West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: The Come Up Shuffle on September 19, 2010, 11:55:58 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch/v/G3gPLGQRU4M
Could you imagine him if he had a real running game instead of new were anythings and UPS drivers. Or if he had receivers that weren't above average receivers that he made great. Look at the video look how quick his fucking release was and how accurate he was. And look at how much contact that went on between receivers and DB's back in the day. If Marino played today where DB's don't get away with nearly as much as they used to. If Marino in his prime played in todays game dude would of thrown for 6000 and 60 TD's
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For whatever reason the embedded video isn't working for me so here is the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3gPLGQRU4M
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eli manning has more superbowl victories :D
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eli manning has more superbowl victories :D
Eh, his brother is the only person I could see that could be compared to Marino. Joe Montana too.
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eli manning has more superbowl victories :D
Eh, his brother is the only person I could see that could be compared to Marino. Joe Montana too.
my top QBs of all time
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Peyton Manning
Johnny Unitas
Brett Favre
Dan Marino
John Elway
Bart Starr
Tom Brady (die!)
Terry Bradshaw (took steroids so he gets a downgrade)
Steve Young in his prime mayb e #1 but sadly he didn't start playing until age 29 so he didn't crack my top 10
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eli manning has more superbowl victories :D
And Doug Williams has an SB MVP. You ESPN talking points disgust me. You give Marino the all around team that Gmen were and Marino wins with ease. It's a a known fact that Marino's best teams were above average at best. Yet morons like you fall for the whole a QB's greatness is measured in his superbowls and when he doesn't win it's his fault. Even though football is the ultimate team game. And LMFAO @ Otto Graham and Farve being ahead of Marino. Hack have you ever had an original thought that you didn't hear on ESPN ?
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eli manning has more superbowl victories :D
And Doug Williams has an SB MVP. You ESPN talking points disgust me. You give Marino the all around team that Gmen were and Marino wins with ease. It's a a known fact that Marino's best teams were above average at best. Yet morons like you fall for the whole a QB's greatness is measured in his superbowls and when he doesn't win it's his fault. Even though football is the ultimate team game. And LMFAO @ Otto Graham and Farve being ahead of Marino. Hack have you ever had an original thought that you didn't hear on ESPN ?
ESPN?
First off I listen to Fox Sports (Tony Bruno, Petros and Money, Ben Mahler, Tom Looney etc.) more than ESPN. I watch ESPN for MNF and Yankees games. and PTI when I can catch it.
Second off Mariano had his chance in a superbowl against the underdog 49ers and lost. Then the next year he won the biggest regular season game against the Bears but lost in the playoffs to the Patsies. Dude could have left but never did. His final game he lost 62-7 hahahahaha.
Ofcourse I will say Marino, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton and Jim Kelly are all beter QB's than Doug Williams or Eli Manning.
Otto Graham won 7 championships in like 10 years of playing and Brett Favre has a SB and owns every QB record known to man. I don't really have to defend them any further. It's all interpretation.
What's with the hate? you seem to have caught feelings against me
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eli manning has more superbowl victories :D
And Doug Williams has an SB MVP. You ESPN talking points disgust me. You give Marino the all around team that Gmen were and Marino wins with ease. It's a a known fact that Marino's best teams were above average at best. Yet morons like you fall for the whole a QB's greatness is measured in his superbowls and when he doesn't win it's his fault. Even though football is the ultimate team game. And LMFAO @ Otto Graham and Farve being ahead of Marino. Hack have you ever had an original thought that you didn't hear on ESPN ?
ESPN?
First off I listen to Fox Sports (Tony Bruno, Petros and Money, Ben Mahler, Tom Looney etc.) more than ESPN. I watch ESPN for MNF and Yankees games. and PTI when I can catch it.
Second off Mariano had his chance in a superbowl against the underdog 49ers and lost. Then the next year he won the biggest regular season game against the Bears but lost in the playoffs to the Patsies. Dude could have left but never did. His final game he lost 62-7 hahahahaha.
Ofcourse I will say Marino, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton and Jim Kelly are all beter QB's than Doug Williams or Eli Manning.
Otto Graham won 7 championships in like 10 years of playing and Brett Favre has a SB and owns every QB record known to man. I don't really have to defend them any further. It's all interpretation.
What's with the hate? you seem to have caught feelings against me
Farve has every record because he has played more than any other QB. And here are Otto's career statistics
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrahOt00.htm
Again your argument is, it's Marino's fault he never won a SB yet you ignore the fact he played most of his career on mediocre teams. Even the Super Bowl team on 84 was a good team not a great team. While the QB's you mention had some incredible talent around them that Marino didn't. And football is the ultimate team game yet it's his fault they didn't win. See Hack, most people that know sports ignore the network talking point that it's all on the QB if the team doesn't win. But yet the media continues to perpetuate the myth that it's the QB's fault a team doesn't win because fucking morons such as yourself eat it the fuck up. The best RB Marino ever had was Karim Abdul Jabar who even in his best year is the 2nd back on most teams. And what does Marino's last game have to do with anything? So one horrible game where he was out of his prime and play on two knees shot to hell erases an entire career ? See Hack it' the stupid shit you say that has it that I don't like you. I would nothing more than to beat the ever loving shit out of you.
