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DUBCC - Tha Connection => West Coast Classics => Topic started by: KING YOUNG NIGGA on August 28, 2011, 09:14:05 PM

Title: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: KING YOUNG NIGGA on August 28, 2011, 09:14:05 PM
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Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: love33 on August 28, 2011, 10:06:42 PM
I think Hip Hop has evolved into techno-rap over him, but not the West Coast.  On the West, he's as good as anything we've seen.

As far as being the GOAT of producers, he's top 10, but if he was the GOAT he wouldn't need all these co-producers.  Pac said it best when he said he's a bomb producer, but he doesn't produce anything.
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: Jimmy H. on August 28, 2011, 10:59:52 PM
If Dre stops making music tomorrow, he's still the best producer in hip-hop. His track record speaks for itself. For all the super producers that came around, how many started when he did and are anywhere near still as relevant? How many rappers for that matter came out when N.W.A. did and people are still checking for them?
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: Chamillitary Click on August 29, 2011, 12:08:22 AM
^Was gunna say Jay-Z, but he wasn't even around back then. Well, not well known.

Dre is hands down the best producer. I really don't think it's comparable.
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: Triple OG Rapsodie on August 29, 2011, 12:16:03 AM
He's in the top 5 as far as GOAT hip hop producers, along with RZA, Primo, Prince Paul and Pete Rock. Whatever wack shit he puts out nowadays isn't going to take away from his past accomplishments.
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: b.laden on August 29, 2011, 12:47:24 AM
he was probably the goat in 1993 when he produced these NWA classics, his solo and doggystyle but not after that
chronic 2001 is overrated ..
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: samutahjazz on August 29, 2011, 01:05:00 AM
He's in the top 5 as far as GOAT hip hop producers, along with RZA, Primo, Prince Paul and Pete Rock. Whatever wack shit he puts out nowadays isn't going to take away from his past accomplishments.

bro he is top 1 no contest. and prince paul is cool, i like the shit he did with breezley brewin, but a top 5 producer? nahhh. i would put mike dean on that list. theres a lot of super old school cats who you could interchange in that list too but overall pretty good top 5.
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: Triple OG Rapsodie on August 29, 2011, 01:34:34 AM
He's in the top 5 as far as GOAT hip hop producers, along with RZA, Primo, Prince Paul and Pete Rock. Whatever wack shit he puts out nowadays isn't going to take away from his past accomplishments.

bro he is top 1 no contest. and prince paul is cool, i like the shit he did with breezley brewin, but a top 5 producer? nahhh. i would put mike dean on that list. theres a lot of super old school cats who you could interchange in that list too but overall pretty good top 5.

Prince Paul is def. top 5 material. He's been producing on classics as long as Dre, plus he put out one of the greatest albums of all time. And I'd put RZA above Dre for all the classic Wu albums. Not only that but the guy is still relevant today. He's transcended the role of hip hop producer to the point where he's scoring soundtracks for movies. One of Dr. Dre's goals is to score movies, something which the RZA has already accomplished. My list probably goes RZA, Dre, Primo, Prince Paul, Pete Rock.
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: J-FUNKTION on August 29, 2011, 05:57:40 AM
he was probably the goat in 1993 when he produced these NWA classics, his solo and doggystyle but not after that
chronic 2001 is overrated ..

this...thank god someone else realizes this...

i bought it the day it dropped..skipped my first class...and i was disapointed them..good album..but expectations were higher..
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: bouli77 on August 29, 2011, 01:12:23 PM
he was probably the goat in 1993 when he produced these NWA classics, his solo and doggystyle but not after that
chronic 2001 is overrated ..

this...thank god someone else realizes this...

i bought it the day it dropped..skipped my first class...and i was disapointed them..good album..but expectations were higher..

a lot of listeners from the chronic era were disappointed by 2001, at least those that i know. i personally don't even own the album. the production is fucking crazy though. and it's an indisputable classic just for the enormous impact it had on the industry. shit literally changed the game. that's the album that confirmed his legendary status and reestablished his relevance after 3 rather difficult years.
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: BOX5 the best poster on this site yell on August 29, 2011, 04:21:22 PM
I think Hip Hop has evolved into techno-rap over him, but not the West Coast.  On the West, he's as good as anything we've seen.

