West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: Layeth THe Smacketh Down on February 10, 2011, 05:53:29 PM
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This is the Complex version of the making an album shit they do in XXL
http://www.complex.com/music/2011/02/the-making-of-the-games-the-documentary/
Not done reading this shit yet, but so far some thing s I found interesting
Game says the song "Dreams" with Kanye is what made Dre decide to put his album out
Their are five different stories of how Hate It Or Love It came about
Dre originally made the beat for "Higher" for 50 Cent, but 50 said he didn't like it so Game took it
Dre ghost produced hate it or love it
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"Don't Need Your Love" beat was re-created by Dr. Dre because Havoc lost the original files.
Interesting. 8)
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good read, props! 8) 8)
How We Do see's 50 rapping Game's 2nd verse with a few alterations. 8) 8)
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props for posting.
it looks like 50 lied about Westside story
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This was also interesting because it shows a lot of how things work at Aftermath...
like there were doubts about the two singles, so they needed a another sure-fire hit from Timbaland, even though it sounds like the other tracks were done
So maybe that's like Detox - he's done the regular album tracks, he just needed to tag on a few obvious hits
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This was also interesting because it shows a lot of how things work at Aftermath...
like there were doubts about the two singles, so they needed a another sure-fire hit from Timbaland, even though it sounds like the other tracks were done
So maybe that's like Detox - he's done the regular album tracks, he just needed to tag on a few obvious hits
but even the album sound got changed a few times
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not finished reading this yet, but there's already a number of conflicting versions of events
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This was also interesting because it shows a lot of how things work at Aftermath...
like there were doubts about the two singles, so they needed a another sure-fire hit from Timbaland, even though it sounds like the other tracks were done
So maybe that's like Detox - he's done the regular album tracks, he just needed to tag on a few obvious hits
but even the album sound got changed a few times
True, I'm hoping though there are some really dope tracks still, and he's just tacking on the hit singles as like a bait for today's kids...
If he's made it ALL sound like INAD, then all is lost... ALL IS LOST I TELL YOU
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I may be mistaken, but there's nothing to buy or sell about this question.
Lyric wise? "The Documentary" was NOT a good album lyric-wise, The Game's topics were made up of name dropping and talking about how he's bringing the West Coast back. How are you going to bring the West Coast back if you're too busy name dropping guys from the past? I'd rate the lyrics a 2.5/5 or 3/5.
Beat wise? The production was spot on, thank God. If it weren't for the production, this album would have ended up like his other albums (decent or trash). 4.5/5.
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of course game and 50 try to downplay each others involvement in theyre songs togther, tend to not believe game tho...sha money sounds like he tellin the truth on hate it or love it
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fuckin hate the layout of that site..having to click on 20 pages just to read a whole article
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I may be mistaken, but there's nothing to buy or sell about this question.
Lyric wise? "The Documentary" was NOT a good album lyric-wise, The Game's topics were made up of name dropping and talking about how he's bringing the West Coast back. How are you going to bring the West Coast back if you're too busy name dropping guys from the past? I'd rate the lyrics a 2.5/5 or 3/5.
Beat wise? The production was spot on, thank God. If it weren't for the production, this album would have ended up like his other albums (decent or trash). 4.5/5.
Yup. You're right about lyrical content and it's not just the name-dropping. Everytime I play the record straight through, it feels like he mentions "Jesus pieces" on every other song. I think West Coast fans, most noteably on this forum, jump to call something a "classic" because it's a great record that still sounds great. This and "All Eyez On Me" are two albums that although I personally love are just not classics to me.
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Finally this site gives something worth the read, great article, and i'm only half the way through. Its cool to read something like this on an album many dont talk about anymore (outside of this site).
And im fuckin SICK of people saying the lyrical direction was garbage on this. At LEAST half the songs had real fuckin lyrics: Dreams, Hate It Or Love It (hook and 50 mostly), Don't Need You're Love, Start From Scratch, The Documentary, Like Father Like Son and probably 1 or 2 more I can't think of now. You can't possibly hate on any of the lyrics from those. As for the others, their seriously not bad AT ALL. So lyrically, while it's not one of the best, it's as good as you're gonna get from someone like The Game.