But hey keep repeating what talking points tell ya
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See Hack the same talking points that you regurgitate everything they say are the same ones that wrote your Jets off after week one. Yet week two the Jets just won and made the Pats look like bitches in the 2nd half.
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See Hack the same talking points that you regurgitate everything they say are the same ones that wrote your Jets off after week one. Yet week two the Jets just won and made the Pats look like bitches in the 2nd half.
I see you have a clear boner for Marino. I chose to dismiss the conversation and sum it up with one link:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_57_The_Marino_mythology.html
oh and how can you rank Marino over Favre? Favre played with some crappy teams too!@!@!@ :D
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hey Tommy is that you? nowonder you love Marino and the Mets...you are a born loser :D
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hey Tommy is that you? nowonder you love Marino and the Mets...you are a born loser :D
At least I'm not going bald or am already bald, for all we know that pic of you could of been from high school which if it was, you're already bald. And aren't you the cat working as a salesmen in a cellphone store lmfao. Ya life is one giant L after another lmfao. The only time you win is being a front runner and latching on to teams that win. Look at you, you're from Red Sox country and became a Yanks fan lmao. You're jump from the Jets and Giants depending on who is better that week. You aren't man enough to stick it through with one team lmfao. I may give Cham shit but at least he sticks it through with the Mets of Football, the Jets. You're a bandwagon fan The only success's in your life come from those other men achieved lmfao. You're entire life is one L after another lmfao. You probably still live in your mother basement lmfao ahahah. Until you grow some hair come try and box with god. C'mon even elior has a full head of hair. You're entire existance revolves around the letter L. You're mother should be beaten for not swallowing you.
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See Hack the same talking points that you regurgitate everything they say are the same ones that wrote your Jets off after week one. Yet week two the Jets just won and made the Pats look like bitches in the 2nd half.
I see you have a clear boner for Marino. I chose to dismiss the conversation and sum it up with one link:
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_57_The_Marino_mythology.html
oh and how can you rank Marino over Favre? Favre played with some crappy teams too!@!@!@ :D
An article written by a Pats fan with an obvious deep seeded hatred for the Phins is your argument ?
Really you're entire existence is a fucking joke
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Hack is wack
But back on topic, yeah Marino was that ninja. Just never had the support.
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Hack is wack
But back on topic, yeah Marino was that ninja. Just never had the support.
lmao dude fails to read the article and says this dumb shit
know who never had the support? Archie Manning
pstommyyourafag#okbye
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And to think the Steelers were about to pick him but passed on it because the Owner didn't feel his son was energetic enough when he said "yeah we should take him". Can you imagine Marino getting to start his career with Noll and end it with Cowher? The Steelers were a team that went to AFC Championship games and Superbowls with Mark Malone and Neil O'Donnel. With Marino they my very well have gotten more rings than the Curtain did.
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Laces out Dan.
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hey Tommy is that you? nowonder you love Marino and the Mets...you are a born loser :D
At least I'm not going bald or am already bald, for all we know that pic of you could of been from high school which if it was, you're already bald. And aren't you the cat working as a salesmen in a cellphone store lmfao. Ya life is one giant L after another lmfao. The only time you win is being a front runner and latching on to teams that win. Look at you, you're from Red Sox country and became a Yanks fan lmao. You're jump from the Jets and Giants depending on who is better that week. You aren't man enough to stick it through with one team lmfao. I may give Cham shit but at least he sticks it through with the Mets of Football, the Jets. You're a bandwagon fan The only success's in your life come from those other men achieved lmfao. You're entire life is one L after another lmfao. You probably still live in your mother basement lmfao ahahah. Until you grow some hair come try and box with god. C'mon even elior has a full head of hair. You're entire existance revolves around the letter L. You're mother should be beaten for not swallowing you.
lol,damn
(http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/12/30/q_bodybag_wideweb__430x319.jpg)
cant front though, dan had zero running game/defensive help and still put up godly numbers. different era when loyalty mattered. a qb of today would have whored himself out to free agency with a quickness. havin said that though:
(http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/steve_young_a.jpg)>>>>>
imagine if he didnt sit behind montana all that time
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Imagine Tampa decided they wanted to keep him. He'd have been at best another Vinny Testaverde. That's why I'm always a little hesitant with Montana. That team was too good. It's hard to judge a QB. Young wasa huge bust before he got there. Then he gets to SF and looks like a hall of famer. What happens to Montana in Tampa?
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I won't say he's without a doubt the best qb ever, but he's maybe my favorite player, at least qb, ever.
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greatest QB is John Elway
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greatest QB is John Elway
Elway wasn't great QB until he got a 2000 yard rusher. Elway is one of the most overrated in NFL history. He was the lovable loser the media shoved down out throats
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greatest QB is John Elway
Elway wasn't great QB until he got a 2000 yard rusher. Elway is one of the most overrated in NFL history. He was the lovable loser the media shoved down out throats
5 superbowl appearances? 3 without Davis against FAR superior teams from the NFC. how many SB's did Dan Marino make without a 2,000 yard rusher again?
