West Coast Connection Forum
DUBCC - Tha Connection => Outbound Connection => Topic started by: Tanjential on August 29, 2011, 06:39:19 PM
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I feel like it's a factual statement. Some homies and I just got into a ridiculously involved discussion because they disagree with me.
I trust y'all.
Thoughts?
-T
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well, Jay-Z sure as hell isnt a producer
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I mean, Kanye West is in fact a producer & Jay-Z is in fact a rapper...is this a trick question?
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Nah, no trick. They were disputing that it's a fact, we all agreed with the basic sentiment.
They're saying it's an opinion.
I don't think it's an opinion that ultimately that's what they are.
I guess I feel like I'm being factual because I'm ignoring what the rappers would have us believe (Kanye would like us to believe he is a 'rapper') but my friends feel it's more 'factual' to include the fact that Kanye is also a rapper.
The way I see it it's like, yeah and Snoop could start playing the flute, I don't give a fuck. Dude is a rapper and that's what I'll judge him by.
I'll give you guys more context of the discussion I just had as we get deeper into the discussion but I don't want to color you guys' thoughts with the argument I just had cause I know you guys already have thoughts on this kind of thing.
+1 those in the thread so far.
Thanks
-T
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Yes Kanye produces and Jay-Z raps...
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Well I would say Kanye is a producer and then a rapper. He's made enough quality albums to be considered a dual threat. Jay-Z is just a rapper.
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Are you high right now?
Kanye West is a great producer and a great rapper. Jay-Z is a great rapper and not a producer... Pretty damn simple...
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Is Kanye a great rapper? Sure, he's a rapper, but a great one? Dude knows how to maked dope songs and albums, no question.
And yes, Jigga's a rapper ;D
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if you are trying to argue that kanye is somehow NOT a rapper just because his a great producer and his raps arent AMAZING enough for him deserve the label of rapper then shut up
if you arent trying to argue that then i have no idea what you mean
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The way I see it it's like, yeah and Snoop could start playing the flute, I don't give a fuck. Dude is a rapper and that's what I'll judge him by.
Not really true. People are complex, if Kanye started rappin somehow, he is a rapper. Snoop started making beats as a Niggarachi, so hes a beatmaker too.
But Kanye should stick to producing, at least we dont have to hear his gay voice.
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I agree with the statement but I think Kanye is underrated as a rapper, he's pretty dope IMO
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regardless of whether he's dope or not Kanye is a professional rapper too and that's a fact. dude has released a slew of solo albums where he raps for a living. therefore he is in fact a rapper too, albeit that's not what he excels the most in.
I understand where you're coming from though. if Kanye had only dabbled in rapping, i would agree with you but he's a rapper in his own right, unlike other producers who occasionally rap/sing like, say, Teddy Riley or Battlecat. now you couln't really say TR is a singer and BC is a rapper but both have done it on wax at one point in their career, but they didn't pursue a career in it, unlike Kanye. just like Dr. Dre isn't a video director although he has directed a few videos, etc.
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what is that an SAT question?
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Kanye West has 6 rap albums
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Wow.. is this a troll thread?! Kanye west is probably one of the top MAINSTREAM rappers that I can actually listen to... Yes he is a rapper and a great producer... So I guess DJ QUIK is not a rapper either now?! ::)
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Jay Z is a producer and Kanye is a rapper.
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Jazzy Jeff is the DJ and Fresh Prince is the rapper.
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Kanye West is way better than DJ Quik as a rapper
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I think he's a rapper like Dr.Dre, Warren G and other cats are. Someone else said it earlier, he knows how to make dope songs of both....
I guess to me it was factual to say that when you strip it all away, dude is a producer and other dude is a rapper.
Like I used to hate when people would compare Dre to other rappers because to me that missed the point of the rubric you would accurately judge that artist on.
I am not denying his success, nor am I hating, I agree that he is among the most listenable mainstream hip hop acts out.
That said, was Miles Davis that good at guitar? I don't know, I like to hear him play trumpet.
That was where I was coming from but my buddy was saying what a lot of cats here are, that he has put in the work to be a rapper so I guess I can't deny that.
