West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on September 16, 2010, 05:46:12 AM
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let's b real here
....there's really nothin in between. either u a great rapper/lyricist or.... a simplistic and "swaggtastic" charisma-rapper with "presence", that knows how to create songs..
lyricists does generally not know how to create "songs". their area - is straight lyrics, on hardcore beats.. raw lyrics. mixtapes and all that type of shit.. can you imagine Chino XL or GZA/Genius on a Neptunes or Timbaland-production? :-\
so whats ur flavor? "good music", that is easy to digest...
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good ol' rap.. lyrics
or do u combine both in ur gumbopot, like me? a lil' bit of both..
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I disagree with everything you are saying. What defines a great rapper is the greatness of the music they have released. As far as what a lyricist is, if you can't make good songs then you aren't a good lyricist. Don't forget the term "lyric" is in lyricist. Lyrics = the words to a song. Why do so many people forget about the musical aspect when they talk about what a lyricist is?
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Depends on my mood.
Sometimes I'll want to listen to great music, with a beat that fits the words being spit, sometimes I just want to hear freestyles & sometimes I just want to kick back and listen to a Lil' Wayne song that's all laid back & swaggerful.
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A great rapper can make great music, but great music can't make a rapper great. You need both in order to have a great song. This is why rappers like Charles Hamilton, T.I., Chamillionaire, Nick Cannon and Juelz Santana will never make a great song.
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I like a little bit of in between, I like when it's real lyrics or real substance, but it sounds good. Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.
But once in awhile they do pump one out, and that's the kinda song that stays on my ipod for a long time.
For instance, Papoose, not listening to him, but a small compromise in lyrical ability for a better subject content and overall artistry for making songs gives you Joell Ortiz, which easily gets 20x more spins from me.
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hard to say,cause take leonard roberts for instance,i think he succs as a rapper but he doesn't fucc up beats he's on,i can hear his songs if somebody is playing em and not be offended most of the time, and same thing with group home,i think they first album is dope as fucc,but overall the lyrics was shitty but i still dug it and wouldn't want to hear no other group over those beats, guess i'll lean toward great music yell
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Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.
What is your definition of a straight lyricist? How can a rapper be a great lyricist if they can't even conceive of good songs?
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Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.
What is your definition of a straight lyricist? How can a rapper be a great lyricist if they can't even conceive of good songs?
Do you want to discuss Rick Ross? Speedin is a good song. Is it lyrical? No.
Do you want to discuss 50 Cent? In Da Club is a good song. Is it lyrical? No.
Do you want to discuss TI? Asap is a good song. Is it lyrical? No.
Do you see my definition now? To me lyricism is punchlines and storylines. Something that a person like Joe Budden excels at. But on the other hand, his delivery can be stale and uninspiring, which is another big part of a good song.
On the other hand, Method Man's punchlines and storylines may not be as strong, but his delivery creates such an energy on a track that you don't notice the shortcoming.
Remember, lyrics (writing) is only one part of a song. You still have other elements like bring the lyrics to life with good charismatic vocals, a good beat selection, and good mixing of the over-all song.
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Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.
What is your definition of a straight lyricist? How can a rapper be a great lyricist if they can't even conceive of good songs?
song-creation doesn't have ANYTHING to do wit the artists lyrical abilities... you're confused, homie.. very, very confused.. some of the worst artists in the world, are the best lyricists..
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I could make some of the dopest lyrics of all time, but if I came out spitting it uninspired sounding offbeat and shit, it's gonna be a whack song.
The hook is a big part of a good song. So if I make a really dope hook am I a great lyricist? No. The lyrics could be just about anything (as noted in most mainstream song) and if I can create a dope melody for it, it's gonna sound decent. THAT is being a good artist/rapper.
That's why I hate when ppl whine about seeing these pop and rnb peeps showing up on their fav rappers album. When in fact they gonna do a better job than the rapper would have, and make it a better song. Which is what we all want. 2Pac knew this shit, that's why he had all them RnB dudes on his hooks.
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Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.
What is your definition of a straight lyricist? How can a rapper be a great lyricist if they can't even conceive of good songs?
Do you want to discuss Rick Ross? Speedin is a good song. Is it lyrical? No.
Do you want to discuss 50 Cent? In Da Club is a good song. Is it lyrical? No.
Do you want to discuss TI? Asap is a good song. Is it lyrical? No.
Do you see my definition now? To me lyricism is punchlines and storylines. Something that a person like Joe Budden excels at. But on the other hand, his delivery can be stale and uninspiring, which is another big part of a good song.