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greatest QB is John Elway
Elway wasn't great QB until he got a 2000 yard rusher. Elway is one of the most overrated in NFL history. He was the lovable loser the media shoved down out throats
obviously you dont know what you're talking about.....if anybody is overrated it was marino
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greatest QB is John Elway
Elway wasn't great QB until he got a 2000 yard rusher. Elway is one of the most overrated in NFL history. He was the lovable loser the media shoved down out throats
obviously you dont know what you're talking about.....if anybody is overrated it was marino
+1 another L for Tammy Fitz
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Elway was a fantastic QB. He was much better in the 80s than he was on those 90s SB teams, but those teams were so much better. I never understood what made Elway any better than Kelly. And if not for those last two seasons on that juggernaut team, that would have won just the same with Kelly's talents, he never would have been seen as any better than Kelly. Of course Kelly is also amazing.
Yeah Denver never had a 2000 yard runner in those days, but Elways never cracked 4000 yards or 20 TDs either. In the same era Marino was pushing 5000 and 50 TDs and passing it. The Broncos were a solid team in the 80s with a solid and sound defense and a great coach in Dan Reeves.
Marino had two coaches past their expiry date when he played, a lackluster D, no real run game. It was a team based on his ability more than anything else. And like I've said for a while now; QBs don't win games. They can help, but that's it.
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fuck dan reeves...if mike shanahan was the coach back then as well elway's stats would have been a lot better.....& elway never cracked 4000 yards passing... 1993 stats 4,030 yards passing 25 tds 10 ints. im not trying to take anything away from marino are any other QBs
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Elway was a fantastic QB. He was much better in the 80s than he was on those 90s SB teams, but those teams were so much better. I never understood what made Elway any better than Kelly. And if not for those last two seasons on that juggernaut team, that would have won just the same with Kelly's talents, he never would have been seen as any better than Kelly. Of course Kelly is also amazing.
Yeah Denver never had a 2000 yard runner in those days, but Elways never cracked 4000 yards or 20 TDs either. In the same era Marino was pushing 5000 and 50 TDs and passing it. The Broncos were a solid team in the 80s with a solid and sound defense and a great coach in Dan Reeves.
Marino had two coaches past their expiry date when he played, a lackluster D, no real run game. It was a team based on his ability more than anything else. And like I've said for a while now; QBs don't win games. They can help, but that's it.
Maybe most overrated was a bit harsh on my part but Shallow sums in up nicely. Except I would say Denvers defense in the 80's was much better than solid. He was a great leader but not tht great a passer. His touchdown to interception ratio leaves a lot to be desired.
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greatest QB is John Elway
Elway wasn't great QB until he got a 2000 yard rusher. Elway is one of the most overrated in NFL history. He was the lovable loser the media shoved down out throats
obviously you dont know what you're talking about.....if anybody is overrated it was marino
+1 another L for Tammy Fitz
How is it an L ? Because I am smart enough to realize the whole a QB's greatness is measured by the SB's he won is a bunch of BS created by the media ? Because I am smart enough to realize football is the ultimate team game and no one man can carry a team to a Super Bowl victory single handed ? And Hack if anyone shouldn't be telling me I took another L, it's you. Hack, I have a full head of hair while you're hairline is leaning back.
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marino had 1,108 more passing attempts than elway of course he's gonna have more yards & tds than elway. lets bring up rushing stats elway 3407 yards rushing 33 tds.... marino 87 yards rushing 9 tds.... i would rather have a qb that can thow & run
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G.O.A.T
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a110/llimpalass/09000d5d808738af_gallery_600.jpg)
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marino had 1,108 more passing attempts than elway of course he's gonna have more yards & tds than elway. lets bring up rushing stats elway 3407 yards rushing 33 tds.... marino 87 yards rushing 9 tds.... i would rather have a qb that can thow & run
I'll give Elway that, he was a much better scramber than Marino. But Dan's QB rating was higher and his TD to INT ratio shits all over Elways. Elway was a good QB that became great when TD came along. Marino was a geat QB without a running game or star receiver. Before the two super bowls, Elway was the lovable loser. Even the Simpsons made fun of him on two occasions.
Bill Walsh said ti best when comparing Montana and Marino.... "Joe Montana was the product of a system, Dan Marino WAS a system."
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elway was a great qb long before td came along...denver never had no standout running game before td...td to int ratio...like i said marino had 1,108 more passing attempts than elway! that fuck head dan reeves is why elways stats are not as high....marino had 120 more tds than elway but like i said 1,108 more attempts of course he's gonna have more...im telling you if mike shanahan was his coach back then his stats would shit on marino's
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elway was a great qb long before td came along...denver never had no standout running game before td...td to int ratio...like i said marino had 1,108 more passing attempts than elway! that fuck head dan reeves is why elways stats are not as high....marino had 120 more tds than elway but like i said 1,108 more attempts of course he's gonna have more...im telling you if mike shanahan was his coach back then his stats would shit on marino's
I don't think you understand what TD/INT ration means
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elway was a great qb long before td came along...denver never had no standout running game before td...td to int ratio...like i said marino had 1,108 more passing attempts than elway! that fuck head dan reeves is why elways stats are not as high....marino had 120 more tds than elway but like i said 1,108 more attempts of course he's gonna have more...im telling you if mike shanahan was his coach back then his stats would shit on marino's
I don't think you understand what TD/INT ration means
i understand what you mean but if you're gonna use that stat then you need to say montana is better than marino.....marino 1.67 TD/INT ratio....elway 1.33:1 TD/INT ratio...montana 1.96 TD/INT ratio
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making 3 superbowls > making 1 superbowl
Elway was the better QB. He may not have won a SB until 97 but he was a winner. Similar to Mcnabb's run in Philly....nobody can dare call him a loser.
oh but I forgot, tommy says Dan Marino was playing with 150 pound offensive linemen and armless wide receivers while the other 29 or whatever teams were playing with steroids and normal o-lines.