And I won't even start with the production, one of the best produced albums of all time, I can't decide between this and GRODT in terms of production, probably this (noth the Dre beats though).
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+1 for this, just read it all, best article i'v read in a long long time.
i think everyone should read this, espeically the last page.
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And im fuckin SICK of people saying the lyrical direction was garbage on this. At LEAST half the songs had real fuckin lyrics: Dreams, Hate It Or Love It (hook and 50 mostly), Don't Need You're Love, Start From Scratch, The Documentary, Like Father Like Son and probably 1 or 2 more I can't think of now. You can't possibly hate on any of the lyrics from those. As for the others, their seriously not bad AT ALL. So lyrically, while it's not one of the best, it's as good as you're gonna get from someone like The Game.
And I won't even start with the production, one of the best produced albums of all time, I can't decide between this and GRODT in terms of production, probably this (noth the Dre beats though).
I disagree that it's the best you'll get from someone like Game. Let me clarify where my issue is. Game is actually a really good lyricist so I'd say it's more the subject matter. You are correct in terms of the album being one of the best produced on a technical level but it almost goes for too much in some cases. On Doctor's Advocate, while the production is not nearly as good on individual songs, the album probably flows a lot smoother because Game has grown considerably as an artist and has a little more to talk about there. I think "Start From Scratch" and "Hate It Or Love It" are incredible songs. Two of the best to come out of that genre in that time period. However when it comes down to the overall flow of the album, the content feels at times very redudant.
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And im fuckin SICK of people saying the lyrical direction was garbage on this. At LEAST half the songs had real fuckin lyrics: Dreams, Hate It Or Love It (hook and 50 mostly), Don't Need You're Love, Start From Scratch, The Documentary, Like Father Like Son and probably 1 or 2 more I can't think of now. You can't possibly hate on any of the lyrics from those. As for the others, their seriously not bad AT ALL. So lyrically, while it's not one of the best, it's as good as you're gonna get from someone like The Game.
And I won't even start with the production, one of the best produced albums of all time, I can't decide between this and GRODT in terms of production, probably this (noth the Dre beats though).
I disagree that it's the best you'll get from someone like Game. Let me clarify where my issue is. Game is actually a really good lyricist so I'd say it's more the subject matter. You are correct in terms of the album being one of the best produced on a technical level but it almost goes for too much in some cases. On Doctor's Advocate, while the production is not nearly as good on individual songs, the album probably flows a lot smoother because Game has grown considerably as an artist and has a little more to talk about there. I think "Start From Scratch" and "Hate It Or Love It" are incredible songs. Two of the best to come out of that genre in that time period. However when it comes down to the overall flow of the album, the content feels at times very redudant.
agree with every word, i think that's a very good way to put it
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Dre (of Cool & Dre): “We were passing out CDs heavy back in the day. One of the CDs that we passed out with that beat got into Sha Money XL's hands. That song ended up being the record that really put Cool & Dre on the map. We didn't know Game [at the time], but what's crazy is that our attorney knew a lot of his people. We met him in Miami when he came down here. I can't really pin-point the actual day we met him, but it was shortly after the record was hitting. From there on we got a super close relationship and now we're super cool.
“[We made the beat] in Cool's mother’s garage. This was back in the day man. Funny story, after the record blew we did a meeting with Jimmy Iovine—we were gonna do a deal with an artist there—and he asked us about “Hate It or Love It.” He was just like, 'That record is amazing. Do you have the original beat before Dr. Dre touched it?' We were like, ’Yeah, we got it on the laptop.’ He was like, 'I always wanna hear what stuff sounds like before Dre puts the magic to it.’ So we pressed play and I'll never forget his face....he was like, 'Yo it's the same damn beat. Send me the original version.’ We were like, ’This is the original version!’
“But Dre had put the most amazing mix on it. Like his mixes are so fucking phenomenal. Trust me there was a difference sonically, but as for the record itself the music was the same. But Dre brought it to life. [As a mixer is] what I think is his greatest quality. His sound placement and how his shit comes out sonically. That's why they're his headphones. His ear for instrument placement is amazing. A Dr. Dre mix is a co-production in our mind because he just kinda brings shit out that was not there and that's what he did. And, if I'm not mistaken at the end of the hook he added a string going into the verse.”