As far as being the GOAT of producers, he's top 10, but if he was the GOAT he wouldn't need all these co-producers.  Pac said it best when he said he's a bomb producer, but he doesn't produce anything.

you know dre started off doing that club type of music right, with brother arab etc, you know that shit was the west coast style in the early 80's, just some history my equal yell
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: BOX5 the best poster on this site yell on August 29, 2011, 04:22:20 PM
just was electro and not techno, but shit was all party music yell
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: Jimmy H. on August 29, 2011, 05:30:42 PM
Prince Paul is def. top 5 material. He's been producing on classics as long as Dre, plus he put out one of the greatest albums of all time. And I'd put RZA above Dre for all the classic Wu albums. Not only that but the guy is still relevant today. He's transcended the role of hip hop producer to the point where he's scoring soundtracks for movies. One of Dr. Dre's goals is to score movies, something which the RZA has already accomplished. My list probably goes RZA, Dre, Primo, Prince Paul, Pete Rock.
Dre did some scoring on "Bad Boys 2". I would put RZA up there as well but I feel like he gets a pass in areas where nobody would ever let Dre slide. He's kind of allowed to just make good music without people holding up the classics he's done for comparative purposes. It's like this. I don't think Michael Jackson ever topped "Thriller" but he was still an icon until the day he died because he created that blueprint for the guys who became the new stars like Usher and Justin Timberlake. Same with Madonna and her influence on Britney and Lady Gaga. Same with Nate Dogg and these artists who came through today.
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: k-dogg on August 29, 2011, 05:34:57 PM
Damn...Everyone is entitled to their own opiniion but a West Coast board and Dre is barely 50%...A damn shame really cause not a producer named had had the impact of Dr. Dre productions overall...I mean it is not even close and that includes Primo and RZA both of whom I respect very much. Who knows the percentage of these posts are actually West Coast hip hop fans but there is a reason that The Chronic  sold 3/4 mil, Doggystyle 4/5 mil, Chronic 2001 6/7mil, all the Emiinem stuff, (greatest selling rapper of all time) and that does not include all the NWA classics and the stuff that just went Gold....All the other producers names would love, just love to go GOLD more often let alone multiple platinum. Prince Paul??  Respect due but .....Damn. Ok, Give  RZA credit for his movie scores but what else was he going to do? For all the Wu_Tang hype and I love them, as a collective group, their 1st CD was by FAR the best and best selling. Other than die-hard RZA fans, the same sound  just got tired and boring. Yes, Raekwon had A classic. Ok. None of the producers name ever never ever actually changed the course of hip hop. Dre did this after NWA, after The Chronic, again after Doggystyle and after Chronic 2001. Truth Hurts,  The Wash, Dre presents the Aftermath, Busta's joint????? Most of these other dudes would be proud but because of earlier sucesses, these dope albums were considered mild disappointments. Really??  All this bullshit talk bout Dre don't produce this, Dre don't really produce that, Really??. Just shut the Fuck up!!!  Where is Scott Storch now, All the Death Row producers,including DaZ.  Why can't Khalilll really blow up?? Anyone seen the great Mel Man?? Fuck outta here.    
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Detox Is A Myth!!! on August 29, 2011, 05:43:45 PM
Dr. Dre is the greatest producer in the history of hip hop, but he is well past his prime.  Right now, he is barely above average as a producer.  Clearly his artistic skills are declining.  Mind you, I'm not talking about pure studio craft, but the artistry that enables a piece of music to transcend its genre confines and become something more than what it is on the surface.

I'm one of those Chronic era listeners referred to earlier in the thread, and I'm glad b. laden brought it up, because while 2001 is imo the greatest mixed and mastered (and overall engineered) hip hop album of all time, the actual musicality of it for me is clearly a step down from Dre's prime, which was his three album run with Elife4zaggin, Chronic and Doggystyle.  That's why I frequently say I won't truly get excited about Dre's current music until I see him get back to work with people with whom he collaborated during his prime, such as The Glove and Colin Wolfe.  I really don't care about Scott Storch's involvement, to be honest with you.  I could take it or leave it.

