing you to hit shots at will, then why can't players just play calm the entire game & shoot 80% percent from the field? I mean, with 4 mintues left to play in the second quarter, there is no pressure, so why can't players just shoot unconcious; if you're saying being clutch is the calming of the nerves?
Well I agree that there's more to being clutch than just hitting gamewinners, although gamewinners can help an argument when it comes to being clutch if that's what a player becomes known for.
Like I said, being clutch just means performing well under pressure. This can mean that great players are doing what they always do (aka NOT folding under pressure), or this can mean a role player such as Robert Horry or Derek Fisher stepping up to the occasion.
In all honesty, I don't think anyone can explain how Derek Fisher becomes so much better in the final minutes of close games in must-win situations. He just does lol.
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im still not scared of this team till i see the rest of the roster period.
Boston only had rookie ass Rondo, spot-up shooter House, charge-taking Posey and county jail player Perkins. You think the Heat can't come up with role players like those, despite having the best "Big 3" in the history of basketball?
Even without House and Posey, Celtics took you to 7 games, all while the big 3 was semi-retired. Man, the Heat can not be fucked with for years to come. They will be much better than the Celtics of 08, which is easily enough to beat the 2011 Lakers (no diss).
Me, knowing the Mavs will never win shit, am just glad to witness the SHOWTIME HEAT ... ;D
LMAO@Greatest Big 3 in basketball history... :-X
Magic-Kareem-Worthy...West-Wilt-Baylor...any of those names ring a bell?
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^ No offense but why was that post directed at me? None of that has anything to do with the example I brought up, which was Derek Fisher.
Derek Fisher was arguably the worst starting PG in the league during the regular season. In the offseason, he had his shitty moments too, but he managed to step up time and time again including single-handedly winning us Game 3 in Boston in the last few minutes of the game.
Clutchness is ability to perform under pressure and step up when the team needs it. It has a lot more to do than just "making impossible shots".
Just showing that a video of "the top 5 most clutch shots" which are all game winning shots in the finals are nothing more than two wide open threes, two vintage hook shots & Jordan being Jordan; no "stepping up", just doing what they always do, just late in a game.
If I recall, Derek Fisher's biggest shots are 3 pointers & Fisher has always been considered a great 3 point shooter, so what's the difference?
And like I said, if "being clutch" is calming your nerves, magically allowing you to hit shots at will, then why can't players just play calm the entire game & shoot 80% percent from the field? I mean, with 4 mintues left to play in the second quarter, there is no pressure, so why can't players just shoot unconcious; if you're saying being clutch is the calming of the nerves?
Well I agree that there's more to being clutch than just hitting gamewinners, although gamewinners can help an argument when it comes to being clutch if that's what a player becomes known for.
Like I said, being clutch just means performing well under pressure. This can mean that great players are doing what they always do (aka NOT folding under pressure), or this can mean a role player such as Robert Horry or Derek Fisher stepping up to the occasion.
In all honesty, I don't think anyone can explain how Derek Fisher becomes so much better in the final minutes of close games in must-win situations. He just does lol.
I think the term clutch is completely overused tho. I think it exists. But I agree with Cham too. If you shoot 45% from the field normally, and shoot 45% from the field in the final 2 minutes of a game...how is that clutch? IMO, the media tends to build up clutchness (is that a word!?) a lot. Fans love to see game winners, and guys who hit game winners. But how much do they ever focus on the shots these guys miss at the buzzer? Or in the last 2 minutes? Not much. Its just not exciting to talk about. I personally dont see Fisher as being extra CLUTCH compared to a lot of players. Just right place, right time. Same with Horry kind of. These guys just happen to play on teams where there were a lot of BIG moments to be captured. Think about how many playoff series and finals Fisher and Horry have been to. And they are guys who are getting the shots at the ends of games, usually because they are open.
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^ No offense but why was that post directed at me? None of that has anything to do with the example I brought up, which was Derek Fisher.
Derek Fisher was arguably the worst starting PG in the league during the regular season. In the offseason, he had his shitty moments too, but he managed to step up time and time again including single-handedly winning us Game 3 in Boston in the last few minutes of the game.