I do wonder through...is there a line? Like some musical artists do their own album artwork...do we gotta call them painters now and incorporate that into how we define them when we assess them? Would it be inaccurate to call such artists 'musicians' and leaving out the other stuff they do?
I mean, does there not come a point where we can't keep track of all the shit an artist does and just remember them for what they're really good at?
To be more specific, maybe there's a substantial difference between Kanye making 6 rap albums and Snoop making a handful of Niggarachi beats? I haven't been following dude really, how much stuff about has Snoop produced as niggarachi?
That said, I agree with most points said in response to what I put forth, I just like to really keep breaking shit down so I continue to play devil's advocate. Thanks for the input guys
-T
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but kanye is successfull as both producer and rapper. its nothing like snoop making some tracks, it nothing like dre doing the odd verse, nothing like miles playing guitar, nothing like musicians doing the odd painting, nothing like anything youve mentioned.
dude is accomplished in both fields. why do you have to pick one label and put him in the box?
forget about his albums, people pay for a kanye guest feature! i think that says enough
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but kanye is successfull as both producer and rapper. its nothing like snoop making some tracks, it nothing like dre doing the odd verse, nothing like miles playing guitar, nothing like musicians doing the odd painting, nothing like anything youve mentioned.
dude is accomplished in both fields. why do you have to pick one label and put him in the box?
forget about his albums, people pay for a kanye guest feature! i think that says enough
thank you, that was exactly my point. at this point i'm sure if you ask random people, more would know about kanye's accomplishments as a rapper than as a producer.
That said, was Miles Davis that good at guitar? I don't know, I like to hear him play trumpet.
liking is subjective, facts are facts. Kanye has been a professional rapper for a while and has been successful at it, it's his main activity with being a producer, he is a full-fledged rapper (and a successful one), that's a fact.
I do wonder through...is there a line? Like some musical artists do their own album artwork...do we gotta call them painters now and incorporate that into how we define them when we assess them? Would it be inaccurate to call such artists 'musicians' and leaving out the other stuff they do?
well if they do their own album artwork and only that we can't really call them painters cause it's not their professional activity. on the other hand, if people pay them to do other people's album artwork or if they have set up their own company and provide such services or if they expose their creations in galleries and shit and get acknowleged for it then we can say that they're also painters.
to me it's all about whether you dedicate yourself to it and do it for a living or for fun... Snoop Dogg has starred in movies, I wouldn't call him an actor though, because he did it cause he had the opportunity to do it but didn't dedicate himself to the craft of acting and chose to pursue an active career as an actor, which Kanye did as a rapper. Will Smith was a successful rapper and then chose to do movies in which he was even more successful...
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hes a producer that raps.. hows that?
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I think he's a rapper like Dr.Dre, Warren G and other cats are. Someone else said it earlier, he knows how to make dope songs of both....
I guess to me it was factual to say that when you strip it all away, dude is a producer and other dude is a rapper.
Like I used to hate when people would compare Dre to other rappers because to me that missed the point of the rubric you would accurately judge that artist on.
I am not denying his success, nor am I hating, I agree that he is among the most listenable mainstream hip hop acts out.
That said, was Miles Davis that good at guitar? I don't know, I like to hear him play trumpet.
That was where I was coming from but my buddy was saying what a lot of cats here are, that he has put in the work to be a rapper so I guess I can't deny that.
I do wonder through...is there a line? Like some musical artists do their own album artwork...do we gotta call them painters now and incorporate that into how we define them when we assess them? Would it be inaccurate to call such artists 'musicians' and leaving out the other stuff they do?
I mean, does there not come a point where we can't keep track of all the shit an artist does and just remember them for what they're really good at?
To be more specific, maybe there's a substantial difference between Kanye making 6 rap albums and Snoop making a handful of Niggarachi beats? I haven't been following dude really, how much stuff about has Snoop produced as niggarachi?
That said, I agree with most points said in response to what I put forth, I just like to really keep breaking shit down so I continue to play devil's advocate. Thanks for the input guys
-T
well what would you call mf doom?
