West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Sccit on June 12, 2011, 07:57:47 PM
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vote & discuss.
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pussy performance
Scottie fucked up when he compared him to Jordan :laugh:
really tho, I think they'll be back next year, they might win in the next couple years
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pussy performance
Scottie fucked up when he compared him to Jordan :laugh:
really tho, I think they'll be back next year, they might win in the next couple years
honestly, though, did u expect the collapse, or did u really believe in the hype?
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no I thought he'd play well actually
I do think he's a bit overrated for never having won a ring, but his ability is not overhyped
only problem I have with his game, is he seems to travel so fuckin much, he takes 3 steps like a motherfucker
but then again, Dirk was killin em with the traveling in this series!
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Not up to par, but not poor. Wade played worse than LeBron tonight.
I mean, NIK said moments after the decision that this team couldn't win. They weren't deep enough & that's what happened, they lost to a better basketball team.
The Heat had five guys contributing, the Mavs had "The Custodian" playing big minutes for them.
Mike Miller, the projected 4th best player on that team, 4th highest salary (I believe) score zero points tonight, played roughly 4 minutes & I don't even know if he attempted a shot. That's the "sixth man". The Mavs sixth man (Jet), score 27 on like 75% shooting.
For most of you, the way you talked, including professional analysts, the Heat super exceeded expectations this year. They should have won, in my opinion, but they didn't. What are you going to do?
To act like they won't be their next year, is insanity.
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knew lebron was gonna choke, nothing new really, thats all he in the playoffs during his stay with the cavs.
wade might of not played better this game, but he damn well played better throughout this series, the playoffs, this whole year.
lol their not deep enough? what more do you need a franchise center and pg also?
dude cham, no doubt the rest of the roster isnt too great but this is the same talk from when lebron was in the cavs:
during the regular season, their labeled the best team in basketball, and when the time comes and they lose in the playoffs "their not deep enough"
this is ridiculous is that gonna be lebrons excuse every year he doesnt get one? lol i mean rose was going on a run without any low post presence, something thats pretty hard to achieve.
lol and the "heats" lack of low post presence as an excuse is a joke. they have 3 top nba players all franchise players with that being top 3 in their own respectable positions and arguably the top 10 in the league.
counting just lebron and wade thye have 2 of the top 5 in the league right, they have no excuses period. just like the lakers.
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To act like they won't be their next year, is insanity.
LMFAO
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Same shit, different year ?
I really thought he was on a roll, when he was completely beasting against Boston and Chicago. But again, when it most counted, he was nowhere to be seen.
I hope this throws out the arguments of "there's no such thing as clutch". C'mon.
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To quote Deshawn Stevenson "He checked out".
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knew lebron was gonna choke, nothing new really, thats all he in the playoffs during his stay with the cavs.
wade might of not played better this game, but he damn well played better throughout this series, the playoffs, this whole year.
lol their not deep enough? what more do you need a franchise center and pg also?
dude cham, no doubt the rest of the roster isnt too great but this is the same talk from when lebron was in the cavs:
during the regular season, their labeled the best team in basketball, and when the time comes and they lose in the playoffs "their not deep enough"
this is ridiculous is that gonna be lebrons excuse every year he doesnt get one? lol i mean rose was going on a run without any low post presence, something thats pretty hard to achieve.
lol and the "heats" lack of low post presence as an excuse is a joke. they have 3 top nba players all franchise players with that being top 3 in their own respectable positions and arguably the top 10 in the league.
counting just lebron and wade thye have 2 of the top 5 in the league right, they have no excuses period. just like the lakers.
LOL, what? LeBron brought Wade here & Wade took over, no doubt.
& LOL, what? You're one of the people who said they "couldn't" win this year. I did not once say he needed more depth, you guys did & I suppose you're right.
But then again, you all said the Lakers would win & they lost to the same team the Heat did. You guys should be the first to say the Mavs are just a really good team.
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I think this pretty much says it all.
LeBron James and Dwayne Wade were the 55th and 56th players in NBA history to play in the NBA Finals following a regular season in which they averaged at least 25 points per game. Although Wade scored in the Finals (26.5 points per game) at a slightly higher rate that he had during the regular season (25.5), James's scoring average fell from 26.7 points per game during the season to 17.8 during the Finals.
James, however, was not merely the 27th of those 56 players (who had averaged at least 25 points during the regular season) whose scoring average in the Finals fell short of his regular-season average, but LeBron's scoring decline, by 8.9 points, was the largest such decline by any 25-point scorer in NBA history. The largest previous decline by any of those 56 players was by Wilt Chamberlain with the San Francisco Warriors. After averaging 36.9 points per game in the 1963-1964 regular season, he averaged 29.2 points in the 1964 Finals against Bill Russell and the Celtics. No other player had a decline as large as six points per game.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-110613/daily-dime
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knew lebron was gonna choke, nothing new really, thats all he in the playoffs during his stay with the cavs.
wade might of not played better this game, but he damn well played better throughout this series, the playoffs, this whole year.
lol their not deep enough? what more do you need a franchise center and pg also?
dude cham, no doubt the rest of the roster isnt too great but this is the same talk from when lebron was in the cavs:
during the regular season, their labeled the best team in basketball, and when the time comes and they lose in the playoffs "their not deep enough"
this is ridiculous is that gonna be lebrons excuse every year he doesnt get one? lol i mean rose was going on a run without any low post presence, something thats pretty hard to achieve.
lol and the "heats" lack of low post presence as an excuse is a joke. they have 3 top nba players all franchise players with that being top 3 in their own respectable positions and arguably the top 10 in the league.
counting just lebron and wade thye have 2 of the top 5 in the league right, they have no excuses period. just like the lakers.
LOL, what? LeBron brought Wade here & Wade took over, no doubt.
& LOL, what? You're one of the people who said they "couldn't" win this year. I did not once say he needed more depth, you guys did & I suppose you're right.
But then again, you all said the Lakers would win & they lost to the same team the Heat did. You guys should be the first to say the Mavs are just a really good team.
they couldnt, and they didnt. when i said they needed "depth" is that these "3" are not as talented enough as everyone labels them. like i said previously with 3 of the top 10 palyers and 2 of top 5 players in the nba thats no excuse. thats like if karl malone joined the bulls with scottie pippin and jordon, if t-mac and kg joined kobe.
u think those 3 would of lost? no period. thats what i ment when they needed more depth. that their sorry asses need more. which is completely ridiculous.
they had more than enough depth but they still couldnt do it for players of their "caliber" but obviously their not. i never really thought lebrons draft class was better than kobes.
yea i knew mavs were gonna take it all after they beat the lakers. and thats that.
the thing is from the BEGINNING i was against lebron going to miami with bosh, the thing is why the fuck would you have 2 major ball handlers who are 2 horrible shooters. i never knew that and it shows in crunch time when they need a clutch 3 or J and they just completely brick it. bosh is a better shooter than both of them.
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All the Lebron hate has gone too far. He ethered the Lebron haters last night when he said that quote about them going back to their life and him going back to his. That shit was the truth. But people are too caught up in their bandwagon hatred of Lebron to realize it.