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fuck dan reeves...if mike shanahan was the coach back then as well elway's stats would have been a lot better.....& elway never cracked 4000 yards passing... 1993 stats 4,030 yards passing 25 tds 10 ints. im not trying to take anything away from marino are any other QBs
Mike Shanahan was there when Elway was in the 80s. He was all but in charge of the offense. And you're bringing up a 90s stat when he wasn't anywhere near the SB. I said the years they were in contention in the 80s his numbers were no where near Marino's. And when he got Shanahan as HC and got Rod Smith, Terrel Davis, Shannon Sharpe and Ed McCaffrey he still didn't crack 4000 and barely cracked 25. In his 12 starts in 98 he had 22 TDs 2800 yards and 10 Ints. In his 4 starts on that same team the back up Bubby Brister had about 1000 yards, 10 TDs , and 3 INTs. Which mathematically would have gotten him 3900 yards, 40 TDs, and 12 INTs if he finished up. Hypothetically of course.
No one shits on Marino's prime numbers. EVER!!!!!!!!! To say the 80s Elways with Shanahan as head coach, (when Shanahan was OC anyway), would shit on 5084 yards and 48 TDs, or 4700 yards and 44 TDs is just absurd. Name me one QB today with TWO seasons of near 5000 yards and over 40 TDs.
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fuck dan reeves...if mike shanahan was the coach back then as well elway's stats would have been a lot better.....& elway never cracked 4000 yards passing... 1993 stats 4,030 yards passing 25 tds 10 ints. im not trying to take anything away from marino are any other QBs
Mike Shanahan was there when Elway was in the 80s. He was all but in charge of the offense. And you're bringing up a 90s stat when he wasn't anywhere near the SB. I said the years they were in contention in the 80s his numbers were no where near Marino's. And when he got Shanahan as HC and got Rod Smith, Terrel Davis, Shannon Sharpe and Ed McCaffrey he still didn't crack 4000 and barely cracked 25. In his 12 starts in 98 he had 22 TDs 2800 yards and 10 Ints. In his 4 starts on that same team the back up Bubby Brister had about 1000 yards, 10 TDs , and 3 INTs. Which mathematically would have gotten him 3900 yards, 40 TDs, and 12 INTs if he finished up. Hypothetically of course.
No one shits on Marino's prime numbers. EVER!!!!!!!!! To say the 80s Elways with Shanahan as head coach, (when Shanahan was OC anyway), would shit on 5084 yards and 48 TDs, or 4700 yards and 44 TDs is just absurd. Name me one QB today with TWO seasons of near 5000 yards and over 40 TDs.
he never said they'd shit on MArino's stats.
Marino's stats are great....but at the end of the day Drew Brees didn't care about his 5,000 yard season because he was 8-8. Marino's ENITRE CAREER must feel that way.
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i'll put a end to this in my opinion elway is the g.o.a.t no stats or anything you say will change my mind on that...you guys like marino thats fine i'm not taking anything away from him its just a matter of opinions
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making 3 superbowls > making 1 superbowl
Elway was the better QB. He may not have won a SB until 97 but he was a winner. Similar to Mcnabb's run in Philly....nobody can dare call him a loser.
oh but I forgot, tommy says Dan Marino was playing with 150 pound offensive linemen and armless wide receivers while the other 29 or whatever teams were playing with steroids and normal o-lines.
Again Hack repeats what ESPN tells him and he can't come up with a legit argument so he has to resort to hyperbole to try and stay in the discussion. Elway had better teams than Marino, Elway is not the better QB. By your reasoning Doug Williams is better than Marino ? Jim Kelly is better than Marino ? Does being a fucking moron and being bald have some sought of correlation Hack because you are the baldest muthafucka I know and the dumbest as well.
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fuck dan reeves...if mike shanahan was the coach back then as well elway's stats would have been a lot better.....& elway never cracked 4000 yards passing... 1993 stats 4,030 yards passing 25 tds 10 ints. im not trying to take anything away from marino are any other QBs
Mike Shanahan was there when Elway was in the 80s. He was all but in charge of the offense. And you're bringing up a 90s stat when he wasn't anywhere near the SB. I said the years they were in contention in the 80s his numbers were no where near Marino's. And when he got Shanahan as HC and got Rod Smith, Terrel Davis, Shannon Sharpe and Ed McCaffrey he still didn't crack 4000 and barely cracked 25. In his 12 starts in 98 he had 22 TDs 2800 yards and 10 Ints. In his 4 starts on that same team the back up Bubby Brister had about 1000 yards, 10 TDs , and 3 INTs. Which mathematically would have gotten him 3900 yards, 40 TDs, and 12 INTs if he finished up. Hypothetically of course.
