West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: gio™fugahoo on July 12, 2011, 02:29:00 PM
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who know the story how the gangsta rap beat ended on a death row album????
cause i remember the pound was promoting the album but wasn´t on tha row????
did them geting money from tha row after they released the album???
wasn´t fred was on doggystyle at the time the album came out?????
i´m not psycho hustla lol ;D
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they were not promoting the album... daz was furious at suge over the release.. and Kurupt was cool with it.
my guess is it's an old song made around 98-99 when Daz & Soopafly were still on Tha Row and Fredwreck was down with them... Fred produced for Kurupt's Tha Streetz which was released when Daz was still on Death Row so it's very easy to imagine him producing material that ended up in suge's hands...
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they were not promoting the album... daz was furious at suge over the release.. and Kurupt was cool with it.
but i think i saw a video where the pound performed the street is a mutha songs and daz was rockin a 2002 album jacket with a big ass death row logo
my guess is it's an old song made around 98-99 when Daz & Soopafly were still on Tha Row and Fredwreck was down with them... Fred produced for Kurupt's Tha Streetz which was released when Daz was still on Death Row so it's very easy to imagine him producing material that ended up in suge's hands...
everybody guess but the real story has 2 be out there
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Kurupt wanted those songs to be released because that was when he was still dope lol
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Kurupt wanted those songs to be released because that was when he was still dope lol
True
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Kurupt wanted those songs to be released because that was when he was still dope lol
True
LOL, so true
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I remember Fred Wreck cryin like a bitch about how upset he was at Kurupt for working with "the enemy"
My question is/was enemy of who? Not you!
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Dogg Pound "2002" was dope. Only Kurupt supported it because Daz was just kicked off the label as Lead Producer and Kurupt was resigned. It wasnt played a lot by radio stations because of the low-key label (Ron Winter's D3 Entertainment) (they played "Gangsta Rap" on west radio stations) and Suge made a genius move and gave Jay-Z rights to Pac's sample and he used it for "Bonny and Clyde" with Beyonce (it was "Me and My Girlfriend"), and in return he had Jay-Z, Beanie, Memphis record with Dogg Pound for DJ Clue and then Suge him the rights to the track and it became a solid track on the radio. Tracks 12-15 appeared on Daz's "Raw" (the "What It Iz" album that Daz stole the tracks and released indy). Also, "Crip Wit Us" and "Livin The Gangsta Life" were the real original tracks that Daz remade and it had a remix of "Roll Wit Us" and "Gangsta Rap." The album sold over 400,000. Not bad.
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^ wait I don't get what you're saying. You're saying suge had daz and kurupt do the "change the game" remix? Impossible. They weren't suge's artist anymore at that time
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Dogg Pound "2002" was dope. Only Kurupt supported it because Daz was just kicked off the label as Lead Producer and Kurupt was resigned. It wasnt played a lot by radio stations because of the low-key label (Ron Winter's D3 Entertainment) (they played "Gangsta Rap" on west radio stations) and Suge made a genius move and gave Jay-Z rights to Pac's sample and he used it for "Bonny and Clyde" with Beyonce (it was "Me and My Girlfriend"), and in return he had Jay-Z, Beanie, Memphis record with Dogg Pound for DJ Clue and then Suge him the rights to the track and it became a solid track on the radio. Tracks 12-15 appeared on Daz's "Raw" (the "What It Iz" album that Daz stole the tracks and released indy). Also, "Crip Wit Us" and "Livin The Gangsta Life" were the real original tracks that Daz remade and it had a remix of "Roll Wit Us" and "Gangsta Rap." The album sold over 400,000. Not bad.
Wrong on a couple things:
1) Kurupt wasn't resigned to the label until January 2002. He wanted the album to come out, but was not signed to the label
2) Ron Winter handled the DR catelog over in the UK if I'm not mistaken. D3 and Ron Winter are two different entities
3) Suge bought the rights to put "Change Da Game (Remix)" on there. Jay-Z and Suge's agreement about remaking "Me and my Girlfriend" was in exchange for putting a track on the Dysfunktional Family OST. Suge was dissing Jay-Z in 2001-2002 when he came out of jail (I remember an interview he did where Suge said he was robbed, tied up, bound and gagged in the trunk of someone's car).
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they were not promoting the album... daz was furious at suge over the release.. and Kurupt was cool with it.
my guess is it's an old song made around 98-99 when Daz & Soopafly were still on Tha Row and Fredwreck was down with them... Fred produced for Kurupt's Tha Streetz which was released when Daz was still on Death Row so it's very easy to imagine him producing material that ended up in suge's hands...
The track was recorded probably in 2000 before Daz left. The version on 2002 was originally supposed to appear on "Too Gangsta 4 Radio" but after Daz bounced, Suge wanted the track redone for that album. Hutch re-produced the track and put Treach and Scarface on there with Kurupt still left on for the hook. There was an ad for the album on DR's website originally for the album that had "Tha Dogg Pound" on there.
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^ wait I don't get what you're saying. You're saying suge had daz and kurupt do the "change the game" remix? Impossible. They weren't suge's artist anymore at that time
Naw, what I'm sayin is that Suge did a genius move by acquiring the rights to the track by giving Jay-Z the rights to sample Pac's "Me and My Girlfriend" and in exchange Jay-Z would go recruit Dogg Pound to record with the intent of trading the rights to Suge. It worked out well for both camps because Death Row/Suge was able to use the radio success to sell the album and Jay-Z got the rights to Pac's music so he could go record "03 Bonnie and Clyde."