On the other hand, Method Man's punchlines and storylines may not be as strong, but his delivery creates such an energy on a track that you don't notice the shortcoming.
Remember, lyrics (writing) is only one part of a song. You still have other elements like bring the lyrics to life with good charismatic vocals, a good beat selection, and good mixing of the over-all song.
I would have to disagree with you that those are all good songs. And In Da Club is exactly what it is...a good party song. There's a pretty obvious difference between that and oh say this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGGez0CObXs
I have said this time and time again. Punchlines don't make something lyrical. Punchlines are nothing more than jokes told through rhyme. Hell, punchlines don't even really exist outside of rap, so how can you use that to define what is lyrical when rap is only one out of many music genres which rely on lyrics?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lyrical
Punchlines CAN contribute to something being lyrical. But its not based on the punchlines themselves but whether they actually contribute to the AFFECT of the song. IE a random freestyle that says nothing is not lyrical.
As far as Budden vs. Meth, I guess you could argue either way since both have released meaningful music. But you seem to be going about this lyricist thing the wrong way. Just wanted to clear that up.
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musc? where's the I?
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This is why rappers like T.I. will never make a great song.
people that say this have clearly never heard a ti album. so what if he made some shit singles? he mad mad cash off them and he has proven time and time again he can do great punchline/storytelling/whatever kinda raps people consider 'lyrical'
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Both. I definitely want great music and it is convenient if it comes from the same source :) That's why I don't like how much of mainstream is based off making your album around one dope single as opposed to an album full of great singles!
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This is why rappers like Charles Hamilton, T.I., Chamillionaire, Nick Cannon and Juelz Santana will never make a great song.
In your opinion.
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This is why rappers like T.I. will never make a great song.
people that say this have clearly never heard a ti album. so what if he made some shit singles? he mad mad cash off them and he has proven time and time again he can do great punchline/storytelling/whatever kinda raps people consider 'lyrical'
So T.I. has made amazing songs & Joe Budden can't? People's credibility on this board has gone down the drain.
LOL, c'mon son. Show me any T.I. song you want & I'll post a Budden song that is miles ahead of it. T.I. can make "entertaining music", but nothing that rocks the brain. I'll take Joe Budden off pure lyrics & "shitty flow & delivery" over T.I. rapping off pure charisma lol.
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Usually with str8 lyricists, they have a hard trouble forming the idea of a song, with a hook and all that.
What is your definition of a straight lyricist? How can a rapper be a great lyricist if they can't even conceive of good songs?
Do you want to discuss Rick Ross? Speedin is a good song. Is it lyrical? No.
Do you want to discuss 50 Cent? In Da Club is a good song. Is it lyrical? No.
Do you want to discuss TI? Asap is a good song. Is it lyrical? No.
Do you see my definition now? To me lyricism is punchlines and storylines. Something that a person like Joe Budden excels at. But on the other hand, his delivery can be stale and uninspiring, which is another big part of a good song.
On the other hand, Method Man's punchlines and storylines may not be as strong, but his delivery creates such an energy on a track that you don't notice the shortcoming.
Remember, lyrics (writing) is only one part of a song. You still have other elements like bring the lyrics to life with good charismatic vocals, a good beat selection, and good mixing of the over-all song.
I would have to disagree with you that those are all good songs. And In Da Club is exactly what it is...a good party song. There's a pretty obvious difference between that and oh say this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGGez0CObXs
I have said this time and time again. Punchlines don't make something lyrical. Punchlines are nothing more than jokes told through rhyme. Hell, punchlines don't even really exist outside of rap, so how can you use that to define what is lyrical when rap is only one out of many music genres which rely on lyrics?
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/lyrical
Punchlines CAN contribute to something being lyrical. But its not based on the punchlines themselves but whether they actually contribute to the AFFECT of the song. IE a random freestyle that says nothing is not lyrical.
As far as Budden vs. Meth, I guess you could argue either way since both have released meaningful music. But you seem to be going about this lyricist thing the wrong way. Just wanted to clear that up.
Punchlines do make something lyrical. I suggest you start listening to the punchlines and take notice of artists that have actual clever and intelligent ones. They are more lyrical than the weak sauce ones.
You can't argue Budden vs Meth. Budden is light years ahead of Meth as a writer. Meth is the better rapper tho. You get Budden to ghostwrite for Meth and Meth is twice as good as he woulda been.
The ability to create a good song has nothing to do with being lyrical, it has to do with being a good musician. This is evident in Rock music, where the lyrics are very generic but the melodies and actual vocals make the song good. Sometimes it's better to be vague and not as "wordy" in a song. You don't need to be lyrical to make it work.
