West Coast Connection Forum

Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: S P I C E on September 05, 2010, 01:28:51 PM

Title: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: S P I C E on September 05, 2010, 01:28:51 PM
TRUE
STORY
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: OG Hack Wilson on September 05, 2010, 05:25:43 PM
it misses steroids period
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: MontrealCity's Most on September 05, 2010, 09:42:57 PM
it misses steroids period

lol
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Chamillitary Click on September 05, 2010, 11:49:54 PM
Fuck who Baseball misses; I MISS BARRY BONDS. :-\
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: you gon always be my latin queen bitch on September 06, 2010, 06:42:46 AM
Lol^ do u mind him usin whatever he used if he used?
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Chamillitary Click on September 06, 2010, 08:21:46 AM
Lol^ do u mind him usin whatever he used if he used?

Na, he was Barry fuckin' Bonds. I loved that guy.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 06, 2010, 09:44:40 AM
Lol^ do u mind him usin whatever he used if he used?


What's the difference between a baseball using steroids so he can spend more time in the gym and stay more physically alert, or a Quarterback using modern sports medicine and techniques to make sure his shoulder can still function at an elite level in the playoffs, or Paul Pierce using that Anti-inflammatory  shot to get back into the finals a couple years back and win the Championship?

All three are things where an athlete benefits from something that they would "naturally" be unable to do on their own. There's plenty of legal medicines that do the job of steroids. Maybe not as effectively but they are still unnatural. Steroids wasn't banned because it was cheating. It was banned because it was unhealthy. I don't like nanny states.

God Bless Barry Bonds! For sacrificing his own body and well being in an attempt to help his team and fans win. Ronnie Lott amputated half his pinky finger mid-game so he could stay out there and help San Fran win and we call him a hero for, well some do. Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, and Roger Clemens helped baseball. Congress and closed minded people are the ones at fault here. Shame on you all.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: M Dogg™ on September 06, 2010, 11:14:40 AM
Barry Bonds... GOAT of his era  8)
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: S P I C E on September 06, 2010, 11:21:04 AM
Barry Bonds... GOAT of his era  8)

Oh no doubt..  Arod, Griff and Pujols are great players but not close to Bonds level.  I would call Bonds the goat in the history of the game but a couple guys with the last names of Mays and Ruth might have something to say about that.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: you gon always be my latin queen bitch on September 06, 2010, 01:16:30 PM
Damn bonds the goat? And i was askin cham if he cared that bonds had used anythin as n would he still support him as many dont cuz hes 756*...lol
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Chamillitary Click on September 06, 2010, 03:23:33 PM
Barry Bonds... GOAT of his era  8)

Fuck outta here, GOAT, period. 8)

Homerun king, five tool player; unreal. Shame he didn't get to go out on his own terms & won't be celebrated for being the greatest.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: The Come Up Shuffle on September 06, 2010, 04:56:05 PM
No it doesn't, the year after Bonds retired or was forced out or whatever depending on how you look at it, Baseball broke attendance and revenue records.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: The Come Up Shuffle on September 06, 2010, 05:01:48 PM
Barry Bonds... GOAT of his era  8)

Fuck outta here, GOAT, period. 8)

Homerun king, five tool player; unreal. Shame he didn't get to go out on his own terms & won't be celebrated for being the greatest.

Ruth >>> Bonds

Let me know when Bonds has the lowest ERA in World Series history lol.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Chamillitary Click on September 06, 2010, 05:05:17 PM
Barry Bonds... GOAT of his era  8)

Fuck outta here, GOAT, period. 8)

Homerun king, five tool player; unreal. Shame he didn't get to go out on his own terms & won't be celebrated for being the greatest.

Ruth >>> Bonds

Let me know when Bonds has the lowest ERA in World Series history lol.

lol, that's fucked up though.

Different times, but I guess you're right.