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Dogg Pound "2002" was dope. Only Kurupt supported it because Daz was just kicked off the label as Lead Producer and Kurupt was resigned. It wasnt played a lot by radio stations because of the low-key label (Ron Winter's D3 Entertainment) (they played "Gangsta Rap" on west radio stations) and Suge made a genius move and gave Jay-Z rights to Pac's sample and he used it for "Bonny and Clyde" with Beyonce (it was "Me and My Girlfriend"), and in return he had Jay-Z, Beanie, Memphis record with Dogg Pound for DJ Clue and then Suge him the rights to the track and it became a solid track on the radio. Tracks 12-15 appeared on Daz's "Raw" (the "What It Iz" album that Daz stole the tracks and released indy). Also, "Crip Wit Us" and "Livin The Gangsta Life" were the real original tracks that Daz remade and it had a remix of "Roll Wit Us" and "Gangsta Rap." The album sold over 400,000. Not bad.
Wrong on a couple things:
1) Kurupt wasn't resigned to the label until January 2002. He wanted the album to come out, but was not signed to the label
2) Ron Winter handled the DR catelog over in the UK if I'm not mistaken. D3 and Ron Winter are two different entities
3) Suge bought the rights to put "Change Da Game (Remix)" on there. Jay-Z and Suge's agreement about remaking "Me and my Girlfriend" was in exchange for putting a track on the Dysfunktional Family OST. Suge was dissing Jay-Z in 2001-2002 when he came out of jail (I remember an interview he did where Suge said he was robbed, tied up, bound and gagged in the trunk of someone's car).
1) You are right about the time he was officially signed, but he was talking and working with Suge long before he officially resigned. He even went on MTVNews and said that he supported the release to the fullest of "2002" and Daz said he didn't (probably cause Daz stole some of those tracks for "Raw" and he was just booted off the label).
2) Death Row was briefly signed to the now defunct d3 Entertainment which was operated by Ron Winters. They signed to it after they left Priority. "Dead Man Walkin" and "2002" were both released under D3 Entertainment. Death Row moved to Koch after they left D3.
3) The rights were all tied in under that same deal -- both the Dysfunktional Family OST track "Hovi Baby" and "Change The Game Remix" -- I remember reading the article on MTVnews that said how Suge and Jay-Z were dealing for the Makaveli rights and that was part of the deal for Suge to get that Dogg Pound cut for the "2002" album. I think they put all that beef bullshit aside when it came down to business and making money for both camps.
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Dogg Pound "2002" was dope. Only Kurupt supported it because Daz was just kicked off the label as Lead Producer and Kurupt was resigned. It wasnt played a lot by radio stations because of the low-key label (Ron Winter's D3 Entertainment) (they played "Gangsta Rap" on west radio stations) and Suge made a genius move and gave Jay-Z rights to Pac's sample and he used it for "Bonny and Clyde" with Beyonce (it was "Me and My Girlfriend"), and in return he had Jay-Z, Beanie, Memphis record with Dogg Pound for DJ Clue and then Suge him the rights to the track and it became a solid track on the radio. Tracks 12-15 appeared on Daz's "Raw" (the "What It Iz" album that Daz stole the tracks and released indy). Also, "Crip Wit Us" and "Livin The Gangsta Life" were the real original tracks that Daz remade and it had a remix of "Roll Wit Us" and "Gangsta Rap." The album sold over 400,000. Not bad.
Wrong on a couple things:
1) Kurupt wasn't resigned to the label until January 2002. He wanted the album to come out, but was not signed to the label
2) Ron Winter handled the DR catelog over in the UK if I'm not mistaken. D3 and Ron Winter are two different entities
3) Suge bought the rights to put "Change Da Game (Remix)" on there. Jay-Z and Suge's agreement about remaking "Me and my Girlfriend" was in exchange for putting a track on the Dysfunktional Family OST. Suge was dissing Jay-Z in 2001-2002 when he came out of jail (I remember an interview he did where Suge said he was robbed, tied up, bound and gagged in the trunk of someone's car).
3) The rights were all tied in under that same deal -- both the Dysfunktional Family OST track "Hovi Baby" and "Change The Game Remix" -- I remember reading the article on MTVnews that said how Suge and Jay-Z were dealing for the Makaveli rights and that was part of the deal for Suge to get that Dogg Pound cut for the "2002" album. I think they put all that beef bullshit aside when it came down to business and making money for both camps.
"Change Da Game (Remix)" is not anyway associated with "Me and My Girlfriend"/"Hovi Baby (Remix)". The timing of everything is way off for it to be true. "Change Da Game (Remix)" was recorded in early 2001. DPG2002 was released in July 2001.
"03 Bonnie and Clyde" didn't come out until October 2002. The only way this could be accurate is if "03 Bonnie and Clyde" sat on the shelf for a year, which didn't happen since the track was recorded in the summer of '02. Suge and Roc-a-fella made the agreement for "03 Bonnie and Clyde" and "Hovi Baby (Remix)".
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Dogg Pound "2002" was dope. Only Kurupt supported it because Daz was just kicked off the label as Lead Producer and Kurupt was resigned. It wasnt played a lot by radio stations because of the low-key label (Ron Winter's D3 Entertainment) (they played "Gangsta Rap" on west radio stations) and Suge made a genius move and gave Jay-Z rights to Pac's sample and he used it for "Bonny and Clyde" with Beyonce (it was "Me and My Girlfriend"), and in return he had Jay-Z, Beanie, Memphis record with Dogg Pound for DJ Clue and then Suge him the rights to the track and it became a solid track on the radio. Tracks 12-15 appeared on Daz's "Raw" (the "What It Iz" album that Daz stole the tracks and released indy). Also, "Crip Wit Us" and "Livin The Gangsta Life" were the real original tracks that Daz remade and it had a remix of "Roll Wit Us" and "Gangsta Rap." The album sold over 400,000. Not bad.