I'm not a Lebron fan, and my only beef with Lebron was just that I love Jordan and I don't like anyone being compared to Jordan. But this shit has gone too far now. Lebron did the best he could do against a great defensive team that was well coached and had a great scheme against him. Enough said.
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All the Lebron hate has gone too far. He ethered the Lebron haters last night when he said that quote about them going back to their life and him going back to his. That shit was the truth. But people are too caught up in their bandwagon hatred of Lebron to realize it.
I'm not a Lebron fan, and my only beef with Lebron was just that I love Jordan and I don't like anyone being compared to Jordan. But this shit has gone too far now. Lebron did the best he could do against a great defensive team that was well coached and had a great scheme against him. Enough said.
u obviously dont watch any of his post game interviews and such, dude is full of himself literally.
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You know what I gt from this series?
-Bball, and sports in general, are over analyzed
-everyone involved in sports is too reactionary
-Bron needs to grow up
-Spoelstra is not a good coach, and never did get a set rotation down
-Dirk is the shit; dude IS clutch, but didnt play all that well in game 6
-Chalmers is a baller
And for the record, D wade didn't do shit i games 5 and 6; this isn't solely Brons fault. But guess what? Miami DID get to the finals despite MANY flaws and mistakes; they were better than 28 teams and there is no reason to think they won't be back.
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lebron checked out yeah, but he was also getting double teamed EVERY time he got the ball. the announcers showed a few slow motion replays of the situations where this happens. when he's being constantly double teamed the dude can only do so much
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All the Lebron hate has gone too far. He ethered the Lebron haters last night when he said that quote about them going back to their life and him going back to his. That shit was the truth. But people are too caught up in their bandwagon hatred of Lebron to realize it.
I'm not a Lebron fan, and my only beef with Lebron was just that I love Jordan and I don't like anyone being compared to Jordan. But this shit has gone too far now. Lebron did the best he could do against a great defensive team that was well coached and had a great scheme against him. Enough said.
LOL...come on, dude, u have to be BLIND to not see that the guy has underperformed in the biggest moments of each of his 8 seasons in the league. That LeBron quote is ridiculously egotistical for someone who just sucked ass in the Finals and exactly why he will never live up to the GOATs he's always compared to. Because if one of the GOATs EVER underperformed as bad as LeBron did, they'd be the first to take blame and say "i'm gunna work on my game all summer long so that I dont repeat the same mistakes next year"...LeBron, however, comes across as if he feels like he's already the "King", no matter what, and that it doesn't matter if he wins or not, cuz no matter what, it's never his fault. The guy has no heart, no killer instinct, and no passion, and I'd be really shocked if u truly can't see it, being that u are a huge MJ fan and all.
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lebron checked out yeah, but he was also getting double teamed EVERY time he got the ball. the announcers showed a few slow motion replays of the situations where this happens. when he's being constantly double teamed the dude can only do so much
the greats of this league have always figured out a way to work around double-teams and win, regardless.....this is a very poor excuse for lebron, u don't average 17 points in the Finals when you're being compared to Jordan, whether ur being double-teamed or not. and also, why does lebron always seem to "check out" when it counts most? u can see that it's mental, because his whole swag changes under pressure...is killer instinct something you're born with or something you can grow to develop? i say you're born with it...it's an inherited characteristic, and the dude just aint got it.
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lebron checked out yeah, but he was also getting double teamed EVERY time he got the ball. the announcers showed a few slow motion replays of the situations where this happens. when he's being constantly double teamed the dude can only do so much
If that's the case, he should of passed more and upped his assists.
Regular season: 7.0
Finals: 6.8
His assists actually dipped a little bit because he would defer to some else instead of setting them up off the double team.
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When LeBron said, "they hate is going to happen. Tomorrow they'll just wake up & have to go back to the lives they are living", I laughed knowing he was talking about NIK.
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lebron checked out yeah, but he was also getting double teamed EVERY time he got the ball. the announcers showed a few slow motion replays of the situations where this happens. when he's being constantly double teamed the dude can only do so much
If that's the case, he should of passed more and upped his assists.
Regular season: 7.0
Finals: 6.8
His assists actually dipped a little bit because he would defer to some else instead of setting them up off the double team.
that's also what i was gunna say....a playmakers DREAM is to get double-teamed LOL. I really hope this also puts to rest the Magic comparisons, because those were worse than the Jordan ones.
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did you guys watch the game at all? 95% of the time lebron was on the 3pt line. he would get double teamed and pass it to someone else on the 3pt line while the mavs were just crowding the paint. how is he meant to get an assist to someone else standing on the 3pt line? theyre just gonna jack up 3s?
yeah he couldve done more, but the mavs defense was keeping him locked down for the most part. i dont think its so much that lebron checked out rather the mavs defense was just smothering him whenever he touched the ball
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(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/3841/ringsd.jpg)
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did you guys watch the game at all? 95% of the time lebron was on the 3pt line. he would get double teamed and pass it to someone else on the 3pt line while the mavs were just crowding the paint. how is he meant to get an assist to someone else standing on the 3pt line? theyre just gonna jack up 3s?
yeah he couldve done more, but the mavs defense was keeping him locked down for the most part. i dont think its so much that lebron checked out rather the mavs defense was just smothering him whenever he touched the ball
Yeah if this was the first time this happened...but this has been going on for several years now. It's obvious that there is a pattern present.
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Choke-artist.... He wasn't the same player then he was during the celtics and the bulls series. What a quitter, such a shame for such a talented young man.
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^I wouldn't really call it choking. It's not like me missed huge FTs (ála Wade) or dribbled the ball on his foot and turned it over (ála Wade) or killed it until crunch time began. It's more like he just wasn't quite there.
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I could never imagine this...
He celebrated against Boston like he had just won a ring then he gets to the finals and almost dissapears. I'm a big fan of his game and he's great but if somebody puts him again the same setence as MJ, Magic, Bird... that person is just dumb.
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^I wouldn't really call it choking. It's not like me missed huge FTs (ála Wade) or dribbled the ball on his foot and turned it over (ála Wade) or killed it until crunch time began. It's more like he just wasn't quite there.
even worse...at least wade tried. lebron was fine being a role player. why are u still backing him up when u saw it first hand....ask ur mav players what they think of lebron.
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LOL...come on, dude, u have to be BLIND to not see that the guy has underperformed in the biggest moments of each of his 8 seasons in the league. That LeBron quote is ridiculously egotistical for someone who just sucked ass in the Finals and exactly why he will never live up to the GOATs he's always compared to. Because if one of the GOATs EVER underperformed as bad as LeBron did, they'd be the first to take blame and say "i'm gunna work on my game all summer long so that I dont repeat the same mistakes next year"...LeBron, however, comes across as if he feels like he's already the "King", no matter what, and that it doesn't matter if he wins or not, cuz no matter what, it's never his fault. The guy has no heart, no killer instinct, and no passion, and I'd be really shocked if u truly can't see it, being that u are a huge MJ fan and all.