Whatever, post Babe, Bonds is GOAT. 8)
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: theremedy360 on September 06, 2010, 09:22:45 PM
Barry Bonds... GOAT of his era  8)

Oh no doubt..  Arod, Griff and Pujols are great players but not close to Bonds level.  I would call Bonds the goat in the history of the game but a couple guys with the last names of Mays and Ruth might have something to say about that.

I think if Griffey had stayed healthy he could have surpassed Bonds but I can't argue with that based on the fact that Griffey couldn't really stay healthy for the second half of his career.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 09, 2010, 12:57:05 PM
Barry Bonds... GOAT of his era  8)

Fuck outta here, GOAT, period. 8)

Homerun king, five tool player; unreal. Shame he didn't get to go out on his own terms & won't be celebrated for being the greatest.

Ruth >>> Bonds

Let me know when Bonds has the lowest ERA in World Series history lol.

lol, that's fucked up though.

Different times, but I guess you're right.

Whatever, post Babe, Bonds is GOAT. 8)


Let me just add, that if it was really a different time then you'd see more homerun beasts that were also Cy Young caliber pitchers. As far as I know there were only ever two pro players that were king hitters and king pitchers. Babe Ruth and Satchel Paige.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Chamillitary Click on September 09, 2010, 02:04:49 PM
Barry Bonds... GOAT of his era  8)

Fuck outta here, GOAT, period. 8)

Homerun king, five tool player; unreal. Shame he didn't get to go out on his own terms & won't be celebrated for being the greatest.

Ruth >>> Bonds

Let me know when Bonds has the lowest ERA in World Series history lol.

lol, that's fucked up though.

Different times, but I guess you're right.

Whatever, post Babe, Bonds is GOAT. 8)


Let me just add, that if it was really a different time then you'd see more homerun beasts that were also Cy Young caliber pitchers. As far as I know there were only ever two pro players that were king hitters and king pitchers. Babe Ruth and Satchel Paige.

In today's game, once you hit High School, if you're a dominating, college-level pitcher, you'll never bat; it's almost an unwritten rule to protect you.

I mean, I suppose you could find a product like that out of DR or PR, but no kid in the states will get exploited like that to be the best at both.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 06:52:33 AM
Barry Bonds... GOAT of his era  8)

Fuck outta here, GOAT, period. 8)

Homerun king, five tool player; unreal. Shame he didn't get to go out on his own terms & won't be celebrated for being the greatest.

Ruth >>> Bonds

Let me know when Bonds has the lowest ERA in World Series history lol.

lol, that's fucked up though.

Different times, but I guess you're right.

Whatever, post Babe, Bonds is GOAT. 8)


Let me just add, that if it was really a different time then you'd see more homerun beasts that were also Cy Young caliber pitchers. As far as I know there were only ever two pro players that were king hitters and king pitchers. Babe Ruth and Satchel Paige.

In today's game, once you hit High School, if you're a dominating, college-level pitcher, you'll never bat; it's almost an unwritten rule to protect you.

I mean, I suppose you could find a product like that out of DR or PR, but no kid in the states will get exploited like that to be the best at both.


Neither was Ruth. He came up a pitcher. A star pitcher at a very young age. Pitchers would bat like they do in the NL. They saw him hit and suggested he should hit more. The first year they transitioned him. In 1918 Ruth was 13-7 for a 2.22 ERA and 18 completes. That year he also lead the league in HRs despite only batting about half the ABs. So they said. If a guy can lead the league in HRs with half the at bats, let's see what he can do with a full AB. He tripled his HR output. The year after that he set the record.

Babe Ruth is not a product of his era. He is a beast of talent that was so good it wouldn't matter where he played. The 20s, the 70s, today, or a 100 years from now. That's why in all the years of baseball there haven't been any other flukes since Babe Ruth the amazing pitcher was allowed to bat more.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Javier on September 10, 2010, 07:31:02 AM
Great pitchers are "babied" since HS, especially if they're signed by a ML team.  There are always cases in every draft where a player is looked at X amount of teams as a pitcher, and Y amount of teams as a hitter.  And it's worse if you just start off as a batter, because unless there is 18+inning game, that player will never get to pitch in a professional game.  And pitchers, no matter how good of a hitter they seem to be a at a young age will never be told by a coach/manager that he should hit more.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 09:02:13 AM
Great pitchers are "babied" since HS, especially if they're signed by a ML team.  There are always cases in every draft where a player is looked at X amount of teams as a pitcher, and Y amount of teams as a hitter.  And it's worse if you just start off as a batter, because unless there is 18+inning game, that player will never get to pitch in a professional game.  And pitchers, no matter how good of a hitter they seem to be a at a young age will never be told by a coach/manager that he should hit more.