Roll With Us was different than the Chronic 2000 version? what are the differences?
Every Single Day, Gangsta Rap, Don't Stop and Roll With Us made that cd worth buying for sure....the Jayz song would've been much better w/o the tags
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Roll with us had completely different beats on the two albums. I preferred the 2002 version.
2002 was dope for what it was, a compilation.
Smoke was easily my favorite song on the album.
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Roll With Us was different than the Chronic 2000 version? what are the differences?
Different beat and Kurupt raps on the track.
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400,000 copies? really?
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400,000 copies? really?
Source?
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400,000 copies? really?
Source?
Damon X (Above The Law's Manager) confirmed that both TGFR and Tha Dogg Pound 2002 were Gold together. Tha Dogg Pound was well above 400,000. I believe it charted Top 20 on its first week.
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Roll With Us was different than the Chronic 2000 version? what are the differences?
Different beat and Kurupt raps on the track.
Yeah, people forget that Death Row recorded 5 versions of a lot of tracks which were potential singles (sometimes they would switch artists). Just like "What Would U Do" had a slightly different beat on SuperCop Soundtrack than what it did on "Murder Was The Case." I personally like both versions of "Roll Wit Us," Chronic 2000 for the heavy bass and Dogg Pound 2002 gives it a different twist with those background vocals.
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Roll With Us was different than the Chronic 2000 version? what are the differences?
Different beat and Kurupt raps on the track.
Just like "What Would U Do" had a slightly different beat on SuperCop Soundtrack than what it did on "Murder Was The Case."
Link?
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Roll With Us was different than the Chronic 2000 version? what are the differences?
Different beat and Kurupt raps on the track.
Just like "What Would U Do" had a slightly different beat on SuperCop Soundtrack than what it did on "Murder Was The Case."
Link?
Here I uploaded it for you:
http://www.zshare.net/audio/92721032f4eb8156/
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Naw, what I'm sayin is that Suge did a genius move by acquiring the rights to the track by giving Jay-Z the rights to sample Pac's "Me and My Girlfriend" and in exchange Jay-Z would go recruit Dogg Pound to record with the intent of trading the rights to Suge. It worked out well for both camps because Death Row/Suge was able to use the radio success to sell the album and Jay-Z got the rights to Pac's music so he could go record "03 Bonnie and Clyde."
But they (Death Row) weren't pushing it as a big radio single, they had "Just Doggin". Jay wouldn't have gone into record "Me and My Girlfriend" for at least another year and the remix had already been used on an album that had been out for close to a half a year. You have a severe tedency to overexaggerate the level of radio spins a lot of these songs get as well. Given that Clue didn't push it as a radio single for his project, I doubt it was just randomly blowing up L.A. radio. It should also be noted that the rights to the very same song were given to JT The Bigga Figga for his "Game For Sale" compilation that he did with Daz and he sure didn't have any Tupac publishing to give up for it. That project came out in March 2001, the Death Row one dropped in the middle of the summer. In promotional terms, the buzz would have been long dead. So the fact is that song had very little odds of making a major impact in terms of cross-marketing. You have no real numbers or facts to show anything, just a bunch of heresay.
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Naw, what I'm sayin is that Suge did a genius move by acquiring the rights to the track by giving Jay-Z the rights to sample Pac's "Me and My Girlfriend" and in exchange Jay-Z would go recruit Dogg Pound to record with the intent of trading the rights to Suge. It worked out well for both camps because Death Row/Suge was able to use the radio success to sell the album and Jay-Z got the rights to Pac's music so he could go record "03 Bonnie and Clyde."
But they (Death Row) weren't pushing it as a big radio single, they had "Just Doggin". Jay wouldn't have gone into record "Me and My Girlfriend" for at least another year and the remix had already been used on an album that had been out for close to a half a year. You have a severe tedency to overexaggerate the level of radio spins a lot of these songs get as well. Given that Clue didn't push it as a radio single for his project, I doubt it was just randomly blowing up L.A. radio. It should also be noted that the rights to the very same song were given to JT The Bigga Figga for his "Game For Sale" compilation that he did with Daz and he sure didn't have any Tupac publishing to give up for it. That project came out in March 2001, the Death Row one dropped in the middle of the summer. In promotional terms, the buzz would have been long dead. So the fact is that song had very little odds of making a major impact in terms of cross-marketing. You have no real numbers or facts to show anything, just a bunch of heresay.
MTV had an article about the album back in the day on their mtvnews site and it talked about how Suge and Jay-Z were dealing (Suge was also dealing with Ja Rule at the time and nearly signed him). But back to the topic, "Change The Game Remix" got a lot of spins here in the U.S., not just in LA, but also in Chicago, Miami, Detroit, and New York...it was played at clubs everywhere. It was during Jay-Z's prime and pretty much anything Jay was doing was huge in the mainstream.
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1445080/death-row-release-dogg-pound.jhtml
Here's the real facts:
"The Row also secured the rights to include the remix of Jay-Z's "Change Tha Game" on the album."
Also, Kurupt was fully 100% supportive of the project: Kurupt said Suge's move is something he would've done himself. "I'm shocked he ain't been did it," Kurupt said recently. "I'm a fan now. I'm ready to buy it.
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Yes, they secured the rights to it. So did JT The Bigga Figga. That's not what's being disputed.