Anyway, I've used this analogy before, but I'll repeat it here because I think it fits well.


Basically, at this point, I expect Dre to continue to decline as the years progress.  Artists are like athletes in that you rise and fall, peak and decline.  I mean, after Quincy Jones produced Thriller, it was a gradual decline after that.  Same thing with Dre and The Chronic, his best album (artistically speaking).
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: Triple OG Rapsodie on August 29, 2011, 08:32:21 PM
Prince Paul is def. top 5 material. He's been producing on classics as long as Dre, plus he put out one of the greatest albums of all time. And I'd put RZA above Dre for all the classic Wu albums. Not only that but the guy is still relevant today. He's transcended the role of hip hop producer to the point where he's scoring soundtracks for movies. One of Dr. Dre's goals is to score movies, something which the RZA has already accomplished. My list probably goes RZA, Dre, Primo, Prince Paul, Pete Rock.
Dre did some scoring on "Bad Boys 2". I would put RZA up there as well but I feel like he gets a pass in areas where nobody would ever let Dre slide. He's kind of allowed to just make good music without people holding up the classics he's done for comparative purposes. It's like this. I don't think Michael Jackson ever topped "Thriller" but he was still an icon until the day he died because he created that blueprint for the guys who became the new stars like Usher and Justin Timberlake. Same with Madonna and her influence on Britney and Lady Gaga. Same with Nate Dogg and these artists who came through today.

You missed the point completely.

He's in the top 5 as far as GOAT hip hop producers, along with RZA, Primo, Prince Paul and Pete Rock. Whatever wack shit he puts out nowadays isn't going to take away from his past accomplishments.

Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Jimmy H. on August 29, 2011, 10:18:19 PM
Basically, at this point, I expect Dre to continue to decline as the years progress.  Artists are like athletes in that you rise and fall, peak and decline.  I mean, after Quincy Jones produced Thriller, it was a gradual decline after that.  Same thing with Dre and The Chronic, his best album (artistically speaking).
No, artists are not like athletes. Athletes' bodies break down as they get older. No matter how much heart or natural talent a 45-year-old man has, he needs to work much, much harder to keep up with a twenty-year-old on a physical level. The reason that Michael Jordan was so mediocre on the Wizards is because he no longer had a young man's body.

Music producers are not the same. A guy in his 40's, 50's, 60's, can still make great music. There is the challenge, creatively, to top what you have created before, but it is FAR, FAR more acheivable on a technical level for an older music producer to compete with a younger one than it is for an athlete to keep up with his younger peers. And your Quincy Jones analogy don't much work. Quincy was pushing 50 with thirty years in the music business when he made "Thriller". He was about Dre's age now when he first started working with Michael Jackson. And maybe you have more info than I do but what is this "gradual decline" you're speaking on? He followed it up with "Bad", which was a huge hit in his own right. Following that, he moved into other business ventures like Vibe Magazine and "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air". I mean, what were these post-Thriller productions you seem to think resulted in his decline anyway?
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: I_ThePope_I on August 29, 2011, 11:49:24 PM
Yes Dre is the best producer ever and he's better than he's ever been sonically, as shown on Relapse.
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Fonkarround on August 30, 2011, 04:58:48 AM
Yes Dre is the best producer ever and he's better than he's ever been sonically, as shown on Relapse.
It was average album. I wouldnt say it was on higher level than anything from Dre.
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Dre-Day on August 30, 2011, 07:22:04 AM
Dr. Dre is the greatest producer in the history of hip hop, but he is well past his prime.  Right now, he is barely above average as a producer.  Clearly his artistic skills are declining.  Mind you, I'm not talking about pure studio craft, but the artistry that enables a piece of music to transcend its genre confines and become something more than what it is on the surface.