You show me a pitcher in practice that can hit 460 foot bombs and told to stay pitching and forget batting and I'll agree with you. Where are all the other pitchers from Ruth's era that became full time hitters? Show me them. People make it seem like every 5th pitcher was becoming a batter after his 5th year and Ruth just happened to be the one that became good at it.

The truth is that 1918 Ruth is the most valuable player in MLB history and it's not even close.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Javier on September 10, 2010, 09:18:31 AM
James Loney was a much better pitcher in HS.  Dodgers were one of the few teams that actually liked him as a hitter instead.  He was on top of many lists as a pitcher, and probably would have been an average pitcher or who knows he could have developed into an ace.  That's the thing, one this guy turned 18 and he was drafted as hitter.  Unless you fail as a pitcher, and this gets harder and harder as the years go by.  That's why the Ankiel story is amazing.  Back to the Loney situation, the scouts of today are much more advanced and know if a player is suited to be a a hitter or a pitcher(if of course they excel in both).  If a Babe Ruth comes up as a HS Senior in next year's June draft, he'll get picked up as a hitter and his career as a pitcher will never happen.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 09:33:43 AM
James Loney was a much better pitcher in HS.  Dodgers were one of the few teams that actually liked him as a hitter instead.  He was on top of many lists as a pitcher, and probably would have been an average pitcher or who knows he could have developed into an ace.  That's the thing, one this guy turned 18 and he was drafted as hitter.  Unless you fail as a pitcher, and this gets harder and harder as the years go by.  That's why the Ankiel story is amazing.  Back to the Loney situation, the scouts of today are much more advanced and know if a player is suited to be a a hitter or a pitcher(if of course they excel in both).  If a Babe Ruth comes up as a HS Senior in next year's June draft, he'll get picked up as a hitter and his career as a pitcher will never happen.


Well there really is no record of what Ruth was like in his HS years. We know that at 18 he was picked up in the minors as a pitcher and then won World Series games as a a pitcher, and lead the league in HRs the same year. James fucking Loney can't even hit more than 15 HRs a season, and he'd have to be two times better as a pitcher than a batter to be half as good as Ruth was as a pitcher.

If an MLB scout saw a 16 year old throw the ball 95+ mph and hit the ball 450+ feet and do each consistently they'd bring that kid up as both and decide to do later, or let him play both. But these people simply don't exist; except for Babe Ruth and Satchel Paige.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Javier on September 10, 2010, 09:41:22 AM
I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team.  My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one.  Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent. 
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: you gon always be my latin queen bitch on September 10, 2010, 10:00:42 AM
Bring him back he needs a job and baseball nees him
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Twentytwofifty on September 10, 2010, 10:35:56 AM
Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent.

Like this kid:
(http://www.weallscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/bryce-harper.jpg)


Looks like they won't let him even try catching, they'll throw him in RF instead.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 04:28:57 PM
I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team.  My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one.  Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent. 


I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.

What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Chamillitary Click on September 10, 2010, 04:37:23 PM
I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team.  My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one.  Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent. 


I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.

What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.

The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 09:50:24 PM
I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team.  My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one.  Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent. 


I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.

What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.

The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.

So that means when Ruth was throwing 23 win seasons with 41 CGs with a 1.75 ERA and 9 shut out games a years he was really just throwing 18 straight innings a day? Shit, he must have been the best pitcher ever.