But back to the topic, "Change The Game Remix" got a lot of spins here in the U.S., not just in LA, but also in Chicago, Miami, Detroit, and New York...it was played at clubs everywhere. It was during Jay-Z's prime and pretty much anything Jay was doing was huge in the mainstream.
What are you basing this off of? The original version of the song was already promoted as a single. The remix probably had a decent buzz with the mixtapes but it was done for Clue's project. It wasn't like "Regulate" where Death Row had the money and marketing to capitalize off it properly and cross-promote with Def Jam. It was just a newer Dogg Pound song that they licensed so they could have a Jay-Z feature on their project. Anybody that wasn't a diehard West Coast fan would have bought the song on the album that it came out on and not waited all that time for it. And how do you now what clubs or radio stations spun the record? It wasn't some monster hit record so I can't see why DJ's across the country would feel compelled to spin it everywhere or how if they did, you would know? Few things to consider.
1) DJ Clue and his label, Desert Storm, already had the album out for months and never officially pushed it a single. So unless all these DJ's bought "Professional 2" on vinyl and loved that song enough that they decided to play it on their own, it wouldn't have had a huge enough buzz. Given that "Professional 2" only went gold and was never meant to be a mainstream crossover project, I doubt people were spinning that record close enough to 2002's release date to make that much of an impact on the sales chart.
2) Jay-Z, at this point, was in between albums in terms of promotion. Def Jam was finishing up pushing the last single ("Guility Until Proven Innocent") off La Familia and moving on to building hype for "Blueprint".
3) Suge would have been in prison when both the song was recorded and when it was licensed to Death Row so I doubt he was comfortable enough with Jay-Z to influence him directly beforehand to make a song he could capitalize off of. And seeing as Daz was already allowed to use it himself for the collabo project with JT, this would have been the third official project to feature it.
As I've pointed out, you have a tendency to name off songs that were supposedly massive radio and club hits in regions that I'm not sure even ever played them so unless you got a link, I'm not buying.
Radio stations and even major club venues are influenced by chart position, any time you mention a song from a certain period getting heavy rotation in numerous regions when there's no proof that a promotional vinyl was ever pressed for the street teams to send out, let alone an actual chart position that would justify that kind of attention, it's a little questionable.
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decent albums and dope tracks. i know i was BUMPIN ALL THIS DPG / DJ CLUE & even JAY back then. shit was bangin here in the midwest!
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--Nobody was even lookin for JT The Bigga Figga; he didn't even sell a smell of the units that "2002" moved (over 400,000 for "2002")
--I was in San Diego and they played that shit on the radio left and right, and I also heard it in rotation in Miami when I was back there...and the shit was in rotation in New York because of Jay-Z being on it and NY was on Jay-Z's nutsack during that time period; Jay had a similar huge following in the midwest and they were snuffin up anything they could get their hands on and rotate that had him on it
--You said it yourself that the OG "Change The Game" was huge and Jay had a monster buzz so radio stations played the remix it was hot
--Yes, Death Row's came out after it was on Clue's but a lot of people didn't know to look for Clue's album to find a DPG/Jay-Z track so when Dogg Pound dropped they just milked the sales on it as radio stations were still playin it -- "2002" didn't sell what it sold just because of "Gangsta Rap" (that hardly got any play outside of LA, and they only played it regularly on KDAY)
--DPG "2002" debuted at #15 on the Billboard Charts and charted, Top R&B/Rap for 11 weeks, Top 200 in the country for 8 weeks, and #2 on the independent charts for 14...get out of here with that JT The Bigga Figga comparison cause nobody even looked at that shit
Yes, they secured the rights to it. So did JT The Bigga Figga. That's not what's being disputed.
But back to the topic, "Change The Game Remix" got a lot of spins here in the U.S., not just in LA, but also in Chicago, Miami, Detroit, and New York...it was played at clubs everywhere. It was during Jay-Z's prime and pretty much anything Jay was doing was huge in the mainstream.
What are you basing this off of? The original version of the song was already promoted as a single. The remix probably had a decent buzz with the mixtapes but it was done for Clue's project. It wasn't like "Regulate" where Death Row had the money and marketing to capitalize off it properly and cross-promote with Def Jam. It was just a newer Dogg Pound song that they licensed so they could have a Jay-Z feature on their project. Anybody that wasn't a diehard West Coast fan would have bought the song on the album that it came out on and not waited all that time for it. And how do you now what clubs or radio stations spun the record? It wasn't some monster hit record so I can't see why DJ's across the country would feel compelled to spin it everywhere or how if they did, you would know? Few things to consider.
1) DJ Clue and his label, Desert Storm, already had the album out for months and never officially pushed it a single. So unless all these DJ's bought "Professional 2" on vinyl and loved that song enough that they decided to play it on their own, it wouldn't have had a huge enough buzz. Given that "Professional 2" only went gold and was never meant to be a mainstream crossover project, I doubt people were spinning that record close enough to 2002's release date to make that much of an impact on the sales chart.
2) Jay-Z, at this point, was in between albums in terms of promotion. Def Jam was finishing up pushing the last single ("Guility Until Proven Innocent") off La Familia and moving on to building hype for "Blueprint".
3) Suge would have been in prison when both the song was recorded and when it was licensed to Death Row so I doubt he was comfortable enough with Jay-Z to influence him directly beforehand to make a song he could capitalize off of. And seeing as Daz was already allowed to use it himself for the collabo project with JT, this would have been the third official project to feature it.
As I've pointed out, you have a tendency to name off songs that were supposedly massive radio and club hits in regions that I'm not sure even ever played them so unless you got a link, I'm not buying.