Otherwise it would be ppl like Budden, Papoose, Murda Mook, etc. in the mainstream right now. But it's not just what you write, ppl want beats, delivery, production, subject content.
And btw Meth had like one of these typa songs on every album, which might be 1 more than 50 puts on his albums, but still isn't sufficient to suggest Meth put out a gang of meaningful shit. (subject content has nothing to do with lyrical ability either)
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And why do you keep pasting that definition? Being lyrical in Hip-Hop is different than what they defined there.
Enthusiastic? Lil B is that in his songs.
Expressing deep emotion? Kanye does that shit too.
They ain't lyrical.
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I prefer great music. IMO there is no such thing as a great rapper, a rapper can have a lot of qualities but he/she'll always be missing that one thing that can be found in another rapper who is missing something themselves. Like how Drake has a great singing voice and beats but is missing the flow and subject matter that J. Cole has.
Plus a majority of the time I couldn't give a fuck about the people who make the music, so long as the music itself is released.
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This is why rappers like T.I. will never make a great song.
people that say this have clearly never heard a ti album. so what if he made some shit singles? he mad mad cash off them and he has proven time and time again he can do great punchline/storytelling/whatever kinda raps people consider 'lyrical'
So T.I. has made amazing songs & Joe Budden can't? People's credibility on this board has gone down the drain.
LOL, c'mon son. Show me any T.I. song you want & I'll post a Budden song that is miles ahead of it. T.I. can make "entertaining music", but nothing that rocks the brain. I'll take Joe Budden off pure lyrics & "shitty flow & delivery" over T.I. rapping off pure charisma lol.
dude shut the fuck up, i have nothing to prove to you. you are a lame ass joe budden stan that brings him into conversation in every thread. JOE BEEZY GOT BARS FOR DAYS LEMME PROVE HOW HE BETTER THAN ANY RAPPER OUT THERE = you in every thread
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This is why rappers like T.I. will never make a great song.
people that say this have clearly never heard a ti album. so what if he made some shit singles? he mad mad cash off them and he has proven time and time again he can do great punchline/storytelling/whatever kinda raps people consider 'lyrical'
Dude made his best songs with Mannie Fresh. That's no coincidence.
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blah blah blah i care about big words im a backpacker
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blah blah blah i care about big words im a backpacker
You're Australian?
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This is why rappers like T.I. will never make a great song.
people that say this have clearly never heard a ti album. so what if he made some shit singles? he mad mad cash off them and he has proven time and time again he can do great punchline/storytelling/whatever kinda raps people consider 'lyrical'
So T.I. has made amazing songs & Joe Budden can't? People's credibility on this board has gone down the drain.
LOL, c'mon son. Show me any T.I. song you want & I'll post a Budden song that is miles ahead of it. T.I. can make "entertaining music", but nothing that rocks the brain. I'll take Joe Budden off pure lyrics & "shitty flow & delivery" over T.I. rapping off pure charisma lol.
dude shut the fuck up, i have nothing to prove to you. you are a lame ass joe budden stan that brings him into conversation in every thread. JOE BEEZY GOT BARS FOR DAYS LEMME PROVE HOW HE BETTER THAN ANY RAPPER OUT THERE = you in every thread
LOL, way to look like you just got shut down by dodging my point. Take the quick L, fam.
Post the great T.I. song, Mau called him out on it too. You're replies have been straight up immature lmfao.
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Great music otherwise I might as well just listen to spoken words.
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Punchlines do make something lyrical. I suggest you start listening to the punchlines and take notice of artists that have actual clever and intelligent ones. They are more lyrical than the weak sauce ones.
Not at all. Again, they are just jokes, why would that in itself a rhyme lyrical? And they are practically nonexistant outside of hip hop. Being a lyricist is the same idea, whether its hip hop or any other genre.
Btw, just out of curiosity. Would you define a rapper like Nas as a great lyricist? He barely even uses punchlines and sometimes his words don't even rhyme. But yet he's considered one of rap's premier lyricists by many people. What about Chuck D?
You can't argue Budden vs Meth. Budden is light years ahead of Meth as a writer. Meth is the better rapper tho. You get Budden to ghostwrite for Meth and Meth is twice as good as he woulda been.
LMAO. You lose major credibility with this assertion.
The ability to create a good song has nothing to do with being lyrical, it has to do with being a good musician. This is evident in Rock music, where the lyrics are very generic but the melodies and actual vocals make the song good. Sometimes it's better to be vague and not as "wordy" in a song. You don't need to be lyrical to make it work.