I don't get you. I really don't. When Ruth smashes HRs he does so because the pitchers back then sucked. And when he has blow away knock out pitching seasons he does so because the batters back then sucked. So the MLB in the teens and 20s was just one big high school league and Babe Ruth was the only guy that would have make the league in the modern game, and if he tries really hard he might get to start a game or two.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Chamillitary Click on September 10, 2010, 09:58:50 PM
I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team.  My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one.  Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent. 


I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.

What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.

The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.

So that means when Ruth was throwing 23 win seasons with 41 CGs with a 1.75 ERA and 9 shut out games a years he was really just throwing 18 straight innings a day? Shit, he must have been the best pitcher ever.

I don't get you. I really don't. When Ruth smashes HRs he does so because the pitchers back then sucked. And when he has blow away knock out pitching seasons he does so because the batters back then sucked. So the MLB in the teens and 20s was just one big high school league and Babe Ruth was the only guy that would have make the league in the modern game, and if he tries really hard he might get to start a game or two.

No, what are you talking about? You get me lol.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 10, 2010, 10:02:05 PM
I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team.  My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one.  Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent. 


I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.

What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.

The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.

So that means when Ruth was throwing 23 win seasons with 41 CGs with a 1.75 ERA and 9 shut out games a years he was really just throwing 18 straight innings a day? Shit, he must have been the best pitcher ever.

I don't get you. I really don't. When Ruth smashes HRs he does so because the pitchers back then sucked. And when he has blow away knock out pitching seasons he does so because the batters back then sucked. So the MLB in the teens and 20s was just one big high school league and Babe Ruth was the only guy that would have make the league in the modern game, and if he tries really hard he might get to start a game or two.

No, what are you talking about? You get me lol.


I'll never get you, but I will envy you for the next 4 years, but I'd kill to re-do 18-22 in my life. Enjoy these years my friend. Because you never get them back, but you spend a lot of years thinking about them.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Chamillitary Click on September 10, 2010, 10:12:56 PM
I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team.  My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one.  Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent. 


I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.

What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.

The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.

So that means when Ruth was throwing 23 win seasons with 41 CGs with a 1.75 ERA and 9 shut out games a years he was really just throwing 18 straight innings a day? Shit, he must have been the best pitcher ever.

I don't get you. I really don't. When Ruth smashes HRs he does so because the pitchers back then sucked. And when he has blow away knock out pitching seasons he does so because the batters back then sucked. So the MLB in the teens and 20s was just one big high school league and Babe Ruth was the only guy that would have make the league in the modern game, and if he tries really hard he might get to start a game or two.

No, what are you talking about? You get me lol.


I'll never get you, but I will envy you for the next 4 years, but I'd kill to re-do 18-22 in my life. Enjoy these years my friend. Because you never get them back, but you spend a lot of years thinking about them.

I will live them up for you, brah! 8)

We disagree..often, but when arguing sports amongst friends, I ask myself "What would Shallow say?" & nine times out of ten it works. You are a knowledgable sports mind. 8)
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: M Dogg™ on September 11, 2010, 12:17:31 AM
I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team.  My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one.  Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent. 


I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.

What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.

The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.

So that means when Ruth was throwing 23 win seasons with 41 CGs with a 1.75 ERA and 9 shut out games a years he was really just throwing 18 straight innings a day? Shit, he must have been the best pitcher ever.

I don't get you. I really don't. When Ruth smashes HRs he does so because the pitchers back then sucked. And when he has blow away knock out pitching seasons he does so because the batters back then sucked. So the MLB in the teens and 20s was just one big high school league and Babe Ruth was the only guy that would have make the league in the modern game, and if he tries really hard he might get to start a game or two.

No, what are you talking about? You get me lol.


I'll never get you, but I will envy you for the next 4 years, but I'd kill to re-do 18-22 in my life. Enjoy these years my friend. Because you never get them back, but you spend a lot of years thinking about them.

True words, man I miss being 18-22, it was the funniest times, with the best girls.