No one shits on Marino's prime numbers. EVER!!!!!!!!! To say the 80s Elways with Shanahan as head coach, (when Shanahan was OC anyway), would shit on 5084 yards and 48 TDs, or 4700 yards and 44 TDs is just absurd. Name me one QB today with TWO seasons of near 5000 yards and over 40 TDs.
he never said they'd shit on MArino's stats.
Marino's stats are great....but at the end of the day Drew Brees didn't care about his 5,000 yard season because he was 8-8. Marino's ENITRE CAREER must feel that way.
And how great was Drew Brees before his team became better than him? No Greg Williams, no SB ring. No Sean Payton and Drew Brees is sitting at home right now with Jeff Garcia.
Brees is a perfect example of what a team and a system means to a QB. He was run of the mill borderline great in small glimpses but that's it. Now he's top 3 because his team got better.
People like you are what's wrong with the NFL.
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^I don't know about you, but I thought Brees has been in the top three QBs in the league for quite some time now.
He's been putting up some monsterous numbers for years now.
I mean, his stats have gotten progressively better with his team getting better over the years, but he's been in my top three since like '06 lol.
And what I don't get is that you keep saying that QB's can't win games by themselves, so does that mean every successful QB that plays by a system (because according to you that's the ONLY way you're going to win) can't be considered great? A QB basically has to enter the league, praying that his team sucks, so he never wins a Superbowl, which is something I'd say most people strive to do (win a SB); so this way he looks like some rouge warrior who does shit by himself so he can be considered one of the best.
I'm not saying Marino isn't one of the best. Easily in the top three all-time, but to say Marino > Montana or Marino > Elway because of what team they were on is stupid. You understand all you're basically doing is judging by "if", "could", "should", "would". "If Montana or Elway were on the Dolphins they wouldn't have nearly as good numbers." That's an impossible argument lol. Arguments need proven facts, not just personal, likely biased opinion.
But it's all love, fam. 8)
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fuck dan reeves...if mike shanahan was the coach back then as well elway's stats would have been a lot better.....& elway never cracked 4000 yards passing... 1993 stats 4,030 yards passing 25 tds 10 ints. im not trying to take anything away from marino are any other QBs
Mike Shanahan was there when Elway was in the 80s. He was all but in charge of the offense. And you're bringing up a 90s stat when he wasn't anywhere near the SB. I said the years they were in contention in the 80s his numbers were no where near Marino's. And when he got Shanahan as HC and got Rod Smith, Terrel Davis, Shannon Sharpe and Ed McCaffrey he still didn't crack 4000 and barely cracked 25. In his 12 starts in 98 he had 22 TDs 2800 yards and 10 Ints. In his 4 starts on that same team the back up Bubby Brister had about 1000 yards, 10 TDs , and 3 INTs. Which mathematically would have gotten him 3900 yards, 40 TDs, and 12 INTs if he finished up. Hypothetically of course.
No one shits on Marino's prime numbers. EVER!!!!!!!!! To say the 80s Elways with Shanahan as head coach, (when Shanahan was OC anyway), would shit on 5084 yards and 48 TDs, or 4700 yards and 44 TDs is just absurd. Name me one QB today with TWO seasons of near 5000 yards and over 40 TDs.
he never said they'd shit on MArino's stats.
Marino's stats are great....but at the end of the day Drew Brees didn't care about his 5,000 yard season because he was 8-8. Marino's ENITRE CAREER must feel that way.
People like you are what's wrong with the NFL.
(http://www.general-anaesthesia.com/images/ether.jpg)
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^I don't know about you, but I thought Brees has been in the top three QBs in the league for quite some time now.
He's been putting up some monsterous numbers for years now.
I mean, his stats have gotten progressively better with his team getting better over the years, but he's been in my top three since like '06 lol.
And what I don't get is that you keep saying that QB's can't win games by themselves, so does that mean every successful QB that plays by a system (because according to you that's the ONLY way you're going to win) can't be considered great? A QB basically has to enter the league, praying that his team sucks, so he never wins a Superbowl, which is something I'd say most people strive to do (win a SB); so this way he looks like some rouge warrior who does shit by himself so he can be considered one of the best.
I'm not saying Marino isn't one of the best. Easily in the top three all-time, but to say Marino > Montana or Marino > Elway because of what team they were on is stupid. You understand all you're basically doing is judging by "if", "could", "should", "would". "If Montana or Elway were on the Dolphins they wouldn't have nearly as good numbers." That's an impossible argument lol. Arguments need proven facts, not just personal, likely biased opinion.
But it's all love, fam. 8)
I'm not trying to say you can't be seen as a great QB unless you do it in a bad system. Marino had a great system, but it was based around his amazing talent. They built the offense around his ability to release the ball in under 3 seconds and throw it in traffic. I can't for the life of me think of another QB before Marino that a system like that was based on. Unitas maybe but the difference with him was the NFL didn't change for him. After Marino teams were looking to use that system and needed "another Marino" to run it. And every couple years they try and prop one up. Peyton might be the only "next Marino that lasted". In recent years guys like Jay Cutler, Matt Ryan, and now Bradford are supposed to be it, but we'll see how it ends up.