You clearly don't know the meaning of the word lyricist. Its a SONG. This is MUSIC we are listening to. Punchlines by themselves do not make something lyrical. Its whether they contribute to the purpose of the song that makes it lyrical. And I have to laugh at someone who calls rock music generic. With that statement I would be very surprised if you even listen to any genres outside of rap.
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You can't argue Budden vs Meth. Budden is light years ahead of Meth as a writer. Meth is the better rapper tho. You get Budden to ghostwrite for Meth and Meth is twice as good as he woulda been.
LMAO. You lose major credibility with this assertion.
What's your favorite lyrical Method Man song?
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Punchlines do make something lyrical. I suggest you start listening to the punchlines and take notice of artists that have actual clever and intelligent ones. They are more lyrical than the weak sauce ones.
Not at all. Again, they are just jokes, why would that in itself a rhyme lyrical? And they are practically nonexistant outside of hip hop. Being a lyricist is the same idea, whether its hip hop or any other genre.
Btw, just out of curiosity. Would you define a rapper like Nas as a great lyricist? He barely even uses punchlines and sometimes his words don't even rhyme. But yet he's considered one of rap's premier lyricists by many people. What about Chuck D?
You can't argue Budden vs Meth. Budden is light years ahead of Meth as a writer. Meth is the better rapper tho. You get Budden to ghostwrite for Meth and Meth is twice as good as he woulda been.
LMAO. You lose major credibility with this assertion.
The ability to create a good song has nothing to do with being lyrical, it has to do with being a good musician. This is evident in Rock music, where the lyrics are very generic but the melodies and actual vocals make the song good. Sometimes it's better to be vague and not as "wordy" in a song. You don't need to be lyrical to make it work.
You clearly don't know the meaning of the word lyricist. Its a SONG. This is MUSIC we are listening to. Punchlines by themselves do not make something lyrical. Its whether they contribute to the purpose of the song that makes it lyrical. And I have to laugh at someone who calls rock music generic. With that statement I would be very surprised if you even listen to any genres outside of rap.
1) Do you think punchlines are just jokes? Do you know what a simile or metaphor is? Double entendre? They don't have to portray something funny to be a punchline..
2) Nas is a great poet, artist. He is semi-lyrical with good subject content. He ranks above Method Man all day long. Better than Joe as an artist and rapper, but not as lyrical, no.
3) I listen to more Rock than you guaranteed, I AM WHITE. I grew up on that shit gtfo. Listening to Brandon Boyd right now matter of fact, LOL.
4) Great music doesn't have to be lyrical, when will you get this through your head?
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You can't argue Budden vs Meth. Budden is light years ahead of Meth as a writer. Meth is the better rapper tho. You get Budden to ghostwrite for Meth and Meth is twice as good as he woulda been.
LMAO. You lose major credibility with this assertion.
And stating that I lose credibility with an assertion does nothing to add to our discussion, you already obviously don't think I am credible, and I don't give a fuck if you do. So keep on track of our subject and argue as to why you think Method Man's writing is better than Joe Buddens.
First rule of Debate: Don't get personal.
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This is why rappers like T.I. will never make a great song.
people that say this have clearly never heard a ti album. so what if he made some shit singles? he mad mad cash off them and he has proven time and time again he can do great punchline/storytelling/whatever kinda raps people consider 'lyrical'
So T.I. has made amazing songs & Joe Budden can't? People's credibility on this board has gone down the drain.
LOL, c'mon son. Show me any T.I. song you want & I'll post a Budden song that is miles ahead of it. T.I. can make "entertaining music", but nothing that rocks the brain. I'll take Joe Budden off pure lyrics & "shitty flow & delivery" over T.I. rapping off pure charisma lol.
dude shut the fuck up, i have nothing to prove to you. you are a lame ass joe budden stan that brings him into conversation in every thread. JOE BEEZY GOT BARS FOR DAYS LEMME PROVE HOW HE BETTER THAN ANY RAPPER OUT THERE = you in every thread
LOL, way to look like you just got shut down by dodging my point. Take the quick L, fam.
Post the great T.I. song, Mau called him out on it too. You're replies have been straight up immature lmfao.
no matter what song i pull u are gonna post up some lame wordy joe budden rap and say it is better because it has big words and you think its deep. im not fuckin interested. this thread aint got shit to do with budden. you need to really take a look at yourself cham. are u really so badly on joes dick that you have to talk about him every day? you cant even stop yourself now, coming into a random threads talkin about joe. hopin, wishin, prayin that maybe one day he'll notice u, that one day he'll slip you the slice of joe dick that you so desperately desire. you and that jules character really need to examine why you feel the need to talk about him constantly, come to terms with these feelings, and move on with your lives, because joe doesnt love you, and he never will.