Back to baseball, We talk about Ruth, I still am not sold on Ruth being the GOAT, but after a long look at baseball I am not sure anyone is the GOAT. Each era is so different. I mean you have the dead ball era, and I'd say if you look at surroundings Ty Cobbs is someone people should look at.

In an era where people couldn't hit, Cobbs went on to become the all-time hits leader until Pete Rose broke his record.

Coming out of the Dead Ball Era you have the Golden Era were Babe Ruth started a new style of power ball, of course become the home run king until Hank Aaron.

Those two eras come with their own asterisk as  baseball was separated by color. In 1947 baseball breaks the color lines and we get a sort of racial integration era highlighted by my personal favorite, Willie Mays.

In 1960 baseball begins the Expansion Era and quality of play takes a hit, but that also lead to a pitching era lead by Sandy Koufax.

In the 70's, we have the Free Agency Era, and run production increases again and Reggie Jackson takes center stage among all the free agency controversy.

1994 sees the dawn of the Steroid Era. Every timeline I have seen usually calls this the Long Ball Era, usually dated 1994 because of the season ending strike. But I would argue that even though steroids were used in the 80's, it becomes unreal in the 90's, and every team had at least one player juicing. Barry Bonds is the poster child of that era.

So that's kind of how I see it, it's hard to compare Cobbs to Ruth to Mays to Koufax to Jackson to Bonds. Then you have players who were in their eras top 10 who you might say is better than another eras best. The game has changed too much.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 11, 2010, 06:21:22 AM
Obviously you can never really compare people that didn't play against the same players. I don't put Ruth the hitter as GOAT above any of the names you mentioned. It's only when I factor in the pitching accolades that I have to call him the greatest. That's like a player being a QB and a middle line-backer and leafing the league in TDs and INTs. (I think there was one back in the really old days).




1994 sees the dawn of the Steroid Era. Every timeline I have seen usually calls this the Long Ball Era, usually dated 1994 because of the season ending strike. But I would argue that even though steroids were used in the 80's, it becomes unreal in the 90's, and every team had at least one player juicing. Barry Bonds is the poster child of that era.


Now this I don't feel to be true. There were reports of the Yankees and Mickey Mantle taking amphetamine pills to get energized before games in the 50s. Steroids was used legally in the late 50s and early 60s for track stars. There's no reason for me to believe that steroids we, and have been used by at least 50% of professional athletes starting back in those days.

Again we are not dealing with steroids in the context of let's take this all the time so we can get huge. I'm talking about taking it in smaller doses or during crucial parts of the season so that your muscles aren't sore during games and your energy levels are way up. It's been rampant in the NFL since the beginning. Why would it take 30 years to get to the MLB?


and Cham; thank you sir. To your credit I initially thought you were around 25 by most of what you argued. And my friends call me Peter. Pete. Petey. Big Pete (I was 5'11 250 lbs in grade 8).
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Halu Sination on September 11, 2010, 03:07:41 PM
I'm not saying James Loney is even an average player though, I really don't even want him on the team.  My point with Loney is that he's one of dozens of players every year that are on top of scouts lists as pitchers and hitters but only get to do one.  Even with the 95+ and HR power example, a team would rather see the player concentrate on one thing to maximize the talent.  


I agree with that. Ruth was brought up as a pitcher. His one recorded year in the minors was pretty average for a hitter. It was while he was in Boston where someone saw him, I guess during practice, slug the fuck out of the ball. In 1915 with 92 ABs Ruth had 4 HRs. Broggo Roth lead the league with 7 HRs that year and he had over 350 ABs. The Sox knew that as a batting pitcher he was top notch and after a while they gave him a full batting schedule. New York saw what he did and said that's our guy.

What happened to Ruth could happen today. If an NL pitcher with under 100 ABs was tied for 3rd in HRs and bat over 300 that team would look to switch him over. At the very least rotate him.

The only difference is Adam Wainwright has to face a fresh pitcher; not a guy in his 16th inning of work in the second game of a double header lol.

So that means when Ruth was throwing 23 win seasons with 41 CGs with a 1.75 ERA and 9 shut out games a years he was really just throwing 18 straight innings a day? Shit, he must have been the best pitcher ever.