Clutchness is ability to perform under pressure and step up when the team needs it. It has a lot more to do than just "making impossible shots".
Just showing that a video of "the top 5 most clutch shots" which are all game winning shots in the finals are nothing more than two wide open threes, two vintage hook shots & Jordan being Jordan; no "stepping up", just doing what they always do, just late in a game.
If I recall, Derek Fisher's biggest shots are 3 pointers & Fisher has always been considered a great 3 point shooter, so what's the difference?
And like I said, if "being clutch" is calming your nerves, magically allowing you to hit shots at will, then why can't players just play calm the entire game & shoot 80% percent from the field? I mean, with 4 mintues left to play in the second quarter, there is no pressure, so why can't players just shoot unconcious; if you're saying being clutch is the calming of the nerves?
Well I agree that there's more to being clutch than just hitting gamewinners, although gamewinners can help an argument when it comes to being clutch if that's what a player becomes known for.
Like I said, being clutch just means performing well under pressure. This can mean that great players are doing what they always do (aka NOT folding under pressure), or this can mean a role player such as Robert Horry or Derek Fisher stepping up to the occasion.
In all honesty, I don't think anyone can explain how Derek Fisher becomes so much better in the final minutes of close games in must-win situations. He just does lol.
I think the term clutch is completely overused tho. I think it exists. But I agree with Cham too. If you shoot 45% from the field normally, and shoot 45% from the field in the final 2 minutes of a game...how is that clutch? IMO, the media tends to build up clutchness (is that a word!?) a lot. Fans love to see game winners, and guys who hit game winners. But how much do they ever focus on the shots these guys miss at the buzzer? Or in the last 2 minutes? Not much. Its just not exciting to talk about. I personally dont see Fisher as being extra CLUTCH compared to a lot of players. Just right place, right time. Same with Horry kind of. These guys just happen to play on teams where there were a lot of BIG moments to be captured. Think about how many playoff series and finals Fisher and Horry have been to. And they are guys who are getting the shots at the ends of games, usually because they are open.
Yes...and certain players (Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan) excel under pressure, while others (LeBron James, Cliff Robinson) fold. Even when playing pick-up ball, you can tell that there's a difference between the peeps with extra heart who step it up when the game is at peak levels, and those who are not as in the moment as the ones who have a greater passion to win. Then there are those who are in between, who are emotionally disconnected from the game and play the same game all the way down to the wire. Anyone who's actually played ball in their life wont argue this.
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^ No offense but why was that post directed at me? None of that has anything to do with the example I brought up, which was Derek Fisher.
Derek Fisher was arguably the worst starting PG in the league during the regular season. In the offseason, he had his shitty moments too, but he managed to step up time and time again including single-handedly winning us Game 3 in Boston in the last few minutes of the game.
Clutchness is ability to perform under pressure and step up when the team needs it. It has a lot more to do than just "making impossible shots".
Just showing that a video of "the top 5 most clutch shots" which are all game winning shots in the finals are nothing more than two wide open threes, two vintage hook shots & Jordan being Jordan; no "stepping up", just doing what they always do, just late in a game.
If I recall, Derek Fisher's biggest shots are 3 pointers & Fisher has always been considered a great 3 point shooter, so what's the difference?
And like I said, if "being clutch" is calming your nerves, magically allowing you to hit shots at will, then why can't players just play calm the entire game & shoot 80% percent from the field? I mean, with 4 mintues left to play in the second quarter, there is no pressure, so why can't players just shoot unconcious; if you're saying being clutch is the calming of the nerves?
Well I agree that there's more to being clutch than just hitting gamewinners, although gamewinners can help an argument when it comes to being clutch if that's what a player becomes known for.
Like I said, being clutch just means performing well under pressure. This can mean that great players are doing what they always do (aka NOT folding under pressure), or this can mean a role player such as Robert Horry or Derek Fisher stepping up to the occasion.
In all honesty, I don't think anyone can explain how Derek Fisher becomes so much better in the final minutes of close games in must-win situations. He just does lol.