Now Favre played in an amazing system his whole career but I have no problem seeing his amazing talents shine through it. The problem I have with Montana is that given his situation I can't see how he didn't have the success he had. A top 3 o-line, a top 3 Defense, a top 1 WR for the last two SBs, and a top 1 OC as head coach. None of that is debatable and none of that has anything to do with Montana making them better. Steve Young showed us what he looked like before and after the same system. Now I can't say at all what Montana would have been like outside the system. I won't even use KC as an example because that was at the end of his career, and after a lot of injury. But based on the performancees I've seen with my own eyes I see Dan Maino make better throws under more pressure than Montana makes under no pressure. And you can substitute Marino with Manning and Montana with Brady for that last statement.
I'm not faulting a QB for being able to sit in the pocket for longer times and have check downs be wide open and go for extra yards. I'm saying I know Peyton can sit untouched and dump the ball off, or throw a lob to Moss. I've never seen Brady have to deal with constant pressure and covered WRs all day and succeed. I've seen him fail miserably in those situations. I've seen Manning get beat up in those same situations, but I look at two similar games; Brady against the Ravens D last year and Peyton against the Steelers D in 05. Same situations. A very agressive D breaking the line and jamming up the WRs, but while Peyton was good enough to adjust and make it a close game, Brady was completely shaken and it was a blowout. That's why I think Peyton is way ahead. Because of what he looks like in the worst of situations.
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eli manning has more superbowl victories :D
Eh, his brother is the only person I could see that could be compared to Marino. Joe Montana too.
my top QBs of all time
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Peyton Manning
Johnny Unitas
Brett Favre
Dan Marino
John Elway
Bart Starr
Tom Brady (die!)
Terry Bradshaw (took steroids so he gets a downgrade)
Steve Young in his prime mayb e #1 but sadly he didn't start playing until age 29 so he didn't crack my top 10
here's my top QB's list:
1 joe montana (the greatest ever, still undefeated in super bowls)
2 tom brady (the 2nd coming of montana kinda)
3 john elway (a true warrior that got his rings finally)
4 johnny unitas (the name says it all)
5 brett farve (70,000 yards, 500 tds & 100% heart)
6 steve young (his numbers were incredible even starting late in his career)
7 terry bradshaw (if he wasn't such a hater he'd be higher on the list)
8 dan marino (great cannon of an arm but not mobile enough)
9 peyton manning (the 2nd coming of marino kinda, except he won a ring lmao)
10 ............................
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eli manning has more superbowl victories :D
Eh, his brother is the only person I could see that could be compared to Marino. Joe Montana too.
my top QBs of all time
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Peyton Manning
Johnny Unitas
Brett Favre
Dan Marino
John Elway
Bart Starr
Tom Brady (die!)
Terry Bradshaw (took steroids so he gets a downgrade)
Steve Young in his prime mayb e #1 but sadly he didn't start playing until age 29 so he didn't crack my top 10
here's my top QB's list:
1 joe montana (the greatest ever, still undefeated in super bowls)
2 tom brady (the 2nd coming of montana kinda)
3 john elway (a true warrior that got his rings finally)
4 johnny unitas (the name says it all)
5 brett farve (70,000 yards, 500 tds & 100% heart)
6 steve young (his numbers were incredible even starting late in his career)
7 terry bradshaw (if he wasn't such a hater he'd be higher on the list)
8 dan marino (great cannon of an arm but not mobile enough)
9 peyton manning (the 2nd coming of marino kinda, except he won a ring lmao)
10 ............................
Steve Young didn't start that late. He just didn't get on a great team until late. If Steve Young is absolute proof that QBs need teams to win and no matter how good you are if you're team isn't as good or better than the QB there is no rings then nothing will. He was on Tampa and he was way worse than Marino was when Marino was on bad teams.
If idiots want to say dismiss Marino against Montana, even when Montana's own coach says otherwise then fine, but to imply that Steve Young was ever better than Dan Marino is a joke. If Marino was on the 9ers there would not have been a Cowboys dynasty. Now if Marino was on the Cowboys they would have had 4 or 5 straight titles.
And Bradshaw? You could have started some of those seasons and the Steelers still would have made the playoffs.
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eli manning has more superbowl victories :D
Eh, his brother is the only person I could see that could be compared to Marino. Joe Montana too.
my top QBs of all time
Otto Graham
Joe Montana
Peyton Manning
Johnny Unitas
Brett Favre
Dan Marino
John Elway
Bart Starr
Tom Brady (die!)
Terry Bradshaw (took steroids so he gets a downgrade)
Steve Young in his prime mayb e #1 but sadly he didn't start playing until age 29 so he didn't crack my top 10
here's my top QB's list:
1 joe montana (the greatest ever, still undefeated in super bowls)
2 tom brady (the 2nd coming of montana kinda)
3 john elway (a true warrior that got his rings finally)
4 johnny unitas (the name says it all)
5 brett farve (70,000 yards, 500 tds & 100% heart)
6 steve young (his numbers were incredible even starting late in his career)
7 terry bradshaw (if he wasn't such a hater he'd be higher on the list)
8 dan marino (great cannon of an arm but not mobile enough)
9 peyton manning (the 2nd coming of marino kinda, except he won a ring lmao)
10 ............................