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I think he's a rapper like Dr.Dre, Warren G and other cats are. Someone else said it earlier, he knows how to make dope songs of both....
I guess to me it was factual to say that when you strip it all away, dude is a producer and other dude is a rapper.
Like I used to hate when people would compare Dre to other rappers because to me that missed the point of the rubric you would accurately judge that artist on.
I am not denying his success, nor am I hating, I agree that he is among the most listenable mainstream hip hop acts out.
That said, was Miles Davis that good at guitar? I don't know, I like to hear him play trumpet.
That was where I was coming from but my buddy was saying what a lot of cats here are, that he has put in the work to be a rapper so I guess I can't deny that.
I do wonder through...is there a line? Like some musical artists do their own album artwork...do we gotta call them painters now and incorporate that into how we define them when we assess them? Would it be inaccurate to call such artists 'musicians' and leaving out the other stuff they do?
I mean, does there not come a point where we can't keep track of all the shit an artist does and just remember them for what they're really good at?
To be more specific, maybe there's a substantial difference between Kanye making 6 rap albums and Snoop making a handful of Niggarachi beats? I haven't been following dude really, how much stuff about has Snoop produced as niggarachi?
That said, I agree with most points said in response to what I put forth, I just like to really keep breaking shit down so I continue to play devil's advocate. Thanks for the input guys
-T
well what would you call mf doom?
a lazy motherfucker that hasnt made a beat in a decade? lol
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Kanye already has the legacy of being an artist. That's not going to change.
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wait, kanye is a producer? i thought jay z sang ???
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I think he's a rapper like Dr.Dre, Warren G and other cats are. Someone else said it earlier, he knows how to make dope songs of both....
I guess to me it was factual to say that when you strip it all away, dude is a producer and other dude is a rapper.
Like I used to hate when people would compare Dre to other rappers because to me that missed the point of the rubric you would accurately judge that artist on.
I am not denying his success, nor am I hating, I agree that he is among the most listenable mainstream hip hop acts out.
That said, was Miles Davis that good at guitar? I don't know, I like to hear him play trumpet.
That was where I was coming from but my buddy was saying what a lot of cats here are, that he has put in the work to be a rapper so I guess I can't deny that.
I do wonder through...is there a line? Like some musical artists do their own album artwork...do we gotta call them painters now and incorporate that into how we define them when we assess them? Would it be inaccurate to call such artists 'musicians' and leaving out the other stuff they do?
I mean, does there not come a point where we can't keep track of all the shit an artist does and just remember them for what they're really good at?
To be more specific, maybe there's a substantial difference between Kanye making 6 rap albums and Snoop making a handful of Niggarachi beats? I haven't been following dude really, how much stuff about has Snoop produced as niggarachi?
That said, I agree with most points said in response to what I put forth, I just like to really keep breaking shit down so I continue to play devil's advocate. Thanks for the input guys
-T
well what would you call mf doom?
a lazy motherfucker that hasnt made a beat in a decade? lol
he makes his own beats
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I think he's a rapper like Dr.Dre, Warren G and other cats are. Someone else said it earlier, he knows how to make dope songs of both....
I guess to me it was factual to say that when you strip it all away, dude is a producer and other dude is a rapper.
Like I used to hate when people would compare Dre to other rappers because to me that missed the point of the rubric you would accurately judge that artist on.
I am not denying his success, nor am I hating, I agree that he is among the most listenable mainstream hip hop acts out.
That said, was Miles Davis that good at guitar? I don't know, I like to hear him play trumpet.
That was where I was coming from but my buddy was saying what a lot of cats here are, that he has put in the work to be a rapper so I guess I can't deny that.
I do wonder through...is there a line? Like some musical artists do their own album artwork...do we gotta call them painters now and incorporate that into how we define them when we assess them? Would it be inaccurate to call such artists 'musicians' and leaving out the other stuff they do?
I mean, does there not come a point where we can't keep track of all the shit an artist does and just remember them for what they're really good at?
To be more specific, maybe there's a substantial difference between Kanye making 6 rap albums and Snoop making a handful of Niggarachi beats? I haven't been following dude really, how much stuff about has Snoop produced as niggarachi?