Radio stations and even major club venues are influenced by chart position, any time you mention a song from a certain period getting heavy rotation in numerous regions when there's no proof that a promotional vinyl was ever pressed for the street teams to send out, let alone an actual chart position that would justify that kind of attention, it's a little questionable.
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They didn't know to look for it on the DJ Clue album when the song has fucking DJ Clue tags on it? Uh huh. Even if that fucker where a pressed single being actively pushed, it would have played itself out of rotation in less than 2 months with no video or artist backing. Jay was do nice numbers then but that song was getting massive spins, sir.
You said it yourself that the OG "Change The Game" was huge and Jay had a monster buzz so radio stations played the remix it was hot
No. I didn't say that. I said "Change The Game" was an actual single. The remix wasn't. Remix might have gotten a buzz with hip-hop heads through a mix show or had a decent following but it wasn't a top 40 hip-hop hit in any radio market in the country. You're not showing me any real numbers, you're imbellishing some story about how you left Miami for a week and supposedly heard it all over the radio in San Diego so that by default means it must have been big in New York. It still seems like a backtrack on how you knew that it was supposedly blowing up in every club in the country.
DPG "2002" debuted at #15 on the Billboard Charts and charted, Top R&B/Rap for 11 weeks, Top 200 in the country for 8 weeks, and #2 on the independent charts for 14...
Where are you getting this info? I'm reading its peak chart position at #34.
"2002" didn't sell what it sold just because of "Gangsta Rap"
You're damn right. In fact, I'll raise you one better. It didn't sell because of radio at all. It sold because it advertised in rap magazines using the "Dogg Pound" name and boasted a single that was falsely listed as "produced by Dr. Dre", combine that with a guest list featuring an unreleased Tupac track, Xzibit, Snoop, Jay-Z, and many others. Given that people were still regularly buying CD's, it did quite well but it still sold less than Snoop's "Dead Man Walkin" which also had no radio play and even less in terms of features.
The JT Bigga Figga comparison wasn't made as argument of sales. It was done as a challenge that 1) the song rights would have required Suge's marketing genius to acquire and 2) would have been a huge difference in terms of sales. If the song was a monster radio/club hit, why didn't Fig also see a surprising rise in his sales (like he did when he put out a Game album six months before Aftermath) or why didn't the song propel "2002" higher than "Dead Man Walking" which had no radio single.
Gangsta Rap" (that hardly got any play outside of LA, and they only played it regularly on KDAY)
Two things. "Gangsta Rap" wasn't a radio single. And your little made-up fact just came home to bite you in the ass because K-DAY WAS OFF THE AIR IN 2002! It went off the air in the 90's and didn't get ressurected until 2004.
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They didn't know to look for it on the DJ Clue album when the song has fucking DJ Clue tags on it? Uh huh. Even if that fucker where a pressed single being actively pushed, it would have played itself out of rotation in less than 2 months with no video or artist backing. Jay was do nice numbers then but that song was getting massive spins, sir.
You said it yourself that the OG "Change The Game" was huge and Jay had a monster buzz so radio stations played the remix it was hot
No. I didn't say that. I said "Change The Game" was an actual single. The remix wasn't. Remix might have gotten a buzz with hip-hop heads through a mix show or had a decent following but it wasn't a top 40 hip-hop hit in any radio market in the country. You're not showing me any real numbers, you're imbellishing some story about how you left Miami for a week and supposedly heard it all over the radio in San Diego so that by default means it must have been big in New York. It still seems like a backtrack on how you knew that it was supposedly blowing up in every club in the country.
DPG "2002" debuted at #15 on the Billboard Charts and charted, Top R&B/Rap for 11 weeks, Top 200 in the country for 8 weeks, and #2 on the independent charts for 14...
Where are you getting this info? I'm reading its peak chart position at #34.
"2002" didn't sell what it sold just because of "Gangsta Rap"
You're damn right. In fact, I'll raise you one better. It didn't sell because of radio at all. It sold because it advertised in rap magazines using the "Dogg Pound" name and boasted a single that was falsely listed as "produced by Dr. Dre", combine that with a guest list featuring an unreleased Tupac track, Xzibit, Snoop, Jay-Z, and many others. Given that people were still regularly buying CD's, it did quite well but it still sold less than Snoop's "Dead Man Walkin" which also had no radio play and even less in terms of features.
The JT Bigga Figga comparison wasn't made as argument of sales. It was done as a challenge that 1) the song rights would have required Suge's marketing genius to acquire and 2) would have been a huge difference in terms of sales. If the song was a monster radio/club hit, why didn't Fig also see a surprising rise in his sales (like he did when he put out a Game album six months before Aftermath) or why didn't the song propel "2002" higher than "Dead Man Walking" which had no radio single.
Gangsta Rap" (that hardly got any play outside of LA, and they only played it regularly on KDAY)
Two things. "Gangsta Rap" wasn't a radio single. And your little made-up fact just came home to bite you in the ass because K-DAY WAS OFF THE AIR IN 2002! It went off the air in the 90's and didn't get ressurected until 2004.
LMAO @ the KDAY thing. I agree though, the majority of 2002 was sold because the names Dr. Dre, 2Pac, Snoop Dogg, and Tha Dogg Pound were all attached to it. Gangsta Rap & Jus Doggin didn't make any noise and the buzz and hype about Change the Game remix had already died down by the time 2002 was released.
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Gangsta Rap" (that hardly got any play outside of LA, and they only played it regularly on KDAY)
Two things. "Gangsta Rap" wasn't a radio single. And your little made-up fact just came home to bite you in the ass because K-DAY WAS OFF THE AIR IN 2002! It went off the air in the 90's and didn't get ressurected until 2004.