Well, what do you mean by "underperformed". Because you never considered Lebron to be the best player in the game anyway, so why would you say he "underperformed". I mean, why not just say that people had too high of expectations for him?
And I don't think he's any more egotistical that Kobe is. And remember when Kobe got accused of checking out a few years ago? You defended Kobe then.
See I never thought Lebron was better than Jordan, or better than Kobe, and now it looks like he's not even the best on his own team. It seems Wade is better. Lebron was facing fierce double teams and brilliant zone defense schemes all series. I think people just had too high of expectations for him. He's trying to stay positive, not every player thrives off beating themselves up after a tough loss.
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LOL...come on, dude, u have to be BLIND to not see that the guy has underperformed in the biggest moments of each of his 8 seasons in the league. That LeBron quote is ridiculously egotistical for someone who just sucked ass in the Finals and exactly why he will never live up to the GOATs he's always compared to. Because if one of the GOATs EVER underperformed as bad as LeBron did, they'd be the first to take blame and say "i'm gunna work on my game all summer long so that I dont repeat the same mistakes next year"...LeBron, however, comes across as if he feels like he's already the "King", no matter what, and that it doesn't matter if he wins or not, cuz no matter what, it's never his fault. The guy has no heart, no killer instinct, and no passion, and I'd be really shocked if u truly can't see it, being that u are a huge MJ fan and all.
Well, what do you mean by "underperformed". Because you never considered Lebron to be the best player in the game anyway, so why would you say he "underperformed". I mean, why not just say that people had too high of expectations for him?
And I don't think he's any more egotistical that Kobe is. And remember when Kobe got accused of checking out a few years ago? You defended Kobe then.
See I never thought Lebron was better than Jordan, or better than Kobe, and now it looks like he's not even the best on his own team. It seems Wade is better. Lebron was facing fierce double teams and brilliant zone defense schemes all series. I think people just had too high of expectations for him. He's trying to stay positive, not every player thrives off beating themselves up after a tough loss.
underperformed, meaning he averaged 27 points in the regular season and 17 in the Finals...meaning he doesn't fare well in pressure situations, as history has proven. meaning he doesnt have the tenacity and killer instinct of a kobe, jordan, magic etc...it's pretty simple, dude. the guy is more dominique wilkins than he is michael jordan, and there's nothing wrong with that...it's simply not what everyone, INCLUDING HIMSELF, has made him out to be...remember, he is the SELF-anointed "King"...no one else gave him that title, that's what he thinks of himself as. Only, a true King is a natural born leader and LeBron, obviously, is not. He brought it all on himself...don't forget, just a few months ago he claimed that he would lead the Miami Heat to over 7 championships...the guy is a joke...a talented joke, but for all the hype surrounding him, he is not some special once in a lifetime gift that we are lucky to "witness"...he's just a good basketball player..
as for Kobe, he has every right to be egotistical, because he has already proven that he can deliver...there's a huge difference between being cocky because uv been there and done that and being cocky because everyone is on your nuts, even though you haven't backed it up...besides that, Kobe has NEVER been relegated to role player status, the way LeBron was throughout the whole Finals. those are the comparisons that are annoying as fuck, dawg...two players. one very good. one very great. there is a huge gap between the two, and i dunno what to say if u really cant see that.
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^I wouldn't really call it choking. It's not like me missed huge FTs (ála Wade) or dribbled the ball on his foot and turned it over (ála Wade) or killed it until crunch time began. It's more like he just wasn't quite there.
even worse...at least wade tried. lebron was fine being a role player. why are u still backing him up when u saw it first hand....ask ur mav players what they think of lebron.
Stevenson is a tough nigga and I like that he is bullying the shit out of the Heat, especially out of LeBron - because most Mavs are rather nice/calm guys, a tough ass nigga who gets into people's heads is needed.
I don't back him up.. I'm just saying that choking is not the right word to describe what LeBron did. To me choking is more like playing well and then folding under pressure and consequently making major mistakes as a result of it. But LeBron never played really well for his standards (aside from the 1st game maaaaybe) and he also didn't make awkward mistakes. He played like a role player. Obviously not enough for a player of his stature and bad, no doubt, just not the classic choke-job in my book. I honestly can't say what exactly happened. He played very well in crunch time against the Bulls and Celtics. Him transforming into a role player just because it was "the Finals" doesn't cut it as a valid explanation to me.
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Disappeared.
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LOL...come on, dude, u have to be BLIND to not see that the guy has underperformed in the biggest moments of each of his 8 seasons in the league. That LeBron quote is ridiculously egotistical for someone who just sucked ass in the Finals and exactly why he will never live up to the GOATs he's always compared to. Because if one of the GOATs EVER underperformed as bad as LeBron did, they'd be the first to take blame and say "i'm gunna work on my game all summer long so that I dont repeat the same mistakes next year"...LeBron, however, comes across as if he feels like he's already the "King", no matter what, and that it doesn't matter if he wins or not, cuz no matter what, it's never his fault. The guy has no heart, no killer instinct, and no passion, and I'd be really shocked if u truly can't see it, being that u are a huge MJ fan and all.
Well, what do you mean by "underperformed". Because you never considered Lebron to be the best player in the game anyway, so why would you say he "underperformed". I mean, why not just say that people had too high of expectations for him?
And I don't think he's any more egotistical that Kobe is. And remember when Kobe got accused of checking out a few years ago? You defended Kobe then.
See I never thought Lebron was better than Jordan, or better than Kobe, and now it looks like he's not even the best on his own team. It seems Wade is better. Lebron was facing fierce double teams and brilliant zone defense schemes all series. I think people just had too high of expectations for him. He's trying to stay positive, not every player thrives off beating themselves up after a tough loss.
underperformed, meaning he averaged 27 points in the regular season and 17 in the Finals...meaning he doesn't fare well in pressure situations, as history has proven. meaning he doesnt have the tenacity and killer instinct of a kobe, jordan, magic etc...it's pretty simple, dude. the guy is more dominique wilkins than he is michael jordan, and there's nothing wrong with that...it's simply not what everyone, INCLUDING HIMSELF, has made him out to be...remember, he is the SELF-anointed "King"...no one else gave him that title, that's what he thinks of himself as. Only, a true King is a natural born leader and LeBron, obviously, is not. He brought it all on himself...don't forget, just a few months ago he claimed that he would lead the Miami Heat to over 7 championships...the guy is a joke...a talented joke, but for all the hype surrounding him, he is not some special once in a lifetime gift that we are lucky to "witness"...he's just a good basketball player..
as for Kobe, he has every right to be egotistical, because he has already proven that he can deliver...there's a huge difference between being cocky because uv been there and done that and being cocky because everyone is on your nuts, even though you haven't backed it up...besides that, Kobe has NEVER been relegated to role player status, the way LeBron was throughout the whole Finals. those are the comparisons that are annoying as fuck, dawg...two players. one very good. one very great. there is a huge gap between the two, and i dunno what to say if u really cant see that.
yeah, I mean we are both pretty much thinking the same thing, it's just a difference over semantics.