I think the term clutch is completely overused tho. I think it exists. But I agree with Cham too. If you shoot 45% from the field normally, and shoot 45% from the field in the final 2 minutes of a game...how is that clutch? IMO, the media tends to build up clutchness (is that a word!?) a lot. Fans love to see game winners, and guys who hit game winners. But how much do they ever focus on the shots these guys miss at the buzzer? Or in the last 2 minutes? Not much. Its just not exciting to talk about. I personally dont see Fisher as being extra CLUTCH compared to a lot of players. Just right place, right time. Same with Horry kind of. These guys just happen to play on teams where there were a lot of BIG moments to be captured. Think about how many playoff series and finals Fisher and Horry have been to. And they are guys who are getting the shots at the ends of games, usually because they are open.
Yes...and certain players (Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan) excel under pressure, while others (LeBron James, Cliff Robinson) fold. Even when playing pick-up ball, you can tell that there's a difference between the peeps with extra heart who step it up when the game is at peak levels, and those who are not as in the moment as the ones who have a greater passion to win. Then there are those who are in between, who are emotionally disconnected from the game and play the same game all the way down to the wire. Anyone who's actually played ball in their life wont argue this.
What youre calling clutch, others would call inconsistent lol.
What Im saying is, people use the term clutch everytime a big shot is made. Every game winning shot is.."clutch"!! lol. Even if that player makes 4 out 10 game winning shots, all the 4 shots are clutch...and the other 6 misses dont exist. Even if that player regularly shoots 40% from the field. How is that "clutch"? Thats just doing what you normally do. The moment itself is all that makes it "clutch". Not the performance. And some players have been put in bigger moments.
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Oh, and it has nothing to do with playin ball. Ive probably played more ball than anyone on this forum. Ive had summers where I played more ball than I slept. With NBA scrubs like your boy Walton and street players who were better. Means nothing to this argument.
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^ No offense but why was that post directed at me? None of that has anything to do with the example I brought up, which was Derek Fisher.
Derek Fisher was arguably the worst starting PG in the league during the regular season. In the offseason, he had his shitty moments too, but he managed to step up time and time again including single-handedly winning us Game 3 in Boston in the last few minutes of the game.
Clutchness is ability to perform under pressure and step up when the team needs it. It has a lot more to do than just "making impossible shots".
Just showing that a video of "the top 5 most clutch shots" which are all game winning shots in the finals are nothing more than two wide open threes, two vintage hook shots & Jordan being Jordan; no "stepping up", just doing what they always do, just late in a game.
If I recall, Derek Fisher's biggest shots are 3 pointers & Fisher has always been considered a great 3 point shooter, so what's the difference?
And like I said, if "being clutch" is calming your nerves, magically allowing you to hit shots at will, then why can't players just play calm the entire game & shoot 80% percent from the field? I mean, with 4 mintues left to play in the second quarter, there is no pressure, so why can't players just shoot unconcious; if you're saying being clutch is the calming of the nerves?
Well I agree that there's more to being clutch than just hitting gamewinners, although gamewinners can help an argument when it comes to being clutch if that's what a player becomes known for.
Like I said, being clutch just means performing well under pressure. This can mean that great players are doing what they always do (aka NOT folding under pressure), or this can mean a role player such as Robert Horry or Derek Fisher stepping up to the occasion.
In all honesty, I don't think anyone can explain how Derek Fisher becomes so much better in the final minutes of close games in must-win situations. He just does lol.
I think the term clutch is completely overused tho. I think it exists. But I agree with Cham too. If you shoot 45% from the field normally, and shoot 45% from the field in the final 2 minutes of a game...how is that clutch? IMO, the media tends to build up clutchness (is that a word!?) a lot. Fans love to see game winners, and guys who hit game winners. But how much do they ever focus on the shots these guys miss at the buzzer? Or in the last 2 minutes? Not much. Its just not exciting to talk about. I personally dont see Fisher as being extra CLUTCH compared to a lot of players. Just right place, right time. Same with Horry kind of. These guys just happen to play on teams where there were a lot of BIG moments to be captured. Think about how many playoff series and finals Fisher and Horry have been to. And they are guys who are getting the shots at the ends of games, usually because they are open.