I'm one of those Chronic era listeners referred to earlier in the thread, and I'm glad b. laden brought it up, because while 2001 is imo the greatest mixed and mastered (and overall engineered) hip hop album of all time, the actual musicality of it for me is clearly a step down from Dre's prime, which was his three album run with Elife4zaggin, Chronic and Doggystyle.  That's why I frequently say I won't truly get excited about Dre's current music until I see him get back to work with people with whom he collaborated during his prime, such as The Glove and Colin Wolfe.  I really don't care about Scott Storch's involvement, to be honest with you.  I could take it or leave it.
you really expect them to bring dre back on track?  :P they are talented, but don't be foolish

Anyway, I've used this analogy before, but I'll repeat it here because I think it fits well.

  • Straight Outta Compton and prior = Michael Jordan in the mid-to-late 80s, when you could tell both had amazing pure talent; they just had to learn had to package it all together
  • The three album run I mentioned earlier = Michael Jordan during his first three-peat
  • Then you have the sort of Death Row fallout and Aftermath compilation/Firm flop = MJ's turn to baseball and return with the #45 jersey
  • 2001 = MJ's second three-peat; you could tell Dre and MJ in both situations were not as good as they had been earlier in the primes, but since they were so far ahead of the pack in their primes, even with some fall off they were still best in the game
  • post 2001 to around 2006 = MJ with the Wizards; still very good at what they do, but the decline was evident to even the casual observer
  • And today's Dre and henceforth = post-Wizards MJ had he not gotten injured, barely above average, if that.

Basically, at this point, I expect Dre to continue to decline as the years progress.  Artists are like athletes in that you rise and fall, peak and decline.  I mean, after Quincy Jones produced Thriller, it was a gradual decline after that.  Same thing with Dre and The Chronic, his best album (artistically speaking).
i don't think dre can do worse, the timbaland influence is bad enough
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Darkwing Duck (The Reincarnation) on August 30, 2011, 07:43:03 AM
"wine gets better wit time", thats  the slang.. but the analogy isnt correct wit music imo. acting, sure -- but not in music i think.

composers n artists r always havin a hard time, when theyre tryin to transcend thruout their original music-barriers. it happens,, but its not common
producers like Quioncy Jones, artis like Michael Jackson, rappers like Busta Rhymes n E-40 managed to re-invent themselves wit great results, n manaegd to cater to new generations

but generally, artists taht had a "peak" in the careers, had just that -- a "peak" n nothin more,, n then never managed to keep up thruout the yrs.
Dr Dre is followin the same path of GOAT-producers from his generation,,, Primo, Large Pro, Pete Rock, Erick Sermon... the old cancer-patients r dyin slowly

they can boost up their talents in what they know how "to do",, but the transcference into new musical territory every 10yrs or so is rare.

Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: bouli77 on August 30, 2011, 11:17:24 AM
"wine gets better wit time", thats  the slang.. but the analogy isnt correct wit music imo. acting, sure -- but not in music i think.

wine gets better with time but not winemakers. the best music produced by dre is timeless but his creativity isn't.
Title: Re: Has the WESTCOAST AND HIP HOP passed DR DRE AND is he really the GOAT PRODUCER?
Post by: Black Excellence on November 13, 2011, 02:19:52 PM
it seems that way.

As far as being the GOAT of producers, he's top 10, but if he was the GOAT he wouldn't need all these co-producers.  Pac said it best when he said he's a bomb producer, but he doesn't produce anything. damn pac said that in 96.
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: hitsaw on November 13, 2011, 02:33:30 PM
Andre is the GOAT
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Black Excellence on November 13, 2011, 02:54:53 PM
Andre is the GOAT
i think i'll go wit dj premier.
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: The Predator on November 13, 2011, 04:41:07 PM
Dre was the best of the best.

If anyone can rejuvenate hip-hop it's him, but he's struggling.









Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Dre-Day on November 14, 2011, 12:19:36 AM
Dre was the best of the best.

