West Coast Connection Forum
Lifestyle => Sports & Entertainment => Topic started by: Shallow on April 06, 2012, 06:03:30 AM
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This is getting worse than the steroids scandal in the baseball when everyone that you know was juicing up in arms over the next guy getting caught.
Greg Williams was a pupil of Buddy Ryan, who taught him how to coach football. Anyone actually believe Buddy just made it up himself. Trying to hurt the other team has been a part of the game for decades. Of course Williams just gets to be the scapegoat. No one wants to bring in the likelihood that both the 85 Bears and the SB3 Jets were being coached to injure the other teams stars. No one wants to hear what was said inside the locker room by Vince Lombardi when he wanted his team to make sure they didn't come up short. What about the Steel Curtain? Jack Lambert retired from football and then armed himself with a rifle and patrolled the border looking for Mexicans. You don't think a guy like that was trying to hurt people on the field.
What Greg Williams was caught for was something that happens and has been happening in the NFL for a very long time. The problem is the Saints got cocky with it, and that's why they're being punished. And shame on every idiot that's been in the league for their entire adult lives acting like they never imagined anything like this could happen.
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Captain obvious to the rescue!
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Captain obvious to the rescue!
I just hate the way all these clowns are pretending to be offended. It's the same reason Bellicheck ran up the score the most on the teams with coaches that publicly came out against Spygate. He was getting back at them for trying to sit on their high horses, but they were all full of shit.
And now a great defensive coach is going to get blackballed for doing what so many other greats had done. No Greg Williams equals no 09 Saints Superbowl. It's as simple as that. His coaching style was just as important as Payton and Brees. The Vikes would have ate them up.
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Agreed.
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I don't know. I can imagine saying "knock this guys head off". Or, let's hit Crabtee and see if he's for real or not.
But telling them to purposely try to tear a guys ACL. That's bullshit.
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Why do you think all these defensive players of other teams & defending him? It's a common thing inside a NFL lockeroom.
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he'll never coach again
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Why do you think all these defensive players of other teams & defending him? It's a common thing inside a NFL lockeroom.
I don't see a coach like Marty Shottenhiemer ever saying some trash like that. Or Marv Levy. Or Mike Tomlin. Coaches with integrity and dignity.
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Why do you think all these defensive players of other teams & defending him? It's a common thing inside a NFL lockeroom.
I don't see a coach like Marty Shottenhiemer ever saying some trash like that. Or Marv Levy. Or Mike Tomlin. Coaches with integrity and dignity.
I'm not saying every coach does it. I'd actually be shocked tohear a guy like Dungy saying something like that. But some of the most revered defensive coaches and players in NFL history were honest to goodness assholes. The 85 Bears are the epitome of great NFL defense, and if anyone thinks those guys weren't doing the same thing they're crazy. Lombardi's Packers. Dick Butkus. Night Train Lane. All of these guys were trying to injure people. And especially in the eras where the salaries were very low, there's no way there wasn't money-incentive programs going on.
Marty and Marv probably would have won one if they coached with a little less morailty. Dungy kind og back doored his way into a title. And Tomlin is about as in charge of his defense as I am.
And I'll say this, what James Harrison did to Colt McCoy was worse, light years worse, than targeting a guys bad ACL. A completely defenseless QB with no chance of attempting to run and a clear pass thrown and Harrison went helmet to helmet like a truck. If a guy on my team that I was coaching did that I'd send I'd eject him from the game before the refs even threw the flag. All class Mike Tomlin didn't say boo.
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Yeah I can see talking about knocking dudes out and shit like that but the whole "ACL" thing was the part that bothered me. Not saying it doesn't happen elsewhere, just a bitch move.
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I don't know. I can imagine saying "knock this guys head off". Or, let's hit Crabtee and see if he's for real or not.
But telling them to purposely try to tear a guys ACL. That's bullshit.
Agreed.
Nothing wrong with inspiring physical football, but once you start calling for ACL tears, that's too far.
Williams is a great coach, he should always be known as a great coach.
But the guy clearly has some screws loose and he'll never ever coach again.