Yes...and certain players (Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan) excel under pressure, while others (LeBron James, Cliff Robinson) fold. Even when playing pick-up ball, you can tell that there's a difference between the peeps with extra heart who step it up when the game is at peak levels, and those who are not as in the moment as the ones who have a greater passion to win. Then there are those who are in between, who are emotionally disconnected from the game and play the same game all the way down to the wire. Anyone who's actually played ball in their life wont argue this.
What youre calling clutch, others would call inconsistent lol.
What Im saying is, people use the term clutch everytime a big shot is made. Every game winning shot is.."clutch"!! lol. Even if that player makes 4 out 10 game winning shots, all the 4 shots are clutch...and the other 6 misses dont exist. Even if that player regularly shoots 40% from the field. How is that "clutch"? Thats just doing what you normally do. The moment itself is all that makes it "clutch". Not the performance. And some players have been put in bigger moments.
but some people actually do embrace those big moments and play better, with higher intensity and more focus...dont you get it? it's not something just made up to make sports more interesting. it's well documented that some players face the pressure with their chin up, while others fold under it, or even try to run away from it. even when you play horse with the homies, one of your homies might have the best shot ever, perfect mechanics and everything.. but when it's time for the last shot, and they need to make it, they miss the shot, because focus drifts from making the shot to "fuck, if i miss i lose"...and with that thought running in the back of your mind as you shoot, there's a higher chance you'll miss....i've seen it happen many times and have personally experienced it myself playing ball, so to say it's not real is pretty fuckin dumb LOL.
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im still not scared of this team till i see the rest of the roster period.
Boston only had rookie ass Rondo, spot-up shooter House, charge-taking Posey and county jail player Perkins. You think the Heat can't come up with role players like those, despite having the best "Big 3" in the history of basketball?
Even without House and Posey, Celtics took you to 7 games, all while the big 3 was semi-retired. Man, the Heat can not be fucked with for years to come. They will be much better than the Celtics of 08, which is easily enough to beat the 2011 Lakers (no diss).
Me, knowing the Mavs will never win shit, am just glad to witness the SHOWTIME HEAT ... ;D
LMAO@Greatest Big 3 in basketball history... :-X
Magic-Kareem-Worthy...West-Wilt-Baylor...any of those names ring a bell?
Well greatest Big 3 just sounds better than "one of the better"...
Anyways wouldn't it be quite natural to expect several rings from those 2 teams you mentioned if all those niggas are clearly in their respective primes?
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im still not scared of this team till i see the rest of the roster period.
Boston only had rookie ass Rondo, spot-up shooter House, charge-taking Posey and county jail player Perkins. You think the Heat can't come up with role players like those, despite having the best "Big 3" in the history of basketball?
Even without House and Posey, Celtics took you to 7 games, all while the big 3 was semi-retired. Man, the Heat can not be fucked with for years to come. They will be much better than the Celtics of 08, which is easily enough to beat the 2011 Lakers (no diss).
Me, knowing the Mavs will never win shit, am just glad to witness the SHOWTIME HEAT ... ;D
LMAO@Greatest Big 3 in basketball history... :-X
Magic-Kareem-Worthy...West-Wilt-Baylor...any of those names ring a bell?
Yet all those rings won are "legit" & all members are given full credit for them? TAKE THE GOGGLES OFF MAN. :laugh:
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^ No offense but why was that post directed at me? None of that has anything to do with the example I brought up, which was Derek Fisher.
Derek Fisher was arguably the worst starting PG in the league during the regular season. In the offseason, he had his shitty moments too, but he managed to step up time and time again including single-handedly winning us Game 3 in Boston in the last few minutes of the game.
Clutchness is ability to perform under pressure and step up when the team needs it. It has a lot more to do than just "making impossible shots".
Just showing that a video of "the top 5 most clutch shots" which are all game winning shots in the finals are nothing more than two wide open threes, two vintage hook shots & Jordan being Jordan; no "stepping up", just doing what they always do, just late in a game.
If I recall, Derek Fisher's biggest shots are 3 pointers & Fisher has always been considered a great 3 point shooter, so what's the difference?
And like I said, if "being clutch" is calming your nerves, magically allowing you to hit shots at will, then why can't players just play calm the entire game & shoot 80% percent from the field? I mean, with 4 mintues left to play in the second quarter, there is no pressure, so why can't players just shoot unconcious; if you're saying being clutch is the calming of the nerves?