Like you say he underperformed but then you say he always chockes and has no killer instinct. So if he only did what he always does then I wouldn't call it "underperforming" cause thats what we expected, right?
Then all I said was he's no more arrogant than Kobe and you agreed to that, you just said Kobe has a right to be arrogant, which is true because Kobe has always lived up to the hype and even exceeded it.
I just thought the Lebron hate was going to far. He may not be biult like Jordan and Kobe. Where Jordan and Kobe have a drive to be the greatest maybe Lebron is more focused on family and his personal life or off the court stuff.
Whatever it is I just thought the hate was going too far. I mean it's not his fault people treat him like a God, he's human, and any human being would have a hard time not lettin that shit go to their head.
But your assessment of Lebron as a player has always been spot on.
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^I wouldn't really call it choking. It's not like me missed huge FTs (ála Wade) or dribbled the ball on his foot and turned it over (ála Wade) or killed it until crunch time began. It's more like he just wasn't quite there.
even worse...at least wade tried. lebron was fine being a role player. why are u still backing him up when u saw it first hand....ask ur mav players what they think of lebron.
Stevenson is a tough nigga and I like that he is bullying the shit out of the Heat, especially out of LeBron - because most Mavs are rather nice/calm guys, a tough ass nigga who gets into people's heads is needed.
I don't back him up.. I'm just saying that choking is not the right word to describe what LeBron did. To me choking is more like playing well and then folding under pressure and consequently making major mistakes as a result of it. But LeBron never played really well for his standards (aside from the 1st game maaaaybe) and he also didn't make awkward mistakes. He played like a role player. Obviously not enough for a player of his stature and bad, no doubt, just not the classic choke-job in my book. I honestly can't say what exactly happened. He played very well in crunch time against the Bulls and Celtics. Him transforming into a role player just because it was "the Finals" doesn't cut it as a valid explanation to me.
him transforming into a role player because it was the Finals is a perfect explanation and a classic example of a choke-job....there is way more pressure in the Finals than there is against weak ass Boston and Chicago. so he was good against those teams, played calm and composed, but CHOKED when the real pressure arrived. crystal clear....and deshawn aint the only one talkin shit. jason terry was on the radio yesterday sayin lebron couldnt handle the pressure and folded. everybody in the world knows whats up by now, other than cham. even u know whats up, ur just subtly defending him because u still like him.
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LOL...come on, dude, u have to be BLIND to not see that the guy has underperformed in the biggest moments of each of his 8 seasons in the league. That LeBron quote is ridiculously egotistical for someone who just sucked ass in the Finals and exactly why he will never live up to the GOATs he's always compared to. Because if one of the GOATs EVER underperformed as bad as LeBron did, they'd be the first to take blame and say "i'm gunna work on my game all summer long so that I dont repeat the same mistakes next year"...LeBron, however, comes across as if he feels like he's already the "King", no matter what, and that it doesn't matter if he wins or not, cuz no matter what, it's never his fault. The guy has no heart, no killer instinct, and no passion, and I'd be really shocked if u truly can't see it, being that u are a huge MJ fan and all.
Well, what do you mean by "underperformed". Because you never considered Lebron to be the best player in the game anyway, so why would you say he "underperformed". I mean, why not just say that people had too high of expectations for him?
And I don't think he's any more egotistical that Kobe is. And remember when Kobe got accused of checking out a few years ago? You defended Kobe then.
See I never thought Lebron was better than Jordan, or better than Kobe, and now it looks like he's not even the best on his own team. It seems Wade is better. Lebron was facing fierce double teams and brilliant zone defense schemes all series. I think people just had too high of expectations for him. He's trying to stay positive, not every player thrives off beating themselves up after a tough loss.
underperformed, meaning he averaged 27 points in the regular season and 17 in the Finals...meaning he doesn't fare well in pressure situations, as history has proven. meaning he doesnt have the tenacity and killer instinct of a kobe, jordan, magic etc...it's pretty simple, dude. the guy is more dominique wilkins than he is michael jordan, and there's nothing wrong with that...it's simply not what everyone, INCLUDING HIMSELF, has made him out to be...remember, he is the SELF-anointed "King"...no one else gave him that title, that's what he thinks of himself as. Only, a true King is a natural born leader and LeBron, obviously, is not. He brought it all on himself...don't forget, just a few months ago he claimed that he would lead the Miami Heat to over 7 championships...the guy is a joke...a talented joke, but for all the hype surrounding him, he is not some special once in a lifetime gift that we are lucky to "witness"...he's just a good basketball player..
as for Kobe, he has every right to be egotistical, because he has already proven that he can deliver...there's a huge difference between being cocky because uv been there and done that and being cocky because everyone is on your nuts, even though you haven't backed it up...besides that, Kobe has NEVER been relegated to role player status, the way LeBron was throughout the whole Finals. those are the comparisons that are annoying as fuck, dawg...two players. one very good. one very great. there is a huge gap between the two, and i dunno what to say if u really cant see that.
yeah, I mean we are both pretty much thinking the same thing, it's just a difference over semantics.
Like you say he underperformed but then you say he always chockes and has no killer instinct. So if he only did what he always does then I wouldn't call it "underperforming" cause thats what we expected, right?
Then all I said was he's no more arrogant than Kobe and you agreed to that, you just said Kobe has a right to be arrogant, which is true because Kobe has always lived up to the hype and even exceeded it.
I just thought the Lebron hate was going to far. He may not be biult like Jordan and Kobe. Where Jordan and Kobe have a drive to be the greatest maybe Lebron is more focused on family and his personal life or off the court stuff.
Whatever it is I just thought the hate was going too far. I mean it's not his fault people treat him like a God, he's human, and any human being would have a hard time not lettin that shit go to their head.
But your assessment of Lebron as a player has always been spot on.
yup...but i dont think the hate has gone too far, because lebron has brought it all on himself. when u arrange a championship style celebration/parade before the season starts, ur even pretty much askin for it if u don't succeed. other than that, ur 100% right...Peace
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Yeah, NIK because that's when you started hating on LeBron, when he had the parade.
BTW, chief. Nobody hates on Wade or Bosh & they were as much involved in the parade.
You're an idiot lol.
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Yeah, NIK because that's when you started hating on LeBron, when he had the parade.
BTW, chief. Nobody hates on Wade or Bosh & they were as much involved in the parade.
You're an idiot lol.
Wade and Bosh didn't have a "decision" show to shit on their hometown and didn't call themselves the King and call their fans "witnesses"...i dont think ur smart enough to get it, so i'll explain it some more. The parade is not what makes me hold a dislike for LeBron, it's the attitude and personality he was born with that causes the dislike, which are the characteristics that make him think doing a show to shit on your hometown and holding a pre-season parade are good ideas. do u understand, or should i go into more detail?
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I mean, the fact you doubted he would be good & Jordan Farmar would be better after analysts put him over Kobe & compared him to MJ in high-school goes to show before you even heard him speak, you had something against him.