That said, I agree with most points said in response to what I put forth, I just like to really keep breaking shit down so I continue to play devil's advocate. Thanks for the input guys
-T
well what would you call mf doom?
a lazy motherfucker that hasnt made a beat in a decade? lol
he makes his own beats
oh word. but im having a joke about the fact that he is still using the same beats he made 10 years ago. whens the last time doom made a new beat
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I see the points you guys are making, but just to continue the discussion... i don't think the fact that you get paid to do a certain kind of service even makes you 'that' for real.
Like someone just said, people have paid Snoop to act in their films. Because he's an actor? No, but he's a big name and they can.
I know cats have had Kanye do features but I call that a rapper slumber party between a bunch of artists that know each other and hang out, or some less prominent artist that wants the clout of a Kanye verse on his shit and not say, "Kind of Blue" in which Miles Davis and Coltrane put together a virtuoso piece of art together.
someone said earlier, people know him for his raps...well people "know" Dre for his raps too and the average person doesn't know Dre makes beats so that perspective doesn't really mean anything to me. S'why I talk to knowledgeable heads such as y'all. Good discussion, good points all.
-T
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Like someone just said, people have paid Snoop to act in their films. Because he's an actor? No, but he's a big name and they can.
sometimes yeah like in old school, but in shit like starsky and hutch he was really the best fit for the role. not a very wide range for an actor but hes still an actor.
I know cats have had Kanye do features but I call that a rapper slumber party between a bunch of artists that know each other and hang out
:camp: :camp: :camp:
.well people "know" Dre for his raps too and the average person doesn't know Dre makes beats so that perspective doesn't really mean anything to me.
the average person who knows who dre is in the first place knows that he makes beats. youre tripping
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well, yea, kanye started off as a producer. he's like a dr. dre with a lot less talent. do ur friends argue that dre is a rapper? kanye and dre are rappers in the same sense. they're producers first and foremost and rappers second...i guess thats the best way 2 put it.
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well, yea, kanye started off as a producer. he's like a dr. dre with a lot less talent. do ur friends argue that dre is a rapper? kanye and dre are rappers in the same sense. they're producers first and foremost and rappers second...i guess thats the best way 2 put it.
word... he's a far less talented version of Dre. He even said that "XXxplosive" was basically the whole inspiration and idea behind what he does as a producer
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well, yea, kanye started off as a producer. he's like a dr. dre with a lot less talent. do ur friends argue that dre is a rapper? kanye and dre are rappers in the same sense. they're producers first and foremost and rappers second...i guess thats the best way 2 put it.
word... he's a far less talented version of Dre. He even said that "XXxplosive" was basically the whole inspiration and idea behind what he does as a producer
funny, because "xxplosive" is nothin like his style...in fact i dont think ive ever heard a kanye beat that sounds dre influenced.
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well, yea, kanye started off as a producer. he's like a dr. dre with a lot less talent. do ur friends argue that dre is a rapper? kanye and dre are rappers in the same sense. they're producers first and foremost and rappers second...i guess thats the best way 2 put it.
Dre doesn't even write his own rhymes.
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hes a producer and a rapper. there are a lot of kanye songs where he isnt the producer as well. so yeah, he is both.
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well, yea, kanye started off as a producer. he's like a dr. dre with a lot less talent. do ur friends argue that dre is a rapper? kanye and dre are rappers in the same sense. they're producers first and foremost and rappers second...i guess thats the best way 2 put it.
I agree with this but I recognize the points presented by others that contest this view.
Muhfukka: I agree that the 'slumber party' shit is like some shit little giggly middle schoolers do, and not a piece of art I should be using to anoint a lackluster or second tier performer with yet another professional title.
and the average person, and maybe this is just the cats I've talked to in Cali, where I live, knows Dre for pop songs like G Thang and stuff from '2001'. They don't know he made those or any other beats. Just my observations.
sure, you can make an argument for Snoop as an actor. But let's just admit that when we do that, we're casting a pretty wide net, yeah?
-T
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so... is Will Smith a rapper or actor?