I don't get you. I really don't. When Ruth smashes HRs he does so because the pitchers back then sucked. And when he has blow away knock out pitching seasons he does so because the batters back then sucked. So the MLB in the teens and 20s was just one big high school league and Babe Ruth was the only guy that would have make the league in the modern game, and if he tries really hard he might get to start a game or two.

No, what are you talking about? You get me lol.


I'll never get you, but I will envy you for the next 4 years, but I'd kill to re-do 18-22 in my life. Enjoy these years my friend. Because you never get them back, but you spend a lot of years thinking about them.

True words, man I miss being 18-22, it was the funniest times, with the best girls.

Lol real talk. I'm only 22 right now (just recently graduated college) and I'm actually in a pretty good place in my life, and yet even I would love to go back and re-do a small handful of things from within just one year ago. Sometimes you wonder if "pretty good place" could have been a "really good place."

And yea, the college bitches were a definite plus too haha. Speaking of which, I know American pop culture leads us to believe that these are the best bitches, but do they really not get better from here on up? I always thought that it was my own assumption and personal taste that made me chase the young tail, but if there really is no improvement as we get older, that's actually kind of depressing to know lol.

Back on topic, Bonds on steroids is the best player of all-time IMO, championship or not.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 11, 2010, 04:20:49 PM

Lol real talk. I'm only 22 right now (just recently graduated college) and I'm actually in a pretty good place in my life, and yet even I would love to go back and re-do a small handful of things from within just one year ago. Sometimes you wonder if "pretty good place" could have been a "really good place."

And yea, the college bitches were a definite plus too haha. Speaking of which, I know American pop culture leads us to believe that these are the best bitches, but do they really not get better from here on up? I always thought that it was my own assumption and personal taste that made me chase the young tail, but if there really is no improvement as we get older, that's actually kind of depressing to know lol.



I feel for you. I really do. It's all over and you don't even know it yet. It doesn't punch you in the face until that horrid 25th birthday, and until then you can still stretch out what you got going on now, but at 25 you'll see that pre-23 was where it was at.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Halu Sination on September 11, 2010, 05:03:16 PM

Lol real talk. I'm only 22 right now (just recently graduated college) and I'm actually in a pretty good place in my life, and yet even I would love to go back and re-do a small handful of things from within just one year ago. Sometimes you wonder if "pretty good place" could have been a "really good place."

And yea, the college bitches were a definite plus too haha. Speaking of which, I know American pop culture leads us to believe that these are the best bitches, but do they really not get better from here on up? I always thought that it was my own assumption and personal taste that made me chase the young tail, but if there really is no improvement as we get older, that's actually kind of depressing to know lol.



I feel for you. I really do. It's all over and you don't even know it yet. It doesn't punch you in the face until that horrid 25th birthday, and until then you can still stretch out what you got going on now, but at 25 you'll see that pre-23 was where it was at.

LOL. Damn thats a bitch. Yeah thats something I was beginning to assume myself, especially these past months after I finished college. But on the real, thanks for the advice and the re-assurance. Every now and then I need a reminder to live every second like it's your last, I really don't want to wake up one day and just say "what the fuck have I been doing."
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: Shallow on September 11, 2010, 08:48:51 PM
I really don't want to wake up one day and just say "what the fuck have I been doing."


I wish I knew that at 22, because I definitely woke up to that feeling. It really hit home this 2010 New Year when I really thought about what I've done this past decade. Just have as much fun as you can. That's my advice. And anything you're worried about doing for silly reasons. Just do it anyway.
Title: Re: Baseball misses Barry Bonds
Post by: white Boy on September 15, 2010, 09:38:31 PM
yea, i try not to think about my age, 24, cause i really have been dicking around for so fucking long, and im still not sure what i want to do, and how i want to do it, when i look around at some people my age and younger takin care of business, im like damn, however, i can honestly say for the past couple years i have not lacked in the fun department, but yea, getting old sucks, i try not to think about it.