Well I agree that there's more to being clutch than just hitting gamewinners, although gamewinners can help an argument when it comes to being clutch if that's what a player becomes known for.
Like I said, being clutch just means performing well under pressure. This can mean that great players are doing what they always do (aka NOT folding under pressure), or this can mean a role player such as Robert Horry or Derek Fisher stepping up to the occasion.
In all honesty, I don't think anyone can explain how Derek Fisher becomes so much better in the final minutes of close games in must-win situations. He just does lol.
I think the term clutch is completely overused tho. I think it exists. But I agree with Cham too. If you shoot 45% from the field normally, and shoot 45% from the field in the final 2 minutes of a game...how is that clutch? IMO, the media tends to build up clutchness (is that a word!?) a lot. Fans love to see game winners, and guys who hit game winners. But how much do they ever focus on the shots these guys miss at the buzzer? Or in the last 2 minutes? Not much. Its just not exciting to talk about. I personally dont see Fisher as being extra CLUTCH compared to a lot of players. Just right place, right time. Same with Horry kind of. These guys just happen to play on teams where there were a lot of BIG moments to be captured. Think about how many playoff series and finals Fisher and Horry have been to. And they are guys who are getting the shots at the ends of games, usually because they are open.
Yes...and certain players (Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan) excel under pressure, while others (LeBron James, Cliff Robinson) fold. Even when playing pick-up ball, you can tell that there's a difference between the peeps with extra heart who step it up when the game is at peak levels, and those who are not as in the moment as the ones who have a greater passion to win. Then there are those who are in between, who are emotionally disconnected from the game and play the same game all the way down to the wire. Anyone who's actually played ball in their life wont argue this.
What youre calling clutch, others would call inconsistent lol.
What Im saying is, people use the term clutch everytime a big shot is made. Every game winning shot is.."clutch"!! lol. Even if that player makes 4 out 10 game winning shots, all the 4 shots are clutch...and the other 6 misses dont exist. Even if that player regularly shoots 40% from the field. How is that "clutch"? Thats just doing what you normally do. The moment itself is all that makes it "clutch". Not the performance. And some players have been put in bigger moments.
but some people actually do embrace those big moments and play better, with higher intensity and more focus...dont you get it? it's not something just made up to make sports more interesting. it's well documented that some players face the pressure with their chin up, while others fold under it, or even try to run away from it. even when you play horse with the homies, one of your homies might have the best shot ever, perfect mechanics and everything.. but when it's time for the last shot, and they need to make it, they miss the shot, because focus drifts from making the shot to "fuck, if i miss i lose"...and with that thought running in the back of your mind as you shoot, there's a higher chance you'll miss....i've seen it happen many times and have personally experienced it myself playing ball, so to say it's not real is pretty fuckin dumb LOL.
Here yah go...
The Captain of Crunch
Is Kobe Bryant really the best clutch player in the NBA?
By Alan Siegel
Posted Tuesday, June 8, 2010, at 4:12 PM ET
Will Kobe Bryant sink the Celtics?Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant isn't just looking for his fifth ring in the 2010 NBA Finals. The Black Mamba is also hoping to cement his second nickname. ABC's Mark Jackson, a devoted Kobephile, often refers to Bryant as "the best closer in basketball." Sports Illustrated's Chris Mannix recently called Bryant "the game's most cold-blooded closer." The New York Times' Howard Beck, too, deemed Bryant "the NBA's ultimate closer." Oakland Tribune columnist Monte Poole wrote that Bryant isn't just the best closer in basketball, "he's the best closer in sports."
Bryant did not succeed in closing out Sunday night's Game 2, a nine-point victory by the Boston Celtics. Still, if Game 3 is on the line, the Lakers will give the ball to Kobe. Not that it should surprise Boston: In a 2009 Sports Illustrated poll, 76 percent of NBA players chose him as the player they'd want to take the last shot with the game on the line. (The next closest, Chauncey Billups, received 3 percent of the votes.) Chances are the players didn't pore over the encyclopedic basketball stats Web site 82 Games before weighing in. If they had, his colleagues would have found that while Bryant does excel late in games, his clutchness is definitely overrated.