Don't act like his "attitude" over the years is what made you dislike him. Even if he was 100% against being a popular figure, as long as MJ or Kobe comparisons came around your bitter, Jewish ass was hating.
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I mean, the fact you doubted he would be good & Jordan Farmar would be better after analysts put him over Kobe & compared him to MJ in high-school goes to show before you even heard him speak, you had something against him.
Don't act like his "attitude" over the years is what made you dislike him. Even if he was 100% against being a popular figure, as long as MJ or Kobe comparisons came around your bitter, Jewish ass was hating.
listen to yourself...people were putting him above kobe and comparing him to jordan in HIGH SCHOOL. that is on some most overhyped athlete of all time type shit... what is to like about that? come on, now. i never had anything against him as a player at first, only against those acting like he was God in a basketball jersey. when he started feeding into the hype and actually believing he was God when he was simply just another good baller, that's when I stopped liking HIM.......if u cant understand this, then ur just really, REALLY slow. honestly, though, i don't even dislike him as much as u act...i just think he's a selfish, egotistical bitch who's all about himself and who has fed into his own hype, when he hasn't proven shit.. i still think he's a good player...just not one who can carry a team ala the GOATs. that's all.
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^I hear people hate extremely hate on traits of other people that are also traits of the hater. Makes sense.
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lol@ MJ-Magic-Kobe status. Since when does Kobe's finals performances put him in that group?!
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Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.
And really, MJ far exceeds Magic. MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed. MJ never got swept in his prime. Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender
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lol@ MJ-Magic-Kobe status. Since when does Kobe's finals performances put him in that group?!
True. Kobe is a great player, top 10 ever j think. But he has never put his stamp on a finals series, and doesn't have a defining finals game, definitely not one of the top 20 games ever.
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And really, MJ far exceeds Magic. MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed. MJ never got swept in his prime. Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender
What Magic did in Game 6 of the 1980 Finals was better than any Finals performance by MJ. Magic also made 9 Finals. Not saying he's better than MJ, but to not put the 2 in the same league is ridiculous.
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lol@ MJ-Magic-Kobe status. Since when does Kobe's finals performances put him in that group?!
True. Kobe is a great player, top 10 ever j think. But he has never put his stamp on a finals series, and doesn't have a defining finals game, definitely not one of the top 20 games ever.
Game 5 of the 2000 NBA Finals could be considered a defining finals game. As for stamp on a finals series, he did average 26.8 points, 51.4% shooting, 5.8 rebounds, 5.3 assists in the 2002 Finals, but that was against the pathetic Nets.
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lol@ MJ-Magic-Kobe status. Since when does Kobe's finals performances put him in that group?!
LMAO@acting like Kobe isn't up there amongst the GOATS. shame on u, especially since ur a Spurs fan and Kobe has shitted all over ur team a whole lot this past decade.
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Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.
And really, MJ far exceeds Magic. MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed. MJ never got swept in his prime. Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender
are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.
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lol@ MJ-Magic-Kobe status. Since when does Kobe's finals performances put him in that group?!
True. Kobe is a great player, top 10 ever j think. But he has never put his stamp on a finals series, and doesn't have a defining finals game, definitely not one of the top 20 games ever.
Game 5 of the 2000 NBA Finals could be considered a defining finals game. As for stamp on a finals series, he did average 26.8 points, 51.4% shooting, 5.8 rebounds, 5.3 assists in the 2002 Finals, but that was against the pathetic Nets.
LOL...Kobe had a defining Finals game at the age that MJ was still in college...these suckaz just don't know...............
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I love when NIK gets all emotional. Keep fighting those arguments you physically & statistically cannot prove. :laugh: :loser:
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Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.
And really, MJ far exceeds Magic. MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed. MJ never got swept in his prime. Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender
are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.
First off, I love Magic Johnson, but his defense WAS trash. I DO think his game 6 in 1980 is the best finals game of all time though. I'm saying though, dude had his share of shit finals games and moments. Didn't they call the guy Tragic Johnson? As for Kobe, he doesn't have one top 10 finals game, agreed? No real shame I that, but it's kind of odd considering some of the amazing games he's had in the regular season. Next, MJ, despite circumstances blah blah, once AVERAGED 40 in a finals series, never lost a finals, never lost as the home seed, and has at least one of the top 10 finals games ever (most people say two or three). Please inform me of MJs failures in the playoffs
( aside from losing to the Magic after being outta ball for a year and a half)
As for circumstances, BOTH Magic and Kobe joined teams as rookies that had the best center in basketball. MJ didn't have such a luxury- it helped stats wise for sure, but not championship wise. Everything he got in the playoffs, he earned. Yes, he lost to the Pistons, but he overcame that by sweeping them
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Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.
And really, MJ far exceeds Magic. MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed. MJ never got swept in his prime. Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender
are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.
First off, I love Magic Johnson, but his defense WAS trash. I DO think his game 6 in 1980 is the best finals game of all time though. I'm saying though, dude had his share of shit finals games and moments. Didn't they call the guy Tragic Johnson? As for Kobe, he doesn't have one top 10 finals game, agreed? No real shame I that, but it's kind of odd considering some of the amazing games he's had in the regular season. Next, MJ, despite circumstances blah blah, once AVERAGED 40 in a finals series, never lost a finals, never lost as the home seed, and has at least one of the top 10 finals games ever (most people say two or three). Please inform me of MJs failures in the playoffs
( aside from losing to the Magic after being outta ball for a year and a half)
As for circumstances, BOTH Magic and Kobe joined teams as rookies that had the best center in basketball. MJ didn't have such a luxury- it helped stats wise for sure, but not championship wise. Everything he got in the playoffs, he earned. Yes, he lost to the Pistons, but he overcame that by sweeping them
Magic's defense was not trash...it was like LeBron's defense is currently, sometimes on, sometimes off, depending on the match-up...But overall, he was a decent defender...regardless, the Showtime Lakers were never defensive oriented teams in the first place. What Magic lacked for in defense, he made up for in other areas...for instance, Jordan's court vision was no where near Magic's....Also, Magic had the luxury of Kareem, but Jordan had the luxury of Pippen, who was considered by many the best perimeter defender on the Bulls. Bottom line, Magic and Jordan are in the same category...same with Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe, amongst others...Jordan had easy match-ups in the Finals, but he did have his struggles in the playoffs, when facing tougher oppositions....Also, lets not forget, Kobe, in his physical prime, was stuck on a D-League level roster for 3 straight years...different circumstances bring different situations, and that's exactly what it is....like u said, MJ was placed in a spot where he could immediately contribute amazing stats, the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect... the team he struggled with early on and collected all the jaw-dropping stats on during those down years were built into great teams by the time he reached his physical prime...as far as ability goes, there is nothing that makes MJ on another level compared to the other all-time greats...circumstances and marketing were nearly perfect, but as a player, he's right there with the other greats.
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Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.
And really, MJ far exceeds Magic. MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed. MJ never got swept in his prime. Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender
are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.