"Gangsta Rap" was a radio single -- they made an instrumental, radio edit version, and Crooked had a radio version where he does a different extended verse, and it was sent out to radio stations because they announced that on tha row's old official site, tharow.com -- I think you were the one who just got bit
http://cgi.ebay.com/THA-DOGG-POUND-Gangsta-Rap-SEALED-Nate-Dogg-Dr-Dre-/180651206069?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item2a0fa6a5b5#ht_1534wt_1037
Next, Julio G liked that track, so it was on Power not KDAY (my bad) but they used to play it in the mix.
Next, you mentioned that people would look for it on Clue's album because he screamed on it. Not necessarily true -- Clue was screamin on a lot of tracks and he was more known for his mixtape circus than dropping actual albums. And yeah, while a few fans knew it was on Clue's album, a lot of people didn't know where to find it because it wasn't on Jay-Z's album and when Tha Dogg Pound "2002" dropped people knew it was on there (Are you going to look for the actual artist on the track or some mixtape DJ like Clue who just screams over everything?). The problem was is that Death Row released the TAGGED version of the cut where Clue screamed on instead of untagging it.
Again, with JT Tha Bigga Figga, that dude is a nobody from a chart perspective. So if you hear a track with Daz, Kurupt, and Jay-Z, are you going to look for JT The Bigga Figga or the actual artists catalogs to see if you can find it...the sales explain that.
Finally: http://www.billboard.com/artist/tha-dogg-pound/chart-history/142260?f=333&g=Albums#/artist/tha-dogg-pound/chart-history/142260?f=333&g=Albums
The album peaked at #15 and was the third most successful Dogg Pound album only behind Cali Iz Active and Dogg Food.
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Julio G liked that track, so it was on Power not KDAY (my bad) but they used to play it in the mix.
Again, where do you get this info from? Julio G never worked for Power 106 and the DJ's personal tastes don't dictate musical rotation at most radio stations anyway. They have some say during specific points when they do "mix shows" and such but the big radio stations all are driven by sponsors and ratings, they play top 40 singles.
Next, you mentioned that people would look for it on Clue's album because he screamed on it. Not necessarily true -- Clue was screamin on a lot of tracks and he was more known for his mixtape circus than dropping actual albums. And yeah, while a few fans knew it was on Clue's album, a lot of people didn't know where to find it because it wasn't on Jay-Z's album and when Tha Dogg Pound "2002" dropped people knew it was on there (Are you going to look for the actual artist on the track or some mixtape DJ like Clue who just screams over everything?). The problem was is that Death Row released the TAGGED version of the cut where Clue screamed on instead of untagging it.
There has never been, to my knowledge, anything but a TAGGED version of the song as it was meant to be an "exclusive" for DJ Clue. Clue wasn't screaming on a lot of tracks. He tags his tapes and probably songs he plays on his mix shows but untagged versions of all that stuff are available. However if you have something that's only available on his album where another untagged version never surfaced, you would need to play that.
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Clue and Jay-Z has the untagged version and if Suge bought copies of the master recording (which I'm sure he did, he's not a dumb businessman who would drop a bunch of money for an mp3 file), then he likely had the untagged version too. My guess is that they left the tagged version on there because the track might be more recognizable with the tags for appeal OR they forgot to remove it (Death Row is known to make mistakes on their albums, they did spell Snoop's names wrong on the original pressings of The Chronic and put a faulty tracklist on the back of the OG copies of Doggystyle, to name a couple examples).
As far as you asking me to prove an LA radio playlist from 2001, there's no way of that happening unless you can call Power106 or ThaBeat and ask them, but know this: "Gangsta Rap" received minimal spins for a very short time in the LA market and "Change The Game Remix" got spins allover the country. An album doesn't move the units "2002" moved without having some sort of single to go along with it, and for that album, it was a combination of the single and the advertisement they put into it (which was not bad, but wasn't Interscope by any stretch).
Also, ask yourself this: why would Suge spend his power and influence to secure that track if there was no sales that it would generate? Suge's not a dumb businessman, I know you wouldn't buy anything that didn't have a return on it, and same with me or anyone else who has a half of brain wouldn't waste our money if we could just put some other track from the vault on it without having to deal or spend money.
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Clue and Jay-Z has the untagged version and if Suge bought copies of the master recording (which I'm sure he did, he's not a dumb businessman who would drop a bunch of money for an mp3 file), then he likely had the untagged version too.
I doubt Suge bought the master though. He licensed it it. The same way JT did. He was still in prison when this album was put together and pressed so he had minimal involvement anyway.
As far as you asking me to prove an LA radio playlist from 2001, there's no way of that happening unless you can call Power106 or ThaBeat and ask them, but know this: "Gangsta Rap" received minimal spins for a very short time in the LA market and "Change The Game Remix" got spins allover the country.
I'm not asking for a list. I'm asking for a source as to why you believe any of this to be factual. Any time a record is played on a major radio station, artists and record labels get residuals. Billboard keeps records. Death Row was shipping all their singles to radio but very little of them were being played. The remix of "Change The Game" was never released as a radio single so it's very odd that DJ's on both radio and in the club would randomly decide to play it, especially when it was never, to my knowledge, on the Billboard Hot 100.
An album doesn't move the units "2002" moved without having some sort of single to go along with it, and for that album, it was a combination of the single and the advertisement they put into it (which was not bad, but wasn't Interscope by any stretch).
"Dead Man Walking" sold more units than "2002" and Priority blocked radio from touching any of the singles on that one. Game's "Untold Story" sold very well and that didn't have radio singles or artist support. Good marketing and advertising will get you plenty of places in terms of selling.