The topic of "clutch" is a contentious one in sports. In baseball, the debate over clutch hitting has raged for decades, with sabermetricians arguing there's no evidence it's an actual skill and wizened baseball men claiming they've seen it with their own two eyes. In basketball, a sport that's been slower to embrace modern statistics, the fight over clutchness is in its relative infancy. Perhaps Kobe Bryant, then, will become the NBA's Derek Jeter: a player whom the media and the fans perceive as clutch despite a lack of statistical evidence to prove the case.
The Kobe-as-closer idea kicked into gear this season as Bryant sank six game-winning shots, each more spectacular than the last. On Dec. 4 against the Miami Heat, for example, he banked in a 3-pointer at the buzzer off one foot with Dwyane Wade in his face. As fans, though, we tend to remember the makes and forget the misses. According to 82 Games, Bryant missed the most potentially game-winning shots (42) of anyone in the NBA from 2003-04 through the middle of the 2008-09 season. (In this study, a game-winning shot was defined as one taken with 24 seconds or less remaining and the score tied or the team with the ball down by 1 or 2 points.) While Bryant was fourth in the NBA in game-winners (14) over that period—behind LeBron James, Vince Carter, and Ray Allen—his .250 game-winning shooting percentage was below the league average of .298. That .250 mark was also the second-worst of anyone with at least six game-winning baskets, behind only the SI poll's second-favorite clutch performer, Chauncey Billups. (Some of the league's best late-game shooters by percentage: Carmelo Anthony, Antawn Jamison, and Pau Gasol.)
Clutchness doesn't always come down to whether you make a shot at the buzzer. If we go with the definition proffered by 82 Games, "clutch" situations are those with less than five minutes left in the fourth quarter or in overtime and neither team ahead by more than five points. At first glance, Bryant seems to pulverize opponents in these close-and-late scenarios: He was second in the league this season in points scored per 48 minutes in the clutch (51.2), first in 2008-09 (56.7), and second in 2007-08 (51.8 ).
But again, point totals don't tell the whole story—it also matters how often you make the clutch shots you take. I called upon David J. Berri, an economics professor at Southern Utah University and the co-author of Stumbling on Wins, to help me determine how Bryant's clutch shooting percentage compared to his peers. First, Berri determined which players took the most shots in the clutch over the past few regular seasons. According to his data, 49 players compiled at least 100 clutch minutes and averaged at least 16 field goal attempts per 48 clutch minutes in 2009-2010. While Bryant had the second-highest scoring average in this group of 49, he did it while averaging the second most field goal attempts. That left the Lakers star 17th in clutch field goal percentage (.444) in 2009-10, behind players like Andrea Bargnani and Zach Randolph. Bryant didn't do any better the previous two seasons, finishing 21st out of 59 qualifying players in clutch shooting percentage in 2008-09 and 24th out of 59 in 2007-08. (In all three years, his standard field goal percentage was slightly better than his clutch shooting percentage.)
Bryant also doesn't look particularly clutch if you judge him by Berri's advanced stats. In the service of our clutchness study, the economist narrowed the scope of his Wins Produced per 48 minutes metric to players who have logged at least 100 minutes of clutch time. After breaking down the past three regular seasons, Berri discovered that Bryant was 17th among qualifiers in WP48 Clutch in 2009-10, fourth in 2008-09, and 21st in 2007-08. (In all three seasons, Bryant's WP48 Clutch number was an improvement over his standard WP48, meaning that by this measure, he performed better in the clutch than in regular game situations.)
Berri's numbers, however, don't include the part of the season where legends are made: the playoffs. According to that 82 Games study of game-winning shots, Bryant and LeBron James are tied with the most playoff game-winners (four) from 2003 to 2008. Considering that small sample size, we need more data to figure out if The Closer closes out NBA playoff games. To that end, I contacted Wayne Winston, a professor at Indiana University and a former consultant for the Dallas Mavericks. To evaluate a player's performance late in games, Winston used an adjusted fourth quarter plus-minus rating, which (as defined by 82 Games) "indicate how many additional points are contributed to a team's scoring margin by a given player in comparison to the league-average player over the span of a typical game." In this case, Winston shortened the span from a typical game to just the fourth quarter. Over the past four seasons—including the 2009-10 playoffs and Game 1 of this year's NBA Finals—Bryant has excelled late in games, but he isn't the best closer in basketball. According to Winston's calculations, that title belongs to LeBron James, who has a fourth quarter plus-minus rating of +21. Dwyane Wade is second in the league at +12 and Bryant is tied for third with Tim Duncan at +11.