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And I'll say this, what James Harrison did to Colt McCoy was worse, light years worse, than targeting a guys bad ACL. A completely defenseless QB with no chance of attempting to run and a clear pass thrown and Harrison went helmet to helmet like a truck. If a guy on my team that I was coaching did that I'd send I'd eject him from the game before the refs even threw the flag. All class Mike Tomlin didn't say boo.
True. Tomlin was a bad example.
But my primary example was a guy like Shottenhiemer. And you added another good example with Dungy. In fact, Dungy came out of Marty's coaching tree in Kansas City. So did Bill Cowher and even Mike McCarthy of the Packers. Shottenhiemers coaching tree would not be involved in disgusting tactics such as these; but I can't say the same about the Parcells coaching tree. We've already seen Bellicheck with the Spygate and now Sean Payton with this newest scandel.
I disagree with you that Marty and Dungy could of won more games by playing dirty. Partly why their players put their heart and soul into the game is because they believed in Marty, and they believed in what Marty said. They played with heart and character. Marty always preached dignity and character. That's the kind of coach I would put myself on the line for and give my all.. not the scumbags over at New Orleans.
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And I'll say this, what James Harrison did to Colt McCoy was worse, light years worse, than targeting a guys bad ACL. A completely defenseless QB with no chance of attempting to run and a clear pass thrown and Harrison went helmet to helmet like a truck. If a guy on my team that I was coaching did that I'd send I'd eject him from the game before the refs even threw the flag. All class Mike Tomlin didn't say boo.
True. Tomlin was a bad example.
But my primary example was a guy like Shottenhiemer. And you added another good example with Dungy. In fact, Dungy came out of Marty's coaching tree in Kansas City. So did Bill Cowher and even Mike McCarthy of the Packers. Shottenhiemers coaching tree would not be involved in disgusting tactics such as these; but I can't say the same about the Parcells coaching tree. We've already seen Bellicheck with the Spygate and now Sean Payton with this newest scandel.
I disagree with you that Marty and Dungy could of won more games by playing dirty. Partly why their players put their heart and soul into the game is because they believed in Marty, and they believed in what Marty said. They played with heart and character. Marty always preached dignity and character. That's the kind of coach I would put myself on the line for and give my all.. not the scumbags over at New Orleans.
I agree to an extent, but the results speak for themselves. Historically the teams that go for the kill do better in regards to winning it all. Most of the best defensive players in NFL history were dirty players.
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I agree to an extent, but the results speak for themselves. Historically the teams that go for the kill do better in regards to winning it all. Most of the best defensive players in NFL history were dirty players.
hmmm.. it's hard to say. I just grew up watching Marty coach football here in KC throughout the 90's. This type of thing disgusts me really.
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I agree to an extent, but the results speak for themselves. Historically the teams that go for the kill do better in regards to winning it all. Most of the best defensive players in NFL history were dirty players.
hmmm.. it's hard to say. I just grew up watching Marty coach football here in KC throughout the 90's. This type of thing disgusts me really.
Just look at where the rankings of the defensive players in all the top 100 lists. The only real "nice guy" that gets up there is Reggie White. The rest is usually anyone from Ray Nitschke to Joe Greene, to Jack Lambert, to Dick Butkus. And Lawrence Taylor gets top billing most of the time. These guys were animals, and never would have lasted a Tony Dungy interview.
Now personally I may not be fond of the over heated styles of some coaches, but playing Marty-ball in big games usually doesn't work me. My philosphy with dealing with highpowered offenses is sometimes it's better to take a chance at a big play and give up a TD in 1 minute rather than make sure the big play doesn't happen and give up a TD in 9 minutes.
Marty-Ball should get more credit for "The Drive" than Elway should have ever gotten. You have a team down by 7 you manage to unthinkably get a kick-off to land at the 2 yard line, you have the weather and a rowdy bunch of of a mob in the stands blaring, you don't play it safe. You go for the throat. Look at the first play, Elway us just sitting there in the endzone in the pocket and you'd think they were only rushing 3, I'm pretty sure it was 4 but it should have been 6 or 7. two blitzers at least; one off the corner on the blind side and one more up the middle with a second delayed blitz option up the middle if need be. Even if you don't get the sack you make Elway feel the haste. I don't think he was ever under any real pressure. That one sack looks ore like Elway getting careless after getting too comfortable.