Mike Lynn (A&R for Aftermath): “’Hate It Or Love It’ was for 50. 50 called me when he did ’Hate It Or Love It’ like, ’I’m thinking about keeping it for myself and G-Unit, but I might give it to Game.’ He played it for me over the phone and I’m like, ’We gotta have that!’ I knew it had a chance to be a single, but Dre wasn’t 100 percent sure because of the tempo. But when we tested it, it came back and people were definitely into it.
‘Hate It Or Love It’ sounded like a sample, Dr. Dre made it sound like a record...If they play you their version and his version, they’re night and day. - Mike Lynn
“Dr. Dre completely reproduced that track. He had it replayed. He never took credit for it, he still let them get producer credit, that’s how he is. It’s funny to me when people say, ’Dre took my beat’ and this and that. It’s like, Come on man all that shit is bullshit. I seen so many producers eating out there because their material sounded professional, but in the beginning of their career their music wasn’t nowhere near professional. Dre made it sound professional. Every record on that album Dr. Dre touched. Everything. ’Hate It Or Love It’ sounded like a sample, Dre made it sound like a record. Dre cleaned it up [on the] musical side. He had the baseline played so it actually sounded professional. He made those records. If they play you their version and his version, they’re night and day. He had to [get co-producer credit], he did all the work. [Laughs.]”
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After reading through it all, great read, I have even more respect for this album and some of the songs that had so much more to them, like Don't Need You're Love. Thing about that one though, Game says he recorded the vocals in '01 at Interscope (he was noticed by Interscope in '01??? I thought Aftermath found him in early '03 or late '02) just a few months after being shot. That would mean 50 wasn't even on Aftermath/Interscope's radar at the time, yet he mentions him in the song "like 50, first they hate you, then they love you, then they hate you again". Doesn't add up. Maybe he meant that he got shot in late '01 and recorded the song in early '02 . . . but it still wouldn't really make sense since 50 still wasn't anything at that point.
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great interview
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Game became a much better rapper AFTER The Documentary. His delivery, flow and lyrics are all far better on TDA and LAX. However, you can't knock the beats and the hooks on The Documentary. Classic shit.
Best Game album is still The Doctors Advocate though. The beats are still there, the record is more coherent and Game is far far better.
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What's with BG Knocc Out being credited as a producer on Hate it or Love it?
http://www.complex.com/music/2011/02/the-making-of-the-games-the-documentary/hate-it-or-love-it#gallery
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What's with BG Knocc Out being credited as a producer on Hate it or Love it?
http://www.complex.com/music/2011/02/the-making-of-the-games-the-documentary/hate-it-or-love-it#gallery
lol yeah i noticed that too, forgot to comment on it.
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great article
nothing but love for Game from me
angelo sums game and 50 situation up perfectly
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Good read.
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By reading this it shows why Bishop never dropped an album. He wasn't able to excite the exec's or Dre, enough for them to really be dedicated to release his debut.
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I may be mistaken, but there's nothing to buy or sell about this question.
Lyric wise? "The Documentary" was NOT a good album lyric-wise, The Game's topics were made up of name dropping and talking about how he's bringing the West Coast back. How are you going to bring the West Coast back if you're too busy name dropping guys from the past? I'd rate the lyrics a 2.5/5 or 3/5.
Beat wise? The production was spot on, thank God. If it weren't for the production, this album would have ended up like his other albums (decent or trash). 4.5/5.
Yup. You're right about lyrical content and it's not just the name-dropping. Everytime I play the record straight through, it feels like he mentions "Jesus pieces" on every other song. I think West Coast fans, most noteably on this forum, jump to call something a "classic" because it's a great record that still sounds great. This and "All Eyez On Me" are two albums that although I personally love are just not classics to me.
you're replying to a bot
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Thanks for postin', i love readin' shit like this. I wish there were these "Making Of" documents about the old Death Row releases.
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Reading this made me listen to the DOC & DA again, what sets the two albums apart for me is amongst others that DA missing a song like Hate It or Love It, originally DA had that type of song Hustler's Dream, which i don't understand why game scrapped it from the album.
With Hustler's Dream & Murda it would have been DA > DOC.