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This is why rappers like T.I. will never make a great song.
people that say this have clearly never heard a ti album. so what if he made some shit singles? he mad mad cash off them and he has proven time and time again he can do great punchline/storytelling/whatever kinda raps people consider 'lyrical'
So T.I. has made amazing songs & Joe Budden can't? People's credibility on this board has gone down the drain.
LOL, c'mon son. Show me any T.I. song you want & I'll post a Budden song that is miles ahead of it. T.I. can make "entertaining music", but nothing that rocks the brain. I'll take Joe Budden off pure lyrics & "shitty flow & delivery" over T.I. rapping off pure charisma lol.
dude shut the fuck up, i have nothing to prove to you. you are a lame ass joe budden stan that brings him into conversation in every thread. JOE BEEZY GOT BARS FOR DAYS LEMME PROVE HOW HE BETTER THAN ANY RAPPER OUT THERE = you in every thread
LOL, way to look like you just got shut down by dodging my point. Take the quick L, fam.
Post the great T.I. song, Mau called him out on it too. You're replies have been straight up immature lmfao.
no matter what song i pull u are gonna post up some lame wordy joe budden rap and say it is better because it has big words and you think its deep. im not fuckin interested. this thread aint got shit to do with budden. you need to really take a look at yourself cham. are u really so badly on joes dick that you have to talk about him every day? you cant even stop yourself now, coming into a random threads talkin about joe. hopin, wishin, prayin that maybe one day he'll notice u, that one day he'll slip you the slice of joe dick that you so desperately desire. you and that jules character really need to examine why you feel the need to talk about him constantly, come to terms with these feelings, and move on with your lives, because joe doesnt love you, and he never will.
Do you really wanna goto war with me just cuz I have a Budden sig?
I would call you out on the artists you enjoy talking about, but I ain't that shallow. It's a fuckin' forum for Hip-Hop fans, LOL. Get real.
If you want to replace the examples of Joe Budden vs. Method Man with other rappers, I'll still argue the points of lyrics vs overall good song. Those were just quick examples that come to mind.
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This is why rappers like T.I. will never make a great song.
people that say this have clearly never heard a ti album. so what if he made some shit singles? he mad mad cash off them and he has proven time and time again he can do great punchline/storytelling/whatever kinda raps people consider 'lyrical'
So T.I. has made amazing songs & Joe Budden can't? People's credibility on this board has gone down the drain.
LOL, c'mon son. Show me any T.I. song you want & I'll post a Budden song that is miles ahead of it. T.I. can make "entertaining music", but nothing that rocks the brain. I'll take Joe Budden off pure lyrics & "shitty flow & delivery" over T.I. rapping off pure charisma lol.
dude shut the fuck up, i have nothing to prove to you. you are a lame ass joe budden stan that brings him into conversation in every thread. JOE BEEZY GOT BARS FOR DAYS LEMME PROVE HOW HE BETTER THAN ANY RAPPER OUT THERE = you in every thread
LOL, way to look like you just got shut down by dodging my point. Take the quick L, fam.
Post the great T.I. song, Mau called him out on it too. You're replies have been straight up immature lmfao.
no matter what song i pull u are gonna post up some lame wordy joe budden rap and say it is better because it has big words and you think its deep. im not fuckin interested. this thread aint got shit to do with budden. you need to really take a look at yourself cham. are u really so badly on joes dick that you have to talk about him every day? you cant even stop yourself now, coming into a random threads talkin about joe. hopin, wishin, prayin that maybe one day he'll notice u, that one day he'll slip you the slice of joe dick that you so desperately desire. you and that jules character really need to examine why you feel the need to talk about him constantly, come to terms with these feelings, and move on with your lives, because joe doesnt love you, and he never will.
Don't dodge it, I'm still waiting on that T.I. song, man lol.
You can ramble on about your crazy theories all day of what I do, but the fact is, you called him out in another thread & now I'm questioning you on what you said, in this thread.
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great music (beats).
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All the classic albums I can remember had both. I mean there is a laundry list of artists that have not had great production but incredible lyrics and vice versa. But again beats are so subjective at times. I tend to go for lyrics first and foremost but for the most part the first thing you hear on a track is the beat.