No chance in hell does Elway get off The Drive against Parcells Giants, and the next game where they took a thrashing by them he never even came close.
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It's out of proportion. All he basically told his players was hit the big names harder. Which makes sense because the big names are only big names because they make big plays. So hitting them harder, makes it harder for them to stay up & keep going. It's just some psychological shit for his defense. "Kill Crabtree" so this way Crabtree can't break a tackle, be the game changer he is & change the momentum of the game with an 80 yard play.
You with me?
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It's out of proportion. All he basically told his players was hit the big names harder. Which makes sense because the big names are only big names because they make big plays. So hitting them harder, makes it harder for them to stay up & keep going. It's just some psychological shit for his defense. "Kill Crabtree" so this way Crabtree can't break a tackle, be the game changer he is & change the momentum of the game with an 80 yard play.
You with me?
It's already been proven this is is false and they targeted specific body parts.
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It's out of proportion. All he basically told his players was hit the big names harder. Which makes sense because the big names are only big names because they make big plays. So hitting them harder, makes it harder for them to stay up & keep going. It's just some psychological shit for his defense. "Kill Crabtree" so this way Crabtree can't break a tackle, be the game changer he is & change the momentum of the game with an 80 yard play.
You with me?
It's already been proven this is is false and they targeted specific body parts.
They should ask hockey coaches what they think. Under the same standards they'd all be suspended.
In Canada there was this huge series called the Summit Series between Canada and the USSR in the 70s. The Canadians thought that it was about the Russian amateur hockey players wanting to learn how to play hockey at an elite level, but after getting blown out in the first game the Canadians realized there was a real battle ahead of them. Mid way through the series with the USSR looking likely to win it all the Canadian coached instructed a player to take out the USSR's best players ankle, and with a two handed baseball swing of the stick from behind the guy was taken out of the series and canada went on to win the whole thing.
And this whole joke of an event is seen as one of the great triumphs in Canadian hockey.
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That was in the seventies. If this happened on hockey now it would be a huge story and their would be harsh consequences.Does it happen? Most likely. Just don't get caught doing it.
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It's out of proportion. All he basically told his players was hit the big names harder. Which makes sense because the big names are only big names because they make big plays. So hitting them harder, makes it harder for them to stay up & keep going. It's just some psychological shit for his defense. "Kill Crabtree" so this way Crabtree can't break a tackle, be the game changer he is & change the momentum of the game with an 80 yard play.
You with me?
It's already been proven this is is false and they targeted specific body parts.
Again, nothing wrong with that if it's not an illegal hit. James Harrison in the last three years has been fined more than the entire Saints organization for illegal hits.
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Except they offered money to intentionally injure players. That's wrong. It's one thing for a player who plays with an edge to act on his own accord, its another to offer money to intentionally injure a player in specific areas.Those players like Harrison aren't going to change because it's who they are. But when you offer money to injure players you're creating an environment to create more players like Harrison.
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That was in the seventies. If this happened on hockey now it would be a huge story and their would be harsh consequences.Does it happen? Most likely. Just don't get caught doing it.
I'm just saying, in hockey it's way more widespread that it goes on like that, and when a stick is involved it's even worse and more easy to notice. There are situations where baseball swings are seen as too for, like to the head, but if news broke that a top NHL coach instructed a goon to take out the other teams top players injured ankle there would be no phony shocked responses by most of the NHL media experts.
There'd be fines and suspensions and the league would go overboard with it, but when I see Steve Maruicci and a lot like him saying they were sick to his stomach, that's ridiculous. Most NHL equivalents of Mooch would be like "yeah that's what happens in the NHL".
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Oh I definitely agree there. Hockey is a pretty brutal sport, and it's not sugar coated.
But the NHL isn't nearly as big as the NFL. They have to play up the whole I'm disgusted and spammed angle for the media.