Steve Young didn't start that late. He just didn't get on a great team until late. If Steve Young is absolute proof that QBs need teams to win and no matter how good you are if you're team isn't as good or better than the QB there is no rings then nothing will. He was on Tampa and he was way worse than Marino was when Marino was on bad teams.
If idiots want to say dismiss Marino against Montana, even when Montana's own coach says otherwise then fine, but to imply that Steve Young was ever better than Dan Marino is a joke. If Marino was on the 9ers there would not have been a Cowboys dynasty. Now if Marino was on the Cowboys they would have had 4 or 5 straight titles.
And Bradshaw? You could have started some of those seasons and the Steelers still would have made the playoffs.
do you need a towel for those cries for agreement & tears, look you have your opinion & preference i have mines...i posted my list, its pretty simple & you're no more right than i am end of story ;)
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do you need a towel for those cries for agreement & tears, look you have your opinion & preference i have mines...i posted my list, its pretty simple & you're no more right than i am end of story ;)
I didn't mean to make it sound personal. It was more a response to anyone that thinks QBs make teams great rather than teams make QBs great. I fully believe that 95% of the QBs on, even my own, top 25 list wouldn't have amounted to shit if they had to play on the same Bucs Steve Young played on.
Now the old time QBs are different because they called the plays on the field with little coaches involvement. But in the new age only the select few work as much as coach as they do QB. Marino was all talent when he was healthy. He didn't need to run, the passing game was never the problem. Manning is his own offense. Put him on San Fran or NYJ, let him run his own offense while Singletary only worries about defense and you'd see a dynasty. He might end up winning more rings as a coach than any other QB did as player. It doesn't hurt that Peyt is just a step behind Dan in raw talent as well. Brett Favre is a wild man cowboy but his instinct and raw abilities carried him through all the bad decisions.
Those are only three QBs I can think of right now that could have played 10 seasons on the 80s Bucs, never make it to the playoffs once, but still shine so bright there is no way you could keep them off a top 25 list. The rest are hit or miss. The only difference between Troy Aikman and Vinnie Testaverde is one got to play with Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys as a pro, and one didn't. Vinnie won't make too many top 25 lists. Troy probably makes almost everybody's.
The 1968 Jets had a defensive captain who called all the defensive plays in SBIII, I think it was Gerry Philbin but I forget now. There were no head sets or DCs on the side dictating how to stop the high powered Colts offense. He stared into the eyes of Earl Morall and Johnny Unitas and defeated them both, and held them to one TD late in the game, and then after that only TD that Unitas lead the drive on, the Colts got an onside kick and wanted to make it 16-14 but dude stopped them dead in their tracks and ended the game 16-7. He called every defensive play, and who gets all the praise? Broadway fucking Joe.
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do you need a towel for those cries for agreement & tears, look you have your opinion & preference i have mines...i posted my list, its pretty simple & you're no more right than i am end of story ;)
I didn't mean to make it sound personal. It was more a response to anyone that thinks QBs make teams great rather than teams make QBs great. I fully believe that 95% of the QBs on, even my own, top 25 list wouldn't have amounted to shit if they had to play on the same Bucs Steve Young played on.
Now the old time QBs are different because they called the plays on the field with little coaches involvement. But in the new age only the select few work as much as coach as they do QB. Marino was all talent when he was healthy. He didn't need to run, the passing game was never the problem. Manning is his own offense. Put him on San Fran or NYJ, let him run his own offense while Singletary only worries about defense and you'd see a dynasty. He might end up winning more rings as a coach than any other QB did as player. It doesn't hurt that Peyt is just a step behind Dan in raw talent as well. Brett Favre is a wild man cowboy but his instinct and raw abilities carried him through all the bad decisions.
Those are only three QBs I can think of right now that could have played 10 seasons on the 80s Bucs, never make it to the playoffs once, but still shine so bright there is no way you could keep them off a top 25 list. The rest are hit or miss. The only difference between Troy Aikman and Vinnie Testaverde is one got to play with Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys as a pro, and one didn't. Vinnie won't make too many top 25 lists. Troy probably makes almost everybody's.