If anyone can rejuvenate hip-hop it's him, but he's struggling.
true
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: trilly on November 14, 2011, 02:04:56 AM
Dre was the west a long time ago, he is no longer relevant, there is a new breed of westcoast.

The forefront runners are artist like Kendrick or Dom Kennedy or even cats like Casey Veggies.  The game has changed, you have a new west coast sound and new flavor in the streets, there is more attention to the lyrics and more jazz, slow drum patterns.  Dre really needs to be selective about this album because by all means, nowadays, "Detox" could really be a dud.
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: o g s u e s o n e on November 14, 2011, 06:33:24 AM
I would say he´s the better mixer but not the GOAT producer. Yall know that theres always a production team behind him. Mixing that work to a highclass beat, thats dres goal.
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Triple OG Rapsodie on November 14, 2011, 08:41:02 AM
Hip hop is better right now than it has been in years. What could Dre possibly do to rejuvenate it? At best all he is going to do is put out an album full of party jams and beats that go. And that's IF his album is good. His having an impact is far more likely to just dumb the music down. Just look at his protege.
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Black Excellence on November 14, 2011, 05:11:42 PM
Dre was the west a long time ago, he is no longer relevant, there is a new breed of westcoast.

The forefront runners are artist like Kendrick or Dom Kennedy or even cats like Casey Veggies.  The game has changed, you have a new west coast sound and new flavor in the streets, there is more attention to the lyrics and more jazz, slow drum patterns.  Dre really needs to be selective about this album because by all means, nowadays, "Detox" could really be a dud.
amen.
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: sdmaxx1 on November 16, 2011, 05:44:33 AM
WEST COAST HAS ALWAYZ BEEN DPGC! Its all about DAZ, SOOPAFLY on production! Im telling you homie Dr Dre made sick ass beats in the 90's but his sound is nothing like that anymore he waiting to long and to much happend while he has been on the downlow the game has changed, Everyone wants Dre to make them beats like he used to but if you think about it that whole Death Row sound pretty much Daz and Soopafly have kept that hardcore gfunk beats alive and still have the same formula as back then. Dr Dre has talent up the ass but isnt into the old sound like he started with hes into this new basic shit which sounds like everyone else. The doggpound
albums is where its at thats the allstar cast! DAZ and SOOPAFLY on production is where the future is at oh yeh and DJ QUIK!
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Triple OG Rapsodie on November 16, 2011, 09:31:20 AM
WEST COAST HAS ALWAYZ BEEN DPGC! Its all about DAZ, SOOPAFLY on production! Im telling you homie Dr Dre made sick ass beats in the 90's but his sound is nothing like that anymore he waiting to long and to much happend while he has been on the downlow the game has changed, Everyone wants Dre to make them beats like he used to but if you think about it that whole Death Row sound pretty much Daz and Soopafly have kept that hardcore gfunk beats alive and still have the same formula as back then. Dr Dre has talent up the ass but isnt into the old sound like he started with hes into this new basic shit which sounds like everyone else. The doggpound
albums is where its at thats the allstar cast! DAZ and SOOPAFLY on production is where the future is at oh yeh and DJ QUIK!

Those people are even less relevant to hip hop than Dre
Title: Re: Has the West Coast and Hip-Hop passed Dr Dre and is he really the GOAT producer?
Post by: Dre-Day on November 16, 2011, 09:37:03 AM
WEST COAST HAS ALWAYZ BEEN DPGC! Its all about DAZ, SOOPAFLY on production! Im telling you homie Dr Dre made sick ass beats in the 90's but his sound is nothing like that anymore he waiting to long and to much happend while he has been on the downlow the game has changed, Everyone wants Dre to make them beats like he used to but if you think about it that whole Death Row sound pretty much Daz and Soopafly have kept that hardcore gfunk beats alive and still have the same formula as back then. Dr Dre has talent up the ass but isnt into the old sound like he started with hes into this new basic shit which sounds like everyone else. The doggpound
albums is where its at thats the allstar cast! DAZ and SOOPAFLY on production is where the future is at oh yeh and DJ QUIK!

Those people are even less relevant to hip hop than Dre
yeah lol.