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50's comments about the songs he worked on are more or less accurate. Without his hooks, Game would not have had an album.
And, some of this is straight bullshit, because a song like Start From Scratch was ORIGINALLY A MASE song. See,
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/mae/fromscratch.html
Game isn't lyrically creative here. He just switched out words and used the similar pattern of Mase's original lryics. Shit like this has me shaking my head.
Like, what the fuck?
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just goes to show what little involvement 50 cent did have in this album, if anything it made it worse by the introductory of tony yayo and songs like special
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Yeah, right! 50's involvement REALLY made it worst. It was so bad he was able to go MULTI-PLATINUM and have his BIGGEST SINGLES due to 50's writing abilities. Plus, it wasn't even 50's idea to put Yayo on that track.
Dipshit. Admit that 50 cent had his hand in establishing Game's commercial career. Without 50 cent Game would not have released this album. Every thing was dependent on Game hooking up with G-Unit. I'm not saying it's fair, just that it went that way. I'm not saying 50 is the only one involved in establishing Game. Dr. Dre helped him as an artist. Other producers him as an artist. His A&R helped him behind the scenes. All that is still true but without 50 Cent Game would not have released the Documentary and would not have been established.
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Yeah, right! 50's involvement REALLY made it worst.
until you can reach an adequate level of intelligence, i revoke your right to talk to me
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What's with BG Knocc Out being credited as a producer on Hate it or Love it?
http://www.complex.com/music/2011/02/the-making-of-the-games-the-documentary/hate-it-or-love-it#gallery
funny how each story on there is different...the beat was just the same before dre got it...or the beat was nothing untill dre got it.....funny storys..
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When exactly did game sign to aftermath because i thought it was after 50. But games says he was recording in 2001.
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When exactly did game sign to aftermath because i thought it was after 50. But games says he was recording in 2001.
he was rapping before he signed to Aftermath. maybe i'm wrong, but i took that to be he was using material from his pre-Aftermath days.
What's with BG Knocc Out being credited as a producer on Hate it or Love it?
http://www.complex.com/music/2011/02/the-making-of-the-games-the-documentary/hate-it-or-love-it#gallery
funny how each story on there is different...the beat was just the same before dre got it...or the beat was nothing untill dre got it.....funny storys..
yeah, that's the sort of thing i was talking about when i said there's a number of conflicting versions of events..
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Yeah, right! 50's involvement REALLY made it worst.
until you can reach an adequate level of intelligence, i revoke your right to talk to me
1. We're not talking.
2. You're argument sucks.
3. You're a stan.
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I may be mistaken, but there's nothing to buy or sell about this question.
Lyric wise? "The Documentary" was NOT a good album lyric-wise, The Game's topics were made up of name dropping and talking about how he's bringing the West Coast back. How are you going to bring the West Coast back if you're too busy name dropping guys from the past? I'd rate the lyrics a 2.5/5 or 3/5.
Beat wise? The production was spot on, thank God. If it weren't for the production, this album would have ended up like his other albums (decent or trash). 4.5/5.
Yup. You're right about lyrical content and it's not just the name-dropping. Everytime I play the record straight through, it feels like he mentions "Jesus pieces" on every other song. I think West Coast fans, most noteably on this forum, jump to call something a "classic" because it's a great record that still sounds great. This and "All Eyez On Me" are two albums that although I personally love are just not classics to me.
you're replying to a bot
(http://th483.photobucket.com/albums/rr196/hypatia320/GIFs/Smileys/th_lmao4.gif)
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What's with BG Knocc Out being credited as a producer on Hate it or Love it?
http://www.complex.com/music/2011/02/the-making-of-the-games-the-documentary/hate-it-or-love-it#gallery
funny how each story on there is different...the beat was just the same before dre got it...or the beat was nothing untill dre got it.....funny storys..
Game and cool and dre can't even be on the same page for when they met each other lol. Great read, it needs dre and fifty to speak on it though
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So many stories and yet they all seem to differ, lol. One thing you can take from this is that 50 did write the hooks to some of Game's songs (which was already known). I wonder what the outcome would have been if somebody else did them. Seems like his affiliation with G-Unit/Aftermath did help him land a release date but affiliation helped a lot of other artists as well.
On a side note, WTF is up with Complex's layout?