Berri's numbers agree with Winston's: The King is a better closer than Black Mamba. James' Wins Produced per 48 minutes number skyrocketed from .441 to .893 in the clutch (first in the NBA) during the 2009-10 regular season, from .426 to .944 in the clutch (first in the NBA) during the 2008-09 regular season, and from .327 to .550 in the clutch (second in the NBA) during the 2007-08 regular season. (Bryant's WP48 Clutch numbers in those years are anemic by comparison: .282, .429, and .300.)
What accounts for James' greatness in the clutch? Essentially, almost every facet of his game improves when the game is on the line. "Most importantly, [James] improved with respect to shooting efficiency and rebounds," Berri explained via e-mail. "Kobe also improved by lesser amounts with respect to rebounds and free throws. But he also got worse with respect to shooting efficiency from the field, assists, blocked shots, and steals. Basically each player tries to do more in the clutch. But LeBron is better at turning this effort into results."
LeBron's ability in the clutch can be quantified in other ways. He led the league in points per 48 minutes of clutch time in 2009-10 (66.1) and 2007-08 (56.0), and finished second (55.9) to Bryant in 2008-09. He also had a better clutch field goal percentage per 48 minutes than Bryant in 2009-10 (.488, ninth), 2008-09 (.556, second), and 2007-08 (.475, 16th). And according to 82 Games, James also had six game-winning assists from 2003 to 2009, while Bryant had just one assist to go along with his 56 shot attempts.
So, does LeBron James' run of clutchness mean that there is such a thing as clutch ability in basketball? Berri says that a couple of years of LeBron and Kobe stats aren't enough to help us reach a general conclusion. All we can say at this point, the economist believes, "is that Kobe is not the most clutch player in the history of the universe (or whatever Kobe fans assert)."
Behavorial economist Daniel Ariely argues that a player's clutchness is a fiction based more on social agreement than on performance. In a study, Ariely asked a group of professional coaches who they thought were the NBA's best clutch players. Not surprisingly, the same set of stars kept coming up, including Bryant, James, Wade, and Duncan. Ariely then compared the performances of alleged clutch players with those were not explicitly identified as clutch. "As it turned out, the clutch players did not improve their skill; they just [shot the ball] many more times," Ariely wrote in a recent piece for the Huffington Post. "Their field goal percentage did not increase in the last five minutes. … [N]either was it the case that non-clutch players got worse."
Before latching on to pro basketball players, Ariely initially set out to study Wall Street bankers—another group that fights for supremacy as a part of highly selective teams. Ariely says he heard the same things about the bankers and the athletes: They're not regular people. They thrive on stress. Indeed, that SI poll about late-game heroes shows that Bryant's colleagues don't see him as a regular person, that they believe he thrives on stress. Kobe might be the best basketball player alive, and he very well could hit a game-winning shot in the NBA Finals. He's doesn't, however, have a unique ability to score in the clutch. The only reason he's The Closer is that his teammates, his coach, and the sports media have chosen him to assume the role.
http://www.slate.com/id/2255932
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^^long, but interesting. Im sure NIK will come in here and immediately call this writer a Kobe hater and LeBron dickrider lol But the numbers are the numbers...no matter who writes the article.
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Lebron's and Wade's stats Per 48 min stats if the game is in the last 5 min in the 4th or OT with neither team ahead by more than 5 points.
66.1 Pts (best in the league)
15.9 Reb (9th best)
8.3 Asst (9th best)
3.2 Blks (13th best)
3.2 Stls (6th best)
Wade
32.6 Pts
6.3 Reb
10 Asst
2.7 Blks
2.3 Stls
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http://www.breakupwithlebron.com/
:D