The 1968 Jets had a defensive captain who called all the defensive plays in SBIII, I think it was Gerry Philbin but I forget now. There were no head sets or DCs on the side dictating how to stop the high powered Colts offense. He stared into the eyes of Earl Morall and Johnny Unitas and defeated them both, and held them to one TD late in the game, and then after that only TD that Unitas lead the drive on, the Colts got an onside kick and wanted to make it 16-14 but dude stopped them dead in their tracks and ended the game 16-7. He called every defensive play, and who gets all the praise? Broadway fucking Joe.
i understand your points and agree with some of em but you're forgetting the most important tool a quaterback needs to reach greatness and championships, yes marino, manning ect.. ect.. have pure raw talent & skills but montana, brady & young have the brains over em anyday. to be able to grasp the westcoast offense playbook in full capability & run it as smoothly is more talent in itself.
everyone in life has a destiny, montana, brady, young ect.. ect...were destined to be winners, marino & a few others you mentioned didnt have the teams that montana ect... had but hey that was their destiny..no use in imagining what if they had this or that cause it just wasnt meant for em ;)
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let's continue to act like Super Duper wasn't the man ::)
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do you need a towel for those cries for agreement & tears, look you have your opinion & preference i have mines...i posted my list, its pretty simple & you're no more right than i am end of story ;)
I didn't mean to make it sound personal. It was more a response to anyone that thinks QBs make teams great rather than teams make QBs great. I fully believe that 95% of the QBs on, even my own, top 25 list wouldn't have amounted to shit if they had to play on the same Bucs Steve Young played on.
Now the old time QBs are different because they called the plays on the field with little coaches involvement. But in the new age only the select few work as much as coach as they do QB. Marino was all talent when he was healthy. He didn't need to run, the passing game was never the problem. Manning is his own offense. Put him on San Fran or NYJ, let him run his own offense while Singletary only worries about defense and you'd see a dynasty. He might end up winning more rings as a coach than any other QB did as player. It doesn't hurt that Peyt is just a step behind Dan in raw talent as well. Brett Favre is a wild man cowboy but his instinct and raw abilities carried him through all the bad decisions.
Those are only three QBs I can think of right now that could have played 10 seasons on the 80s Bucs, never make it to the playoffs once, but still shine so bright there is no way you could keep them off a top 25 list. The rest are hit or miss. The only difference between Troy Aikman and Vinnie Testaverde is one got to play with Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys as a pro, and one didn't. Vinnie won't make too many top 25 lists. Troy probably makes almost everybody's.
The 1968 Jets had a defensive captain who called all the defensive plays in SBIII, I think it was Gerry Philbin but I forget now. There were no head sets or DCs on the side dictating how to stop the high powered Colts offense. He stared into the eyes of Earl Morall and Johnny Unitas and defeated them both, and held them to one TD late in the game, and then after that only TD that Unitas lead the drive on, the Colts got an onside kick and wanted to make it 16-14 but dude stopped them dead in their tracks and ended the game 16-7. He called every defensive play, and who gets all the praise? Broadway fucking Joe.
i understand your points and agree with some of em but you're forgetting the most important tool a quaterback needs to reach greatness and championships, yes marino, manning ect.. ect.. have pure raw talent & skills but montana, brady & young have the brains over em anyday. to be able to grasp the westcoast offense playbook in full capability & run it as smoothly is more talent in itself.
everyone in life has a destiny, montana, brady, young ect.. ect...were destined to be winners, marino & a few others you mentioned didnt have the teams that montana ect... had but hey that was their destiny..no use in imagining what if they had this or that cause it just wasnt meant for em ;)
Brady has the brains over Manning? When the Pats were winning those games Brady was told plays from a head set and then read them off an arm band in the huddle and then passed the ball 3 yards out for the WR to go an extra 15 thanks to key blocks. All the while Manning calls his own plays at the line of scrimmage with no huddle and you're saying Brady has more brains?
I've heard and disagreed with the buckle under pressure argument or can't perform as well in the big game and at least I get where those arguments are coming from. I've never heard anyone say Brady is the smarter QB. But whatever, to each their own. He impregnated a Hollywood star, she wouldn't give the kid the last name Brady after he abandoned them, then named the kid after the Jets, and he still managed to keep his image squeaky clean while Vick gets thrown under the bus for killing a few dogs. So, in that regard I guess he is smarter than Manning.
Let me just re-quote Bill Walsh "Montana had a great system. Marino was a system". Walsh built a system around having a limited QB, and in turn made the QB seem limitless. Montana was no better than Ken Anderson, and if Ken had come to the 9ers with Walsh he would have been wearing Joe first two rings. Anderson gets forgotten because he never had the defense or the o-line Joe had.
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hey why don't you fulfull your whining to NIK and kill yourself? you're obviously a bitter peice of shit who cries himself to sleep everynight...with your Jose Reyes shirt on
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hey why don't you fulfull your whining to NIK and kill yourself? you're obviously a bitter peice of shit who cries himself to sleep everynight...with your Jose Reyes shirt on
LMFAO bringing up shit I mentioned 8-9 years ago lmfao. And I openly admitted how depressed I was on the entire board during those years. Keep reaching though Hack lol. And look at you, thread isn't even about Baseball and you can't keep the Mets name out ya mouth.
ps: keep neg repping me as if I care, don't think I didn't notice that :D
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hey why don't you fulfull your whining to NIK and kill yourself? you're obviously a bitter peice of shit who cries himself to sleep everynight...with your Jose Reyes shirt on
LMFAO bringing up shit I mentioned 8-9 years ago lmfao. And I openly admitted how depressed I was on the entire board during those years. Keep reaching though Hack lol. And look at you, thread isn't even about Baseball and you can't keep the Mets name out ya mouth.
ps: keep neg repping me as if I care, don't think I didn't notice that :D
how do i know when someone neg reps me?