Also, ask yourself this: why would Suge spend his power and influence to secure that track if there was no sales that it would generate?
What power and influence does it take to spend money, which Death Row had quite a bit of at that time, to license a fucking song? Get Low lincensed the same exact song so it's not like it required some huge stroke to get it. And a song doesn't have to be a hit radio hit to be a good investment. How many tracks on an album make it on to the radio? Usually one at most. Two if you're hot. Three if you're really fucking hot. And four, if you're a fucking superstar. Yet record labels still pay for every song on the album.
Suge's not a dumb businessman, I know you wouldn't buy anything that didn't have a return on it, and same with me or anyone else who has a half of brain wouldn't waste our money if we could just put some other track from the vault on it without having to deal or spend money.
Well, given that Jay-Z is a major name, licensing a song like that, is a no-brainer. It also has the added punch of being a newer Dogg Pound song and since the group wasn't fucking with Suge at the time, having some recent material without having to deal with them directly is worth something. Just because the song wasn't a smash radio hit, doesn't mean there isn't value on it. For Clue, it's probably all found money anyway. His album has been on store shelves for months, it's the same version with his tags on it that he put out.
Again, your big problem is there are no solid facts to re-enforce your theories here. Music is a billion-dollar industry, my friend. Radio stations and large-venue clubs with DJ's follow a specific formula. I don't need a playlist to tell me that next to nothing from post-Interscope-era Death Row got much play on any radio stations. I can in knowing how radio works tell you that if a record isn't breaking top 40 in either or both Los Angeles and New York that it's probably not getting too many spins on a nationwide level. Regional acts will get play in their region but you're not likely to have a major hit song in Kentucky, Phoenix, Alabama, and Miami that isn't a hit in NY or LA. Especially not in 2001. Being that you didn't know K-Day wasn't active at that time or what station Julio G. worked for, I'm drawing the conclusion that your knowledge on the L.A. radio scene probably isn't coming from first-hand experience. This is why I asked you where your info is coming from.
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Again, your big problem is there are no solid facts to re-enforce your theories here. Music is a billion-dollar industry, my friend. Radio stations and large-venue clubs with DJ's follow a specific formula. I don't need a playlist to tell me that next to nothing from post-Interscope-era Death Row got much play on any radio stations. I can in knowing how radio works tell you that if a record isn't breaking top 40 in either or both Los Angeles and New York that it's probably not getting too many spins on a nationwide level. Regional acts will get play in their region but you're not likely to have a major hit song in Kentucky, Phoenix, Alabama, and Miami that isn't a hit in NY or LA. Especially not in 2001. Being that you didn't know K-Day wasn't active at that time or what station Julio G. worked for, I'm drawing the conclusion that your knowledge on the L.A. radio scene probably isn't coming from first-hand experience. This is why I asked you where your info is coming from.
I just gave you the facts -- the sales and the single that was sent out to radio stations ("Gangsta Rap"). We both agree that "Gangsta Rap" got shit radio play the only difference is that you don't believe it got any spins and I know it was played at a minimal level in the LA market. "Change The Game Remix" was a single from Clue that Tha Dogg Pound album piggybacked off of for sales. That's it.
As far as your radio theory, it might be true in some circumstances but Love Rance "Beat The Pussy Up" is a #1 hit record on KMEL in Oakland/San Francisco and they don't even play it in Florida.
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You typing something doesn't make it a fact.You've yet to add any actual proof of what you've written, all I see is just a ton of hearsay and Jimmy correcting all the lies you write.
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You typing something doesn't make it a fact.You've yet to add any actual proof of what you've written, all I see is just a ton of hearsay and Jimmy correcting all the lies you write.
I backed my shit up with facts and linked URLs.
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You've proven gangsta rap was a single and that 2002 peaked at # 15 and nothing else.You've yet to provide proof of 2002 selling 400,00 or any of the other " facts"
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You typing something doesn't make it a fact.You've yet to add any actual proof of what you've written, all I see is just a ton of hearsay and Jimmy correcting all the lies you write.
I backed my shit up with facts and linked URLs.
Can you back up the claim that Suge got the rights for "Change Da Game" in exchange for Jay-Z sampling "Me and My Girlfriend" a year later? Haven't seen that yet.
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We both agree that "Gangsta Rap" got shit radio play the only difference is that you don't believe it got any spins and I know it was played at a minimal level in the LA market. "Change The Game Remix" was a single from Clue that Tha Dogg Pound album piggybacked off of for sales. That's it.
Allow me to break down what I believe so we're not confused. I tend to doubt that "Gangsta Rap" got any spins on LA radio but anything is possible. If a credible person said it got X amount of spins, I might believe it but I tend to think you don't have any idea one way or the other if it did or didn't so I don't believe you. You have this pattern of randomly throwing out stastics about what songs got how much play on what stations or at what clubs but you don't have any real way of knowing. You're basically guessing and trying to pass it off like you're in the know. "Change The Game" remix wasn't a single. It was an album cut from Clue's retail mixtape "Professional 2" that he happened to license to other labels for use on their projet (Death Row being one, Get Low being another). It didn't blow up the radio, hence why there is no record of it on the Billboard hot singles chart.
A lot of time has passed since those days so it's easy to mistake the Jay deal. I confused the two myself in another thread. But Suge was incarcerated when that album was being put together. He didn't have a deal with Jay-Z at that point and given that he ended up with the same tagged remix as everybody else, I doubt Death Row even talked to Jay and likely dealt directly with Clue. The song Suge got for clearing "Me and My Girlfriend" for Jay's album was the remix of "Hovi Baby" that showed up on the Dysfunktional Family soundtrack.