First off, I love Magic Johnson, but his defense WAS trash. I DO think his game 6 in 1980 is the best finals game of all time though. I'm saying though, dude had his share of shit finals games and moments. Didn't they call the guy Tragic Johnson? As for Kobe, he doesn't have one top 10 finals game, agreed? No real shame I that, but it's kind of odd considering some of the amazing games he's had in the regular season. Next, MJ, despite circumstances blah blah, once AVERAGED 40 in a finals series, never lost a finals, never lost as the home seed, and has at least one of the top 10 finals games ever (most people say two or three). Please inform me of MJs failures in the playoffs
( aside from losing to the Magic after being outta ball for a year and a half)
As for circumstances, BOTH Magic and Kobe joined teams as rookies that had the best center in basketball. MJ didn't have such a luxury- it helped stats wise for sure, but not championship wise. Everything he got in the playoffs, he earned. Yes, he lost to the Pistons, but he overcame that by sweeping them
Magic's defense was not trash...it was like LeBron's defense is currently, sometimes on, sometimes off, depending on the match-up...But overall, he was a decent defender...regardless, the Showtime Lakers were never defensive oriented teams in the first place. What Magic lacked for in defense, he made up for in other areas...for instance, Jordan's court vision was no where near Magic's....Also, Magic had the luxury of Kareem, but Jordan had the luxury of Pippen, who was considered by many the best perimeter defender on the Bulls. Bottom line, Magic and Jordan are in the same category...same with Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe, amongst others...Jordan had easy match-ups in the Finals, but he did have his struggles in the playoffs, when facing tougher oppositions....Also, lets not forget, Kobe, in his physical prime, was stuck on a D-League level roster for 3 straight years...different circumstances bring different situations, and that's exactly what it is....like u said, MJ was placed in a spot where he could immediately contribute amazing stats, the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect... the team he struggled with early on and collected all the jaw-dropping stats on during those down years were built into great teams by the time he reached his physical prime...as far as ability goes, there is nothing that makes MJ on another level compared to the other all-time greats...circumstances and marketing were nearly perfect, but as a player, he's right there with the other greats.
So Magic's defense was like Bron's?! Let's move on then...
Again, when, besides against Orlando, did Jordan struggle, aside from a game here or there?
NOw, i admitted that MJ was put in a situation that helped his stats. You agree, saying " the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect"...his early years are similar then, to Kobe's "D-League" years?
What you don't seem to respond to is the fact that both Magic and KOBE joined teams that had the best center in the league. Yes, it likely impacted Kobe's stats in his first few years, but would he have 5 championships without joining a team WITH Shaq? What would Kobe's career look like if he JOINED a shit team, like the one's Lebron and Jordan joined?
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Didnt Kobe go out of the playoffs this year win two str8 17 pt games? And it's not like he gt a shitload of boards or assists in hose games, or did anything in the 4th of those games.
And really, MJ far exceeds Magic. MJ never lost a series where they were the home seed. MJ never got swept in his prime. Magic is closer to Kobe than he is to Mj, as he had skme really bad finals moments, ad was a very average defender
are u really guna try to compare LeBron's disappearing act to Kobe?...really?! LMAO. Kobe was like 6-8 with 15 points at half time of Game 4 against the Mavs...the Lakers were still down 20+...clearly, Kobe was far from the problem in the playoffs for the Lakers this year (*cough* Gasol *cough*). and even if he did have off nights, it is not even remotely close to being comparable to LeBron's disappearing act FOR A FULL SERIES.. and this is LeBron in his physical prime...disgusting. u will NEVER see Kobe relegated to role player status. EVER. it's not in dude's DNA. even on an off night, he will still figure a way to leave his fingerprints on the game. LeBron with an 8 point game IN THE FINALS...U will NEVER see anything like that from Kobe, even when he is well out his prime. and MJ did not far exceed Magic...MJ never faced teams like Magic did in the Finals, not even close LMAO. even the Boston team that Kobe beat was far better than any team MJ ever beat in the Finals, and defense-wise, not even close...Magic was the best all-around player of all time. he did things on the basketball court that MJ could only dream of. MJ, while being one of the greats, is almost as overrated as LeBron. he was not some untouchable force and he wasn't God in a Bulls jersey, like we have been made to believe. he was an all-time great, amongst many other all-time greats. circumstance-wise, his career was almost perfect...but dont act as if there weren't years where MJ failed to make the Finals, because MJ obviously had to face his share of failures as well.
First off, I love Magic Johnson, but his defense WAS trash. I DO think his game 6 in 1980 is the best finals game of all time though. I'm saying though, dude had his share of shit finals games and moments. Didn't they call the guy Tragic Johnson? As for Kobe, he doesn't have one top 10 finals game, agreed? No real shame I that, but it's kind of odd considering some of the amazing games he's had in the regular season. Next, MJ, despite circumstances blah blah, once AVERAGED 40 in a finals series, never lost a finals, never lost as the home seed, and has at least one of the top 10 finals games ever (most people say two or three). Please inform me of MJs failures in the playoffs
( aside from losing to the Magic after being outta ball for a year and a half)
As for circumstances, BOTH Magic and Kobe joined teams as rookies that had the best center in basketball. MJ didn't have such a luxury- it helped stats wise for sure, but not championship wise. Everything he got in the playoffs, he earned. Yes, he lost to the Pistons, but he overcame that by sweeping them
Magic's defense was not trash...it was like LeBron's defense is currently, sometimes on, sometimes off, depending on the match-up...But overall, he was a decent defender...regardless, the Showtime Lakers were never defensive oriented teams in the first place. What Magic lacked for in defense, he made up for in other areas...for instance, Jordan's court vision was no where near Magic's....Also, Magic had the luxury of Kareem, but Jordan had the luxury of Pippen, who was considered by many the best perimeter defender on the Bulls. Bottom line, Magic and Jordan are in the same category...same with Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe, amongst others...Jordan had easy match-ups in the Finals, but he did have his struggles in the playoffs, when facing tougher oppositions....Also, lets not forget, Kobe, in his physical prime, was stuck on a D-League level roster for 3 straight years...different circumstances bring different situations, and that's exactly what it is....like u said, MJ was placed in a spot where he could immediately contribute amazing stats, the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect... the team he struggled with early on and collected all the jaw-dropping stats on during those down years were built into great teams by the time he reached his physical prime...as far as ability goes, there is nothing that makes MJ on another level compared to the other all-time greats...circumstances and marketing were nearly perfect, but as a player, he's right there with the other greats.
So Magic's defense was like Bron's?! Let's move on then...
Again, when, besides against Orlando, did Jordan struggle, aside from a game here or there?
NOw, i admitted that MJ was put in a situation that helped his stats. You agree, saying " the way the road was paved for him was nearly perfect"...his early years are similar then, to Kobe's "D-League" years?