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Love33 is correct about one thing. Gangsta rap did get very minimal play on one of the LA stations (can't remember if it was power or the beat). I ado agree with Jimmy H about the Change Da Game Remix. I highly doubt that got major spin nationwide. I dont even remember really hearing it out here in Cali much. Whatever the album sales were for "2002" can most likely be attributed to marketing/promotion and the guest list. The singles didnt really create any buzz for this album.
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Love33 is correct about one thing. Gangsta rap did get very minimal play on one of the LA stations (can't remember if it was power or the beat). I ado agree with Jimmy H about the Change Da Game Remix. I highly doubt that got major spin nationwide. I dont even remember really hearing it out here in Cali much. Whatever the album sales were for "2002" can most likely be attributed to marketing/promotion and the guest list. The singles didnt really create any buzz for this album.
yeah, I mean when you got 2pac, Crooked I, Snoop, Jay-z etc. guesting on your shit it's gonna sell
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Lmao @ slipping crooked is name among them. He didn't help them sell.
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Can you back up the claim that Suge got the rights for "Change Da Game" in exchange for Jay-Z sampling "Me and My Girlfriend" a year later? Haven't seen that yet.
That can only be proved by asking Suge himself. All we do know is that "Change The Game Remix" sampled Makaveli "Hail Mary" so Clue/Jay-Z would've had to get Suge's permission to use the sample. He could have traded 2 Makaveli samples for rights to release "Change The Game Remix" and a completely different track for Suge's dysfunktional family ("Hovi Baby") for the second sample ("Me and My Girlfriend"). Someone would have to ask Suge the exact deal. But we do know that 2 Makaveli samples were authorized by Death Row that Jay-Z rapped on so of course they were doing business.
Can you back up the claim that Suge got the rights for "Change Da Game" in exchange for Jay-Z sampling "Me and My Girlfriend" a year later? Haven't seen that yet.
My source is Damon X, Above The Law's manager, and ThaRow.Com's admins on the forums for the official Row site confirmed that "Too Gangsta For Radio" and "2002" were "Gold Together." TGFR sold around 30k last I heard, thus Tha Dogg Pound "2002" must be over 400k if they are "Gold Together," as confirmed by the official web admins and damon x. Next, there is no way to RIAA this information because it wasn't a Gold album individually, and also Tha Row never sent in their paperwork so all we have are the billboard chart numbers. D3 would know the exact units but they are now out of operation.
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what kind of a debate is this? ???
arguin over if a song was a single or not for 3 pages? i dont get it..
"Change the game (remix)" was a great song, and the video to the "Dynasty"-version was classic (wit Beanie Sigel stopping the truck wit his body) - id like to hear the o.g. to the remix, wit Bad Azz and 40 Glocc someday
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Can you back up the claim that Suge got the rights for "Change Da Game" in exchange for Jay-Z sampling "Me and My Girlfriend" a year later? Haven't seen that yet.
That can only be proved by asking Suge himself. All we do know is that "Change The Game Remix" sampled Makaveli "Hail Mary" so Clue/Jay-Z would've had to get Suge's permission to use the sample. He could have traded 2 Makaveli samples for rights to release "Change The Game Remix" and a completely different track for Suge's dysfunktional family ("Hovi Baby") for the second sample ("Me and My Girlfriend"). Someone would have to ask Suge the exact deal. But we do know that 2 Makaveli samples were authorized by Death Row that Jay-Z rapped on so of course they were doing business.
According to the credits for that album, there's no sample. Where exactly in the track was "Hail Mary" utilized, someone with an ear for sampling, interpolations, etc. please point this out.
And the bolded proves my point, a lot of this is hearsay.
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I think he's trying to make the argument that since Jay quoted the chorus from "Hail Mary" in that line about Pac that he needed to have the sample cleared. What he doesn't seem to get is that it probably qualifies for "fair use".
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I think he's trying to make the argument that since Jay quoted the chorus from "Hail Mary" in that line about Pac that he needed to have the sample cleared. What he doesn't seem to get is that it probably qualifies for "fair use".
Here's a source: http://www.whosampled.com/sample/view/52059/Jay-Z%20and%20DJ%20Clue%20feat.%20Tha%20Dogg%20Pound,%20Beanie%20Sigel%20and%20Memphis%20Bleek-Change%20the%20Game%20(Remix)_2Pac%20feat.%20Kastro,%20Prince%20Ital%20Joe%20and%20Young%20Noble-Hail%20Mary/
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So you basically have confirmed what I just said. Once again, that more than likely falls under "fair use". It's not a direct sample so while you could make the assumption they would need permission, given the history of rappers flipping lines without needing publishing credit paired with the fact that no credit was given, I think it's safe to say your argument still has no validity in terms of actual proof.
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So two Sites About Jay and Death Row but my question is Why is there a Fred wreck Beat???
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So two Sites About Jay and Death Row but my question is Why is there a Fred wreck Beat???
Daz was still working as lead producer with Death Row and "Gangsta Rap" (the one on "2002") was initially supposed to be the first single for the "Too Gangsta For Radio" compilation album. He teamed up with Kurupt and got Fred Wreck to produce the track. After Suge dismissed Daz as lead producer, Big Hutch took the job. Hutch made a different version of the track and flipped the beat and then put Treach and Scarface on there and that version of "Gangsta Rap" became the new track for the compilation.
Suge later decides he is going to release Tha Dogg Pound "2002" and he decides to have Hutch handle most of the project and the stored track from the vault ends up on the compilation.