What you don't seem to respond to is the fact that both Magic and KOBE joined teams that had the best center in the league. Yes, it likely impacted Kobe's stats in his first few years, but would he have 5 championships without joining a team WITH Shaq? What would Kobe's career look like if he JOINED a shit team, like the one's Lebron and Jordan joined?
if Kobe were given Jordan's opportunity and had an elite contending team built around him throughout all of his prime years, 8 straight titles woulda been very possible, considering he'd never retire for baseball ala Jordan....and i never said Magic's defense was like LeBron's, I only compared their defense in a sense that sometimes they defend really good and sometimes pay less attention on the d, depending on assignment....anyways, the bottom line is that Magic, Jordan, and Kobe are all in the same category, while LeBron isn't....dispute that all u want, but it's pretty obvious to those who know that marketing has unquestionably overinflated MJ's status amongst the NBA greats to the casual NBA fan and general public.
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I remember about that thread that had Bird vs LeBron skill wise... I said LeBron could reach and even surpass bird but now I take that back (at least until he proves me wrong, very hard now). I mean Larry averaged like 25/9.5/9.5 over 6 games in 86 finals. That's what a true champion does, even when he was being doubled or tripled team. LeBron had the team to take it all, and as great as the Mavs were playing (I congratulate them) they were not an all time great really strong team
First of all he wrecked his legacy by moving to the Heat, he was what Jordan was to the Bulls, Magic or Kobe to the Lakers, Bird to the Celtics, Wade to the Heat... or even more... now he lost that forever, but whatever, that's his decision, he's a grown man.
Now I was watching him through the playoffs thinking he took over the team and was gonna go all the way blowing by everybody but that finals performance was just horrible, not worthy of a true hall of famer or goat, even disspearing in the 4th quarter.
Gotta admit I was disappointed.
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And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.
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And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.
It's the media, like you said, nobody can deny that Jordan was amazing but it's kinda pathetic how people that know nothing about basketball just automatically assume Jordan's the best ever, nobody to blame but the media (and the NBA who made Jordan invincible).
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And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.
It's the media, like you said, nobody can deny that Jordan was amazing but it's kinda pathetic how people that know nothing about basketball just automatically assume Jordan's the best ever, nobody to blame but the media (and the NBA who made Jordan invincible).
no doubt
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And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.
It's the media, like you said, nobody can deny that Jordan was amazing but it's kinda pathetic how people that know nothing about basketball just automatically assume Jordan's the best ever, nobody to blame but the media (and the NBA who made Jordan invincible).
no doubt
I saw Jordan play extensively; he's the best I've ever seen, and I started watching in the late 80's. No one since is on his level. As for before that, its a tough call. A lot of shit is subjective, but intangibles, opinions, and MEDIA and ADVERTISING INFLUENCE aside, his 6 titles, 6 MVP's, career PPG, and numerous other accolades is all that is needed. None of that shit has to do with marketing or media.
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NIK: I guess Kobe playing with Shaq really held Kobe back. This would explain why, despite playing a few more games overall than Jordan, Kobe is
1000 STEALS,
1000 REBOUNDS
600 ASSISTS
300 BLOCKS
(Don't make me mention points, or any playoff stats. It's not fair)
behind Jordan.
over 200 more turnovers too. Must all be because of playing with Shaq. Or the media. Or advertising. Or the refs. No hyperbole, opinion, or any explanation needed. Jordan was on some next shit. If you guys only remember watching him on the Wizards, or even in his last few years with the Bulls, then you don't get it. Yes, dude was a fucking asshole. Most of these guys are.
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Shaq at it again!!! The media!!! Nike and Gatorade!!!
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7747/umadmiamiheatkobebryant.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9784/michaeljordansmall.png
The Kobe one missing 3 Chips, but you get the point. He's a long way away, and yet, has played more games. I'm only using Kobe as a comparison cuz he's the guy most brought up to be as good as MJ. And normally, its his scoring, yet in his best year, he only went for 35 (and shot a worse percentage than MJ when he went for 37).
Fact is, there is nothing, no evidence at all, to suggest anyone in the last 30 years is better than Michael Jordan. People can have opinions, fine, but lets stick with facts. Championships, MVP's, scoring titles, etc. Best overall career for a ball player ever- most individual success since Wilt, and most team success since Russell.
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And people always overhyping MJ always make me laugh... Talking about he never failed, never had a bad game or he was much better than Magic and everyone else LMAO. People who know about basketball know that Jordan was really overhyped by too many people, majorly the NBA, ain't saying he wasn't amazing, because he is one of the GOAT's no doubt (hard or impossible to say who's the best) but he was the one that started all the superstar treatment. When people talk about basketball without even knowing nothing about and always say "yeah Jordan is the best ever, high above everyone else" always crack me up. Or talking about the 96 Bulls being able to sweep anyone just because of their best record when the league was in expansion and watered down. MJ was my idol (on the court only now) but I gotta say he was/is majorly overrated... even that flu game was and still is like the best thing ever when many other players played on that level in worse situations.
It's the media, like you said, nobody can deny that Jordan was amazing but it's kinda pathetic how people that know nothing about basketball just automatically assume Jordan's the best ever, nobody to blame but the media (and the NBA who made Jordan invincible).
no doubt
I saw Jordan play extensively; he's the best I've ever seen, and I started watching in the late 80's. No one since is on his level. As for before that, its a tough call. A lot of shit is subjective, but intangibles, opinions, and MEDIA and ADVERTISING INFLUENCE aside, his 6 titles, 6 MVP's, career PPG, and numerous other accolades is all that is needed. None of that shit has to do with marketing or media.
I started watching in the early 80's and I also saw Jordan play extensively, despite the fact that in the 90's he was always destroying my team (Knicks) he was everyone's idol, including me. Now to say that nobody has been on his level is just stupid, like people who never watch basketball do.
Trying to compare different positions and styles is almost impossible... I mean to say that Jordan is above the level of Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, Timmy... is just dumb, they played different positions and had different styles and qualities. You can never put intangibles aside... Was MJ helped by the NBA when they started to realize he was the most efficient and maybe only money making machine in the 90's? Yes. Did MJ win most of his titles when the league was going through expansion and talent was concentrated on lesser teams? Yes. Did the media blow all of what he did out of proportion? Yes, they still do, and that flu game is still the most corny thing ever lmao. Did great players like Pippen get overlooked because of it? Of course. Helped by the refs? All the time, he started that.
All of his swagger, the time he started to play, the time he was in his prime, his athleticism and talent were like perfectly combined for all that to happen. When somebody talks about the GOAT, ignorant people always say Jordan without a doubt, above everyone else... What about a guy like Kareem? I could make a perfect argument for him against Jordan.
Now with that all being said, Jordan is one of the greatest no doubt, out of this world talent and athleticism, splendid work ethic and will to win, amazing legacy and great games against great teams. Arguments can be made for him in regards of being the GOAT no doubt. Now to say he is just clearly above anyone else and wasn't overhyped is just plain dumb.
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Shaq at it again!!! The media!!! Nike and Gatorade!!!
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7747/umadmiamiheatkobebryant.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9784/michaeljordansmall.png
The Kobe one missing 3 Chips, but you get the point. He's a long way away, and yet, has played more games. I'm only using Kobe as a comparison cuz he's the guy most brought up to be as good as MJ. And normally, its his scoring, yet in his best year, he only went for 35 (and shot a worse percentage than MJ when he went for 37).
Fact is, there is nothing, no evidence at all, to suggest anyone in the last 30 years is better than Michael Jordan. People can have opinions, fine, but lets stick with facts. Championships, MVP's, scoring titles, etc. Best overall career for a ball player ever- most individual success since Wilt, and most team success since Russell.
What about Kareem? And when you talk about overall career you ALWAYS have intangibles and the little things, or major things... Comparing just by that is ignorant, like kids do.
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Shaq at it again!!! The media!!! Nike and Gatorade!!!
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7747/umadmiamiheatkobebryant.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9784/michaeljordansmall.png
The Kobe one missing 3 Chips, but you get the point. He's a long way away, and yet, has played more games. I'm only using Kobe as a comparison cuz he's the guy most brought up to be as good as MJ. And normally, its his scoring, yet in his best year, he only went for 35 (and shot a worse percentage than MJ when he went for 37).
Fact is, there is nothing, no evidence at all, to suggest anyone in the last 30 years is better than Michael Jordan. People can have opinions, fine, but lets stick with facts. Championships, MVP's, scoring titles, etc. Best overall career for a ball player ever- most individual success since Wilt, and most team success since Russell.
What about Kareem? And when you talk about overall career you ALWAYS have intangibles and the little things, or major things... Comparing just by that is ignorant, like kids do.
Hold up. Check my post history or something before you start saying my posts are childish, I don't even know who you are man. Anyway, all i was doing was saying, lets forget about things that can't truly be measured or agreed upon, like intangibles. And Kareem is the shit, no doubt, I never saw him play, but i've got mad respect for him. His longevity is unmatched.
And for the record, the flu game...never really hit me like that, same as Dirk in the finals this year. Who knows how sick these guys really were? I say if your playing then you are considered good to go.
Anyway, clearly you missed what I was saying. To me, its actually MORE childish to use opinions or personal bias when comparing, but thats just me...
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Shaq at it again!!! The media!!! Nike and Gatorade!!!
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/7747/umadmiamiheatkobebryant.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9784/michaeljordansmall.png
The Kobe one missing 3 Chips, but you get the point. He's a long way away, and yet, has played more games. I'm only using Kobe as a comparison cuz he's the guy most brought up to be as good as MJ. And normally, its his scoring, yet in his best year, he only went for 35 (and shot a worse percentage than MJ when he went for 37).
Fact is, there is nothing, no evidence at all, to suggest anyone in the last 30 years is better than Michael Jordan. People can have opinions, fine, but lets stick with facts. Championships, MVP's, scoring titles, etc. Best overall career for a ball player ever- most individual success since Wilt, and most team success since Russell.
What about Kareem? And when you talk about overall career you ALWAYS have intangibles and the little things, or major things... Comparing just by that is ignorant, like kids do.
Hold up. Check my post history or something before you start saying my posts are childish, I don't even know who you are man. Anyway, all i was doing was saying, lets forget about things that can't truly be measured or agreed upon, like intangibles. And Kareem is the shit, no doubt, I never saw him play, but i've got mad respect for him. His longevity is unmatched.
And for the record, the flu game...never really hit me like that, same as Dirk in the finals this year. Who knows how sick these guys really were? I say if your playing then you are considered good to go.
Anyway, clearly you missed what I was saying. To me, its actually MORE childish to use opinions or personal bias when comparing, but thats just me...
It's all good man, I wasn't talking about you specifically. It's childish to use opinions or personal bias when comparing no doubt about that, but it's also ignorant to just say this guy is better simply because he had more accomplishments, you also have to look at intangibles and the little things without letting opinions or personal bias get in the way of course. And that's what I think too, when you're on the court, even if you're really hurt or whatever, just give it all you got, screw the rest.
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Let me just put it like this, if MJ was in his prime along with the best Bulls team (the first 3peat team for me was the best, although the 96 one is more recognizable due to the record) through the 80's, he wouldn't be winning all those titles and MVP's, of course I ain't saying he wouldn't be winning nothing, it's MJ we're talking about here, and that Bulls team was very good, but all those titles and accomplishments would be really trimmed down. That's not what happened though, he had a great career and was amazing, but nobody can't deny the timing was perfect and he was overhyped and still is, because being one the GOAT's doesn't put nobody really above the other ones on that list, it's really hard to compare, even harder with different positions.
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NIK: I guess Kobe playing with Shaq really held Kobe back. This would explain why, despite playing a few more games overall than Jordan, Kobe is
1000 STEALS,
1000 REBOUNDS
600 ASSISTS
300 BLOCKS
(Don't make me mention points, or any playoff stats. It's not fair)
behind Jordan.
over 200 more turnovers too. Must all be because of playing with Shaq. Or the media. Or advertising. Or the refs. No hyperbole, opinion, or any explanation needed. Jordan was on some next shit. If you guys only remember watching him on the Wizards, or even in his last few years with the Bulls, then you don't get it. Yes, dude was a fucking asshole. Most of these guys are.
it makes perfect sense...kobe didnt have a team to himself for the first half of his career . he also ran the triangle for basically his whole career . notice how jordans stats fell off drastically in his championship years when he started running the triangle ...
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^LOL, tell me how Kobe's dick tastes.
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^LOL, tell me how Kobe's dick tastes.
i bet ud like to know, u fucking fruitcake.
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^LOL, tell me how Kobe's dick tastes.
i bet ud like to know, u fucking fruitcake.
LOL, angry.
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As I can read this forum has not changed ... ( always Kobe/Lebron BS ... what has Kobe to do with the topic ? ..)
Back on topic , his performance/attitude on the court just showed he's ok with losing , he did not even try hard at all , he passed up on a good amount of shots , just careless attitude ... he was cruising through games like it was the regular season ... I don't care if you go 5 out of 20 , just be involved in the game ( Dirk had some pretty in game bad shooting streaks but he kept forcing the issue and it paid off) ...
... and his lack of fundamental skills ( lack of post game , footwork , a dribble stop pull up Js) has been exposed by Dallas doubled teams/Zone D once again .... the bulldozer mode isn't enough to dominate clever D
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As I can read this forum has not changed ... ( always Kobe/Lebron BS ... what has Kobe to do with the topic ? ..)
Back on topic , his performance/attitude on the court just showed he's ok with losing , he did not even try hard at all , he passed up on a good amount of shots , just careless attitude ... he was cruising through games like it was the regular season ... I don't care if you go 5 out of 20 , just be involved in the game ( Dirk had some pretty in game bad shooting streaks but he kept forcing the issue and it paid off) ...
... and his lack of fundamental skills ( lack of post game , footwork , a dribble stop pull up Js) has been exposed by Dallas doubled teams/Zone D once again .... the bulldozer mode isn't enough to dominate clever D
homie, its kobe/lebron every where, no matter where u go itll be brought up if not kobe/lebron its kobe/mj it never ends its not only here.